Overnight Open Thread: This Is Our Country

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:05:18 AM EST
Tags: John McCain, Sarah Palin (all tags)

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Now that the Republican Convention has ended, it's time for the rest of us to remember This is Our Country, and John McCain, Sarah Palin, James Dobson and the radical right can't have it.

I took this video in Des Moines at a campaign event for John Edwards. I chose it because he has the audience -- all Democrats -- sign along with him on the refrain, "This is Our Country."

We need to remember this in the next 60 days. The country that George Bush and the Republicans stole in 2000 and kept in 2004 belongs to us. Eight long and miserable years later, it's up to us to take it back. [More...]

John McCain has sold his soul to the evangelical right to save his losing campaign. The quid pro quo was a religious extremist like Sarah Palin on the ticket.

As the radical right now begins to fill John McCain's campaign coffers with fools' gold in exchange for his VP pick, put your money where your heart is: with freedom.

Regardless of who you supported in the Democratic primaries, or whether you are independent and stayed out of it, if you don't want James Dobson, Focus on the Family and other extremist evangelical groups dictating the replacement of retiring Supreme Court justices and jeopardizing your freedom and constitutional rights and those of your children for the next 30 years, do your part. Support the Democratic ticket.

Any Republican would be bad for health insurance, jobs, social security, war, the economy, the environment and criminal justice reform. But John McCain's sell-out to the extremist fundamentalists he once distanced himself from -- the same groups who opposed his candidacy prior to his Palin pick -- threatens the core of our constitutional democracy.

McCain likely won't be around in 10 years to witness the lasting damage his deal with the devil brought to our country. But many of us and our children will be.

No matter how likely it seems today that the Republican ticket will implode before November (and I still believe it will) don't take a chance. Don't gamble on your children's future and the future of this country. Give now, and give often.

Back to the music: A three-fer from Leonard Cohen

Closing Time
(celebrating the end of the Republican Convention)

Democracy (hopefully coming in November.)

< Reactions to John McCain's Speech | Obama's Biggest Mistakes (So Far) >

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Overnight Open Thread: This Is Our Country | 30 comments (30 topical)

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evangelical right extremists (5.00 / 1) (#4)
by of1000Kings on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:52:30 AM EST

man, I'm just so glad to hear someone else talk abou it...

I was starting to think that I was crazy...

I mean, we have a president now who looked towards these extremists for guidance when he was trying to decide who to nominate for the SC...
if Palin/McCain...err, I mean McCain/Palin are elected it will just be more of the same...

just goes to show you that it doesn't take numbers or policies, really, to run this country, it just takes millions of dollars and a TV station or two...

I believe that the non-extremists still have the numbers, though, and if I believe in democracy I have to believe that the extremists will not prevail...

we shall see...

and if you don't think they're extremists, just google Robertson, Falwell or Hagee (as well as Dobson or Strang) and then come back to me...how this guys allegedly have 30+ million supporters is beyond me (as well as how they fill their personal checkbooks with millions of dollars a year with NON-PROFIT organizations)...

and I should have prefaced that (none / 0) (#6)
by of1000Kings on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:55:13 AM EST

I'm totally for the right for persons to worship how they may and I totally understand the roots of christianity both allegorically and its roots in our country, but I'm just against having extremists running our country (we seem to hate it in other countries like Iran, but it's somehow ok in ours)


Sweet Jesus, Allah, Buddah, God, Zeus, whoever, (5.00 / 1) (#12)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:19:20 AM EST

Let's not let this happen. We're supposed to be a nation where religion doesn't fit into the mix with government. Freedom of religion, remember?


exactly (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by of1000Kings on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:22:58 AM EST

but somehow the Evangelicals have gained control of our nation for at least the last 8 years, and it looks like it could be for longer as long as TBN still raises millions upon millions upon millions of dollars in non-profit donations each year...

they probably don't have as much control as the want, and hopefully there are just enough sensible, TRUE Americans in this country to keep it that way...


My only response can be (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:32:44 AM EST

Convince as many people as you can to get out there and vote for Obama. We need every vote. Offer to drive them to their polling places. Provide them with stamps to stick on their absentee ballots. Double check and be certain that African Americans aren't disenfranchised in your communities. We need every vote.

And pray that it isn't true that Republicans have enough evil and money behind them to thwart the voting tabulation process.


: They are like the Roman army (none / 0) (#23)
by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:53:09 AM EST

perfect campaigners. Especially at the presidential level. McCain should be down by double digits at this point.

It's exacerbated by the fact that (none / 0) (#39)
by andrys on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:43:54 AM EST

Obama's been courting them and promising a greater participation in his own administration, including teaching them how to get more federal funding for the social work they do (but with strings too often).

I think that doesn't bring them in as much as a Palin might and he worries his own base at the same time.

Abortion opponents asked to give invocations and benedictions on opening and acceptance nights of the Dem convention doesn't help him differentiate himself from the other side.


: He should court them (none / 0) (#41)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:01:40 AM EST

They're part of this country, too. I don't think Republicans out there have much concern for payback for their social work. I don't. Republican social work is more like a donation to the charity of their choice and a tax write off to follow closely behind.
Let Palin bring what she may. I'm not ready to start counting how many she is capable of bringing in until the media vetting process is concluded. Hang on. Let's see what this woman is really all about, apres media scrutiny.
Abortion opponents should be made welcome. We understand their pain. It's just that they may be outnumbered, now, and they're about to lose. Not that any of us are pro-abortion, we're just pro-awomansrighttochoose, and don't kill her for her desperate choice.

I think the evangelicals.... (none / 0) (#48)
by kdog on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:27:02 PM EST

think they have real clout in the Republican party, but it is an illusion. Kinda like labor thinks they have clout in the Democratic party. In reality, they are just another group being pandered to in order to raise cash and get votes for their respective party, and getting the occasional bone thrown their way for the trouble.

But when push comes to shove, the Republicans will stick a knife in the back of evangelicals just like the Democrats will knife labor in the back when their interests don't jive with those with the real clout....the money changers and titans of industry.


You shouldn't be (none / 0) (#33)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:26:02 AM EST

for the right of Christians to run our country. Unh unh. No. No. Our forefathers clearly stated "Freedom of religion" is what we're all about. They did.


Comment shilling for McCain deleted (5.00 / 0) (#8)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:04:55 AM EST

You may not use this site to urge others vote for McCain/Palin. That's shilling and is expressly prohibited.

The four a day comment limit applies to commenters who express their intent to support the Republicans or a third party candidate or oppose the Democratic ticket.

That commenter may return in 24 hours. It was his/her 4th comment of the day chattering views that this site opposes.

was I schilling somewhere? (none / 0) (#16)
by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:30:21 AM EST

I'm just doing my best Marvin the martian because this go round in 08 feels strangely like 88. It's more a paranoid android sort of feeling than schilling.


: Sorry, no i t wasn't you (none / 0) (#19)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:35:09 AM EST

it was femdem08 or something like that.

Democratic primary voters (none / 0) (#1)
by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:31:11 AM EST

more or less did this to themselves though.

The primary was the moment where WE actually counted as a selection committee. That moment has now passed and a new phase has begun.

The candidates skils and the voters in the core group of swing states will decide this one.

O'Reilly Factor w/ Obama Part 1 (none / 0) (#2)
by SomewhatChunky on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:37:01 AM EST

4-Part Interview - was on tonite, then Mon-Wed.

I was surprised he admitted the surge has been successful. But O'Reilly pressed him hard that violence is down -- that is a fact. He refused to admit that his vote was a mistake. I thought he handled a tough interview situation well by explaining that it hasn't worked in terms of some of the things we should have gotten from the surge as pre-conditions with the Iraqis.

Overall, I think he did well. This was and will be a tough interview. OReilly comes at him hard, with direct questions and direct follow-ups. He lets Obama answer, but quickly cuts him off once he has made his point or is stating the obvious. Obama had no ability to control the direction of the conversation. Yet Obama was clearly in command of numerous details and was able to make several complex points quickly - not always his strength. He more than held his own and exhibited a good grasp of many of the issues associated with the war on terrorism which republicans like to attack him on. I thought he came across as informed, competent, well-spoken. He clearly had positions on every topic O'Reilly brought up and was willing to defend them, even when O'Reilly attacked those positions. I thought he looked very capable.

When promoting the remaining 3 parts of the interview, O'Reilly stressed to tune in Tuesday - that's when they discuss all of his "bad" past relationships which Obama likes to avoid. By the end of this interview, Obama is going to be on record with answers to all of the opposition's favorite talking points. If he does as well as he did tonite, I don' think this will hurt him. It might actually help him with some people leaning the other way.

At the end of the show, O'Reilly surprised me by saying something similar to "Obama is no pushover and that he is very very tough." It was clearly stated as a positive and a complement.

It's late (none / 0) (#3)
by koshembos on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:39:44 AM EST

We cannot fight that fight. We selected a nominee who supposed to represent us in the dual. Sadly, we have selected a flawed nominee. He doesn't seem to be a fierce fighter. He should have been 15 points ahead by now. Instead, he is about neck in neck with a major league pretender, McCain. Money is not his problem, his inability to compete on a level playing field is. May we should tell him that he competing against Bill Clinton and not McCain will reinvigorate him.

Please stop. (none / 0) (#7)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:02:37 AM EST

Hang on. I think Obama is waiting for the right time to respond. He's preparing for the debates, He needs to get up to speed. Please be patient. Here was what he did today.

Obama was busy getting his first intelligence briefing. This guy is no dummy. He wrote for the Harvard Law Review. Give him an opportunity to study and learn. My money's on him. Obama is a very smart guy.

Yes, he's flawed, but we're all flawed. Me, included. So far, he hasn't cheated on his wife, nor, committed adultery. So far.

He'll be 15 points ahead, after the first debate. If Harvard isn't smarter than 5 less than mediocre colleges in 6 years that Palin attended, and I guess graduated from, but how come she wasn't subjected to the same general education requirements that I was, but, whatever. Obama better be smarter than the 2 of those presidential candidates put together, or else, our education system is in worse shape than I ever thought it was.


Actually, would YOU please stop this line (none / 0) (#42)
by JAB on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:02:32 AM EST

All four candidates are smart. Please stop with the Obama went to Harvard, so he's much smarter than somebody who went to a state school. It's offensive, since most people who went to college, and are successful professionals, went to state or small schools and not the Ivy League. Besides, even people who go to Ivy League schools, aren't necessarily "smart" - trust me, I've met plenty. Big fancy degrees, and they have no common sense, nor do they exhibit good judgment. (And for factual correctness, Obama did not write for the Harvard Law Review - he was the president - and in fact, was the only president NOT to publish).

I am not diminishing his achievements, but please, give this talking point a rest. Many people on this board went to college, graduate school, and or law school. We're not that impressed anymore.

Talk about his stances and his policies and his governmental achievements. As it has been said here many times - just saying he is better than McCain is not a good argument and will not convince people to vote FOR him.


: Why should I stop with the (none / 0) (#44)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:33:11 AM EST

Obama went to Harvard? Did you have the grades to get into Harvard? I certainly didn't. Was Harvard your goal? I always wanted to go there, but I wasn't smart enough, or I fooled around too much. Or I didn't spend enough time studying. So why should I stop with the accolades for Harvard?
If your loved one had some form of cancer that your doctor never heard of, where would you rather send your loved one? To a Harvard graduate doctor or a doctor who graduated from some medical school in Idaho? Do they have medical schools in Idaho?
Your assertion that most people who went to any college are as smart is wrong, in my opinion.
You are diminishing Obama's achievements. You may not be impressed, but I am, and I have as much right to express my opinion as you have to express yours, until one of us or both of us gets banned.
Here's one of my opinions. I want Big Tent Democrat to come back. Real quick.
I was talking about Obama's strategies. I think he's laying low, right now, studying as only a smart person can study, I think he's preparing for the debates, and I think he's going to blow McCain away. Well, for smart people, anyway.
People who are swayed to vote Republican by McCain's POW status, as of 30 years ago, people who think going into Iraq was a God driven directive to exact revenge from Bin Laden, people who think it's okay to destroy the natural resources in our country in an effort to stockpile oil, rather than build more efficient means of transportation, well, people like that, let them vote for McCain.
I'm praying there's more folks who think like me than like them.

: JAB makes good points (none / 0) (#45)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:35:00 AM EST

His going to Harvard is not a good sales point and sounds elitist. Denigrating her schools shows a snobbish attack. It's what they did after they graduated that counts, what accomplishments did they achieve and what beliefs do they now hold.
I think you could argue a law degree is better thn an undergraduate journalism degree for being President or VP because the legislative and judicial branches are totally about law and so is a lot of the executive branch. I can't figure out how Palin could ever be in his league there. But to say it's because he went to Harvard as opposed to just law school overstates it. He could have gone to any law school and followed it up with relevant legal work and have the same argument. By the same token, had she followed up and had a sustained, accomplished career in journalism, it wouldn't matter whether she went to 1 school or 6 or which schools they were.

Obama is very smart (none / 0) (#20)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:37:32 AM EST

And Biden, Biden is very knowledgeable. Biden has been around for a long time. The two of them together are very good. Maybe just what we need.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Republicans show no interest in facts and laws. They make it up as they go.

I'm back to we have to outnumber them at the polls.

or maybe hope (none / 0) (#24)
by Jeralyn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:54:53 AM EST

the rural voters in the swing states don't care enough for McCain to vote at all. I don't think they are predominantly evangelicals who will swoon over Palin or having a woman on the ticket.

Evangelicals are about 26% of the adult population and they are more concentrated in the south, and less in the northeast, midwest and west.

The Dems were never going to take the south anyway (with VA a possible exception).

Obama needs to get busy in Florida, PA and Michigan.

Colorado likely is lost to him. Too many evangelicals here.


I don't think the swing state voters are (none / 0) (#30)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:21:56 AM EST

predominantly evangelicals who will swoon over Palin, I think they are gun and rifle toting members of the NRA! And what the Hell are we supposed to do about them?

They vote Republican!

Maybe, Obama's next tactic should be, let the back woods folks have their guns, but let's keep the guns out of our cities, 'kay?


One reality though is reporting that's (none / 0) (#37)
by andrys on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:38:00 AM EST

been consistent for the last day or so about how people interviewed are responding to Palin's speech night.

It's an AP report and while I saw this in the latest Anchorage Daily News, the interviews are with people in the lower 48.

Considering the tie in the CBS News poll yesterday, which was a fall of 8 points only 2 days before (12% Undecided), Obama will need to look at tactics carefully. There's no question he'll do better than McCain in a real debate. But it has to be done in a way the average voter will understand.

His comparison of employees and $$-budget the other day, using Palin's responsibilities and budget as a Mayor of a small city vs his campaign (not doing the same for the gubernatorial situation) didn't help, which was an impetus for the sarcasm of Wednesday night. BTD was right that he should not be comparing himself against her and certainly not in belittling the responsibilities for a small town when the opponent is currently running a large state.


: We're just going to have to ignore (none / 0) (#38)
by gentlyweepingguitar on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:42:39 AM EST

polling and move forward to get Obama elected. Our work is certainly cut out for us, isn't it?

I'm not ready to throw in... (none / 0) (#46)
by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:39:22 AM EST

...the towel just yet. Sure we have more than enough freepers here, but we also have a TON of independents. They're the ones that are going to decide who wins in Colorado.

I think most of us, on a state-wide level, are sick and tired of the Repubs have wrought. I see it on the local blogs and I hear it on the streets.

If nothing else, maybe Obama can ride Udall's coat tail.


Obama is sharper than McCain (none / 0) (#21)
by themomcat on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:43:38 AM EST

Comparing the Democratic vs Republican debates, McCain should not be too difficult to challenge in a debate. McCain stumbles on details and doesn't have a good command of facts. He also contradicts himself. If Obama does his homework well and doesn't hesitate in his responses, Obama should do very well up against McCain in debates.

I tend to think it all hinges (none / 0) (#22)
by Salo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:48:20 AM EST

on teh general mood and desire of the nation. If America i ready to play nice with the Arabs etc then Obama wins, if America is still belligerant then McCain wins.

also here's a link about the general problems that a leftie has in politics.

http://www.lwbooks.co.uk/journals/soundings/debates/left_futures5.html

It's very instructive. Especially because you could say that Biden is a bit witty like Kinnock and so's Obama too as an orator. Kinnock was a better speaker than Obama IMHO and look at how Kinnock was beaten repeatedly by Thatcher. Hopfully Palin and McCain don't know this stuff.

as for leonard cohen (none / 0) (#31)
by Edgar08 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:22:47 AM EST

And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight,
getting lost in that hopeless little screen.
But I'm stubborn as those garbage bags
that Time cannot decay,
I'm junk but I'm still holding up this little wild bouquet:
Democracy is coming to the U.S.A.

And Hillary's had a lot of light-hearted moments (none / 0) (#35)
by andrys on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:28:05 AM EST

during which they both laughed after any intense disagreement. Was there anything like that here? I think Obama is mainly earnest though.