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"Sexist, Plain And Simple"

The New York Times runs an article claiming that conservatives will attack Judge Sonia Sotomayor for her harsh questioning in oral argument. From the gang that reveres Justice Scalia, this is just rich. But Sotomayor's colleague on the Second Circuit, Judge Guido Calabresi, cuts right through the BS:

Judge Guido Calabresi, a former dean of Yale Law School who taught Ms. Sotomayor there and now sits with her on the Second Circuit, said complaints that she had been unduly caustic have no basis. For a time, Judge Calabresi said, he kept track of the questions posed by Judge Sotomayor and other members of the court. “Her behavior was identical,” he concluded. “Some lawyers just don’t like to be questioned by a woman,” he added. “It was sexist, plain and simple.”

(Emphasis supplied.) Indeed.

Speaking for me only

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    Somehow I missed page 2 of this article (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by andgarden on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:52:12 PM EST
    when I read it the first time.

    I think we all know what "strident" means.

    not gonna read it (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by kmblue on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:59:41 PM EST
    I'm afraid "shrill" might be in there too.

    Parent
    Yep (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:06:03 PM EST
    very sad to say.

    Parent
    Shrill's just the beginning (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Sweet Sue on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:22:43 PM EST
    And frumpy, don't forget frumpy

    Parent
    The new word is "tempermant" (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:35:24 PM EST
    No (2.00 / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:45:19 PM EST
    that one's been around for quite a while. Perhaps this is the first time it's being used on Sotomyer but believe me it's been used by Obama before.

    Parent
    Well, since they like to go the (none / 0) (#17)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:47:55 PM EST
    B!tch route, it does fit. Next they'll actually try and temp test us. Works for 4-legged b!tches, why not 2 legged ones?

    Parent
    I bet that she has crankles (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by Cream City on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:04:32 PM EST
    (Code word for: post-menopausal -- men fear women whose testoserone levels are rising, while men's are declining.)

    Parent
    Preach it. (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by Sweet Sue on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:51:58 PM EST
    Cream City, I think I love you.

    Parent
    IMO Scalia is frumpy (none / 0) (#86)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 29, 2009 at 07:25:46 AM EST
    But IOKIYAM (it's o.k. if you are male).

    Parent
    I have to wonder why he (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by oculus on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:54:43 PM EST
    kept track. But I'm glad he did.

    It shows a methodical mind. (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Fabian on Fri May 29, 2009 at 07:54:51 AM EST
    Plus a good dose of suspicion.

    Wonder how many complaints of that type he got about male judges?

    If someone came to you with complaints about someone who worked for you and their complaints didn't correlate with your experience, how do you determine what is really happening?  If you go with he-said/she-said and there are a lot more he-saids, you might conclude that there really is a problem.

    But by tracking incidents and comparing them against other colleagues, you can create an objective record to support your conclusions.

    Parent

    Lifetime tenure (none / 0) (#147)
    by oculus on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:18:39 PM EST
    The continual (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:55:38 PM EST
    trashing of women has me convinced that the last year or so has set us back so far I dont even want to think about it. Yes, the sexist trashing of Sotomyer is horrible. But it's certainly not suprising.

    not surprising cuz (5.00 / 6) (#6)
    by kmblue on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:58:44 PM EST
    practice makes perfect.

    And the primaries were a long practice session.

    Parent

    Yep. Same song... (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by oldpro on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:55:13 PM EST
    second verse.

    Parent
    Third verse (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:18:47 PM EST
    It was done to Palin, too.

    Parent
    Hot damn! You're a sharp (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by oldpro on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:33:21 AM EST
    cookie tonight!

    "A sharp cookie?"  Hmmm...wierd image, hmmm?

    Parent

    gee (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:55:53 PM EST
    Some lawyers just don't like to be questioned by a woman.

    Now there's a shock.  At least, though, he doesn't just leave it at that and calls it what it is.

    I think I love Judge Calabresi.

    Mommy is mad (none / 0) (#12)
    by denise k on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:27:54 PM EST
    Some see every woman as mommy and when she gets mean they turn into three year olds.

    Parent
    They define "mean" as just being (none / 0) (#103)
    by sallywally on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:34:03 AM EST
    strong, firm, and/or effective.

    Doesn't actually have to be objectively "mean," which when it occurs in a man is seen as "passionate," "dedicated," "colorful," "strong," etc. But of course still objective.

    Parent

    I thought she "wasn't that smart"? (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:06:32 PM EST
    She is known as a formidably intelligent judge with a prodigious memory who meticulously prepares for oral arguments and isn't shy about grilling the attorneys who appear before her to ensure she fully understands their arguments.

    And the headline to the article . . .

    Sotomayor's Sharp Tongue Raises Issue of Temperament

    Give Me A F#$%^&* BREAK!!!!

    Why don't (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:51:56 PM EST
    they just cut to the chase and call her "shrill" or a "dried up old hag" or some other derogatory term. It's all been used before. Lather, rinse repeat. You can almost predict what they're going to say before they say it. Next up: Maureen Dowd's catty commentary on how she's too short to wear judicial robes.

    Parent
    Politically this might be great (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:38:02 PM EST
    Republicans will piss off even more latino voters, and in their search to find a message that "works" they are pissing off professional women of all stripes who have heard these code words before.

    But I don't (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:53:32 PM EST
    see Obama pushing back against the sexism. So while it certainly doesnt help the GOP it isnt helping the Dems either.

    Parent
    It's revolting to even think of it (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:30:29 PM EST
    in political terms, isn't it?

    Who cares if it's helping the Dems? At what personal cost? This poor woman is being trashed and humiliated in the public eye for no reason - just as Hillary and others have been. It seems awfully cynical to talk about it in terms of which party it's helping.

    Parent

    I'd be more interested to see the effect this (5.00 / 5) (#44)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:40:09 PM EST
    is having on other Latinas and women. (any backlash etc) F*** the Dem party. We learned where they stood loud and clear.

    This is just disgraceful.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 3) (#48)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:46:34 PM EST
    I'm way more interested in the fate of human beings in the face of this crap than in the fate of political parties.

    Parent
    Of course... (none / 0) (#51)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:55:02 PM EST
    but unfortunately political parties end up having quite a large impact on human beings.  So its silly to just give up.

    Parent
    They sure do. (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:57:35 PM EST
    So it's still to keep excusing it, just because another party is a bit worse.

    Parent
    Who said anything about excusing it? (none / 0) (#57)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:05:30 PM EST
    Im saying stay in and fight it.  This giving up on a better dem party when its, for all practical purposes, a two party system is a lose/lose situation.

    Parent
    But orgs can push the parties (5.00 / 7) (#59)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:06:36 PM EST
    if we just keep letting the Dems slide on this and everything else, why bother with parties?

    Notice that some orgs aren't jumping on the bandwagon until they find her position on privacy/choice? Do you think they will just roll over for the Dem party if she turns out to be too iffy on that issue? I think not. That's where I'm putting my weight. On groups/orgs and politicians that will stand up and represent me. Like I said, F*** the Dem party. I consider it a backatcha to them  ;)

    Parent

    I can see that... (none / 0) (#64)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:15:12 PM EST
    for this specific fight then yeah, I agree with you.

    Parent
    It's not giving up. (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:13:30 PM EST
    It's called not giving in.

    Parent
    Our Party promotes gender equality (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:39:50 PM EST
    and our platform forwards feminist causes.
    F*** the Dem party. We learned where they stood loud and clear.
    If you have specific complaints about individual members of the Dem Party, wouldn't it be more effective to criticize their exact words or actions and demand change? When you paint the whole Party as sexist, you miss the opportunity to bring our Dem leaders into alignment with our feminist goals.


    Parent
    Howard Dean for starters (1.00 / 0) (#131)
    by nycstray on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:09:47 PM EST
    that lovely little claim of not seeing the sexism being thrown at Clinton and justified his not seeing it by saying he didn't watch cable. Top down my dear, including our current President.

    Parent
    Send him a video and tell him (none / 0) (#133)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:18:10 PM EST
    what you want done differently.

    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by nycstray on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:52:26 PM EST
    He knows it happened, and admitted as much down the road in a gosh aw shucks kinda way and maybe he should have done something.

    There's a reason I say and do the things I say and do. I didn't leave the Dem party in some little hissy fit. I left because they no longer represented me. The Green party is much closer to my leanings than the Dems these days, but I'm choosing to stay indie for now and work for things I believe in.

    Parent

    Here's wishing you the best. n/t (none / 0) (#143)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:57:57 PM EST
    The good news is that (2.00 / 1) (#120)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:23:08 PM EST
    Americans aren't buying the nonsense -- 54% approve Sotomayor's appointment, 22% undecided, and 24% oppose her appointment.  

    Parent
    There are more dems... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:44:37 PM EST
    pro choice than their are republicans; there are more dems pro equality of marriage than their are republicans; there were more democrats that voted against the war in Iraq than their were republicans.  

    Sorry but those are issues I care about, so until that changes its usually better to have a dem than a republican in office.

    Parent

    These days (5.00 / 4) (#54)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:59:14 PM EST
    there's a heck of a lot of pro choice indies (etc) also. I support candidates, not parties. I support issues, not parties (and yes you can do that and not bow down to the Dems!).

    Both of my Sen will be hearing from me first thing in the morning. I want to hear them speaking out against this sh!t. I'm beyond OVER IT and they should be to.

    Parent

    Ideally I agree with you... (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:09:41 PM EST
    but in reality numbers tend to mean power for a political party.  Besides, I dont think Ive ever been in a situation where the republican candidate was better than the democrat on issues... course Ive pretty much just lived in oklahoma my whole life, so that could be part of the problem.

    Parent
    But I'd rather support an org that's going (5.00 / 6) (#69)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:26:52 PM EST
    to throw muscle at my issues that the political party that just pays it lip service. Do I vote mostly Dem, yes. (remember, my Mayor has been Dem, Rep and Indie, lol!~) But I will not support the party that is not supporting me. I'd rather work on the outside pushing the issues. How else are we going to overcome what has happened to the political system here? You support outside of the parties and the politicians may just have to grow a spine (also a way to dilute lobbyist $$$) and stand up for real on the party's beliefs.

    I did not vote for Obama (or McCain!), but I would have voted for then Sen Clinton because I knew she was solid on women's issues (much more so than Obama) and some of my other issues (Ag, food safety, health care, kids, etc). Obama never convinced me. I am lucky to be a blue state baby (born in CA), although both of my states do have their red moments . . . . oy.

    Parent

    I respect your position and your reasons... (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:39:19 AM EST
    but for me the issue is that, if I leave the party and say Im an independent, then its like Im letting those I disagree with push me out of my own party.  Im just not ok with that.

    Parent
    Would give you a standing ovation (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Fri May 29, 2009 at 07:32:32 AM EST
    if I could.

    We need millions of more people to take your stand. We just might get politicians to walk the walk and not just give speeches and do kabuki dances.

    Parent

    Sorry, but (none / 0) (#63)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:14:04 PM EST
    pro choice than their there are republicans; there are more dems pro equality of marriage than their there are republicans; there were more democrats that voted against the war in Iraq than their there were republicans.

    Corrections, mine. There is there in all cases in your statement.

    I'm watching the finals of the Spelling Bee, sorry. :)

    Parent

    Ha... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:20:46 PM EST
    yes I always screw up the theirs/there/theyre thing.  Im an artist so I never need to know what Im talking about.

    And yeah I watched the end of that too.  Felt bad for the girl in the final three that lost.  I could tell she wasnt gonna make it; she just wasnt confident enough.

    Parent

    I am a Black Jew (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:58:32 PM EST
    I have a cynical view point :)

    Parent
    Can you provide any factual proof... (2.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:25:38 PM EST
    that this isnt helping dems?

    Parent
    The fact (5.00 / 5) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2009 at 05:58:49 AM EST
    that the number of people self identifying as Dems is decreasing maybe?

    How on earth do you think that the Dem's failing to respond to sexist attacks on Sotomyer is helping them?  IMO, this is more of the same "you have to vote for us because look at them" type thing. Do they not realize that people can sit home or that they don't have to vote for a Dem?

    Parent

    Do you realize when people do that... (none / 0) (#160)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:50:36 PM EST
    we get two terms of bush?

    Parent
    Frankly (1.00 / 0) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:15:52 PM EST
    since Obama continually has the GOP's back on a lot of issues and we're getting more supply side economics how are we any better than off now than with Bush. The only argument that you could really make is the supreme court and we're not really sure about that yet either.

    Parent
    Obama has reversed some bush... (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:23:00 PM EST
    policies and Im personally convinced we'd have forced a conflict with Iran had mccain/palin been elected.

    Parent
    A few (none / 0) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:35:37 PM EST
    but what about that conscience law? it seems Obama plans to let that stand.

    Parent
    Well... (5.00 / 0) (#167)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:03:08 PM EST
    I wouldnt say Obama is my ideal president.  In fact, I seriously doubt I'll ever have my ideal president.  So Im not going to break my back trying to defend everything he does or doesnt do.  But I know mccain would have been worse.  

    Is that the best argument for voting dem?  Absolutely not.  Would I rather have a liberal firebrand as president?  Of course... but that wasnt an option this last campaign.  So "the better than them" argument, while lame, is true and I have zero regrets voting against mccain/palin.

    Parent

    That's pretty much the same as (none / 0) (#161)
    by nycstray on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:59:56 PM EST
    "you have to vote for us because look at them" type thing.

    doesn't fix the problem either.

    Parent

    It may not fix the problem... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:24:10 PM EST
    but if we didnt have any dems in office, we'd be in a real sh!thole.

    Parent
    Not pushing back??? (none / 0) (#58)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:05:55 PM EST
    What about this choice is sexist?  

    Parent
    It's not about the choice (5.00 / 4) (#60)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:09:06 PM EST
    it's about defending the sexist attacks against the choice.

    "Spine, could you please pick up the white courtesy phone?"

    Parent

    I guess he should stop what he is (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:15:52 PM EST
    Doing right now.  Forget Egypt, foret Palestine.  He should focus on some bizarre right wing statement from some nut for a fight that is 2 months off.  

    He framed the debate in a great speech.  Now it is up to others to point out how stupid these attacks on her are.

    Parent

    No, I never said that (5.00 / 7) (#70)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:45:17 PM EST
    I said "Spine could you pick up the white courtesy phone."

    It's not just Obama that isn't out there on this, BUT he is the President and he won the election as a Democrat, right? Perhaps he could be on the phone with a spine and other spines could be picking up the phone? (he's not that naive is he that he didn't expect some backlash?) They are a well run operation, but not so much here.

    I'm sorry, did I miss the memo that said women need to fight this bottom up with no help from the top, who supposedly represents us? Should all of our lower level Reps start railing against this while the Pres does his thing and leaves his nom twisting in the wind? Wouldn't they get backlash for disrespecting the Pres by speaking out when he's not addressing it and we are supposed to be one big happy party in control of everything while bending to the Right?

    I'm sorry, I do respect you and our views, but you don't live in my she-world  :) I'm so F***ing beyond over this sh!t and Obama is not the strongest in this area. Trust me on that one. And if you can say with a straight face they didn't expect some of this, more power to ya. But if you think they might have, why the hell are they letting it fly?

    Parent

    Who is he supposed to call? (5.00 / 0) (#94)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:15:11 AM EST
    Its not like it has even gotten that bad.  It will get worse.   Idiots make idiotic statements, you can't stop that.  Obama nominated this woman, who regardless of these idiotic statements will be the next supreme court judge.

    Also, it is the shrillness of their attacks that will move this country forward.  I welcome them.  When most people, who are good common sense folk, hear these statements they move farther away from accepting this stuff as okay.  Especially after they get to know her.  This is like the civil rights movement picking Rosa Parks- what are you going to really attack this woman on that resonates with anyone that already doesn't believe it to their core?

    Side note-  After watching the cable news I realized that when I grow up I want to be a White Fireman- they are the best people in the world.

    Parent

    I don't know what part of your comment (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:22:54 AM EST
    I should be most appalled about...

    Who is he supposed to call?  Well, here's something interesting to think about, sam.  Obama has seen fit to give major speeches on race, on religion, on foreign policy - all of which had their genesis in attacks against him.  When he is attacked, he has no problem setting people straight - or at least using his platform to do it.  When the attacks against Sotomayor branch out to being attacks against him, that's when we will hear from him, and not a moment before.  Because what matters most to Obama is Obama.  Period.

    For some people, I guess the nomination is supposed to speak for itself - I truly think Obama believes that by putting his seal of approval on Sotomayor, he has done all he needs to do.  Must keep moving forward, you know!

    And speaking of moving forward, I am stunned by your belief that it is the shrillness of the attacks that will move the country forward.  Tell me something: was it the lynchings and discrimination and the brutal attacks on black people that moved the country forward, or was it leaders who worked to enact legislation, who taught, who defended, who acted in ways that showed people what the right thing to do was?  Do you really think that if the way blacks were treated had been allowed to continue that people would have, on their own, come to their senses to make it stop?

    The longer these attacks and blatantly sexist comments are allowed to go unanswered by Obama, by all those in positions of power, the more likely it is that they will once again become acceptable.  I would argue that it was Obama's own use of sexism during the primaries, the media's complicit assistance, and Obama's followers who supported it, that opened the door and created this current environment where people have no qualms about being openly bigoted now.  

    But you are quite right about one thing: Idiots make idiotic statements.


    Parent

    Anne, I often agree with you (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:26:12 PM EST
    but I think that the shrillness we're seeing right now is very likely to help us in the long run. I remember as a child realizing that some white people were simply never going to like or accept blacks. I didn't see a way to change that, nor did most of white America, I'm guessing. But when racists exposed themselves as brutal killers or as supporters of those who did the lynchings, the whole situation changed. Live and let live folks had to come to terms with the fact that racism wasn't going to just fade away. Just as many progressives today "accept" their gay neighbors but won't take a stand for marriage equality, insidious racism was tolerated until the worst of the abusers stepped way over the line and made it clear they would continue fighting equality forever. At that point, good Americans finally took a stand and we got the Civil Rights Act. Racism will probably never go away, but we have one more tool to blast away it's foundations.

    Our society is laced with sexism like a poison seeping through our tissues. We slowly make progress with leaders like Hillary and those great Americans on whose shoulders she and others stand. I hope Sotomayor will be one more incredible role model. But little steps sometimes go hand in hand with great strides forward. Letting the bigots revel in their hatred, and then taking down the Republican senators who choose to wallow in the same trough is the opportunity of a lifetime.

    Parent

    But how far back will we (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:49:06 PM EST
    have to go, and how many old battles will we have to fight again, before we can move forward - and how do we know we will even get back to where we were when all of this started up again?

    Why are we even allowing women to be pushed back?  And why are we trying to use it to make political hay?  I don't think I can adequately express how offensive it is to see women be subjected to overt sexism, and fear facing it myself, after years of trying to really move forward past it, and then be told that ultimately, that may be a good thing.

    It's just wrong, in my opinion, and I truly believe that the lack of leadership on this issue in inexcusable.

    Parent

    I guess I see it as all part of the process (5.00 / 0) (#129)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:01:49 PM EST
    Yes, it's better if Sotomayor et. al. are not attacked using sexism. But we're not there yet. We're not stopping sexism by complaining about Rush being an idiot. Trust me, I follow a lot of winger lists and blogs, and they're already laughing at us girls and girly men for calling them sexist. They can't hear us.

    But we do have a chance to take down some more right wing Senators, and that's an opportunity we shouldn't waste. They're using unelected loudmouths as tools to push their anti-equality agenda, but if they slip up in the confirmation hearings, we should nail them hard, including ads back home exposing them for the bigots they are.

    We have women right here on this blog who are still so mad at Obama they've convinced themselves that McCain and the GOP are not only in support of equality, but are champions of women's rights! I'd prefer to see the good in our Dem Party and recognize the problems that need to corrected to make it better.

    I don't want to go farther back on women's equality, but for all of our little steps, we still haven't stopped sexism. Look how hard it is to prove you're being discriminated against at work. Most sexism is hidden. It's a godsend when your bigot boss makes the mistake of exposing his sexism in an email to other staff. I wish those last few hundred lynchings didn't have to occur before our government got off its butt and made a point of enforcing equal rights, but looking back I can see that's what it took to enact change. And obviously we're not there yet. The attacks will go on, and by looking for ways to use them to further our cause, by being ready to take down the elected Senators who join in the ruckus, we make some good out of their bad.


    Parent

    MLM (none / 0) (#122)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:30:49 PM EST
    I here what you are saying, but the brutal killing of racists existed way before "they exposed themselves"; it was a combination of factors, IMO, that moved things forward, including the willingness of national leaders to call them out and willingness of the press, finally, to expose the brutality.  

    Parent
    errata (none / 0) (#123)
    by BackFromOhio on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:31:19 PM EST
    brutal killing by.... not of...sorry

    Parent
    Okay (1.00 / 1) (#109)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:45:51 AM EST
    Lets start with your first objection- Obama not commenting on these stupid comments.  First- it has been less then a week.  Second the opposition hasn't even figured out what line of attack it is going to go with.  Thirdly at every stop between DC and Nevada he has said how amazingly qualified she is.  Again what more should he do RIGHT NOW?

    Second point.  Your objection to my welcoming the shrillness.  Discrimination gets its way in this country when it is quite.  It was the open casket of Emit Till, the empathy with the tired "mammy" character that Rosa Parked played by not getting up and the pictures of the men and women of the Freedom rides being beaten over the desire to eat a hamburger that sparked the outrage.  Obviously, it was the amazing organizing after these events(and in 2 of these cases before) that moved the country forward.  But without the "shrillness" of the instigating events, there would be no image for the organizers to use.  

    The current state of the Black civil rights movement is an example of how hard it is to move forward when your enemy has figured out how to discriminate in a quite way.  So yes, I welcome the shrillness of the other side, and hope we can use them to knock down these road blocks in the way of more women succeeding.  

    You should tone down your self rightiousness.  

    Parent

    This is more than "stupid comments," (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:24:38 PM EST
    sam, it's part of an environment and an atmosphere - one that is moving us backward, not forward.  

    What makes me, and many others, so angry is that we've already spent a long time fighting these battles, and should not have to be fighting them again, from several steps back from where we had gotten.

    Worse, the attitude seems to be that we don't really have anything to complain about - women can do and be whatever they want, right? - we want to be equal, but we can't take it like the men do - we want it to be easy to be equal.

    And now, we have this environment where people who had been keeping their bigotry and prejudice out of sight feel like they now have permission to let it all out - when the president does it, it must make it okay for everyone to do it, right?

    No, it isn't enough to talk about how qualified Sotomayor is; how, exactly does that counter the sexism?  We know it is possible to nominate and promote women and still be a sexist, because we saw the sexism in practice in the primaries and since - putting Clinton in the Cabinet and Sotomayor on the Supreme Court does not erase Obama's past actions - especially when he sees those appointments as being the end of the discussion, and feels no obligation to speak out about what is happening now.  

    "Tone down" my "self-righteousness?"  What's next, "don't get hysterical?"  

    I rest my case.  


    Parent

    You don't read (1.00 / 1) (#127)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:53:33 PM EST
    Where did I say you have nothing to complain about?  Complain all you want.  Enjoy.

    Parent
    I read just fine, sam. (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:20:34 PM EST
    I never said that you said anything about complaining, never said it was your attitude; if I had wanted to accuse you of saying that, I would have been specific about it.  

    Was describing what I see as "the" attitude that I am hearing - it's called "explaining" my point of view.

    It might be less embarrassing to you if, before you make broad declarations about anyone else's ability to read, you made sure your own comprehension was on target.

    And you either missed the point about complaining altogether, or telling me to "complain all you want.  enjoy." was more revealing of where you stand on this issue than you realize.

    Parent

    Yes, I guess his work here is done... (5.00 / 7) (#71)
    by Anne on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:52:04 PM EST
    who knew all it took was a great speech?

    Does he believe in this nominee, or is he just paying lip service to politics?  

    Jesus Christ on a crutch, this is a man who has young daughters, for crying out loud.  Is this Obama-as-role-model? "Hey, I nominated a woman to the Supreme Court - what more do you want?"

    There is so much more to this than nominations and speeches, and I am sorry that you think that is enough.

    This is the job he signed up for, the one where things don't come at you one at a time.  But then, this is the president who took cheap shots at the LGBT community while he was out in California - maybe there's something in the air out there that makes him say stupid things - or maybe that's just who he is: a man who is all about the politics - something you seem to celebrate - with nothing of substance at his core.

    Last I checked, "leadership" wasn't about leaving the hard work to others - it's about putting yourself on the line for what you believe in.  All I can conclude is that the only thing Obama believes in is himself.

    Parent

    If there is something in the air there (none / 0) (#72)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:58:07 PM EST
    he'd be thinking like me {grin} I was born and raised there. And he was in LA  where I was born. Yup, I'm a Disneyland brat  ;)

    Parent
    The problem (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2009 at 06:00:00 AM EST
    maybe be that Obama sees nothing wrong with these attacks. Have you considered that?


    Parent
    You're kidding right? (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:02:42 AM EST
    We are talking about a nominee to the Supreme Court here.  She is going to have a far deeper impact domestically than a briefing or single visit to the Middle East will have internationally.  

    So yes, from time to time over the next few weeks he should forget Egypt, and forget Palestine for a few minutes and make a forceful show of support for his nominee.  He can help her go into her hearings from a position of strength, or she can go in with her professional and personal reputation battered and bruised.  He has that power.  And he should be using it.

    Five minutes later he can go back to Egypt.  And de Nile.

    Parent

    I think he is way beyond (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by sallywally on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:45:41 AM EST
    being able to walk and chew gum. He can multitask big time. All it would take is a sound bite or sending surrogates to do sound bites. And where's Pelosi, Boxer, etc.?

    Parent
    Yeah, they piss me off with their sexism (5.00 / 10) (#21)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:03:20 PM EST
    But so do Democrats.

    Parent
    Yep, (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:05:48 PM EST
    The outrage at Republican sexism really doesn't have the same sting when we know it's wholly a bipartisan act.

    So what is the status of Bristol Palin's baby today anyway...

    Parent

    Gee, I don't know (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:32:12 PM EST
    Maybe Josh or Markos could tell us.

    Parent
    Rippin on the palin clan... (3.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:29:56 PM EST
    is like ripping on allen keyes.  Both he and sarah are a disgrace to their gender/race.

    Parent
    Sarah Palin (5.00 / 6) (#40)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:35:14 PM EST
    was ripped on for reasons that had nothing to do with her qualifications and everything to do with her genitals.

    I'm not defending who Palin is.  I'm saying every bit of ugliness that Republicans throw at women, Democrats throw just as badly.  Just as badly.  Just AS BADLY. Or maybe it's worse, because Democrats are supposed to be the party "of women's rights".  (Actually they're The Good Old Boy's Party of little women's rights when it's convenient.)

    Parent

    What are you talking about? (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:41:01 PM EST
    Im sorry but if you can watch the couric interviews and not be very, very disturbed by the sheer ignorance of those responses, then I guess theres really nothing more to say.

    Parent
    Oh please (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:02:55 AM EST
    You realize what what you are saying is that her performance during those interviews (and yes, no question that it was disturbing) justifies all the sexist sh!t that was thrown at her.

    And it doesn't.  And if you can't see that then there really is nothing more to say.

    Parent

    You're absolutely right, no one should have (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:43:08 AM EST
    used sexism against Palin.  Sexism hurts all of us, not just the woman it's directed at.

    The problem here is that some paint "the Democrats" as sexist because some Democrats are sexist.  Let's get real.  Palin is scary ignorant and should be nowhere near the red button.    

    But to say or even imply that Democrats are sexist because of what happened to Palin or even to Hillary is absurd. The Democratic Party is absolutely 180 degrees different from the GOP on women's equality, and is still our best chance for furthering feminist goals, regardless of what some Democrats do or say.


    Parent

    What is being said outright (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:57:41 PM EST
    and not implied is that Democratic leadership (not "Democrats") turned a blind eye to the blatant sexism thrown at both female candidates.  That reality should be absurd and yet it's the reality.  

    I am no longer convinced that the Democratic leadership is absolutely 180 degrees different from the GOP on women's equality.  Nor are they

    still our best chance at furthering feminist goals.  
    I submit that feminists are our best chance at furthering feminist goals.  And this is something that Democratic leadership has shown they are not

    Silently sitting back and pulling a lever because a candidate has a "D" after his (pronoun intentional) name is far from sufficient.  Putting our eggs in the basket of our elected officials isn't working anymore for a lot of groups.  And that includes women, unions and single payer advocates.  All groups near and dear to my heart.

    And you're doing again.  You're essentially saying that using all those tactics was fine because Palin shouldn't be anywhere near the proverbial red button.  There was plenty of material out there to limn that fact without resorting to sexism.

    Parent

    Wrong. (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 01:16:09 PM EST
    And you're doing again.  You're essentially saying that using all those tactics was fine because Palin shouldn't be anywhere near the proverbial red button.

    Jeez! Did you even read my comment? I very clearly said: "You're absolutely right, no one should have used sexism against Palin.  Sexism hurts all of us, not just the woman it's directed at."

    No wonder we're getting nowhere fighting sexism. You guys are too busy rewriting my words and attacking other feminists.

    I don't EVER silently sit back and pull the lever for the D candidates. I've been fighting sexism my entire life. And if  you "submit that feminists are our best chance at furthering feminist goals," then why am I being attacked for saying that the sexism we see happening right now gives US the chance to fine tune our response to the sexism we will assuredly see from Republicans in the Senate during the confirmations?

    Let's keep our eyes on the prize.    


    Parent

    Promptly followed by (none / 0) (#116)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 01:27:34 PM EST
    The problem here is that some paint "the Democrats" as sexist because some Democrats are sexist.  Let's get real.  Palin is scary ignorant and should be nowhere near the red button.  

    Which conflates her ignorance with sexism.

    Parent

    OK, I had to think about that possibility (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 01:50:20 PM EST
    I don't mean to conflate sexism and Palin's ignorance. And I certainly don't mean that her ignorance has anything to do with her gender.

    Here's my position:

    1. Choosing Palin was sexist on the part of the GOP. They deliberately picked her for her religion, her gender and her looks so she would appeal to their fundie base, Hillary supporters and moderate men in both parties.
    2. Republicans do not promote or enact policies that support women. Our party does.
    3. Criticizing Palin should have been done without sexism.
    4. Some Democrats are sexist. Many more are not, and in fact many in our Party actively work on behalf of gender equality.
    5. I'm glad the Rethugs are showing their colors because otherwise people start believing they actually care about our feminist agenda, like DancingOpossum saying the GOP somehow supports women even though their selection of Palin proves otherwise, or that McCain is actually a big "defender of women's rights."


    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#119)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:12:52 PM EST
    Thanks for the clarification.

    Parent
    I was in no way defending sexism... (5.00 / 0) (#121)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:25:07 PM EST
    My post was in responding to the assertion that:

    "Sarah Palin was ripped on for reasons that had nothing to do with her qualifications and everything to do with her genitals."

    Everyone I knew was ripping on her based off those enormously ignorant answers in the interview and not her gender.  And anyone who was reveling in sexism should have been immediately castrated.  Thats just not done enough, imo.

    Parent

    separate issues (5.00 / 3) (#99)
    by huzzlewhat on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:08:23 AM EST
    Being uninformed and underqualified doesn't make someone a "disgrace to her gender." Too much of the criticism leveled at Sarah Palin during the election had nothing to do with her qualifications.

    Parent
    Any conservative female... (5.00 / 0) (#126)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:40:41 PM EST
    conservative minority, conservative homosexual, etc. is a disgrace to that aspect of their identity the other conservatives abhor.  Come live in oklahoma for over 30 years and you'll understand.

    And again, Im not endorsing sexism.  No where in my post did I do that.  Youre too quick to jump to that.  It would be like me saying youre a racist against Native Americans if you own stolen land (which, in most all cases, it is).

    Parent

    Disgrace? (none / 0) (#128)
    by huzzlewhat on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:00:17 PM EST
    Come live in oklahoma for over 30 years and you'll understand.

    I don't have to -- I spent the first 20 years of my life in central Pennsylvania. Colloquially referred to as "Pennsyltucky."

    Regardless of whether you feel you are endorsing sexism, calling someone a disgrace to "her gender" because her political views don't align with what you think they should be simply because she's a woman is a sexist statement. Lots of women are conservatives. Lots of women are anti-choice, or anti-gun control, or whatever. To say that a woman must vote a certain way or hold a certain set of beliefs in order to be an acceptable woman is to restrict women's choices. I have plenty of Republican friends who are women; we share a lot of common ground, but we differ on issues that make us of different political stripes. They're just fine as women.

    Parent

    We have gay men in our government (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:12:53 PM EST
    who have voted for policies that hurt LGBT citizens.

    We have women who are so desperate to be accepted by men that they pay thousands of dollars to mutilate their bodies and stuff silicone in their breasts in order to "help them feel better about themselves."

    We have Clarence Thomas.  `Nuff said.

    It might not be a disgrace, but it sure is a shame.


    Parent

    I think that's a change of subject there. (none / 0) (#151)
    by huzzlewhat on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:40:56 PM EST
    The point wasn't about Sarah Palin's need to please men and achieving it through plastic surgery, it was about either her political views or her lack of political information making her a disgrace as a woman.

    Parent
    No their not... (none / 0) (#130)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:09:35 PM EST
    if youre pro life, youre not "just fine".  If you think homosexuals shoulnt be allowed to marry, youre not "just fine".  If you think minorities are poor because theyre lazy and stupid, then youre not "just fine".  If you think we should glass the Middle East and be done with it, youre not "just fine".  If you think we need to build a 100 foot wall between the US and Mexico, then youre not "just fine".

    This isnt just about people disagreeing with me.  This is about vile, disgusting, evil ideological views.  And thats all its about.

    Parent

    so where does gender come in? (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by huzzlewhat on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:26:27 PM EST
    So how does that make her a disgrace as a woman, as opposed to just holding disgraceful views in general? As soon as you bring the fact that she's a woman, ergo, she should hold views x, y, and z or else she's a "disgrace to her gender," you've gone beyond a philosophical or ideological difference that could be argued by either a man or a woman and stuck a label on her about what a woman should think and feel and believe in order to be acceptable as a woman, and that's a sexist statement.

    Parent
    Its a disgrace as a woman... (none / 0) (#153)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:47:25 PM EST
    because, having been a woman, she should know the kind of harassment and unequal treatment women go through in this misogynistic society.  She, like all people, should support others who have been oppressed in this society, but because she's a woman, she should understand more having been there.  

    Just like with minorities.  And any minority who was stupid, ignorant, pathetic and short sighted enough to vote for prop 8 should be burned at the stake, especially since not all that long ago mixed couples couldnt get married.  They should know better, so in that way they are a disgrace.

    I understand what youre saying, but I have no sympathy for those who've experienced oppression yet decide to embrace it or look the other way when it doesnt affect them directly.

    Parent

    I beg to disagree... (none / 0) (#136)
    by vml68 on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:34:22 PM EST
    My parents are pro-life and they don't think homosexuals should marry. It is how they were raised. I don't agree with their views but as far as I am concerned they are good people and "just fine".

    Parent
    Perhaps you could start (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:55:28 PM EST
    referring to their version of marriage as a "religious union", which legally can exclude some citizens, and call the little piece that the government manages and controls what it really is: "civil marriage."

    My new bumper sticker:

       YOUR marriage is between a man and a woman.  
               STFU about MY marriage.

    Parent

    Im assuming you meant... (none / 0) (#138)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:43:50 PM EST
    that you do disagree with their views.  As far as the rest goes, sorry, but they arent "just fine".  My own father doesnt think homosexuals should be able to get married and I openly acknowledge he's a vile, moronic person for thinking that.  So no, issues trump personal connections.

    And the excuse for "it is how they were raised" just isnt good enough.  Child molesters were more often than not raised in that kind of environment, but that doesnt excuse it or make them "just fine" because of it.  When youre an adult you have the ability to choose for yourself whats right and whats not, regardless of how you were raised.  People were raised to believe that committing genocide was ok, but there were those that made the choice to disregard their upbringing and choose what was right.

    And yes, I equated homophobia with child molestation, and yes, I believe its an appropriate analogy.

    Parent

    Is it hard being such a superior being? (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by vml68 on Fri May 29, 2009 at 05:17:09 PM EST
    My own father doesnt think homosexuals should be able to get married and I openly acknowledge he's a vile, moronic person for thinking that.

    The world is not as black and white for the rest of us mortals as it seems to be for you. I would never in a million years call the people who have loved, nurtured, supported and sacrificed for me all these years vile and moronic because they are not as progressive as I would like them to be.

    Parent

    Yeah... (1.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 05:21:28 PM EST
    I guess you dont care as much about equality as I do.  To each their own.

    Parent
    Pat yourself on the back one (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by vml68 on Fri May 29, 2009 at 05:34:19 PM EST
    more time for me will ya....your arms should be long enough by now.

    I guess you dont care as much about equality as I do.


    Parent
    How about this... (none / 0) (#157)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 05:57:01 PM EST
    its really easy to say what you said when youre not gay and have never had your parents disown you for your sexual preference.  

    Ah, what a safe little heterosexual world you live in.

    Parent

    It isn't just equality for someone (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 06:28:40 PM EST
    in your situation - I'm sure it's also about wondering how your parent, the person who is supposed to love you unconditionally, could cut you out of his life.

    We have family friends whose oldest son had sex reassignment surgery about 5 years ago.  His parents simply could not deal with the idea that their son was now their daughter, and they refused to have anything to do with him.

    I just don't understand that, I really don't.  I have two daughters, both of whom are straight, but I cannot imagine effectively ending my relationship because they wanted nothing more than to be who they are and to be loved no matter what.  They are of me, but they don't belong to me; I gave birth to them, but I don't own them.  I always felt it was our job to give them the skills they needed to make their own lives, and loving them was and is a big part of that.  Is it a life I would want for them?  I don't think so.  But it wouldn't be a reason to disown them - there are just some things we cannot control, and withholding our love doesn't work to make things the way we want them.

    So, I think I get that not only do you care about being equal in the eyes of the law and the government, but you deserve to be equal in the eyes of your family.

    I hope someday your father comes to the truth of what love really is, and can see you and love you for yourself.

    Sorry for sort of butting in here, but there was so much pain in your comment, I just could't help it.

    Parent

    I dont know what to say... (none / 0) (#159)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 06:40:20 PM EST
    other than thank you.

    Parent
    Replied in the wrong place. (none / 0) (#150)
    by huzzlewhat on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:27:11 PM EST
    Sorry about that.

    Parent
    Applying your standard (none / 0) (#107)
    by Cream City on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:17:06 AM EST
    I'm sorry, but if you can make this comment and not be very, very disturbed by the sheer ignorance of it, then I guess . . . you're a disgrace to your gender?  Nah.  It's just disgraceful in attempting to justify appalling attacks on someone's gender -- indeed, her entire life -- because of one (edited, btw) interview.

    Parent
    Please point to where in my post... (none / 0) (#124)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 02:33:43 PM EST
    where I said the sexist attacks on her were ok.  Obviously I was responding to the assertion that all the attacks on palin were based off of her gender and not her qualifications.  I in no way endorse sexist attacks on her.  I was only saying that there were attacks on her based off of her overt lack of knowledge.

    Give me some credit CC.  Have I ever posted anything sexist?  Ever?

    Parent

    I'm not CC (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:19:07 PM EST
    Have I ever posted anything sexist?  Ever?

    But actually, you kind of are, right now.  After reading more of comments I see that it isn't your intention to do so, and you really don't think you're doing so.  But when you keep bringing up ignorance and disgrace when the topic is sexism, that's the end result.

    Just so you know why we're all piling on.

    And now I'll stop piling on.

    Parent

    I know youre not CC... (5.00 / 0) (#137)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:35:10 PM EST
    but I was responding to CC on that one.  I have to use the parent button sometimes to figure out whats being said to whom.  

    As far as your point, which I appreciate the clarification, I guess I just disagree.  

    How about this, Im a Native American and quite proud of my culture/heritage.  But lets say theres a really, really stupid person who happens to be Native American, and, of course, people start calling him stupid.  Thats not racist.  I suppose I could make a case for it being racist, since my race has been called the "noble savage" race (talk about your backhanded compliments) and being called a savage denotes a level of stupidity, and therefore I could say that anyone calling him stupid is because stupid has been tied to my people centuries.  But I wont do that because I know that being stupid isnt an aspect of race.  This person happens to be stupid, but its not because of his race.  

    So I'd say that sarah palin is ignorant, but not because of her gender, and calling her ignorant is merely speaking the truth.  Honestly it could be turned around in that, assuming people are referring to her gender because the term ignorant is used can be a kind of sexism in itself.  Almost like giving credence to that stereotype.

    Parent

    Or even more to the point... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:52:06 PM EST
    AAs have been called unqualified for jobs for centuries.  So is calling Obama unqualified to hold the POTUS position racist?

    Parent
    ... because if so... (none / 0) (#141)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 03:53:50 PM EST
    then there are a lot of racists around here.

    Parent
    Only if it isn't true (none / 0) (#145)
    by nycstray on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:08:18 PM EST
    Saying Sotomayor isn't qualified is racist/sexist. I did/do not feel Obama had/has enough strong experience and I literally cringed when he said he would surround himself with smart people as a way of getting around the experience question. I have experience working for guys with that philosophy. My feelings about his experience is not based on race, but resume. You can't look at Sotomayor's resume and come to that same conclusion, though many have. Saying Obama isn't very smart, doesn't have the intellectual heft etc could very well be racist, especially when said by those who are less intellectually gifted and/or haven't engaged in any in depth discussions with him.

    Parent
    About Sotomayor I wholly agree... (none / 0) (#148)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:21:56 PM EST
    from what Ive heard from her, shes completely qualified.  But from what I heard from palin, palin really was ignorant (to ensure theres no attachment to palins gender when speaking the truth about palins ignorance, I'll from now on refrain from using any gender pronouns in relation to palin, if thats what it takes).

    Parent
    It is if (none / 0) (#144)
    by sj on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:06:52 PM EST
    ... one keeps bringing up his race (either outright or by reference) when saying he's unqualified.

    Otherwise, no.

    Parent

    Ok... (none / 0) (#146)
    by Thanin on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:16:37 PM EST
    but Im not referencing palins gender when I say ignorant.

    Parent
    There is nothing about this (4.83 / 12) (#24)
    by Anne on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:04:44 PM EST
    that is "great."

    Nothing.  

    And you know why?  Because sexism is not the sole province of Republicans, and Beltway politics means nothing out in the rest of the world, where the playing field for women has started to look more like a hill than ever before.

    America elected a president who used sexism as a weapon against his most formidable opponent - with the full endorsement of most of the media and his own supporters - and he calls himself a Democrat.  So what good is accruing power if the people within your own party are engaging in sexism themselves?

    Honestly, we are long past the point where we can tolerate this no matter where it comes from, and to be almost cheering it on for craven political purposes that do nothing to root it out is, to be quite honest, insulting.

    Parent

    Yep. I know you said it then (5.00 / 7) (#29)
    by Cream City on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:08:53 PM EST
    in 2008 and so did I and a lot of others here, Anne, who tried to say that the behavior from the top of the campaign would come back to haunt Obama and his backers.  This was inevitable -- and it's not over.

    Parent
    It's certainly not (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:14:26 PM EST
    going to haunt this Supreme Court pick.  She'll sail through.

    And nobody's going to learn anything from it, because with Hillary Clinton, it was justified. After all, she wasn't any woman, she was THAT woman. Therefore, the sexism from Republicans is just an outrageous independent act, has no bearing on anything the Democrats have ever done.  The Democrats are clean.  And very, very non-sexist. Anything they've ever done was justified. They are about women's rights.  Really.

    Parent

    I feel like I've just (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Fabian on Fri May 29, 2009 at 07:43:51 AM EST
    been patted on my head and been called a "good little girl".

    That's the feeling the Democratic party gives me.

    Parent

    I'm surprised (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by jbindc on Fri May 29, 2009 at 07:52:48 AM EST
    There haven't been more whispers about the fact that she isn't married (and was briefly many years ago).  I mean, something must be wrong with her, right? (Maybe she's frigid or <gasp> maybe she doesn't like men!!!)

    Maybe that's why she's such a b***h - she just needs a man in her life to calm her down.

    Blech.

    Parent

    According to a lengthy (5.00 / 4) (#91)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:07:03 AM EST
    article in the NYT the other day, she was married for 7 years, to a fellow law student, I believe.  And when she took the bench, she had a fiance at the robing ceremony - that relationship ended before any marriage took place.  Until I read the article, I had never seen any mention of her marital history, although Steve M. clued me in that she had been married.

    I know people who have never had a relationship that lasted 7 years, much less a marriage.  Some of them are quite successful in their professional lives, so I don't know what that proves, other than that maybe marriage isn't for everyone.

    I'm pretty sure that in some circles there is a belief that her "temperment" would improve if she could just get laid on a regular basis; this is thinking that is usually done with the little head while the big one takes a nap.

    Parent

    Anne (none / 0) (#92)
    by jbindc on Fri May 29, 2009 at 08:26:03 AM EST
    you said it much more eloquently than I.

    Parent
    I would (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:15:39 PM EST
    give you a 10 for your comment if I could.

    Parent
    Ummm... (none / 0) (#25)
    by ruffian on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:04:57 PM EST
    Plenty of professional women didn't seem to let sexism bother them in the primaries. And Republicans can't do much worse with Latinos than they have been. In short, they have nothing to lose.

    Parent
    2008 was the election season that (5.00 / 7) (#15)
    by Anne on Thu May 28, 2009 at 08:43:24 PM EST
    made sexism a sport, made it funny and acceptable again, after years of people at least trying, or pretending, anyway, that they believed in the equality of women, that it was okay for us to rise as far as any man.  2008 has unleashed a lot of people's inner bigots, people who are supposed to represent a higher standard, who now feel free to let it rip against anyone and everyone who did not pop out of the middle-class white man's mold.

    It feels like there are just a few voices out there who are calling it for what it is, and for it to stop - and God Bless them for it - but none with a big enough platform to make a difference.  

    Know who I haven't heard responding to these attacks at all?  Haven't heard taking anyone to task for engaging in it?

    Three guesses.

    Well, the drivers of it during the (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:20:44 PM EST
    primaries weren't just those running the O campaign, but the leaders and many of the spineless elected members of the democratic party. Watching the behavior of the "super" delegates was astonishing.


    Parent
    Good God (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by jondee on Fri May 29, 2009 at 04:45:59 PM EST
    Im starting to think 2008 was the year alot of people awoke from a Rip Van Winkle slumber and actually began paying attention. Those attacks on HRC have been going on pretty much continually since the early ninties; if anything, they were probobly MORE vicious during Bill's tenure.
    Of course, if this were acknowledged then it would be necessary to drop the whole puma post-primary mythology about Obama as the embodiment of all things sexist and acknowledge that underneath it all, more than anything else, it was always more about cutthroat, gutter, typical American politics.


    Parent
    Well (1.00 / 0) (#165)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:29:14 PM EST
    okay. Don't say anything about the GOP's attacks being racist then. When they make fun of her latino roots it's all just gutter politics. Right?

    Parent
    When we see (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:03:42 PM EST
    the nutcracker and the fondled cardboard cutout, we'll know we've exhausted all of the possibilities.

    My God, (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:05:23 PM EST
    the smear campaign against this woman is just unbelievable. It's like they opened a gigantic bottle of sheer ugliness. It's revolting.

    Revolting (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:07:25 PM EST
    But oh, so familiar.

    Parent
    They really upped the onslaught of abuse (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:32:24 PM EST
    this time. Or is it the condensed time frame? A 2 page article on her "temperament"?!

    Parent
    I don't know (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Dr Molly on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:02:19 PM EST
    Between this crap and the continuing revelations about the prisoner abuse photos, I feel that horrible soul-crushing feeling lately.

    Parent
    The sexism began even before (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by oldpro on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:15:59 PM EST
    he named a name...as soon as more than one woman was rumored to be on the list it became the same old game...plain and simple.

    No surprise.

    It should be obvious now (5.00 / 5) (#33)
    by ruffian on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:21:09 PM EST
    even more than in the last few months that the Republican strategy is to fight every single thing Obama does in the most stupid and ugly way possible.  They don't have anything else, since he is meeting them at least half way on most everything, and their leader is Rush Limbaugh.  

    I know someone (and sadly, only one) who would fight back on this very strongly - where is my Sen Al Franken?

    This is a trifecta... (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:39:53 PM EST
    ...for the Party of No--liberal, female and a minority (you can add well educated as well).  I'm a little amazed that it hasn't gotten even uglier than it already is.  The dog whistles diguised as "talking points" aren't quite the foaming at the mouth that I expected.  

    But it is early in the game, so plenty more stupid and ugly to come, I'm afraid. They don't have much to lose and she represents everything that threatens them all in one package.  

    Parent

    I think it's where it is right now (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:52:52 PM EST
    because she hasn't been "public" yet. She hasn't given them anything to pounce on currently, so they are wallowing around in the standard bigot mode until they can start bashing every move she makes as she makes it, up until the hearings and beyond.

    She came out and gave a very gracious speech and then "went away" and will be doing private meetings and such. It will get much worse unless some folks start standing up and putting their feet down and denouncing the hell out of this sh!t. They need to shut it down before she starts going on record in regards to the nomination in the hearings etc.

    If it wasn't baseball and harvest season, I really don't know if my blood pressure could handle another round of this so soon.

    Parent

    Make the distinction (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:28:44 PM EST
    though, between the "mainstream" Republicans and the out-of-power loudmouths who are the ones who are throwing this s**t.  The actual elected Gopers are muttering and grumbling, but none of them I've heard anyway are throwing this kind of flaming bomb.

    Parent
    But shouldn't both the GOP and Dems (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:51:45 PM EST
    who are not speaking out, be held more accountable that those that are spreading the sh!t?

    Why should we make a distinction if they aren't standing up for "us"?

    Parent

    They don't have to, because (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Anne on Fri May 29, 2009 at 06:50:06 AM EST
    their proxies are doing the worst of it for them - although, I think some current members of Congress have said some remarkably stupid and insensitive things.  Can I tell you how less-than-thrilled I am that Jeff Sessions is now the ranking member of Judiciary?  

    I think it's also possible that if the lack of backlash against these attacks continues, some of our more bigoted members of the Senate will be emboldened to be more "honest" in their feelings, will express more of their "concerns," if you know what I mean.

    Parent

    I heard a little of Orrin Hatch (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by ruffian on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:57:27 AM EST
    On NPR this morning. He seemed to be sympathizing with the flame throwers, all the while insisting he would remain above board himself. Amazingly sleazy - to paraphrase, 'I would never ever do such things, but some people will and I can see why, but I would never ever do it.'

    Parent
    Yes, what a horrid slimebag. (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by sallywally on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:59:43 AM EST
    He really exemplifies it perfectly.

    I wonder what it's like to live in a mind like that... I still can't understand how they can live with themselves.

    Parent

    I thought you were a Floridian (none / 0) (#68)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:22:52 PM EST
    n/t

    Parent
    I should have said my Senator in Spirit (none / 0) (#100)
    by ruffian on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:14:56 AM EST
    Sadly, this seems to be the only (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Jjc2008 on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:42:51 PM EST
    blog talking much about the sexism.

    Obviously there is also bigotry based on ethnicity with this, and that is mentioned elsewhere but some of the blogs that were either pretty sexist or silent about the media sexism during the primary, seem to have little to say about the sexist comments being hurled toward Sotomayor.

    Guess I shouldn't be surprised.

    It's also about torture. (5.00 / 5) (#73)
    by DeanOR on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:18:04 PM EST
    This NYT article was about her manner in questioning government lawyers in the Maher Arar case. The article says the Canadian, Arar, is alleging he was sent to Syria to be tortured but neglects to mention that he WAS sent there by the US to be tortured and has been cleared of any connection with terrorism. She asked the government if they were saying they had a "license to torture". That was her sin. I think any humane judge ought to get a little upset in that situation and ought to be 'confrontational'. If that comes from a capacity for empathy, we could have used a lot more of it when we crossed into that dark side.

    That comment of hers struck me also (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by nycstray on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:56:32 PM EST
    I was thinking about pointing that out but didn't  (I'm still pissed on other fronts), but I found it interesting when I read it. Interesting how little play it's getting also.

    Parent
    Ii's a male-dominated world (5.00 / 5) (#75)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu May 28, 2009 at 11:20:39 PM EST
    Steve M.  I doubt very much there's a competent woman, professional or white collar or waitress, who hasn't been hit with that throughout her working life.

    I disagree with those of you who think Obama (5.00 / 0) (#81)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 01:18:10 AM EST
    should jump up right now and call the wingers on their sexism. First of all, it's the non-elected Gopers who are doing it. When the hearings start, we'll have an opportunity to nail the next batch of offenders who are accountable to the electorate. This first round will give us the opportunity to fine tune an anti-racism and anti-sexism message. Let's not overplay our hand yet.

    Rampant misogyny exposed again (5.00 / 4) (#82)
    by pluege on Fri May 29, 2009 at 05:16:03 AM EST
    Personally, I see the attacks on Sotomayar as more misogyny than racism. I do not believe that a male Hispanic selection would have gotten half the grief as Sotomayer, and certainly not the "weak intellect" slander - that slur in this day and age would only be freely and openly vocalized in the case of a woman. Yes, I know, I know that racists slander minorities' intelligence all the time, but it is not PC to do so publicly. OTOH, as we saw in the democratic primary, there is no PC when it comes to publicly defaming women seeking positions of power.

    Oh, of course (5.00 / 5) (#93)
    by DancingOpossum on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:14:05 AM EST

    This first round will give us the opportunity to fine tune an anti-racism and anti-sexism message.

    Obama has to keep his powder dry! And continue playing that oh-so-complicated 11-dimensional chess that just hurts our poor little tender brains to even think about! He doesn't have time for things like confronting blatant sexism, so shut up already you annoying little womenfolks, and go back to your knitting!

    Nope, not good enough. Do you recall when Clarence Thomas was nominated, and Democrats questioned his competence (pre-Anita Hill)? And do you recall the way the GOPers rushed screaming to his defense and assailed the Dems as racists? I sure do. Because that's what they do, and that's what Democrats have yet to learn. It was Democrats who ended up with egg on their face, and guess what--Thomas was confirmed.

    For that matter: Do you remember the way REPUBLICANS, not any prominent Democrats, criticized the raving anti-Hillary sexism of the Obama campaign? How bad is it when John McCain is a bigger defender of women's rights than the entire Democratic Party? (And yes, it may have been self-serving and undoubtedly was, but OTOH the Republicans actually did run a woman on the ticket, something the Democrats could not bring themselves to do.)

    Every day I'm increasingly glad that I didn't vote Democrat in the GE. I am starting to wonder if I ever will again.


    Please don't put words in my mouth. (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 12:04:18 PM EST
    My post says the sexism we see happening right now gives US the chance to fine tune our response to the sexism we will assuredly see from Republicans in the Senate during the confirmations. The GOP is currently using their loudmouthed tools to direct public opinion against Sotomayor. Hopefully, their Senators will soon be exposed for using the same tactics.

    Obama has to keep his powder dry! And continue playing that oh-so-complicated 11-dimensional chess that just hurts our poor little tender brains to even think about! He doesn't have time for things like confronting blatant sexism, so shut up already you annoying little womenfolks, and go back to your knitting!

    Give me a break. I've been a feminist since I was a little kid. You distorted my comment and the intent of my posting, and I see many here 5-rated you in agreement with your misrepresentation of my comments. I'm not making excuses for Obama, I simply pointed out that the GOP is deliberately using their non-elected loudmouths to minimize the effects of pissing of the electorate. If we're not careful, they'll have fine tuned their sexist message by the time of the hearings and Repub Senators will only have to use a few choice buzzwords to remind their sexist followers of Rush, Newt and Roves attacks.

    Let's remember who the real enemy is, OK?


    Parent

    Also, you are promoting the myth that (5.00 / 0) (#117)
    by MyLeftMind on Fri May 29, 2009 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    Republicans further our feminist goals.

    ...but OTOH the Republicans actually did run a woman on the ticket, something the Democrats could not bring themselves to do.)

    They deliberately choose Sarah Palin because of her looks and her appeal to men. They endangered not only our country, but the entire world by promoting an unqualified candidate who possibly wants to see Armageddon happen. Let's not recast that strategy as one that supports women and makes them better than the Democrats.

    Do you remember the way REPUBLICANS, not any prominent Democrats, criticized the raving anti-Hillary sexism of the Obama campaign? How bad is it when John McCain is a bigger defender of women's rights than the entire Democratic Party? (And yes, it may have been self-serving and undoubtedly was...

    This was worse than just self-serving. McCain has a lifetime record that could have shown support and/or activism for gender equality. Instead, he and the GOP's decisions and policies actively hurt women. Just last year McCain supported the anti-woman Ledbetter Act.

    Saying McCain is a defender of women's rights because he tried to co-opt Hillary supporters is not only revisionist, it weakens our feminist agenda.

    Parent

    I did vote Democratic (1.00 / 0) (#106)
    by sallywally on Fri May 29, 2009 at 11:11:24 AM EST
    but I agree with you wholeheartedly. I don't know what I'll do next time.

    We are missing Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, and Al Franken - and Paul Wellstone - in the Senate (I still feel a little conspiracy-theoretical about his death, can't help it).

    As a possible advocate for women across the world (I don't know how much she's been able to do so far), Clinton can't even speak up about this trashing of Sotomayor, it seems. "Mr. Spock" has  taken her out of her most powerful role.

    Except the real Mr. Spock would handle this much differently. He actually COULD play multidimensional chess, and he had a more profound - and honest - way of dealing.

    Parent

    Playing the sex card (1.00 / 2) (#39)
    by diogenes on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:33:21 PM EST
    If you read the whole article, you would note that many lawyers do find her to be strident and overbearing on the bence, whereas you quote one person who describes the whole thing as "sexist".  

    Right (5.00 / 7) (#41)
    by Steve M on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:35:16 PM EST
    One person who happens to be her supervisor, and observed her behavior closely to determine whether the complaints had merit.

    Parent
    Its called strident and overbearing... (4.00 / 4) (#55)
    by Thanin on Thu May 28, 2009 at 10:01:41 PM EST
    when its a woman but considered bold and confident when its a man.  

    Same old story.

    Parent

    It is obviously so (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Thu May 28, 2009 at 09:36:24 PM EST
    Mommy Made Me Do Poop On Big Chair (none / 0) (#1)
    by Sweet Sue on Thu May 28, 2009 at 07:48:22 PM EST
    Color me surprised.
    Too much mommy for their tender egos?
    Tough.

    THANK YOU JEFF ROSEN (none / 0) (#95)
    by lilburro on Fri May 29, 2009 at 09:28:42 AM EST
    God, how many articles of this type must we read?

    Ha ha ha! (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 29, 2009 at 10:17:10 AM EST
    "Some lawyers just don't like being questioned by a woman."

    Say it isn't so!