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Palin: The Right Reasons She's Wrong for the Job

Again, we are not discussing Gov. Sarah Palin's family issues. Zero tolerance policy.

But, I won't be silenced from discussing reasons to oppose her and the Republican party.

More...

If McCain had picked any of the far more experienced candidates on his short list, they would have come fully equipped with a long paper trail implicating them in the horror show that is the Republican Party of the last eight years.

Palin has barely left a footprint on the GOP scene. And the McCain camp immediately scrubbed one of the few marks -- an ad on her campaign website featuring an endorsement from newly indicted Alaska Senator Ted Stevens. So with a party brand as damaged as the GOP's is right now, lack of experience isn't a bug, it's a feature.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Thank you! (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Birmingham Blues on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:17:52 PM EST
    And I hope others will follow your example.

    OMG: TL is linking to MoDo one day (5.00 / 9) (#41)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:11:06 PM EST
    and to HuffPo the next.

    If either of those two wanted to see a Democratic victory in '08 they wouldn't have whipped Hillary like a rented mule.

    Parent

    As opposed (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Wile ECoyote on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:18:37 PM EST
    to an ultra left wing socialist cabal.  Those suckers don't exist.

    I went to one of the meetings ... (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:22:41 PM EST
    of that cabal.  They served the white wine at 49 degrees.

    I had to leave.

    Barbarians.

    ;)

    Seriously, left wingers in America aren't great at the cabal thing.  They aren't even good at the creating loose groupings.

    Parent

    Was that you? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:54:37 PM EST
    Yes, that was me ... (none / 0) (#36)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:07:21 PM EST
    sorry about the scene.

    But 49 degrees!?!

    What were you thinking?

    ;)

    Parent

    At least you weren't complaining about the (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:19:18 PM EST
    Boones' Farm... sigh

    Parent
    Hey (none / 0) (#74)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:55:35 PM EST
    As a social liberal but a fiscal conservative, I broke my wine drinking virginity with strawberry hill at $1.09 a bottle with an environmentally friendly recyclable screw off cap.

    Let's not degrade the long ago maturation process of this ecologically sound minded, non-elitist, non-chardonnay sipping, non-latte drinking liberal, who only wishes he had invested those $1.09 a bottle funds in Boones Farm stock instead of partaking in the Friday night ritual of a long distance runner's less than scientific rehydration process.

    Parent

    Reading that hurts worse (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:14:32 PM EST
    than a Boones Farm hangover!

    Excedrin please!

    Parent

    Ha Ha (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:20:51 PM EST
    Which is precisely what it would do to me...lol

    Gotta love a good run on sentence to simulate a Boones Farm hangover.

    Parent

    Scarborough and Buchanan riff on (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by byteb on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:19:15 PM EST
    why Palin would be the wrong choice and is not ready to CinC compared to Obama. This is just before McCain picked Palin. It's interesting to see two conservatives react honestly to the very idea of Palin as VP.

    YouTube video:
    http://tinyurl.com/55tkel

    Those Whoi Have Opposed Palin, as With McCain (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:22:21 PM EST
    Have overwhelmingly done so for ideological reasons, and rightfully so.  She's as pure a social con as W.  Her support for the neocons and the ecocons is also bedrock.

    Palin's selection was surely more than one thing, but one prominent thing it definitely was, was to mock people concerned with women's rights, with the added cynical bonus that a few women's rights supporters might actually allow themselves to be "moved" by Palin's selection.  

    Palin herself?  She's got to be laughing at certain "women's rights advocates."  Laughing, perhaps, all the way to getting Supreme Court nominations?  

    Women's rights (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:42:09 PM EST
    are only for Democrats?  I didn't know that.  Thanks!


    Parent
    When compared to its Status in the Party of McCain (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:48:30 PM EST
    Women's Rights come across as a Sacred Tenet in the Democratic Party.

    When you're quite finished letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, don't forget to

    Stay alert, and stay with Fox.


    Parent

    With respect, I think it may be (5.00 / 5) (#77)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:10:34 PM EST
    questionable just how sacred those tenets are within the Democratic Party, considering how easily they were abandoned when the power structure's territory was encroached upon...by a woman.

    A party that holds those tenets sacred would have - should have - stood up for its female candidate and not tolerated any of its candidates engaging in decidedly anti-feminist rhetoric.

    Just sayin'  

    Parent

    I said by comparison with the GOP, first of all (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:58:10 PM EST
    I am so thankful that, as angry as I became at times during the Primary, I never went so far as to believe that the Democratic Party and the GOP were indistinguishable on womens' rights.

    And second of all, on the Issues the Democratic Party could be better, but still protects, for example, the pro-choice plank of its platform.  But I guess that doesn't matter anymore either, to people all bugged out over the Primary.

    Jyst sayin'


    Parent

    Explain the DNC pushing Casey (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:58:51 PM EST
    in Pennsylvania.

    Parent
    Or how about (none / 0) (#137)
    by Brookhaven on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 06:31:56 PM EST
    those blue Dog Dems like Travis Childers from Mississippi.  

    Ah, the fiftee state strategy rolls along.  Thanks again, Dean.  The Dems really need to stop the bs about choice when they finance Dems who are anti-choice.  It makes them into hypocrites and fools.  

    If someone cannot understand that, then how would we all feel if they financed Dems in Mississippi who were against affirmative action which is supposed to benefit AA's.  


    Parent

    on Palin (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by christinep on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:22:35 PM EST
    I'm a life-long Democrat--40yrs active involvement. One might say: A yellow-dog Democrat. As a woman who earned her law degree in 1970, I do understand a bit about discrimination and stereotyping. (Thats putting it mildly!) The past year, especially, brought a lot of the interred memories back again. This is a mind and heart thing for me. Since I've essentially lived politics in one way or another most of my life--oh, as an aside, my husband taught political science, ran for office, managed campaigns, etc.--I believe that the difference between emotional and intellectual responses are relatively clear to me.  In the context of those disclosures: (1) Palin is fascinating, intriguing, compelling. A sophisticated Annie Oakley. A quintessential western woman with a lot of spunk--characteristics that remind me of some longtime friends. A woman with characteristics other than an ideologue. (2) Yes, I'm quite aware of Supreme Court ramifications with the McCain team. I've made the SCt argument for years. As for the personal belief level, it strikes me as offensive when either end of the political spectrum demands total adherence -- especially in the area of very personal & fundamental matters pertaining to women. (Both sides do seem to have a tendency to overstate their purity in very didactic ways when it comes to choice. IMO.) (3) Since I've never voted Republican before, I'll probably stay completely within the Democratic ambit again. But, I am trying to listen to what she has to say. To put it bluntly: Is she a loon or a powerful individual? I hope that when we completely join the issues here, we attack based on those issues. It will only hurt all of us to go down the road of demolition based primarily upon acceptable gender roles.

    Parent
    she may be powerful . . . (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by A DC Wonk on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:39:11 PM EST
    ...but who cares?

    Among other things: she's against abortion, Roe v Wade, and in favor of abstinence-only education (she of all people ought to know that doesn't work)

    She sued the Bush Admin for listing polar bears as endangered species, she thinks climate change -- if it exists -- is not man-made, and she's in favor of teaching creationism in schools.

    We've seen this model before (Falwell, Focus on the Family, etc.) -- do we really want those folks with those kinds of views wielding power?

    Parent

    I am not Goign Down that Road (none / 0) (#104)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:34:32 PM EST
    "It will only hurt all of us to go down the road of demolition based primarily upon acceptable gender roles"

    This is a straw man.  And a really weird one at that, considering that all I have written about on these boards is her policy positions. I don;t give a rat's patooty that she is a woman, except that it makes me sad that her womanhood has led some to make comments like this:

    Palin is fascinating, intriguing, compelling. A sophisticated Annie Oakley. A quintessential western woman with a lot of spunk--characteristics that remind me of some longtime friends. A woman with characteristics other than an ideologue.

    God, she's got to be laughing at all of this.  What a moratorium for identity politics this whole excuse for a demcoratic election has turned out to be. She can get away with holding ALL of the most extreme policy positions of her Party, and because she's a woman, she's "a sophisticated Annie Oakley."  No.  She is much more like John McCain, Tom Coburn, Rick Santorum.

    But, I am trying to listen to what she has to say. To put it bluntly: Is she a loon or a powerful individual?

    Good.  If you listen without bias, she won't sound much different than the pols I have named.

    Wow.  If you went by this blog's comment box alone, you'd really think the GOP has pulled it off with this pick.

    Parent

    I don't subscribe (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:19:09 PM EST
    to anybody's gross propaganda, yours or Fox's.  Thanks anyway.

    Parent
    Oh goody (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Dr Molly on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:59:01 PM EST
    The sophomoric insulters are back to elevate the discourse here.

    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#111)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 07:24:27 PM EST
    It is not insulting to assert that the Democratic Party is no better than the GOP on womens' rights.  

    But (gasp!!!) it is insulting to call out those who make such assertions, for playing right into the hands of the interests that Fox, for example, serves so well.

    A lot of people all over the world are dead, and a lot of our national identity is sullied, as a direct consequence of the 2000 election.  The stakes this time at home as well as abroad, with these nutcase GOP standard bearers, couldn't be higher.  The stakes for women couldn't be higher.

    What you are doing is what is insulting.  So, enjoy what is coming, the lot of you.  As long as one of the deliverers of what is coming will be a woman, maybe that will make it better for you.  

    Parent

    We've seen "sullied" before (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by christinep on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:39:40 PM EST
    About "sullied": The Vietnam war caused lots of internal and external sullying. And, as one who developed and organized a peace conference in Denver held before the current Iraq mess-of-a-war got underway, I understand "sullying." What you may need to understand is that you are not the only one who understands life and politics. Many of the rest of us humans share strong feelings as well. Even with that, I hope to practice what I profess--some degree of tolerance for others' opionions. As said above, lighten up. People can share beliefs and concerns and have different thoughts about how to get desired results. Trust the discourse a bit. We shouldn't be talking about commanded thoughts and salutes to be a real liberal.

    Parent
    pro life or anti choice? (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by 18anapple2 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 07:56:41 PM EST
    Condi..only the second woman to serve as Secretary of State and the first Black woman (and Colin Powell the first Black man )to serve as Secretary of State..credit where credit is due at the least.
    What gets to me is that while we talk of the woman's right to choose we denigrate Palin's choice to be pro life.
    Whether she will foist that choice and is therefore anti choice on the rest of the women is the real question. That should be easily answered ..apparently she has had an opportunity to appoint  a judge to the Alaska court and will soon be appointing another..Jeralyn ,anybody on who that judge is and what his record is?


    Parent
    Her Opposition to Abortion (none / 0) (#128)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:00:36 PM EST
    Is not for Her a Private Matter.  Look at the Platform she's running on.  Look at her statements on the issuem, for Pete's sake.

    God.  What has she done to deserve such special pleading, when she is clearly an ideologue?  She's got to be loving all the defense from this quadrant....

    Parent

    Jeralyn posted this weekend (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:01:36 PM EST
    on Gov. Palin's first nomination for the Alaska Supreme Court.  

    Parent
    I'd agree with you on this: (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Grace on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:57:19 PM EST
    If these present allegations prove well-founded in fact and substance, such woefully misguided and Nixonesque conduct should by all rights disqualify the woman from further consideration for any position of public trust, particularly in a presidential administration.  

    The stickler is that old "Innocent until proven guilty" thing...  

    If it turns out that the allegations are totally unfounded and false, what would you recommend as compensation?  

    Parent

    The irony just won't quit (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by FreakyBeaky on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:30:28 PM EST
    Hillary Clinton's run for the presidential nomination is so threatening to the Democratic party, which generally espouses more gender-friendly positions and ideas, that the center of gravity of the party (not to mention the media and the blogsphere) mobilizes to stop it, exposing deep veins of sexist and reactionary feeling in unexpected places.  This effort succeeds.  They won't even nominate her for veep.

    Nevertheless, Hillary Clinton comes out of it more influential than she's ever been, not least because both the Democratic and Republican parties realize that they need every last one of her voters they can possibly get.

    The Republican party, though deeply reactionary about gender (and everything else), smells an opportunity and nominates Palin for veep.  Palin does not threaten the Republican party the way Clinton threatened the Democratic party, not because the Republican party or its voter base are less sexist, but because she's a right-winger, and all other considerations are secondary.    

    The going has gotten weird.

    Parent

    You never were a lawyer (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:10:33 PM EST
    for the defense, I gather?

    And -- I hope not.  You certainly take "purported" and run with it right past her rights to the stake where you already have the fire going.

    Her rights are our rights, too.  Douse your flames and let the process go forward -- in the hands of those, we can hope, who believe that we all are innocent until proven guilty.

    Parent

    My wife was right! (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by steviez314 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:23:50 PM EST
    Whenver I asked her "how could McCain pick Palin?", she would tell me "don't you understand, he didn't.  He was TOLD to pick her."

    It isn't too much of a stretch to see just how much influence that CNP would have in a McCain administration.

    ANd (4.66 / 9) (#33)
    by tek on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:03:43 PM EST
    you don't think the DNC "picked" Obama and told him to pick Biden?  I don't mind people being partisan and ideological, but let's try to be honest, anyway.

    Parent
    Did the DNC call up 18 milion people and tell (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by steviez314 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:11:53 PM EST
    them to vote for him?  Did they only tell his campaign how the delegates were split by congressional district?

    Please tell me where you read that the DNC told him to pick Biden?

    I will be honest and say that the SDs would have "picked" either candidate, but don't try to tell me that Obama was "picked" by the DNC like the way Palin was "picked" by the religious right.


    Parent

    Actually...... (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by michitucky on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:29:45 PM EST
    There have been numerous reports that he wanted Tim Kaine.....Pressure was put on him by "some" in the Democratic Party to go with Biden.....Dick Durbin spent a significant period of time urging him to go with Biden after the uprising in Georgia.  They reported on this last week during the DNC.

    Parent
    Would you google (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by hairspray on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:13:19 PM EST
    P. Cronin's Caucses and Primaries and read it before you say anything else? Please.

    Parent
    Tek was just banned (1.00 / 0) (#46)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:15:50 PM EST
    for a rabid insult so s/he cannot respond.

    Parent
    Aren't (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:32:27 PM EST
    there better people to make the case?

    Probably, but it is easier to pick the ones (4.40 / 5) (#18)
    by PssttCmere08 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:46:11 PM EST
    that are saying what you want them to say.

    Parent
    They're just trying to put lipstick on a pig (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by MyLeftMind on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:35:00 PM EST
    The pig is the GOP, not Palin.  She's the lipstick.  They can't keep people watching McSame for more than a few minutes before they flip channels.  Their policies are sinking them as fast as they're sinking America.  A young, good looking woman is their solution.  Media spotlight.  If Aaarrrnold can get elected Gov of CA in a popularity contest, Palin should be able to garner them some fluff votes, or at least a little attention this fall.  But sooner or later, moderate Repubs and Indies will realize she has no track record yet, but her roots and her beliefs are right in tune with the out-of-control base that has wrecked the once proud GOP.

    Republicans need to own up to their party being hijacked before they can reinvent themselves into something believable again.  But it's not happening this election cycle.  


    Too funny (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by tek on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:05:18 PM EST
    this is my aphorism for the Dems and Obama, but whatever, I know, I know, he IS the nominee.

    Parent
    Obama - to answer your question (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by IndiDemGirl on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:58:48 PM EST
    McCain is hoping that his "concern" about Gustav will make us all forget his partying with Bush while New Orleans was flooding. It won't.

    And, regarding the polls, the Palin pick shows us much more about the state of the race than does a poll.  Why does a candidate take such a huge risk when naming a VP?  Because his internal polling/focus groups showed a much bleaker picture than did these national polls.

    And you'd better read the poll internals because since Obama's speech and McCain's VP pick the undecideds are swinging to Obama.  

    Parent

    Stockholm Syndrome (none / 0) (#83)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:29:31 PM EST
    has previously been banned as another commenter. That account is now vaporized and all comments deleted.

    Parent
    Excellent choice not (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by TomP on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:39:01 PM EST
    to discuss family issues.

    Palin is very inexperienced and shows little to think she could lead this nation if McCain died in office.  

    As a choice by McCain, it shows true lack of judgment.  

    Katha Pollit (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by bjorn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:41:00 PM EST
    misses the mark.  It seems pretty clear by now that the pick was for evangelicals and white men, not women nor Hillary women in particular.

    These kinds of pieces are fun sometimes but they don't help win any independents over to the cause.  

    These kinds of pieces are designed to make dems feel superior and alienate republicans.  It would be more helpful to see some pieces on what Palin's strengths might be and how to beat her and McCain given those strengths.  

    How do we convince white working class men to vote for Obama and not against Palin?  How do we win over evangelicals?  I think Obama understands this better than Huffington, Pollit, and other less known bloggers and left wingers.  

    Actually, the one good thing all these negative pieces do for me is make me feel good about voting for Obama because he is handling it all so well, so far.  

    I guess you could argue these folks do it so Obama doesn't have to...they are trying to drive up Palin's negatives, I get that, but I still think their energy is better spent trying to figure out how to get more people to vote for Obama, not how to get more people to dislike Palin.

    I think Palin is wrong on the issues ... (5.00 / 4) (#15)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:43:23 PM EST
    and wrong for the country.

    But that doesn't mean I can't recognize that she has the potential of being a potent national political figure.  And was a smart choice for McCain even with her baggage, perhaps because of baggage.

    I think some on the left want to destroy her, because they realize even if McCain loses he may be creating a new Republican superstar.

    That could be correct thinking.  But I think you have to be careful.  And maybe it would be wise to wait at least a week before deciding on the smartest way to do this.

    But one thing I know now:  Her political positions aren't it.  They're, like it or not, an asset.  

    I agree... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Dawn Davenport on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:59:20 PM EST
    ...and I'm not sure why Palin is being used as the scapegoat for the as-abhorrent-as-usual Republican platform.

    Palin is a wrong choice for people who want to move the country forward from the last 8 years of horrible government--but then so are McCain and every other Republican who stands behind the platform. Why not focus on the party as a whole, rather than a vice presidential choice who quite predictably hews to the party's far-right philosophy?

    As for Arianna's quote, she seems to be peeved that Palin hasn't left the kind of paper trail that can be used against her, as would have been the case with other potential nominees. That sounds more like a problem for the Democrats than the Republicans, and reinforces the contention that the hyper-focus on Palin the Person is misguided, and should instead be directed at the Republican ticket as a whole.

    Parent

    A superstar? (none / 0) (#90)
    by prose on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:55:58 PM EST
    Most of us wikipedia'd her 3 days ago.  Let's hold off on praising her giftedness until we learn more about her.

    Parent
    Wouldn't it be nice (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:13:22 PM EST
    if we held off on the attacks, too -- and for the same reason.

    Parent
    GOP base not as large (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:44:17 PM EST
    That is an interesting point about the fact that her lack of experience means she has no paper trail. Although she sort of does have some issues. I just think this is a gimmick that McCain hopes will give him a boost. We'll know if it does in a couple of months. I know if the Democrats simply stick with the issues and hammer home how McCain and Palin will continue the Bush policies I think the Democrats will win. Plus if Palin is only meant to fire up the GOP base I am not sure that base is as large as it was a while back.

    She has a paper trail, although somebody is (none / 0) (#100)
    by Christy1947 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:19:04 PM EST
    trying to erase it on the Internet, a shocking number of potentially interesting Googles turn out suddenly to be not available. But it's there. I wish I could do links well, but I can't so I don't and get yelled at for it,  and it's deeply buried, but it is definitely there. The trick is to find a first mention of an issue and keep going after it, in odd links. Start with the archives of the major Ak newspapers in Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau and Sitka, but there are others that are smaller but have interesting things. the Legislature also has its own site with various news and releases so you can trace legislative history of the political sort.

    And it's worth doing. If you are a person who believes a female candidate should be judged on the merits and not the silly stuff, it's worth the effort to dig and find the merits.

    A word to the easily battered though. AK's political world is somewhat different and they do have the sense there that the rest of us do not and cannot understand what is going on up there, and are not shy about saying it. Don't let that bother you but settle in for the two hour hunt for almost anything. But keep hunting.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 10) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:45:41 PM EST
    Not even Obama's example will silence a lot of people.

    I find it fascinating that folks have not paid attention to the fact that Obama/Biden has said virtually nothing about Palin.

    But as you say, you will not be silenced, no matter what.

    Me, I prefer to go after John McCain as he runs for Bush's Third Term.

    But I have said enough on this point.

    I'll be taking a few days off from the site as, frankly, I am rather bored with the Palin fixation, and the anti- talking about Palin fixation I have been on.

    All yours J. All Palin, all the time. Go for it.    

    Collapse of liberal blogosphere (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Polkan on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:51:03 PM EST
    BTD - please reconsider. It's inevitable that people would react the way they do. These are partisan blogs and everyone is emotionally invested. I don't want to have to miss your posts.

    Parent
    I'll write about McCain's speech (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:54:00 PM EST
    Should be safe that day I think.


    Parent
    Cool, I won't be writing or watching (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:56:15 PM EST
    it. Glad you will.

    Parent
    Come baaaaaccckk! (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by Grace on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:00:22 PM EST
    There should be more Republican convention news this week, aside from McCain's speech.  Isn't someone supposed to talk later today?  

    I heard some of the delegates already decided to leave the convention.  Apparently some of them live where the hurricane is and want to go home instead of staying.    

    Parent

    BTD frequently takes a few days off (5.00 / 0) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:55:17 PM EST
    He'll be back when he's ready. Let him be. This isn't a job, it's a hobby for both of us.

    And Palin won't be the main topic much longer, the Mainstream Media will get up to speed pretty quick. McCain's not fooling anyone.

    Parent

    apparently you and I (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by DandyTIger on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:54:19 PM EST
    and others saying this are concern trolls now. I'm not concerned any more. I say go for her on her pastor, her experience, etc. Even her policies (vs. just McCain's policies and focus on him as Bush). It's all good.

    Parent
    Obama may have to start ... (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:22:31 PM EST
    talking about Palin if he wants to get on the news any time in the next few weeks.

    ;)

    Parent

    This comment probably (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:40:38 PM EST
    will be deleted, too.  But thanks for continuing to comment.  It helps me cut through the virtual clutter -- as my life is getting more complicated by the moment by actual clutter.  (Organizing my school bag for the big first day, just like first-graders do.:-)

    Parent
    Don't know if I should laugh or cry, so (5.00 / 4) (#88)
    by JavaCityPal on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:47:42 PM EST
    I guess I'll do both.

    The Democrats have long be unjustly accused of being negative campaigners. Maybe I just wasn't listening, but I always thought they stayed more to policy and ideas for change than trashing the opponent. It showed me they were sincere about what they were focused on.

    This campaign, starting in the primary, has been mired down in negativity. We don't know what our own candidate stands for because the stump speeches are all about the opponent of the day. He and Biden both stump speeched yesterday and went on and on about what Bush did and McCain will do.

    McCain and Palin also stump speeched yesterday and they went on and on about what they have done and what they hope to do.

    Both speeches were back to back on C-Span.

    This year we really deserve the criticism that ownership of the negative campaigning is ours.

    I want to hear Obama and Biden and all the blogs tell me what good things Obama and Biden have done and why I should trust them to guide the country out of this mess. I'm listening, they just aren't talking.

    Could we please have some posts about the Obama/Biden political successes and policy plans. Complete with video of a few positive, focused, on point stump speeches?


    Parent

    If you don't confront Palin... (none / 0) (#92)
    by prose on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:57:59 PM EST
    then the "McSame" line is tough to defend.  She was picked as a candidate to shake up the McSame narrative.  Palin is McCain's argument against what you are arguing.  You have to confront that.

    Parent
    Feminist Commentary by Phyllis Chesler (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by FernSidman on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:51:34 PM EST
    The Only Indepenent Feminist Commentary on the Presidential Race

    I am hearing from feminists but I am hearing something other than what the liberal-Democratic or conservative Republican media have to say. I am not at liberty to go into details but here's the essence of what I have been told:

    The Democratic Party leaders, despite their feminist-friendly agenda, did everything they could to destroy Senator Hillary's candidacy. The fact that she is a standard-bearer for Democratic party values and won eighteen million votes made no difference, not only because she came with "baggage," but because she is a woman. This is why the Hillary-ites are so enraged and distraught. They have seen such behavior before from progressive-radical men and women who have said all the right feminist things (or promised future feminist activism) but turned out to be no different than anyone else in terms of misogyny.    

    On the other hand, Senator John's choice of a newcomer and an unknown as his Vice-Presidential pick does not suggest that he understands (as Freud once famously asked) what women or what Hillary's feminist women want. Yes, Palin seems both charming and attractively "kickass" tough; yes, I am already upset by how vicious and sexist the liberal commentators have been about Governor Sarah's candidacy--but c'mon: Would Senator John have picked a male candidate with as little experience on the world stage or does he have different and lower standards for women-only?

    PRESS HERE TO CONTINUE READING
    http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler
     

    As far as Clinton voters go... (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by sj on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:14:53 PM EST
    ... Palin will, I believe, appeal to few of them.  This matters little.  What she DOES do, is make the (in my mind) despicable RW voters happy and draw them to the polls, AND have the potential to keep Dem voters away.

    How?  Really, the Obama camp, and their supporters could very easily fall into the bad habits they acquired during the primaries.  If they do, the misogyny could potentially undo everything both Clintons did to draw disaffected voters back to the party.  I'm not going to vote for that R ticket but the D ticket better be new and improved and live up to the standards and ideals the Clintons laid out during the convention or I may not be voting for them either.  

    And that kills me.  I've been a good, solid Democrat all my life.  Not just my adult life -- it started out as upbringing, but I affirmed it myself when I reached voting age.  But I felt completely left behind during the primaries.  

    Parent

    To SJ (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by christinep on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:55:01 PM EST
    Thank you.

    Parent
    Yes. What she already is doing (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:17:56 PM EST
    is vindicating everything we said about the sexism and misogyny being just that -- not anything that THAT woman deserved all by herself.

    The accusations that we were Vaginal Voters continue here, of course.  But each only proves that the real problem of the Dem Party is the Viagra Voters -- and that they are the ones prone to panic and hysteria.

    Parent

    Thanks so much (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:56:20 PM EST
    for pointing me to her blog.  Her books have been formative for me -- especially when I had to, um, "lawyer up" and get up to speed on what the heck I was facing in a divorce and custody battle.  What I witnessed and experienced was what radicalized me -- and what I needed was what I found in her books, among others.

    I wonder how many lawyers have read Chesler's incredible historical work, Mothers on Trial.  (I can tell which ones here haven't read it -- or entirely discounted it and what it tells us about the systemic problems in our so-called justice system.)

    Parent

    The biggest thing I have found (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by Grace on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:54:39 PM EST
    as a reason to dislike Palin (aside from her obvious right wing social policies) is the fact she filed a lawsuit to take polar bears off the endangered species list.  

    Seriously, I believe polar bears belong on the endangered species list and I'm glad they were added.  

    I'm far more pro-environment than she is.  

    I am too but I think most people's (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by Valhalla on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:33:41 PM EST
    preference for live polar bears will lose to having to empty their wallets every time they have to fill up their gas tanks.

    The best way to win over people is not these simplistic comparisons that are being thrown out (beg pardon, Grace, I'm not talking about your comment).  They appear to be real winners on the surface -- Everybody loves polar bears!  We'll sink Palin with some cute polar bear cubs!' but at the end of the day, when the choice made into a simplistic oil vs bears, the bears will lose.

    It's probably too late to educate anyone now.  The election has reached the stupidity nadir point that all elections do, where little education can go on, only shouting contests.  And the kind of attitude-changing education we need takes years to build, and is helped by a nonpartisan effort.  Al Gore's efforts on the environment are the best paradigm; work like crazy to educate people and don't tie yourself to just one party or party faction.

    In the 80s and 90s the Right started building a network of deep thinkers to create an ideological infrastructure that would be both attractive to, and capable of being imposed on, the United States.  They are extremely disciplined and coordinated.  (I had one of the chief architects as a polysci professor in college).  Up until Bush' mishandling of the war and Katrina, they were quite successful with it.

    The Left has not done the same.  Their counter was the 50-state strategy, which was not an architecture or even a strategy, but a series of tactical decisions designed to place Democrats of any stripe, regardless of motivating ideology, into positions of power.  Now they're in a fight for their lives in a year which should have been a Democratic walk.

    Parent

    The problem with Palin (5.00 / 4) (#68)
    by Grace on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:49:05 PM EST
    is that her anti-environment stance goes deeper than just drilling for oil.  She's for mining and anything else to get resources up and out of Alaska.

    From my viewpoint, I think this is because she wants to get the dollars and business into Alaska, but I'm afraid it will turn pristine wilderness into another toxic pit, just like some of the places we have in the lower 48.    

    Polution in Alaska is an issue, not just Global Warming.  There is a book out by Marla Cone "Silent Snow:  The Slow Poisoning of the Arctic" that focuses on environmental damage being done to Alaska and that region.

    Palin is also for numerous other anti-environmental things like off-roading on federal lands.  She's totally opposite of McCain on these issues so I wonder how they plan to reconcile this?  (For the record, I have no idea how Obama/Biden feel about these things.)        

     

    Parent

    Cheney's energy bill (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by sarahfdavis on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:51:45 PM EST
    Obama voted for it.


    Parent
    Okay. Palin is Out. (none / 0) (#96)
    by bridget on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:00:27 PM EST
    Not that she was ever IN ;-)

    But to file a lawsuit to take polar bears off the endangered species list.... where in the world has she been in the last few years?

    Polar bears are terribly endangered with ice and snow melting away in their habitat ...they are constantly looking for a place to survive. It's a devestating development.

    I am an animal rights activist and the environment is on the top of my list. It has to be.

    Parent

    It appears her primary (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:48:28 PM EST
    reason was because the bears' territory in Alaska is on land with oil or something underneath it.

    But the secondary reason, which I believe but don't know for sure is legitimate, is that the indigenous people in that territory literaly depend on polar bears for food, fur, etc.  I believe she's also argued for an exception to the Endangered Species designation for subsistence killing by indigenous people only.  That could be Republican spin and totally untrue, but that's what I've read-- somewhere!

    Last, I think the state of Alaska has argued that the polar bears in the state are not a population that's threatened by ice melt, at least not yet.

    I'd really like to hear some objective reporting on this whole subject because the environmental groups are going nuts attacking her for it without bothering to examine the actual arguments she's made, so it's another case of not being sure who to believe.

    Parent

    Thanks for the info :) Subsistence killing excuse? (none / 0) (#121)
    by bridget on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:27:43 PM EST
    I'll have to do more vetting checking myself ;-) Shouldn't be that hard to do. Starting with Peta. Counterpunch a must read. Etc.

    I heard she likes les guns and hunting Repub-style ... and has shot more than one proud animal to an early grave.

    She is out. No excuse.

    Parent

    If I may disagree, (5.00 / 7) (#38)
    by chopper on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:08:58 PM EST
    Alaska is the first line of defense in our missile interceptor defense system. The 49th Missile Defense Battalion of the Alaska National Guard is the unit that protects the entire nation from ballistic missile attacks.

    It's on PERMANENT ACTIVE DUTY, unlike other Guard units. As governor of Alaska, Palin is briefed on highly classified military issues, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Her exposure to classified material may rival even Biden's.

    She's also the commander in chief of the Alaska State Defense Force, ASDF, a federally recognized militia incorporated into Homeland Security's counterterrorism plans. Palin is privy to military and intelligence secrets that are vital to the entire country's defense.
    Given Alaska's proximity to Russia, she may have security clearances we don't even know about.

    According to the Washington Post, she first met with McCain in February, but nobody ever found out. This is a woman used to keeping secrets. She can be entrusted with our national security, because she already is.

    Oh, my goodness! (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:20:52 PM EST
    An actual attempt to evaluate her actual strengths and weaknesses!  Can't have that!

    Seriously, you just told me something I didn't know.  Thanks!

    Parent

    Head of Alaska NG (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by steviez314 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:24:33 PM EST
    Maj. Gen. Craig Campbell, adjutant general of the Alaska National Guard, considers Palin "extremely responsive and smart" and says she is in charge when it comes to in-state services, such as emergencies and natural disasters where the National Guard is the first responder.
    But, in an interview with The Associated Press on Sunday, he said he and Palin play no role in national defense activities, even when they involve the Alaska National Guard. The entire operation is under federal control, and the governor is not briefed on situations.



    Parent
    Is that the third or fourth time (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by domerdem on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:41:30 PM EST
    that you have posted the same info?  Interesting, but still.  

    Parent
    If you are going to "borrow" (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by domerdem on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:50:04 PM EST
    material wholesale, you may want to attribute the the source.

    Parent
    I have read other things about the state of (none / 0) (#82)
    by hairspray on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:27:19 PM EST
    Alaska and while it is small in population it has numerous common interests like the lower 48. Someone wrote about all of the issues that the Alaska government face, like tribal concerns, fishing industries, 5 military bases, lots of lakes, rivers, highways and transportation problems.  In addition to that they have crime and education and health care problems.  On the Charlie Rose show I saw her talk about trying to solve them. But guess what? Anchorage Alaska is a sanctuary city!  Would you believe it?

    Parent
    I'd like to discuss more Palin past (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Grace on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:09:30 PM EST
    but it seems like the most reliable source for it, the Anchorage Daily News, charges to read their archives (unless you can find them quoted in full elsewhere).  

    As fun as it is to read the "spin," I like to put my own spin to it.  Frankly, I don't trust either left or right wing blogs to report news accurately.  

    Now that I think about it, I don't know why I trust newspapers to report it accurately either...  

    Oh well.  

    Funny, isn't it? (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:50:36 PM EST
    We all (or most of us) got into blogs because the MSM wasn't doing its job.  Now the blogs are doing such a rotten job that the MSM seems like Diogenes by comparison.

    Sounds like you feel about as at sea in all this as I do.


    Parent

    It's insanity. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Grace on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:20:26 PM EST
    Sometimes, I think I should start my own blog where adults can discuss issues without screamig (except jokes/snark would be totally encouraged).  ;-)  

    I love debating facts -- and I'm perfectly capable of debating both pro and con, even if I personally don't agree with the side I am having to debate on -- but it seems others confuse "debate" with "personal opinion."  

    Parent

    I think your no tolerance (5.00 / 16) (#40)
    by frankly0 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:10:12 PM EST
    policy on this point is wise.

    If, though, I can make a "meta" comment, I can only say that seeing the rumors about Palin being slobbered over and broadcast as they have been in the liberal blogosphere has brought me to a true nadir in my opinion of their basic morals.

    On some level, if people don't grasp that someone can adopt a different ideology from yours and still be a good and decent person, then you've lost some important moral faculty.

    I don't know enough about Sarah Palin of course to declare that she is, at base, such a good and decent person. But I can easily envision that she might be. It is entirely possible that she sincerely believes what she believes, and is trying to abide as best she can by the moral principles she holds.

    I know such people exist. Even in my own family, I have siblings who could hardly differ more from me in their basic ideology. Yet they are, I think, good people. They love their families, they treat them well, and they try to abide by standards of good, decent, and honest behavior. If I'm honest myself, sometimes, maybe often, they are better at it than I am.

    That's one reason I found the instant attacks on Palin so very discouraging and depressing. People knew nothing about her. Yet somehow they also knew that she must be evil, and a great perpetrator of horrible acts, and that the evidence would surely back that up, if only they looked in the right places.

    It's truly just sickening to behold this kind of behavior.

    It makes me aware that even if I share an ideology with people, it doesn't make me or them decent people. I may well have nothing basic or important in common with them as people. More and more, ideology seems to me to be an accidental, almost purely demographically determined, trait in people. They espouse their views largely because of their class and background and self-image, and hardly at all because they grasp and adopt the basic principles that lie behind that ideology.

    Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap! (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:23:41 PM EST
    O, franklyO, you are, frankly, a voice of reason once again. :-)

    I remain fascinated by the fact that this woman is being attacked right out of the box with substantially more virulence than McCain has been.

    Wonder why that is?

    Parent

    You are very wise. (5.00 / 4) (#63)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:42:43 PM EST
    All I would add is that there are also many people in this country who are non-ideological.

    And most are not this way because they're stupid or ill-informed.

    But because they prefer to keep their own counsel.  

    They prefer to maintain a skeptical eye on all groups and the flags they march behind.  And a skeptical ear to all drumbeats not their own.

    We need these people too.

    Parent

    Good insights. I recall Hillary saying over (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by hairspray on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:32:59 PM EST
    and over that she was a friend of John McCain and had great respect for him, but his ideas are wrong for this country.  She was pilloried for that but that should be where we are.  The news media has made all of this a sports metaphor of winning or losing, who is up and who is down and what strategy can someone make to get on top.  Too many sportcasters turned anchors.

    Parent
    Who is trying to silence you? (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:24:20 PM EST


    Here's what I don't quite get... (5.00 / 9) (#65)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:48:29 PM EST
    I don't know that there are many people commenting or reading here who actually need to be convinced that electing Republicans is not the way to go about fixing what's wrong with the country.

    So, given that most people here are already solidy on the left, leaning left or just fed up with the GOP, it just seems like the better way to drive home why the GOP is the wrong choice is to go after their platform - what they believe in, what their agenda is, and so on.  

    It's kind of the reverse of what you were doing with regard to Obama and Biden - looking past the particulars of the candidates' weaknesses and foibles to see the big picture of what the Democratic agenda is and how much better that would be.  

    I have to say that for me, the more specific people are about why Obama and Biden are The Ones, the more apathetic and resistant I feel; when you start going into what it is Democrats want to do, where we stand, how our presence will help and not hurt, I start to think maybe - just maybe - by November I will be able to vote for the Democratic ticket to put Democrats back into government.  I am not voting for McCain, and nobody he could put on as a running mate would get me to do so.

    I suspect that the more you personalize this, and make it ant-Palin and anti-McCain, the more you bring out the tendency of people to come to their defense - and I don't think that's your goal.  We've already seen a lot of that - of people feeling they needed to defend Palin from being attacked as a response to the zeal with which you went after her; it seemed way too personal.

    I will also have to chime in and say that after seeing what came out of HuffPo, TPM and The Nation, in advocating against Clinton, it's hard to see their going after Palin as anything different or better or fair.

    I would give you thoughts on that (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 05:58:10 PM EST
    but you wouldn't read them, since they would get deleted again.  You don't know what you missed -- among many things.  You sure don't know gyrfalcon's work here.


    Your insults (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 06:37:08 PM EST
    only make you look ridiculous.  If you can't argue your case without "Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, Fox, Fox, Fox, Fox, so there!" I'd suggest you find another avocation.

    This glanton guy (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 07:47:12 PM EST
    is the New TL.  Ain't it just a treat?

    Parent
    Just How Long Have You Been Posting Here? (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:07:55 PM EST
    The "Old TL" was constituted by commenters who cared first and foremost about questions of criminal justice, about civil liberties, about attempting to stave off the war dogs.

    Jeralyn herself, and her co-contributors, made posts very similar to the ones they make today.  And there was discussion about the problems we were facing in the teeth of GOP rule.

    Then came the identity politics orgy known as the Democratic Primary, and with it came the "New TL," with commenters such as yourself.  Just as Kos and Huffpo went absolutely rabid with Obamamania, this site got flooded by people sworn to Clinton as though she were some Coat of Arms: commenters whose hatred of Obama and his supporters seemed to grow, and take over these threads, more and more with each passing day.

    And with the Primary over, that is still where we are.  The Bush apologists who used to post here went away, too.  They saw they were no longer needed.  We are now doing this to ourslves.  The whole internicine conflict has been a sick joke on those of us invested in putting a stop to the madness of the last eight years.

    Parent

    You could look it up (none / 0) (#130)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:06:11 PM EST
    as to how long I have been here, but it would require a brief hiatus in your raving.  Not as long as you were here, no.  I looked up your record -- quite revealing.  They do say that converts are most likely to turn into fanatics.

    But yes, you are getting the site back, as some of us are "doing this" to ourselves -- fleeing Hurricane Glanton, et al., faster than folks got out of NOLA.  The drop-off in the last couple of days here per alexa is making this site look like an abandoned city.  Enjoy your vast open spaces . . . until you find out that abandoned cities are without power.

    Parent

    I'm particularly impressed (none / 0) (#118)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:17:35 PM EST
    by the near-saintly quality of the purity.  Apparently, screaming insults at dissenters is the New Unity.

    Parent
    "Dissent" (none / 0) (#124)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:52:21 PM EST
    Is an interesting word for it.  Again, had McCain chosen Rick Santorum or Tom Coburn or even Mitt Romney, the terms of revulsion would have been the same as with Palin.

    But, Palin is a woman (a strong woman!!!), and so she deserves better than those others would deserve.  Somehow.  

    That really seems the nature of your "dissent."

    Parent

    Enjoy what is coming (none / 0) (#112)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 07:27:47 PM EST
    When we are in at least one additional war, and as they roll back civil rights to 1950s proportions, you'll be able to say you honored your principles, attacking the dastardly Obama.

    How ironic, after all the identity-politics claptrap that dominated the Primary, that we now have a gaggle of commenters on what is, after all, a liberal website, standing up for Sarah freakin' Palin as a "strong figure" and other such nonsense.  

    Somewhere, Machiavelli's ghost is laughing.

    Parent

    Tell me glanton (none / 0) (#119)
    by cal1942 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:24:16 PM EST
    how rights legislation can be rolled back without the legislative branch, which, in case you've forgotten, is under Democratic control?

    How can an additional war be prosecuted without legislative concurrence?

    How can federal courts be further desecrated without legislative concurrence?

    I don't detect commenters on this site supporting Sarah Palin.  I do detect commenters on this site insisting that she be treated fairly, that her selection shouldn't be regarded as an insult to women.

    You're childish comments that amount to nothing more than support us or else have been seen here ad nauseum.  It's more than a bit old and 'tired.'

    Parent

    Right. Pelosi and Reid (none / 0) (#126)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:56:57 PM EST
    and the Blue Dogs will "Stop McCain."  Is that it?  

    Suddenly they'll all grow spines and fight hard on judges, refuse to fund the neocon adventurism, force a rearrangement of the tax code, propose and override his veto on health care reform, etc.  etc.  etc.

    The Democratic Congress will save us.  Just like they stopped the Iraq fiasco when they took over, right?  For goodness sake, they barely got their little mimimum wage bill passed, and they struck out on S-CHIP.

    But, hope springs eternal, and not just from Obama.  Yeah, let's throw war dog McCain on in there, and be nice to Palin , too.  The Dems will keep them in check, this time.

    Parent

    Wow, you and chopper are really wearing out (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by domerdem on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 07:04:12 PM EST
    that commander in chief meme, are you.  Particularly interesting since it does not hold up to scrutiny.

    Just a coincidence I guess

    Let the vetting begin (4.57 / 7) (#1)
    by CoralGables on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:16:20 PM EST
    Palin was also the director of Ted Stevens' 527
    Palin & Stevens

    Fantastic call on the zero-tolerance policy. (3.00 / 0) (#12)
    by Pegasus on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:41:16 PM EST
    Definitely one of the benefits of an owner-moderated blog.

    Re: Palin, you're spot on, as you consistently have been.

    Not sure that is right (none / 0) (#19)
    by Rashomon66 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:47:55 PM EST
    I don't think she appeals to Independents or was brought in to appeal to them. I think she is meant to appeal mainly to the Right Wing base. But a recent Frank Luntz poll showed some Republicans by 2 to 1 aren't impressed.

    the comment you are replying to (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 03:51:49 PM EST
    was deleted as it was a personal attack on Obama written by a previously banned commenter using a new name.

    Parent
    Jeralyn, they just announced on TV that (none / 0) (#47)
    by steviez314 on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 04:18:18 PM EST
    Sarah Palin hired an attorney for the troopergate investigation.

    Not you by any chance?  :)

    I'd say when your VP pick has to hire a lawyer before she gets nominated, it's not a good day.

    Those who fight against (none / 0) (#116)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:00:54 PM EST
    The GOP do not deserve what it brings.  Those who understand what it represents, after all we have been through, but who propose to let them off the hook for it to punish the Democrats, will be in less of a position to complain.

    This election is asking a simple question: It's been eight years of GOP rule, America.  Are we stupid enough to reward them for what they have done, in the name of whatever principle you want to call it?  Indeed, will we be stoopid enough to facilitate more of it?  How many will die this time if we do?    

    Or, will we get past our petty identity politics and put these craven souls out of power?

    Calm down, Glanton (none / 0) (#120)
    by christinep on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:27:32 PM EST
    At first, I thought the most sensible thing was to let your comments go by. But...what the hey. Your comments are interesting; but, the tone is demeaning. When someone perceives another's tone to be condescending or in the nature of a put-down, guess what? Argument without direction ensues and escalates. Thats fine; yet, we are doomed to fire in circles. Respect me (or other commenters); and, in turn, you'll get respect. And, with a little bit of honest give & take and humor, you may be able to make your point. (I know...I sound pedantic now, but 'couldn't hold it in.) People just have different ways of going about these things and of getting to the same ends. We've all been there. Respect that. Please.

    Parent
    All the Arguments Have Been Made (none / 0) (#123)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:43:30 PM EST
    Yet so many who are commenting here are unphased.  You are right, I am not treating this as an effort at persuasion, and that is because I watched what happened to TalkLeft for the last several months.  The positions are hardened long ago.  

    "Getting to the same ends," you write.  Hmmmm, I wonder, when I see how eager people are to justify Palin's politics, what their ends really are.  And then, I wonder if these people who really supported what Hillary Clinton ran on, were they serious about what she was arguing or was it all idenityt politics in the end.  Will they really turn their back on the Democrats on election day, like that disgusting woman whose name I will not type, who appeared in the McCain ads.  There is nothing worthy of respect, there.

    Parent

    Your record is here, too (none / 0) (#127)
    by Cream City on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 08:57:05 PM EST
    from months ago.  All that you said about the Dem nominee.  With supporters who would say some of what you did about him, he's f**ked.

    Parent
    I stand by everything I wrote, Cream City (none / 0) (#134)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:17:20 PM EST
    And, I appreciate that you bothered to go look at it.

    It was an intense time for me, as it was for everyone.  I live in South Central Texas, and things got pretty out of control down here as Primary/Caucus Day came calling.  I got into shouting matches not only with fellow Democrats, but even worse, with good friends.  

    And you know, much of the feeling behind what I wrote on this blog and elsewhere, if not all, was aimed at the way the Media treated Hillary Clinton. The sexism but also the undisguised hatred of her.  Since 1992 I always felt she was ten times more decent than what she got from the press.  She's a political hero of mine, though I am pretty far to the left of her.    

    I mean, if I could have had somebody closer to me politically it wouldn't even have been Hill, but Feingold, or Wellstone reincarnated--someody significantly progressive socially and against the war from beginning to end.

    Needless to say, what I wanted from the Dems I didn't get. But like Hillary Clinton, I agree with what Obama wants to do infinitely more than McCain, who is as frightening as Bush.  And so I got over my very bruised feelings on the Primary and support the best candidate standing.

    And there is no doubt that Obama is the best candidate standing.  By a country mile.  And I suspect you know this.  

    Parent

    Of course, he's better (none / 0) (#136)
    by Cream City on Tue Sep 02, 2008 at 05:35:42 PM EST
    but the party has to be sanctioned -- because I know Chicago, and I do not approve of Chicago politics becoming our party politics.  So I still am weighing  how best to return our party to long-term viability, or we will continue to settle for better but not best.  And that "lesser of two evils" argument has led to our consistently losing -- in addition to the problem that evil is evil.  And Chicago politics is evil.

    At this point, it matters not.  All the Obama supporters and the polls tell me that my state is solidly blue.  But in case it matters what I do, I'm watching Obama's and the Dems' and the movement's every move.  And they are not impressing me this week.  

    Parent

    Respect even if you don't agree (none / 0) (#133)
    by christinep on Mon Sep 01, 2008 at 09:17:16 PM EST
    Who knows everyones' motives. I certainly don't. One thing you might want to research is "identity politics." An example: One of the earliest full studies of voting behavior completed in 1956 concerned the Eisenhower--Stevenson race. Key determinant: Ike's smile (per the Michigan Survey Research Center.) Following on that, voter studies and attitudinal surveys usually analyze the voters' "perceptual screen." The general summary of it all: It isn't just women who vote based upon identity...we all do. We all "identify" in some way. Some like calm; some like intellectual; some like passion; some like the guy-next-door (the famous 2000 "who would you like to have a beer with" Bush). We often think the other guy votes on emotional perceptions; but, according to voting studies over the years, it does appear to be all of us to some extent.

    Parent
    She's not right for the job! (none / 0) (#138)
    by alsgw1 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 12:28:59 PM EST
    Please, how can you people not associate "Gov. George W. Bush's" so called experience with "Gov. Sarah Palin"??? If I'm correct, Pres. Bill Clinton did not have to give out money to help our economy out. Ok sure, not everything Bill Clinton did was all gravy, but his Pros definitely outweighed his Cons.  I see the same thing in Sarah Palin; her experience does nothing for me but promises me another 4 years of George Bush's experience.  Experience has no merit to Common Sense.  How can someone not see that common sense says spend $10 Billion/Month for a war and your own country is struggling. That's what experience gives you instead of common sense, which says take care of home first before you help someone else out.

    Relate experience and common sense to when the flight attendant is going through the speech before take-off! When they get to the part of if oxygen is low, the oxygen masks will drop and provide oxygen to everyone.  Well "Experience" says, rather than putting my mask on my face first and then help out my partner if needed, I'll help them out as I struggle for air.  Whereas, "Common Sense" says, put my mask on first, and then help out my partner.  You're only as much help to others as you are to yourself.  You can never give more to others than you can to yourself.  Sarah Palin is probably a wonderful person, but to sit there and ride the "Experience" train, the same train George Bush rode on is totally OUTRAGEOUS!

    It is time for the USA to stand up and say, no more GEORGENOMICS! We have to change the way we treat other countries and not have a "MAVERICK and his Pit bull with Lipstick" with a fully loaded gun ready to invade every country that sneezes. Foreign Policy nowadays are more crucial to the success of our country that we have done nothing in the past 8 years but CONTINUALLY DISTANCED ourselves from these other countries that we have to deal with.  IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE!

    If we cannot accept CHANGE, then why even bother having a Democracy?  The reason why no other countries really respect us is because we put on this facade as if we are the KINGS OF THE UNIVERSE! We want every other country to follow us, yet our national debt has increased more than any other administration because your, "Experienced" George Bush put us there. So now, you want other countries to follow our trend of take care of others, before you take care of home???? That's a mind-boggling affirmation!

    CHANGE IN '08! Check yourself and what you stand for...