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Friday Night Open Thread

We've filled the page with health care and crime news today. What else is going on?

Newspapers are about to suffer another revenue loss...movie theaters are deciding to cancel their print ads with show times.

I'm getting excited about Huffington Post launching a Denver edition next month. I had dinner last night with the new editor of the Denver edition, 22 year old Ethan Axelrod, and Katharine Zaleski, HuffPo's Senior News Editor (just a few years older than Ethan.) We had a fun night, they've got great ideas and are assembling a well-balanced and interesting group of Coloradans to contribute to the venture. Memo to Ethan's dad: He'll need a car instead of just a bicycle in a few months. We get snow and nights are really cold and I'll bet he'll be working late on many of them. [More...]

Also in Denver: We just got a new state of the art health club downtown in the Tabor Center. Every treadbill, bicycle, spin bike, elliptical trainer and stairmaster has its own HD TV screen with cable tv, but even better, each has a built in i-Pod connection (no cords needed), so you can watch your videos and movies on the big screen. I joined after one visit (it helped that my trainer from my old gym left to become personal training manager at this one) and went four times this week. My only concern is I will run out of music videos and tv shows to watch.

And I'm still not boycotting Whole Foods. Remember those peaches President Obama got last week when Michelle and their daughters went to the orchard in Palisade, near Grand Junction? I just got a bunch at Whole Foods from the very same orchard.

Update: One more thing for commenters here. We had a huge swarm of spammer registrations last night and today -- more than 100 (make that 300 in the past 24 hours) -- each of which I had to delete manually. So we've disabled the lines in your user profiles for your bio and websites until we get it under control and figure out a better solution. Hopefully just a few days. These spammers register but rarely comment. They just fill the bio section with links to their products. Almost all are from the UK, Phillipines, India and Australia.

Ok, your turn, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    I'm from the old school (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:28:58 PM EST
    wherein 22 year old kids who need cars buy their own.

    Just call me old-fashioned.

    Given what 22 year olds make (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:33:25 PM EST
    what could they afford? Especially if they graduate college with a pile of student debt. I'd rather have the piece of mind that my kid wasn't driving a junker, especially on snow and ice. If we were talking about clothes,I'd agree. I'm hoping mine will be fully self-sufficient at 30. Wishful thinking, though.

    Parent
    I know (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:42:55 PM EST
    I worked 2 jobs when I was 22.  It was good for me.  It would be good for Ethan too.

    Parent
    I always had two jobs too (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:57:34 PM EST
    even during high school and up until law school, but they were part-time. I did pay for my own car, a 1967 mustang convertible, but I didn't have the debt these kids come out of school with. The TL kid is already working more than 60 hours a week in a high-pressure job, no way could he work a second one. I suspect Ethan will be putting in the same kind of hours. Here's a middle ground: Maybe his dad could just loan him the money for a car.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 5) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:27:49 PM EST
    I don't have a feel for what an Axelrod kid might make working the Huffington Post.

    I guess what it boils down to is the difference in behavior of people from different economic backgrounds. My experience is I paid for a car or I didn't have a car.  I took a bus.  I expect nothing less from anyone else.

    But truly the bottom line is that it's none of my business! ;-).

    Parent

    Man., same here (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:49:55 AM EST
    Also, I think there was a different ethos or something when I was growing up.  I would frankly have been ashamed to even ask my parents to buy me a car, and if they'd offered, I'd have said no with some indignation.

    Parent
    Different world, different resources, (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:21:05 AM EST
    different expectations.

    Parent
    No kidding (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by gyrfalcon on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:25:19 AM EST
    but also very different culture of expectations.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#49)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:02:54 AM EST
    Check your lottery tickets (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Wile ECoyote on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:32:29 AM EST
    we finally agree on something.

    Parent
    Chevy Malibu (none / 0) (#58)
    by dead dancer on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:45:55 AM EST
    No expensive car for me, by far. Had the family hand me down; shared amongst the siblings; don't leave it empty or else; car.

    Maybe the Nano will come to the USA!

    Parent

    I dont think (none / 0) (#68)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 11:03:05 AM EST
    you realize the amount of debt students from my generation accumulate just to graduate- I konw people (myself included) who had grants and worked through school (a state college- in-state tutition) who will leave University with around 20 grand in debt- we're on the low end.

    Parent
    something 1300 bucks (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by coigue on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:47:20 PM EST
    good enough, actually.

    Parent
    Might buy four tires I'd trust (none / 0) (#8)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:49:28 PM EST
    to put under my kid.  Keep in mind that where we are, we're talking serious tires on serious vehicles to get through ice storms, snowstorms, and blizzards.  Sometimes all in one week.

    Parent
    I beg your pardon (none / 0) (#10)
    by coigue on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:52:10 PM EST
    as I am an ignorant Californian...where cars essentially last forever, and the weather is easy.

    Parent
    I bet you have room in your trunk (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:33:21 PM EST
    for beach toys or something, even sand shovels, instead of having your trunk filled with a few snow shovels plus huge bags of ice melt; more huge bags of sand to put under the tires to give them traction on the ice, even if the ice melt starts to melt it -- and then you better go get more huge bags of something heavy to put in the trunk to prevent ice skids; big stomper snow boots, preferably with spikes in the soles, so as to not slide under the car while shoveling it out; and wool blankets and extra hats and gloves and mittens in case the car is just inescapably stuck and you have to stay in the car for maybe 20 minutes before the cops come or you freeze to death, whichever. . . .

    And yeh, cars don't last long when all the ice melt and salt and stuff splashes up on the undercarriage for months, freezes there, thaws, freezes again, thaws, rusts . . . do not buy a car that has been through a real winter without getting a good look at its underside.  Ugh.

    Parent

    Yup....and picnic blankets (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by coigue on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:56:20 PM EST
    my hubby, though, is from North Dakota. They keep lots of the same stuff, including a coffee can...in case you really get stranded.

    Parent
    Oh, yes. Some use it to (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:06:10 PM EST
    make water one way, as it were, and some to make water the other way -- if you have to melt snow in the coffee can to have water to drink.  That's if you don't freeze to death within 20 minutes. :-)

    Parent
    Sometimes I wonder (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by coigue on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:42:10 AM EST
    if he married me to move here..lol!

    Parent
    Btw, another warm-weather (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:42:09 AM EST
    newcomer in our midst, a new family member, opined tonight when the temp went below 60 degrees to -- brrrr - 59 degrees that it must be winter now.  That's what winter means to her. . . .

    The giggling that greeted that comment!  But it was just mean of some in the group to so solicitously help her go find a wool hat and mittens for tomorrow night, when it may get to 55, so she fears it will snow.

    Parent

    Someone (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 02:04:58 AM EST
    should explain to her as nicely as possible that it needs to be at least 32 degrees or below before she needs to worry about snow. 55 is fall weather.

    Parent
    And no public transit (none / 0) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:29:16 PM EST
    available?

    Parent
    Denver might be decent (none / 0) (#69)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 11:04:50 AM EST
    but public transit outside of major Urban centers is just horrendous in this country- its sad and a direct by-product of lobbyist influence.

    Parent
    things are different these days (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by TeresaInPa on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:16:12 AM EST
    I worked one job and raised the kids at that age.  My ex worked three and the car we finally got from his uncle was an old junker and we were glad to have it.
    Sigh, my children both had new cars in the last few years and they are in their late twenties, not their early twenties.  They are spoiled.

    Parent
    In my family (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:03:30 PM EST
    Parents bought a new car and kids/grandkids got the old if it was safe. (I never got my drivers license, so my parents have offered to buy me a car* when I move west, lol!~ ) All expenses that went with hand-me-down car were required by recipient, including insurance. It was their way of helping without making it too easy.

    *apparently over the years they have bought a car for my niece and sister has received all the others, so they feel I'm "due". Me, I'll prob buy used and convert to green ;)

    Parent

    People used to trade in cars (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:25:37 PM EST
    and buy new ones every couple of years, quite commonly.  Or just buy the newest model and hand down the cars to the kids when those cars were only a few years old.  I recall how rarely we really saw clunkers or how rarely anyone drove their cars to the end.

    I saw an analysis not long ago of how much that has changed.  Most car owners now tend to hang onto cars far longer -- too long to make them very safe for the kids, it seems -- and the basis for that analysis was before the economy crashed.  

    Parent

    I know those people. (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 07:58:26 AM EST
    Then they went to leasing for a year or two and save the hassle of actually buying/selling.

    No one in my family ever did that.  With the exception of my father, we usually buy a basic transportation vehicle, often used and drive it until we need to buy a new one.

    I think that puts us squarely in the "need" as opposed to "want" part of the car buying public.  

    Parent

    Cars are interesting things (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:33:19 AM EST
    Some people actually identify with the car they drive and have to stay "current". I buy quality,  maintain my cars, don't put a lot of miles on them, and now that I'm done handing down to kids, I'll see how long I keep the one I'm driving now. The hand-me-downs were about 8 years old, with less than 60,000 miles. I've had my today car for 4 years, it has 27,000.

    Those no car payment years are heavenly.

    Parent

    What's a car payment? (none / 0) (#59)
    by kdog on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:56:47 AM EST
    I never had one of those, only state-mandated insurance payments:)

    My parents gave me my first one at 19 when I moved out...I'm on my second since then, both paid for in cash, not much to look at but they get from point A to point B.

    Thats my beef with cash for clunkers... destroying perfectly good clunkers artificially inflating the price of used cars.  If we didn't hand out this subsidy and destroy functioning cars, auto dealers would be practically giving them away to stay afloat, new and used, most everybody could afford a car.

    I remember when I was little and my parents were struggling, my dad bought a family car for 50 bucks...a 1968 puke green station wagon, forget the make.  Held together by duct tape and wire coat hangers.  We called it the Herman Munster car...my sister would duck under the dash if she saw her friends driving buy, it was truly hideous.  But we got a good year out of that thing before it died...I look back fondly on the Herman Munster car now. Today whoever my old man brought it from would a cash for clunkered it...and he woulda been on the bus and moms woulda been walking to the market and laundromat with the old pushcart.

    Parent

    I learned to drive a stick... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:49:10 PM EST
    ...in an aqua blue AMC Pacer, three speed.  Talk about a hideous clunker.  You didn't so much find the gears in that car as make new ones each time you shifted.  Grind me up a pound, was our favorite refrain with that beast.

    Parent
    I miss driving stick! (none / 0) (#67)
    by Cream City on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 03:33:39 AM EST
    I learned to drive stick late, stuck with a desperation car, but lordy did I learn to love it!  I walk to work and almost everywhere now, having reconfigured my life to be urban Amish.:-)  But when I rarely drive, I'm drawn to the old clunker that requires both hands, at least one foot, and full concentration.  I'm amazed now that it seemed so difficult to learn manual drive; it fully engages in ways that just make an automatic transmission so unsatisfying.:-)

    Parent
    That was my deal, too (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:22:43 PM EST
    I bought myself a new car and handed on the existing car to my kids. Both of them got a hand-me-down vehicle, and what made it perfect for them (and me) was that we knew every day of the history and maintenance of the cars they were starting out with.  

    Parent
    Eating out with outgoing food critic (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:29:43 PM EST
    The West Point guy apologized to (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:36:15 PM EST
    daughter today.  They went to dinner and are going to watch Benjamin Button.  Two other guys that she went to high school with here confessed in the past few days that they have "feelings" for her.  She is due November 3rd.  She is officially smuggling basketballs and whatever attraction essence she's shooting out into the universe, I wish she'd share.  The wheel on my city leased garbage can has a broken wheel and nobody will even return my call.

    You will be toast if she (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:50:49 PM EST
    Reads this!

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:54:33 PM EST
    Look at everyone on the Bachelorette (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:58:21 PM EST
    and the Bachelor.  I can gin her up into a sort of Alabama redneck version of the fleeing Bachelorette :)  West Point just will not go away though....troublesome lad!

    Parent
    At least he has heath care and (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:04:58 PM EST
    full emplyment.

    Parent
    Thanks oculus (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:06:46 PM EST
    You sound just like her dad talking to me about it.

    Parent
    I call him Kyle Longshot (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:09:07 PM EST
    and then she went and told him that was what I call him :)

    Parent
    Nothing like a foul mother-in-law (none / 0) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:12:22 PM EST
    to speed up the premarital bonding

    Parent
    Oh God oculus (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:28:24 PM EST
    I made fun of military psychologists on this blog and then Joshua's best friend ended up having one for a dad, and he befriended my husband and now they are going to write some paper together.  I can't stand McChrystal....husband going to work for him under Obama now in like a month.  All my grandchildren from here on out named Longshot.

    Parent
    God is reading your comments! (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:52:00 AM EST
    P.S.  Friday night, at a chamber music festival, I heard compositions by Copeland, the drummer in The Police.  Gawd-aweful.  Tell Joshua to concentrate on computer.

    Parent
    The wrong Copeland (none / 0) (#55)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:08:22 AM EST
    but definitely. :-)

    Parent
    Were you in Santa Cruz when Aaron Copland (none / 0) (#61)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:18:37 PM EST
    was the guest conductor at the Cabrillo Music Festival? Summer 1978. I got to go to the honorary dinner and meet him. Of course, I felt like an idiot in his presence, but he was such a gracious man to my 18-year old foolish self. That was back in the days when Dennis Russell Davies was conducting the festival.

    Parent
    I don't recall ever seeing A. Copeland in (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:33:09 PM EST
    person, although he may have appeared at the May Festival in Ann Arbor while I was there.  Phil. Orch., Ormandy, what's not to like.  But the festival is no more.  Not sure why.

    Parent
    I don't recall ever seeing A. Copeland in (none / 0) (#65)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:33:09 PM EST
    person, although he may have appeared at the May Festival in Ann Arbor while I was there.  Phil. Orch., Ormandy, what's not to like.  But the festival is no more.  Not sure why.

    Parent
    In the Dollar tree book bin (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by The Last Whimzy on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:02:10 PM EST
    Today I found books by a guy named Matt bai and a guy named Markos moulitsas.

    At least (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:19:26 PM EST
    they're not in the shredder bin.  That happens to so many books, to so many authors I know not given warning by their publishers.  The remainder table is, instead, a chance to grab a stack of your own books much cheaper than at the publisher's so-called author's discount rate.  (It's such a lousy rate that with free shipping, Amazon often can beat the author's discount rate even when a book is brand-new.  The publishing world is just so weird.)

    Parent
    Hmmm, I bet he got an advance (none / 0) (#29)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:36:22 PM EST
    being a big name.  Wonder if he can pay it back, what with all the lawyers' bills that may be ahead.

    Parent
    Oh, there is justice (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 10:08:24 PM EST
    in the justice system, at least in that state, after all.  I'm proud to be in the first community-property state, sure, but still . . . I gotta like the idea of him asking for permission, real purty-like.

    Parent
    Favre's first night in purple (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 11:40:07 PM EST
    The old guy went 1 for 4 on the field.  But the Vikes won, anyway.

    Back in Packerland, t-shirts abound.  Coming soon, it is said, will be a t-shirt featuring a cartoon that has swept the state.  Fittingly, it comes from the Green Bay Press-Gazette's cartoonist.  

    It shows, in his purple gear, an aged Favre.  Caption: "Cash-for-Clunkers Program."

    That is funny (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by caseyOR on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:14:51 AM EST
    I didn't think anything would top yesterday's "The Ego Has Landed." that you posted about, but this surely does. You Wisconsonites area funny crowd.

    Parent
    Traveling today (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 06:19:02 AM EST
    Updating the Tom Tom right now.  I hope when I get back that you guys have us on single payer.

    Cyclists (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:33:01 AM EST
    are a bit hardier than you give them credit for!

    Anyone who sharing the road with nothing more than two (or three wheels) and a helmet already has a certain amount of physical and mental fortitude.

    As a former cycle commuter, I will say that the worst hazard any cyclist will encounter are cars, trucks and the people who are driving them.  The weather can be a problem, but most people who ride to work have a back up plan or two.  Public transit, a zip car, a taxi or even a friend with a car are other options.  Plus this is a position with ample telecommuting potential - the best kind of commuting!

    One frigid night my car wouldn't start.  I made a quick call to tell the hospital I'd be late, dragged my bike and helmet out and rode to work.  One of my coworkers laughed "Why didn't you just call in?".  

    Time Out (none / 0) (#4)
    by CDN Ctzn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:36:07 PM EST
    Jerallyn please ask your (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 08:53:34 PM EST
    Connections to request Huff Post not post stories and photos on the FP of people who have sex w/animals or models who are mutilated and murdered.

    but didn't they post a picture of the model (none / 0) (#15)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Aug 21, 2009 at 09:00:56 PM EST
    happy and smiling and alive? I didn't see one of her mutilated. (And I think you'll need someone with far greater connections than I have to fill that request.)

    Parent
    Thanks for that! (none / 0) (#46)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:01:34 AM EST
    Now that image is firmly planted in my brain:
    HuffPo = mutilated models and bestiality!

    Parent
    Another one of my open minded (none / 0) (#47)
    by joze46 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:07:53 AM EST
    Thoughts about what is happening. Please understand that my background has nothing to with legal stuff, my goal in reading this blog is to understand more about people in the law culture and what direction we are going in. Try to give fresh eyes to make a better system.

    Guess like a lot of Americans, and for me reading just basic legislation is a struggle, but it shouldn't be. With today's technology it definitely should be as smooth and easy as moving through a web sight with a ton of hyper links. Sort like Wikipedia or others. Converting this government legislative system alone would be enough to generate jobs.

    That is said because Legislation, like the Health Care stuff,  has the huge, huge references made to other business laws, relations between state and national laws, IRS codes, or examples in relations needed to define Insurance legislation, or simply to see the "limits" whether something is or has timed out to be a crime or not. It is not hard to read it is just filled with a lot of details in cross references.

    Which leads me to another issue when I heard about Cheney outing some of the secret stuff he knows about because the Statue of Limitations is over I flipped out. So basically Cheney is telling us all he broke the law covering by keeping secrets, making them national security secrets, and that's O.K. then we wonder why our young have morals that are in the toilet.

    Here too, the media is wildly at an advantage with daily Judge Shows and anchor television personalities that are trained lawyers, or those who are not passed the bar but certainly with skill and more than expert experience, perhaps even more talented in the art of persuasion to a political end of power and money. All radiating gleaming beaming pounding stirring twenty four seven directing public opinion. Creating hatred, hypocrisy, division, bias, and a false public opinion. Journalism in the electromagnetic spectrum has turned into or is transformed into free speech tyranny.      

    Reading through Legislation is cumbersome yet with today's technology it should be smooth easy and defined at every corner. Until that happens, our corporate tyranny system, and partisan economic secret Federal Reserve system, will be running America wildly funneling money into secret Swiss bank accounts or foreign front companies.

    My argument as lawyers might call it, perhaps I am wrong, is about the basic "Insurance Exchange Commission" being proposed by Obama and the Democrats. How good is this thing? Reading the basic definitions is looks pretty good. But enforcing it like anything else takes us the people.  

    Whats funny is the stand fast long time "Securities and Exchange Commission" now, should be engulfed with indictments convictions and connections revealing to a lot of political long time families that are as guilty as hell screwing America out of tax dollars. But so far Obama will not move forward to take the challenge to ferrite out condemn openly point out top officials to ridding the system of this on going pardon happy system with inadequate oversight or impeachment of judicial officials that work for friendships rather than serve the constitution and we the people.

    O.K. so we need Health Care reform. Obama has to understand looking back is needed just like rear view mirrors are made for safety in cars or transportation to move forward. Similarly looking back in history is painful but it is our one safety feature left to be able to make things better to move forward. Please President Obama, you can not ignore every time America gets politically side swiped back ended. Even a good Nascar driver can tell you when you might get cut off. Or tally the methods that lead to an understanding that points to a hit and run, like Bush and company with the initial Federal Reserve money was nothing more than "Cut and Run".

    Bush needs to be held accountable...Heck the War is bad enough but this stock market stuff is way too, too, wide open in your face derivative wrapped in no definitions wildly unregulated specifically open with all the deceptions double crossing big bandit banking secret money changing foreign influenced world wide corruption parlayed into hundreds of trillions of secret dollar deals is real criminal intent that appears to be the ultimate of subversion.  

    9 trillion dollar deficit (none / 0) (#48)
    by Slado on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:34:50 AM EST
    That's what Obama dropped on us as he headed off to a much needed vacation from August.

    2 Trillion dollars.   That 400B more then his public plan would cost.

    So 2 trillion just vanished nd now we should pass a huge entitlement program that will cost us another 1.6trillion?

    Who's going to pay for it?

    The same people (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Steve M on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:17:42 AM EST
    who are paying for the Bush tax cuts and our war of choice in Iraq.

    Parent
    I thought obama was going to get (none / 0) (#66)
    by Slado on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 07:46:52 PM EST
    us out of Iraq?

    Now he's upping the ante in Afghanistan?

    Bring the troops home if you want to pass healthcare, cap and tax and a stimulus.

    Don't do anything you promise and spend more money.   That I have a problem with.

    Parent

    I'm starting to think... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:04:20 PM EST
    it can't be real money...it's make believe, like war games or something.

    If it was real money we'd be cut-off by now right?...the troops would be home, the bases would be closed, the drug war would be surrendered, and we'd all be paying higher taxes already to pay this sh*t down.  

    It just can't be real, how else do you explain such unfathomable debts?  If the feds keep it up, the confidence that makes a dollar a dollar will vanish, and I don't know what that means for us.

    Parent

    Since you're so worried about it (none / 0) (#62)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:30:11 PM EST
    I think we ought to designate you as the payer, just so you have piece of mind.

    Parent
    Don't See This Headline Every Day (none / 0) (#56)
    by daring grace on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:08:23 AM EST
    100 Professors in Bribery Probe

    in Germany.