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Saturday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:04:20 AM EST
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The President's weekly address. He discusses the "myths" of health care reform. The public option is discussed in supportive fashion. Buuut, not in a particularly committed way. Jeff Feldman has a good take.

This is an Open Thread.

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    Saturday Morning Open Thread | 76 comments (76 topical)

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    My saturday morning so far: (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:38:42 AM EST
    One package of grapes dropped on the kitchen floor, half of which rolled away.

    Were they sour? (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:00:35 AM EST
    ;)

    Parent
    I had a great response to this (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:04:30 AM EST
    but decided against post it.

    Parent
    Aw ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Robot Porter on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:34:37 AM EST
    that's too bad.

    Parent
    I got grapes with my fruit share today (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:08:57 AM EST
    I will try and not follow your example  ;)

    Parent
    You don't get (none / 0) (#44)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 02:56:26 PM EST
    your grapes in bunches?

    Not a criticism just wondering.

    I can't picture a bunch of grapes rolling away.

    Parent

    A few broke off (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:19:31 PM EST
    but the way grapes roll around, it felt like half of the bag was on the floor.

    Parent
    It's like... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by desertswine on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 04:59:47 PM EST
    The Swine's Law of Expanding Liquids...

    When a quart of any liquid hits the floor, it immediately expands into a gallon. The same is true of all other measures, that is, expanding into the next higher size by volume.

    Parent

    And it's why I own a dog! (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:08:29 PM EST
    "Clean Up!" is one of her fav commands  ;)

    Parent
    That's funny (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:35:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Guantanamo prisoner release (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by MyLeftMind on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:49:09 AM EST
    A Yemeni prisoner held since 2002 at Guantanamo Bay must be freed because there is no evidence he belonged to al Qaeda or was a bodyguard for Osama bin Laden, a U.S. judge said.  

    Mohammed Adahi is one of 29 detainees who have been ordered released from Guantanamo, a controversial prison on a U.S. Navy base in Cuba that has housed suspected militants since the September 11 attacks on the United States by al Qaeda in 2001.
    ...
    "There is no reliable evidence in the record that (Adahi) was a member of al Qaeda and/or the Taliban," U.S. District Judge Gladys Kessler wrote in her decision.


    Reuters: Judge orders release of Guantanamo prisoner

    Not to be pushy but that is not what the judge (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:38:24 PM EST
    said.

    There is no reliable evidence

    That, of course is called an opinion by the judge. She may or may not be right. Trials are often considered helpful in matters like these.

    Parent

    Ah yes (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:46:55 PM EST
    We all knew, even the Left in general if they would be honest,that providing a full up US type trial would be difficult because of the almost impossible task re "chain of evidence."

    I see that this judge has not disappointed.

    Parent

    Your welcome (none / 0) (#80)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 02:59:17 PM EST
    a trite, stereotyped expression; a sentence or phrase, usually expressing a popular or common thought or idea, that has lost originality, ingenuity, and impact by long overuse, as sadder but wiser, or strong as an ox.

    Cliche??? Perhaps. But true.

    Parent

    Great retrospective talking slideshow (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:03:28 AM EST
    on the South Bronx.

    That was cool... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:39:16 AM EST
    some great photographs...I f*ckin' love New York.

    Was kinda hoping to see some photos of DJ Kool Herc...what a scene he started up in the Boogie Down round that time.

    The words of Nelson George describing the scene...

    The sun hadn't gone down yet, and kids were just hanging out, waiting for something to happen. Van pulls up, a bunch of guys come out with a table, crates of records. They unscrew the base of the light pole, take their equipment, attach it to that, get the electricity - Boom! We got a concert right here in the schoolyard and it's this guy Kool Herc. And he's just standing with the turntable, and the guys were studying his hands. There are people dancing, but there's as many people standing, just watching what he's doing. That was my first introduction to in-the-street, hip hop DJing.

    What is it about poverty that births so much beauty?

    Parent

    Beautiful Images from an Impossible Place (none / 0) (#14)
    by daring grace on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:03:17 PM EST
    Thanks for that.

    And the narration was also really something.

    Parent

    Non-committed (5.00 / 7) (#7)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:29:24 AM EST
    Regarding this BTD statement:

    If [Obama] can't [enact the public option], that means he really is not in favor of it or he is too incompetent politically to get it done

    I think today's address answers the question.  If he were simply incompetent politically to enact the public option, he's still quite a competent orator and could at least speak committedly about it.

    But he didn't speak committedly.

    Therefore if the question is a dichotomy, I choose answer A.  Obama is not in favor of the public option.

    The fact that Helen Halpin (5.00 / 5) (#15)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:04:42 PM EST
    is no longer working for him as she did during his campaign and is back in academia world speaks volumes as well.

    She is one of the original people who came up with a plan to create a government plan to compete against the private entities.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32508223/ns/politics-health_care_reform/

    Parent

    check out glenn greenwald's column (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by cpinva on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:24:35 PM EST
    from the beginning of the week, he has an interesting take on this.

    short version: the obama administration has no real interest in a public option, and is perfectly happy giving the private insurance companies, big pharma and the AMA the keys to the treasury, and continued picking of the public's pockets.

    Parent

    He lost me in the first two minutes (5.00 / 8) (#20)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:43:37 PM EST
    Anytime anyone in D.C. says they are committed to health insurance reform, I say "bye bye". He's placating people who already have insurance, telling them nothign will change, we can have everything we want and need, and a pony too. But then he dismisses the public option "as only one of many ways to get there", without offering any other way to get there.

    FAIL.

    The whole address was more campaign rhetoric, not even full of sound and fury and yet, still signifying nothing. He just puts me to sleep.

    I miss having a president who could talk about arcane matters in normal language, make me care and make me believe him. Warning, I'm gonna say it... I'm starting to miss Bill Clinton.

    Parent

    I don't "miss" Bill Clinton. (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:13:44 PM EST
    I still appreciate him.

    I just wonder why Obama seems to draw so many of his political lessons from GWB and Ronald Reagan and so few from either of the Clintons.  (Or perhaps the wrong ones.)

    The Clinton health care debacle showed that best way to do it badly was to let the insurance companies have a strong influence and fail to have a strong vision/plan in place - especially with a hostile Congress.  

    Parent

    Well, for all his vaunted (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by brodie on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:52:22 PM EST
    persuasive skills, and the policy talents of his wife, neither was able to get HCR done.  Plenty of mistakes made, and top Dems in Congress weren't always helpful.

    The two key cong'l chairmen, Rostenkowski (W&M) and Moynihan (Finance) seemed to be giving conflicting signals.  Rosty told Bill to create his own bill then bring it over.  Moynihan seemed miffed at the Clintons for not consulting him more closely on their bill (mighta been some truth to that).  

    Then Bill and Hill seemed to take too long in their bill making, while they (and the weak, meek DNC) also vastly underestimated the well-funded opposition.  Etc etc.

    Obama seems to have overlearned certain aspects of the Clinton story (the letting Congress do it part), while underlearning other elements (having a tight timetable for completion, being ready on Day One to counter the oppo, however it would manifest).

    It's not over of course.  Too early to panic.  But I don't like the tattered looks of that public option ...

    Parent

    I don't miss BC over health care, specifically (none / 0) (#67)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:39:49 PM EST
    Believe me, for most of his tenure as president I was mad at him! I just miss how well he could present policy as a public speaker. For all of the hoopla at the time over what an egotist he was, he always seemed to talk about policies in a way that made it about Americans, not himself.

    Parent
    So people are finally starting to notice. (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by prittfumes on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 04:33:22 PM EST
    Everything is all about him all the time.

    Parent
    I'm with you actually (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:59:24 PM EST
    although some of us are definitely not getting punked.  We had plenty of signs of Obama's corporate leanings prior to the election, FISA being the quickest one that comes to mind.

    Parent
    He can turn on a dime! (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:07:21 PM EST
    From a promised filibuster to meekly voting for it?

    What conclusions could any objective observer draw?  

    Parent

    And (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:17:12 PM EST
    from promising to "fight" to strip telecom immunity to "meekly" voting for the bill?

    Parent
    I am with you. (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by AX10 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:36:50 PM EST
    We knew what Obama was all about.

    Until he shows otherwise, Obama is giving the clear appearance that he was playing interference for the
    collective corporate interests.

    Without a true public option (which would lead to medicare for all like in France) there is no healthcare reform!

    Parent

    Of course he's (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by mogal on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:08:09 PM EST
     "playing interference for the
    collective corporate interests" they elected him as they did G W Bush.


    Parent
    her aproval ratings (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by TeresaInPa on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 09:33:49 AM EST
    are higher than Obama's at the moment.

    Parent
    I am becoming a conspiracy theorist. (5.00 / 5) (#48)
    by hairspray on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:35:08 PM EST
    Somehow the Obama for presidency two years into his senate was a tip off.  The corporatists (in spite of tagging HRC as one) were only too willing to get Obama on board. I guess they knew he would be their man. I think they were afraid HRC was a more liberal and unpredictable candidate.  Then when Kennedy, Baucus and Dashle shoved HRC aside on health care I felt they really didn't want to see her in leadership against our corporate structure.  Sec of State will use her skills, but the real game was always in D.C.

    Parent
    My take was a bit simpler (5.00 / 5) (#56)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 05:58:03 PM EST
    Obama was a better bet because he didn't know the players (and thus could be played easily) and because he was going to be beholden to a lot of people by the time he won the Democratic nomination.

    Clinton has been around a very, very long time.  She was going to be more difficult to persuade to bend, especially on issues that were important to her.  Being less egocentric and more interested in accomplishments for their own sake, she'd be harder to sway.

    Parent

    Bingo! (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by suzieg on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 02:07:20 AM EST


    Parent
    Graph of past and projected health care costs (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by magster on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:39:50 AM EST
    as a percentage of family income if there is no public option

    That graph is not of (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:44:02 AM EST
    not healthcare costs, it is PREMIUMS only.  It does not include deductibles, copays, coinsurance, etc.

    Parent
    Thanks for clarifying (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by magster on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:47:11 AM EST


    Parent
    You're welcome ;-) (none / 0) (#13)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 11:52:01 AM EST
    and thanks for not pointing out my bogus comment editing.

    Parent
    Another interesting graph (none / 0) (#30)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:25:44 PM EST
    Premiums for family coverage by state:

    Link

    Note that Romneycare is the most expensive.  I don't know why Minnesota is so high.  

    My little WA is way up there too, where we have some regulation on what is covered, but nothing to put pressure on premiums.  The insurance companies throw a tantrum every year, and get huge premium hikes.  

    Parent

    You're right up there with us in WI (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 02:35:05 PM EST
    and in next-door MN, probably for the same reason that studies here have found: lack of competitive health care services.  Btw, those other studies have found costs vary within states, and my city -- and thus yours -- face far higher insurance costs, because cities can congregate high-need people . . . or because, of course, those of us with state legislatures still dominated by rural areas just keep getting this and more stuck to us.

    Parent
    I wonder a little (none / 0) (#45)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:10:13 PM EST
    if our high insurance rates have anything to do with Microsoft and Boeing being located here, two companies that offer ridiculously good insurance benefits.

    Parent
    That's a good graph (none / 0) (#36)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:55:43 PM EST
    for pointing out how difficult it is for low income families to afford those premiums. $12,000 a year?  Not including any other medical expenses?

    No wonder so many people do without!

    Parent

    My (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 04:26:11 PM EST
    heavens the ENTIRE southeast is being killed by insurance premiums. I've got it slightly easier her in Ga but they are horrible here.

    Parent
    BTD quoted and linked in (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by oldpro on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:27:26 PM EST
    Greenwald's update re the most basic lesson in politics: trust is an inappropriate response to politicians...never mind what they say, watch what they do.  Yep.

    Scathing warnings from Greenwald re Obama's loss of support from DEMS in updates I and II.

    If Obama can't give up the post-partisan unity schtick, we are doomed...and so is any change you want to believe in so long as the White House cares more about campaigning than governing.

    "Bipartisanship" (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    is just an excuse to jettison anything that doesn't benefit his big donors.

    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#43)
    by cal1942 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 02:38:24 PM EST
    anything else that goes against his basically conservative outlook.

    Parent
    In 2010, Voinovich retires. (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:19:55 PM EST
    His Senate seat will be up for grabs.  With Ohio a swing state, it will be most instructive to see how that race shapes up.  The previous two term Republican incumbent was booted by Sherrod Brown 56/44 in 2006.  That race was influenced anti-Bush sentiment.

    Most of the 2010 races will be interesting to watch, but I expect this to be a bellwether race in terms of the (D) versus (R) and also in terms of Obama's "coattails".

    Parent

    Cross your fingers for (5.00 / 6) (#29)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:21:34 PM EST
    "we saved the economy and jobs are coming back" or it's going to be really ugly.

    Parent
    Currently Governor Strickland's (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Fabian on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:26:59 PM EST
    numbers are dropping and he's taking heat for doing things like cutting social services and increasing gambling.  

    If there was a mandate for Obama-style change in 2008, I doubt that particular mantra will still be effective in 2010.  The Democrats are going to need something else and they need to figure out what it is quickly.

    Parent

    Strickland, like everyone else, (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:30:24 PM EST
    has to play Herbert Hoover. State governments can't run deficits or print money.

    This is one of the main reasons why the stimulus should have been much bigger. Probably, it should have covered everyone's budget gaps (and then some) for 3-5 years.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by cawaltz on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:35:20 PM EST
    less emphasis on tax cuts and more emphasis on saving infrastructure and programs already in place. It's hard to sell yourself as the party with a heart when you are forced to cut SCHIP and Medicaid at a time when people need those programs most.

    Parent
    Once (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:55:51 PM EST
    again the party screws up by not listening to Krugman. When will they ever learn?

    Parent
    Prime Minister Susan Collins (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:59:53 PM EST
    got what she wanted.

    Parent
    I just learned from a very serious person (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by The Last Whimzy on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 02:10:38 PM EST
    That we can have a recovery without jobs.  If you can have health care reform without helping the people who don't have health care I suppose it all stands to reason...

    Parent
    The "confusion" on the public option (5.00 / 6) (#38)
    by pluege on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 01:57:13 PM EST
    is all Obama's. His unfailing commitment to insurance companies keeps his commitment to the public option tepid at best, and subversive at worst. The public option can only happen in spite of Obama.

    Do you think the Dems (none / 0) (#58)
    by robert72 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 07:15:16 PM EST
    want reform at all? Any leaders with common sense would know that they need a SIMPLE understandable plan and then fight for it, in order to have the country behind them. As it is - nobody knows what the Democrats are doing, what they have in mind - and there does not seem to be a plan. A recipe for disaster.
    Over 1000 pages in a bill is just nonsense. It means there are loopholes a mile wide. It means that nobody understands what is in it - good or bad.
    Obama has no passion for health care improvement. After all, it isn't going to affect HIM, or so he thinks. Maybe the next election will prove him wrong.


    Parent
    Inertia at work (none / 0) (#60)
    by NYShooter on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 08:05:03 PM EST
    When you have a political system which can best be described as "Dialing for Dollars," what can you expect? Every Senator and Congress-person complains that 3/4th of their time is spent selling themselves for money. They simply don't have the time to throw themselves into an issue. That's what aides are for; to read the bills and give the Rep. the short, "Classic Comic" version of it.

    Like an old employee, "older than dirt" as he called himself, once said to me as I was displaying my frustration over some snafu, "yunno boss, sometimes it just beeez that way."


    Parent

    According to TL sidebar, Baucus is (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 03:31:11 PM EST
    encountering some pushback in his home state.

    Good! (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 09:53:45 AM EST
    Anything else I'd have to say would have to be deleted.

    Parent
    "Architect Of Obama's Health Plan" (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by daring grace on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 04:49:08 PM EST
    That's the billing Tom Daschle "accepted" while speaking at a hospital industry conference last week.

    It's a NY Times article sure to reinforce your worst nightmares about the health care reform mess.

    This is really funny (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by NYShooter on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 06:26:10 PM EST
    a year and a half ago I wrote a post at Salon titled "the Greatest Con Man of All Time." The reason I bring it up today is because everything you're witnessing about Obama was as predictable as rain. Now, having said that, maybe we should re-examine how we perceive (contemptuously) the "birthers," "climate deniers," "Socialism Screamers," and all the rest.

    Not that they're right, but that we sneer, "how could they be so easily fooled?"

    They may not have our education perhaps, but then, that makes us dumber than them, doesn't it?

    I have absolutely no idea what this means (none / 0) (#63)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 09:41:22 PM EST


    Parent
    It means, (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by NYShooter on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:28:34 PM EST
    Isn't it a little disingenuous to criticize the uneducated, disinterested, and willingly led, "wing nuts" for following false idols like Limbaugh, Gingrich, Palin, et al, when we educated, sophisticated,  and rooted in reality, wing nuts followed "The One" into our present place?

    I can talk a little slower if you like...........lol


    Parent

    You may have followed . . . (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:38:30 PM EST
    but I do believe it's a little disingenuous to claim "we" followed him in the collective sense. And quite frankly, insulting to some of our intelligences.

    Parent
    First, "we?" Second, (none / 0) (#66)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 10:39:23 PM EST
    go back to analogy school.

    Parent
    O.K. (none / 0) (#68)
    by NYShooter on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:05:59 AM EST
    I see where you want to go; so, one more try, then I have to go.

    In my attempt to not come across as smug or judgmental (I did not vote for Mr. Obama, btw) I used the more inclusive "we." I had no way of knowing your comprehension was of a nature that frail that your intelligence would be offended, I do apologize. Frankly, it never crossed my mind that anyone with a modicum of intelligence would be offended by what I wrote. But, I reiterate, if yours was, I, again apologize.

    But, if we're being that picky, picky tonight, may I ask that in the future you do not refer to "our" intelligences being insulted. As you've taught us, just speak for yourself. Who knows, there may just be someone out there in the infinite nether who has more important thing to dwell upon than meaningless dreck.

    But, I may be wrong, of course. And if I am, I apologize for the third time.

    Thank you, now please, let it go.

    Parent

    I do believe you meant to reply to me (none / 0) (#69)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:32:17 AM EST
    and I ask that you notice I said "some of our intelligences" . . .

    Condescending attitudes do tend to offend . . .

    Parent

    What I noticed was (none / 0) (#77)
    by NYShooter on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 12:27:33 PM EST
    "our" intelligences" . . .

    by your rules, should've been "my" intelligence . . .

    Eithe way, just silly

    Parent

    Schumer on MTP tomorrow (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:38:56 PM EST
    from an email:

    Dear ***,

    This weekend, Chuck will be appearing on NBC's "Meet the Press" to discuss health care reform, the public health care option, and the path to passing a bill.

    You can catch Chuck's appearance this Sunday on NBC. For air times, check your local listings or the "Meet the Press" website. The program will also re-air at 2:00 p.m. ET Sunday and 2:00 a.m. and 4:00 a.m. ET Monday on MSNBC.

    Please tune in for this important discussion and forward this email to any friends and family that may be interested.

    Thank you,

    Friends of Schumer

    Perhaps he'll discuss the nationwide, robust "co-op" plan  :)

    You may have read the tea leaves! (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by shoephone on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:47:28 PM EST
    I can see it now: In September, the new framing from Senate Dems will be all about a "robust co-op plan".

    Lawd help us.

    Parent

    We used to have a robust national co-op (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 12:52:56 PM EST
    called Blue Cross/Blue Shield.  We know what became of it. . . .

    Parent
    Btw, for those who don't know (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Cream City on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 02:37:34 PM EST
    at became of BC/BS, beyond that it became corporate, of course: BC/BS was a major foe of Medicare and played a major part in not making it cover more of us.  As in the '30s with the Social Security debate, as in the '40s with Truman's very good proposal, too, the Medicare debate was another opportunity lost for a national health care plan.

    Parent
    Across the nation... (none / 0) (#59)
    by weltec2 on Sat Aug 22, 2009 at 07:48:02 PM EST
    I wonder how many people actually listened to this speech. I'm guessing 50 to 100 thousand tops. And those were already in the choir.

    I just watched and I feel very angry (none / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 09:49:56 AM EST
    and I don't know why yet.  My internals are so mad they won't communicate.

    Oh, so that what it is (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 09:52:38 AM EST
    How smug he was when he said we probably won't fix any of this overnight.  Yeah, my internals are very upset that this man can be so relaxed while America will continue to be raped while the raping is still good.  People are sick, you were their last option Mr. President and they need help!

    Parent
    Wow, I'm just flamed (none / 0) (#75)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Aug 23, 2009 at 10:02:44 AM EST
    Wasn't the greatest generation committed to taking down Hitler?  We would all take down this healthcare death camp in less than four years too.....but it is our President who is reluctant to end its existence.  I hope this President understands that at this time, if this somehow makes us the next great generation.....he's way way way at the back of the house if I decide to let him in.

    Parent
    Saturday Morning Open Thread | 76 comments (76 topical)

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