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Friday Morning Open Thread

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:05:00 AM EST
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Check out Jeralyn's account of the Denver health care reform event in the post below.

This is an Open Thread.

< Denver Health Care Event Went Smoothly | Jobless Rate Drops: Is the Worst Over? >

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    Friday Morning Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical)

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    Paul Krugman has some remarks (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:13:52 AM EST
    on the healthcare mobs.

    I don't know how right he is about the birther overlap, but my guess is that he's not far off. That's because I think his essential point about the resurgence of angry white people is on the mark.

    They essentially controlled Congress for 12 years, but ever since Sotomayor, they've come back out of the woodwork. I think Lindsey Graham's statement at the hearings that they will soon be in the minority has something to do with this.

    They sure... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:42:41 AM EST
    are angry...and almost all white.  But I'm hesitant to asign a particular brand of groupthink to all of them, people deserve the benefit of the doubt when it comes to voicing grievances...until proven to be on a payroll or insincere or xenophobic bigots.

    The leaders of the astroturf movements are the real scare...they've got money and power and proven bad intentions...the people on the street have no power, no money, and their intentions are unknown for the most part...I can't be bothered worrying about them, they will get the government they deserve.  Unfortunately though, so will we:)

    Parent

    I must have missed the time when they (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:46:22 AM EST
    were in the woodwork. Being in power certainly did not make them keep their baser instincts in check from what I could tell. Remember Bush's attempts at immigration reform that were too compassionate for his own party?

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:49:09 AM EST
    I think the immigration reform example proves that they are totally out of control.

    Parent
    I agree that something like the Sotomayor (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:52:56 AM EST
    nomination gives them a focus and brings attention to what was there all along. In that case, more incidents like that, please.

    Parent
    I'm confused (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by coast on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:33:04 AM EST
    Krugman says that he believes that the oppositon to this seems to be geniuine, but can't understand why the people are upset.  Then he basically implies that the only answer could be racial.  

    I thought that a poster yesterday was stretching is yesterday when he/she basically said that refering to the President as a criminal was racist.  I guess now the standard for being a racist is simply opposing something this administration wants done.

    Ann and others who have spoken out/questioned this reform better take heed.

    Parent

    Krugman (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:31:26 PM EST
    is undoubtedly influenced by the long history of race-based opposition to health care reform.  For example, as he discusses in his book, the Southern states opposed UHC under Truman because they were afraid that federal control of the health care system would force them to integrate the hospitals.

    That doesn't mean the opposition is still race-based today, of course, but maybe it helps to understand where Krugman is coming from a little bit.

    Parent

    I guarantee you if we took a poll (none / 0) (#54)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:37:42 PM EST
    we would find that those most opposed to reform are older, whiter, and more southern than average.

    Parent
    Even if your "guarantee" held, (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Spamlet on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:08:19 PM EST
    would that necessarily mean that an "older, whiter, more southern than average" group is more racist than "average"?

    I guarantee you if we took a poll we would find that those most opposed to reform are older, whiter, and more southern than average.

    I find Krugman's seemingly reflexive imputations of racism in today's column disturbing, and beneath his usual standard.

    So I put this question to you because--unless I misunderstand--you seem to be responding to the last part of Steve M's comment ("That doesn't mean the opposition is still race-based today"), and because you introduced "than average" as a qualifier.

    "Average" has to include everyone, no? There is plenty of de facto racism in the northern cities, some of which remain effectively divided into segregated "sides" (north and south, as in Chicago, or east and west, as in Cleveland, for example).

    Again, I'm disturbed by what seems like a reflexive move on the part of Krugman and others to paint Obama's opponents as racists, and I must add that I have never seen you do that in the past. Are you doing that now?

    Parent

    Than the average what? (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:33:56 PM EST
    People who support the Republican position on ANYTHING are older, whiter, and more southern than the average American.

    Parent
    Frankly, I think the link is right in front of you (none / 0) (#68)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:39:21 PM EST
    Just look at the message the ranters carry into the meetings.

    Parent
    I understand that (none / 0) (#71)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:42:45 PM EST
    but you are not really answering me.

    Parent
    Let's just put it this way (none / 0) (#72)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:44:40 PM EST
    Whether or not the opposition to this particular program is race based, a big reason why these people oppose Obama and Democrats IS race based. I really don't see how you can deny that.

    Remember "welfare queens?"

    Parent

    I do (none / 0) (#76)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:03:55 PM EST
    but you know I am cautious about bringing the R word into it.  Too easy to lose one's credibility, right or wrong.

    Parent
    I think our discourse would be better (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:06:39 PM EST
    if we stopped pretending not to understand what these people are really about.

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#79)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:21:35 PM EST
    but I honestly think you paint with too broad a brush.  I'm not just holding back to be polite.

    Parent
    "race based" (none / 0) (#80)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:28:24 PM EST
    a few months ago I would have taken issue with that.

    no more.


    Parent

    I wouldn't say "southern' (none / 0) (#65)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:30:32 PM EST
    more like rednecky. We've got plenty of those in southcentral PA. Unreal how many confederate flags you see around here. And most of those oppose health care reform. Certainly another case of people opposing their own best interests.

    Parent
    Out of the woodwork (none / 0) (#5)
    by CST on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:27:45 AM EST
    earlier - Obama/Clinton running for president was the first blow.  Obama winning was the end of the world.  Has anyone seen the documentary on HBO that goes around the "heartland" interviewing people about the election?  I forget what it's called, but it's frightening stuff.

    Parent
    some very cool bridges (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:22:54 AM EST
    The Root Bridges of Cherrapungee

    The War-Khasis, a tribe in Meghalaya, long ago noticed this tree and saw in its powerful roots an opportunity to easily cross the area's many rivers. Now, whenever and wherever the need arises, they simply grow their bridges.
    I just got out (none / 0) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:11:19 AM EST
    of a meeting on this.  I got these into our game.

    woo hoo.


    Parent

    Joe Conason at Salon (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:39:26 AM EST
    has a good summary of the CDS in evidence in the wake of the Big Dog mission to N Korea.

    I miss hearing Conason regularly on Al Franken's radio show. He has a good wry speaking attitude that also comes through in his writing.

    what to see what (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:18:51 AM EST
    gets effects people excited?

    Colliding smoke rings produce multiple mini-vortices

    Prediction (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:43:08 AM EST
    We'll see this again on the Big Bang Theory TV show. (best show on TV)

    Parent
    This week's R2K polling (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:06:44 AM EST
    has the Republican party at 3% with latinos.

    No wonder Cali is busto... (none / 0) (#2)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:20:42 AM EST
    they're busting a little girls chops over a lemonade stand in Fresno...I sh*t you not.

    Surprised they're not shaking her down for sales tax on the lemonade.

    A happy ending though, a local radio station sent her to Disneyland, as was her goal.

    Welcome to America kid...we're few chops go unbusted, best get used to it.

     

    more (none / 0) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:29:19 AM EST
    Wal-mart has fake Girl Scout cookies in `beta' distribution, on their way to a national rollout. Because the cookies are `reasonable facsimiles' of the authentic Girl Scout cookies (I sampled them myself at BlogHer '09 last week) and are being sold at an everyday low price, these cookies are poised to snatch cookie sales right out of the hands of the Girl Scouts themselves.

    Parent
    Good for them (none / 0) (#8)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:32:53 AM EST
    I mean, who says that certain organizations get to have a monopoly on certain kinds of cookies?

    People will still buy from the GS.

    Parent

    still (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:39:26 AM EST
    I would love to see walmart get its a$$ kicked by girl scouts.


    Parent
    I'd love to see the Walton Family... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:51:04 AM EST
    being chased down the street by an army of Girl Scouts with pitchforks and torches:)

    Parent
    I would (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:53:12 AM EST
    PAY to see that

    Parent
    I'd prefer (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:57:18 AM EST
    to see the Walton family forced to buy nothing that isn't carried at Wal*Mart stores.  A life style adjustment?

    Parent
    If we're playing tyrant for a day... (none / 0) (#64)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:29:14 PM EST
    how 'bout we make 'em work in one of the Chinese factories that supplies their plastic pieces of crap.

    Parent
    I would be even happier (none / 0) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 02:16:04 PM EST
    for them to work in a Walmart.  part time.  so no benefits.

    Parent
    Ick (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:54:09 AM EST
    Wal-Mart = the Evil Empire.

    Another reason to contine my boycott of them.

    Parent

    GS cookie quality has gone down lately IMO (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:41:04 AM EST
    I want my old Scot-teas back. If Walmart brings those back I may be induced inside for the first time in a long while.

    Parent
    I was a GS cookie taster (none / 0) (#39)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:05:42 AM EST
    Sounds like a confessional story, doesn't it?  But true.  I served on my local Girl Scouts board, and one of the cool things we got to do each year was cookie tasting to pick the best bidder.  Some people get wined and dined, but I got sugared!

    Anyway, it's an incredible complex and competitive process in some locales with several companies suitable as bidders.  But the decision comes down to your local board, I bet (if, as ever, board members -- volunteers -- much manipulated by staff :-).  Look up your local board list, see if you know someone, and speak to them about bringing back old favorites.  We did.  Mmmmmmm, Scot-Teas. :-)

    Parent

    now kdog (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:38:24 AM EST
    what if the urchin was a bad seed and into slipping ecoli or lsd into her lemonade.

    did she wash her hands?  were the lemons grown without insecticides? you dont know.

    Parent

    LOL... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:46:49 AM EST
    I'll trust random little girl over Minute Maid and the FDA everyday and twice on Sunday:)

    And if she's slippin' Lucy in with the lemons and sugar, all the better:)

    Parent

    A little vodka... (none / 0) (#25)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:13:02 AM EST
    ...would take care of those sanity concerns--and probably any pesticide related ones too.

    Parent
    Great idea... (none / 0) (#49)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:58:53 AM EST
    but then the poor kid is subject to selling booze without a license charges too, and god forbid she don't check ID's.

    Parent
    TY sir... (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:48:58 AM EST
    but you sure its not called Tyranny in Tyranny county, State of Cali-dystopia?

    Parent
    I'm just bustin' Cali's chops... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:39:03 AM EST
    We certainly don't have any less of this nonsense back east...in some ways we've got more since we've been around as states longer and more bullsh*t rules and regs clogging the books...but you guys are catching up:)

     

    Parent

    Very true... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:00:37 PM EST
    people went west because opportunity was hard to come by in the east, with the old money holding the power and rigging the game.  Kinda funny...Europeans came to the American east to escape old power and game-rigging, then did the same sh*t, forcing the next batch of arsed-out west.  Human nature I guess...get yours and keep it at any price, quickly forgetting where you came from.

    Today there is no place left to run...until climate change makes the Artic and Antartic more hospitable at least.

    Parent

    It read to me like it was more about WHERE (none / 0) (#67)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:35:53 PM EST
    she was selling the lemonade. Not that she was selling lemonade.

    Parent
    Who knows... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:50:38 PM EST
    what goes through the mind of an enforcement official about to shut down a little kid selling lemonade...besides Chuck, outside of the middle of the street or in front of a police station, is there a wrong place to sell lemonade?

    Parent
    Twitter, Facebook Attack (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:21:04 AM EST
    likely the Russians:

    A pro-Georgian blogger with accounts on Twitter, Facebook, LiveJournal and Google's Blogger and YouTube was targeted in a denial of service attack that led to the site-wide outage at Twitter and problems at the other sites on Thursday, according to a Facebook executive.

    "It was a simultaneous attack across a number of properties targeting him to keep his voice from being heard,"



    Maloney won't challenge (none / 0) (#22)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 09:56:42 AM EST
    Representative Carolyn B. Maloney is expected to announce today that she has changed her mind and will not enter the primary race against Kirsten E. Gillibrand, New York's newly appointed senator.
    Saw that (none / 0) (#23)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:07:09 AM EST
    Also, Mel Martinez is apparently resigning. Wonder how Crist is going to handle that?

    Parent
    Martinez is resigning? (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:17:20 AM EST
    That's damn interesting.

    Martinez is a Crist supporter so clearly there is a plan here.

    Parent

    "sources say" (none / 0) (#29)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:20:47 AM EST
    Story here.

    Parent
    Here too (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:38:26 AM EST
    Link

    Parent
    He says no self appointment (none / 0) (#44)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:22:26 AM EST
    I just wonder why he wanted to leave any earlier than planned. I assume personal, health, or it wasn't any fun anymore.

    Parent
    Smart (none / 0) (#27)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:18:14 AM EST
    She is out gunned by Gillibrand.

    Parent
    Told you so (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:34:27 AM EST
    At least I was right about that one.

    Parent
    Right About That One? (none / 0) (#50)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:08:45 PM EST
    But I thought you were always right.  lol

    Good call, although after you pointed out that Gillibrand had three times the $$ Maloney had, this was a given. Maloney is not stupid.

    Parent

    For those wondering in the other thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:25:38 AM EST
    how the unions feel about taxing health care benefits, here is a link to AFL-CIO on taxing health care benefits.

    In short, they're against it.

    Dem's need a backbone transplant (none / 0) (#38)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:01:04 AM EST
    I'm wondering if the Republican's are forcing that just to use as a wedge to derail the health care reform. The Democrat's need to stand up and refuse to go along with it. But the article I read yesterday says it's in the "new bipartisan" plan.

    Parent
    apparently some found it... (none / 0) (#43)
    by Pragmatist on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:12:59 AM EST
    unfortunately, they're doing it by smacking people around at townhalls in Tampa and St Louis (I think).  Good grief don't people realize that you can't accuse one side of "brownshirt" tactics and then your side take it one step farther.  I'm sure Limburger et al will have a field day with this.  "Shooting yourself in the foot" is not the best way to state your case.  It's a shame that we can no longer have civil discourse in this country.  It's ok to disagree and discuss/argue (civilly) each others points.  An occasional hoot is ok too, but attacking people & sending them to the ER doesn't endear yourself to anyone.  

    Parent
    Thanks. I was one of those (none / 0) (#41)
    by Cream City on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:08:12 AM EST
    wondering if this support of the health care bill/bills/who knows what would split unions.  That, of course, also serves the corporate world -- as does Congress, the White House, etc., these days, one way or another. . . .

    And I also saw something from a union locally that suggests this could mean bloody internal brawls.

    Parent

    US may join ICC (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:42:19 AM EST
    Hillary Clinton has signalled a significant shift by the US in favour of the international criminal court, the world body that pursues war criminals but was strenuously opposed by the Bush administration.

    In the most public expression of support yet from Barack Obama's administration, the US secretary of state expressed regret that the US has not yet joined the ICC.

    The court, set up in 2002, has pursued dictators, mainly from Africa, who are alleged to have been engaged in genocide and other war crimes.

    The US is at present not only not a member but government officials are theoretically banned from any engagement with the ICC whatsoever. An administration official predicted there will be increased US cooperation with the ICC but cautioned against expecting early entry.

    Clinton, speaking at a public meeting in Kenya, the first leg of an African tour, indicated she hoped this would come sooner rather than later: "This is a great regret that we are not a signatory. I think we could have worked out some of the challenges that are raised concerning our membership. But that has not yet come to pass."

    Link

    Conservative blogs are highly disapproving, so this can't be all bad.

    More on MJ, drugs and his doc (none / 0) (#36)
    by Fabian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 10:55:48 AM EST
    Maybe MJ should have hired an anesthesiologist instead of a GP, an expert instead of an amateur?

    AP story link.

    It seems the answer to "What killed MJ?" will be "Drugs." more precisely an over reliance on pharmaceuticals.  

    Lipstick on a 'rude little pig' (none / 0) (#45)
    by Sumner on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:23:45 AM EST
    Ireland (Addie) Eliesse 'Rude Little Pig' Baldwin and her famous father Alec, seem to have made up.

    When Ireland was 11, the outspoken Baldwin made news by name-calling his daughter a 'rude little pig' for missing his phone call. Seen before as a stumbling block to Alec Baldwin's political chances, the bad parenting episode seems now comfortably behind him.

    The father and daughter attended the SAG Awards, earlier this year, together.

    In the July/August Playboy, Baldwin is quoted as saying:

    I have sometimes thought I could move to New Jersey or Connecticut and run. I'd love to run against Joe Lieberman.

    Well there's nothing standing in your way now, Alec.

    new favorite website (none / 0) (#46)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 11:31:23 AM EST
    dont judge my hair

    Mel Martinez atepping down this month (none / 0) (#53)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:37:21 PM EST
    and not serving out his term. Charlie Crist will not appoint himself to replace him. Decent of him, since he is running for the office in 2010. I expect he will pick the weakest opponent however!

    that is Sen. Martinez (R) FL (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:37:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Expect a right wing placeholder. (none / 0) (#57)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:38:56 PM EST
    Crist isn't stupid enough to appoint himself.

    Parent
    Nooooooooooooooooooooo! (none / 0) (#56)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:37:57 PM EST
    Not Sir Bunnington Fluff III!  Please, anything but that...

    The NYTimes reports (none / 0) (#58)
    by KeysDan on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 12:48:26 PM EST
    that President Obama's decision to honor Mary Robinson with the Presidential Medal of Freedom is causing protests from some lawmakers and others who claim  she has shown a persistent anti-Israel bias in her work in human rights advocacy. Much of the criticism appears to be centered, apparently, on her ineffective leadership of an antiracist conference in Durban, South Africa in 2001.  While not previously aware of this sentiment, I do hope that this matter can be clarified satisfactory for all. I have long held admiration for much of her work, particularly, helping to finally move Catholic Ireland out of the Middle Ages. Her work in women's rights is noteworthy, including removal of bans on women serving on juries or women needing to leave civil service upon marriage. Moreover, her efforts to permit access to contraceptives and the decriminalization of homosexuality  resulted in hard-fought achievements.  Her human rights efforts did get her in trouble with the US from time to time, including the violation of human rights in the war on terrorism and her opposition to capital punishment.

    Unfortunately (none / 0) (#69)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:41:50 PM EST
    it doesn't take much to get tarred as anti-Israel in the political arena.  Physicians for Human Rights has her back:

    As it has done before, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) has led a charge, joined in the last few days by several other groups, vilifying Robinson with false accusations that she is "anti-Israel."  Most of their criticisms stem from her role at the UN Conference on Racism held in Durban, South Africa, in 2001 when she served as UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

    "In stark contradiction to these allegations, Robinson forcefully condemned Israel-bashing and anti-Semitism under circumstances where it would have been far easier to remain silent," noted PHR Deputy Director Susannah Sirkin.

    AIPAC's accusatory press release on Mary Robinson's role misrepresents what she did and said in Durban. In a single sentence, AIPAC makes two incorrect statements, saying that the final conference text passed by participating states included a passage that Zionism equaled racism, and that she supported such a text. Neither is true. Thanks in part to her tireless work, and that of others, the final conference resolution of the participating states eliminated all references to such vicious sentiments. And after a forum of NGOs issued a declaration that equated Zionism with racism, Robinson stood resolutely before hundreds of people associated with the statement, and told them that their resolution was so unacceptable to her that she would not forward it to the conference of states.  



    Parent
    I gotta ask this (none / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:00:00 PM EST
    If we don'y use the "Mandatory Link" what happens?

    your IP address (none / 0) (#70)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:42:26 PM EST
    will be sent to the Obama administration

    Parent
    Anybody droppin' (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:51:57 PM EST
    a dime on old man Jim is dead to me...just warning you guys now:)

    Parent
    I anxiously await... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 07, 2009 at 01:13:43 PM EST
    PETA's official stance on healthcare reform with this new (surely rock solid...lol) info available.

    Right now it looks like they support it in some form as long as they tax meat eaters pay for it and vegetarians get a tax break...if this letter to United Health Group is any indicator.  But if it risks the life of Jingles, they might revise their stance and be screaming at the next healthcare symposium, right next to our new buddy from Wasilla:)

    Friday Morning Open Thread | 74 comments (74 topical)

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