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McCain's Real Running Mate - George W. Bush

So sez (besides me), Paul Begala, in a Daily Kos diary. I think he just came out with a book titled "The Third Term" about - you guessed it - McCain running for Bush's Third Term.

This is an Open Thread. Play nice. Should be easy cuz I'll be out for a while.

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    Begala has grown on me this year (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:10:10 AM EST
    I liked his convention commentary.

    Oh man (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:18:05 AM EST
    And it is Bush - with enthusiastic encouragement of John McCain - who has packed the federal courts with right-wing zealots who look like the third guy from the left on the evolutionary chart.  

    What a way with words! LOL

    Parent

    Looks like we won't have Carly to kick... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:12:20 AM EST
    ...around for awhile...

    'Today, McCain economic adviser Carly Fiorina bluntly stated that neither John McCain nor Sarah Palin were capable of running a major corporation (she said the same of Barack Obama and Joseph Biden). A top campaign adviser said Fiorina will be punished for her candid opinions:

    "Carly will now disappear," this source said. "Senator McCain was furious." Asked to define "disappear," this source said, adding that she would be off TV for a while - but remain at the Republican National Committee and keep her role as head of the party's joint fundraising committee with the McCain campaign.

    Fiorina was booked for several TV interviews over the next few days, including one on CNN. Those interviews have been canceled.'
    --Think Progress


    Ouch. She just might win the "worst (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by tigercourse on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:22:51 AM EST
    surrogate" award.

    Parent
    Fiorina is being put back under wraps (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by JoeA on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:05:26 AM EST
    for excessive honesty.  Not welcome in the McCain campaign.

    Parent
    Not that she was able (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by themomcat on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:23:32 AM EST
    to manage a large corporation either. LOL.


    Parent
    In contrast, Warren Buffet said (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by indy in sc on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:40:46 AM EST
    both Obama and Clinton could run a corporation back in March.  Someone really needs to get him into an ad.

    Parent
    Has Buffet (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by themomcat on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:42:41 AM EST
    endorsed anyone? I can't recall if he ever did back a candidate.


    Parent
    Yes--Obama (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by indy in sc on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:48:25 AM EST
    During the primaries he said he back the democratic nominee whether it was Clinton or Obama.  He has since held fundraisers for Obama.

    Parent
    You know Republicans have told us for years (5.00 / 3) (#15)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:38:02 AM EST
    that we need more businessmen in office. Now they tell us  

    "It is a fallacy to suggest that the country is like a company..."


    Parent
    Actually (3.50 / 2) (#9)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:30:22 AM EST
    what you're quoting is the attempt to walk back the original quote.

    Parent
    My gosh (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:52:07 AM EST
    It's right there in the article you linked.

    Fiorina made similar comments earlier Thursday to a St. Louis, Missouri, radio station. She was asked if she thinks Palin is qualified to run a company like Hewlett-Packard.

    "No, I don't," Fiorina answered. "But that's not what she's running for. Running a corporation is a different set of things."



    Parent
    Right (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jane2009 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:59:45 AM EST
    and this earlier quote also qualifies that "that's not what she's running for. Running a corporation is a different set of things," a qualification not contained in your original presentation of the position Fiorina expressed.


    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#37)
    by Jane2009 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:02:11 AM EST
    I meant to state that Fiorina's qualification is contained in the earlier quote as well, and thus not a "walk back". I think my sentence structure came out wrong.

    Parent
    And Fiorina is right... (none / 0) (#39)
    by alexei on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:08:19 AM EST
    and the Republicans who stated that businessmen should be President and that government should be run like a business are wrong.  McCain is angry because it undermines the Republican meme that government is the problem.

    Running a corporation and being President, legislator, governor takes different skills and experience, this is quite true.  Too bad that she is bucking the Republican mantra and thus, will "disappear".

    Parent

    Mayor Bloomberg (none / 0) (#8)
    by themomcat on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:30:04 AM EST
    was the head of a large business and is a billionaire. I may not agree with everything he has done in NYC but he has managed it well. I think he could have done better with rebuilding the WTC site but that is an emotional and political mine field. Would he have been a good President? I think he would have been a better choice than McCain.


    Parent
    It's because (none / 0) (#31)
    by Polkan on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:41:13 AM EST
    successful business people and successful politicians share one essential quality: leadership skill and ability.

    Parent
    Mmm really? (none / 0) (#54)
    by Faust on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:43:06 PM EST
    I thought what they had in common was their uncommon ability to lie, cheat, and steal.

    Parent
    This coming from a person... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kredwyn on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:30:05 AM EST
    who was not well liked by some in HP world? After one story from a friend who used to work for HP before a layoff, I've always taken Carly's own management style and her statements with a saltlick.

    Parent
    So, the commercial from 2000 (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:15:33 AM EST
    that sticks with me is here.

    UGH.

    That ad reminds you ... (none / 0) (#49)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:05:02 PM EST
    how aggressively Bush targeted suburban women in 2000.

    You could have done a similar ad in many ways.  But they chose to set it in a suburban-looking kitchen, and have a female voice-over.

    The use of the counter-top TV was very clever.

    Parent

    The image has stuck with me for 8 years (none / 0) (#50)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:18:04 PM EST
    Republicans just have better ad people than we do.

    Parent
    I dunno (none / 0) (#52)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:35:14 PM EST
    I don't think the ad itself would be worth much without the underlying full-court press to mock Gore and establish him as a serial prevaricator.  You feel like the ad socks you in the gut, but what you're really feeling, in my opinion, is the impact of the narrative.  The ad affects you because you know it was an unfortunately devastating narrative.

    Parent
    Oh I absolutely agree (none / 0) (#57)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:50:01 PM EST
    I was 15 and living in Philly at the time, and I must have seen the ad dozens of times. But you're right: the outcome is what makes it stick with me.

    Parent
    Hunter's dKos article (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by gaf on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:17:27 AM EST
    Hunter writes

    McCain and Gramm were prime movers behind killing health insurance reform in the 1990's

    Not sure we want to go there.

    There was one more person who was involved in killing Hillary's healthcare plan in the 90's.

    It's Democrat Jim Cooper (D-TN).

    From a 1994 NYT article

    It has also become a pocketbook issue for Mr. Cooper, and whatever the fate of his health plan, he is already a winner.

    In less than a year, the mild-mannered Democrat from the most rural House district in Tennessee has become the toast of health care providers and insurance companies, which have channeled tens of thousands of dollars of contributions to his campaign for a Senate seat.

    Mr. Cooper is only one of the many politicians benefiting from the fund-raising frenzy set off by the national dialogue over health care.

    Since drug companies, hospitals, insurers and doctors have so much at stake in the legislation that may emerge from the Congress, many are investing all they can in lawmakers whose proposals would be most favorable to them -- or the least damaging.

    They are showering millions of dollars in donations to members of Congress with prominent roles in the debate, like Mr. Cooper, whose plan is the alternative to President Clinton's proposal most often preferred by business because it neither requires employers to provide coverage nor limits insurance premiums.

    And guess what. Jim Cooper is Obama's healthcare spokesperson - check here.

    Mike Lux wrote this about Cooper & his Obama connection.

    Cooper, a leader of conservative Dems on the health care issue, instead of working with us, came out early and said universality was unimportant, and came out with a bill that did almost nothing in terms of covering the uninsured. He quickly became the leading spokesman on the Dem side for the insurance industry position, and undercut us at every possible opportunity, basically ending any hopes we had for a unified Democratic Party position. I was never so delighted to see a Democrat lose as when he went down in the 1994 GOP tide.

    Unfortunately, he came back, like a bad penny.
    It is such a huge mistake for Obama to use a guy like this to defend their position on health care. The signal it sends to reporters, organizations, and activists like myself who know something about the old health care battles is that Obama truly doesn't care about comprehensive health care reform or universal coverage, and that the health care package you would propose if President would be a conservative, pro-insurance industry bill. The campaign ought to be trying to reassure folks who care about this issue, and using a guy like Cooper does just the opposite.




    In fact (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:29:35 AM EST
    it's more like 6 suicide bombers, 10 innocent victims, which isn't really a ratio al-Qaeda can afford to keep up.  Like we've seen in Iraq, even where the locals aren't especially pro-American themselves, if you blow up enough of them in an effort to kill Americans you tend to lose their sympathy.

    PPP Va. poll out (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by WS on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:38:16 AM EST
    O leads by two in Virginia 48-46.  

    Thanks for the reminder (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Lil on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:44:09 AM EST
    and the links, I just sent some to Habitat and they recently sent me some cool address labels.

    This article ... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:38:46 AM EST
    Yes. It's good advice. (none / 0) (#48)
    by oldpro on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:02:55 PM EST
    Galston certainly took him to the woodshed and spelled it out in plain English.

    The entire article is excellent.

    'The Speech' touted by BTD yesterday was certainly an improvement....but too long and too wordy.  And as someone pointed out, the cheering section was a distraction and a jarring one, undermining the seriousness of Obama's message and even the delivery.

    It's a start, I suppose.  The words were there.  Now to get that message in TV and radio ads, hmmm?

    Probably one lunch with Bill Clinton isn't enough to transform Obama's natural inclinations.  If he learns what Bill Clinton learned, he'll get there.

    If not...not.

    Parent

    New Gallup Daily: Obama 47%, McCain 45% (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Don in Seattle on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:23:03 PM EST
    September 17, 2008

    The Sept. 14-16 Gallup Poll Daily tracking update shows Barack Obama with 47% support among registered voters, and John McCain with 45%; although not a statistically significant lead for Obama, this marks the first time since the week of the Republican National Convention that McCain has not held at least a slight edge.

    I predicted this yesterday. It's happening even faster than I guessed.

    Roll on, big mo.

    So to sum up: (none / 0) (#55)
    by Faust on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:47:13 PM EST
    Research 2000: Obama +4
    Hotline: Obama +3
    Gallup: Obama +2
    Ras: McCain +1

    Of course I'm sure we'll have some of our Obama concern trolls along shortly to talk about how Ras should form the baseline form which the other polls are deviations.

    Bottom line though is that it's a stupidly close raise with a trend that is now moving (very slowly) in Obama's direction.

    Parent

    Carly Fiorina (none / 0) (#4)
    by themomcat on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:21:31 AM EST
    I hear she is history. Apparently she said that McCain was not fit to run a large corporation and neither is Palin. WOW!


    Thanks Carly! (none / 0) (#12)
    by WS on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:36:34 AM EST
    Bailout (none / 0) (#10)
    by eric on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:35:19 AM EST
    calculation:

    AIG gets 85 Billion.  Assuming there are $305 million people in the US, that is $278 per person.

    Thanks Carly! (none / 0) (#11)
    by WS on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:35:56 AM EST
    Posted on (none / 0) (#13)
    by WS on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:37:06 AM EST
    wrong comment.  Sorry about that.  

    Parent
    That's likely a small price to pay (none / 0) (#14)
    by tigercourse on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:37:32 AM EST
    compared to the fallout from a complete AIG collapse.

    Parent
    But as I understood it ... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:34:50 AM EST
    they have to pay it back in 24 months.

    Parent
    pointless question, politically dumb answer (none / 0) (#19)
    by esmense on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 09:47:12 AM EST
    My understanding is that Palin and her husband own some sort of fish processing business together. She may actually have more business experience than any of the other candidates -- small, family business experience, of course, not corporate.

    Still, it's not a question Democrats should be jumping up and down in glee about -- since Democratic candidates rarely arise out of the business sector. I happen to agree with Carly -- political leadership and public service take very different skills, require very different experience than what is needed to be CEO.

    The arguments that criticize politicians who have "never signed a paycheck" and/or make better management claims for any dummy with an MBA and powerful connections (like Bush) don't work in Democrats favor. No one here should be cheering the idea that public service experience is lesser than business experience.

    Carly got canned for telling the truth. But ain't that the way it always works in politics?

    Palin's story on why Monegan was fired has (none / 0) (#24)
    by JoeA on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:11:41 AM EST
    "evolved" again.

    First . . . "he wasn't fired . . . he quit"

    Second . . ."Ok he was fired,  but it was nothing to do with him refusing to fire Sarah Palin's ex Brother in Law as a State Trooper".  There was no pressure from Palin or her administration on that issue.

    Third . . . "ok . . . busted,  there was pressure but that isn't why Monegan was fired".

    Now  . . . . drumroll . . .  the reason he was fired ISNT because he wouldn't fire her ex brother in law . . . in fact it's because he was pushing for funds for a program to tackle sexual assaults and rape in Alaska.  Sarah Palin was worried that this would impact on her earmark requests with Ted Stevens in the Senate.

    I'm not sure how they think that Sarah Palin putting earmarks over Sexual Violence prevention makes her look any better.  Especially with the story about her being responsible as Mayor for her town charging rape victims for their rape kits making the jump to mainstream through The Daily Show the other night.

    Krugman says on his website today (none / 0) (#33)
    by gish720 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:49:23 AM EST
    that when McCain talks about how the economy is still fundamentally strong, he's repeating almost word for word the same phrase Hebert Hoover used in describing the economy right before the Great Depression.

    Begala's post woulda (none / 0) (#34)
    by david mizner on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:54:11 AM EST
    been good without the tired bit of gay-baiting, which, BTD, I'm surprised you allowed to go unremarked. You're usually pretty good at calling out racism, sexism, and homophobia.

    not surprisingly (none / 0) (#59)
    by wystler on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 01:29:09 PM EST
    I found PB's DKos post tired. Everything he wrote was old news on big orange, except the plug for his new book.

    Parent
    Britain recognizes Sharia Law (none / 0) (#36)
    by themomcat on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:01:48 AM EST
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece

    I'm not sure what this means. I understand that it is similar to recognizing the Jewish Beth Din court rulings regarding marital and business law. But Sharia Law can be very harsh and very misogynistic and can be contrary to basic British Law. Personally, I am adverse to interjecting religious beliefs into civil law.
    ..

    Here's an interesting story (none / 0) (#40)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:11:41 AM EST
    about an attempt to bring sharia law to America.  You almost wouldn't believe it.

    To defend itself against a lawsuit by the widows of three American soldiers who died on one of its planes in Afghanistan, a sister company of the private military firm Blackwater has asked a federal court to decide the case using the Islamic law known as Shari'a.

    The lawsuit "is governed by the law of Afghanistan," Presidential Airways argued in a Florida federal court. "Afghan law is largely religion-based and evidences a strong concern for ensuring moral responsibility, and deterring violations of obligations within its borders."

    If the judge agrees, it would essentially end the lawsuit over a botched flight supporting the U.S. military. Shari'a law does not hold a company responsible for the actions of employees performed within the course of their work.



    Parent
    I believe it (none / 0) (#42)
    by themomcat on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:33:49 AM EST
    it if has anything to do with Blackwater or Haliburton or for that matter the Bush/Cheney cabal, I believe it.
    ..

    Parent
    Interesting article (none / 0) (#38)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:06:50 AM EST
    about an overturned murder conviction in Michigan.

    I wonder if there will be any coverage here at TalkLeft.

    the order for a new trial ... (none / 0) (#41)
    by wystler on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:23:51 AM EST
    ... actually seems fairly routine, given the prosecutor's action

    meanwhile, nothing like a little righteous indignation from the triers of fact, who have no role in applying the law, and, thus, no real standing in their protest beyond their constitutional rights to assemble and to speak

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#45)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:37:22 AM EST
    it seems the judge also found the evidence to be insufficient, which I can understand the jury taking personally.  While I have no idea about the merits, you have to respect an elected trial judge risking his job in order to follow his conscience on a matter like this.

    Parent
    Meanwhile, in Las Vegas, the (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:35:49 PM EST
    prosecutor tells the jury that now, finally, the true character of O.J. Simpson will be revealed.  Couldn't say that in California, so I'm wondering about Nevada law.

    Parent
    inflamatory, for sure. but ... (none / 0) (#58)
    by wystler on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 01:26:01 PM EST
    ... i'm not that interested in celebrity issues. the statement is virtually meaningless for a non-celeb

    Parent
    Did you see Obama's new 2 min. ad (none / 0) (#44)
    by prose on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:36:02 AM EST
    I was so encouraged I went and donated $50 more.  You should do the same.  Also, check out the new video from David Plouffe.  It makes a very convincing case for why more funds are needed.

    It's The Economy (none / 0) (#47)
    by Newt on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 11:50:55 AM EST
    I just watched Faux News downplay the differences between Obama and McSame on the economy.   The Republican Went on and on about how McCain bucks his own party and how he can help us with the economy because he's a maverick.  The Democrat was great, stayed on message: Bush/McCain deregulation removed walls between banks, insurance, investments, McCain voted to remove regulation in 2005, AIG grew  with uncontrolled bad investments, CEOs make millions even when these companies collapse, and now taxpayers have to bail them out.   Yet while our guy was speaking, Faux News flashed up pictures of Obama speaking, but instead of focusing on Obama, they panned in to a close up of an audience member clapping with big black hands.   The camera eventually panned back out to show Obama speaking.  

    When all else fails, when the Repubs are clearly shown to be in the wrong on the Issues, they still have racism on their side.

    Boehlert's revenge writ large. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Faust on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:49:35 PM EST
    Boehlert has a great article this week detailing the collapse of media credibility. Worth a read.