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Monday Night Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 06:54:26 PM EST
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My guilty pleasure - 2 hours of Family Guy on TBS starting at 8.

Please note that Olbermann still has the dull Turley to comment on legal questions. This fellow simply does not understand legal issues very well. Read this ill informed analysis of Ricci from him. It's like he never actually read Title VII, the amendments thereto, Griggs or Albemarle. For some actual legal analysis of Ricci, here is the ACS blog. Olbermann needs someone better on these things. Back to Family Guy.

Speaking for me only

Update (TL): I am watching The Bachelorette (of course) and hoping to see country music singer Wes, who is not a bad guy despite how ABC is editing him, move on to Spain.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Monday Night Open Thread | 66 comments (66 topical)

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    Davis (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:08:57 PM EST
    It seems as if the Supreme Court has given Troy Davis a few more months to live.

    Good news... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:41:00 AM EST
    we won't be killing the man, but lame that the big court recessed before deciding, possibly delaying a new trial that might open his cage.

    Parent
    wait... (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:26:34 PM EST
    olbermann doesn't walk on water???

    crap! now, i'll have to rewrite the certain hit i was going to post over at...

    My point being (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:29:56 PM EST
    if Olbermann is going to be the Left Wing Limbaugh, which seems to be what he is going for, he might want to have an actual progressive legal commenter - hell, one who actually knows what he is talking about.

    Turley is really, well, not too smart.

    Parent

    if he wants to be the left wing limbaugh (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:42:18 PM EST
    smarts are not required. only the ability to repeat the day's talking point is...

    Parent
    Turley did not even repeat (5.00 / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:43:57 PM EST
    the Left Wing Talking Point.

    Parent
    ahhh (none / 0) (#9)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:53:21 PM EST
    okay- olbermann needs some help getting the hang of this dittohead thing. but i know where he can get that help!

    Parent
    I think Ed Shultz(sp?) (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by Jen M on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 08:03:28 AM EST
    Took the job of being LeftRush

    Parent
    Family Guy's not bad (5.00 / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:22:22 PM EST
    I still record the 2hrs of Seinfeld that come on every day. I don't watch most of them, but. . .

    But, but, but--isn't Family Guy (none / 0) (#21)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 09:09:49 PM EST
    on Fox?

    Parent
    Ach (5.00 / 0) (#28)
    by andgarden on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 09:58:08 PM EST
    I also have a dead tree WSJ dropped at my door every morning. I'm sure that's worse!

    Parent
    The Deputy/Fundraiser Attack in San Diego (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by daring grace on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:19:24 AM EST
    Actually, a suburb of S.D.

    Has this been commented on already around here?

    I'd sort of been aware of it peripherally over the weekend, but finally read an article today.

    WTF?

    Is there some backstory here I haven't heard yet?

    And please note in this article the reporter's asking all the guests/witnesses their ages (They're all women). But we know none of the ages of the deputies or even the incumbent congressman whose office's no comment is noted.

    I guess the relative maturity (chronologically) of the guests/witnesses could serve to make the story all the more hair raising (i.e. how likely is it they could have been perceived as threats to the deputy etc). But still it kind of stuck out.

    Two items on the health care reform (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:07:38 AM EST
    front, from Think Progress:

    The health insurance lobby plans to hold more than 75 townhall and other events around the country this week to rally their supporters on health care reform. "We have really ramped up our efforts to engage the health plan community," said Robert Zirkelbach, a spokesman for AHIP. "We are encouraging health plan employees from across the country to get involved, reach out to their Member of Congress, talk about what they do and the value they're adding to the health care system."

    I don't know whether the AHIP townhalls are a sign that they feel they are losing ground on the reform issue, or they want to provide fodder for media outlets who will portray the townhall and other event attendees as being just ordinary folks like us who do not work in the "health plan community."

    Yesterday, Center for American Progress President John Podesta and former Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle "joined to promote a plan to get roughly one-third of the $1.2 trillion from new tax revenues and the rest from savings in Medicare and Medicaid payments to hospitals, doctors, pharmaceutical companies and other health-care providers." The two said that taxing some employer provided benefits may be necessary.

    Am I the only one who thinks cutting payments to Medicare, Medicaid and other providers by $800 billion isn't going to translate into good care for those who are enrolled in Medicare and Medicaid?

    It's just so weird that there is $350 billion a year in savings from single-payer sitting in the middle of the room, and no one seems to want to see it.  Much better to drain money out of programs that are serving the oldest and poorest Americans, and tax everyone else on their health benefits.  Sure.

    Republicans for years have been trying (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:27:28 AM EST
    to get major cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. Seems the Dems will accomplish what the Republicans could not do. Not only get it passed but increase the amounts of the cuts substantially.  Oh and BTW, wasn't taxing employer provided benefits a major part of McCain's so called health care plan.

    Democratic Party - The political party that can successfully pass Republican legislation and expand and promote Republican agenda items.

    Parent

    Sorta Coup in Honduras (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:09:52 PM EST
    Clinton did not specifically say the return of the ousted president to office is a fundamental U.S. aim, but her spokesman insisted that is an administration objective.

    Under questioning, Clinton said the Obama administration is not, at least for the time being, cutting off U.S. non-humanitarian aid to Honduras as is mandated by Congress in cases where elected governments are ousted by a military coup.

    She said the situation "has evolved into a coup," but she suggested that U.S. aid would continue if the overthrow can be quickly reversed.

    VOA

    Hedging at best..

    More (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:20:54 PM EST
    From digby

    Parent
    not likely (none / 0) (#10)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:56:30 PM EST
    military has shut down the media:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN29390193

    Parent

    What's not likely? (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:04:31 PM EST
    that there was a coup? or that this is democracy at work? Seems to me that those two descriptions are the only two options on the table right now.

    Parent
    not likely that this will (none / 0) (#13)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:07:00 PM EST
    quickly be reversed. it's a full on coup.

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#14)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:18:41 PM EST
    Yes it seems so, although the military is arguing that it is not a coup at all, but the workings of democracy as President Zelaya broke the law according to their constitution and was removed according to the laws of Honduras.

    Obviously this has been simmering for some time and the WH has been fully aware of the situation for some weeks. There are 500-600 US soldiers there as well.

    For Clinton to hedge on calling this a coup, means something. Clearly President Zelaya does not have many friends in his government, and is supposedly at 30% approval rating. My guess is that the US is hoping that the Honduras government somehow proves that this was an entirely legal maneuver because Zelaya is apparently close to Chavez and Chavez is not so friendly with the US.

    Parent

    it's a coup (none / 0) (#16)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:22:33 PM EST
    the oas, the eu, the administration, the secretary general all have condemned it...

    the military apparently took action even before the supreme court and the congress stepped in. there is nothing in the honduran constitution to justify this course.

    Parent

    Yes, But (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:37:41 PM EST
    Obama and Clinton have not been unequivocal while the OAS, the EU or UN have. Do you think it is just a more laid back style? Or that Clinton actually believes that this will be resolved tomorrow?

    Sure seems like a coup to me, but then again so did the one in Haiti and that was swept under the rug in a few days as business as usual.

    Parent

    i assume (none / 0) (#19)
    by Turkana on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:39:31 PM EST
    they're being very careful, in public, because of what they're trying, in private.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 09:47:01 PM EST
    Seems that is what is happening, rather obviously though, only because we have the strongest hand in that we own the military, are the only ones who seem to be equivocating about the coup.

    Parent
    Re: "We own the military" (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:36:25 PM EST
    Is it your opinion the U.S. is behind the Honduran coup?

    Parent
    Not Entirely (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:56:19 PM EST
    But I think that the cards have been dealt so that US interests will be respected.

    I am sure that the US has done what it can to deflect the influence of Chavez. From what I understand the deal is that President Zelaya, who in at least one report has already been referred to as Mr. Zelaya, wlll be permitted to return to Honduras as a regular citizen as long as he denounces Chavez and breaks off contact with him. Otherwise he is in permanent exile.

    There is no doubt, imo, that if the US could have stopped the Miltary from taking over the country, if it felt strongly about it.

    Parent

    WSJ: Two Presidents??? (none / 0) (#34)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:01:38 AM EST
    The new "president" calls himself a right-wing progressive.

    WSJ

    Parent

    1958 (none / 0) (#7)
    by SOS on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 07:42:53 PM EST
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6pUMlPBMQA

    Watching the Brewers beat the Mets (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:01:02 PM EST
    (so far--bottom of the 6th, 3 to 2).  

    Hey! (none / 0) (#17)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 08:28:03 PM EST
    had a second computer go down on me in as many days on Sat, so I couldn't respond to cabin question :)

    It's free, in the mountains and 2hrs from my folks. I need to be there to help mom with dad (along with wanting to spend time with dad), plus I'm ready for a city break. Not sure if I'm ready for totally cutting off my NY life though . . .  but the cabin sure is a slice of life I would like and I can just see the Dot running around in sheer glee on a day like this :)

    Parent

    Beautiful. (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 09:09:05 PM EST


    Parent
    It is, isn't it? :) (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 10:34:16 PM EST
    I haven't been there with that much snow at cabin level, but have nice memories of winter holidays there. Grabbing mom and niece for a cross country skiing day (aka learning how!), Christmas mornings with the cold and wood stove, and then there are the summer days with the lakes and rivers :)

    The front area land/soil isn't good for produce growing, but I can do raised beds and containers on the space. It get's great sun.

    I'm looking forward to the advantages of living there. Downside, Bay Area sports teams need to up their game ;) Yes, I'll be wearing my NYC sports gear until they up their game!

    Parent

    Interesting comment (none / 0) (#24)
    by Steve M on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 09:48:37 PM EST
    Makes me sort of jealous of Turley, really.  I wish my mom would defend me on the Internet once in a while.

    I'm sure you do (none / 0) (#26)
    by mstar57 on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 09:51:36 PM EST
    but I wouldn't hold your breath if I were you - even she knows what a waste of time that would be..

    Parent
    That comment has been deleted (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:14:53 PM EST
    for name-calling. It's not allowed here.

    Parent
    I've already deleted the comment (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Jun 29, 2009 at 11:15:18 PM EST
    you are replying to.

    Burger King (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:30:39 AM EST
    Goes over the top with their new BJ ad pimping "the seven incher"

    Second Mysterious Air Crash (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:49:45 AM EST
    Another Airbus A330 crashed in the Indian ocean on the way to Yemin. 147 people missing.

    Probably a good idea to avoid getting on an Airbus A330, imo.

    Yikes (none / 0) (#37)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:56:42 AM EST
    I think I agree with you about the A330, and I'm not prone to freaking out about such things.

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#38)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:59:22 AM EST
    The one that went down on the way to Brazil was an A310.

    Best to avoid the whole Airbus A series, imo.

    Parent

    Reversed (none / 0) (#39)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:01:31 AM EST
    Air FRance Brazil: Airbus 330

    Today's Yemeni plane: Airbus 310.

    Parent

    I see that (none / 0) (#40)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:03:15 AM EST
    So I take back what I said: this is too different to draw any conclusions.

    Parent
    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:16:01 AM EST
    A bit confusing. AFP has the Yemeni plane that went down today as a A330-200. The plane left from Paris. Same model as the Air France that went down June 1.

    NYT and WAPO have todays crash as as an Airbus 310.

    Danage control or just confusion?

    Parent

    Well, I'm confused (none / 0) (#43)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:18:36 AM EST
    and I'm not flying any time soon. So I'll let this shake out.

    Parent
    Scarebus (none / 0) (#46)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 03:21:40 AM EST
    I don't like 'em. I much prefer Boeings. And I'm flying in...um...a week. I think I'm on Boeings all the way through, and I'm going across the Pacific.

    Gah. I don't want to think too much about it, as often as I do it.

    Parent

    Shake Out (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:03:08 PM EST
    The Yemenia flight started at Paris Charles de Gaulle on Monday morning, using a more modern Airbus A330-200 for the first legs of the journey.

    The plane flew to Marseille in southern France, where there is a large Comoran community, and then went on to Sanaa. There were about 100 passengers on board when it left Marseille, Yemeni civil aviation official Kader said.

    In the Yemeni capital, people from various Arab states joined the flight and the passengers changed to the Airbus A310 which first flew to Djibouti.

    link

    One child has been rescued alive..


    Parent

    Bear with me but. . . (none / 0) (#41)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:09:04 AM EST
    What David Brooks said/

    UGH (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:27:37 AM EST
    Yes Bush rammed a war down congress throat and used 911 fearmongering and bullying to get his way with congress. But to suggest that Bush's coherent plans were good policy is nuts.

    The logical conclusion that Brooks wants to impart, imo,  is that GOPers are better at running the country. Dems are just pork laden wishy washy losers.

    Wingnut logic.


    Parent

    I don't see what you see in the column (none / 0) (#45)
    by andgarden on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 01:34:28 AM EST


    Parent
    Neither do I. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Fabian on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 08:48:21 AM EST
    Better to present a clear compelling vision and let Congress hammer out the details than to to let Congress play politics until the original idea is completely unrecognizable.

    If you think the point of the exercise is to get the best, most effective legislation possible - then it is imperative that someone ride herd on the process.  

    If you think the point is to make as many people happy as possible, then you'll get an ineffective, unwieldy bill that makes many insignificant changes but almost no significant ones.

    IOW - if you want results, you need to be prepared to do unpopular and personally uncomfortable things.  

    Parent

    OK (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:19:55 PM EST
    I do not trust Brooks, and here he is describing what appears to be happening in COngress. That is annoying in itself. But he has an agenda and it is not reporting just what appears to be happening. His whole point, imo, is political, not analytical, and is intended to suggest that Obama is a bad president compared to Bush or any other proto fascist GOPer. If Obama were only like Bush, he would have solved the Financial crisis, and Health Care crisis, and the energy crisis, by telling congress what to do, and if he had the right stuff, like bushCo, Congress would do his bidding without blinking.

    To say that the Dems have not learned to control corporate america is only to imply that the GOP had corporate america tied around their little finger. Well if appointing industry leaders to regulatory committees as watchdogs is controlling corps, I have a bridge to sell you.

    Instead of bashing the dems and praising the focused machine of the GOP as he does in his conclusion, I would come up with a different conclusion.

    Swimming upstream is 100% more difficult than swimming downstream. Most of congress is owned by business, and most congresscritters believe that with enough money they can get people to vote for them even if they are not representing their interests. ANd sadly that goes for both Dems and GOPers.

    The insurance industry has spent billions to maintain their grip, legislating from the executive branch is not so easy as Brooks makes it out to be, imo.

    Would I like to see Obama be way more assertive, yes. Do I think that he could present a single payer health care plan tied up with a nice bow and get congress to pass it, no.

    Parent

    and as for Wes... (none / 0) (#47)
    by otherlisa on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 03:37:12 AM EST
    regardless of editing, nuh-uh. He is not a nice guy. His eyes never move. Something is not right there.

    you know what? (none / 0) (#49)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 08:35:24 AM EST
    I liked some of the things Obama said yesterday during the GLBT reception.  I might even believe he meant it when he said that by the time he leaves office the GLBT community will be pretty happy with the Obama administration.
    in particular I liked the fact that he compared our struggle for equal rights to that of the african americans struggle for equal rights.
    that one little statement is going to pi$$ off a lot of people.
    as for me.  he just got an extension.
    Just remember.... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by sj on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:47:48 AM EST
    Watch what they do, not what they say.

    Parent
    he got an (5.00 / 0) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:50:12 AM EST
    extension.  not a pass.


    Parent
    An 8 year extension? (none / 0) (#57)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:54:32 AM EST
    "...he said that by the time he leaves office the GLBT community will be pretty happy with the Obama administration."

    Parent
    all I can say is (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:57:29 AM EST
    that, at least to me, he seemed sincere.  I have not seen him seem sincere many times.  also I understand why he might want to get some other things done before he drops the gay bomb.
    he gets an extension.


    Parent
    But would he have told AAs... (none / 0) (#53)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:32:25 AM EST
    ...to be patient during the civil rights struggle?  I seriously doubt it.  I don't think it behooves ANYone to believe ANY poltician who says, in effect, just wait 'til next year.  Especially when basic rights are in question.    

    Parent
    even a blind squirrel (none / 0) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:17:31 AM EST
    occasionally finds a nut.

    Open the Military Closet

    By Richard Cohen
    Tuesday, June 30, 2009

    So, BTD... (none / 0) (#54)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 09:33:29 AM EST
    The Cleveland Show--great spin-off or greatest spin-off?

    Or a modern day "Joanie loves Chachi"?

    I think... (5.00 / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:51:00 AM EST
    Quagmire needs his own spin-off...he often steals the show.

    Giggity Giggity!

    Parent

    I agree. (none / 0) (#64)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:58:53 AM EST
    There would seem to be more comedic plot-lines that you could develop with Quagmire.

    Maybe they'd be too racy for broadcast TV though.  

    Giggity indeed.

    Parent

    US spy says that he was... (none / 0) (#61)
    by desertswine on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 10:40:01 AM EST
    just following orders.

    ROME (Reuters) - A former U.S. spy at the center of a kidnapping trial in Italy appeared to acknowledge a role in the abduction of a Muslim cleric but said he was only following orders, according to a rare interview published on Tuesday.

    Well, it looks like President Obama (none / 0) (#65)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 11:00:12 AM EST
    has bought some time from the mostly enthusiastic response of the attendees at the Stonewall gala.  It is easy to get co-opted, what with the young president, his beautiful wife, the historic majesty of the White House, nice speech, and free food and drink.   The idea I liked best was that impatience is understandable when you are on the receiving end of discrimination. However, the pretty sentiments would be more meaningful if some steps were presented, from time to time, evidencing the president's fierce advocacy. Maybe, updates on those Pentagon studies initiated on DADT, public prodding of Pelosi and Reid on DOMA repeal, and, of course, showing Holder the door.  It would be good sign of accountability for the cruel and unnecessary briefs that accompanied the DOMA motion, and the discredited arguments and canards included in the Solicitor General's filings before the Supreme Court on maintaining DADT.

    I have not seen many (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 11:04:23 AM EST
    "enthusiastic" responses to the event.  mostly cautious optimism.  I agree he needs to start addressing some of the things you mention.


    Parent
    My characterization of the (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 30, 2009 at 12:24:00 PM EST
    response of those attending the White House event was based on watching the video--the screams, laughter, applause.   However, the festive feelings shown may just be a cheerful breath as some of the internal and external oppression was lifted.  Since the attendees are "leaders" it is my hope that the aura  will be tempered with the reality and hard work of leadership.

    Parent
    Monday Night Open Thread | 66 comments (66 topical)

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