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Reactions to John McCain's Speech

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:44:05 PM EST
Tags: John McCain (all tags)
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Calling Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. That's the McCain/Palin ticket. Take us back to the mid-1970's.

Reaction from others: Jeffrey Toobin on CNN: The worst acceptance speech ever. Not a single new policy idea.

David Gergen: It struck an emotional chord with those in the hall, but the substantive part was poor, he didn't differentiate between him and Bush and the country has had enough of Bush.

USA, USA, USA!

< John McCain Speaks | Overnight Open Thread: This Is Our Country >

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    Reactions to John McCain's Speech | 160 comments (160 topical)

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    Well (5.00 / 4) (#1)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:46:44 PM EST
    If the Obama campaign feels like a cult of personality, then the McCain campaign feels like... ancestor worship.

    heh (none / 0) (#8)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:53:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Actually, there's a nasty joke in there (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:53:44 PM EST
    about Vietnam, but I'll avoid it.

    Parent
    With a bonus cult (none / 0) (#66)
    by Faust on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST
    of Palin personality on the side.

    Parent
    I finally watched part of it (none / 0) (#154)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:30:00 AM EST
    I read it on TPM while he was giving it and read the real time comments...

    But the live performance was not all that good.  He seemed like he was doing a retrospective on his own life.....I thought he had yellow teeth--Palin has very very white teeth....

    I just couldn't picture him going a full four years and kept thinking that if he is elected we would get Palin as President.....

    Parent

    Thank god (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by zvs888 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:47:30 PM EST
    For that speech tonight.  Took a lot of the residual shine off of the Palin speech going forward since no one will really be talking about that one in the next few days.

    Well, we'll just have to wait to next Monday to see where the polls are.

    McCain should have gone before Palin (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by bluegal on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:52:13 PM EST
    Seriously. Now all the pundits will be talking about how bad it was and that means the bump is not going to be very big.

    Good night for Obama!!

    Parent

    Haven't you heard (4.00 / 4) (#48)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:37 PM EST
    It was Palin's convention.  Tweety: "Is this really now a contest between not McCain and Obama, but Palin and Obama?"

    How could this be an election between Palin and Obama?  How could someone even SAY that?  

    I feel like I'm stuck in the middle of that classic Star Trek episode where Kirk, Spock and Uhura find themselves in an alternative universe is which Kirk is a marauder, Spock has a beard, and Uhura wears a belly-bearing midriff.

    Parent

    So wierd (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Faust on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:28:33 PM EST
    but clearly that is what is happening on some level at least in the short term.

    It's a war between two charismatic, young politicians who exemplify the idea that "anyone can become president."

    Go go American Idol politics. Hey lets vote by phone this year.

    P.S. I thought McCain's speech was fricken awful. In fact I turned it off halfway through so I could read the transcript and move on with my evening.

    Parent

    I think I remember that one. :) (none / 0) (#51)
    by byteb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:12 PM EST


    Parent
    I think this will backfire... (none / 0) (#99)
    by prose on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:49:55 PM EST
    The "they knew John McCain wouldn't work so they called a mulligan" is just too easy.

    Parent
    I was remembering the (none / 0) (#155)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:40:19 AM EST
    episode with Frank Gorshin (the original Riddler)  as the half whiteface, half blackface consumed with hatred for those whose faces had the white and black sides reversed.

    Reminded me of the Democrats.....

    Parent

    "I'm a Captain's woman, and I like it!" (none / 0) (#174)
    by otherlisa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:36:26 AM EST
    "I'll be a Captain's woman again if I have to go through every officer in the fleet!"

    Hey, I didn't start it!

    Parent

    Don't Forget The Power (none / 0) (#3)
    by JimWash08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:50:43 PM EST
    of the Sunday morning talk shows.

    In fact, I think it'll be the other way round: The media will largely ignore McCain and his boring speech and focus on Palin. She's the GOP's new star.

    Also, let's not forget that tomorrow's Friday. Plenty of opportunity for Obama's campaign, or some external force, to drop a bombshell that could erase everything about last night and tonight.

    Keep your ears and eyes peeled to the Net and TV tomorrow.

    Parent

    Agreed! (none / 0) (#4)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:51:22 PM EST
    He did exactly what he did to Obama (day after speech announce Palin and steal media headlines) to himself!

    Parent
    New ABC poll out today (none / 0) (#17)
    by mexboy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:59:35 PM EST
    Obama  42%
    McCane 42%

    This is the same poll( 800 people nationwide) they conducted after the DNC and Obama had an 8 point lead.

    Parent

    Actually that's CBS (none / 0) (#25)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:04:46 PM EST
    Which had him WAY up too high before. It's totally not worth looking at, especially when you breakdown the statistics.

    Apparently McCain gained NOBODY, but Barack lost supporters?

    Highly unlikely.

    Parent

    There is a huge difference (none / 0) (#31)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:08:29 PM EST
    in party ID between the two polls.

    But of course, it's not clear which party ID mix is the correct one.

    Parent

    This (none / 0) (#34)
    by zvs888 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:10:54 PM EST
    Is the proper analysis.

    The two polls assume completely different electorates.  The lower one is more likely an anomaly but we'll see when the tracking polls come out to see how effective Palin's speech was.

    If Gallup/Rasmussen show a 2-3 point Obama drop tomorrow, then most likely the later CBS poll is closer to the truth but we'll have to wait and see.

    Parent

    Saturday is the earliest (none / 0) (#41)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:15:26 PM EST
    You can actually begin to judge the total RNC convention impact.

    My feeling is that Obama's 5 - 8 pt lead will be down to 3 - 5.

    But a 3 - 5 pt lead in the polls is actually pretty huge. Especially considering that Obama has got some serious poll leads in traditional red states.

    Expect the Republican slime to be in FULL force in October.

    Parent

    no such thing as the Bradley effect (2.00 / 0) (#74)
    by Gabriel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:46 PM EST
    that's an urban myth. Only happened a couple of times years ago, but nothing recently.

    I'm wrting this from my iPhone, so I can't provide links (when will we get cut n paste Steve?!), but if you go to Redstate.com's front page there's a Q&A that talks about this.

    Parent

    There's actually more evidence (2.00 / 0) (#100)
    by zvs888 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:50:01 PM EST
    That the Bradley effect is more present in primaries rather than general elections on both the Democratic and Republican side.

    There were some very questionable polls in the Democratic primaries this year and in the past few years the same thing has happened to Republican candidates.

    However, in general elections the polling is usually very close to the actual results.

    Evidence are recent elections with black candidates.  Look at Harold Ford Jr.'s race, or other recent general elections featuring blacks.

    The reason which is basically obvious speculation is that in primaries there are far fewer policy differences (often very tiny) and so all the extra factors like personality, race, etc. come into play.

    Parent

    I am dubious (5.00 / 0) (#113)
    by MichaelGale on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:03:30 AM EST
    of that evidence.

    I think there will be a Bradley effect.  I would hope I am wrong and maybe it will not be as prevalent, but i think it is a reality.

    Parent

    Bradley Effect ... (none / 0) (#138)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:42:15 AM EST
    Bradley Effect

    It's Wikipedia, so caution is advised.

    (I don't think there was one in NH: Obama about hit his poll numbers there, but late deciders broke for Hillary).


    Parent

    Don't get distracted (none / 0) (#137)
    by ankae on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:41:41 AM EST
    Elections are won state by state and the electoral college! These polls are not yet settled...I would say around mid to late September we should get a good idea . A 7% lead actually translates to an electoral college landslide...so don't let the political analysts scare you - Take a look at some of the electoral college maps for the last 3-4 elections and Obama is doing better than Kerry and Gore in many states.

    The truth is...There is no historical context about what we are seeing - an african american and the oldest nominee....most logical historial data could be misleading - If we accept the exit polls from the primaries...then nation wide -  race, gender and age will imapact this election in a big way.

    Stay strong...dark days are ahead as the GOP unleash Karl Rove tactics across this nation in an effort to hold on to the White House at all cost!

    In the dark days ahead...Remember...this is our moment...this is our time.

    Parent

    Oops, I meant CBS! (none / 0) (#183)
    by mexboy on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:55:40 AM EST
    My bad.

    Parent
    CBS yes. Here are the two different reports (none / 0) (#86)
    by andrys on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:40:55 PM EST
    It's always been more optimistic in Obama's direction relative to the other polls (usually true for tv news polls)

    Latest one - included most of Wednesday - the tie

    Sept 1 poll by CBS News - Obama ahead by 8 points

    10% Undecided on Sept 1 and 12% Undecided Sept 4

    Parent

    Let's not wait for the polls. (none / 0) (#79)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:37:21 PM EST
    Instead, let's do everything we can think of to get Obama elected!

    Parent
    I loved the show (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:51:45 PM EST
    Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman. It was totally new and different, creative, visionary, funny... all the things John McCain ain't.

    I kept having flashbacks (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:55:56 PM EST
    to Mary Hartman and Gramps (from the show) during the speech.

    Parent
    I'm having flashbacks of (none / 0) (#26)
    by Grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:05:10 PM EST
    Mary Tyler Moore...  And Lou Grant.  

    Parent
    Oh, stop it! (none / 0) (#69)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:30:51 PM EST
    I loved the Lou Grant Show.

    Parent
    I was too late for the song suggestions but (none / 0) (#128)
    by andrys on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:26:49 AM EST
    the first thing that came to mind was:

    "Because something is happening here - But you don't know what it is - Do you, Mister Jones?"

    Parent

    John McCain's Acceptance Speech (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Daniel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:59:10 PM EST
    THe speech was very well written, and his personal story is truly compelling. Did you know he was a POW during Vietnam? But if you were carefully listening, in the same breath in which he was disavowing the last 8 years of Bush rule, and realizing that many if not most people in the country are angry as hell at the state of the economy, McCain proposed the same exact Republican and Bush policies that made it so!
    Hillary is already on the way to Florida to start taking on Palin and McBush.
    I almost fell off my chair when,after the speech, Tom Ridge mistakenly at first referred  to John Bush.

    What? He was a POW?? (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:05:39 PM EST
    That changes everything....

    Parent
    Do you have a link re Hillary/Florida? (none / 0) (#19)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:00:09 PM EST


    Parent
    Hillary/ FLorida link (none / 0) (#22)
    by Daniel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:02:32 PM EST
    no, but just head it on MSNBC in their coverage of the campaign.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#29)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:07:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Here you go (none / 0) (#123)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:22:25 AM EST
    Hillary in Florida

    Parent
    NYT on Obama campaign (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:40:51 AM EST
    deploying Hillary Clinton and Dem. female Governors to combat Palin pick:

    NYT

    Please note:  Clinton spokesperson says don't count too much on Hillary, as she has other commitments also.

    Parent

    John Bush???? (none / 0) (#30)
    by stefystef on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:07:48 PM EST
    George W. McCain.
    That sounds about right.

    Parent
    He said John Bush? (none / 0) (#55)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:02 PM EST
    He actually said John Bush?  

    Someone has got to get that up  on YouTube.

    Parent

    He also argued against bitter partisanship.. (none / 0) (#103)
    by prose on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:52:04 PM EST
    which is all Sarah Palin really offered last night.  

    The McCain campaign is smoke and mirrors, which is why they have demonized the media.  

    Parent

    Not so angry at Bush anymore (none / 0) (#115)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:07:23 AM EST
    My anger is aimed at the Democrats.  I'm more angry at the Democrats that funded the Iraq War.  My anger is aimed at the Democrats who wrote and passed the FISA law.  I don't trust the Democrats.  They talk with forked tongue.  All of the sudden, I remember all the promises, like health care back in 1992, and change in 2006.  I'm voting true gridlock.  Democrats in Congress and GOP in the WH.

    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#118)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:14:10 AM EST
    You have to decide right now, what you believe. I hear ya, which is why I voted for Obama in the primary. Hillary was there when all this went down. Why didn't she do more than she did? She voted for this war.

    Obama is new blood with the right philosophy going on. And I may be wrong. I've been disappointed many many times before.

    But when they talk about experience, I'm glad Obama doesn't have Washington experience. Look where Washington experience got us!

    I don't know. I don't know.

    I'm so disillusioned. I am.

    Parent

    Obama did vote for FISA. Hillary didn't. (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by Firewalker on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:43:06 AM EST


    Parent
    FISA= Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (none / 0) (#150)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:11:45 AM EST
    is very different.

    Parent
    Kerry also voted for the AUMF (5.00 / 0) (#143)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:55:50 AM EST
    And it wasn't an issue then.  Why was Hillary's vote an issue?  I don't like hypocrisy. I would vote for Hillary now, instead of McCain.  I won't vote Obama.  I trust him less than I do Pelosi.

    Parent
    AUMF=Authorization for Use of Military Force (none / 0) (#149)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:08:55 AM EST
    Obama didn't vote for AUMF.  Obama didn't. Kerry and Hillary did. Kerry lost. Hillary lost. Obama didn't vote for it, and he hasn't lost. Yet. But if you keep posting this irrelevant crap, he just might, and shame on you.

    Parent
    Obama wasn't in the Senate when that vote (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:00:27 AM EST
    took place, so, of course he didn't vote for it.

    Biden did.


    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#179)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:15:34 AM EST
    I'm glad Obama doesn't have Washington experience.

    Um....he's running against the Republican VP candidate by saying she's a small town mayor while he is a US Senator and run a campaign of thousands.  Last time I checked, (which was yesterday), US Senators work in Washington, although you may have a point, since he has been running for president since he was elected from Illinois.

    Parent

    And I just posted a comment (none / 0) (#156)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:43:05 AM EST
    above about Frank Gorshin....

    Parent
    then you are limited to four comments in (none / 0) (#161)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:14:26 AM EST
    24 hours.

    Parent
    It was a little surprising (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:59:21 PM EST
    Just how empty both his and Palin's speeches really were.  

    What a display.  They have thrown the gauntlet down on the "no issues" thing.  It is all about going for blood and thunder now.  That is the only way they can win.

    Rove, tonight, very happy.

    Rove's gotta be happy (none / 0) (#62)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:27:16 PM EST
    Because this is the kind of politics he has shown himself to love sooo much over the years.

    And, he also showed it to be pretty successful.  While this GOP convention took shamelesness to a whole 'nother level, that was after all the strategy they needed.  It was never in the cards for McCain to run an issue-based campaign.

    Jeez.  All this talk about McCain and honor that they keep cramming down our throats, we might as well be talking about fishies and bicycles.

    Parent

    Sarcasm (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Daniel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:01:26 PM EST
    In my prior post, I sarcastically asked , "Did you know that McCain was a POW  during the Vietnam war?" WEll, his response to everything and any topic is to tell us he was a POW etc in all it's gory detail. It's reprehensible that he use this for his own political ends repeatedly while at the same time saying how he is in it for US, not himself.

    it's no less reprehensible than (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Edgar08 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:04:25 PM EST
    Kerry using his wartime service as a selling point.

    What we can do is rest assured is it didn't work for Kerry, so why should it work for McCain?

    I don't see the crime here.

    Oh well.

    Parent

    I draw a bit of distinction... (none / 0) (#38)
    by DudeE on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:14:11 PM EST
    ...considering Kerry was under constant attack by right wingers challenging his bona fides as a veteran and 'patriot' ... to my knowledge nobody has challenged McCain's service record and the circumstances are broadly unchallenged and not in need of repetition.

    I also find it distasteful to lament one's own experience with torture while advocating it as necessary against one's enemies.

    Parent

    Well, let's give McCain his due (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:17:37 PM EST
    He drafted a statute that forbids torture by the armed services -- unless of course the president decides that torture is a good idea, or outsources it to the CIA.

    Parent
    It's the definition of torture (none / 0) (#52)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:22:46 PM EST
    That the key there.

    Under his own definition (and I'm repeating myself in the post above), he himself was not tortured.

    Parent

    pretty much... (none / 0) (#71)
    by DudeE on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:31:54 PM EST
    ...but beyond that I was more referring to his zeal to repeal habeas corpus for enemy combatants (to be defined as Dubya sees fit).  Not technically torture but I don't find he's all that charitable given his circumstances back in Nam.

    Parent
    The crowd got the chant wrong (none / 0) (#78)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:37:07 PM EST
    Shoulda been: MCA! MCA! MCA!

    Parent
    McCain has denounced the use of ... (1.50 / 2) (#45)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:17:27 PM EST
    torture. He was very vocal against waterboarding.

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:20:44 PM EST
    McCain was NEVER tortured under his OWN recent definition of torture supported by Bush and Cheney.

    How ironic.

    Even worse, someone who was so affected by his time at Hanoi Hilton, you would think he would want to provide fair and equal judicial process for all suspected "evil doers".

    Nope.

    The hypocrisy is never ending.

    Parent

    His speech is torture (none / 0) (#127)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:26:45 AM EST


    Parent
    "was very vocal" (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by glanton on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:51 PM EST
    "Was" being the operative word.  

    He also once called the radical religious right agents of intolerance.

    There was a time when there was something to him.  Now he's just a pathetic caricature.  If he wins it will speak volumes about us all.

    Parent

    eh... (none / 0) (#75)
    by DudeE on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:33:49 PM EST
    ...waterboarding was kind of a no-brainer.  I wouldn't really praise someone for condemning use of the Iron Maiden either.  McCain is a strange creature of compromise.  I probably went too far saying he 'advocated' torture, but for someone of his experience he has certainly equivocated on the issue of basic rights for enemy combatants.

    Parent
    that's fine (none / 0) (#117)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:12:20 AM EST
    but we all do it.

    liberal pundits can't talk about cleland without referring to what he's been through, so the republican party is going to do the same with mccain.  it's a built in mechanism cause people will hesitate to criticize.

    as they always have.

    and in truth i sort of suspect we always loathed having to do so and only started talking about cleland (or murtha) a certain way because we felt we had to fight certain battles on republican terms.

    or we actually believe it's something that should be respected.

    you know.  service time.  sacrifice.

    Parent

    In the previews someone said McCain (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:03:26 PM EST
    had been working on this speech for five months.

    Sometimes there really is such a thing as way too much preparation.

    I thought the speech was meandering, confusing, the pacing was terrible and I barely remember anything about it except that it was painful to watch.  I thought it was simply awful.

    I'm not surprised (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:15:22 PM EST
    I can easily see how it took five months to find and string together every single tired cliche ever used by the Republican Party.

    Parent
    Hackneyed. n/t (none / 0) (#70)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:30:54 PM EST


    Parent
    What is it with the green screen? (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by rhyta on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:09:02 PM EST
    That drove me crazy.  Yeah just repeat I was a POW over and over, just like Rudy & 9/11.  Repugs continue to exploit the casualties for their own thunder while never taking responsibility for all the war dead.

    Let's hope people see how clueless the Repubs are..very poor speech.

    I thought the green screen (none / 0) (#42)
    by barryluda on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:16:20 PM EST
    was the only part of the speech that wasn't boring.  It made me laugh out loud, remembering his fiasco in -- where? -- New Orleans or wherever.

    Parent
    It wasn't green (none / 0) (#180)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:16:44 AM EST
    Saw a clip from ABC News this morning - it had an American flag on it, waving in the background

    Parent
    Well at least he didn't trash Miranda Rights (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:14:19 PM EST
    or did I snooze through that part?

    McCain says (none / 0) (#44)
    by akaEloise on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:17:20 PM EST
    "Miranda Raitz? Wasn't she the one I dated just before I met Cindy?"

    Parent
    Look on the "bright" side (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by BrianJ on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:15 PM EST
    Whoever wins this election will be the most hated man in America one year from today.

    Neither candidate can even come close to making his tax cut and spending increase numbers line up, especially when you consider the size of our current deficit.  Either candidate will be faced with the decision to bail out entire sectors of the economy (airlines, autos, banks, brokerages, car parts suppliers...), triple-digit oil prices, and foreclosures and inflation out the wazoo.  Neither one of them even recognizes the scope of our economic problems, much less has a plan to solve any of them.

    Can we just fast-forward to Clinton vs. Palin 2012?

    Missed much of the speech, but (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by Green26 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:40:12 PM EST
    heard Chris Matthews say that McCain basically repudiated and distanced himself from Bush. Matthews also said, twice, that McCain's repudiation of Bush may work.

    Personally, when I keep seeing a number of you saying that all Obama has to do is keep repeating that McCain is 4 more years of Bush, I keep thinking that this montra will not ring true--as McCain is probably further from Bush than almost any other Repub senator.

    This campaign theme doesn't ring true. While perhaps thought to be effective before, I hope Obama has something better to offer and campaign on than "change" and McCain is like Bush. Talk about a lack of substance.

    Obama is losing his luster. Where is his substance?

    My focus group of 3, i.e. my 18 year old daughter and her 2 friends--all Obama supporters--are very attracted to Palin and may end up being persuaded to go Palin's way.  

    Then they are not really Obama supporters (none / 0) (#91)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:43:42 PM EST


    Parent
    Many were attracted by Obama's persona (none / 0) (#108)
    by andrys on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:57:24 PM EST
    That persona is shifting, and now they have a new personality who really, if nothing else, at least kept people awake.

    I watched the crowd, and the secret may be that the guy delegates enjoyed her Annie Oakley persona and the women's faces looked unusually proud and misty, for Republican women...

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#105)
    by prose on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:26 PM EST
    Don't talk to me about Obama's lack of substance and then talk about the attractiveness of Palin who your "focus" group has known for 6 days.  She hasn't even made any national policy statements except "Drill."  

    Parent
    But that is not the point (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by befuddledvoter on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:17:43 AM EST
    It is not about who has done what.  It is about the personas that usurp the attention.  So, when a new and exciting persona appears, some people get all caught up in that.  Their interest is not tied to ideology or positions or rights or even politics.  It is all about the "show."  It is American Idol.  

    That is a huge problem with some of Obama supporters.  They were not ideology based.  Had they been, we would not have seen such vitriol lodged at Hillary Clinton. After all, Obama and Hillary were not all that different in their postions or platforms.

    The fact that the two young girls, once Obamaphiles, now think Palin is enthralling does not bode well for the Democratic ticket.  

    Parent

    What was the difference (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:24:35 AM EST
    between Obama and Clinton? Obama talked and Clinton has performed.  This election is depressing.

    Parent
    Palin is the "game changer" (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by Grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:33:29 AM EST
    She's the new American Idol.  She's Gidget, Donna Reed, Madonna, Annie Oakley and Angelina Jolie repackaged for politics.  

    If McCain pulls this off, I'll have to hand it to him that he is one strategic, clever old guy.  (Unless, of course, I find out Karl Rove orchestrated this whole thing.)  

    Parent

    she's none of those things (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:20:02 AM EST
    She's Jeannie C. Riley of the Harper vallety PTA at best. If you are entralled with her, take it elsewhere.

    Parent
    here's an interesting link (none / 0) (#168)
    by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:38:33 AM EST
    http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3079264

    it's actually going to be quite instructive about Tori...er Republican female leaders.

    Parent

    Bad analogy (none / 0) (#181)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:20:07 AM EST
    If you're going for a put down there - Jeanne C Riley (the momma) actually "socked it to" the Harper Valley PTA.  By your comparison, Palin will "sock it to" the Dems.

    Parent
    you are so right. (none / 0) (#185)
    by kimsaw on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:23:12 AM EST
    As an independent centrist. I'm disgusted by the analogy meant as a mocking of Palin. Its repulsive to think the feminist movement has failed to move past their own flawed ideology. It disturbs me that educated feminist leaders are stuck with a limiting ideology on the human potential. Movements make mistakes when they choose to be stagnant, when they make a choice not to recognize that being pro-choice has more to do with the choice to choose your own path in life. It's about the whole life,not just  your reproductive cycle.

    I am a college educated woman who chose after having children to become a stay at home mom. I CHOSE to be with my kids. It was a financial gamble. It was a struggle, but it is what I needed to do for them and for me.

     I was a volunteer community organizer who worked with the PTA, not just the local stuff, but also on the state level. I was questioned and criticized by my community for not working outside the home by my own peers.  I fought the political fights inside an entrenched bureaucracy, fought for change, but that wasn't enough. I was and continued to be devalued by my extended family, former classmates, associates and even my old professors. To this very day, stay at home moms are demeaned by over zealous feminist divorced of an acknowledgment of what real choice means. It is as though we have learned nothing and are unwilling to move forward to expand on the dialog. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness means something to me.  INDIVIDUALS have a right to self determination in America.

    I might not agree with Sarah Palin on all issues but as a woman when you demean her life, the one she has chosen for herself, then you demean me. The reaction of the so called creative class, the educated elites and I'm not talking bucks here folks but a snobbery of academia and punditry.

    I've said it before and here it is again. Palin has a right to voice her values and others have a right to hear her. You don't have to agree with her, I don't when she says no to the choices of others. I didn't  support the Republicans when they demeaned the Clintons, and I will not applaud the Dems for doing it to Gov. Palin now. The Dems deserves to be socked, because slamming small town women may just have them slamming back.

    Parent

    Jeannie C. Riley (none / 0) (#189)
    by daring grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:21:59 PM EST
    How is calling Palin that demeaning her life?

    The other writer was framing Palin as Madonna and Angelina Jolie, neither of whom Governor Palin resembles in the style of her life and in the image she promotes of herself as much the singer of Harper Valley PTA.

    Parent

    Some things... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by NealB on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:42:46 PM EST
    ...you can't capitalize on. Your intent. Your sacrifice. Your suffering.

    We can't know the suffering of others. They can't know ours. Suffering is universal.

    Skill is the credential required for leadership; not suffering.

    McCain has, no doubt suffered. He makes no case for his skill to lead except to say that he has suffered.

    Arrogant.

    So much for Obama's (5.00 / 0) (#102)
    by FemB4dem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:51:07 PM EST
    "I have better judgment" argument, and he threw that away to Bill O'Reilly?!?!?

    This is the weirdest year ever.

    You are so very right (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:19:02 AM EST
    Obama sounds the same.  I've heard those messages from every Democratic candidate.  I'm fed up with the same song, different arrangement.  I don't trust the Democrats and in my gut, I trust Obama less.  Clinton told the same message, but I know her and Bill.  I trust them to do their job.  Pelosi and Reid, eat my grits.

    Mary Hartman Mary Hartman (none / 0) (#7)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:53:02 PM EST
    Loved that show. Very off the wall in a normal family situation. Good choice.  

    David Letterman the other night (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:57:46 PM EST
    was really funny. He asked why John McCain didn't just retire after his 30 years of service and go home to Arizona, we would have built him a statue, he didn't need to seek the presidency.

    He seems to have changed his (none / 0) (#27)
    by nycstray on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:05:14 PM EST
    opinion of Palin. Something about a speech . . .

    which, honestly, I'm glad because he went the good/bad mother route the other night. I don't care if he busts on her, just do it with some basis of intelligence.

    Parent

    My Mom is 74 (none / 0) (#172)
    by txpolitico67 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:50:42 AM EST
    and my Dad is 77.  They both work everyday and my Mom gardens, volunteers and runs circles around the grandkids AND the great grandkids.

    I can only HOPE that I am that vital at their age.  I think we need to leave the whole ageism and dropping dead/one heartbeat argument alone.  Havent you heard that 60 is the new 45?  Madonna just turned FIFTY for chrissakes!  Being in your seventies is not that old, at least to me it doesn't.  

    When I hear all this stuff about McCain's cancer, age, et al.,  it almost sounds like we are a little unsettled/nervous/anxious about the "fortituous" turns the R's campaign has turned, much to the chagrin of Obama's supporters.

    Parent

    I didn't watch the speech (none / 0) (#14)
    by stefystef on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 10:58:03 PM EST
    so I'm reading TalkLeft to find out what happened.

    I will say this, slightly off topic, I watched the news tonight and Obama was talking to O'Reilly about the Iraq war and I think he said the surge was 'successful"?  I was shocked, honestly.

    On CSPAN, the callers seem very positive about McCain.  Ugh.

    I'm going to read posts to get the real story behind his speech.  I don't trust the callers.

    Obama said the surge was successful? (none / 0) (#53)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:23:14 PM EST
    Ay Dios mio.

    Parent
    Here's more of what was said (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by andrys on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:47:24 PM EST
    It's a 4-part interview.

    What Obama did say tonight

    Parent

    Maybe it was successful (none / 0) (#104)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:53:52 PM EST
    in a cut your losses kind of way. Maybe it was. Not that we should have gone there in the first place. But fewer innocent Iraqi's and American soldiers have been reported dying, lately, on the news, but it could mean they're all already dead, or friggin scared. The place is certainly not the Democracy Bush envisioned or promised.

    Parent
    Wow! You just touched on something (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:42:50 AM EST
    that has bothered me for quite some time:  Young people killing other young people in this country.  The gangs are out of control in a lot of cities and there doesn't seem to be a solution.  I live in LA and I read the "Homicide Blog" in the LA Times.  They listed the race and age of almost every person killed in LA for a year and it was just incredible how many young people were dying.  And for what?  

    And the death toll is higher than the death toll in Iraq.  It's really just sickening.  

    Parent

    McCain and Obama now agree (none / 0) (#132)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:33:08 AM EST
    Before you know it, it will be like when Obama was running against Hillary.  No differences in policies.

    Parent
    How come you don't want to see (none / 0) (#142)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:48:30 AM EST
    McCain get in touch with young men dying in Detroit? He's had how many years to accomplish this task? Do you think McCain put this statistic on the back burner and hasn't had enough time to address it, yet?

    If Obama mentions the issue of YOUNG BLACK MEN dying in Detroit, what do  you think the Republicans will do to him? How will they spin it? Will they pull up Diddy's latest YouTube addition?  Then say, "Is this who you want for president?"

    All radical Islami's are not the same. So what, you say? I'm an American and I care. Not all Islami's are RADICALS. It might behoove you to take the time and figure out the difference. Maybe not. Maybe you wouldn't notice.

    One can only hope that voters are intelligent enough to get in touch with Obama.

    Parent

    the US cut a deal (none / 0) (#171)
    by bigbay on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:45:45 AM EST
    the surge was a smokescreen for giving in to resistance demands. A lot of the guys blowing up tanks 2 years ago are on the US dole now, with their old positions of power.

    But they still hate us, they still hate the Shia.
    And Kirkuk is a long way from being resolved.

    Iraq is still a powderkeg ready to blow up.

    Parent

    It was successful (none / 0) (#61)
    by elonepb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:26:53 PM EST
    Any time you put in an enormous amount of American soldiers in any place, things will get done.

    Problem is, this was entirely mismanaged from the beginning. Obama wasn't AGAINST the surge, he was against the entire management of this war.

    I wish people would talk about the 19 out of 20 "tactical strategies" that did NOT work.

    Parent

    Beyond our dreams successful. I think he (none / 0) (#65)
    by Teresa on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:07 PM EST
    let O'Rielly bully him into saying that.

    Parent
    Oh, that's a good sign.... (none / 0) (#95)
    by miriam on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:46:50 PM EST


    Parent
    He said (none / 0) (#182)
    by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:25:43 AM EST
    that no one anticipated it would be successful.  Well, there's another 527 that writes itself, because I'm going to bet that since McCain voted for the surge (which Obama has been pounding him with), he probably anticipated it would be successful.

    Why does he keep giving them ammunition?  I eagerly await the WORM interpretation......

    Parent

    "our" (none / 0) (#131)
    by phatpay on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:30:51 AM EST
    not "my" he said "our".

    And it's not as much of a flip flop as some are painting it.

    Parent

    Why? (none / 0) (#110)
    by Bluesage on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:58:40 PM EST
    Would anyone be shocked that Obama has changed his position on the surge?  He has not proven that he has any real convictions or is committed to any positions as far as I can tell.  FISA anyone?  

    Parent
    Judging by the relatively few responses tonight, (none / 0) (#20)
    by Don in Seattle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:00:37 PM EST
    People of every persuasion cared a lot more about Palin's speech than about McCain's.

    McCain is a boring speaker. (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:12:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Indeed... (none / 0) (#35)
    by DudeE on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:11:24 PM EST
    ...I watched - as I presume most Dems did - mostly to see whether or not she'd fall on her face.  The fact that she did not was largely seen as a triumph.

    Parent
    Pit Bulls (none / 0) (#109)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:58:36 PM EST
    never fall on their faces. They fight til death, even though the cause of the fight was totally misguided. Pit Bulls leave a path of destruction behind them til the bitter end.

    Parent
    Pitbulls.... (none / 0) (#188)
    by vml68 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:56:12 AM EST
    I think you need to educate yourself about pitbulls and probably animals in general.
    Pitbulls that "fight to the death and leave a trail of destruction", do so because they were bred and trained by HUMANS to do so.

    Parent
    I didn't care very much because (none / 0) (#101)
    by andrys on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:50:40 PM EST
    after a few words, I actually did fall asleep.  Woke up when it was over and watched them talking about it (CNN).

    From what I remember, he spoke more normally or naturally than in recent speeches.  But that's not saying much ...

    Parent

    Robert Gibbs (Obama campaign) (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:08:34 PM EST
    is on CNN saying we need to grab bin Laden out of his cave.  Not sure this is a persuasive meme at this point in time.

    How about this (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Steve M on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:13:53 PM EST
    Make both candidates Commander-in-Chief of half of the military, and the first one to capture bin Laden gets to be President.  This could be a really awesome reality show.

    Parent
    Hey (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:47 PM EST
    they did a whole season of "Dallas" based on that plotline.

    Parent
    A lot more interesting than (none / 0) (#76)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:34:36 PM EST
    what's happening so far.  What is that show where people have to figure out how to get places?  

    P.S.  Dukakis doesn't think McCain has changed.  

    Parent

    Changed from what? (none / 0) (#77)
    by ap in avl on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:36:41 PM EST
    From the 2000 McCain? Or the McCain we saw over the past few years?  

    Seriously.  I would like to know what Dukakis meant by that comment.

    Parent

    He related an experience where McCain (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:39:01 PM EST
    got quite angry and just about physically threw Dukakis out of McCain's office.

    Parent
    Dukakis hasn't changed much (none / 0) (#87)
    by Grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:41:04 PM EST
    either.  He's still got those same two fuzzy catapillers crawling over his eyes.  

    Arianna is coming on CNN later...  I'm sure she'll have something "memorable" to say.  ;-)  

    Parent

    She just opined this election isn't (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:46:14 PM EST
    about Gov. Palin.   Glad to hear it.

    Parent
    Arianna said (none / 0) (#93)
    by Grace on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:46:15 PM EST
    believing McCain requires "a huge suspension of disbelief."  

    Is that right?  Or should it have been a "huge suspension of belief"?  

    I'm tired and can't think straight.  

    Parent

    She's right (none / 0) (#98)
    by shoephone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:49:49 PM EST
    It's the former.

    Parent
    Maybe we could get (none / 0) (#114)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:03:51 AM EST
    the guy who produces The Apprentice to start up such a show. This might be good. Pay the first guy with Bin Laden's head in hand a million dollars. Larry Flynt has a million dollars. Maybe Larry Flynt will back it. Amazing Race might do it.

    Parent
    ah (none / 0) (#173)
    by connecticut yankee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:01:34 AM EST
    Well, Palin is a governor of a state that borders Asia. Certainly she knows which cave he's in with all of that asian cave spelunking experience.

    Parent
    Hillary (none / 0) (#47)
    by NealB on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:19:44 PM EST
    "The two party conventions showcased vastly different directions for our country. Senator Obama and Senator Biden offered the new ideas and positive change America needs and deserves after eight years of failed Republican leadership. Senator McCain and Governor Palin did not.
    "After listening to all of the speeches this week, I heard nothing that suggests the Republicans are ready to fix the economy for middle class families, provide quality affordable health care for all Americans, guarantee equal pay for equal work for women, restore our nation's leadership in a complex world or tackle the myriad of challenges our country faces.

    "So, to slightly amend my comments from Denver: NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McCAIN-PALIN."

    Sorry Hillary, but you've been sidelined (none / 0) (#135)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:37:49 AM EST


    Parent
    What speech was Matthews watching? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Manuel on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:14 PM EST
    It sounded like his leg tingled again.  I think I heard him predict that McCain would be ahead in the next set of polls.

    Tweety (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by litigatormom on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:26:00 PM EST
    You gotta give him credit.  He's an equal opportunity tingler.

    Parent
    Chris Matthews = Tweety (none / 0) (#72)
    by ap in avl on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:33 PM EST
    as in Tweety Bird (cartoon character)

    Parent
    I have no clue (none / 0) (#73)
    by tres on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:44 PM EST
    My 8 year old as she is falling asleep "he only said one word I like compassion, compassion is a good word." Matthews must have remembered his time on the Straight (to hell) Talk Express and is having a flash back to his buddy.

    Parent
    What do you want? (none / 0) (#85)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:40:46 PM EST
    What do you see in this world? What's going on around you? The Clinton's are gone. It's not going to happen this time. What can I say to convince you to get your butt down to your local polling place to cancel out your wife's vote?

    not a damn thing, actually. (3.25 / 4) (#116)
    by cpinva on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:12:02 AM EST
    What can I say to convince you to get your butt down to your local polling place to cancel out your wife's vote?

    my wife and i will both avail ourselves of the write-in line on va's ballot. the single most qualified person had the nomination stolen from her. she may be a good democratic soldier, that doesn't mandate that i have to be.

    as far as i'm concerned, the moment the SD's handed sen. obama a nomination he didn't have the strength to win on his own, in spite of all the millions he outspent sen. clinton, was the day they showed just how spineless and stupid they really are.

    damned if i'll support idiots of that magnitude.

    Parent

    Puh-Leese! (none / 0) (#153)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:26:28 AM EST
    You want another 4 years of Bush? Get your butt out of your computer chair and run on down to your local voting place! You don't understand Republican bent pollsters who claim to know how many arrived at each polling place, tallying up the numbers, telling everyone who voted for whom. REMEMBER? CNN pronounced Gore the winner, hours before,  way back when Bush won the first time. You need to understand different time zones and how long each state's polling places are open. Some people hear this stuff and start thinking they have no need to get up off their butts and get out there to vote cuz their candidate already won. Republican tactics. Please get out there and  vote on the right day during the right time.

    Parent
    You are not a good spokesperson (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by otherlisa on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:41:49 AM EST
    for the Democratic ticket.

    You ask, "what can I do to convince you?" I would say, tell us, in concrete terms, what Obama plans to do that would convince us.

    I say this as a person who will not vote for McCain under any circumstances. But I understand the frustration and anger of those Democrats who can't support Obama.

    Parent

    people who aren't voting for the dem ticket (none / 0) (#163)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:17:43 AM EST
    are limited here to 4 comments a day expressing that.

    Parent
    A man (none / 0) (#96)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:47:02 PM EST
    with the vitality to lead.

    If not vitality (5.00 / 0) (#111)
    by andrys on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:59:15 PM EST
    he probably strikes many Republican voters and even some Dem ones as sincere and with a heart that's 'in the right place' (even when his words aren't!)

    Parent
    Didn't say Bush's name once (none / 0) (#106)
    by domerdem on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:30 PM EST
    Doesnt want it showing up in an ad.

    This convention was such a total repudiation of Bush

    In everything except... (none / 0) (#112)
    by prose on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:01:30 AM EST
    tone, technique, playing-to-the-fundies, and policy.

    So yeah, like most things the repudiation of Bush was just words deep.  

    Karl Rove and the Bush machine is the man behind the Wizard of Oz.  They are still pulling the levers.  They still push the narratives.  And, apparently, they will still get their policies carried out by a McCain/Palin ticket.

    Parent

    He never used to be (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by phatpay on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:23:37 AM EST
    McCain has sold his soul to Rove in his bid for the WH.

    Gov. Palin's speech was miscalculated luck.
    The Bushies were just hoping that she didn't embarass. The fact that she was able to read her talking points in a fairly savvy, pit bull fashion was more than they ever hoped.

    She was added hastily as a pander to women and as the energy/base platform. That she has managed to, so far, supercede the very low expectations for her is pure unadulterated luck on the part of McCain.

    The very real dangers are in the handling of shooting her down from her new loftiness.
    She went from vilified to canonized overnight. She has won a very broad appeal for McCain from exactly where he needed it. From those that cling to guns and religion. Those in that crowd for whom McCain was not conservative enough, and were considering chancing a "D" lever pull in the hopes of a lower class tax reduction, just got corralled.

    I still do not understand the Utopian thoughts on the American political system. Through what veil, exactly, are you gazing upon?
    Obviously, and factually, the US economy is run better under a Democratic stewardship in the WH. And that comes from affixing a better apportionment of the tax burden. The economy is driven by the vast millions, not the top earners. The top earners earn the same if not more (see Bubba), they just might not take home quite as much. Boo hoo. They do get sustained financial success, as opposed to the economic policies in place now. Ones that will be furthered and fostered by electing McCain.

    Obama, as much of a mystically, magical blowhard that he is, is not stupid enough to let the US continue on this incredibly precarious, incredibly myopic economic path.

    Those that are content to use the write in, or vote for McCain, or are content to wait for 2012 because, "Really, how bad could McCain be?", are ignoring the 10 trillion dollar elephant in the room. What will the debt be like in 4 years? The economy is not bad, it's collapsing.

    Yeah, it sucks that the DNC chose the Democratic nominee. Yeah, it sucks that (shock/horror) American politics got dirty.
    Yeah, it sucks that Obama is more centrist than liberal (actually it doesn't as more of the country is centrist than extreme).
    Obama will be smart enough to surround himself with sound, economic strategists. Much to the chagrin of many here they will most likely be Clintonian.
    I am truly sorry, and more than a little frightened, that the Democratic base is still so fractured.
    We have got to view these choices for the stark contrasts they truly deserve.
    Nationally choosing anyone but Obama, like it or not, is the ultimate imperilment.

    Parent

    McCain is really distancing himself (none / 0) (#165)
    by of1000Kings on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:19:56 AM EST
    fom Bush...

    I guess that's why he has most of Bush's staff running his campaign:

    Rove explained that he and McCain "got to know each other during the 2004 campaign." In a separate interview, Mehlman noted that "McCain was completely loyal to the president in 2004 and worked incredibly hard to help him get elected." According to Taylor, "The Bush Republicans here in town are excited for John McCain."

    that quote from Mehlman, who is an advisor to McCain (and was an advisor for Bush) was made earlier this year...
    Rove, as we all know is also an 'unpaid advisor' for McCain...so a backroom advisor...as Rove can't come out in the daylight (ok, the last part was just mean)

    Parent

    The person, not the policies (none / 0) (#129)
    by domerdem on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:27:06 AM EST


    Parent
    It would appear the only reason people are voting (none / 0) (#121)
    by Edgar08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:17:58 AM EST
    For Obama these days is cause Clinton said so.

    Not because she said so so much ... (none / 0) (#145)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:59:18 AM EST
    ... as because she laid out a substantive case for doing so.

    Anyway, she did have a lot to do with my (grudging) decision to support the ticket.

    Parent

    Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman (none / 0) (#141)
    by Amiss on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:47:18 AM EST
    was one of my favorite late nite shows in the 70's along with Soap, with Billy Crystal and Robert Guillaume who went on to have his own show "Benson"

    Vito both nominations! (none / 0) (#144)
    by ankae on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:57:18 AM EST

    Does the constitution allow us to have a "do over of both primaries?

    lol

    I feel your pain...I voted for Hilary but came over to Obama early after my primary. I understand why you are cynical, I am sometimes.... but when I think of the economy..the iraq war, Katrina, abuse of civil liberties, the supreme court, the teachers and students left behind....I can't stay home and I wont vote for Mccain and the GOP!

    I will NOT VOTE for a third term for the Republicans..I know Obama was not my first choice but I will cast a vote for the Democrats - it will be a vote for civil rights, protecting the environment, democracy, health care, education, the supreme court. I care too much for my America to do any thing else!

    What a revolting turn of events (none / 0) (#148)
    by Prabhata on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:08:18 AM EST
    This election is boring.  I'm glad McCain picked Palin, she really brings excitement to the dullest campaign since H.W.Bush and Dukakis.

    Carol Wins (none / 0) (#151)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:14:49 AM EST
    You just showed up here for the first time today. It seems your only purpose is to denigrate Obama/Biden ad infinitum.

    And did you know new commenters at TL are limited to ten comments per day? You just posted your tenth. Give it a rest.

    you guys are assuming (none / 0) (#159)
    by of1000Kings on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:13:27 AM EST
    that there will be people to vote in 2012...

    I'm not so certain that most of our people won't be fighting over in Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Russia if Palin/McCain is elected co-president...

    at least Israel will be their helping us...


    Parent

    there/not their....I hate when I do that... (none / 0) (#160)
    by of1000Kings on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:13:58 AM EST
    n/m

    Parent
    carol wins has been vaporized (none / 0) (#167)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:23:58 AM EST
    for violating the comment rules.

    Parent
    I think this is a really really bad move. (none / 0) (#157)
    by Grace on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:52:26 AM EST
    For Clinton voters who weren't sold when both Clintons gave their speeches at the convention, they are going to look at Hillary and think "And why aren't you on the ticket?"  

    Obviously, the Democratic ticket with Hillary on it was a winner.  For some reason, she never got on it.  

    Obama should have tried to appeal to Hillary's voters a long, long time ago.  He didn't try.  He steered clear of Appalachia.  He went on vacation.  He spent time in Europe.  He made Hillary's voters the last thing on his mind...  Until now.  "Where else were they going to go?"

    If Biden is supposed to be selling Obama to the blue collared folks, then Biden should be doing this, not Hillary.  

    That photo (none / 0) (#178)
    by phatpay on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:06:17 AM EST
    has been out for awhile.

    It's one of those photos that really defines the "a picture is worth a 1000 words" adage.
    I'm sure video of that event would give off quite a different vibe.
    The photo, to me, seems to illustrate Bush's power. McCain seems submissive. Bush dominant and dismissive. Like he does not want the creepy affection given to him.
    It's like the moment he became the Manchurian Candidate is captured for posterity.
    I find it very telling and disturbing.

    Obama's adviser (none / 0) (#186)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:06:24 AM EST
    Obama will be smart enough to surround himself with sound, economic strategists.

    Like Jason Furman and Austan Goolsbee? Yippee, it'll be Reagan Redux--well, why not? The GOP is the party of ideas, right?!

    Much to the chagrin of many here they will most likely be Clintonian.

    Unlikely. His healthcare advisor is the guy who torpedoed Clinton's plan for universal health care because it wasn't deferential enough to insurance companies.

    And rabid anti-choicer Doug Kmiec and rabid pro-unitary executiver Cass Sunstein, who looks to be his SCOTUS picks, don't strike me as the types Hillary would pick.

    I am truly sorry, and more than a little frightened, that the Democratic base is still so fractured.

    Take it up with Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Donna Brazille, and Barack Obama.

    (And I'm not posting anymore today so that's only 1 out of my alloted 4, right?)

    Uhhh... NO (none / 0) (#187)
    by phatpay on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 11:30:46 AM EST
    As I stated before the choices stand in stark contrast.

    I'm one of those that's (way) lower middle class economically. With no health care. Struggling to raise a daughter. Times have to change for the better.

    90% of US citizens make under 60k a year, and yet we are the engine of the economy. We have to make things easier for that 90% to even begin to right the economy. Is anyone paying attention to the economy? Sure it's mad fun to snark away about politics but go check the indices. This is not the US that withstood the Great Depression. Far, far fewer American businesses now are family businesses. A greater percentage than ever are corporate franchises. Even the risen small farm is but a tiny fraction of the agricultural industry. There are more than 5,000 foreclosures a week. How many economic institutions are on the verge of collapse? Major corporations? Are we ignoring the ongoing domino effect?

    McCain/Palin will not help me. They will not help the vast majority of this country.
    22 out of the last 30 years we have had a Republican in the WH and they have never, ever managed the economy responsibly or conservatively.
    You have to go back to Ike to find a Repub that brought in a surplus.

    At least with Obama the economic policies put forth will be, again in stark contrast, sound.

    Look, my candidate did not get the nomination either. And it was not the first time that has happened. And we have had the last 2 elections stolen from us. Yet here we go again, poised to get outplayed by the right. I swear, the left could mess up a wet dream.
    Put a bandaid on your wounded psyche, hold your nose, and make the choice that's crucial for this country.
    It's not rocket science.

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    Reactions to John McCain's Speech | 160 comments (160 topical)

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