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Health Care Suggestions I Could Do Without

Someone touted me to this article in The Atlantic about how we should be revising our health care system.

I disagree with almost every idea in it. Not surprisingly, a businessman wrote it. Everyone knows health insurance companies are a large part of our health care problem. But the writer's suggestions are far worse in my view.

Some of the worst of his proposals: Everybody pays for their own medical care personally -- no insurance except for catastrophic things, which would limited to events costing over $50k. How would people pay for their expenses up to that amount? They should use their savings or put it on a credit card. Unless they are dirt poor, and then the government would pay for all of it directly. Everyone would be required to have a Health Savings Account and contribute to it. What about Medicare? Abolish it of course, and let the elderly stop getting so many tests and procedures and pay for their own end of life care. What if they can't afford it? Whip out that credit card. [More...]

On Medicare:

Well, Medicare spends almost twice as much per patient in Dallas, where there are more doctors and care facilities per resident, as it does in Salem, Oregon, where supply is tighter. Why? Because doctors (particularly specialists) in surplus areas order more tests and treatments per capita, and keep their practices busy. Many studies have shown that the patients in areas like Dallas do not benefit in any measurable way from all this extra care. All of the physicians I know are genuinely dedicated to their patients. But at the margin, all of us are at least subconsciously influenced by our own economic interests. The data are clear: in our current system, physician supply often begets patient demand.

Translation: Cut care for seniors.

Typical businessman mentality:

Our society will always keep creating new treatments to cure previously incurable problems. Some of these will save lives or add productive years to them; many will simply make us more comfortable. That’s all to the good. But the cost of this comfort, and whether it’s really worthwhile, is never calculated—by anyone. For almost all our health-care needs, the current system allows us as consumers to ask providers, “What’s my share?” instead of “How much does this cost?”—a question we ask before buying any other good or service. And the subtle difference between those two questions is costing us all a fortune.

Who else would attach a "whether its worthwhile" to a break-through cure or treatment or test that adds productive years to one's life or makes someone more comfortable?

He compares getting an MRI or CT Scan to buying a new DVD player. If hospitals had fewer machines, the price would come down.

He even opposes the government proposal to invest money on digitizing medical records.

His overall solution: Let's have

...routine care funded largely out of our incomes; major, predictable expenses (including much end-of-life care) funded by savings and credit; and massive, unpredictable expenses funded by insurance.

Here comes his catastrophe plan, the one in which a catastrophe equates with $50k or more. We would have a

...single program of catastrophic insurance open to all Americans—indeed, all Americans should be required to buy it—with fixed premiums based solely on age. This program would be best run as a single national pool, without underwriting for specific risk factors, and would ultimately replace Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. All Americans would be insured against catastrophic illness, throughout their lives.

The least of my fears is how to pay for a catastrophic illness. It's the ones in between a few grand and $50 grand people want -- and need -- insurance for. His shorter version:

...How would we pay for most of our health care? The same way we pay for everything else—out of our income and savings. Medicare itself is, in a sense, a form of forced savings, as is commercial insurance. In place of these programs and the premiums we now contribute to them, and along with catastrophic insurance, the government should create a new form of health savings account—a vehicle that has existed, though in imperfect form, since 2003.

...Every American should be required to maintain an HSA, and contribute a minimum percentage of post-tax income, subject to a floor and a cap in total dollar contributions. The income percentage required should rise over a working life, as wages and wealth typically do. All noncatastrophic care should eventually be funded out of HSA's.

Next we have more discrimination against the elderly:

What about care that falls through the cracks—major expenses (an appendectomy, sports injury, or birth) that might exceed the current balance of someone’s HSA but are not catastrophic? These should be funded the same way we pay for most expensive purchases that confer long-term benefits: with credit. Americans should be able to borrow against their future contributions to their HSA to cover major health needs; the government could lend directly, or provide guidelines for private lending.

Catastrophic coverage should apply with no deductible for young people, but as people age and save, they should pay a steadily increasing deductible from their HSA, unless the HSA has been exhausted. As a result, much end-of-life care would be paid through savings.

What about people who can't afford to use the money in their mandatory HSA's for preventive care and check-ups? The Government will provide vouchers for a check up every two years.

And he supports a new private industry: Health care agents who charge consumers to guide them through the myriad of new choices open to them once they no longer rely on insurance. Just what we need (no thank you.)

Oh, and that specialty treatment you need? The one where you might want a certain doctor you know and trust to perform it? Why bother, when you can go to one of the many "Convenient, lower-cost specialty centers" he says will proliferate.

A really funny part is where he addresses critics of his plan, only to say they are right and he has no answer to their valid points:

Many experts oppose the whole concept of a greater role for consumers in our health-care system. They worry that patients lack the necessary knowledge to be good consumers, that unscrupulous providers will take advantage of them, that they will overspend on low-benefit treatments and under-spend on high-benefit preventive care, and that such waste will leave some patients unable to afford highly beneficial care.

...They are right, of course. Whatever replaces our current system will be flawed; that’s the nature of health care and, indeed, of all human institutions....Because health care is so complex and because each individual has a unique health profile, no system can be perfect.

He ends with:

It would take a full generation to completely migrate from relying on Medicare to saving for late-life care; from Medicaid for the disadvantaged to catastrophic insurance and subsidized savings accounts.

Let's hope it's a lifetime or two -- or never before such a silly plan comes into effect. And that this writer sticks to whatever business he's in, because as he said at the beginning, he knows nothing about health care. If I didn't know better, I'd suspect the article was satire written by someone in the insurance industry who wants to make us realize how lucky we are to have our expensive and flawed insurance policies. It worked. After reading this article, I hope even more that the Government leaves its hands off my Anthem and my Medicare and provides a public option for those without access to either.

Garbage in, garbage out. From start to finish. But hey, go give it a read.

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    "Businessmen" (5.00 / 6) (#1)
    by cawaltz on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 07:45:02 PM EST
    are the problem. The way health care is set up is so businessmen can profit off it. Frankly, the system ought to be set up in a way that caps the profit margins and puts the emphasis back on patient care.

    The rest of the world has given up (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 07:57:14 PM EST
    on making a profit delivering healthcare to human beings.  I'm fine joining them.  If drugs are good we'll all buy them, I'll pay extra for better drugs and our doctors will prescribe them....I'm tired of the new drug racket though.  And I have met doctors on the cutting edge, if they are good at it they are rich even in this fubar system.  That won't change and I don't know a single one of them that had that as a goal.  They are tending to their passion that feeds them.  Doctor Smith at Salt Lake Children's who did our son's initial titanium implant is an amazing person, who doesn't seem to know how to be rich now, but I think his wife is helping him :)  She did decide that the children needed to live half the year in France to enrich their growing up so when he visited his family on breaks he went into the hospitals in France and taught their doctors how to do this titanium rib thing because he wanted to.

    Parent
    I go to an excellent community clinic (5.00 / 4) (#16)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:17:16 PM EST
    which is funded by different levels of local and state government, as well as from cash-out-of-pocket patients and those who do have insurance. I know the clinic is operating pretty close to the bone but they have really saved me. I love the care I get there. I can't believe how little I pay for prescriptions -- yes, they are generics and they work really well.

    But clinics aren't able to do everything, so I hope I'm gainfully employed soon enough to get good coverage and the back surgery I need. The knees will have to wait. People like D. Goldhill are distanced enough from reality to believe that if I could just get enough "incentives" I'd have access to all the healthcare I need.  

    Parent

    I'm pulling for you (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:28:20 PM EST
    I'm fighting for you.  I sent money to fight for you today!  I don't know if we'll win but I'm fighting.

    Parent
    Thanks MT! I and 47 million others appreciate it (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:49:26 PM EST
    I'm in that nebula that self-employed, and then unemployed, often find ourselves. Maybe all the efforts you and all of us are making will bear fruit. Wouldn't that feel like something of an accomplishment? Thank goodness I'm frugal and actually have savings and no debt. But I'm coming to terms with the time frame: if nothing is going to be put into place until 2013-2017, I'll have to raid the savings acct.

    If I was right on the line of poverty/bankruptcy I'd be freaking out. As it is, I turn 50 this year, and like all 50 year olds, I have a few chronic conditions and a high risk for others.

    I'm so glad I quit smoking 14 years ago. I recommend it to everyone who can!

    Parent

    I just got a physical exam (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:06:41 PM EST
    as a baseline for heading out of the decade you're entering -- and my health is better now than it was at the baseline exam when turning 50!  Those were stressful years, and definitely years when I was starting to put on weight.  Quitting smoking is great, but weight at midlife really can take a lot out of life.  Finally, about a year and a half ago, I decided to get some help to get serious about nutrition and learned a lot.  The recent great physical is the result.

    If I had it do over again, I would have watched more carefully at 50, as the weight was starting to sneak up on me, so incrementally.  It would have been a lot easier to lose 10 pounds then than it was to lose 30 now -- but the high blood pressure is almost gone, the cholesterol levels are back to normal, the energy level is up.  No more odd aches and pains and back problems and knee problems and more that kept me going to the doctor again and again beginning at your age.

    All just a way of saying that, unless and until we fix this health care situation, there is a lot you can do to keep health problems from happening -- and so you can have a happier decade than I did.  Now, as Steinem said, 60 will be the new 50 for me, too! Take care. :-)

    Parent

    Good for you, Cream! (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:49:18 AM EST
    Taking an aggresive role in our own healthcare does make a difference. Better late than never, for sure. Not eating dinner after 7:30 p.m. helps!

    While I have gained some weight recently, the back and knee problems began when I was 22 years old, thin and athletic. Then I made a career of housepainting and that eventually put things over the edge. I was definitely in denial for some time, thinking I was invincible -- oh wait, invincibility, that myth of youth...

    Parent

    he thinks his proposal (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 07:48:21 PM EST
    will do that

    Parent
    His logic from (none / 0) (#7)
    by cawaltz on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:03:17 PM EST
    an economic viewpoint is all over the place. With Medicare he says that having access to doctors and hospitals drives cost up. Using that logic we should just close all the doctors' offices and the viola' we've solved that problem.

    I understand 'some' of what he is saying. The insurance companies may have indeed some artificial inflation in prices. There is something wrong with the idea that there is a two tier pricing system. If I go to the hospital for an appendectomy my price with versus without insurance are two entirely different animals.

    Parent

    Abuses (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:28:14 PM EST
    Yes, hospitals can abuse insurance. The day before my sister died, (she had terminal cancer of everything) the hospital was still running tests and giving her transfusions. When I asked the doctor if any of this was doing her any good, he couldn't answer me. As her care giver I convinced her to sign up for hospice because the treatment had become too painful for her to bear. She died peacefully the next day.

    I was fortunate in that her lawyer had warned me that there would come a time when the hospital would become the enemy and I needed to be prepared.

    Parent

    Jeeze, (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Radiowalla on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 07:49:40 PM EST
    the only thing missing is the part where we all buy our groceries at Whole Foods!

    I read that hogwash (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 07:54:33 PM EST
    article last week while browsing at B&N. I nearly threw it back on the rack. I noticed it took him ten pages of explaining everything that's wrong before he got to his draconian one-page fix. You must know that, to people whose only concern is making a profit, senior citizens are just too much trouble.

    Bought a really great jazz CD instead.  

    I couldn't read through it (none / 0) (#8)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:03:18 PM EST
    but I found it interesting he claims in the first part that it was fueled by his Dad's death and says this:

    Nor from financial limitations--he was a Medicare patient, and the issue of expense was never once raised.

    He might want to turn his attention to "green" hospitals that are popping up and how it could have helped on the infection issue. Might be a tad more productive . . .

    Parent

    I think medicine is like education (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:12:56 PM EST
    in many ways. The differences are instructive.

    Parent
    And passion (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:33:41 PM EST
    I see a lot of similarities with Drs and creatives. Passion and the willingness to explore. It has nothing to do with "the system". It would be nice if we could loosen the ties on medicine from business. Think of where we could really go, seeing as there is an individualism to each patient/case.

    Parent
    Whoops, I meant to respond to your response (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:13:28 PM EST
    to my comment.

    Parent
    My mom also got infections at the hospital (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:26:36 PM EST
    before dying. It was emotionally debilitating to the family because she kept getting strep -- from the hospital -- and we all had to wear masks around her while she was getting over it. I became furious after the second of three infections that the hospitals themselves are the biggest spreaders of strep. But it's a problem that Goldhill's remedy of deregulating everything would not fix at all.

    The promoters of deregulation, tort reform, and "getting rid of waste, fraud and abuse" get on my nerves.

    Parent

    So sorry to hear this :( (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:48:02 PM EST
    I've just recently started tuning in to the greening of hospitals and how it effects the spread of infections. We really need to look at hospital caused infection and also drug resistance. And the role of $$$$.

    My Dad is at a point where he is getting a lot of treatment (elder/Parkinson's/heart attack/and more) and I really worry about him getting infected, as he may not be able to fight it. Mom is pretty good at staying on top of things, but she doesn't stand a chance against changes for the worse to the "system". Although, I do think she would stand well against Goldhill. ;)

    Parent

    I hope the situation will be fixed (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:53:03 PM EST
    before your dad ends up in the hospital. Take heart.. not everyone gets an infection. I can't remember the percentage that do, but even if it's two percent, I think that is too high. We go to the hospital to be healed, not made worse.

    Parent
    I don't know the percentage either (none / 0) (#32)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:15:24 PM EST
    but I know the risk. And that's why I'm paying attention on more than the hospital end.

    Dad had a stay recently from the heart attack, but he also goes in for treatments related to Parkinson and other health issues. There's always a risk just from being around so many possibilities, but the risk from certain things are from drug resistance and the way we currently handle things in hospitals.

    Parent

    How unfair. And so stressful. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:56:14 AM EST
    I hope she is better soon.  As you said, a terrible time for that to happen.

    Parent
    Best wishes, too. I avoid hospital care (none / 0) (#30)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:11:23 PM EST
    if I can, because I was coming home after the most minor surgeries with major complications -- caught strep at the hospital (not the horrible skin-eating one, thank heavens), caught pneumonia at the hospital (leading to three years in a row of it, until I found out about pneumonia shots, thank heavens again), etc.  I also am reading a lot about steps being taken to make hospitals safer for the healthy, at least healthy when we walk in the door.  I'll have to walk in those doors again someday, so I hope that these steps will work.

    Parent
    It's a tad frightening what you can get (none / 0) (#33)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:25:50 PM EST
    at a hospital. I personally don't buy into all that hyper sanitizing life style. I think it's bad for all around, but it's pushed at the consumer through hospital level.

    I think we will see more "pro-active" hospitals down the road. Heh, it's good for business . . . .

    Parent

    They get on mine too (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:46:12 PM EST
    and Sorry, I'm not for Tort Deform.

    Parent
    The amount of money that is spent by lobbyists (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by shoephone on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:55:00 PM EST
    on endlessly promoting tort reform could fund Josh's care for a lifetime, or thirty!

    Parent
    One of the questions that I have trouble with (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:02:09 PM EST
    is just why healthcare is generally so expensive. I think one of the answers has to be that treatment must be individualized. You cannot do surgery in a factory.

    In a sense, Doctors are artisans.

    I don't think this has anything to do with the (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:41:45 PM EST
    expense and it has everything to do with the insurance companies.  It is a game.  The insurance companies pare down what percentages they will pay for certain procedures, they deny pay if paperwork coming from docs is flawed in any tiny small insignificant way, they deny for anything they deem unnecessary (a nurse they pay saying that a doctor didn't need to do something or test for something).....and to outweigh all the financial damage done by this nonpayment from the insurance companies, basic fees charged are increased so that what they do eventually pay for will allow a doctor to stay in business.

    Parent
    They are (none / 0) (#11)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:08:28 PM EST
    especially when you really look at what they do in their different fields/specialties/etc.

    So does that make the insurance companies greedy agents . . ?

    Parent

    artisans generally don't get paid much... (none / 0) (#73)
    by of1000Kings on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:49:45 PM EST
    we are on the taking-out-your-trash pay scale...

    Parent
    $40,000 a yr for garbage collectors in Seattle (none / 0) (#74)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:01:54 PM EST
    One good idea (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:54:08 PM EST
    When I'm old and know I'm dying?  I'll charge up a fortune in medical bills on my credit cards.  Let the banks eat the cost once I'm in default because I'm dead...of course I'll write my banks a special letter saying thanks, and explain that I figure this is my portion of their bailout.

    I'll sell or give away my assets first, of course.

    Yes I'm evil ;-)

    Credit card! (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:05:57 PM EST
    I want to know what credit card he's got! Must carry a hefty credit limit. My card would self destruct when they swiped it before the anesthetic kicked in.

    Parent
    Ha. A friend of mine vows (none / 0) (#31)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:14:59 PM EST
    that her last stop will be at a shopping mall, doing the same thing, so that she can leave this earth in high style.  As for the assets?  She's a shoe freak -- something I've never been able to figure out, but there certainly are many -- and says that all the extra shoes, the extra-expensive shoes, she will buy must be buried with her.

    Parent
    Not evil... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 07:23:02 AM EST
    you're learning how the game is played.

    If ya can't beat 'em, join 'em...all aboard the shady train!!!

    I've made a similar suggestion to anyone very sick and without insurance...beats dying.

    Parent

    Nut graph of his intro (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by gyrfalcon on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:33:45 PM EST
    "I'm a businessman, and in no sense a health-care expert. But the persistence of bad industry practices--from long lines at the doctor's office to ever-rising prices to astonishing numbers of preventable deaths--seems beyond all normal logic, and must have an underlying cause. There needs to be a business reason why an industry, year in and year out, would be able to get away with poor customer service, unaffordable prices, and uneven results--a reason my father and so many others are unnecessarily killed."

    A "business" reason...

    In some ways, I feel sorry for this guy.  In thrashing around in his agony about what happened to his dad, the only thing he can think of is there must be a "business" reason.

    What a laugh! (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 07:47:33 AM EST
    He misses the most obvious answer:

    When you need health care, you need it now and do not have the luxury of shopping around to find out where the best doctors/hospitals/outcomes are.  

    You could, of course, if you were fabulously wealthy and could check into a hospital as easily as you could check into a hotel.

    As for the outcomes?  This is where the public usually gets their knickers into a twist.  The medical professionals do a LOT of research on outcomes and nosocomial infections.  (This is how artificial fingernails were banned for ICU nurses in the hospital I worked in because they were linked to increased rates of nosocomial infections.)  But let a procedure or therapy be denied because the research shows it is unlikely to be effective and people start howling.

    While I don't suggest anyone be their own doctor, I do suggest that they do their own research.  There is plenty of information on the internet if you want to read up on something or double check what your health care providers tell you.  

    Parent

    well (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:00:02 AM EST
    I actually did do some shopping when I was pregnant with my first child. It's pointless. All the doctors I contacted pretty much charged the same fee for Ob/Gyn care. The AMA sets the price range and most doctors go with it.

    Parent
    Hold on now: (none / 0) (#65)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:34:51 AM EST
    You wrote:
    When you need health care, you need it now and do not have the luxury of shopping around to find out where the best doctors/hospitals/outcomes are.

    Then you wrote

    While I don't suggest anyone be their own doctor, I do suggest that they do their own research.  There is plenty of information on the internet if you want to read up on something or double check what your health care providers tell you.  

    So do they do research, ahead of time, with the luxury of shopping around or not just go get health care now when they need it now?  

    You seemed to have wrote a juxtaposition.


    Parent

    No. (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:52:46 AM EST
    Once your doctor(s) tell you something or hand you a med, you get online and double check.  I did that for my dog's osteosarcoma.  We didn't have a firm diagnosis, and by the time we did, I knew exactly what treatments were available and what the outcomes were likely to be.  Plus some time to think everything before we got the official diagnosis and had decisions to make.

    Seeing everything in black and white makes everything easier for me, especially processing information.  Text is static, you can go back as many times as you like.  When someone is talking to you, it is a linear process - if you don't understand something, or don't hear something, you can't go back.  

    Parent

    Same could be said about education (5.00 / 2) (#38)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:15:40 PM EST
    but all we keep having put on us by businessmen on school boards and boards of regents is that teachers ought to just improve their customer service.  We just have to take to heart the mantra that the customer is always right.

    Think that through with the student as customer.  The things that come out of people who never have stood in front of a classroom or written a test or graded one.  Of course, with that philosophy, why grade a test?  The customer is always right!

    Yeah, I love the absurdity (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:29:12 PM EST
    teachers ought to just improve their customer service

    Just teach harder, that'll do it.

    Parent

    Donald you might (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:19:25 PM EST
    be interested in this brief article about Great Britain's NHS.

    Of special interest was an address by Churchill that began:

    The discoveries of healing science must be the inheritance of all. That is clear. Disease must be attacked, whether it occurs in the poorest or the richest man or woman simply on the ground that it is the enemy; and it must be attacked just in the same way as the fire brigade will give its full assistance to the humblest cottage as readily as to the most important mansion.


    More NHS news (none / 0) (#66)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:38:35 AM EST
    Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections

    The NHS currently issues more than 60,000 treatments of steroid injections every year. NICE said in its guidance it wants to cut this to just 3,000 treatments a year, a move which would save the NHS £33 million.

    Parent

    they said treatments should not be given (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Jen M on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:23:35 AM EST
    when the cause is not known.

    Parent
    If it'll (none / 0) (#76)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:08:26 PM EST
    save money, why not?  People should be happy.  So you support the3 NHS in this?

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#77)
    by Jen M on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:17:42 PM EST
    But I really don't support so many American Doctors who specialize in chronic pain being put in jail, their clinics closed, their patients left to fend for themselves and the resulting suicides being written off as not connected.

    It happened to my friend's clinic, she has to drive halfway across the state now for pain meds for the eternal pain resulting from her broken back. It is happening all over the US. It is FAR worse than what they propose in the UK.

    Do you support this?

    Parent

    What the heck (none / 0) (#78)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 06:02:22 PM EST
    are you talking about?  Got a link?  

    Parent
    Search engines, aint they grand (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jen M on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 06:47:37 PM EST
    Correct me if I am wrong (none / 0) (#80)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 04:55:54 AM EST
    but that is the Feds doing it.  And you have no problem if they are everywhere.  Besides, if they don't know the cause of the pain, you indicated you have no problem if they are not treated correct?...  At least if they are in Britian.  

    Parent
    let us sumarize (none / 0) (#82)
    by Jen M on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 04:15:19 PM EST
    You don't know the meaning of the word "nope"

    and you can't use a search engine.

    Parent

    I was supposed to divine (none / 0) (#83)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 06:44:18 PM EST
    you had written about your friends pain clinic before on TL?  Or you were even refering to a postings on TL?  You are about as clear as mud.

    But I really don't support so many American Doctors who specialize in chronic pain being put in jail, their clinics closed, their patients left to fend for themselves and the resulting suicides being written off as not connected.
    It happened to my friend's clinic, she has to drive halfway across the state now for pain meds for the eternal pain resulting from her broken back. It is happening all over the US. It is FAR worse than what they propose in the UK.

    Do you support this?




    Parent
    A few facts about Oregon (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by caseyOR on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:32:58 PM EST
    and Medicare costs. It is true that Medicare costs are lower here (Salem and other places) than Dallas or any of a number of other places. It's not because we have a lack of specialists.

    Some of the reasons our costs are lower include--

    1. The Medicare reimbursement formula is based on very old data compiled when Oregon's population was smaller and mostly rural. The formula for the entire country needs to be updated. It is heavily weighted in favor of states with large urban areas.

    2. Providers here are very efficient. The medical culture in Oregon has encouraged efficient delivery of services. One result of this is lower days-in-hospital rates for patients and fewer re-admits to the hospital caused by a patient being discharged too soon and, thus, getting even sicker and needing an even longer hospital stay.

    Oregon is not the only state on the short end of the reimbursement stick. This is a problem politicians from states with fewer urban centers and more rural areas have been fighting. The big city states don't want to make the change because right now they are making whatever "big money" there is to be made off Medicare. Of course, there are exceptions, like the place in Texas Atul Gawande wrote about in the New Yorker, but remember they are the exceptions.

    This guy has no grasp of the facts.


    45 comments so far and (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:06:20 PM EST
    no one has defended this guy's article. I'm still shaking my head that the person who touted it to me (who's a middle-aged journalist and a non-practicing lawyer) called it "brilliant."

    Well, I'll defend it somewhat (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:17:13 AM EST
    I was initially totally put off both by the graph I quoted above from the intro and by your excerpts of his list of solutions.

    But having read the whole thing now, I think it's a vastly more thoughtful, and certainly more passionate, piece then you give him credit for.

    For just one thing, you left out the part where he says the federal government under his idea would put something like $3,000 a year into every single citizen's "health savings account"-- and still by his calculations end up saving money.

    I think his idea is not nirvana, and he admits as much, and I think he goes very wrong in not even thinking about how medical culture and traditional practices affect the cost and effectiveness of health care.  IOW, he's too heavily centered in "business incentives" as the be-all and end-all of what's wrong with our system and how to fix it.

    But the guy absolutely is not the cold right-wing social darwinist your excerpting makes him seem to be.  Quite the contrary.  He's absolutely enraged, as are all of us here, by the cost of health care in this country and has put a great deal of thought into trying to figure out the systemic reasons why it's so expensive-- overall and for each of us individually-- and what might be done to change that.

    One stunning figure he cites is that a typical 22-year-old professional today, by the time he dies at 80-something, has paid (including his employer's contribution) $1.7 million in insurance premiums, assuming only a 3 percent increase in premium cost per year-- and he and we all know that if nothing is changed, it will be a great deal more than that.

    That's a ridiculous amount of money, and far more than most of us would spend on actual health care during our lifetimes.

    What he's trying to figure out is a way to reduce the $$ the insurance companies suck out of the whole system, hence the emphasis on high-deductible catastrophic coverage backstopped with HSAs.

    I don't want to try to reprise his whole argument here because it's careful and thoughtful and detailed, but I would urge everybody to read the whole thing, and with an open mind.

    As I say, I have big problems with some of it, and I think he's left out some critical issues in terms of health care practices that are culturally ingrained.  But I think his ideas and his analysis are valuable and certainly thought-provoking and shouldn't be waved away as the rantings of some nutjob right-winger.  He's absolutely not that.

    Parent

    He seems to be missing why those (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:37:55 AM EST
    insurance companies operate that way though. They are businesses and businesses exist to create a profit.

    The whole premise that you can fix it with a free market solution just isn't going to work.

    He also seems to be under the impression the typical 22 year old has insurance. I'd bet that category of folk is underinsured and more likely to be in the going naked group.

    Parent

    Insurance companies (none / 0) (#63)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 07:33:06 AM EST
    exist to make a profit, not to deliver care.

    If our actual health care providers - the doctors, nurses, pharmacists, hospitals - did exactly what the insurance companies do, we'd be screaming ourselves hoarse.  They'd fight to treat the most profitable patients and ignore the least profitable or most costly.  We have laws to prevent that.

    There are no laws like that for insurance companies and insurance companies are how many of us pay for our health care.

    We need to change the way we pay for health care and that means changing the way the insurance companies dominate the health industry.  So it needs to be a systemic change, either by hard line regulation of the insurance industry (unlikely) or creating an alternative to the insurance industry.

    This means providing incentive for people to use preventative health care.  The best way to "control costs" isn't to limit access to health care, but to promote the most efficient use of health care dollars: Prevention, Detection, Diagnosis, Treatment.  

    Parent

    Without insurance companies in the mix (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by ruffian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 06:33:14 AM EST
    I believe a lot of our routine medical care would be a lot cheaper.  Providers would not be able to charge as much if everyone was paying out of pocket. So it might not be as horrible as it sounds for all of us to go without insurance except for catastrophic care.

    I happened to get a free copy of this issue in the mail the other day, but have not read it yet.  Interested in seeing if he makes that point, or backs it up in any way, since it it all my own supposition so far.

    Parent

    I do think there's something to that (none / 0) (#70)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:42:44 AM EST
    But probably not as much as needed to actually be able to do away with insurance.

    Parent
    All that comes close to brilliant (none / 0) (#51)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:27:04 PM EST
    is your synopsis -- answer? the credit card! -- of the stupid article.

    Parent
    Thought experiment (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:22:11 PM EST
    Imagine a world where Medicare was originally enacted to give universal coverage to people under 55.

    ouch (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:05:01 PM EST


    Give up on them (none / 0) (#24)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:50:57 PM EST
    It's babble like his that should show Democrat's that there's no way to appease the right. They never wanted Medicare. So what would ever make Dem's think that they could work together to on HCR?

    Personal responsibility is fine. It's great to be self sufficient. I hope I always will be. But I'm also not naive enough or arrogant enough to think that life can't change on a dime. I sure don't want to close any door that I might find I may need somewhere down the road.

    My Question (none / 0) (#37)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:10:33 PM EST
    is why the Atlantic published such drivel.  Are they that desperate for copy?

    Interesting also that it would SEEM, given Jeralyn's statement about her private insurance plan that she's opposed to single-payer, the only sensible solution to the health care mess.

    not true (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:52:58 PM EST
    and please don't make assumptions about what I believe. I'm very capable of speaking for myself.

    I happen to have a high deductible, HSA plan I'm very happy with (except the premiums are too high, they jumped $250 a month this year and when I change age brackets next year they will jump another $400 -- and I'm healthy.)

    I would like everyone to have great coverage. I think the government should provide it to those who can't afford it. And if the government were to take over, I hope they'd provide a choice of plans and I'd pick the best one I could afford.

    When I get to medicare age, I intend to get the best supplemental plan I can afford to go with it.

    I don't want to see the elderly disadvantaged by a discontinuation of Medicare, or by a cutting of benefits for covered treatments or diagnostic aids -- or by cutting doctor rates because that might mean fewer doctors are willing to treat the elderly.

    I do have concerns that the insurance companies will eliminate their top end plans or make them too expensive. But I'm getting resigned to that. Right now, I feel lucky to have a plan that pays 100% of everything -- drugs, doctors, preventive, hospital -- after a reasonable deductible.

    So I support the health care reform bill and I support the public option. I also support Medicare and don't want social security benefits messed with.

    Parent

    She seems to have a fondness (none / 0) (#43)
    by cawaltz on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:33:25 PM EST
    for Medicare too which is a sensible single payer system which has been successful in driving down cost.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#46)
    by cal1942 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:49:53 PM EST
    I was going to add a snide remark about "government ... hands off... Medicare"

    But decided that she was probably talking about cuts in funding.

    It was the inclusion of private insurance that I was going on about.  "government ... hands off ..." that includes private insurance leaves parasites in place and rejects single-payer.

    Parent

    Hopefully (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by cawaltz on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:40:58 PM EST
    she doesn't get real sick before we get some sort of reform that gets rid of lifetime benefit totals or some beancounter can find a reason her Anthem coverage should be rescinded.

    The bankruptcy courts are chock full of people who thought they had good insurance. Of the over 50% of people who file for bankruptcy due to medical reasons. 75% had/ have private insurance. There is something plain wrong with a system that allows someone to faithfully pay premiums and still pulls the rug out from under them when they are sick.

    Parent

    Yup (none / 0) (#75)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:01:51 PM EST
    sure is.

    Parent
    This guy is really naive. (none / 0) (#48)
    by Susie from Philly on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:59:29 PM EST
    I've been unemployed for a year, and I'm trying to figure out how to get $400 for the co-pay on surgery I'm having next month. He obviously lives in a different world.

    And he clearly doesn't understand the culture of doctors. They are not hospital "employees," and hospitals walk a thin line when encouraging revenue producers to adopt better practices.

    He doesn't understand why we still have written orders? Because in the event of a malpractice suit, no one can really read the doctor's writing. It's how they cover their asses.

    The doctors' attitude is a big part of the problem.

    They write badly to cover their asses in (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:47:03 AM EST
    case a malpractice suit?  Yup.  

    Parent
    All my focus is on Josh most of the time (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 06:18:01 AM EST
    and most of the pediatrician and child surgeons I run into tend to have a lot of heart and soul.  I often forget to look at my own doctors though, and I don't feel like I get terrific care from them either.  If I didn't advocate for myself sometimes nobody would.

    Parent
    whew! (none / 0) (#53)
    by cpinva on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:57:15 PM EST
    quite the "businessman" there. if he displays the same lack of knowledge of basic economics (more MRI machines=higher price per use?), one can only imagine how many enterprises he's run into the ground. actually, as i think about it, that seems to be a prerequisite for being the CEO of fortune 500 companies.................

    if possible, this was even worse than the whole foods CEO's proposal, and that was beyond lame.

    Yer right. Give the guy a bonus! (none / 0) (#57)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:27:29 AM EST
    <from TARP funds, of course . . . while he complains about gov't spending>

    Parent
    Not any more (none / 0) (#59)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:40:36 AM EST
    Trusting business (none / 0) (#67)
    by mmc9431 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:45:17 AM EST
    is as stupid as trusting politicians.

    To expect a for profit business to conduct itself as a humanitarian operation is a total mass of contradictions. No wonder everything is in such a mess. A point ignored by conservatives is that history has continually shown that you can't trust business.

    The premise that if you allow the private sector alone to compete, we'll all benefit, is a joke. Look at the various industries that has been deregulated, energy, banking, telecommunications, airlines or trucking. Where in any of them has that proven to be true? In each instance, the public has lost. Quality jobs were eliminated, service was diminished, and rates skyrocketed. (In a lot of those case, competition actually decreased).

     Why would anyone expect a different result with health care? The very nature of business is to make as much money as possible. They have no obligation to have a social or moral conscience.


    On Medicare: you could not be any more wrong. (none / 0) (#72)
    by TexasYellowDog on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:17:02 PM EST
    Eliminating this kind of waste in Medicare and medicine in general is the only way there will be money for universal health insurance.  It isn't about cutting necessary Medicare spending, it's about cutting unnecessary spending.  How many people do you think can afford the kind of health insurance you have?  You wouldn't be incorporated would you, getting a tax deduction for your health insurance expense?  I know your heart is in the right place, but if you can't see the folly in unlimited wasteful spending for seniors and everybody else, then there will be no solution for the poor in this country.