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    Well... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Addison on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:25:21 AM EST
    ...some guy threw some fresh meat to the media's diversion division:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32869276/ns/politics-capitol_hill/

    Perhaps I'm alone in this, but in my opinion the former president "acted stupidly." If it's about racism and race it's not about health care, as we clearly saw with the media-staged Henry Louis Gates/Cambridge Police derailment early on in the "debate" on health care.

    So now the Sunday talkers -- venerable fact-gatherers that they are -- will mostly feature Obama talking about the extent to which his critics are motivated by racism ("and please name names, Barack, to increase the replay value of this segment") instead of saying whatever he chooses to say about reforming the health care system. Thanks Jimmy!

    Jimmy is not known for being (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:29:46 AM EST
    the best politician around but he has a point.  I have criticized Obama my share but the most venal of the stuff going on now is about, I believe, his race.  it just is.  
    and there is a concentrated effort of the right to dismiss that fact.  they should not be allowed to get away with it.  maybe its an inconvenient time to be discussing it but its not like any talking head is going to talk substance on health care anyway.  if it was not this it would be something else.  Jimmy may have dad timing but Jimmy is right.


    Parent
    Course he has a point (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:39:09 AM EST
    but this is a point that, in my experience, actually becomes less effective the more often you make it.  Dunno what to do about that, really.

    Parent
    I dont disagree (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:42:31 AM EST
    with any of that.  but I think the whacko right cant be allowed to engage in the racist hatefest they have been wallowing in and then be allowed to get away with saying its about "spending" and get all uppity when someone calls them on what its really about.

    IMO. they just cant.


    Parent

    They just can't. But they are. (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:33:29 AM EST
    It reads like it's also a bit about (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:46:56 AM EST
    Georgia vs. South Carolina, the New South speaking in its somewhat patronizing tone about white trash.

    A sib who lived in South Carolina for years taught me that there are so many subcurrents in the culture there that others of us cannot know.  Some subcurrents are about race, some about class -- and some about internecine warfare going back hundreds of years that is beyond untangling.

    Parent

    Given the quality of the talking heads (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:49:16 AM EST
    discussions of health care to date, I no longer see that anything is lost by having them talk about something else.

    At this point I'd rather see Jimmy Carter out there speaking about what is going on, and having that discussion.

    Parent

    exactly (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:51:59 AM EST
    Did former Pres. Carter happen to mention (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:08:25 AM EST
    Kanye West kerfluffle and Pres. Obama's "off the record" comment re same?

    Parent
    which was beautiful (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:13:03 AM EST
    I thought.  and no I dont think Jimmy mentioned it.

    Parent
    If a sitting Pres. doesn't know nothing is (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:14:30 AM EST
    "off the record,"  not a good thing.

    Parent
    What makes you think that? (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:17:45 AM EST
    Maybe he wanted it to get out there.  After all, I'm sure a lot of people are nodding in agreement with him.  Perhaps that was the plan all along--to counter the perceived notion that he's the "hip-hop" POTUS.

    Parent
    PPUS. (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:18:47 AM EST
    All I have to say (none / 0) (#48)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:20:26 AM EST
    is how does it feel to be called a jack@ss by the President?  I bet Kanye West wishes he could turn back time!

    Parent
    Got to help music sales for Kanye. (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:26:22 AM EST
    I, for example, am kind of curious to hear his stuff now.  Never was before.  What kind of music does a jack@ass make anyhow?

    Parent
    not a Kanye fan (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:49:24 AM EST
    but I remember one pretty spectacular moment.  does anyone remember the concert for Katrina?  he did a thing on that where he was doing his stuff with about a hundred black women backing him on vocals and it was a very very cool thing.  I should see if that is available somewhere come to think of it.  it should be right?

    the other amazing thing on that broadcast was the Foo Fighters doing a cover/channeling of Creedence that opened the show.  it was spooky.  they even looked like them.


    Parent

    Kanye's sales (none / 0) (#59)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:30:15 AM EST
    were pretty good anyway.  I like "All Falls Down" but don't really keep up with his music.  Lots of stuff on youtube.

    Parent
    That's disingenuous. (none / 0) (#68)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:37:55 AM EST
    There are all manner of jerks, @ssholes, cretins, socially inept yet incredibly talented artists in every genre.  West isn't the first and certainly won't be the last.

    He certainly created a classic moment in painfully bad behavior though.

    (Ah, well.  Another reason to teach my children a minimum of manners and courtesy, plus a YouTube to watch and discuss together.)

    Parent

    First off (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:18:26 AM EST
    There is "off the record" and Moran's transgressions did him a great deal of harm.

    Second, Obama was more than happy to have that leaked anyway.

    Parent

    How did Moran's trangressions (none / 0) (#108)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:45:19 AM EST
    harm him?  

    Parent
    Nothing to do with national interest.... (none / 0) (#123)
    by sallywally on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:07:04 AM EST
    not a good thing to say or leak to press/media. He should just keep out of this kind of thing. Is he looking for a Sista Soulja (sp?) moment?

    Parent
    Talking to those school kids maybe? (none / 0) (#128)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:22:25 AM EST
    I suspect he knew (none / 0) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:15:39 AM EST
    WORM (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:18:03 AM EST
    BTW, how is the weather in C/U?  I may be in the vicinity soon (briefly).  

    Parent
    WORM? (none / 0) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:18:57 AM EST
    How so?

    Parent
    Capt. Howdy is reading the Pres.'s mind. (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:25:14 AM EST
    Guess we'll have to wait for the press sec'y to explain. Or maybe he already did.  

    Parent
    he is a pretty smart guy (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:36:13 AM EST
    if he had not wanted that printed he would not have said it.

    just MO.

    Parent

    weather in C/U (none / 0) (#50)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:22:35 AM EST
    has been awsum.  more days without rain than I think I have experienced since I have been here and perfect temps.
    supposedly a slight chance of rain on sunday and a cold front next week.  high tuesday (the first day of fall) of 69.

    Parent
    The good news is (none / 0) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:27:36 AM EST
    no one really pays attention to Carter.

    Parent
    Joe and Mica (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:31:43 AM EST
    gave him most of the show this morning.  at lease most of what I saw.  they were personally offended by the remarks.

    that alone is enough to make me agree with Jimmy.


    Parent

    The good news is (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:33:04 AM EST
    no one pays attention anymore to Joe and Mika.

    Parent
    true (none / 0) (#9)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:35:43 AM EST
    which I think this is a wash.

    Parent
    oooo its real early (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:37:20 AM EST
    which IS WHY I think this is a wash

    Parent
    No one usually pays attention... (none / 0) (#5)
    by Addison on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:33:03 AM EST
    ...to Miss California, either.

    Parent
    That is incorrect (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:33:54 AM EST
    Any excuse to pay attention to Miss __ is always seized.

    Jimmy Carter? Not so much.

    Parent

    Eh, he always seems to be there... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Addison on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:42:21 AM EST
    ...with quotes, actions, or statements associated with Hamas, Chavez, Castro, etc. I'm not saying he's wrong, or that he should shut up, but he's certainly got a perennial place of honor in the roster of the conservative noise machine.

    Parent
    Please (none / 0) (#15)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:45:41 AM EST
    give some example of the racism.

    Parent
    Uh? (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Addison on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:48:57 AM EST
    "The racism?" What are you referencing? Who are you trying to direct this request to and why? I don't see it as having anything to do with my comment, and so I'm confused.

    Are you trying to ask Jimmy Carter a question via me? That will not work. I do not speak regularly with him.

    Parent

    Wasn't talking to you (none / 0) (#34)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:12:36 AM EST
    Have a nice day.

    Parent
    stinque (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:50:45 AM EST
    has an interesting take this morning if on another instance of the subject:

    The Amazing Racism

    Monday morning, a high-school student was beat up on a St. Louis-area schoolbus. He had been looking for a seat; not finding one, he gingerly removed a bookbag occupying space and sat there. Upon which the bag's owner started hitting him. Another student joined in, and others on the bus cheered.

    Let's cast the scene. We have some options...

    (a) The student is white; the kids beating him up are black.

    (b) The student is black; the kids beating him up are white.

    (c) Open casting! Doesn't matter who plays which part, since race has nothing to do with it.

    Drudge: "WHITE STUDENT BEATEN ON SCHOOL BUS; CROWD CHEERS..."

    Malkin: "Speaking of the Obama administration and tolerance for racial thuggery..."

    Limbaugh: "In Obama's America, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering, `Yay, right on, right on, right on, right on'."

    Payback for Skip Gates? Perhaps. Deflecting attention from hung-like-a-horse Obama mounting White America? Maybe. Yet another cynical attempt to foment racism as a tool to gain power and influence? Of course.

    Parent

    Ugly video (none / 0) (#22)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:52:16 AM EST
    Not sure that race was NOT involved there.

    Parent
    it may have been (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:55:49 AM EST
    but what does it have to do with Obama, per Malkin and Limbaugh.  did this stuff only start happening on Jan 20th?

    Parent
    Ah well (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:02:19 AM EST
    Paying attention to Malkin et al is dangerous to your sanity.

    Parent
    but I think (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:12:01 AM EST
    its all related.  this, the Carter stuff, all of it.
    there is a nasty roiling racism out there that is being stirred by the right at every opportunity.

    Carter was calling it out.  

    and to fret that this is somehow distracting the MSM when otherwise they would be wall to wall substantive coverage of the peril the public option may or may not be in is just a waste of energy.

    Parent

    I'm not worried about it (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:25:26 AM EST
    Nobody cares what Carter says.

    Nonevent.

    Parent

    And who paid attention exactly? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:51:29 AM EST
    Our venerable media... (none / 0) (#28)
    by Addison on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:04:58 AM EST
    ...as they are doing again this time, as any cursory glance at CNN, MSNBC, Washington Post, ABC News, CBS News, and others. will show. It's not the main story most places -- it might not become that until tonight when the cable news guys have had a chance to puff it up and Jimmy Carter is "forced" to release a statement about the "controversy" -- but it's now folded within the story of Obama's health care proposal like a distracting tumor.

    I suppose the argument could be made that in an era of such supposedly short attention spans nothing is paid attention to, but the media talked about Perez Hilton for three weeks, so.

    Granted, if Obama and his team were to figure out a way to get around the irrelevant media, that would solve that. You're right in that very few actual people care about what Jimmy Carter said. But the media isn't made up of actual people, apparently.

    Parent

    Nobody cares (none / 0) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:24:43 AM EST
    You won't hear about it at all tomorrow.

    Parent
    Am not so sure..MSM talking non stop on carter (none / 0) (#24)
    by star on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:56:19 AM EST
    I hope you are right. Carter is a loser and all he managed to do with this stupid comment is to have the chatter media go over and over on this racism issue , when all focus now should be on getting a viable public option into a health care bill.each and every democrate should be focusing on that instead of this sillyness.
    Earlier Gates drama did the same damage .
    I feel this is more like a strategy to counter criticism , but it is going to get too costly for Obama very soon. I know of at least 4 white and 7 brown people who have chaged their party affliation from D to I in the last 2 days. not every critic of Obama is racist. actually if America is as racist as Jimmy carter made it sound, then Obama would not have got a higher % of white votes than Bush got. enough already.. was sick of last 8 years and instead of actually DOING something , this administration seems to be playing the same old dirty political games.

    Parent
    A loser? I beg to differ. (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by kenosharick on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:55:12 AM EST
    Jimmy Carter is a former president, nobel prize winner, prolific author, and humanitarian. He is the most successful ex-president in this nation's history. Not what I would call a "loser."

    Parent
    That Habitat for Humanity thing, (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:31:34 AM EST
    for example.  Pure loserliness.

    Parent
    I like and respect Carter. n/t. (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by sallywally on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:15:22 AM EST
    So do I. If he hadn't worn cardigan (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:21:21 AM EST
    sweaters and had gotten the US hostages out of Iran safely his reputation would be entirely different.

    Parent
    All true (none / 0) (#196)
    by sj on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:39:31 PM EST
    Although Bill Clinton is giving him a run for his money vis a vis the "most successful ex-president" thing.  

    I don't know what the grudge is the President Carter carries toward President Clinton, but if he (Carter) put it aside and worked with him (Clinton), I think the results would be amazing.

    Parent

    The good news is (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:01:27 AM EST
    people pay less and less attention to the MSM.

    Besides, I think you are watching too much Fox.

    Parent

    I dont know (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:18:47 AM EST
    Beck managed to turn out a pretty good crowd last weekend.
    whoevers numbers you believe.


    Parent
    Are you going to let BTD get away (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:44:27 AM EST
    with diagnosing your TV-watching habits via internet?

    Parent
    Nonsense (none / 0) (#51)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:24:09 AM EST
    70,000 people hate Obama? Stop the presses.

    Absolutely meaningless.

    Parent

    I was not surprised that (none / 0) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:34:07 AM EST
    number hated him.  I admit I was a little surprised they hated him enough to go to the mall and demonstrate.

    Parent
    Hopefully they had time (none / 0) (#64)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:35:49 AM EST
    to visit this.

    Parent
    Via Ezra (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:40:16 AM EST
    here, the cost of healthcare under the Baucus Plan:

    Remember, we're thinking of a family of four--two adults and two children--with a pre-tax household income of $66,000 that is currently uninsured, keeping in mind that most households with this income level already have insurance:

    Monthly savings required to cover average net cost of 4-year private university expenses, starting from birth: $475/month
    Fully-loaded Honda Accord or Toyota Camry, 7% interest over 5 years: $575-600/month
    Average tuition at a Catholic school: $675/month
    Baucuscare for a family of four: $700/month
    USDA/DOL estimate per-child spending for middle-income households: $800-1100/month

    Looking at the plan I think my insurance costs under it would double.

    First off, this family has an SUV and (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:11:21 AM EST
    a second car, hopefully a Prius.  

    Parent
    You disagree with the conclusion? (none / 0) (#36)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:14:02 AM EST
    It will be about the same price as owning another fairly nice car (once you consider gas & insurance costs), or sending a kid to Catholic school. And it will be slightly less expensive than having another child. These are things middle-income households currently do; they may not do all of them, but they frequently do at least one. If Baucuscare passes as currently written, it will add another major expense for uninsured middle income households (did I mention, most people at this income level already have insurance)?


    Parent
    Does sound expensive, but what type of (none / 0) (#58)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:28:49 AM EST
    parents don't get health insurance for their family but instead have a second car and kids in private school?  Rather short-sighted.  

    Parent
    well I can agree with that (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:34:36 AM EST
    but there are some out there, and helping the uninsured is the point.

    But I no longer care about those families.  I am now worried about my premiums doubling.  Me me me.

    Parent

    I kind of lost interest in them also when (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:40:26 AM EST
    I heard Medicare would be the source of savings so this proto-typical family could be insured.  

    Parent
    I didn't realize Catholic schools (none / 0) (#38)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:14:41 AM EST
    were so popular!

    Parent
    I wish they were. (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:21:00 AM EST
    As diocese populations decline, the Church is having to shutter and/or sell property that they can't afford to support anymore.  Catholic schools are losing part or all of their subsidies/scholarships.  

    (I'm indifferent to Catholic schools in general, but if I had to choose between some charter school that opened last year or a Catholic school, I'd pick the Catholic school.)

    Parent

    Forgot the big screen TV and iTouch (none / 0) (#102)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:39:20 AM EST
    for all.

    Parent
    I stopped reading when the author (none / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:57:21 AM EST
    writes that health care costs are tax deductible...and doesn't note that they are above 5% of AGI.... he obviously doesn't know what he speaks of..

    Parent
    Actually, it's worse than that: (none / 0) (#80)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:04:19 AM EST
    medical expenses must exceed 7.5% of AGI before the first dollar is deductible.

    Parent
    Thank you and (none / 0) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:18:05 AM EST
    hire an accountant to figure out the rest.

    Parent
    cool (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:20:11 AM EST
    Neat. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:25:22 AM EST
    Don't think I've ever seen them, but now I'll know to head for the storm cellar if I ever do!

    Parent
    A thing of feminine beauty? Who (none / 0) (#63)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:34:54 AM EST
    writes this stuff?

    Parent
    I didnt actually read it (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:37:48 AM EST
    Im a picture guy but I would guess it was a pun on the name.

    Parent
    Hmmm. (none / 0) (#70)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:43:51 AM EST
    Bill Richardsons gay barber (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:52:31 AM EST
    dies in a street attack:

    SANTA FE, N.M. -- Santa Fe police said an autopsy shows a 44-year-old man who died after he was found lying on a median downtown during a fiesta was not "beaten."

    City police spokesman Sgt. Jason Wagner said someone punched or struck Gilbert Roybal, which caused him to sustain a head injury, leading to his death. Santa Fe Police Chief Aric Wheeler said an autopsy conducted Monday also led police to believe that Roybal didn't sustain a number of blows before he died.

    Roybal was a hair stylist and salon owner who was Gov. Bill Richardson's barber.

    Investigators said they have no information that Roybal - who was gay - was attacked because of his sexuality.



    Why did the police feel they (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:01:21 AM EST
    had to go out of their way to say his sexual orientation was not a factor?

    Parent
    maybe because (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:08:58 AM EST
    in such cases it usually is.

    Parent
    Gays never kill gays? (2.00 / 2) (#142)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:37:57 AM EST
    Sounds like out of control PC to me.

    Parent
    that is a willfully (5.00 / 6) (#150)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:41:57 AM EST
    stupid comment that denies the threat gays live under ever single day or our lives.

    Parent
    I have heard of (2.00 / 0) (#163)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:59:09 AM EST
    other gays being killed. But when the press seems to think it necessary to believe that every gay is killed because of their sexual orientation it strikes me as just being PC.

    But remember that I am the guy who has posted he didn't care who any two willing adults married. So don't get carried away.

    Parent

    More info. (none / 0) (#168)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:25:49 PM EST
    Check out this news report.

    Roybal, was recently arrested for aggravated assault and aggravated dui for trying to run over a couple guys for being Jordanian.

    Sounds ridiculous as I write it, but that's what the police report says.

    Maybe this has something to do with it.

    Parent

    weird (none / 0) (#185)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:09:16 PM EST
    Walking while being Jordanian? (none / 0) (#187)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:11:30 PM EST
    More info needed.

    Parent
    Indeed. (none / 0) (#190)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:22:08 PM EST
    From a SF blog, not that it helps much. (none / 0) (#194)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:34:01 PM EST
    I saw Gilbert Roybal at 8:00 pm in the Lobby Bar of the Eldorado Hotel enjoying the salsa music. An employee told me that shortly after that Gilbert got into a fight near the front desk. Security was called and the fight was "moved" outside onto the street. I want to know why this is not being reported. I called the police. I also contacted Eldorado Security and they told me "the detective did not want that part of the evening in the newspaper for the sake of the case". It seems like a weird cover-up to me. There were definitely witnesses at the front desk. I find it very strange this information is not being reported. Especially since he was found at 8:40 pm. 40 minutes after I saw him.


    Parent
    Weirder (none / 0) (#197)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:42:44 PM EST
    Three witnesses also have reported seeing Roybal, who owned a hair salon on West San Francisco Street, at two downtown establishments, including the lounge at the Eldorado Hotel and Spa, Wiggins said. The witnesses said he was intoxicated and "boisterous and loud," Wiggins said.

    Security video from the Eldorado showed Roybal leaving the hotel with an unknown man, Wiggins said.

    Roybal was arrested by Santa Fe police in July and charged with drunken driving, two counts of aggravated assault, driving with a suspended or revoked license and resisting arrest. Wiggins said the arrest occurred after Roybal yelled at two other people in a car, asking if they were Jordanians, and then tried to run them off the road.



    Parent
    This question is an example (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:55:40 AM EST
    of a question that isn't really a question. It serves instead to mask a statement that the commenter prefers not to make openly.

    I can make an educated guess about what that statement is, but I would prefer to hear it directly from you. Otherwise, we may have to start us a little contest up in here.

    Parent

    You can contest all you like (none / 0) (#165)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:06:56 PM EST
    But before you do you had best do a search and discover that I have been a strong defender of gay rights, including the right to marry.

    My point was, is and will be that it looks like a case of PC run amok, whether it was the police, which I first thought, or the reporter, feeling they had to identify the man's sexual orientation and then say/question if it was/was not a factor.

    In the world I live in his sexual orientation is of no concern and should not be brought up.

    Parent

    Some of us are not fortunate enough (none / 0) (#167)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:20:18 PM EST
    to live in your world, wherever that is.

    In the world I live in his sexual orientation is of no concern and should not be brought up.

    So it's "PC run amok" to ask or even wonder whether this man's sexual orientation had anything to do with his apparent murder. Yeah, that question sounds pretty extreme--total crazy talk. I can only conclude that in the world where you live, it would also be "PC run amok" to ask or wonder whether James Byrd's skin color had anything to do with his murder.

    Or maybe in the world where you live, bad things just sort of happen occasionally to good people, darned if we know why.

    Parent

    Crazy talk? (none / 0) (#171)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:35:44 PM EST
    Rereading the press release there is no evidence that a reporter asked a question. So I revert to my comment that the police found it necessary to say that it did not. This is obviously driven by guidelines that say that all gay killings must be defined as caused by, or not caused by, anti-gay actions.

    I find that PC. You are welcome to disagree. I suspect there are many other things that we disagree on.

    BTW - Your bringing up the murder of Byrd is what? It is meaningless in comparison to this because it was obvious that racism was the motive.

    Again. His sexual orientation should not have been mentioned unless the police, or a reporter, felt that it was a factor.

    Parent

    We are BOTH speculating here (none / 0) (#182)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:57:37 PM EST
    on why the police made that statement. Just exactly where is your evidence that the police's statement was "obviously driven by guidelines that say that all gay killings must be defined as caused by, or not caused by, anti-gay actions"?

    And I brought up James Byrd because he was lynched, just as gay people and women (rape/murder = lynching) are often lynched. In the case of Byrd, "it was obvious that racism was the motive" for his murder because the people who investigated the crime sought evidence of racist intent and because there was enough widespread recognition of racism-motivated violence for them to ask whether it had played a role. See the connection?

    I'm going to go ahead and hazard a guess about the statement behind your original pseudoquestion. Here is what I think you were and are saying: "Hate-crime legislation is thoughtcrime legislation." Am I right? If so, that is the issue that some are still interested in debating--that issue, not the unknowable motives of some police spokesperson in New Mexico.

    Have a great day.

    Parent

    Hate to disappoint (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:36:27 PM EST
    but my comment was just a snark at the police for being PC.

    And you have no proof that a question was asked or that guidelines don't exist.

    As for Byrd, I don't think it took any effort what so ever for the police to see that racism was involved. So why bring up an obvious example? Could it be that you expected me to deny it? Yes. I think that was what you expected.

    As for hate crimes, if we can leave Santa Fe, do you want to debate punishment for hate crimes or definitions of hate crimes?

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#198)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:46:12 PM EST
    As for hate crimes, if we can leave Santa Fe, do you want to debate punishment for hate crimes or definitions of hate crimes?

    I think it's a legitimate debate, and I am of at least two minds about the whole issue. But it does not interest me to debate it.

    And you have no proof that a question was asked or that guidelines don't exist

    Correct. As I said, we are both speculating--recipe for a fairly pointless discussion.

    As for Byrd, I don't think it took any effort what so ever for the police to see that racism was involved.

    Exactly. You are making my point.

    Thanks, and have a great day. Really.


    Parent

    Sounds like they were answering a question (none / 0) (#137)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:32:06 AM EST
    So maybe your question is really why reporters felt they  had to go out of their way, etc.

    Parent
    That's a good point. (none / 0) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:38:56 AM EST
    speaking of dresses (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:39:24 AM EST
    this was sad.  and funny.

    It was a promise neither man would have wanted to keep. Yesterday the funeral of a Black Watch soldier killed in Afghanistan took a bizarre turn when his best friend arrived in a bright green dress and pink leg warmers to honour a pact that the two of them had made.

    Private Kevin Elliott and his friend, Barry Delaney, had agreed that whoever survived the other should wear a dress to the dead man's funeral. Mr Delaney duly fulfilled the pledge as a tribute to Private Elliott, who was killed aged 24 while on foot patrol in the southern province of Helmand on August 31.



    Tears. (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:50:03 AM EST
    BTW: another C/U question. (none / 0) (#156)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:51:09 AM EST
    How long should I allow to drive from Urbana to St. Louis airport on a Monday morning for 10:40 am flight?  Also, Mapquest has two different routes.  How would you do it?

    Parent
    from C/U (none / 0) (#159)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:56:39 AM EST
    I would go south on the 57 and west on the 70.
    its about a 3.5 hour drive.  unless you drive like me it might be 3.

    Parent
    thats 3.5 hours (none / 0) (#162)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:58:55 AM EST
    to StLouis city limits.  the airport is a good hike north and west.


    Parent
    Plan B. Save C/U for next visit to (none / 0) (#170)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:28:54 PM EST
    midwest.  

    Parent
    Target of the FBI/NYPD raids... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 08:33:55 AM EST
    in Queens is proclaiming his innocence.

    Not enough evidence to arrest, yet the guy is under constant surveillance.  Is that not harassment?

    Got to love... (none / 0) (#25)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:00:45 AM EST
    ...the "OMG he works at an airport" and "OMG he works in an airport" comments.  Let's all crap our pants in fear!  

    No idiots, he drives a shuttle van to and from the airport.

    Parent

    His story is believable too... (none / 0) (#29)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:07:48 AM EST
    it is too expensive for food vendors to make it NY unless you have a primo permit for a primo spot on the pavement...a move west for better prosperity and a trip back to visit friends makes sense to me.

    Even my law-n-order despising arse understands the FBI/NYPD have a job to do to prevent terror attacks, but sovereign individual rights come first, always...I really don't see how the state can justify a 24 hour tail from the limited info available.  Ya can't just take the state's word for it, even if the state had a trustworthy track record, which they certainly do not.

    Parent

    Did this fellow hitchhike back to NY? (none / 0) (#31)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:09:41 AM EST
    Show me the money.

    Parent
    The dude lives with his parents... (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:19:44 AM EST
    ...in a modest home, has a decent job and drove to NYC.  Doesn't take AQ funding to do that.

    Parent
    He rented a car and drove . (2.00 / 2) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:50:56 AM EST
    He could have flown cheaper.

    The question becomes, why did he want to avoid airport security?

    Parent

    Yeah... (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:02:21 AM EST
    ...just like John Madden and thousands upon thousands of other people who fear/hate flying for whatever reason.  

    They all must be terrorists, right Jimbo?

    My friend took Amtrak back to Iowa to be with his dying Father yesterday.  That red hair of his must make him a terrorist trying to avoid airport security.

    Parent

    I have driven many times (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:05:42 AM EST
    instead of flying, even though flying would have been cheaper. It gave me an opportunity to see parts of this country I never would have seen otherwise.
    I still have not done the coast to coast drive but I am planning to do it someday.

    Parent
    put me on that list (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:09:57 AM EST
    I will do almost anything to avoid flying.  plus I like trains and love road trips.


    Parent
    I try to avoid airport security... (none / 0) (#86)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:11:44 AM EST
    like the plague, its why I chose a cruise for my last vacation...and I'm paler and clean shaven.

    Until some evidence is presented, there should be no questions.

    Parent

    Did you drive to and from port? (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:33:00 AM EST
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#106)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:44:02 AM EST
    sailed right out of the Manhattan.

    Parent
    As I recall... (none / 0) (#110)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:46:20 AM EST
    ...kdog booked the cruise out of NYC specifically so that he didn't have to deal with the hassle of flying anywhere.

    So, I imagine he did take some sort of land based motor vehicle transportation to get to the port.

    Parent

    The only details I recall are about (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:01:37 AM EST
    the amazing female he met.

    Parent
    Speaking of which... (none / 0) (#134)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:27:18 AM EST
    help a brother out...the special lady's birthday is coming up...do I send a collection of some of my favorite albums and spanish translations of my fav. literature as a gift...or is that to me-centric?  I'm thinking its a good gift, sharing some other passions of my soul.

    Otherwise I'm thinking old standby flowers and chocolate.  

    Parent

    Jewelry n/t (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Spamlet on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:34:21 AM EST
    Bad experiences... (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:40:00 AM EST
    with jewelry in the past, apparently I have awful taste in it...according to more than one ex:)

    Thanks though Spamlet!

    Parent

    I was thinking jewelry too. But with her (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:46:53 AM EST
    selecting the actual piece of jewelry.  'Course that could get rather expensive for you.

    Parent
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#160)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:56:43 AM EST
    I'll never make that mistake again...the next time I buy jewelry for anybody they're picking it out.

    That'll have to wait for a time when we're together.

    Parent

    How about a surprise visit? (none / 0) (#169)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:28:04 PM EST
    I wish... (none / 0) (#173)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:40:22 PM EST
    out of vacation days, short on expendable cash.

    I'm shooting right after the new year for one of those.

    Parent

    Post a PayPal link! (none / 0) (#174)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:45:07 PM EST
    Whats a paypal link? j/k (none / 0) (#179)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:51:40 PM EST
    Nah...way more deserving cats than me for charity, I'm livin' the relatively good life on peanuts!  

    But thanks, you're aces kid:)

    Parent

    New subject: guns on trains. (none / 0) (#181)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:56:34 PM EST
    Sounds reasonable to me... (none / 0) (#183)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:06:57 PM EST
    as an anti-gun pro-gun rights guy...its about time we started scaling back some of the post 9/11 panic laws and free this joint up a little, if not a lot.

    It's not like you're allowed to bring 'em on the train...just store them in luggage like a plane.

    Parent

    Think this will help Amtrak's bottom line? (none / 0) (#184)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:08:11 PM EST
    I think that... (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:14:49 PM EST
    bottom line is beyond help, unless the TSA institutes mandatory anal cavity searches on planes.

    Parent
    What about something that reminds her (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:16:13 PM EST
    of where you met?  I'm thinking a really beautiful shell something-or-other, or perhaps wind chimes.  Maybe a phalenopsis orchid plant in a beautiful container.

    From what you said after you returned from your cruise, it was a magical time for you - and if that is how she feels, too, what better gift than something she can look at and be swept back to that time?

    Speaking only for myself, the gifts that have touched me the most are the ones that showed me that the giver was really paying attention to who I am, and what matters to me.

    Parent

    Thanks Anne... (none / 0) (#175)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:46:20 PM EST
    I think you've got me on the right track...she's big into yoga and meditation...I'll look into something along those lines....maybe some books or an artistic yoga mat!

    I knew some of my favorite sh*t was to me-centric...I just like gifts that turn me onto new sh*t I don't know about.

    Parent

    I think you should put this up for general (none / 0) (#139)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:34:43 AM EST
    discussion.  Just don't take a bottle of Boone's wine and sit under the freeway overpass w/her!

    I like the flowers and chocolate idea.  But then, I'm not into your musical idioms!

    Parent

    Thanks pal... (none / 0) (#151)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:43:19 AM EST
    though she genuinely seems to like all the youtube links to tunes I send her.

    And by all means, anybody chime in, I'll take all the help I can get:)

    Parent

    Sorry, man, I got nothing. (none / 0) (#164)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:04:05 PM EST
    The 4 worst days of the year for me are Valentine's Day, her B-Day, our anniversary & Christmas.

    I never do it right.

    Parent

    LOL... (none / 0) (#177)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:48:19 PM EST
    as a natural stand-alone loner I haven't dealt with this kind of pressure in awhile!...:)

    Parent
    You get it figured out... (none / 0) (#186)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:10:03 PM EST
    ...be sure to let the rest of us know.  You could become a very rich man!

    Parent
    LOL... (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:18:13 PM EST
    I'll let y'all know what I choose and how it goes over...but even if a smashing sucess I couldn't start selling relationship snake-oil with a straight face...I have some scruples my brother...and I don't want the hassle of getting sued:)

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#201)
    by sj on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 02:07:39 PM EST
    Yeah, because he surely would have gotten more respectful and courteous treatment at an airport.

    Parent
    Ha. (none / 0) (#57)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:27:02 AM EST
    Does he have his own blog? (none / 0) (#109)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:45:41 AM EST
    Yes... (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:58:15 PM EST
    ...and he got to meet with Bill Clinton too.  Told me he wasn't going to tell you about it either...

    Parent
    Fashion advice requested: (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:37:23 AM EST
    Going to my first ever hs class reunion in SE Iowa.  Sat. night event is billed as "dressy" and being held at the country club!  So I asked the organizer to poll her friends and get back to me.  Response:  two women are wearing black.  Not "too" dressy.  Bottom line:  pretend you are going to church (but not as people show up at church now--think 1959).  

    Any suggestions?  

    P.S.  I did try watching Mad Men on the plane Monday night.

    Wear something you're comfortable (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:00:27 AM EST
    in, that makes you feel good - I always think understated elegance and classic style won't let you down.  I'm thinking Talbot's, Ann Taylor - something in that area.

    Parent
    As a self-imposed exile to CA I think I (none / 0) (#82)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:08:13 AM EST
    can be comfortable but not Talbotty.  They will probably be disappointed otherwise.

    Parent
    You are right (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:18:18 AM EST
    I also lived in CA when I went to reunions back in small town Illinois - they seemed to appreciate a little different style than what they had back there. Of course these days regional differences are not as pronounced as they were back then.

    I had a red and black skirt and wrap top with kind of a Spanish flair to it. Not bare at all, but had some style.

    Parent

    I forgot about the (none / 0) (#95)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:29:23 AM EST
    California factor!  You can definitely get away with something with more edge - as long as that's your style to begin with.  :-)

    Parent
    Thanks. I appreciate your input. (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:10:24 AM EST
    Oh well, I guess my (none / 0) (#97)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:31:25 AM EST
    suggestion of dress paired with something from Oculus' Harry Winston jewelry collection would be off the mark then..... :-)!

    Parent
    That is so "me." However did you know? (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:40:06 AM EST
    LOL.....it is more an indication (none / 0) (#113)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:53:58 AM EST
    of the vast amount of time I have on my hands to indulge my imagination (or lack thereof!)

    Parent
    I did think it amusing my friend sd. (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:55:13 AM EST
    dress like we used to dress for church, not the way people dress for church now.  So I guess no shorts and beer T shirt and flip flops.  What a drag.

    Parent
    If I am told a function is "dressy" (none / 0) (#129)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:24:42 AM EST
    but not too "dressy" I stick with a black cocktail dress. Boring but safe!
    Something like this or this.
    I have bought dresses that are almost identical to those two for a fraction of the price on sale at Macy's.

    Parent
    IF I looked remotely like those models, (none / 0) (#133)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:27:02 AM EST
    that would be a great idea--with great jewelry and shoes.  But I don't.  Plus, we really didn't dress that way for church, even back in the day!

    Parent
    Oculus, you are killing me here! (none / 0) (#158)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:56:05 AM EST
    I don't look remotely like those models either but the dresses still worked.
    And besides, who wears church going outfits to an event on a Sat night at the country club?


    Parent
    Here's what I'll probably do: (none / 0) (#172)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:38:07 PM EST
    long wine-colored silk skirt, black silk kind of girly top, great jewelry, and black sandals with Saworski crystals (much teasing from my friends about these shoes!).  

    Parent
    Sounds elegant and classy! (none / 0) (#176)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:46:56 PM EST
    black sandals with Saworski crystals (much teasing from my friends about these shoes!).  

    Only because they are green with envy on the inside....... :-)!!!!

    Parent

    These shoes, which I dearly love, (none / 0) (#178)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:49:07 PM EST
    tend to fly off if I walk too fast.  

    Parent
    BTW, our French foreign exchange (none / 0) (#135)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:27:46 AM EST
    student is attending this year's reunion.  All eyes will be on her.

    Parent
    A safe choice (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:12:32 AM EST
    would be a nice pair of dressy black slacks with an evening blouse...something silky and with a fancy collar. Use jewelry to raise or lower the dressy level.

    Parent
    That's one possibility. (none / 0) (#115)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:55:42 AM EST
    Depends on the year (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:16:24 AM EST
    I found 10 year reunions to be all about job and who married who. One dummy actually wanted to be called Dr. So dress your best and rent a luxury car to drive..

    Twenty year reunions are about children. Plans for Harvard and such are widely discussed. Possession arrest discussions are not allowed. (Like calling Obama a liar.) So dress your best and rent a luxury car to drive.

    Thirty year reunions are about what YOU have done with YOUR life.  You may discover that EVERY male in the class played football and scored four touch downs against Polk High. Hitting the girl voted most "unchanged" is not only allowed, but encouraged. Dress as you please since everyone will get so plowed they won't remember anyhow.

    Fifty year reunions are about just being happy to have survived. No one remembers what you did in high school and if they do, no one cares. Pictures of grandchildren and great grandchildren are expected. Tips on cheap drugs....Rx drugs...will make you famous. Also knowledge of where you can buy bulk fiber will gain you fans.
    Dress as you please since no can remember what you wore for more than two days.

    I hope these help.

    Parent

    Ha. You missed the 15-year reunion (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 12:56:26 PM EST
    but I did not (because I deliberately missed the 10-year reunion when I was pregnant, and I was d*mned if I was going to be the one who reappears looking huge and with swollen ankles and unable to dance as well as in high school, when I could star on the dance floor).  So, the 15-year reunion. . . .

    It also was about children, but in a way that was a hoot.  We were in three groups.  Group One was the largest, those of us who had delayed reproducing until our late twenties, so we had to leave by midnight to get home to be sure our kids were home.

    Group Two was the smallest, and truly pathetic -- the guys who had left their first wives and families and reappeared with their trophy wives who did not relate to our music at all . . . and they all had to leave by 10 p.m. to get home to get the babysitter home or because the trophy wives were breastfeeding . . . because these guys had babies at home again.  So the guys also had to quit early because they were just exhausted from doing it all again.  Hahahahahaha.

    So Group Three was the envy of us all.  These were the ones who had married straight out of high school or college and had babies right away, which seemed so foolish to others of us at the time.  But that meant that Group Three's kids were grown and gone, and they got to stay until the place closed at 2 a.m. -- and then they went on somewhere else to keep dancing!  Or so the rest of us got to read about in the next alumni newsletter.  Sigh.

    Parent

    Well, I was not available (none / 0) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:25:32 PM EST
    for the 15th..being a place far away..but I would have been in group three.. Funny though, I don't think we had a group two or group one.

    Parent
    Hahahah (none / 0) (#93)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:29:05 AM EST
    this is hilarious.

    Parent
    And I just attended (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:51:22 AM EST
    my 53rd....

    (After 50 the class size starts dropping so fast yearly get togethers are needed. The meetings should always be near a hospital and folded around "nap time.")

    Parent

    Here's a sad example. HS football (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:58:34 AM EST
    team quarterback was in my class.  He was a junior.  His senior class cheerleader is pregnant.  She has to drop out of school altogether.  He can't be the quarterback now.

    He just died after confirming he would attend this reunion.  Life is short.  

    Parent

    Yes, indeed. No grandkids or (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:42:29 AM EST
    great grandkids.  No knowledge of contemporary needlework practice.  I plan to listen alot and ask open-ended questions.  I expect this to be a very interesting experience.

    Parent
    church, circa 1959? (none / 0) (#200)
    by sj on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 02:07:35 PM EST
    Probably don't need the hat and gloves, though :)

    Parent
    Well that was interesting! (none / 0) (#72)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:50:35 AM EST
    Went to read Greenwald, stumbled onto the Atlantic 50 - the 50 most influential commentators, all media types.

    Some of the list was depressingly familiar (#2 Limbaugh) but it was an interesting read.  It did make me realize just how stacked the deck is when Jonah Goldberg outranked Joe Klein and Bill Moyers.

    interesting (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:54:42 AM EST
    we have one and eight out of the top ten

    Parent
    I find it interesting (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:10:03 AM EST
    that Maddow outranks Olbermann.

    Parent
    noticed that (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:15:39 AM EST
    and she should

    Parent
    Ahhh, but does she get (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:15:59 AM EST
    paid more?

    I thought she was a Rhodes scholar. Seems they would have had to give her something special to encourage her to join their MSNBC team.

    Parent

    Three tidbits (none / 0) (#74)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 09:53:34 AM EST
    from Think Progress this morning:

    Number 1:

    In his address to Congress last week, President Obama created some new difficulties by failing "to come down clearly on either side of the public insurance option debate." "Generally with regard to the public option and everything else, they haven't provided a great deal of guidance or follow-up about what these things mean," said a top House Democratic aide.

    The light dawns: Obama has commitment issues.  I think someone should tell Obama that the problem with walking the fence is that if one walks it long enough without choosing a side to stand on, the greater the chances one will fall and land on the fence, and that's painful.

    Number 2:

    The Wall Street Journal reports that proposed health insurance mandates could "squeeze" the middle class. Robert Blendon, who teaches health policy and political analysis at Harvard University, told the paper, "Unless subsidies are substantial, you're going to have middle-class resistance to this."

    More statements of the obvious, but maybe there's something refreshing about the WSJ having a "Duh!" moment now and again.

    Number 3:

    In a Wall Street Journal op-ed, Sen. Max Baucus (D-MT) writes, "The Senate Finance Committee proposal builds on what already works and fixes what threatens to break the bank for future generations." But Baucus' proposal has thus far failed to receive the support of Republicans -- and even some Democrats -- in his committee.

    Max Baucus might as well be named Max Fawk-Us, and whoever decided he should be the go-to guy in the Senate on this issue ought to be institutionalized.  Oh, wait - the Senate is an institution; that explains a lot.  

    I'm starting to think it's time for a People's Congress, if only for the symbolic middle finger it would raise to the Corporate Congress that is currently "running" the country.

    Call me racist....cause here is a criticism (none / 0) (#92)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:20:26 AM EST
    I thought only the evileeeeeeee Bush did such

    The White House is collecting and storing comments and videos placed on its social-networking sites such as Facebook, Twitter and YouTube without notifying or asking the consent of the site users, a failure that appears to run counter to President Obama's promise of a transparent government and his pledge to protect privacy on the Internet.

    Link

    Of course Bush was targeting terrorists... wait... now I see why Obama is doing what he is doing.

    Saw that (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:29:11 AM EST
    this morning and it sure gave me the creeps.  As if people needed another reason to fear for their privacy when voicing any grievances with their government.

    In case Uncle Sam is storing and mining TL comments let me just say I've been really high all these years and didn't mean a word of it...honest:)

    Parent

    you moonie times piece (none / 0) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:31:24 AM EST
    also says this:

    Defenders of the White House actions said the Presidential Records Act requires that the administration gather the information and that it was justified in taking the additional step of asking a private contractor to "crawl and archive" all such material.

    why shouldnt they first of all.
    and second since Obama has recieved several hundred times the death threats of any other president I am sure there is an element of security involved.
    and why shouldnt there be.  and why in hell would not expect a comment or video you post to be archived?


    Parent

    Goodness (none / 0) (#117)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:59:21 AM EST
    You think Bush didn't get any threats?? That is risible...

    And if it was bad for Bush to do such things looking for terrorists, why is it OK for Obama to listen in on US citizens engaged in free speech?

    As for your snark about the WT, I find that I must stoop to such sources because the main stream media know nothing... Why ABC's Charlie Gibson claimed to know nothing about ACRON employees in 4 locations giving advice on how to not pay taxes and start up prostitution rings of underage illegal alien females.

    Looks to me like we need more Moonies, not fewer.

    I mean, really................

    Parent

    I did not say Bush go no death threats (none / 0) (#121)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:03:02 AM EST
    sorry 400% not times:

    Since Mr Obama took office, the rate of threats against the president has increased 400 per cent from the 3,000 a year or so under President George W. Bush, according to Ronald Kessler, author of In the President's Secret Service.

    and Im sorry you think we need more moonies.


    Parent

    3000 a year? You must be kidding (none / 0) (#130)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:25:08 AM EST
    He got more than that in one day one the far Left blogosphere.

    But I guess all this means that you think it is okay for the government to spy on citizens as long as it is for the President's security, but not okay to spy on terrorists??

    Parent

    Interesting (none / 0) (#99)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:32:25 AM EST
    if I send a letter to the White House, is it evil for them to keep it?

    Parent
    I'm thinking of posting (5.00 / 4) (#105)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:43:13 AM EST
    pics of my dog on their site to see if I can get her in the Presidential records {grin}

    Parent
    Don't do it stray... (none / 0) (#192)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:27:18 PM EST
    what if your babies resemble dogs seen in an AQ training video?  Don't put them at risk!...:)

    Parent
    honestly (none / 0) (#101)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 10:34:54 AM EST
    No, because you sent the letter (none / 0) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:02:52 AM EST
    to the White House......

    As compared to a software program, unannounced, looking for key words and phrases on the Internet.

    See the difference?

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 0) (#132)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:26:57 AM EST
    I don't see the difference between sending a letter to the White House and posting a comment on the White House's Facebook page.  I truly don't.

    Perhaps you missed the word "its" in this sentence:

    The White House is collecting and storing comments and videos placed on its social-networking sites such as Facebook, Twitter and YouTube

    The article does not say the White House is data-mining the Internet as a whole, but simply that it is saving comments on its own Facebook page.  Big deal.

    Parent

    And I am sure that (2.00 / 0) (#149)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:41:40 AM EST
    everyone who used the facilities thought they would be saved...

    And that you believed Bush when he said only terrorists....

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 0) (#161)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:57:02 AM EST
    if you're going to resort to the "Obama is surely doing much worse things than what the article actually says" argument then it's obviously impossible for me to respond.

    I am sure there are people who sent letters to the White House over the years who had no idea those letters would be saved.  Big deal.

    Parent

    For evasion (2.00 / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 01:27:44 PM EST
    I advise you to check the mirror.

    Parent
    Trying to think what video I might (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:29:05 AM EST
    want to put on the WH Facebook page.  Still thinking.

    Parent
    how about this one (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:36:44 AM EST
    "Promises Promises"

    You made me promises promises
    You knew you'd never keep
    Promises promises
    Why do I believe
    All of your promises
    You knew you'd never keep
    Promises promises
    Why do I believe

    Promises
    Promises
    Promises
    Promises
    Promises

    Parent

    Funny, But sore loser--primaries (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:38:28 AM EST
    are over. Oh wait:  GE.  

    Parent
    do you not realize (none / 0) (#122)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:04:26 AM EST
    that every single thing you transmit on the internets is archived.  by someone.

    it is.


    Parent

    Oh I understand that i spossible (none / 0) (#131)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 16, 2009 at 11:26:17 AM EST
    The question becomes, who "someone" is.

    And why they are doing it.

    Parent