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Monday Night's Convention Schedule and Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Democratic National Convention 2008
Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:37:32 PM EST
Tags: Democratic National Convention (all tags)
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Here's tonight's speaker list. While Pepsi Center speeches begin at 3pm, the prime time program is 7 to 9 pm MT. Michelle Obama is the final speaker.

The program will close with a benediction by Don Miller, described as a "Best-selling author & public speaker focusing on Christian spirituality." I'll be gone as soon as Michelle has finished speaking.

After that, I plan to attend a special cocktail reception at the Denver Art Museum celebrating the 88th anniversary of the ratification of the 19th Amendment to the US Constitution. It's from 9pm to midnight. Sen. Hillary Clinton will be among the speakers.

Thanks to Atrios for taking and posting this photo of CNN analyst Jeffrey Toobin and me from the Salon Party Saturday night.

This is an open thread.

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    Monday Night's Convention Schedule and Open Thread | 204 comments (204 topical)
    Glad to hear Hillary will be among the speakers... (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:39:57 PM EST
    she should be. Was there a question?

    Also...this is not good press for the DNC, Obama or unity.

    DNC Returns $100,000 donation from Rangel as 'Tainted' Money

    Given that the rule is enforced (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:51:11 PM EST
    arbitrarily (if not a dumb one put in place just so they can make a PR statement), Rangel can conclude the rejection of this donation was for a personal reason.


    Parent
    They insist on ticking Charlie off (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:25:20 PM EST
    Didn't they also deny his request to speak at the convention? Evidently someone doesn't like him!

    Parent
    Isn't Chuck Schumer dealing with (none / 0) (#125)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:54:26 PM EST
    some issue, as well? Seems they have realized they truly can't discredit Hillary directly, so they are chipping away at the credibility of her strong, respected supporters.

    Parent
    yeah that plus apartments (none / 0) (#157)
    by AlSmith on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:06:23 PM EST
    there is the part where Rangel scammed himself into 3 extra rent controlled apartments. Its better not to show case him.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/nyregion/11rangel.html

    Parent

    are you sure (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:20:09 PM EST
    he didn't scam himself a really great interest rate?

    Parent
    O.M.G. (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:53:02 PM EST
    "It's (seen as) tainted," said one source, adding it was considered "lobbyists' money."

    Biden's son is a freakin' lobbyist. Is he tainted also?

    Parent

    They have a problem with lobbyists (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:06:38 PM EST
    except when they don't. Smoke and mirrors.

    Parent
    The DNC and Obama are fooling nobody (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Prabhata on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:51:53 PM EST
    Despite a campaign that attacked corporate and special interest lobbyists as evil and banned their money and participation, Sen. Barack Obama has done little, if anything, about their pervasive, free-spending presence at the Democratic convention in Denver, ethics watchdog groups say.
      Trail

    Parent
    Hillary focused on the platform.... (none / 0) (#105)
    by Aqua Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:47:34 PM EST
    got to get past personalities.

    The ideology is what matters.  

    Parent

    I agree with the sentiment (5.00 / 0) (#107)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:49:17 PM EST
    Unfortunately, Obama has been running on nothing but personality.

    Parent
    Right...but when he is in the (none / 0) (#115)
    by Aqua Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:06 PM EST
    WhiteHouse he will have to sign the Democratic bills.    Big improvement over George W's vetoes.

    Obama will be under tremendous pressure to get the platform accomplished.

    Parent

    His hero's are Regean & Bush I (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:53:55 PM EST
    he voted for FISA. He opted out of "campaign financing." I don't know if there will be any "Dem. bills" if he is in the WH.

    Parent
    Yes, those statements stunk and (none / 0) (#132)
    by Aqua Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:57:10 PM EST
    he will have no choice but to sign Democratic Bills.    His ego is such that he will do what is necessary to get a 2nd term.

    Parent
    If he wins, I hope you are right (none / 0) (#137)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:58:52 PM EST
    But odds aren't good of either.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#148)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:02:10 PM EST
    he won't have to sign those bills. He's already thrown 1/2 the party under the bus. Obama doesn't care about anyone but Obama.

    Parent
    What has George Bush vetoed? (none / 0) (#193)
    by Emma on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:21:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Ideology doesn't matter to me (none / 0) (#195)
    by Edgar08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:22:12 PM EST
    If tax breaks for the rich made poor richer I'd be all for it.


    Parent
    Press Conference in Progress (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:43:03 PM EST
    right now on C-Span with Hillary.

    And now, Charlie Rangel is on (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:09:06 PM EST
    speaking to the New York delegation lunch, just not to the whole convention.

    Parent
    He's good. (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:12:07 PM EST


    Parent
    He is good (5.00 / 5) (#34)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:13:39 PM EST
    He is giving the Obama campaign more respect and support than they have given him.

    I am glad he said they were loyal to Hillary to the very end. They were.

    I am hoping that if the vote is cut short they end it with the NY delegation proudly casting all their votes for Hillary Clinton.

    Parent

    Go, Chuck Schumer now (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:20:10 PM EST
    leading a rousing cheer for Clinton.

    And then getting back to business about that (other) "beautiful lady in New York, the one in the harbor," who needs us to not turn our backs on her, etc.

    Great segue from one beautiful woman to another, and a clear implication not to turn our backs on either one.

    Parent

    His introduction (5.00 / 5) (#53)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:23:15 PM EST
    is killing me. I can't stop tears from gathering in my eyes. Our party made a HUGE mistake.

    Parent
    Stop it....I'm not even watching it and you (5.00 / 3) (#140)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:59:16 PM EST
    are making me cry....I am fifty times more upset about this than the bush debacle...

    Parent
    This is so sad. (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:23:23 PM EST
    Just briefly going over her history shows how much more she has accomplished than Obama.

    Parent
    Did you just hear the Hillary chortle? (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:36:54 PM EST
    When she was gabbing with the gov?

    So great to hear it again.

    Haven't heard a good laugh out of a Dem leader in a long time.  So lacking in a sense of humor or just a sense of joy.  Maybe Biden will bring that back.

    Reminds me of the candidate called the Happy Warrior from New York, the one who won the White House a record four times.  We need warriors.  And ones who impart great glee in fighting for us.

    Parent

    That was great. (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:46:02 PM EST
    It was nice seeing them altogether like that. The Gov is known for his sense of humor. Charlie just beams with pride toward our Lady :)

    Parent
    Stephanie Tubbs Jones (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:04:56 PM EST
    Always on the attack, with a big smile on her face. They could all learn a little bit from her.

    Parent
    Is Chuckie joking? (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:42:27 PM EST
    he waxes poetic about Lady Liberty in the harbor, then he votes in the Senate....link

    A few lowlights....

    Voted YES on reauthorizing the PATRIOT Act.
    Voted YES on reinstating $1.15 billion funding for the COPS Program.
    Voted NO on allowing Habeus Corpus appeals in capital cases.
    Voted YES on loosening restrictions on cell phone wiretapping

    With friends and admirers like that, Lady Liberty doesn't need enemies.

    Parent

    Don't forget that he gifted us with... (none / 0) (#128)
    by desertswine on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:55:42 PM EST
    Mukasey. Thanks Chuck.

    Parent
    Sexist language (none / 0) (#122)
    by bocajeff on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:53:31 PM EST
    Would Sen Shumer be describing a male presidential candidate as "beautiful" or handsome? I think not.

    Parent
    Looking to start something, eh? (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:01:13 PM EST
    Biden called Obama "good looking and clean", was that a problem? In fact, Obama is described as handsome, good looking, etc. all the time from other men in politics and the media.

    Parent
    Actuall, Biden's Comments Were A Problem (none / 0) (#181)
    by daring grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:17:27 PM EST
    Well, they were something he felt he had to apologize for.

    CNN

    Parent

    Well aware of that, link unnecessary (none / 0) (#203)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:30:44 PM EST
    Biden is the VP pick, or didn't you notice? His comment was not classified as sexist when said about Obama. You'll also note the use of "handsome and good looking" are descriptives that are frequently used for Obama was mentioned. If those are criticized, you have a whole bunch more links to go looking for.


    Parent
    If they cut short the vote (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:20:41 PM EST
    they disenfranchise half the party.

    Parent
    Shouldn't Be Cut Short At All (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by daring grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:20:59 PM EST
    but if it is, yes, her own state should get to cast theirs.

    Parent
    Bless Charlie Rangel... (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by Aqua Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:33:58 PM EST
    He asked, "What did you do when America was in an immoral war?   What did you do when people were dying from lack of healthcare?"

    Charlie Rangel made me focus on the party platform.   Charlie Rangel made me get realize that I must get past my grievances.  Charlie Rangel made me realize that I must vote a straight Democratic ticket.   Too much is at stake and there may not be another opportunity to save this Democracy for my kids and grandkids.

     

    Parent

    Thanks For The Heads-Up (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:23:09 PM EST
    I find it so difficult to watch this, and to listen to what Chuck Schumer is saying about her now.
    ((heartbreak))

    Parent
    It's going to be quite a contrast tonight (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:24:45 PM EST
    when they try and pump up Obama's story.

    Parent
    She is so grateful (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:26:42 PM EST
    and gracious, so very presidential.

    There simply is no comparison.

    Parent

    really? (1.00 / 1) (#118)
    by bocajeff on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:15 PM EST
    I don't have CDS, but I hardly think she is being gracious. Grace would have been stepping aside and releasing her delegates months ago. Grace wouldn't be holding on and creating an appearance of dissention. That's what grace is.

    What Sen. Clinton is doing isn't any better than the 1968 Dem., 1976 Rep., 1980 Dem., and 1992 Rep. Conventions. Look where that went.

    IMO, what she is doing isn't too far off from where Ronald Reagan was in 1976. Grace? I think not.

    Parent

    Mmmmm, another wonderful (5.00 / 8) (#123)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:53:45 PM EST
    posting creating all the right thoughts, feelings, and mutual respect and unity that will enable Obama to win this election.  Good Job

    Parent
    Released her delegates months ago? (5.00 / 4) (#130)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:56:29 PM EST
    Just like Teddy Kennedy did against Carter (when he had what -- 600 delegates and took it to the convention) or just like Howard Dean did against Kerry (when he had about 100 and took them to the convention)? Or is it only because she is a WOMAN that she should have let her delegates (approximately 59 less then Obama has) go months ago?
    I think you need a second opinion about having CDS.

    Parent
    Are you unfamiliar with democracy? (5.00 / 8) (#133)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:57:15 PM EST
    and how this system has always worked, but is being discarded this year because Hillary got way too close.

    Any previous election year with the pledged delegate count getting so close, the roll call would actually be to determine the winner, not a formality to reunite the party.


    Parent

    How can you compare this to 1968 or 1980?!? (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Firewalker on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:16:06 PM EST
    Sorry, but you do indeed have a raging case of CDS.

    Parent
    You are a piece of work....if you want to get (4.50 / 6) (#161)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:07:39 PM EST
    down to it...obama and the DNC had to twist the rules to get his name on the ballot.  If he were a loyal dem, he would have stepped down as he has to know how inexperienced he is; and then he went with that meme...not going to do the old politics thing.  Hmmmm, Biden, doesn't get anymore WA insider than that....many have been snookered.

    Parent
    Hillary could not be more clear (5.00 / 10) (#7)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:50:40 PM EST
    She will release her delegates to vote thier concience. Period. She will inform them of her choice to vote for Obama but will not tell them how to vote.

    She also made it clear that people need to be heard even if they choose to vote for her.

    She is wonderful.

    She said again everything that she can (5.00 / 10) (#33)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    say, and no What Hillary Really Meant about it -- there never has been need for that since her suspension speech, which made it clear to anyone who cared to listen.  And she has done more than any other candidate has done this time or other times.

    So let it be said that any Obama or McCain trolls (or others) who come on here to question this are just asking for it from me.  I will have to use all those @##%^&!~! marks, but by meaning will be clear.

    And this is the meaning that will be clear:  Anyone who continues to question what Clinton has done or is doing for Obama is someone who has problems with their mother and/or other women.  And Clinton cannot fix that, nor can a blog.  Get help.:-)

    Parent

    right on, sister. (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:34:26 PM EST
    Head held high.
    F*ck those petty snots.
    (oops! let my head drop there for a sec).

    Parent
    I love her laugh (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:35:14 PM EST


    Parent
    Corporate media (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by standingup on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:34:45 PM EST
    would go broke paying for enough counseling to "help" all of their staff.  I listened to CNN on XM for about 20 minutes this afternoon.  It was non-stop hits on the Clintons.  The media is out of control and have truly jumped the shark.

    Parent
    Have they dropped the sexism yet? (none / 0) (#85)
    by Fabian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:38:42 PM EST
    Perhaps we can put one win in our column if the pundits have stopped their disgusting misogyny.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#197)
    by standingup on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:22:36 PM EST
    I heard at least on reference to Hillary and Glenn Close/Fatal Attraction.  

    Parent
    today? (5.00 / 1) (#207)
    by Fabian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:35:35 PM EST
    Please tell me you are joking, or provide a cite so I can send a very nasty email to the DNC.

    Parent
    I was watching her speech to the NY delegation (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:55:04 PM EST
    and thinking that the case she makes is exactly the case Obama should be making.  She's making the Fightin Democrat case.  Just prior to that, I saw a 'Democratic strategist' (didn't catch his name) on Fox who is pushing the post-partisan, let's all be friends with the Republicans shtick.  I have yet to hear Obama or any of his surrogates make the case Hillary is making.  They are too busy counting houses, or something, I guess.

    Watching entirely random coverage of the convention today, I still haven't seen any attempts to appeal to Clinton supporters, except from Clinton herself.  Just assertions of unity and predictions (again) that Clinton supporters will get over their 'disappointment' after the convention.

    Parent

    Yep...Hillary is doing more to help Obama (none / 0) (#142)
    by Aqua Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:59:44 PM EST
    than he is doing to help himself.

    Hillary convinced me.

    A Democrat has to win the White House.

    Parent

    This will be my first convention on drugs (5.00 / 6) (#10)
    by esmense on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:52:28 PM EST
    I'm undergoing a lumpectomy tomorrow morning and plan to recuperate in front of the tv with some helpful pain killers.

    Look for some Hunter Thompson like insights once I get in good enough shape for typing.

    Looking forward to it..... (5.00 / 3) (#16)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:00:28 PM EST
    ...and all my best wishes for the speediest of recuperations.

    Parent
    Good luck... (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:06:01 PM EST
    with the procedure, and I look forward to your gonzo-esque commentary.  

    You do have to be on some kind of dope to sit through that b.s., and at least you get the full effect of the unintentional comedy factor, which is sometimes lost on the sober.  

    If I decide to tune in at all, I'll be right there under the influence with ya:)

    Parent

    Sending good thoughts your way (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:11:06 PM EST
    for a trouble-free procedure and a good outcome.

    Even if you are feeling pretty good afterwards, the drugs don't sound like a bad way to help you watch the coverage!

    Parent

    good luck with the procedure (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by ccpup on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    I'm sure you'll pull through just fine.  

    But, on a serious note, unless you're going to share those pain killers with the rest of us (or just me!) for the duration of the Convention, I consider your bragging about your imminent stupor a poke in the eye and a knee in the crotch.  Especially to someone who's ALREADY under a damn BUS!

    Seriously, you gonna share or what?

    :-)

    Hope you feel better sooner rather than later.

    Parent

    Too bad.... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:25:16 PM EST
    we aren't nominating Ron Paul or a like minded lover of liberty, any adult could go to the drug store and buy whatever they wanted without a govt. issue permission slip as soon as next year, if Paul had his way.

    Then we wouldn't have to hit up the sick to share their stash:)  Though the elderly on fixed incomes and an excess of drugs would lose out on a black-market income opportunity...we might have to increase SS benefits:)

    Parent

    Too bad that Ron Paul (5.00 / 1) (#209)
    by eleanora on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:37:10 PM EST
    is only a lover of liberty for men. He thinks "any adult" should be able to buy any drug they like, but that women aren't adult enough to control decisions about their own bodies. His "Sanctity of Life Act" would supersede all state laws relating to contraception/abortion with federal ones. He also strongly opposes any federal funding for birth control, any requirements that insurance companies cover it equally with Viagra, and wants to bring "abstinence only education" into the public schools.

    What an awesome proponent of individual freedom.

    Parent

    Some good news from my home state (none / 0) (#68)
    by CST on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:29:35 PM EST
    It's on the ballot this november to de-criminalize pot.  And I think it's polling somewhere near 75%.  Too bad the feds won't back down.

    Parent
    My best wishes and positive vibes to you. (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:14:25 PM EST
    Good luck sitting through that spectacle even with drugs. : )

    Parent
    You will be well (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:16:28 PM EST
    and better than ever when done with this.  Be confident, and know that we're there for you, as I have been for many, many friends who have gone through this procedure and much more.

    And every single one is still here and feistier than ever.  You gotta keep up that record, grrrl. :-)

    So gonzo through the procedure and get back and gonzo for us.  

    Parent

    once you have done it under the influence (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:16:49 PM EST
    you wont do it any other way
    ;-)

    Parent
    Thank you all. (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by esmense on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:22:42 PM EST
    I do expect everything to go well and easily. I just finished 5 months of chemo -- so this is the easy part. I'm in the final stretch and expecting a full recovery.

    Obsessing about the election, and griping here on Talk Left about the often cluelessness of the Democratic Party -- with which I have a fond, masochistic 30 + year relationship with -- has been a great distraction, and maybe even a form of therapy.

    Parent

    tunes (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by jedimom on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:51:18 PM EST
    great to have tunes with you when you kick back to watch the docudrama of the convention unfolding. Put up your feet and listen to some Joe Cocker and Allman Brothers or whomever gives you a good groove and feel fine :0)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHhKnc0XZrs
    Whippin Post
    Allman Brothers Band

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FMq0iDX1yE
    Joe Cocker
    With a Little Help From My Friends

    Parent

    Don't watch too much of the convention... (none / 0) (#170)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:12:06 PM EST
    don't want anything to interfere with your recovery :)  Be well quickly!!

    Parent
    from Republico (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:55:45 PM EST
    Some senior Democrats close to Obama, meanwhile, made clear in not-for-attribution comments that they were equally irked at the Clinton operation. Nearly three months after Hillary Clinton conceded defeat in the nomination contest, these Obama partisans complained, her team continues to act like she and Bill Clinton hold leverage.

    the nerve.  that the only living two term dem president and the person who got 18 million votes believe they have "leverage".
    can you believe it?

    Im confused (5.00 / 3) (#194)
    by Chisoxy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:21:52 PM EST
    for people who have no leverage, they do expect Hill and Bill to deliver a lot of wayward voters.

    Parent
    really (none / 0) (#201)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:26:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Republico is (none / 0) (#18)
    by JThomas on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:02:48 PM EST
    seeking to sow more disharmony in the democratic party. They love to insult both Hillary and Obama. They are laughing about this discord they percieve to have created. We will prove them wrong. They want to continue an unbroken 16 year run of giving to the rich and widening the gap between average americans and the GOP base.

    Remember George Bush at the 2004 100,000 dollar fundraiser in texas said as he looked at them..

    ''You are my base''

    Bush/McCain...they are for the millionaires.Do not put them back in power.

    Parent

    They (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by sas on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:07:14 PM EST
    don't have to seek to sow discord.  Discord is in full bloom.

    Parent
    that old saw about reaping (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:10:10 PM EST
    what you sow comes to mind.

    Parent
    true (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:11:04 PM EST
    its obvious republicans of all stripes are loving what is happening.  but they did not cause it.

    Parent
    In fact, they've been a bit late to the game (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:03:55 PM EST
    The real attempts to exploit the existing division in the party only started rather recently.  

    Were the party people in the article named?  (unlike various Obama fan blogs quoting unnamed staffers).  I skimmed an article earlier quoting Clyburne at length, who was doing unity no favors.  I can't give a cite bc I was just surfing around, but I'm sure it can be googled.

    And now this story is circulating, where the IL state senate president called a Hillary delegate an 'Uncle Tom' -- story in the Sun-Times.  It's just not very unifying.

    Parent

    Obviously this is McCain's one (none / 0) (#30)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:11:41 PM EST
    chance, sowing discord. I just wish Democrats wouldn't make it so easy for him to do.

    Parent
    we need to get over the misguided (5.00 / 8) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:15:28 PM EST
    idea that McCain is sowing discord.  he is reaping discord.  it was sown long by others months ago.

    Parent
    Perhaps, I also don't believe (none / 0) (#75)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:34:16 PM EST
    it unfair to say McCain is fanning the flames.

    Parent
    of couse he is (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:40:44 PM EST
    wouldnt you?

    Parent
    Sure would. That's why I also (none / 0) (#91)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:42:13 PM EST
    said I wish we wouldn't make it so easy for him.

    Parent
    of course he is (5.00 / 2) (#90)
    by Dadler on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:40:58 PM EST
    but the dems are too busy eating themselves to care.

    sad state indeed.

    Parent

    Yep. (none / 0) (#93)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:42:32 PM EST


    Parent
    He wouldn't of course. (none / 0) (#119)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:21 PM EST
    McCain wont win the election, the Dems are going to have to lose it, in order for him to be Prez.

    Parent
    some of us (5.00 / 0) (#138)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:58:54 PM EST
    think they have already done that

    Parent
    Some good news (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by CST on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:01:32 PM EST
    From Zimbabwe finally.  And this even despite the fact that 15 of their members couldn't show up to vote because they were hiding from the police.  Now we'll see whether or not Mugabe "honors" this vote.

    Joe Biden (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by flashman on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:05:50 PM EST
    I was on vacation for much of last week, and I missed the "VP" party here, so my apologies if I'm retreading ground here.  When I first heard of this shocking pick, my first thought was, this is a bad pick from a political point of view.  Does this not dilute the whole "change" narrative?  Is Biden not the ultimate Washington insider?  But today, I began to think the pick my be motivated by the fact that "change" is not selling as well as it did in the primaries.  This pick, in fact, is a signal that the emphasis will now be placed on experience, credentials, bonafides, etc. and not change.  Internal polling must have indicated that average Americans are more concerned about the experience factor than about changing Washington.  

    I read (5.00 / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:22:45 PM EST
    a supposed dem strategist talking about why Joe Biden was a bad pick for VP. He had 14 reasons for it. The only positive that Biden has is his ability to play "attack dog". He brings nothing else to the table and yes, it does say that what Obama has been pushing isn't selling. Also, it indicates that Obama was worried about being able to carry PA. Biden doesn't help with working class voters in any other state.

    Parent
    Biden is also a safe seat (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:14:36 PM EST
    in the Senate just in case they don't win.  

    Am I the only one who finds it funny that everyone is talking about polls?  I thought everyone was tired of politicians who lead by doing what the polls say?    

    Parent

    Huh (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by janarchy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:07:25 PM EST
    The program will close with a benediction by Don Miller, described as a "Best-selling author & public speaker focusing on Christian spirituality."

    The Democratic Party - the new home of Christianity. And people wonder why some of us aren't happy with the current direction the party's taking?

    I look forward to the Wiccan (5.00 / 6) (#55)
    by Fabian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:24:27 PM EST
    benediction.

    Anyone know what day that will be on?

    Parent

    I wish I knew! (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by janarchy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:35:08 PM EST
    It would be nice to see something other than Christianity spotlighted at this convention. The Democratic party used to be the one of diversity, wasn't it?

    Parent
    "faith" & "religion" (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by Fabian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:43:43 PM EST
    are such generic terms.

    But somehow they consistently translate to "Judeo-Christian organized religions".

    Parent

    With more emphasis (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by janarchy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:04 PM EST
    on the Christian than the Judeo. I don't see a rabbi getting up there and doing any convocations, unfortunately. How cool and unifying would it have been to see a female rabbi (of which there are many) doing something?

    Parent
    Next we'll be (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Grace on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:33:10 PM EST
    the Pro-Life party...

    I'm really not liking this year.  


    Parent

    The Wiccans... (5.00 / 3) (#210)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:37:37 PM EST
    are scheduled in between the rastafarians and the atheists during the "when hell freezes over" symposium.

    Parent
    is that fair (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by AlSmith on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:30:47 PM EST
    "I'll be gone as soon as Michelle has finished speaking. "

    If you are going to get caught up in the Unity theme, is it fair that you skip the parts that are too gooey and vibey? After all that is what some of us dislike about the Obamaexperience.

    Parent

    Yeah but then.... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:32:05 PM EST
    ....maybe some of us can skip the voting part. ;-)

    Parent
    Sick about the faith stuff (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by nycvoter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:08:01 PM EST
    while I believe we have to be able to reach out to voters who have strong church, mosque, synagogue, temple attendance and strong faith, I think we need to do that based upon our democratic values to give everyone the tools for opportunity (health care, education), combat poverty, protect the environment, respect life (no death penalty, less war more diplomacy, balancing life interests of woman and their whole family as well as the fetus) etc without having to have a blurring of religious tests with our candidates and having spiritual aspects to political conventions.

    This greatly worries me about this candidate.

    been harping on this for months (5.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:14:22 PM EST
    if McCain is smart enough to pick a pro choice running mate (Ridge) it will not be a easy decision for me.
    I still believe there is probably nothing McCain would love more than to stick it to the religious right.
    no better way to do that than with a stellar SCOTUS nominee.


    Parent
    Will never happen (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:29:09 PM EST
    McCain has worked overtime since clinching the nomination in order to mend fences with his party's right wing and the evangelicals who see him as an enemy.  There is absolutely no way he will squander all the political capital he's recaptured, and then some, by naming a pro-choice running mate.

    Parent
    also (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:45:27 PM EST
    I think Ridge is the only viable pro choice possibility.  not Lieberman.  Ridge would also take away whatever edge Biden gives him in PENN.
    I know that they have been talking to republicans all over the country about the possibility of a pro choice running mate.
    I think if Obama had chosen Hillary McCain would be in trouble and he would make a safe pick.  frankly I think picking Biden has given McCain some room to be bold.  I dont think they are worried about the "Biden effect" at all.

    Parent
    I don't think McCain is going to make a safe pick (5.00 / 3) (#106)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:48:59 PM EST
    But I don't think his pick will be pro-choice either. Given my own deeply felt hunch as well as the chatter on the right wing blogs in the last few days, I believe he is going to choose Sarah Palin. If he does it will be Obama who is in trouble. God help us all.

    Parent
    if that is the choice (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:50:58 PM EST
    you are correct. trouble with a capital T.

    Parent
    Everythime I say it (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:11:21 PM EST
    I get blown off. I don't think some fellow liberals have quite woken up yet to what the possibility of a McCain/Palin ticket would mean.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:50:13 PM EST
    If he does, that would definitely mix things up, yeah.

    Reality is, McCain has made life a lot easier for the Dems by running a hard-right campaign.  If he had kept up the maverick schtick, sure he would have had trouble with his base, but he would have picked off a lot more folks closer to the center, particularly with all the turmoil on the Dem side this year.

    So yeah, if he decided to try and recast himself as a moderate yet again, that would be a game-changer, although who knows what the ultimate outcome would be.  I expect a nice, safe, boring Republican-style pick though.

    Parent

    In the abstract (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by BrianJ on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:12:03 PM EST
    You have to be impressed with the campaign McCain has run.

    He won only 47 percent of the Republican vote during the primaries, but has done an excellent job of mending fences with Huckabee/ Romeny supporters-  Pew's most recent poll had him getting 88% of the vote from them, or as much as he's getting from his own primary supporters.  (This means that his "hard-right" campaign was really required for him.  If Obama had run the way McCain has-  ie, by working hard to get the votes of his primary opponents-  he'd have a substantial lead now.)

    In addition, he quickly found and has kept pressing Obama's Berserk Button, and will keep doing so until Election Day.  I don't think he'll use any of the really dirty tricks available because they won't get under Obama's skin the way calling him a celebrity lightweight has.

    Parent

    I dont necessarily disagree (none / 0) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:40:00 PM EST

    but what if he does

    Parent

    Opening the convention with the minister (5.00 / 5) (#50)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:22:44 PM EST
    who blasted abortion and blah-blahed the right-wing points about the lives of the unborn, etc., is an incredible turnoff for me.

    I doubt that even the GOP convention will begin with a man of God calling down the wrath of the heavens on anyone who supports its party platform.  Think about it.

    Parent

    Religion (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:33:43 PM EST
    I just read last week where the newest poll shows the majority of American's are tired of all this religion in politic. Even the number of conservatives troubled by it has risen.

    Parent
    Truly sickening.... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Aqua Blue on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:36:42 PM EST
    caught just bits and pieces of the Faith meeting and was soooo... turned off to see this happening at a Democratic Convention.

    Parent
    attracting religious 'right' voters... (5.00 / 0) (#134)
    by jedimom on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:57:48 PM EST
    Faux was interviewing some young Evangelical leader today who was supposed to open the convention and then changed his mind about it not wanting to be seen as endorsing anyone..

    they are going whole hog after those votes and IMHO not doing anything to get the votes of more than half the base...

    Parent

    And how many people (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by janarchy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:00:26 PM EST
    are going to be turned off. The GoP made a lot of rational people leave the party because of their pandering to the Evangelicals. Now the Dems are just doing the same thing. Religion should be a private, personal decision, not used as the selling point for any candidate.

    Parent
    Very problematic (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:06:36 PM EST
    It would be nice if the religious groups could have their own party, but they know they can't win until we change that pesky separation of church and state rule.

    What bothers me most is how willingly the democratic party leadership, in unison with the presumptive candidate, have embraced this effort and are incorporating so much religion into the convention.

    We buy it, we have only ourselves to blame when things go seriously wrong.


    Parent

    If you mean they're not trying to get (none / 0) (#200)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:26:13 PM EST
    Hillary supporters on board, what else can they do right now except ask?  I've asked twice today (and a few other times in the past) what Obama can do to win Hill supporters' votes, and no one answered yet, except to say there's nothing that can be done.  The only responses have been along the lines of "forget it, ain't gonna happen. won't ever vote for him," etc.  

    I think going after the young evangelical vote is smart.  If we can reach them before they're indoctrinated by hateful talk radio and TV pundits with canned anti-liberal sound bites, then they'll help our party, not hurt it.  I'd rather they were Democrats trying to stop abortions than Republicans voting for Bush/McSame who lie to them but who have no intention of lowering the number of abortions and losing their political anti-left clout.  

    Parent

    They are praying now (5.00 / 3) (#156)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:05:25 PM EST
    Praying for Obama to be President. Oy.

    Parent
    I saw that (5.00 / 5) (#165)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:10:01 PM EST
    I don't think I have ever, in all my years of watching these conventions, ever heard a nominee's name mentioned in the opening convocation.

    Not to mention I noticed with a very personal interest that GLBT people were left out of the diversity of the delegates. Everything was mentioned EXACPT sexual orientation. I'm miffed. First time that has happened since 1992 as well.

    Parent

    Leah Daughtry is a (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:16:04 PM EST
    very close friend of Obama. I was most surprised when I learned her of convention chair title because she is a religious leader rather than a party leader.

    Parent
    Didn't Pelosi (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:24:50 PM EST
    Comment that she thanked God for sending us our leader, Obama! (There was a quote yesterday on that and I almost lost it completely). I remember hearing my neighbor say the same thing about GWB in 2000. And look how well that's turned out.

    Parent
    Do you know about the "western strategy" (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by BernieO on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:13:46 PM EST
    I heard it discussed today on NPR's Fresh Air. I then read the article by Ryan Lizza in the New Yorker. It confirmed some of my worst fears about the western strategy that I keep hearing Axelrod/Obama and Dean are all about. The idea is to give up on the South because of all the social conservatives (even though northerners are moving here in droves) and focus on western states like Colorado, New Mexico, etc. (especially the cities). The article says that this will change the party from pesky things like worker protection, universal health care, the have-nots,social justice,and AFRICAN AMERICANS in favor of small business, energy independence, reducing global warming, and Hispanics.

    Call me crazy but it seems to me there aren't enough people in those state to make this a winning strategy, especially if you abandon your core values and lose your old supporters.

    No wonder these guys want to oust the Clintons and their supporters! I guess they are just using all those African Americans in order to take over, but if Lizza is right they sure don't care about that community's issues. If they succeed, there will be no party that represents the poor, minorities (since Hispanics are a growing group they won't be a true minority for long) and those who are marginalized for any number of other reasons. Check out the article and spread the word! We need to stop this lunacy now.

    What (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:29:34 PM EST
    these clowns need to realize is that Dem economic policies are much more popular in the south than in a lot of other places in the country.

    We may win in the west but the margins to overcome there are larger than many southern states. How many points did Kerry lose NC or GA by? How many did he lose MT or UT by? You see what I mean.

    Parent

    And in this election, (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Landulph on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:56:04 PM EST
    the West is McCain's home turf, especially if he picks the Mormon Romney as his VP. It also seems like the Obama camp is writing off Ohio as well. Doesn't seem too smart.

    And didn't we hear in the primaries how a massive AA turnout was going to turn the Deep South blue? How quickly things change . . .

    In this particular election, a Midwest/Border South strategy (y'know, states that actually have more than 4 EVs apiece) that Hillary would have employed seems to make far more sense.

    Parent

    Quickly is right (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:05:11 PM EST
    I'm in NC, and nobody mentions Obama turning NC blue anymore. I guess we are pretending they never said that because I didn't notice here or most other places (including the msm) the fact that Obama has stopped even running ads in NC.

    Parent
    Did he (none / 0) (#177)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:14:48 PM EST
    run ads there?

    He was running ads here in GA. I don't know if he's pulled them or not.

    Parent

    It seems like (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by Monda on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:06:28 PM EST
    the Obama camp is writing off many states.  I don't know whoever dreamed up the South being in play, considering that Obama is a Northener.  
    Like you said, if McCain picks Romney, the West is a big "if" for the Dems.  Again, what's the strategy here?

    PS: Been away from the blog after the primary, glad to be back.  

    Parent

    What can (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:18:13 PM EST
    I say but the party is being run by a bunch of clowns. Brazille is a clown. Dean is a clown. Our presidential ticket stinks.

    This whole strategy is LONG TERM. And you can't use a presidential race to test market an experimental theory which is what they are doing.

    Romney could do more than change the numbers in the west. He could put NH and maybe another NE state into play. If he picks him, watch out.

    Parent

    What really bothers me (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by BernieO on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:18:17 PM EST
    is the party turning our backs on the poor, on social justice, etc. just to woo the western states. It isn't about strategy, but basic principles.

    So many in the party constantly complained that Bill was too centrist, too "DLC" but Bill's policies were successful in bettering the lot of the poor. Both he and Hillary are willing to consider new means but they never abandon the real ends - expanding opportunity, fairness, etc. This new approach is all about pleasing the upper middle class, especially the "new economy" workers in high tech, etc. But these people were already Democrats. If this "western strategy" succeeds there will be nothing left of the Democratic Party. It will just be Republican without the religion (if you accept that conservatives can turn their back on the poor and still be considered Christian). But it does explain the desperate need to erase the Clinton's legacy and influence.

    Parent

    1950's Republicans? (none / 0) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:10:46 PM EST
    Naw, more like 1980's republicans. The pandering to evangelicals. The blame the government attitude etc. Eisenhower Republicans would be a dream compared to these clowns. But I do know what you mean--the country club republicans and yes, they seem to be aspiring to that.

    Parent
    Howard Dean spoke (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:07 PM EST
    to it yesterday. He says they are continuing the "50 State" but the focus for this is to get the western states that typically go Red. He claimed they thought they would even be able to get AZ. (History of AZ would tell otherwise, of course.)

    It's more of the same Howard Dean, Donna Brazile, new party of politics. They were able to game things in the primary because it was inside their sphere of influence. The GE seems more than they can handle, though.


    Parent

    LOL Dean! go for OH, PA!! not AZ NM NV!! (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by jedimom on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:08:34 PM EST
    I am in AZ and can I say to the Chairman's suggestion (that it would go blue this yr):

    BWAAHAAHA!!

    Not happenin' no way no how

    I helped turn us blue for the Big Dawg but no can do this time around.

    We have an affirmative action ban on our ballot, has Dean ever been to AZ?

    Parent

    I've never found Ryan to be all that (none / 0) (#48)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:21:06 PM EST
    smart.

    The article says that this will change the party from pesky things like worker protection, universal health care, the have-nots,social justice,and AFRICAN AMERICANS in favor of small business, energy independence, reducing global warming, and Hispanics.

    We don't need to through over one in favor of the other. We simply can add to our blank small business, energy independence, reducing global warming, and Hispanics. No need to get rid of anything.

    Parent

    Denver wasn't a random pick for host. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:25:24 PM EST
    Write off the South and go West is the idea. It certainly doesn't seem wise in the short-term but maybe some groundwork is being laid for the future. People are moving West in good numbers so who knows?

    Parent
    Whistling Past Dixie -Tom Schaller (none / 0) (#84)
    by Katherine Graham Cracker on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:38:29 PM EST
    Whistling Past Dixie

    I thought the Dean 50 state strategy did pretty well for Democrats in 2006.

    Parent

    But not much for Democrats since (5.00 / 0) (#178)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:15:02 PM EST
    because they failed to use the leverage the wins got them to act like Democrats.

    Parent
    Jeffrey Toobin (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:15:18 PM EST
    I think Toobin is an amazing legal expert and writer, and it's great to find out that you, Jeralyn, and Jeffrey are pals.

    However, he disappointed me greatly by following the lead of those two donkeys -- Jack Cafferty and Gloria Borger -- during the panel discussions on CNN's Situation Room, and echoed the hateful rhetoric against Hillary during Primary night coverage.

    As I've stopped watching all primetime cable news shows till the end of this election, I've not been able to see if Toobin has stopped his nonsense.

    I'm really hoping his despicable behavior was not indicative of his true beliefs and character, but of the pressures he faced to be just like the other clowns on CNN, and follow the hate-Hillary narrative set by the network's execs.

    Please tell him how we feel (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by MichaelGale on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:27:51 PM EST
    WE admire and respect him for his writing, buy his books and reflect on his conclusions. However we ere disappointed that he became a pundit in re to Clinton. Should use "I" .....I think of him as being above the sensationalists and narcissistic egos on political talk shows.

    Parent
    Well, Toobin ... (none / 0) (#144)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:00:21 PM EST
    says a lot of problematic things.

    But just as pols are pols.  Lawyers are lawyers.  And pundits are pundits.

    And as Groucho Marx said:

    Well, Art is Art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water. And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now you tell me what you know.


    Parent
    You weren't going to see this on NBC (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:20:20 PM EST
    and its Olympics coverage.  Nope - gotta get it from Novosti:  

    a portly, middle-aged man (a foreigner)attempted to disrupt the equestrian show jumping competition by prancing like a horse about the ring "dressed in women's underwear and a ballet tutu."

    Police quickly intervened but it took a couple tries to bring Wilbur back to the stable.

    Witnesses said he appeared sober.

    Sober, compared to what, exactly?

    He could add some excitement (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:25:06 PM EST
    to the Dem convention.  Has he been released in time to take a flight to Denver?

    But I'm greatly enjoying on C-Span the New York delegation event.  The people who know Clinton best know what's what.  Schumer ran out of adjectives, but only after a dozen or so glowing ones.

    Parent

    I dunno - the event he "disrupted" was (none / 0) (#88)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:40:08 PM EST
    Thursday, so if he put the spurs to it, he might have made it over hill and over dale, having hit the dusty trail, and be whinnying at the (baggage) corral in Denver's airport by now, ass-uming they didn't decide to quarantine him for Equine flu or something.

    Surely he'd like to be there, with bells on.

    I know:  stories like this and my bad punning, sleigh me and you too.

    And the caissons go rolling along.....

    Parent

    LOL, thanks for the laugh.... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:27:11 PM EST
    here's my contribution.

    Puppy scares off three bears!

    Parent

    thanks a lot, Maria (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by ccpup on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:53:19 PM EST
    Now you've got my two pups -- a 3 year old Norwich Terrier and a very active, spry 11 year old miniDachshund -- all fired up to go out and kick some bear butt.

    Doesn't matter to them that we live in NYC, far from anyplace where they'd find a bear -- that's not counting those hairy-chested, big hearted brutes who hang out in Chelsea and call themselves "bears" --, my city pups been "inspired" and I blame you.

    Grrrrrrrrrr ... oops, now they want to kick MY butt!  Whoops.

    Parent

    bears in NJ (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by jedimom on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:03:14 PM EST
    Speaking of bears in NJ, I have been dying to ask each time I hear this kind of thing..

    what is happening with the bears in Jersey?! All my years in NYC there werent constant streams of bear invaded suburbia stories. Have the suburbs encroached on bear territory?

    Are bears running out of food, deforestation? Does the legislature of NJ have a bear ranging area study underway with Dept of Interior?

    ahh my NRDC WWF memberships are showing, LOL LOL

    The fact that I, tree hugger Queen, am not voting Obama should be a signal to the leadership but there are none so blind as those that will not see.

    Parent

    Lots of bear sightings in Mass. this summer (none / 0) (#164)
    by Valhalla on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:09:16 PM EST
    and last summer.  Maybe they are refugee NJ bears?

    Parent
    Bear vs. Cow (none / 0) (#94)
    by trublueCO on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:43:18 PM EST
    Along the same line...a cow chased a bear out of its favorite apple tree!

    Link

    Parent

    Good one! (none / 0) (#81)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:35:20 PM EST


    Parent
    The Boston Herald (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by cmugirl on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:29:20 PM EST
    An op-ed piece notes that the press pool in Denver is taking bets on how many times Michelle Obama will say she's proud of her country in her speech tonight.

    Link

    I think the over-under is 12.

    Maybe I should run out for beer (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by Fabian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:33:42 PM EST
    so I can working on my drinking game!

    Parent
    Can you bet parlays... (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Dadler on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:38:51 PM EST
    ...on the number of times God gets mentioned by speakers today?

    Can you even imagine an atheist or agnostic, or even someone who said, proudly, they are a constitution thumping humanist being given any prominent speaking position?

    I mean, come on, so many of the words of Jesus are entirely progressive, but all that seems to matter today is he'll be coming down from the clouds to condemn all the unbelievers to hell.

    Rich man, camel, eye of the needle...not a chance.

    Sigh.

    Parent

    jesus cannot come (none / 0) (#117)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:13 PM EST
    unless Mohammed gives him permission.  

    Parent
    Ali? (none / 0) (#167)
    by Dadler on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:11:12 PM EST
    Damn, that'd be cool.

    Parent
    Sounds Like A Bonafide Challenge (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:44:51 PM EST
    No doubt, she'll be out to prove something tonight.

    I'd also like to add a few more challenges for a shot-drinking game. Everytime someone says one of the following, throw one back:

    • "son a of single mother"
    • "food stamps"
    • "humble beginnings"
    • "community service"
    • "worked his way up"

    I must disclose that I will not be watching any of the convention coverage tonight so I won't be participating the game. However, we can have a similar drinking game for Hillary's and Bill's speeches (which I'll be watching.)

    And then on Thursday, we can all haul our drunk butts to the nearest medical centers to get our livers flushed. :) I mean, there's nothing that we'd be missing on Thursday night right?

    Parent

    Ah, Jim (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by cmugirl on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:46:48 PM EST
    And then on Thursday, we can all haul our drunk butts to the nearest medical centers to get our livers flushed. :) I mean, there's nothing that we'd be missing on Thursday night right?

    There's college football.  I'm sure we could find a sports bar here in DC with plenty of room! :)

    Parent

    Oh yes, totally forgot about that (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by JimWash08 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:54:46 PM EST
    I guess the liver flushing will have to wait till Friday -- unless there are some possible challenges during McCain's Veep-introduction. Hehe. Endless possibilities.

    Parent
    Reaching out (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:45:18 PM EST
    I have no problem in reaching out to any group provided it doesn't compromise the party's position on key issues. I jusy don't believe that there are that many evangelicals that will support a party that supports gay rights or abortion. I also don't think the majority of Democrat's support abstinence only programs, faith based initiatives and school vouchers.

    McCain has sort of neutralized the issue of the environment by taking a more moderate stand than Bush.

    Obama (5.00 / 6) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:57:52 PM EST
    supports faith based initiatives even to the point of want to make it a cabinet level position. Also give it tons more money. I don't like it. It's already been proven to be a massively corrupt program.

    Parent
    Obey of WI (5.00 / 3) (#155)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:05:14 PM EST
    Increased the budget for the abstinence only program too. That's why I want a clarification on what the Dem's stand for. I'm beginning to wonder. That program has been a complete failure. People have been having sex since there were people to have it with. And they'll continue until no one is left. The money should be spent on educating them on protecting themselves.

    Parent
    Abstinence - only (none / 0) (#191)
    by CST on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:20:21 PM EST
    This is where the candidates stand.  Obama doesn't support abstinence-only education.  McCain does.  Remember how Obama got in trouble for saying he didn't want his daughters "punished" with a baby - that was in reference to sex-ed.  Or how he thinks we should have sex-ed much earlier.

    Parent
    moderate stand (none / 0) (#149)
    by Jgarza on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:02:27 PM EST
    If you call admiting global warming is a problem a moderate stand.  As far as policy goes he abandoned cap and trade, so it will be like Bush admitting we are addicted to oil... and then doing nothing about it.

    Maybe its in his psychological plan though.  He will deal with it and the economy with therapy.

    Parent

    I'm not defending (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by mmc9431 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:12:42 PM EST
    McCain's policies. But he at least is acknowledging that it exists which is a far cry from Bush. This issue, the economy and energy should be issues that the Democrat's win hands down. Unfortunately either the Dem's aren't making the case loud enough or people aren't listening.

    Parent
    will any other faiths (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:50:11 PM EST
    have an opportunity to close with prayer such as muslim, mormon, buddhist etc?  Or is this a Jesus only affair?

    Hillary (1.75 / 4) (#174)
    by pixelpusher on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:14:11 PM EST
    Hillary got some bad press in the NY Times for all but elbowing her governor, Dave Paterson, out of the way at the NY delegation meeting.  Paterson was supposed to speak, but she went first and used up all his time.  Way to piss off your diehard black supporters, girl.

    Paterson is one of the few Dems who will emerge standing when all of the Obama-Clinton dust clears, all this sound and fury signifying nothing.  When the dinosaurs all fall, the little mammals underfoot will start evolving...

    Link? (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:18:11 PM EST
    Patterson and Hillary had a great laugh at the event. I saw nothing of the sort.

    Parent
    Nevermind...found it (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:20:58 PM EST
    No bad press for Hillary at all. In fact, she tried to fix it. Research is your friend.

    Via the NYT:

    Mr. Silver spoke first, followed by Mr. Schumer, who was supposed to introduce Mr. Paterson. But the enormous buzz that overtook the room once Mrs. Clinton arrived created some confusion on the dais, and Mr. Paterson was inadvertently passed over.

    The gaffe did not go unnoticed by Mrs. Clinton, who tried to introduce Mr. Paterson once she was done speaking. But by then the crowd had already grown restless and began to disperse. Mr. Paterson then quietly slipped out a back door.

    LINK

    Parent

    Amazing (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Steve M on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:19:52 PM EST
    What is with people trying to make everything into a racial grievance?

    Parent
    Well, when I hear directly from Paterson (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:20:17 PM EST
    that he felt snubbed and dismissed, I'll send him a nice note. For now, the NYT opinion on anything Clinton is of no interest.


    Parent
    Can you read? (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:31:05 PM EST
    She didn't elbow him out. Good Grief, what the heck is in that kool-aid?!

    Parent
    Credentials committee blogging? (none / 0) (#1)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:39:21 PM EST
    Is anyone doing it?  Does anyone know?  

    credentials committee... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by p lukasiak on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:54:52 PM EST
    there is at least one credential committee challenge coming out of Kentucky that I know of (in which a male delegate supporting Clinton was replaced by a female delegate supporting Obama to achieve gender balance --- a violation of the "fair reflection" rule of the Party).  And there have been rumors of other challenges (based on caucus urregularities, some replacements done in Florida, etc.)  

    Parent
    Isn't that already done? (none / 0) (#5)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:44:24 PM EST
    Or was that the rules committee?

    I don't really see what relevance it could have at this point.

    Parent

    Rules Committee Met (none / 0) (#6)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:48:14 PM EST
    Yesterday morning.


    Parent
    Over the weekend. 100% reinstatement. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:51:19 PM EST


    Parent
    I hope you let us (none / 0) (#3)
    by americanincanada on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:40:57 PM EST
    all know about the later event, Jeralyn. I would be anxious to hear your thoughts.

    This has to (none / 0) (#13)
    by JThomas on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 02:55:45 PM EST
    be pretty darn cool to rub elbows with Hillary and the rest of those powerful pols,Jeralyn. I know you are not star-struck, but I would be.
    Say hi to Hillary for us.

    Rubbing elbows..... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:10:53 PM EST
    I wish Hulk Hogan could be there in his prime...dropping elbows.

    Imagine...some speaker running some bull on stage and the Hulkster comes running down the aisle with a clothesline and drops the patented elbow.  That must see tv.

    I mean its basically professional wrestling anyway, may as well go all the way:)

    "Whatcha gonna do Nancy Pelosi...when Hulkamania runs wild on you!"

    Sun god knows we could use a real American, to fight for the rights of everyman.

    Parent

    We absolutely need to reach out (none / 0) (#40)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:16:21 PM EST
    to Evangelicals. They need to be made to understand that Democrats aren't their enemy. This is a no different strategy than the Republicons going after the AA segment of the Democratic party. Except we really aren't their enemy.

    Oh, and the GOP is not their friend. (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Fabian on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:26:18 PM EST
    Might want to point that out too.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:31:51 PM EST
    we do not need to reach out to evangelicals. There are lots of votes to be gotten from mainstream religions. Evangelicals are mostly beholden to the far right. Forget about what Obama is doing. He's failing. Appeal to them based on economics and let the chips fall where they may.

    Parent
    Please explain this to me: (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by Landulph on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:59:30 PM EST
    blue-collar swing voters in purple states=bad

    conservative evangelicals in ultra-red states=good

    Oh, wait--I remember! The first group voted for someone named Clinton in the primaries! Ah, the "New Coalition" . . .

    It sure seems like the Democrats are becoming the party of "Praise the Lord" instead of the New Deal. That is NOT a good thing.

    Parent

    polls (5.00 / 2) (#173)
    by jedimom on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:13:09 PM EST
    IIRC recent polling shows over 50% of the electorate including GOP do NOT want God in their government.

    it amazes me that the leadership is playing with their how to win the election circa 2000 playbook.

    They are stuck on this appealing to a new constituency fallacy.

    We will see in November, I predict the loss of the base will answer the "God in Government, let's appeal to the right and down play freedom of choice" clearly, ie with a loss..

    let's take just one slice of the traditional Democratic base that gives us victory:

    women:
    how is simultaneously alienating women by not pandering to them at all, and insulting them as a group while disrespecting Hillary
    and
    then waving metaphorical hangars at them, WHILE pandering to pro life groups a winning strategy?

    answer-it isn't

    Parent

    You are correct, that wouldn't be (none / 0) (#199)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:25:01 PM EST
    a winning strategy. We could, however, show them that although we will not move on the Pro-Choice issue, voting Dem does have other benefits, such as, better economic conditions for all, better health care for all, better government for all. If they still choose not to come along, that's fine. I believe appealing to these folks on these issues that others will also hear that message and join us.

    Parent
    I disagree, there's no reason we (none / 0) (#131)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:56:33 PM EST
    can't at least try to persuade them they, the Evangelicals, have a lot more to gain with Dems than with Repubs.

    Parent
    You don't (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:00:21 PM EST
    realize who you're dealing with here. There's no way they're going to vote for us unless we do a 180 degree flip on lots of issues.

    There are a lot of voters in the center to get. Why pander to the far right?

    Parent

    Sigh. (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Landulph on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:07:48 PM EST
    Because the Obama campaign is run by aliens from a distant galaxy who are deliberately trying to throw this election.

    (It's as good a theory as any.)

    Parent

    You may very well be right. (none / 0) (#185)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:18:25 PM EST
    Why not try though? Couldn't we not demonstrate the advantages of Dems being in charge? Things like, fair pay, better health care options, and the like. Do these things not benefit everyone? If they choose to come along, we've gained allot, at the expensive of Republicons. If they don't join, then we've lost nothing.

    Parent
    I disagree, cutting into the staunch (none / 0) (#159)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:06:31 PM EST
    Republicon base can never be a bad idea. Ultimately, if we can erode that base, things will be much easier for all in the end. The trick will be not selling our souls in the process.

    Parent
    If their goal is to end choice (5.00 / 9) (#77)
    by Joan in VA on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:34:29 PM EST
    and put the bible in school, then they are my enemy. Why be concerned with their perceptions? Do they think we're enemies, really? I don't think of them as enemies but rather as a  group trying to exert undue influence on this country's course. If they want to move away from the Constitution, then it's up to me to push back. Neither the Repubs or the Dems can have it both ways if they want a reliable base.

    Parent
    The only reason I can be civil to (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:46:43 PM EST
    evangelicals IRL is my belief that when they die they will all find out how full of sh!t they are. In the meantime, they need to stay out of my politics.

    Parent
    . . .if they support the Dem platform (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:46:28 PM EST
    and don't know it.  Otherwise, no thanks.  There are enough faux Dems already.  And some are in Denver now.

    Parent
    I think it's an (none / 0) (#120)
    by CST on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:52:34 PM EST
    age and priorities issue.  The younger the evangelical - the more their priorities line up with the Dems.  For example, Bush got booed at a very conservative religious school due to his stance on Iraq and civil liberties.  When asked about issues like "gay rights" the students' response was "who cares, live and let live" more or less.  They don't necessarily agree with it, but it's not one of their priorities.
    I think reaching out to this group is all about bringing those younger evangelicals into the mix.  Letting them know, it's ok to vote Dem for these other reasons.  And hopefully they will stay that way as they get older.

    Parent
    To the extent (5.00 / 6) (#151)
    by Landulph on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:03:43 PM EST
    that this approach causes the Democratic party to muddy its message and become a pale-pink copy of the GOP on social issues, it could do more electoral harm than good. Think of the numbers of affluent women whose economic interests are more in line with the GOP, but vote Dem for pro-choice reasons. Same thing with gays. There are always trade-offs, and you can't be all thing to all people. In trying to appeal to everyone, you run the risk of appealing to NO ONE.

    Parent
    And this is what we need to promote. (none / 0) (#146)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:00:56 PM EST
    They need to understand that we Dems aren't trying to force them to believe the way we or others do. Just as we also must make clear they don't have the right to force others to their positions. And this point of view is in everybody's best interest.

    Parent
    NO WE DON'T (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:49:37 PM EST
    We need to reach out to Clinton supporters and we need to allow this turn of the century religious revival to go ahead and burn itself out like it does every turn of the century....thanks all the same though.

    Parent
    We could do both, no? (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:58:32 PM EST


    Parent
    No. The two are mutually exclusive. n/t (none / 0) (#171)
    by angie on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:12:19 PM EST


    Parent
    We can't reach out to (none / 0) (#175)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:14:19 PM EST
    undecided Dems and the religious right? Why are these things mutually exclusive?

    Parent
    Go read up about what the religious right wants (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by Democratic Cat on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:18:36 PM EST
    Thean think about what the Democratic Party stands for. You tell me if they are compatible.

    Parent
    It's (5.00 / 0) (#196)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:22:24 PM EST
    not that you can't do both it's that the party isn't doing both. Obama is picking evangelicals over 1/2 the democratic party.

    Parent
    And that is the wrong approach. (none / 0) (#202)
    by Radix on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 04:27:53 PM EST
    Obama has to do both, there are no other options here.

    Parent
    You and Toobin (none / 0) (#139)
    by Jgarza on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 03:59:11 PM EST
    Thats a great pic.   He is one of my fav alanlysts.  He has been more liberal lately.  I give you credit!

    88th anniversary of the 19th ammendment? (none / 0) (#211)
    by reynwrap582 on Mon Aug 25, 2008 at 06:23:41 PM EST
    You lawyers will find any reason to party, eh?

    Monday Night's Convention Schedule and Open Thread | 204 comments (204 topical)