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Why Run Against The Media? Because It Works

Peter Brown, the Quinnipiac pollster, writes about the McCain/Palin campaign against the Media:

Whether the charges [of Media bias] are true or not, they have energized the GOP voter base -– which doesn’t need an excuse to hate the news media -– and the message seems to be resonating among non-Republicans as well. A Rasmussen Reports poll taken before Gov. Palin took the podium showed that 51% of voters surveyed said they felt reporters were trying to hurt her candidacy. Among self-described independents, 49% felt that way. One in four said they were more likely to vote for her because of the coverage, while 18% said they were less likely.

All true, but Brown ignores one other important factor - charges of Media bias resonate, with strong merit, with Clinton supporters. Attacking the Media implicitly appeals to Hillary Clinton supporters as well.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Terrible. (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:21:45 AM EST
    The media was biased against the Clintons for 20 years (and still) and finally the Republicans can claim bias and be correct since so many of them are firmly in the tank for Obama.  Sad.  Because it will only backfire. The same way that some Obama supporters in the left blogs are his worst enemies, so are the "journalists" in the media. They don't help him by ripping apart Palin. Only help to solidify McCain's claims of "liberal" media bias.  

    There is no doubt (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:25:58 AM EST
    that the Media has done great damage to Obama in the last 10 days.

    The Palin Obsession has been incredibly harmful.

    Parent

    Purely anecdotal. (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:28:20 AM EST
    I have a friend who was more than ready to vote for Obama. A lifelong Republican that was sick of Bush.  Until last week. She has been so distraught by the media "attacking" Palin that she feels compelled to vote for her. She said she has found her Republican-ness again. I fear she is not the only one.  These attacks on Palin have made it easy once again for Republicans and Indies that voted and were sick of Bush to vote for the GOP ticket once again.


    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:45:05 AM EST
    but the were damaging him even before Palin came along. It's just been so over the top lately that the damage is larger.

    Parent
    The Democratic Party Asked For This... (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by bmc on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:27:45 AM EST
    A Feminist's Argument for McCain's VP.

    I agree with every word:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/09/a_feminists_argument_for_mccai.html

    BTW (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:31:28 AM EST
    Tammy Bruce is no feminist.

    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:49:56 AM EST
    Because she supported George Bush? Or contributes to FOX? Suggests women should vote for Palin? She's a former LA chapter president of NOW, pro-choice, and has the feminist view on this issue down better than Steinem. I want a woman like Hillary to be the first woman through that ceiling, but it's getting hard to wait. I remember being told by many Obama supporters "not to let the perfect be the enemy of the good". I know that you're a staunch supporter of women and get the damage that sexism does to everyone - not just women. But you may be more invested in getting a Democrat in the oval office than some Democratic women are. I'm still thinking this through. I want to vote for Obama, but he doesn't always make it easy.

    Parent
    All those things (none / 0) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:54:23 AM EST
    She is a woman and entitled to her opinions but she does not have the right to claim to be a feminist.

    Parent
    I've found... (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:32:14 AM EST
    that getting into the old "I'm a Feminist!, and you're sooo not!" argument is a complete waste of time when both people are interested in a goal but disagree on how to get there.

    It ranks right up there with the FanCon arguments about who has a more dysfunctional family life...

    Parent

    And you're somehow (none / 0) (#83)
    by Emma on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:26:10 AM EST
    entitled to judge who's a feminist or not?  Condescending much?

    BTD --  you're fine on women's issues.  But you're not the champion feminist folks want to make you out to be.  You've shown yourself quite willing to disregard the rampant, institutional sexism deployed against Clinton and uphold the Democratic nomination as legitimate.

    You have no special standing to start saying who is or is not a feminist.

    Parent

    Obama does not make it easy (none / 0) (#27)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:00:33 AM EST
    to support him, but Palin represents nothing for which Hillary fought so hard.  Palin enjoys a privileged life unlike that of most working "moms."  She apparently has a supportive husband, with job flexibility, and has mentioned a nanny quite a few times. She also enjoys a robust health, so much so that she was able to return to work a day or so after childbirth.   She opposed support of senior citizen programs in Alaska and did nothing to improve the dismal schools there; she is opposed to any action aimed at extending medical coverage to the masses.  

    She kills animals without a second thought, just for sport.  

    From what I have read the fact that she hunts and is an outdoorswoman is not unique at all in Alaska.  In fact, it is more the norm there for women, including membership in the NRA.

    I do not see her as championing women's causes, and certainly not causes to which Hillary has dedicated her life.    

    Parent

    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by davnee on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:25:25 AM EST
    I like how you link Palin being a hunter (though as you say women hunters are the norm in Alaska) as being a betrayal of the feminism of Hillary Clinton.  Very creative.

    Parent
    Not at all, you miss my point (none / 0) (#42)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:34:22 AM EST
    Palin being a hunter has been portrayed as an indication of her stuanch individuality and independence from the usual gender norms.  It is not at all. A woman being a hunter and outdoorsperson is not at all unique in Alaska. I have never heard that killing for sport was a centerpiece of feminist culture, have you? Can you name a feminist who believes such?  

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by davnee on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:42:39 AM EST
    Can you name a feminist who believes that not hunting is central to feminism?  The only thing hunting has to do with feminism is that a woman should be able to hunt (or not hunt) if she darn well pleases.  And my guess is Hillary Clinton would agree with that.  Rip on Palin all you like (I certainly wouldn't nominate her for woman of the year), but don't tell me she is not a feminist because lady hunters are a dime a dozen in Alaska.  That's just plain goofy.

    Parent
    If you lived in a place where you can go (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Christy1947 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:32:27 AM EST
    into the kitchen or on the porch and find a grizzly there who is going to fight you for the food he is trying to steal, you'd have a different attitude about hunting. If you lived in a social place where the meat at the store is imported but you or your spouse or both can in fact go outside and shoot a moose and feed a large family for a long while on said moose (with a lot of burger at the end of the line), you'd have a different attitude. If you lived in a place where moose in particular can and do attack  people and ram cars, you'd have a different attitude. I may be a liberal, but when I was little and times were tough, my father took off for the woods with our car and his hunting rifle and came back with something edible on each fender, which we ate all winter, as did our church in the form of meat balls and meat loaf. And the horns wento onto our wall in memory of the animals who had died so we could afford to eat. I'm not at all sure that's what Palin did, but in places like Alaska, moose and deer show up in the yard and moose can hurt you, and bears raid anything they can find for food, including your garbage can and your refrigerator - you NEVER leave organic garbage outside. And they will do this in Ketchikan town, in Anchorage and in Fairbanks, not just out in Mut-Su Valley.

    Parent
    When I went to NY... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:42:59 AM EST
    I got a special lecture form my dad about the black bear that's been hanging out on the farm and a reminder that all trash goes in the locked root cellar for the weekly pick-up.

    Parent
    I lived in Wyoming (none / 0) (#78)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:56:02 AM EST
    I think hunting has nothing to do with being a feminist. I was merely responding to what has been touted as a moderate hunting journey of Palin.  It is not moderate at all and not simply explained by sustenence.  She does it for pleasure.

    Parent
    You can't have fun (none / 0) (#80)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:02:53 AM EST
    on a hunting trip?

    Parent
    I am an animal lover, (none / 0) (#91)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST
    plain and simple, in case you did not notice.  That goes much deeper than politics.

    Parent
    There are a lot of us (none / 0) (#93)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:33:47 PM EST
    animal lovers out there. And some animal lovers also hunt. (I personally don't hunt...but I used to fish for bass with my grandfather.)

    Contrary to some opinion, hunting and loving animals are not mutually exclusive.

    Additionally, a number of the hunters I do know are avid when it comes to conservation and environmentalism for a number of reasons--including a simple love of nature.

    Parent

    I get your point (none / 0) (#47)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:48:22 AM EST
    but my point is that Palin has been "marketed" and "packaged" partially based on the fact that she hunts and kills for sport and is a outdoorsperson.  I don't think that makes anyone a feminist at all. It is irrelevant and meaningless.  So, I agree with you there.    

    Parent
    Nothing wrong with hunting... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:26:07 AM EST
    Nothing wrong with being an outdoors person...or a sport shooter either.

    Nothing wrong with being a feminist and doing any or all of the above.

    IIRC Annie Oakley was an avid shooter...and probably could hunt with the best of them.

    One of the feminist points being that she didn't let the fact of it being a somewhat gendered pastime (which it was when she and I were growing up...boys got to hunt, girls got to stay home) get the better of her.

    Parent

    1 caveat... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:38:53 AM EST
    When I mean sport shooting, I'm talking about a specific gun range type of sport.

    I'm not talking about the a$$3s who go out to the country and hunt for "trophy" without actually taking/using their prey beyond the antler rack.

    Parent

    Oh, I had no idea (none / 0) (#73)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:41:39 AM EST
    I was thinking it meant "just for sport" not for sustinence.  

    Parent
    The "just for sport" folks (none / 0) (#79)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:00:36 AM EST
    (as I know them) are the idiots who come out from the city (aka NYC), get drunk, shoot at things that move in the trees, take the antlers, and go back to their desk jobs.

    Somehow...I'm thinking that the woman who shoots the moose, dresses it, and stocks her freezer isn't the same as the "city idiots" who used to beg to get on my grandfather's property. (Each and every time...he refused.)

    Parent

    So part of the feminist platform (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by tootired on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:26:36 AM EST
    is no hunting allowed? And you can't be a real feminist if you hire a nanny? And keeping yourself fit is a reason for women to not vote for you? Obama practically lives at the gym. Look, Palin isn't my ideal choice, but Bruce's article is going to resonate with a lot of women who are feminists and have been for a long time. I also think that liberal feminists often discount that there are conservative feminists as well. Check out the group "Feminists for Life". Who gets to tell them that they are not "real feminists"? Just running for VP is championing women's causes. And a new facet of Obama's struggle to win the White House is that an "identity politics" choice has opened up for women. The media's treatment of Hillary and Palin will contribute to the discussion and perhaps, send more than few women McCain's way if he runs against it.

    Parent
    Argument doesn't make sense (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Roz on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:31:32 AM EST
    How much exactly does Hillary Clinton's life resemble the life of a working "mom", the ones you are alluding to, I mean?

    There are a lot of working moms who immediately identify with Palin. They don't even have to think about it. "They know her."

    Getting shrill and absolutist about "women's issues" is another poor Dem attack plan.

    Parent

    most women at all.  I AM saying that Plain's life does not, though she presents herself as the typical "hockey mom."  Hillary never did that.  In fact, from what I see of Palin's positions, her life has left her with very little sympathy for women who do not enjoy the support and health she does.  We do not see that from Hillary Clinton and never have.  Hillary gets it; Palin does not.

    Parent
    Where do you get this? (none / 0) (#48)
    by Inky on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:48:30 AM EST
    She kills animals without a second thought, just for sport.

    According to Palin herself, she hunts to keep the family freezer stocked with healthy clean meat. It sounds like she represents the antithesis of the Dick Cheney "canned" quail hunting school of animal hunting.

    Parent

    She has done everyting she could (none / 0) (#55)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:06:56 AM EST
    possibly do as a politician to further, reward, and support the aerial shooting of bears and wolves.  

    Do you think she eats these?  

    See link:

    http://tinyurl.com/5vu66j


    Parent

    emotionalism... (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:54:36 AM EST
    What is the history of wolf/bear population control in Alaska?
    Why might some predator control be necessary?
    What are the restrictions?

    Parent
    Of course she doesn't eat wolves. (none / 0) (#75)
    by Inky on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:43:39 AM EST
    But she has defended the aerial shooting as necessary to build up moose and caribou herds in parts of Alaska to help improve local food supplies.

    The battle lines between humans and other tertiary consumers were drawn thousands of years ago. I don't actually support the aerial shooting program, but I'm at least somewhat conflicted about it. I'm a meat-eater, and as long as I am, I can't get sanctimonious about game hunting, especially as it provides healthier food than slaughter-house Big Ag animal husbandry. I watched a "60 Minutes" feature last night on the big business exploitation of blue fin tuna, a practice that could well lead to the extinction of this species. I found that more upsetting than Alaska's areal shooting program. And, apparently, anyone who eats sushi is tacitly supporting this practice.

    Perhaps I do need to become a vegetarian.

    Parent

    she's got a lot of interesting points (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:52:24 AM EST
    in there.

    BTW...not all feminists come from a single ideological perspective on how to "advocate equality for women, and campaign for women's rights and interests."

    Wendy thinks that Palin's part of the answer...whilst Oprah thinks that Obama's part of the answer.

    Parent

    Exactly. (5.00 / 5) (#46)
    by Jane2009 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:48:17 AM EST
    It seems to me that a lot of women are identifying with Palin as representative of the fruit of the feminist revolution - like her positions or not, she has chosen her non-traditional path in life, balancing home and career. And while I agree with the tenants of traditional feminists for the most part, I don't think that they can actually define a feminist based on the institution of political ideology, specifically claiming it for the left. I mean, they can try, but I don't think it's working.

    I think women on the hard left would do better to acknowledge Palin as representative of a woman exercising autonomy over her life, but argue the issues, not claiming that any given issue belongs to "feminists" in general, but why a specific position is better for women in general in terms of enhancing the range of choices they afford all women, and then leave it at that. Arguing that Palin isn't a "feminist" is not going to work successfully, because I don't think anyone owns the "feminism" brand.


    Parent

    this is entirely appropriate (none / 0) (#49)
    by boredmpa on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:50:03 AM EST
    Despite the knee-jerk flak you're getting for defining someone as "not a feminist," I think it's entirely appropriate to point out language/group appropriation.

    After all, the article is titled "A feminist's argument for McCain's VP."  

    And considering why she had problems during the OJ trial and beyond, I think it's ridiculous that she's getting linked anywhere during this election.

    Parent

    It seems to me that there's a smidge (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by kredwyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:28:33 AM EST
    of tension between the different schools of feminist thought.

    I don't know as Bruce has appropriated the language...as someone else noted, no one group of feminists "owns" the language or label focused on the empowerment of women. If you do a search, there're many different groups within the larger movement...

    But I can see that there's a sort of struggle within the different groups based on the prioritization of different elements. That's not unusual as larger identity groups expand and shift.

    I noted that tension during one of my many feminist theory classes in grad school. Well actually...I got in trouble with one or two of my classmates when I pointed out that I didn't think that my central power was based on my ability to have kids (beyond my niece and nephew, I have no maternal instinct).

    Parent

    I disagree (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:30:58 AM EST
    I strongly disagree (none / 0) (#17)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:50:11 AM EST
    Hey, it's a maverick (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Lahdee on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:29:04 AM EST
    kinda thing. Undermine wherever possible, stir up those angry and confused voters, make it look like the world's against him and his and watch the love flow in.
    Let's review; shiny vice president candidate with great mommy skills and an independent streak and a hero POW maverick. What more could we possibly need to know?

    Bush's Third Term (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:30:40 AM EST
    is what we need to know.

    Parent
    The Right's media attacks are about class (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by esmense on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:02:45 AM EST
    The media defends itself from, and the Left criticizes the media with, charges of political bias.

    But when the Right calls the "elite" media "liberal" it's really talking about the media's class bias, not it's political ideology.

    And, the fact is, the media DOES reek with class bias. And that is what makes the Right's attacks effective.

    Unfortunately, the Democrats and the Left in general, while rightly dismissing the notion that the media is ideologically liberal, and occasionally criticizing the self-serving actions of its corporate ownership, NEVER attack the media for, or defends its own supposedly more working class and poorer constituencies from, the media's class bias.

    Have you ever heard one Democrat challenge the media on its coverage (or lack thereof) of labor issues? Point out demeaning portrayals of the working class? Castigate pundits who throw the perjorative "white trash" around without thought or embarassment? No.

    In failing to do so, they have aided the Right's long-standing efforts to conflate "liberal" with "elite" and associate Democrats and the Left with the media's blatant class bias.

    How strong is the appeal? (3.50 / 2) (#14)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:48:14 AM EST
    charges of Media bias resonate, with strong merit, with Clinton supporters. Attacking the Media implicitly appeals to Hillary Clinton supporters as well.

    There is recognition that the Media shamelessly opposed Hill's primary bid.  And then there is straight up pettiness, of a degree more befitting a Bush sycophant than a Democrat.

    Those for whom "media bias" is a strong enough appeal to influence their vote will deserve a McCain Administration more than any Americans.  All ought to be able to agree with that.

    I have a question.  If the media is so biased against McCain, why do they call him a Maverick?  Why do they, almost all of them, continually push the meme that National Security issues are a strength of his bid for the Presidency?  Why do his Social Positions always fly under the radar?

    That Hillary was mistreated does not give people license to lose their minds.  The media is not biased against John McCain.  He gets plenty of narrative love, and has from the beginning.

    okay so that was several questions (none / 0) (#15)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:49:38 AM EST
    The media is not biased against McCain..... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:26:26 AM EST
    ...so much as they were biased against the Clintons and for Barack Obama. While some of the diehard Obama fans in the media will stick with him, the rest will blow with the wind. And if the wind says McCain/Palin, so be it.

    Parent
    The Primary is Over (none / 0) (#70)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:36:42 AM EST
    as you know.  And with it the bashing of Hill.  But you know what has been remarkably stable this whole time, while Dems obsessed over which Historic Personality to put at the top of our ticket?  

    McCain as Maverick.  McCain as bipartisan.  McCain as reasonable. McCain as brave POW.  McCain as socially moderate.  McCain as a go-to guy on Foreign Affairs.

    The "wind" you're describing didn't come, won't come from God. It did come, will come from memes like that.  

    Parent

    unfair criticism (1.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:51:53 AM EST
    I googled Sarah Palin and unfair coverage, specifics, media bias and unfair reporting.  I looked for articles from MSM, I searched FOX for examples and found very little..

    I did find this after a google search in politico:

    Democrat Joe Biden, in what he intended as self-deprecating remark, observed, "There's a gigantic difference between John McCain and Barack Obama and between me and I suspect my vice presidential opponent. ... She's good looking."

    So the right can pass out buttons at the convention with the following :HOTTEST Governor, Coldest State" and Biden cannot make a self deprecating comment

    * A spokeswoman for the National Organization for Women, noting Palin's opposition to abortion rights and support of other parts of the social conservative agenda, told Politico, "She's more a conservative man than she is a woman on women's issues. Very disappointing."

    NOW is not the MSM and they are entitled their opinion, but again not the MSM.

    Liberal radio host Ed Schultz used the words "bimbo alert" to refer to Palin, and the Huffington Post featured a photo montage of Palin with the headline, "Former Beauty Queen, Future VP?"

    Is Ed part of the MSM?

    * CNN's John Roberts recently pondered on air: "Children with Down's syndrome require an awful lot of attention. The role of vice president, it seems to me, would take up an awful lot of her time, and it raises the issue of how much time will she have to dedicate to her newborn child?"

    John Roberts is out of bounds here and while some may think it an appropriate question, most women are scratching their heads saying "what about the husband's responsibility" rightfully so.

    So after 1 hour of searching for ATTACKS from the MSM I am coming up empty.  

    This is definitely a perfect time to resurrect the wendy's campaign, "Where's the beef"?

    The crap coming out of the McCain campaign and some of the posters here is simply misleading.  It is a well orchestrated diversion to pull people away from the fact that she is not ready to be interviewed and needs to get up to speed on the issues.  

    And they are winning that campaign not because of accuracy but because of the carry over from HRC's negative coverage.

    Blogs are a wasteland of communicating misinformation.  Very little analysis and lots of hyperbole.  Very little factual presentation, yet lots of opinion and finger pointing.  

    McCain has a lot of balls saying that families should not be questioned when a few years ago he said "Chelsea is so ugly because Janet Reno is her father".

    Someone, anyone, please show me an article from the MSM or either demo candidate that has anything even remotely comparable than calling someone's daughter "ugly" or saying that their opponent's wife is a lesbian who had an affair with a woman and produced a child who was "ugly".

    Here's some more... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Polkan on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:36:38 AM EST
    According to Rasmussen, fully 68% of voters believe that "most reporters try to help the candidate they want to win." And -- no surprise -- 49% of those surveyed believe reporters are backing Barack Obama, while just 14% think the media is in the tank for Sen. McCain.

    link

    Good (none / 0) (#10)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:36:43 AM EST
    I have no problem with any of this.  The media needs to push the issue and she needs to be on record.  The most powerful position in the world and Americans don't want the press to be hard on a candidate?  Americans deserve what they vote for and that includes those of us on the other side.  If we cannot rally enough people to vote on issues than we deserve another 4 years of the past 8.  

    There is too much emphasis on winning in this country and not enough attention as to the path to get there.  

    In 5 years or 10 years history will show that the coverage and lack thereof is mostly embarassing.

    it is the media's job (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:56:49 AM EST
    to talk about and ask about issues.  But, in this case the media started after Palin about her daughter's pregnancy, and continued right up to rumors of her having an affair.  These topics may have started at places like KOS, but the media picked them up and ran with them.  So, as far as the public is concerned those "personal" issues were in the "media" being discussed by the "media".  It doesn't matter to them whether they issues began on a blog, on cable or on Network News.

    No one would have any problem with the media asking Palin tough questions about "issues".  But, that isn't where they went initially.

    Parent

    Palin's infamous and extreme positions (none / 0) (#29)
    by befuddledvoter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:04:34 AM EST
    on abortion and birth control begged for media inquiry, once it was known that her unwed teenage daughter was pregnant.  Had Palin not held such extreme positions, I doubt the media would have been that interested.

    Parent
    what is Palin's extreme (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:20:49 AM EST
    position on birth control?  Has she advocated banning birth control?  I would consider that extreme.  Or, is she just against teaching about birth control to underage children in public schools?  I don't agree with that position.  But, it's not extreme.

    Of course there are way the "media" could discuss her positions on these issues without getting into personal attacks such as speculating over whether her daughter actually gave birth to her last child.

    Parent

    Oft reported and not true. (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:22:12 AM EST
    She's against abortion, and is for birth control. I completely disagree with the woman on every issue...but it's not necessary to lie about her actual stances to show her extreme-ness IMO.

    Parent
    Nobody is talking about her positions on... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Maria Garcia on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:27:54 AM EST
    ..anything and that is the problem. By making it seem like a personal witch hunt, the media has obscured anything of substance.

    Parent
    had the Repubs not put it all in her very first (none / 0) (#71)
    by Christy1947 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:37:20 AM EST
    press release, the media wouldn't know about it at all. The question is not the issue, but why the Repubs, once the source of Family Values, led with that as their very first release.

    Parent
    the media wouldn't "know" (none / 0) (#76)
    by TimNCGuy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:54:31 AM EST
    That's part of the problem with the coverage of Palin as well.  the media claims that her nomination was such a surprise that they had no information to report about her.

    Her name has been floated as a possible nominee for at least two months, if not more.  If the media were doing their job, they would have found out about her and been ready to discuss her positions from the start.

    Do you suppose that the media "knew" or "prepared" for the other possible nominees?

    Parent

    No. The media's job is to report. (none / 0) (#11)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:39:05 AM EST
    Not to push any issue or any candidate. Their job is to objectively report the news, whatever it may be.  When did it become the media's job to "push" anything or anyone for that matter? Their job is to report the news. With objectivity. When did it become acceptable for the news to outright shill for one candidate and fully attack another? It's ridiculous. It wasn't right when they pushed Bush and worshipped McCain. It wasn't right when they attacked Clinton(s) relentlessly. It's certainly not right now that they back the Democrat.

    Parent
    10 days (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:50:50 AM EST
    without a press conference for the second in command of the free world? It is their job to INFORM and if that means pushing than so be it.  the media was complicit in the war, complicit in the credit crisis and complicit in our foreign policy disasters of the last 8 years.  The lack of critical reporting and investigative journalism has contributed greatly to the failures of our government, so YES it is their responsibility to push the issues.

    Parent
    And now they're (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:00:01 AM EST
    complicit in attacking a woman based on her personal life. I've not heard one word from the media on the woman's actual policy. Just about her pregnant daughter, her special needs son, and a plethora of other non-pertinent subjects. The media is as per usual, NOT doing its job. The media should report. Not push any issue or candidate.  

    Parent
    What are her policies (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:05:13 AM EST
    I watched the news all weekend and nary a mention of her daughter, her family or any of your other gripes.  

    If she had a record the press could look into to extrapolate thought process on policy, perhaps you might have an argument.  But sequestration of the potential second most powerful person in the world is shameful.  Just a talking point for McCain and you are embracing it.  Do you have any clips from MSM this week about her family?  Or did you just read McCains press clippings?  

    Don't talk about your hero son going into the military and try to avoid talking about your pregnant daughter because it is politically inconvenient.  Don't tell me you want to legislate abstinence only education when it completely failed in your household.  Fair arguments as far as I am concerned.

    Parent

    Indeed. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:14:22 AM EST
    Should work just fine to get those lunch bucket Dems that are not exactly foreign to having a pregnant teenager.  But go ahead. Suggest they attack her personal life. Considering McCain is up by 1 right now, it seems to be doing wonder for our candidate.

    It's not a McCain talking point, btw, it's common sense. And it does nothing but damage Obama negatively.  I have seen less than 1 report on the economy and unemployment rates. Why not focus on THOSE issues, which are important to most Americans (especially the middle class). If they focused on real issues instead, Obama would be ahead by 10 right now.  The Democrats always win when voters are reminded of real issues, not reminded that liberals think they're stupid for having pregnant daughters.

    Parent

    again (none / 0) (#50)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:51:52 AM EST
    you bury your head in the sand and have difficult reading.  10 days no meet with press. You have not provided one let alone several pieces of evidence regarding your assertion.  I watched the MSM and heard nary a story.  I read three papers and read nary a story.  The issue of abstinence as a stand alone is a real ISSUE, whether you like it or not.  

    The issue of the second most powerful person in the world (potentially) not speaking until she has memorized someone else's positions is frigthening.  

    Why don't you provide us with some evidence of the personal attacks from MSM and the dates.  Why don't you provide us with her positions on policy etc?

    I will wait with great anticipation for the results of the MSM frequent and over the top attacks.

    Parent

    LOL. You must have (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:54:27 AM EST
    missed the reports in the Times, MSNBC, CNN, NBC and all the rest of them talking non-stop about the woman's personal life. I'm no fan of hers. Neither am I a fan of McCain's. I'm a solid Dem that will vote for Obama.  You must have missed the story in the Times just today about Palin and her "fake" kind of maybe pregnancy.  Because that's completely relevant to her policy positions. Or not.  

    Parent
    Google Palin pregnancy (none / 0) (#52)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:55:48 AM EST
    and see what comes up.  There may be just too many results for you to sort through.  

    Parent
    and indeed (1.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:04:07 AM EST
    you still cower from the truth.  you said ATTACK, please provide evidence.  Evidence from MSM not BLOGS.

    Until you can actually provide some evidence I will assume you are just another SHILL perpetuating misinformation.

    Tough words you use yet you provide nothing in the way of evidence.  I googled Palin pregnancy and found a lot of support for her. Am I to assume that the Arizona Republic is a shill for John McCain, well of course it is.  So for every story that questions the abstinence only efficacy, there is a story proclaiming right to her privacy over her "choice".

    And CHOICE is the very heart of the matter now isn't it.  

    Parent

    Yes. I'm making it up. (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:07:49 AM EST
    They have not attacked her at all.  Believe what you like. It is not my job to prove anything to you. It is my opinion (and apparently that of most Americans now) that she's been unfairly attacked by the media on issues that have nothing whatsoever to do with her policy positions.  

    But continue on. You're correct. She's been completely handled objectively from all media sources. Just like Hillary was.

    Parent

    basically (1.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:16:09 AM EST
    your interpretation of the news reins supreme despite your inability to provide actual evidence.  Thank you Bill O'Reilly.

    Out of curiousity, is it personal to discuss 6 colleges in 5 years to get a degree or is that off limits?

    Is it personal to discuss Rev Wright or are one's pastors beliefs as an extension of yours fair game?

    Is it personal to talk about attending a muslim school as a toddler?  

    Is it personal or relevant to discuss whether or not Obama is a muslim?

    Is it personal to interview a half brother living on the poorest continent on the planet to describe how he feels abandoned by his famous brother?

    Just curious

    Parent

    LOL. Now you sound like (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:20:04 AM EST
    an Obama shill. I've never once said he was a Muslim, nor that Rev Wright was fair game, nor that  his brother was a relevant issue.

    And if you care to read back over my comments, I called out the media when they reported falsehoods and perpetrated attacks against Obama AND Hillary, too. Simply because you LIKE the particular hackery you see in Olbermann because it agrees with you doesn't make it any less awful.  I despise media bias: whether it leans right OR left.  

    Sure! Attack the woman's college education. It will do wonders with the working class.  

    Parent

    do you know how to read? (1.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:24:03 AM EST
    Perhaps RIF will help you.

    Parent
    And I'm done. (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:24:48 AM EST
    Apparently you cannot have a conversation without personal insults.  

    Parent
    apparently (1.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:31:33 AM EST
    you do know how to read, just selectively.  And apparently you have no evidence just you keyboard and free place to post.  you make a lot of accusations and assumptions and provide nothing substantive.  Your keyboard should be seized, and if you wait long enough perhaps Ms. Palin can take it along with any books you have that are not agreeable with her.  Or is that too personal?

    Parent
    And excuse me? SHILL? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by rooge04 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:10:04 AM EST
    For whom? LOL. I'm an actual, life-long Dem. That will vote for Obama. But I will not pretend that just because hackery is parrotting what I believe it is still not hackery.  I'll assume you're just an Olbermann shill.

    Parent
    ASSume (1.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:22:58 AM EST
    and you would be one.  I am on record here of saying that Olberman is a moron.  Do some research and get back to me.  Because YOU can see bias does not mean the world does.  And the more you and the right perpetuate it, the more you deserve McCain Palin.

    I supported O throught the primary and he lost me on not picking Hillary and FISA and I will be voting Nader.  Financially speaking McCain is MUCH better for me.  For my daughter and my wife and their rights, well I don't want to get personal but they will be impacted significantly by a book banning, anti-choice, creationist who is not ready to "meet the press" but is ready to lead America.

    I am a concerned citizen that does not think it appropriate that McCain tell the press what they can and cannot do.  We have had 8 years of that and our citizens are paying for it dearly.  Provide some evidence instead of using the talking points of the right.  Google it and find the "personal ATTACKS" from the MSM and post it.

    Parent

    I agree with your point (none / 0) (#25)
    by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:59:00 AM EST
    Too bad they let the current 2nd in command of the free world go 8 years with narry a press conference.

    Parent
    Lack of Investigative Reporting (none / 0) (#31)
    by liberalone on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:06:18 AM EST
    You are very right regarding the role of the media in misinforming the public over the past 8 years.  Every democracy needs a free press that is actively engaged in asking the hard questions and trying to get to the truth.  With the notable exception of C-Span we are merely getting infotainment.

    Your comment regarding winning is particularly poignant.

    There is too much emphasis on winning in this country and not enough attention as to the path to get there.  

    I like winning too, but I would want to win on the issues in a fair election.  (Flashback to the 2000 and 2004 elections)  

    Parent

    It should appeal to Obama supporters too (none / 0) (#13)
    by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:47:05 AM EST
    I don't think the media's love of lazy questions like  "this is what so and so says about you - how do you respond?" helps Obama at all.

    At least one Obama staffer should be reading The Daily Howler and building media critiques around the laziness and herd mentality of the media.

    Where the laziness and herdiness come from (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:52:47 AM EST
    Media consolidation is maybe the biggest enemy of our democracy.  

    Parent
    Yup - as well as the multimillionaire (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:55:14 AM EST
    status of the major reporters.  Think they want any real change in the established order?

    Obama with his grassroots support has the best chance of anyone in a long time to really take this on.

    Parent

    Agree and disagree (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:04:21 AM EST
    But the agreement is more important.  Yes, the celebrity status of "journalists," who are really enablers, part of the Established Power.  Why don't people see that the same company owning multiple television networks, or multiple newspapers across the nation, is worse for democracy than bias against a particular candidate will ever be?  

    Re our disagreement.  Certainly Obama's the best of what's left, and by a country mile.  But it really irked me that neither Clinton nor Obama touched this issue with a twenty foot pole; indeed, they strayed far and wide of anything that would smack of Edwards' anti-corporatist streak.  Sadly, Nader siphons off a lot of votes by speaking to corporatization of discussion as the most dangerous enemy to our republic; he speaks to it consistently and cogently.

    I would not call Obama an enemy of Media consolidation any more than Hill is/was.  Not until these pols takes on the issue head-on, as, say, Feingold has, do they deserve credit for doing it.

     

    Parent

    No disagreement (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:26:33 AM EST
    I should have finished my point better.  Obama should be able to take on the MSM since he is (at least theoretically) less dependent on it because of his use of his grassroots organization and the internet. I share your disappointment that he has not siezed this advantage to take on media consolidation issues.

    Parent
    It really would have fit (none / 0) (#43)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:36:43 AM EST
    His campaign perfectly, wouldn't it?  His celebration of bottom-up political movement could have been dovtetailed perfectly with attacks on consolidation.  

    I guess the only problem is, had he or any Demo close to the nomination done this, the MSM would have of course had the knives out in a real way; survival instinct--they know where their bread is buttered.  

    Parent

    "Media darling" takes on media? (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:06:50 AM EST
    Unlikely.

    Parent
    Touche (none / 0) (#82)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 11:18:03 AM EST
    Disconnect between his "bottom up" Rhetoric and his relationship with Media during the Primary always bothered me a great deal.  

    In any case.  Now we see what has happened.  One thing people of all persuasions, on this site and others, seem to be able to agree on.  The bloom is definitely off the rose, re Obama.

    But the McCain-as-reasonable-Maverick meme?  That aint goin anywhere anytime soon.

    Parent

    Au contraire. McCain has gone up in (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:04:48 PM EST
    the polls since the RNC, leading me to believe some are believing he is a maverick/reformer or, at least, will be if elected.  I keep thinking of the tortoise and the hare.  McCain is creeping around the meteoric Obama.

    Parent
    Stay fair (none / 0) (#87)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:52:21 PM EST
    He was Branded a "Maverick who bucks his own Party" long ago, by the Very Media we are discussing.  

    Fine, you can agree with that assessment (I suspect you do), but there is no denying that this is what they've been telling us, and continue to tell us, with mind-numbing consistency.

    Parent

    Of course he was branded a maverick (none / 0) (#88)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 12:58:01 PM EST
    by the media.  But now the public is tuned in and he emphasized it in this much-watched convention speech.  Palin's public image reinforces the branding.

    Parent
    So let's see if I understand you (none / 0) (#89)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 01:19:18 PM EST
    Obama branded positively, undeserved.  But McCain branded positively, earned during the convention.

    Hmmmmm.

    Parent

    You don't understand me. (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:07:16 PM EST
    I'm not even sure you read me.

    Parent
    Imagine if the media... (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 08:55:22 AM EST
    ...were really doing their jobs.  Logic would have it, these numbers would be higher in the discontent area.  The truth is, Americans have gone so long without a free and vibrant press doing it's job, they wouldn't recognize it if it happened -- and most likely would think it was a bad thing.

    More and more, I think we are going to get what we deserve.

    While the media are no great shakes right now, the American people, by and large, are worse.  Myself included.  

    We'll get what we deserve.

    That is true too (none / 0) (#32)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:08:12 AM EST
    What sells the most?  Missing White Women, sex scandals, an occasional Terror Alert.  Etc.  A story on homelessness or health care, or even our wars if the story is in depth, is a ratings killer.

    Parent
    Hard to say (none / 0) (#59)
    by sj on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:18:52 AM EST
    The so-called "ratings killers" haven't really been tried.

    I the other hand, I know what I would watch...

    Parent

    Also a good point (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by glanton on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:29:41 AM EST
    Sometimes I do wonder whether something might have be done about Health Care long ago had the crisis ever gotten the attention, say, of Scott and Laci Peterson, of Natalie Holloway, the runaway bride, &c.  Yet, don't we as a public still bear some responsibility; what if the people  revolted by saying look, we're not watching this junk anymore?    

    You get it exactly right.  "Hard to say" whether we are getting what we deserve or not re media coverage.  But very easy to figure out that a  corporatized media is truly, truly bad for democracy, regardless of which schmuck is sitting in the anchor's chair.  Or which candidate seems to be getting the breaks.

    Parent

    republicans railing against the media is (none / 0) (#33)
    by pluege on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 09:08:19 AM EST
    a brilliant ploy that accomplishes many critical things for them:

     1) makes the media kowtow so they don't criticize republicans
     2) to be "fair and balanced" the media goes overboard being critical of democrats
     3) because of (1) and (2), a counter-factual general meme now pervades the American psyche of 'republican = good, democrat = bad'
     4) it makes citizens think the media is doing their job being critical, at least of republicans, when in fact they aren't.
     5) it rallies the republican troglodyte base around their favorite thing - believing they're being persecuted.

    Unfortunately, I don't see Democratic railing against the media as having the same effect, and would only further enforce the misconception of (4)

    Of course it works (none / 0) (#90)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:02:00 PM EST
    Did anyone catch this gaffe reported by Huffingtonpost?  Did any of the MSM pick it up, or are they afraid of picking on Ms. Palin?

    Speaking before voters in Colorado Springs, the Republican vice presidential nominee claimed that lending giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had "gotten too big and too expensive to the taxpayers."

    Is this bias of defining campaign strategy (none / 0) (#92)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:19:19 PM EST
    Fox news syndicated columnist says this:

    THOMAS: Not that we need more evidence of media bias, but according to the "Wall Street Journal" on Friday, Andrea Mitchell got on MSNBC and said, only the uneducated will vote for Sarah Palin. I rest my case.

    And this is what Mitchell said:

    Mitchel: Well, they think now that they have a story. They have a story of a working mom, she is a colorful character, an Annie Oakley... you know, Annie get your gun. They love her story, but when she tried to talk about Hillary Clinton in Pennsylvania, in western Pennsylvania, yesterday at a rally with conservative Republican voters, Hillary Clinton was booed. So, she can use the Hillary Clinton and Geraldine Ferraro analogy if she wants to in interviews, she cannot use that at Republican rallies.

    She is not appealing to the same women who were really voting or supporting Hillary Clinton on ideological issues but they think that they can peel off some of these working class women, not college educated, who, the blue collar women who were voting for Hillary Clinton and may be more conservative on social causes.

    So who is being unfair here?  Who is being intellectually dishonest?  

    You let Foxnews and John McCain define these issues and you will never beat this ticket.  This is a complete distortion of what Ms. Mitchell was implying and Cal knows that.  Yet here we are on a left blog complaining that words like the above from Ms Mitchell are "attacks".