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Ras Poll: Removing Public Option Craters Support For HCR

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Other Politics
Posted on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 12:49:15 PM EST
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This is me in shill mode - citing Ras issue polls to flack my point of view.

This poll does point to something I think is true - the heath care reform bill now has two potential endings - pissing a lot of people off (Republicans plus GOP leaners, roughly 47% of the electorate), or pissing everyone off (if HCR without a public option.)

What about no bill? Pisses everyone off, but not so much. President Obama now finds himself with little maneuver room.

Speaking for me only

< In Case You Were Wondering, Blue Dogs Opposing HCR | Remember No Drama Obama? >

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    Ras Poll: Removing Public Option Craters Support For HCR | 31 comments (31 topical)

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    Gibbs: (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 12:55:25 PM EST
    There are Blue Dogs on the Energy and Commerce committee who voted out a public option before the recess.

    They'll walk (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:02:51 PM EST
    I think they'll walk away from it. They might resurrect it again as a campaign issue at the mid terms if they they think it will help. For now I think Obama would rather walk away than lose.

    I'm afraid at this point he would consider (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:12:26 PM EST
    walking away and losing to be the same thing.

    Hope this poll changes his mind.

    Parent

    If he gets nothing passed... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:45:49 PM EST
    ... he's going to be seen as failing, which would be hard to recover from. If a bill passes, he's going to own it for the rest of his Presidency, and the Democrats will own it (and have to defend it) longer than that. So they'd all be well served to pass what they think is the best bill, and be prepared to spend the next decade or more defending it.

    In the long run, if it becomes an accepted and admired program like Social Security, or an imperfect but still generally considered indispensable one like Medicare, the Republicans will pay for having opposed it.

    Parent

    I was hoping you would shill this (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:03:38 PM EST
    because it is even more powerful due to perceived bias by ras......

    Ras thinks he is causing trouble (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:04:27 PM EST
    Maybe he is, but it is trouble I personally welcome.

    Parent
    lets get something clear here (none / 0) (#13)
    by Socraticsilence on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:28:17 PM EST
    its not "percieved" bias by Ras- its a clear an persitent bias, heck just look at the TalkLeft Archives- I'm almost certain BTD had something about it near the election when people were getting unnecessarily worried by Ras.

    Parent
    Ras polls (none / 0) (#19)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:36:31 PM EST
    Particularly Ras ISSUE polls are useless, except for shilling purposes, the purpose for which I employ this Ras poll.

    I am not arguing seriously that these results mean anything. That siad, I think the story the poll is telling happens to be true, but I have no reliable quantitative data to prove that. A Ras poll, by definition, is not reliable quantitiative data.

    Parent

    No I wasn't (none / 0) (#20)
    by Socraticsilence on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:39:32 PM EST
    trying to make the case you were arguing seriously, its just the above posters use of percieved kind of bugged me, its like when you talk to someone about global warming and they say "it 'seems' like the evidence says its occuring and is a by product of human actions but hey we can't really know"

    Parent
    i wouldn't equate (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:46:05 PM EST
    ras with global warming groupers but your point is noted.  I know btd has voiced his stance with ras repeatedly I don't share it in its entirety....

    Parent
    I vote no bill... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:10:22 PM EST
    cuz any bill we're gonna get is gonna benefit insurance companies more than random sick people.

    Shut it down and try again after things get worse...apparently things ain't bad enough out there for enough people for us to discuss this intelligently as a country...we need to grow up a little, and if we don't/can't then maybe we don't deserve a better health care delivery system.

    Try again later... (none / 0) (#32)
    by jeffhas on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 09:22:09 PM EST
    After the economy has recovered.  I think people are just scared of the EVERYTHING that is going on.  

    In a year or two if the economy is strong, and maybe we are even getting close to bufget targets, the case can more easily be made that we can afford HCR.

    Parent

    I guess no one notices (5.00 / 7) (#11)
    by SOS on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:23:30 PM EST
    insurance and big pharm is spending $100 million to run Obama ads using the president's language about "bipartisan" solutions to health care reform.

    It's not hard to figure out really. Unless one can't think.

    They're running ads for Cantwell too (none / 0) (#26)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:06:53 PM EST
    I saw two of them on TV last night.

    "Call Maria Cantwell and thank her for working hard to reach a bipartisan solution on health care..."

    Disgusted, but not at all surprised. After all, this is Maria "I have no regrets about my Iraq War Vote" Cantwell.

    Parent

    Oh yes (none / 0) (#30)
    by Spamlet on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 03:07:25 PM EST
    How do you solve a problem like Maria?

    I remember her NAFTA vote when she was in the House. Congresscritters to her right and left were boasting about how they had bargained with Bill Clinton for this or that goody in exchange for a "yes" vote. Maria? Her boast was that she had voted "yes" without asking Clinton for anything.

    And someplace I probably still have her e-mail response to my message about how I wanted her to vote on the AUMF: "A vote to authorize military force is not a vote for war."

    Parent

    I mean, to me, this poll says (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by masslib on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:41:23 PM EST
    Democrats who favor Obama's reforms heavily favor it for the public option, few others favor Obama's reforms.  Am I missing something?

    I think you get it (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:48:17 PM EST
    The part we're missing is why we have to cater to the people who don't want reform at all.

    Parent
    Well, I would support one of (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by masslib on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:52:12 PM EST
    two reforms.  A)A national medicare like public option for anyone.  B) Heavy, European style regulations on private insurers that squeeze the profit out.

    I actually do not support the bill as it has been discussed so far.  I don't mind spending money covering people(I'm w/out coverage myself), but I do mind spending money stupidly.  I really don't support subsidies for private health insurer profits.

    Parent

    Every time I see HCR (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by weltec2 on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 07:43:28 PM EST
    something in my eye muscles makes it HRC for just a moment. I think I may be going cross-eyed.

    Did you miss my first sentence? (none / 0) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:20:06 PM EST


    The poll result is off message for Ras (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by magster on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:23:52 PM EST
    so I would tend to believe it.  Especially when the difference is that dramatic.

    Parent
    I guess the PPUS (none / 0) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:22:39 PM EST
    standard would be to walk away or would it be to pass a crappy bill? I guess we'll see.

    Really significant IMO is the (none / 0) (#10)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:23:28 PM EST
    question asked in last weeks poll showing a major drop in support. Per article in post:

    Last week, Rasmussen Reports tracking found that support for the Congressional plan was at 42%.

    While the tracking question did not specifically mention the public option, it referred to the bill proposed by the president and congressional Democrats now working its way through Congress.

    Even this weeks question mentioning a public option differs substantially to the original question asked that received 76% approval. The poll that received 76% approval asked "Do you support a government-administered insurance plan -- something like Medicare?

    No wonder the polls are showing shrinking support. Many people do not know what is in the general health plan or disagree with some aspect of it that has absolutely nothing to do with a public option. Also, many people do not fully understand what the public option really is and many oppose it because it is not single payer.

    Would like them to poll the original question again to determine public support. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges.

    WH probably already had results like this (none / 0) (#14)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:28:28 PM EST
    Hence the push over the least week to change public opinion to a state of 'public option is nice but not necessary for reform'.

    Huh. (none / 0) (#15)
    by masslib on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:31:56 PM EST
    "As for those not affiliated with either major party, 70% are opposed if the public option is dropped. That's up from 62% in the previous survey."

    How many indies support it with the public option?

    I mean, he doesn't say (none / 0) (#18)
    by masslib on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:36:14 PM EST
    how many support it with, could be low, could be high.  He only says it has more opposition without, but how much more?  

    Parent
    The public has always been ... (none / 0) (#16)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:32:20 PM EST
    ahead of the politicians on this one.

    Politically, if this passes, the Progressive Caucus will be the big winner.  It will increase their power and prominence.  And could help move the White House to the left on other issues.

    On the chess side of things, this will enrage the Republicans and cause them to act even loonier,  strengthening the position of centrist Dems.  Even the lamest of them will look like statesmen in comparison.

    This bill is not great.  But I have to support it because (a) it could help, and (b) it's the first chance in years (decades?) for the progressives to lead on an important issue.

    Every sign is that Obama has dropped the public (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by masslib on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 01:35:02 PM EST
    option, so...

    Not sure what you are saying.

    Parent

    It doesn't appear ... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:00:52 PM EST
    it can pass the House without it.

    Parent
    Exactly so. (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:08:38 PM EST


    Parent
    So (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 19, 2009 at 02:08:53 PM EST
    IMO therefore no "reform".

    Parent
    Ras Poll: Removing Public Option Craters Support For HCR | 31 comments (31 topical)

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