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Hillary Clinton, Media Darling?

That's what AmericaBlog says. Bill Cinton was too I guess.

As readers of this blog know, I thought Obama the better choice to be the nominee BECAUSE he was a Media Darling and because the Media hated Bill and Hillary Clinton.

I believe events have borne out my 2007 assessment, certainly as to who would be the Media's darling and demon. I respectfully disagree with AmericaBlog's assessment.

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    Media Darling (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:01:57 PM EST
    Only if you want to assume that there was some sort of BDSM relationship between HRC and the media with the MSM as Dominant. However, in order for that to be valid, the situation would have had to be consenual. I'm 100% certain that was not the case.

    What planet do these people live on again?

    Hillary is the People's Darling, as was Bill. (5.00 / 5) (#10)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:07:23 PM EST
    The more the media hate on the Clintons, the more people love them.

    That's a helluva lot better than being Media Darling for a Day.

    Parent

    Agreed (5.00 / 5) (#22)
    by Prabhata on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:13:36 PM EST
    Hillary's amazing wins showed me that the voters did not pay attention to the media.  Those who hated Hillary got validation, but those who were open to her campaign and found her policies great, voted for her.  One sees the opposite with Obama.  Despite the love affair the media had with Obama, the goodwill did not translate into votes where it mattered, the white working class and the Hispanics.

    Parent
    Why (none / 0) (#63)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:23:48 PM EST
    Do black and/or educated votes count less than white working class/Hispanic ones?

    Parent
    Who does the Democrat always win? (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:24:40 PM EST
    And who does he have to struggle for?

    Parent
    And they always will be (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:05 PM EST
    Bill left the White House in 'disgrace' with a 65% approval rating. I don't know what Hillary's actual approval rating is but the 18 M voters who supported her (and who continue to support her) and the groundswell of appreciation for her coupled with the ignoring of the insanity of the Blogger Boyz and the MSM is pretty impressive in my book.

    I'd say it was Media Darling for a Primary Season (if only it had been for ONE DAY!). We'll see how long before the kid gloves come off and the WORM turns for the One Some Deluded People Have Been Waiting For.

    Parent

    I was thinking about this today (5.00 / 2) (#208)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:22:54 PM EST
    I believe, since the 2000 election, the USA has been trying to show Banana Republics everywhere how to become Top Banana.  

    Our election process is for the birds!!  It doesn't seem very Democratic and it doesn't seem very fair at times.  I don't know where this country went wrong.  

    Parent

    We went wrong (5.00 / 2) (#214)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:27:14 PM EST
    by not impeaching Richard Nixon. And then voting in Ronald Reagan who was another candidate that was not vetted or challenged. And then the Dems in Congress not bothering to push re: Iran Contra. And then enabling Bush I. And allowing Reagan to bust unions, and the media to not have to deal with pesky things like anti-trust laws so they were bought out by mega-umbrella corporations. And allowing companies to outsource. And continuing the dependence on foreign oil instead of alternate energies. And backing the trucking industry vs. rail for cargo.

    And many many other reasons.

    Parent

    If they think he's (none / 0) (#146)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:53:29 PM EST
    raising more cash and their support could cement his win, they will stay with him for a long time.  mCacin could disrupt it with Liberman as VP though.    Joe would be a media problem for Obama.

    Parent
    I don't see (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:56:10 PM EST
    Lieberman being anyone's VP ever again. Sorry but he's a joke to both people on the Right and the Left, even if he's McCain's closest friend and ally.

    Parent
    Evidence: the Draft Hillary movement (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:20:58 PM EST
    and here are the numbers -- in a matter of minutes -- in the poll on Lou Dobbs' site:

    Do you believe Senator Hillary Clinton should run as an Independent candidate for President?

    Yes     58%     7714
    No     42%     5511

    Total Votes: 13225


    How is that unity thang going?  Is Obama ready to do it on Day One?

    Parent
    An internet poll? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:23:09 PM EST
    Meh.

    Parent
    Sure. It says it's not scientific (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:12 PM EST
    but then, a lot of the polls this year don't seem to be doing that well.

    We'll see in November who says "meh."

    Parent

    Obama has clear signs of weakness (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:59 PM EST
    but an internet poll is not one of them.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#201)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:20:14 PM EST
    Keep in mind the people this is tracking aren't big internetters.  It might be wrong but not in the direction one would hope.

    On the other hand it's too soon and is tracking initial resentment.     Be interesting to see it done next week.

    Either that or its the 10 of us on TL all day voting and clearing our cache as often as we can.

    Parent

    Gee, my 19 year old son says meh, (none / 0) (#198)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:18:45 PM EST
    so, fortunately, I know what it means.

    Parent
    I guess (none / 0) (#55)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:22:20 PM EST
    more people are channeling the PUMA than CampObama would like to admit.

    Parent
    Evidence: the Chaos movement is still in force (none / 0) (#182)
    by Newt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:10:12 PM EST
    I got emails from my Republican lists to go to the Lou Dobbs site and vote for Hillary to run as an Independent.  I'm still convinced that a big portion of those who voted for Hillary in the past few months will not vote for ANY Democrat in November, and had no intention of voting for Hillary had she become our nominee.  (Based on my informal tracking of right wing associates and mailing lists I monitor.)

    Parent
    Your Point??? (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by michitucky on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:29:15 PM EST
    I received the same email from a friend who is a Taylor Marsh poster......

    Why do you continue to disrespect the millions of Dems who voted for Senator Clinton???

    Parent

    That may be, but perception is (none / 0) (#202)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:20:48 PM EST
    everything to the millions who watch Dobbs. Of course, an independent run will split the dem vote and probably elect McCain, like Nadarites in 2000.

    Parent
    Medea Dahling. (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:31:48 PM EST
    That's what she was, that Clinton person, Medea Dahling.

    Parent
    Hey (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:36:21 PM EST
    I've always been a fan of Medea's. She got a bum rap considering everything that was done to her.

    Parent
    Fratricidal apostate. (none / 0) (#154)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:56:12 PM EST
    Salo, so what's not to love? (none / 0) (#179)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:08:14 PM EST
    I think in the aftermath (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:43:10 PM EST
    of all of this we're going to have our own "Princess Di". I think when Obama loses in November, instead of its being Hillary's fault that he lost, it's going to be his fault that we were deprived of an "historic Presidency".

    Parent
    Wholeheartedly agree (none / 0) (#211)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:24:44 PM EST
    and those who supported the media darling will be seen as shallow oracles.

    Parent
    When the media turns towards McCain... (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by kredwyn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:04:07 PM EST
    It will be easier for them to point out that the media never loved Obama in the first place...they were always fans of Billary.

    Course they will neglect to remember all of the Sunday morning genuflecting orgies that almost coulda happened...if only they'd been able to rent a  hotel room...

    Something Ive been wondering... (none / 0) (#39)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:18:28 PM EST
    because I cant remember why it turned out the way it did, but if Mcsame is a media darling, how did he lose the 2000 primary?  Dont get me wrong, I know the media likes him, but an absolute worship of him seems odd considering he lost.  Or is his media status only within the last 7 years?

    Parent
    He wasn't enough of a good old boy for the (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:22:33 PM EST
    MEDIA.  He wasn't someone to go out and have a beer with, why do you think McCain is having reporters over for Bar-b-qs?

    Parent
    Ok... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:31 PM EST
    so hes only attained this status within the last 7 years?  I honestly cant remember what the republican primary was like in 2000 or how mcsame was perceived.  

    And sorry if this is way OT.

    Parent

    For various reasons, (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Shawn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:33:48 PM EST
    the media has far less influence with the GOP base than it does with the Democratic base. In fact, McCain's media love probably made conservatives even more skeptical of him. Plus, the conservative media, which is all a lot of Republicans listen to, was pretty anti-McCain/pro-Bush, with a few exceptions.

    Parent
    The public dislikes Clinton bashing. (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:40:32 PM EST
    Maybe the public dislikes Clinton-bashing because the bashing is so blatantly unfounded and unfair; with Hillary as with Bill. The harder the bashing the stronger the public back-lash.

    Media Matters: Clinton's Gallup approval ratings actually hit the high for his presidency during the Lewinsky matter, reaching 73 percent at the time of his December 19, 1998, impeachment by the House of Representatives (in a poll taken December 19-20, 1998) and reaching another relative peak of 70 percent in a February 9, 1999, poll, taken during Clinton's trial in the Senate.

    Don't expect the same public recoil when the media goes ape-s*it on Obama. There will only be a backlash against the coverage if it is self-evidentlyy unfair and unfounded.

    Parent

    One-word answer: Rove. (4.75 / 4) (#69)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:24:45 PM EST
    Not to be confused with Obama's version: Axelrove.

    Parent
    And it all goes back to South Carolina (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:30:12 PM EST
    He was Swiftboated with a smear campaign by Bush. It was pretty ugly really. After that, no contest. I actually felt sorry for what Rove did to him.

    Parent
    Did you ever see the GWB / McCain debate? (none / 0) (#188)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:12:32 PM EST
    McCain called out GWB on on using indefensible and disgusting Rove dirty tricks and I can't remember now whether it was that war hero McCain was a traitor for being a POW, or that the whisper campaign that McCain was the father of an "illegitimate" black baby because the McCains' adopted child was from Bangladesh.

    GWB said in an sheepish aw-shucks half whine that it was just politics. I'll never forget how genuinely hurt McCain was.

    Random thought: how Repugnant is it that Rove's dirty trick repertoire is so vast and soooooo dirty that I can't remmeber precisely wich rotten one McCain was reacting to? Rove's compilation would skeeve the most disgusting politicians of any era and I'm including Renaissance era Venice.

    (BTD if you're reading, this was what I meant about McCain's Wabi Sabi and how the flaws from his bad speaking style working in his favor but Obama's slickness play against him. Note that I remember a moment from a Repug primary debate: that's an innate quality McCain has.)

    Parent

    It will be interesting (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:42:28 PM EST
    to see -- not if -- but HOW Obama and Axelrove accuse McCain of racism, given that McCain has an adopted Bangladeshi child.

    I'm sure they'll find a creative way.

    Parent

    Race card (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by mmc9431 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:56:37 PM EST
    I don't think they'll attempt the race card in the GE They used that to pry the AA away from the Clinton's. McCain hasn't got any of their support to worry about.

    Parent
    Actually they used the race card for white votes (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by ineedalife on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:04:53 PM EST
    The AA's were solid but whenever they had to keep the white, guilt-trip, crowd in line they would accuse the Clinton's of using racist dog whistles. They may use it in the general to get out their vote, not to hurt McCain's vote.

    Parent
    Obamas camp may not -- but they (5.00 / 6) (#184)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:10:44 PM EST
    sanctioned others to do so, and I've seen this before.  It's a genie that doesn't just go back in the bottle.  But those attacked can make it redound on Obama, just the same.  And the important thing to remember, over and over, is that Republicans aren't consumed by liberal guilt.  They don't care about that, and they are very savvy to being gamed by it.

    Parent
    Right (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:13:36 PM EST
    The Left has been painting the Republicans as racists for decades - not always without cause, of course.  Most Republicans don't give a flip.

    Parent
    Their savvy... (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:15:44 PM EST
    hasnt saved them in most any election this year.  Their liberal-evil shtick isnt working because bush has killed their namebrand.  If Obama wins it will be because the republicans got fired, not because people like Obama.

    Parent
    That's for sure, since even a Dem (none / 0) (#197)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:17:43 PM EST
    running for Congress had to run away from Obama but fast, taking out ads to say he never had met the Dem front-runner.  The Republicans don't have to run from McCain, and that's who's running now. . . .

    Parent
    No, but... (none / 0) (#204)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:21:40 PM EST
    mcsame will have to run from bush while still be his cheerleader.  A seemingly impossible task, and since hes already sold his soul to the devil by being republican he doesnt have any where else to turn for a miracle.

    Parent
    BO's standing in unexploded cluster bomblets (5.00 / 3) (#215)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:27:19 PM EST
    ... that he threw himself by accusing Clinton and her supporters of racism at every turn; whether overtly or through an underling to appear above the fray, in the style of the Rethuggernaut.

    How I hated that wall to wall smirk on Bush when he vowed to personally hunt down the miscreant who leaked that Plame info, er, right under his very nose. The media didn't even question the paradox that in a time of nat'l security so feckin' delicate that Prez Gladys Kravitz himself had to spy on citizens without warrant, the White House could be this porous (and clueless)

    Gaaagh ... must stop ... head ... exploding.

    Parent

    They may not have the AAs (none / 0) (#158)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:59:16 PM EST
    to support mcsame, but racism generally doesnt go over to well with moderates.  So they may not hammer it a lot, if they see an opportunity, theyll take it.

    Parent
    I am an Idenpendent and moderate. If the Obama (5.00 / 2) (#174)
    by FLVoter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:06:06 PM EST
    Camp tries using the "race card" again it will have no effect on me.  Remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?

    Parent
    You may be both of those things... (3.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:08:21 PM EST
    but you dont speak for all who fall into that category.

    Parent
    Guess what my vote does count and my opinion (none / 0) (#189)
    by FLVoter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:12:33 PM EST
    counts just as much as yours.  Crying wolf too often as Camp Obama has diminishes its effect.

    Parent
    Of course your vote counts... (none / 0) (#199)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:18:52 PM EST
    My point is that anecdotal evidence is questionable at best.

    Parent
    As is yours. (none / 0) (#200)
    by FLVoter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:20:04 PM EST
    Its not anecdotal... (none / 0) (#210)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:23:19 PM EST
    to say moderates generally dont like racism.

    Parent
    Saying that they will be swayed by it is just your (none / 0) (#212)
    by FLVoter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:25:05 PM EST
    Opinion and nothing more. I say over playing it is detrimental and will backfire.

    Parent
    So youre saying... (none / 0) (#216)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:27:31 PM EST
    moderates are ok with voting for someone they perceive as a racist?  Id say mcsame is banking they wont since his surrogates -- bad speller :P -- will be washing the news with Rev wright 24/7.

    Parent
    You really do not get it. Continually accusing (5.00 / 1) (#225)
    by FLVoter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:35:40 PM EST
    people of racism will not work, especially if you want to get their vote.  Just look how well that worked for him in the primary.  By your way of thinking, he should have won the primary by a landslide since the "racist" accusations were used so often, but that was not the case.  Racism should not be used as a tool to get votes and should only be called attention to when it actually occurs, otherwise it diminishes the importance of recognizing it and working towards correcting it.

    Parent
    Probably... (none / 0) (#142)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:51:41 PM EST
    what theyll do is accuse his serogates of racism since there are a fair amount of racist conservatives.

    And before you say that serogates arent mcsame himself and wont stick as well, remember how well it worked with Ferraro.

    Parent

    And the Republican (5.00 / 3) (#160)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:59:25 PM EST
    surrogates will brush it off, have a good laugh and continue to get their base to listen. The Republicans have never worries about being politically correct, don't need the African American vote to win and don't give a toss for the sensitivities of a bunch of whiny white liberals steeped in their own self-loathing and guilt.

    I wouldn't discount Geri Ferraro that easily. She's still standing. She now works for FOX, she still has political capitol and she still has a voice. Not to mention the fact that there was nothing she said that was even remotely wrong. (see above for who it offended and how little they matter in the long term)

    Parent

    Ferraro already is having her fun (5.00 / 6) (#178)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:08:10 PM EST
    on Fox, and it will keep getting better.  It's like crossing swords with Carmela Soprano.  Ferraro comes from her own political machine -- and is so much smarter.

    I think that Obama's people had the mistaken impressions that Ferraro was just another of us useless old white women -- and they also didn't realize that she is a hero in women's history, a name known even to those who know little more.  

    So make it like crossing swords with a cross between Carmela Soprano and Susan B. Anthony -- but with a national forum already to reach millions.  Pop the popcorn!

    Parent

    I never said... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:10:24 PM EST
    Ferraro was destroyed by Obamas tactics.  My point is that what they did helped paint HRC as a racist.

    Parent
    Im not talking about... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:05:20 PM EST
    the republican base.  Im talking about moderates who do care about racism.

    Parent
    You lose the moderates (5.00 / 3) (#195)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:16:55 PM EST
    when you continue to paint THEM as racists when they are not. That sort of manipulation only goes so far. As I said, the portion of whiny white liberals who wallow in their own guilt and self-loathing will fall for it every time. In fact, they'll jump on that bandwagon first just to PROVE how not-racist they are. However, moderates get pretty tired of having mud flung at them for venturing an opinion. They tend to shut it out and ignore it because that kind of tactic only works once.

    You apparently have no idea how angry most moderates are about being branded 'racist' just because they don't like Obama for other reasons (most of them practical). If anything, it makes them a lot more stubborn and adverse to Unity.

    Parent

    Yikes, who are you and how did you (none / 0) (#219)
    by Cream City on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:30:18 PM EST
    just look into my moderate heart and mind?  Well put.  And I can be as stubborn as a mule -- but they won't know it 'til backs are turned and I kick. :-)

    Parent
    Im speaking... (none / 0) (#220)
    by Thanin on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:30:38 PM EST
    to the large % of undecides who are moderates.  And both camps are going to play the race card.  Obama the black and mcsame rev. wright.

    Parent
    I distinctly recall David Brooks slipping the shiv (none / 0) (#166)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:03:11 PM EST
    into McCain's ribs one evening on NPR's wrapup analysis, during the primaries. He said in that wondrously sincere tone he uses to do his best bashing that McCain was a mile wide and an inch deep, that he new lots of things about lots, but had not indepth knowledge of issues. That was why Bobo favored Bush. (Ya gotta laugh!) I've looked for this statement but haven't found it; maybe someone with access to Lexis-Nexis could do so.

    But I realized then how deftly he filets his political opponents.

    At the time, I must confess, I still took his opinions with some degree of belief. Then I noted how he could turn on a dime; this year McCain is a fine thinker, etc., iirc.

    Parent

    I must proofread: New is knew; McCain's knowledge (none / 0) (#169)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:04:53 PM EST
    was a mile wide and an inch deep. Eeeeek!

    Parent
    Indeed (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:04:38 PM EST
    At Americcablog, it's opposite world.

    he won't be their darling (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Turkana on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:04:51 PM EST
    for much longer...

    Frankly, I really hope that's wrong (none / 0) (#7)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:05:39 PM EST
    but I strongly suspect it's right.

    Parent
    there have already been hints (5.00 / 5) (#13)
    by Turkana on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:07:52 PM EST
    but, as noted at tlc, i'm particularly curious to see what happens at nbc/msnbc. obama may be a darling, but mccain's a saint!

    Parent
    Turkana, can you tell me where the media (none / 0) (#228)
    by hairspray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:44:41 PM EST
    animus comes from?  I read "The Hunting of the President" by Lyons and Conasen who explain its origin as coming from the Washington elite (Quinn, Bradley, et al), but that version seemed so petty.  Surely there was more to it than that.  Or was that all that it was?

    Parent
    You are both wrong (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:08:43 PM EST
    Here is the real question, has the Media OVERDONE it? Have they been too obvious?

    Can McCain, the former Media Darling, stoke up Media resentment on the right again?

    Parent

    Frankly (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:49 PM EST
    I think the media "darling" status has actually hurt Obama. They love him because he's a "first" not because of his accomplishments or anything else. This is also why he does poorly with working class voters and is unlikely to improve his numbers or even get Kerry's numbers in the fall imo. It has created massive resentment against him from all quarters which people are going to take out at the voting booth.

    The right will always buy into the media resentment thing. We should start using it just like the GOP does.

    Parent

    Ga6th, precisely... (5.00 / 3) (#167)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:03:29 PM EST
    *
    People react against blatant media unfairness, whether it comes in the form of undeserved deification (Obama), or undeserved vilification (Hillary.

    Parent
    conspiratorially (5.00 / 5) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:50 PM EST
    you could imagine that they hyped him so much in the primary, other than the goal of defeating the Clintons, so they could tear him apart in the general in the name of "balance".
    it will be interesting to see how long the l'affaire de Obama lasts.

    Parent
    You'd have thought that (5.00 / 5) (#42)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:18:51 PM EST
    given the MSM gave us GW Bush and then The War On Whatever, maybe, just maybe, people might've been a bit wary when those same invaluable and infalliable (erm, right) fonts of wisdom foisted BO upon them too. But no...

    Fool me once, shame on me
    Fool me twice, er, uh, won't get fooled again.

    Except of course, there was some serious fleecing going on.

    Parent

    the good (and ironic) news (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:25:02 PM EST
    is that those low information voters they so love to make fun of are still just as wary of the media as they once said they were.


    Parent
    True enough (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:29:46 PM EST
    Sadly, it's only the low-information voters. Even the supposedly intelligent friends of mine who normally pay attention have been sipping Kool-Aid lately and bought into the whole RFK memo. I can't even talk to them because I'm that angry about it.

    Parent
    I have some of those friends too (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:34:14 PM EST
    but elections are not won or lost in those demographics.  they are won and lost in the middle of the country and those people are angry as hell.
    at the DNC and at the media for foisting this on us.


    Parent
    presidential elections (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:34:35 PM EST
    I should say

    Parent
    I know what you meant (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:39:05 PM EST
    See, that's the thing. I know some of those low-information voters in Upstate NY and Western MA and they see through the smoke and mirrors.

    Sadly, it's the so-called liberals who are treating me like a social pariah now for not worshipping the Precious and drinking the Kool-Aid. You know I'm pretty sure I heard that "get over it" song before...maybe around December 2000?

    Parent

    quicker than a gnat's chuff. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:34:37 PM EST
    If Lieberman is Mccain's VP the Broderatti will turn on Obama so hard.  So hard.

    Parent
    And then they'll cry, (none / 0) (#136)
    by zfran on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:47:59 PM EST
    we should have vetted him!

    Parent
    BTD... (none / 0) (#16)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:10:37 PM EST
    what do you mean?

    Do you mean that when they switch to McCain the game will be up, because they were so obviously in favor of Obama before?

    Parent

    They ain't switching (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:28 PM EST
    Well watching the local (CBS 3- Philly) just (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:19:39 PM EST
    ran a piece on Obamas' problems with voters in the area and how nice and stately McCain is.

    Parent
    I really am mystified (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:22:41 PM EST
    by BTD's opinion on this matter.

    Never has a Democrat been a media darling. Obama will turn out no differently.

    I'm out. Peace everyone!

    Parent

    Who's reading the news there now (none / 0) (#53)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:21:45 PM EST
    after the recent unpleasantness?

    Parent
    Sorry to take so long to answer, (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:46:36 PM EST
    it's Susan Barnett (jessica Savitch type) with rotating Co-anchors.  And to keep on topic - While we are focusing on the MSM,  local news media will also help frame the darling issue in who they interview in the local markets.

    Parent
    Agree with BTD (1.00 / 1) (#226)
    by 1jane on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:38:39 PM EST
    MSM ate a load of crap served to them by Bush and his gang on a fancy platter for nearly 8 years. There is deep resentment among the press and self loathing because they bought the spin. Throw in the ability to fact check nearly every syllable ever uttered by McCain over the years and you'll see McCain playing defense along with his continual gaffes. Obama's been vetted about as hard as any campaign could vet by the crack snoops working for the Hillary campaign. The most McCain can hope for are missteps by the Obama campaign. Hardcore Hillary supporters in my county are rejoining the fight to defeat John McCain. The long goodbye continues for the dwindling pool of hardcore Hillary supporters. The rest  of the Dems are concerned about our country and fixing all the broken pieces Bush left behind.


    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#35)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:45 PM EST
    We'll see.

    Parent
    MSNBC aint (none / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:17:05 PM EST
    not so sure about the rest.  I think they have learned some valuable lessons watching MSNBC become a punchline.

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:10:48 PM EST
    That resentment almost put Hillary over the top. . .

    If they tone down just a little bit, it will be good.

    Parent

    Yep, BTD, you're right again.... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:17:58 PM EST
    ...McCain won't be the media darling, and that's going to work out very well for him among Republicans.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by dk on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:00 PM EST
    he's "new," his campaign is all about marketing that dovetails well with media marketing, he's Broderistic, and he assuages the liberal white guilt of the 1960s generation who now control the media.  He's their dream...until the next new thing comes along, of course.

    Parent
    again (none / 0) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:32:24 PM EST
    the good news is the only segment of the population the voting public distrusts more than politicians is the media.
    in the end I dont think it matters what they say.
    the media did not defeat Hillary.  sloppy preparation did.

    Parent
    Doesn't have to stoke resentment (none / 0) (#222)
    by RalphB on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:33:15 PM EST
    of media on the right, duh!  that's not gone away.  Resentment is more important for capturing moderates.

    Parent
    I must have been checking the wrong (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by PssttCmere08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:06:16 PM EST
    media...I have been bamboozled...uh huh, yeah right.

    Americablog hates Hillary more than the media (5.00 / 8) (#9)
    by Prabhata on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:06:19 PM EST
    That's why Aravosis believe the media liked Hillary.

    site rules prevent me (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:21:40 PM EST
    from saying what I think about Aravosis (sounds like mouthwash doesnt it?) and his site.  but I will say this,

    Briar patch sexism  

    conjures some ugly racial undertones that I wont go into.

    Parent

    Lord, (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by madamab on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:07:50 PM EST
    and to think I thought I was part of the "reality-based community" when I used to read Aravosis!

    New goal post: (5.00 / 8) (#18)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:10:54 PM EST
    There may have been some sexism during this campaign, but it wasn't significant and it didn't impact the race (name a state in which sexism may have hurt Hillary's vote).


    Better new goalpost (5.00 / 11) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:14:30 PM EST
    Aravosis in the comments:

    Except some of the most vicious criticism is coming from fellow women. So are they sexist too?

    So when Fox trots out African Americans to criticize Obama for supposedly playing the race card, that is the final word on the subject?

    What a man, what a man.

    Parent

    He doth protest too much (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:40 PM EST
    If I were at a different blog (5.00 / 6) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:18:38 PM EST
    I would be citing Donnie McClurkin's pronouncements on being gay to him. McClurkin is/was gay, does that mean he is not capable of making homophobic remarks?

    Parent
    Indeed, and he knows this (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:20:24 PM EST
    You know, if you check his archives, he was loud and right about that issue. Then something happened.

    Parent
    ALL the liberal blogs were! (5.00 / 3) (#81)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:27:29 PM EST
    One, in particular, was highly critical of his Social Security rhetoric.

    Yes, then something happened.  Was it that John Edwards dropped out, leaving two candidates?

    Hmmmm.

    Parent

    What a mighty fine man.... (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:19:53 PM EST
    ...I just had to finish that off for you.

    Parent
    well that's the problem with sexism (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:37:21 PM EST
    and feminism in general. Quite  alot of women get jealous around high achievers or resent supersuccesful women generally.

    Parent
    Yeah, it's like claiming (none / 0) (#176)
    by frankly0 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:06:54 PM EST
    that Republicans never encourage or exploit racism because Clarence Thomas supports them.

    Parent
    You miss the point (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Prabhata on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:55 PM EST
    It's not that sexism hurt her.  I just made a comment that the voters who mattered, those who were willing to listen to her, voted for her.  But that's not to say that all the sexist remarks didn't happen.

    Parent
    Sexism (5.00 / 5) (#65)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:24:09 PM EST
    One of the ways that sexism reared its' disgusting head in this campaign was the endless focus on trivia with respect to Hillary Clinton.

    The media spent seemingly endless days discussing her laugh, her clothing, and her cleavage.

    They spent relatively little (and I'm being generous) time in talking about the relative merits of her health plan, for example.

    Saint Obama, who posed for GQ, never had to answer any questions about his haberdashery.

    Parent

    Well, it's probably true (none / 0) (#34)
    by lilburro on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:25 PM EST
    that his sexism didn't impact the race...

    Parent
    Many thought she was inevitable.. (5.00 / 7) (#20)
    by dianem on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:12:06 PM EST
    ..that doesn't mean that they were happy about it. They attacked whenever possible, and there were plenty of opportunities.

    I read the first comment, as well. It amazes me how many so-called "feminists" (although this one calls "feminism" an outdated term, after claiming to be one for the 70's - because she didn't wear a bra and supported the Children's Defense Fund). are offended because some women are opposed to the sexism in this campaign and claim that they are different from those bitter old feminists who supported Clinton simply because she was a woman. I would think that a true feminist would recognize that women come in different sizes and shapes and with different ideas, and that it is perfectly acceptable to support a woman for President, not because she is a woman, but because she is truly the best qualified candidate.

    The idea seems to be: It's okay to trash Clinton using sexist rhetoric because she is Clinton, and true feminists would recognize that she is Clinton and doesn't deserve our support.

    NPR ran opinion piece by woman from Independent (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:11:50 PM EST
    Women's Forum (id'd as conservative afterwards, which is not always done by NPR, iirc) who attacked and belittled Hillary for not knowing when to leave the primary, mentioned all those Dems who want her gone, even her own supporters (what happened to Charlie Rangel between 10:00am on Wednesday when he had only good things to say about Hillary and later in the day? Anyone know?), mentioning Rangel by name and quote. It was nothing but a battering hit piece.

    According the IWF woman, there was no sexism and if there was it was all beneficial for Hillary. Honest. (Where's the vomitorium?)

    Oh, well. Soon to be over...unless Dems wise up by the convention....

    Parent

    IWF...... (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by michitucky on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:26:21 PM EST
    Michelle Bernard is President of Independent Women's Forum.  Same Michelle Bernard who appeared almost daily on MSNBC to trash Hillary Clinton.

    Parent
    If by "media darling" you mean (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:31 PM EST
    "next media punching bag', then yes I agree with you.  The media only wants targets to set their sights on, not deal with issues.  After all how many people read scandal mags for the issues?

    I love how people when making this claim... (5.00 / 7) (#33)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:16:12 PM EST
    ...always conveniently overlook the fact that when the media was "trumpeting" Hillary as the inevitable Democratic nominee, they didn't mean it as a compliment. It was their way of bashing the Democratic Party because back in those days their darling was Rudy Guiliani. They were taunting the Democrats whom they perceived as losers and saying "Is this the best you got?"

    But when they finally figured out that the country was not inclined to agree

    Difficult to fathom... (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:18:33 PM EST
    that you would support Obama BECAUSE he was a media darling.
    I just don't get it.
    They also got a kick out of Bush. They still do.

    The media's taste has never been mine.

    I have never considered Elvis to be the King of anything.


    Not everybody is logical. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Prabhata on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:22:11 PM EST
    Apparently BTD goes along with what the media chooses.  BTD is great, but I guess he figures the people cannot fight the media.  I disagree.  Hillary did a great job.  What doomed her was the DNC and a flawed political system in selecting the candidate with most support from the people.

    Parent
    Not everyone (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:24:04 PM EST
    has a clue or has read me on the subject and prefers to write stupid comments.

    Parent
    I'm not sure how its inaccurate (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:41:45 PM EST
    if you are basing a candidate choice on how the media treats that candidate then it follows that the media is choosing your candidate for you.

    What would I be missing here to make a different conclusion?

    Parent

    Excuse me? (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by standingup on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:37:32 PM EST
    I don't think I could count on the fingers of one hand where BTD has written posts where he agrees with the media.  He has been one the best and one of the few bloggers who have continued to be critical of the media.  People can and have been fighting the media on blogs for years.  The lack of media criticism on the part of other liberal blogs, mostly pro-Obama blogs, during this primary has been devastating to the efforts of many who worked to hold the media accountable for biased reporting.    

    Parent
    Really simple (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:30:18 PM EST
    BTD noted that Obama and HRC are nearly indistinguishable on policy, so he picked candidate who is more electable/more likely to have coattails/more likely to govern without constant smearing by the press. The Media Darling analysis clearly pointed to Obama given those criteria.

    Parent
    well no (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:43:02 PM EST
    BTD predicted an early disaster and a steep learning curve for Obama.   I think it's based on the justifiable fear that you need good press just to have a good shot at winning.  It's a very cynical argument really.   A respectable enough one (I like Cynicism)

    Parent
    Fully consistent with what I said afaict n/t (none / 0) (#139)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:50:26 PM EST
    I suggest you read the archives (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:24:35 PM EST
    of this site if you want to understand why.

    Parent
    Archives (none / 0) (#88)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:29:12 PM EST
    I would really like to read any articles that appear in your archives that would help me to understand what you wrote about supporting Obama because he was the media darling.

    Can you provide a few links or suggest how I might find the articles to which you refer?

    Parent

    It means he has a theoretical chance (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:41:05 PM EST
    because he gets good press.  All Dems are a little bit like a battered child regarding the media. We who have studied it FEAR it. It's not like BTD didn't modify his position to intelligently critique Obama.  Or provide a talking shop for Clinton supporters taht was respectful.

    BTD: One of the most objective obama fans i've seen.

    Although some of the praise for Clinton is jst a ploy to keep the Clinton people happy.

    Parent

    Obama may remain the media (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by pie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:22:28 PM EST
    darling, but the media will continue to wallow in the mud and point out all the juicy, irrelevant, "he said/he said" garbage that they're known for.  No smear will go unpublished, and if it hurts Obama, oh well.

    I'm torn (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:35 PM EST
    between commenting on the obvious stupidity of someone who is either lying or delusional and contributing to the idea that Americans let the media dictate such a decision even if what is being dictated is an unintentional backlash.


    Aravosis's hatred of (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by standingup on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:42 PM EST
    anything and everything Clinton leaves him with zero credibility on the subject.  

    I wonder if any of the liberal bloggers who have jumped the shark this primary will ever find the ability to look back at their writing with a critical eye to see how far removed they were from reality?  I think they abdicated any ground for criticizing the media for biased coverage in this election.

    Watch for it at Netroots Nation (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:30:51 PM EST
    Very true (none / 0) (#157)
    by standingup on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:59:01 PM EST
    but I won't be there to watch in person this year.  Another cause that started with good intentions that has gone the other direction too.

    Parent
    Shame on you (5.00 / 6) (#83)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:28:17 PM EST
    This is the lowest-hanging fruit yet!

    Thank you! (none / 0) (#148)
    by standingup on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:54:09 PM EST
    I doubt you meant it the way I took your comment but it made me laugh very hard.    

    Parent
    Meet me in Ohio! (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:55:08 PM EST
    (Sorry, but I'm going to miss that one).

    Parent
    Oh lord (5.00 / 3) (#161)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:01:33 PM EST
    Rest assured that I did NOT mean it that way.  Whoops.

    Parent
    I saw a study that says they got equal treatment (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by RonK Seattle on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:28:27 PM EST
    Amusing as it might be to see where their methodology went off the rails, life's too short to read stuff like that.

    Off the rails (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:36:08 PM EST
    I saw this too - they only counted actual news stories, not commentary. Lots of other things wrong too, that was just the most glaring.

    Just to confirm your resolve not to waste your time.

    Parent

    V. my daily howler link above n/t (none / 0) (#134)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:47:14 PM EST
    If we took up a collection, do you think (5.00 / 11) (#93)
    by Anne on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:31:04 PM EST
    we could buy Aravosis a clue or two?

    Good Lord - he seems to not understand that the media-driven "inevitablity" meme had nothing to do with Hillary's gender, and everything to do with making sure she was in the race so they could make it acceptable (media-acceptable, not human-acceptabe) to give voice to their hatred of all things Clinton.

    Does Aravosis (and the commenters whose Clinton hatred started to make me thing something had died in my computer so I could only read the first 4 or 5 comments) not understand that we could have dealt with garden-variety Clinton-hate - the kind that focused on her plans and policies and record - but that making it about her looks, her laugh, her pantsuits, her cleavage, making snide references to "the claws" and "periodically, when she is feeling down," proclaiming that she was only in the race because her husband ran around on her, that some women deserve the "b!tch" label, was where it landed in the sexism briar patch?

    Would Aravosis have called it racism if the sign had read "Shine My Shoes" at an Obama rally?

    Would Aravosis have called it racism if instead of a Hillary Nutcracker it had been an Obama Jockey?

    Would Aravosis have seen racism if instead of "Bros before Hos," the T-shirt had read "N-word Lover?"

    Would Aravosis have seem racism if David Shuster had talked about pimping out Michelle Obama?

    I'm sorry - I have little tolerance for people who are incapable even of putting the shoe on the other foot as a test of whether someting is appropriate or not, or who refuse to do so because they prefer to be able to justify ugly and divisive behavior or language.

    If there is any silver lining to be found in all of this, it might be that it is much easier for me to have seen the true - if ugly - character of a lot of people who apparently have little ability to practice the kind of liberal, progressive agenda they've been preaching.

    Wait, don't tell me: "no one" has fought harder against sexism than John Aravosis.

    Just kill me now.

    How (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by tek on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:34:48 PM EST
    sad that we should choose a presidential candidate based on whether or not the media idolize him/her.  The media idolize Brad Pitt, but I doubt he'd be a great president.  Bill Clinton certainly was not a media darling but he was the best president since Truman--warts and all.

    Four years from now we'll be reading that Obama really was one of Rezko's confederates.

    Hah (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by TheRealFrank on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:37:19 PM EST
    He must be confusing "love to hate" with "love". Or, more likely, he has been blinded by his Clinton hatred.

    Clinton Derangement Syndrom amongst lefty bloggers has been the most shocking thing about this primary. But, sadly, I'm used to it now, just like I'm used to it from the media. Meaning that I've stopped reading it. Is there a difference anymore between the lefty blogs and the media? Keith Olbermann perfectly embodies how the gap was bridged: the traditional media and the lefty blogs united in their irrational hatred for Clinton.

    As for darling status: it'll be interesting to see what the media does now. Obama was a media darling, although for the last couple of months some channels (but not MSNBC) have been a little harder on him. McCain still seems to be getting the easiest ride.


    Posted this at the tail end (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by Grace on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:40:25 PM EST
    of a thread but I thought it was worth repeating here (since it's about Hillary).  It was the quote of the day on that Liberal Rapture website:

    If only Hillary would give Obama one of her cajones, then they would both have two.

    James Carville

    Hysterical!  

    I woke up thinking Obama (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by masslib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:40:53 PM EST
    would win, but now I'm thinking McCain will.  He's the one Republican lot's of Democrats like and worse TRUST.  I think it's bad that the Dem's crowned someone who lost the last consecutive 4 months of the campaign.  It looks bad to the public.  The RBC ruling smells bad.  My mother, who doesn't follow politics, keeps saying "isn't this just like 2000 in Florida?"  and, "I don't understand, she was winning?"   I think the Hillary Democrats and (Hillary indies and repubs) no longer trust the media at all.  So Obama's status as media darling hurts him more and more and they relate to media attacks on McCain because of what they witnessed with Hill.  I don't know, he may pull this off.

    no way Obama can get 65 million votes (5.00 / 2) (#177)
    by ChuckieTomato on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:07:38 PM EST
    with all the states and demographic groups he dissed during the primary. Turnout will be higher. Bush got 62, Kerry 60, I think McCain will reach at least that pinnacle.

    Parent
    Objectivity (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:43:01 PM EST
    I am finally getting it that most people are incapable of it.

    Interesting... (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by masslib on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:56:06 PM EST
    Bob Johnson and Charlie Rangle echo BTD:

    Rangel said Obama and Clinton need each other -- it would help him pick up her supporters if she were on the Democratic ticket, and she "needs to maintain momentum" as a national and international leader.

    Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson told FOX News on Thursday that he is still plugging away for Clinton to be Obama's running mate. He has asked the Congressional Black Caucus to state publicly who they think Obama's best option is for a vice presidential running mate.

    "Hillary has part of the Democratic puzzle, Obama has part of the Democratic puzzle. I think the demographic pieces that she brings to his demographic voters gives us a certainty of winning the presidency. And that's the most important thing, and that's why I think the two should come together," he said.

    "This is Obama's decision, and if his political calculus says I can win without Hillary because I don't want her to help me govern, that's his decision, he's won that right as the nominee. But my position from looking at it and the politics of reality, I think why take the risk if you can win with Hillary?" Johnson added.


    Bob Johnson??? (5.00 / 2) (#162)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:01:38 PM EST
    Oh, that one.

    Parent
    Somerby's take is the MCM is leery of attacking (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by jawbone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:15:44 PM EST
    Obama, partly bcz of his race, partly bcz of his novelty and for their Narrative.  It was clear they would batter Hillary, no matter what. For that reason, Somerby has posited that Obama would be the better candidate--he's hoping the MCM will continue to treat him a better than most Dems are treated.

    We'll see.

    If the MCM is going to turn on him, when will it be? Prior to convention or after?  All will depend of what the C part of MCM thinks will be in their best interests. Is it time for a Dem to try to rein in the excesses of the Repubs? If so, they will treat Obama fairly--until he's in office, if it's anything like how they treated Bill Clinton.

    Jawbone, Matthews dissed BO on June 2nd. (none / 0) (#209)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:22:58 PM EST
    *
    Media Matters is already on it. See comment #38.

    Parent
    Pew Research (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:03:00 PM EST
    in their most recent in-depth analysis, McCain is getting the shaft, not HRC or BHO http://www.journalism.org/node/11266

    For those who care (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:07:32 PM EST
    See here for some reasons not to rely on that report.

    Parent
    Their reports (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:09:24 PM EST
    are consistently laughable.

    Parent
    than it should be pretty easy (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    for you to provide detailed arguments refuting the accuracy or legitimacy of the report. i look forward to reading it.

    Parent
    Ball's in your court to refute those reasons n/t (none / 0) (#31)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:57 PM EST
    I don't think so (none / 0) (#43)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:19:14 PM EST
    i stand by the more respected resource and the arguments made by the howler are vague, not comprehensive and the howler has a horse in the race.

    Parent
    You're pounding the table (none / 0) (#47)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:20:18 PM EST
    Have a nice day.

    Parent
    and rilke (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:19:43 PM EST
    rocks

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:20:31 PM EST
    If I cared enough, I would I don't.

    It is the gospel if you like.

    It is irrelevant imo. But knock yourself out.

    Parent

    So you have no experience (none / 0) (#66)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:24:32 PM EST
    or credentials and the masses at this blog is supposed to take your perception as fact over the Project for Excellence in Journalism? Arrogance is only charming when it is accompanied with fact separated from emotion. you have neither on this topic, so I will recuse myself from your silliness and enjoy your analysis on other subjects.

    Parent
    One saw data backing BTD every day here all year (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:41:42 PM EST
    if one was paying attention.

    Parent
    one was paying attention (none / 0) (#127)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:44:44 PM EST
    and watching the telly and providing non objective, emotionally based critiques is not scientific. One, being me, still thinks Hillary got a raw deal from the media, but I like Hillary and know that I am not objective. I for one am capable of recognizing my lack of objectivity and know that I look for idiotic statements from talking heads esp about Hillary...

    Parent
    no offense (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:11:38 PM EST
    but the daily howler? I do agree with some of their points but PEW is one of the more respected media analysts in the country, and I am not sure the daily howler can measure up from a credibility standpoint....

    Parent
    If you agree the methodology is bad (none / 0) (#24)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:15:07 PM EST
    it doesn't matter what Somerby thinks.

    Parent
    Americablog - delusional as always? (none / 0) (#3)
    by stillife on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:04:07 PM EST
    I agree with your assessment, BTD, although I'm not so sure Obama's "media darling" status will continue once they don't have Hillary to kick around anymore.

    So sad, too bad...Media Darlin' NoMo (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:18:07 PM EST
    The bloom went off Obama's rose the very same night he became the 'inevitable', presumptive nominee.

    Chris Matthews even lost that lovin' (well, tinglin') feeling, on June 3rd. Media Matters has risen to the occasion of trying to get it back up for Obama. Too bad they failed Hillary so miserably in the primary home stretch.

    Parent

    Oh I'm so shocked about Tweety (5.00 / 4) (#76)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:43 PM EST
    although I am pretty sure he doesn't know what he wants any more. Now that he doesn't have the Clintons to kick around anymore, he doesn't know which way to turn. Will it be the Straight Talk Express or the Most Classy Couple Who Ever Existed Since JFK and Jacqueline Kennedy? Oh, decisions, decisions!

    Media Matters became a joke to me after they insisted they would only refute the lies from the Right Media and no one else...while people were begging them to take apart the lies being spewed by KO and others.

    In all seriousness, I'd love to know of (or set up) a Media Watchdog that refutes all of the b.s. all the time, regardless of party affiliation. Considering MSNObamaC has now turned into Faux News Eviler Twin, someone should be pointing fingers.

    Parent

    I'm sick of Media Matters (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by stillife on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:45:38 PM EST
    They didn't do their job.  They rarely stood up for Hillary.  Now, when I get their e-mails about media bias against Obama or for McCain, I just yawn.  Too bad, so sad.  

    Live by the sword, die by the sword.  That will be the epitaph of Obama's campaign.

    Parent

    I took myself off their email list (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:05:53 PM EST
    I got tired of seeing the nonstop whining about Obama and occasional hits at McCain and crickets elsewhere. David Brock started out being objective and then lost it -- he didn't fall into the Kool-Aid Brigade AFAIK, but he went neutral which felt like appeasement. And, like I said, he refused to call out the people on MSNObamaC for their lies, distortions and b.s. because they're on 'the left' other than Tweety and occassionally Timmeh.

    At this point, no matter what heinous thing is said or done to Obama, Michelle or any other Democrat, I will not be offended or rush to their defense. As you said 'live by the sword, die by the sword'. When you perpetrate this kind of insanity and let it happen to your opponent without ever speaking up, you lose the right to beg for help when it happens to you.

    Parent

    YES (none / 0) (#110)
    by Foxx on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:38:19 PM EST
    THE TRUTH. The logs set up to do this have failed. But it can still be done. Please.

    Parent
    What? (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by cmugirl on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:31:34 PM EST
    "OK, one thing you don't do is you don't do what he does. You don't thank America for giving you what you got, like, I got all these degrees, I got all these advantages, so I thank America. Love of country is not because you got certain things from it. It's not a transaction. You don't thank people for giving you stuff. It's like loving your parents. You don't thank them for giving you a nice school and education. You thank them because they're your parents. They're your parents. You love your country -- it's called patriotism. It's love of fatherland, of country."

    Ok, in one paragraph, Matthews says "you don't thank people for giving your stuff," (uh, I thought that was called good manners?) and then he says, "It's love of fatherland, of country," (what?? is this Nazi Germany??)

    Parent

    Can someone please (none / 0) (#49)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:20:29 PM EST
    Explain the genesis of the "Obama: media darling" meme?

    I mean, I saw the way they went after him for Wright, Ayers, Rezco, Bittergate, the experience question, a barrage of  commentators saying he's not black enough, or too black, or that his color is irrelevant because Clinton's going to crush him anyway.

    And I'm sure I'm forgetting others.  Yes, there's been good stuff too.  Just like there's been good coverage of Clinton. And good and bad for McCain.  (well, mostly good for him.  Talk about a darling!)

    What am I missing?

    Did you now? (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:23:00 PM EST
    Ayers? Yes that Ayers story has ben like Kerry in Camboida hasn't it? Sheesh.

    As for Wright, Obama made the greatest spech since Lincoln's Cooper Union Spech (so sexz Gary Wills) and elevated the campaign or did you forget?

    Bittergate well, I grant you that they could have been easier on him there. But that came after SNL.

    As for Rezko? Who is he? Ask your neighbor if they know he is.
     

    Parent

    Rezko verdict dropped like a stone. Amazing. (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:27:06 PM EST
    yes but (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:28:27 PM EST
    we are still in the primary.  the 527s have not started yet and the media, god love um, will be looking for things to talk trash about a democrat now that they dont have Hillary to kick around anymore.

    Parent
    That I agree with (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:33:02 PM EST
    It's going to get very ugly before it's over.

    Parent
    absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:39:02 PM EST
    ugly.  I said earlier this campaign will set race relations back 30 years.  and heres the thing.
    the "media" as such may be in Obamas pocket but this is going to be an internet election.  the ugliest stuff will never make it into even the most offensive 527 ads but will still be seen by millions.


    Parent
    The 527's (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by samanthasmom on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:04:14 PM EST
    have the Rezco ad ready to go.  In deference to Jeralyn I won't link to it, but it's easy to find.

    Parent
    That's funny. (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:44:21 PM EST
    i'd have loved it loved it loved it if wright and Ayers had burst onto the network Prime time in December, not March.

    Parent
    Obama's speech on race (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:15:05 PM EST
    did not elevate the campaign.

    It was a deft maneuver to change the subject away from the content of Rev. Wright's sermons.

    I would also add that as a progressive I agreed with much of what the Rev had to say - particularly about the disastrous result of America's imperialistic and elitist foreign policy. I would have wished that Obama would have defended this view instead of running from it. But he did neither. He changed the subject - and everybody cheered.


    Parent

    I do remember Ayer, yes (none / 0) (#111)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:38:50 PM EST
    perhaps I was just paying better attention.

    But the ABC debate came LONG after his speech, (which was great, by the way)  so I can't see how you can seriously argue that his speech killed the story.

    Parent

    The ABC debate was an isolated example (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:40:53 PM EST
    of the media being outrageously hard on Obama.

    Every other debate was that bad against CLINTON. Especially, for example, 10/07 on MSNBC.

    Parent

    Actually the debate proves....... (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:45:06 PM EST
    ....the media darling status because the BIG STORY after the debate was not Ayers or anything thing else that was asked. It was, rather, how dare ABC be so mean to Obama. LOL.

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#141)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:50:54 PM EST
    wait a moment why wasn't obama asked about this last summer?   you know when other candidates were around?

    Parent
    A good example (none / 0) (#131)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:45:57 PM EST
    Which supports my meta point: the media attacks the front-runner.  Always.  The only way to keep the race interesting from their point of view, is to keep it close.

    Parent
    i'm not sure she really was the front runner (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:50:03 PM EST
    Obama outraised her. He was ahead of her in iowa in November.  Then after Iowa they attempted to bury her in the media and she lashed back so hard in left Tweety staggering.

    Parent
    The moderators (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:46:32 PM EST
    were consistently adopting Obama's talking points as they related to Edwards and clinton.  They even made sure biden was no trouble very early on with the "clean articulate" comment.

    Biden loves Obama. Like a favourite son yet teh media did a bit of premetive chastizement just to make sure biden shup hi pie hole about Obama.

    Parent

    Any other candidate with those (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Prabhata on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:23:12 PM EST
    friends would have been toast.  If it had been Hillary she would have had to fold at the sight of Wright.

    Parent
    Anyone else (5.00 / 3) (#86)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:28:27 PM EST
    would've been taken down after the sight of Wright. Let alone Wright Part II and then Father Pfleger: The Sequel. It's absolutely disgusting.

    Parent
    Hillary would have "folded" (none / 0) (#80)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:27:15 PM EST
    Because a guy she known for a long time is a crazy racist?

    Wow, I seem to have way more respect for her than you do.  But if you're right, it's a good thing the Republicans didn't get a chance to go after her.

    Unless that's sarcasm and I missed it.  In which case, I apologize.

    Parent

    LOL, your characterization of Wright.... (5.00 / 3) (#109)
    by Maria Garcia on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:38:04 PM EST
    ...as just a guy that Obama knows is pretty funny.

    Parent
    Fine (none / 0) (#125)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:44:09 PM EST
    A priest he's known for a long time.   Whatever, he sat in his church, he didn't marry the guy.

    It still comes down to guilt by association, which I would think any long time supporter of Bill Clinton, as I am, would recognize as the cheap media attack that it was.

    Parent

    he didn't marry the guy. (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:50:46 PM EST
    actually, he did.
    baptized his kids too.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:59:25 PM EST
    He performed their ceremony?  I didn't know that.

    I meant it as a joke that  Obama didn't get married TO Wright.  Point conceded.

    Anyway, I asked a question and you all answered it.  Not fully to my satisfaction but I see your point at least.

    Thank you all.

    Parent

    Thanks for the civil discussion n/t (none / 0) (#165)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:02:37 PM EST
    The guy married him - literally n/t (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:52:41 PM EST
    Actually (5.00 / 6) (#147)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:54:01 PM EST
    he's a Reverend. Father Pfleger is the priest. And he wasn't just his pastor, he was his spiritual mentor and a father figure to him for 20 years. And actually, he did marry the guy -- well, was married by him.

    Discounting the position Wright had in Obama's life is just utter b.s. after the fact. He meant so much to Obama that he is quoted repeatedly in Obama's books and gave him the title "The Audacity of Hope". Despite what you'd like to think Wright, Pfleger, Ayers and Rezko are not just some guys BO knew. They were his friends, confidents, advisors and political allies.

    Until they grew too troublesome and then they were all "not the person I knew before" and thrown under the bus conveniently. It's hysterically funny to see the way people will bend themselves into pretzels to avoid the reality of the nature of Obama's relationships with any of these dudes.

    Parent

    So you're saying (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:01:52 PM EST
    it would be fine to go after Michelle Obama?  Obama did marry her, after all.

    Parent
    Yes, I do. (5.00 / 3) (#207)
    by janarchy on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:22:48 PM EST
    Michelle has put herself out there as an Obama surrogate, she has to take the heat for it too. Just as Hillary did in 1992. When politicians spouses are part and parcel of their campaign, doing stumping, making speeches, etc. they're fair game. If they did as Howard Dean's wife did and hid from the media and didn't get involved, then of course not. But other than (Mrs) Dr. Dean, tell me, who has?

    Parent
    Actually he did, (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by Rhouse on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:02:29 PM EST
    marry the guy, to his wife that is.

    Parent
    Ummm (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by Emma on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:35:12 PM EST
    Wright did marry the guy.  He officiated at the Obamas' wedding.

    Parent
    Jeremiah Wright (5.00 / 5) (#151)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:55:52 PM EST
    was not just someone Obama knew for a long time.  He was Obama's pastor for 20 years.  He performed the Obamas' marriage.  He baptized their children.  He blessed their house.  He accepted well over $20,000 in church donations from the Obamas.

    If Wright had been Obama's plumber or dentist, no one would care about him.  But you pick a church and a pastor because you find their worldview and/or your fellow parishioners congenial.  That's what churches have to sell.

    Did you see the congregation during both of the Wright and the Pfleger sermons?  They weren't sitting there in shocked silence at the unhinged rants coming from those men's mouths.  They weren't surprised or disapproving.  They weren't storming out in a righteous fury.  They were cheering and clapping.

    This is what Wright's church - Obama's church - is.  To claim that Obama didn't know a thing about Wright's beliefs is ludicrous.  To claim that tying Obama to Wright's belief is a smear, instead of a simple statement of reality, is likewise ludicrous.  If Obama didn't want to be tied to a crazy racist, maybe he shouldn't have spent 20 years listening to one.

    Parent

    I see what you're saying... (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:11:23 PM EST
    I just think it was disproportionately focused on.  Did I believe he knew nothing about it?  No, I don't.  I did take him at his word that it wasn't the whole picture.

    In any event, thanks for the responses.  I see where my flippant attitude didn't help the discussion, so I apologize for that.

    Parent

    Well darn (5.00 / 2) (#221)
    by Nadai on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:32:32 PM EST
    Way to deflate my righteous indignation.  :)  Now what am I going to do for the rest of the evening?

    Parent
    Without getting into (5.00 / 5) (#137)
    by stillife on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:48:55 PM EST
    specific links (but see Bob Somerby's "incomparable archives"), one of the things the media did, in general, was to attribute motive to everything Hillary did, while letting Barack's actions pass unquestioned.  They did the same thing to Gore (vs. Bush) in 2000.

    Parent
    media darlings are assured (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:11:39 PM EST
    the media will conceal negative and damaging info about them.
    For an entire year, Obama lied about the Kennedys bringing his father to America! WaPo exposed his lie in March, but was never mentioned by the MSM. Of course, the Kennedys also went along with the lie.
    Jeralyn diaried it here.
    Obama lies. Period. The media doesn't report it.
    Therefore, Obama doesn't lie.

    The media does however channel Wright in manufacturing racist claims against the Clintons.

    Another Obama lie in campaign ads was his claim that Hillary's UHC would force poor people to buy insurance. No media or press ever challenged it. And certainly not Obama's A-list boyz.


    Parent

    You're missing the testimony of reporters (none / 0) (#77)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:26:55 PM EST
    who've admitted they are smitten by Obama, among other things.  Such as the media accepting the Obama campaign frames about the race.

    Parent
    Links please? (none / 0) (#87)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:28:57 PM EST
    I did miss them.  Where are they?

    Parent
    They are everywhere (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by CST on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:34:07 PM EST
    So I kinda agreed with your first post, KINDA.  I certainly know that the media hated Clinton more than anyone else.  I do think at some point the media turned on Obama a bit and he stopped being such a "darling" after Wright, bittergate, etc...

    However, Tweety "i get a tingle up my leg" Matthews and the rest of his cronies over at MSNBC were definitely in love in an abnormal way with Obama at the beginning of his campaign.

    You want a link, google it.  Look on any previous post here.

    Parent

    Google obama reporters smitten (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:45:48 PM EST
    for example.  If you look you'll find.

    Parent
    This is petty but... (none / 0) (#149)
    by Y Knot on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:54:27 PM EST
    You did lob it to me.

    All this is hardly the end of the world. Clinton is not behind principally because of media bias; Obama is not ahead principally because of media favoritism.  


    Parent
    Aaaand... (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:56:21 PM EST
    that's a reporter telling you that.

    Anyway, "principally" is very damaging to your argument.

    Parent

    every debate was... (none / 0) (#135)
    by Salo on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:47:49 PM EST
    ...in retropect clearly held on Obama's terms of reference and his talking points.

    Parent
    Y knot, why can you not just GOOGLE? (none / 0) (#143)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:52:06 PM EST
    Is John still posting at AmericaBlog? (none / 0) (#82)
    by Larry Bailey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:27:50 PM EST
    Last few times I checked in there, all I saw from John were the photos from his latest vacation.

    Interesting GWBush take on approval / negativity (none / 0) (#145)
    by Ellie on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:53:21 PM EST
    I posted this a few weeks ago in relation to a discussion that I now can't remember (prob. a thread about polls, and dis/approval ratings.)

    I recall reading that GW Bush always believed that Reagan, with his positive approval rating* should have used that "political capital" to ram through more of a conservative agenda. IMO this was what informed his rambles about his legacy, and history vindicating his admin. (bwahahhahaha as if)

    I still think GWB's as dumb as a rock at a spelling bee but it was an intersting comment from someone who was the most loathed man on the planet, and that was while Saddam Hussein was still alive. (The well thugged and well handled media kept insisting the opposite but WTF do they know?)

    * GWB's going on hagiography not history because what I took out of the Reagan years was that no one could stand him, his hair dye resembled nothing found in nature and his cheek makeup was easily at rodeo clown level. Actors, sheesh -- don't let them near the makeup bag cause they fool no one.

    2 peas (none / 0) (#175)
    by glennmcgahee on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:06:47 PM EST
    It was the media that gave us 2 terms of Bush and its the media that  is giving us Obama. 2 losers with no experience to think of and both have shady pasts. Both experiemented with drugs in their youth, possibly as adults. Both have unsavory characters in their circle of supporters. The corporate world wins again. As long as the evangelicals are against McCain, thats good enough for me. Obama and his religious associates (remember he began his campaign with a gospel tour) and Bush with his born again zealotry. Keep your religion away from my government!

    NYTimes endorsed Clinton (none / 0) (#181)
    by lgm on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:10:08 PM EST
    The New York Times endorsed Clinton.  I don't know about other major papers.  Of course, Fox was only interested in destroying both candidates.  

    The other TV networks may have mistreated Clinton (Oberman was obnoxious), but they also gave Obama some rough handling.  Playing the Reverend Wright clips over and over didn't help Obama.  

    The Times (5.00 / 3) (#206)
    by lentinel on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:22:34 PM EST
    The Times endorsed Clinton and went out of their way to also say what a swell guy Obama is.

    Then, their coverage proceeded to be among the lowest I have ever read. They spent days on Clinton's cleavage and her laugh.

    They printed endless photos of Obama and nary a one of her.

    They printed endless fluff stories about Obama and only attack stories on Clinton.

    He was always portrayed as being wronged if attacked.
    She was always portrayed as being only worthy of being attacked.

    Parent

    may have???? (5.00 / 0) (#227)
    by tree on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:40:43 PM EST
     Can point to the MSNBC interview with an anti-Obama group with similarly vile name as the anti-Clinton group Citizens United @%#& $*() !!!(vile acronym) . I must have missed the interview with Neighbors Interested etc etc (acronym of a vile derogatory name to describe Obama ). It was open season on the cable networks to call her any number of vile names. What vile names was Obama called?

    Parent
    Obama chose to embrace Wright (none / 0) (#205)
    by Josey on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:21:45 PM EST
    and his racist Black Liberation Theology - which is never or seldom discussed in the MSM although Obama demonstrates it regularly in word and deed.
    In fact, his entire campaign is based on tenets of BLT.
    BLT isn't even mainstream in Black churches and apparently most whites think it has something to do with "liberating" blacks. sigh

    Well sure, if "liberating" is the same as "victimhood."

    Obama's BLT indoctrination is a major reason I will not vote for him.

    Parent

    Just two questions (none / 0) (#192)
    by space on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:15:26 PM EST
    Hillary is not the media's darling. Although she certainly benefited from the media declaring her the inevitable candidate for most of 2007.  But I'll agree that the media -- and by extension, many Democrats -- often presumes ill-motives of Hillary where they don't with Obama.

    My first question is, why is that Obama's fault?

    It has been obvious for years that Hillary and Bill have been painted by the media as being scheming, devious "do-anything-to-win" politicians.  Obama doesn't have that perception.  But why is that his fault?  Why should he or his supporters apologize for having a better image?

    My second question is, if Hillary has this image problem and can't catch a break from the press, why would we want her as our nominee?  

    I'm not saying it is fair.  Life isn't fair.  And I'm not saying that the media isn't biased against Democrats anyway.  But why start out with a disadvantage?  If people give Obama the benefit of the doubt that seems like an asset.   If they don't give Hillary the benefit of the doubt that seems like a liability.  If I'm a Democrat and I really, really, really, really want to take back the White House, I am going to go with the person who gets good press, isn't presumptively guilty of a scandal, and isn't always playing defense.


    "why is that Obama's fault?" (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by rilkefan on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:21:31 PM EST
    Hello, BTD main thesis here this last year has been that the media favoritism of Obama is a reason to support him.  The only counterargument has been that against McCain this advantage will evaporate.

    Parent
    Space, read some upstream posts... (5.00 / 3) (#218)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:29:22 PM EST
    When it comes to the Clintons, media hate actually creates a backlash and makes the public love them all the more.

    Parent
    Response (5.00 / 2) (#224)
    by befuddledvoter on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:35:35 PM EST
    First,  Hillary was never advantaged by the media's perception of her as the frontrunner.  In fact she was disadvantaged by it.  From the beginning of the campaign season until January, it was Obama, Edwards, Richardson, Dodd, Biden vs. Hillary Clinton.  It was a gang bang, IMHO.  this was especially observable during the debates.

    Second, Obama at any time could have made a declaration denouncing the sexism and misogyny of the media coverage. At no time did he.  At no time at all do I even recall him addressing this.
    He could have at least mentioned it and that would have been noted by the media.  I hold him responsible for that.

    Third, while Hillary did have terrible coverage during the campaign, this does not detract from the fact that she got more popular votes than Obama.  The media coverage was brutal but the fact is she has been the clear winner for months now.  She is the stronger nominee at this point.

    Parent

    You essentially just made BTD's original case (none / 0) (#196)
    by andgarden on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:17:34 PM EST
    for supporting Obama.

    Facts, for example that voters continued not to much care what the media said about Hillary, changed the picture.

    But Obama's media darlingness is still probably an asset against McCain.

    Parent