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Wednesday Open Thread

It's a busy work day for both BTD and me today. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome. I'll be back this evening.

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    Barney Frank (5.00 / 0) (#17)
    by CST on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:26:08 PM EST
    being targeted by the tea party.

    I thought this statement was a bit... funny:

    "Massachusetts voters proved that they're sick of liberal career politicians who are out of touch with the nation, and it's time to send Barney into retirement"

    using the Martha Coakley/Scott Brown election as an example.  Which is silly, since I am pretty sure Ted Kennedy would've cleaned his clock.  And Martha was not an incumbent.

    I doubt Barney's in trouble, I sure hope not.  Here is Barney telling the white house not to appeal DADT until congress can repeal.

    Just as a reminder, the ruling that was appealed today was the DOMA ruling - saying that people who are legally married under state law must be federally recognized.  No decision has been announced yet on DADT, I think there is some confusion there.  Although I imagine they will repeal.

    In some ways this is worse, as they have no "process" argument to make on DOMA.  Not that that's really a good argument.

    19 Senators (none / 0) (#20)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:40:49 PM EST
    urge Attorney General Eric Holder not to appeal the worldwide injunction on enforcing the military's Don't Ask Don't Tell policy. Some surprises on the list.

    Senators John Kerry (D-MA), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), Roland Burris (D-IL), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Bernard Sanders (I-VT), Jeff Merkley (D-OR), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Tim Johnson (D-S.D.), Al Franken (D-MN), Barbara Boxer (D-CA), Russ Feingold (D-WI), Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.), Richard Durbin (D-IL), Bob Menendez (D-N.J.), Michael Bennet (D-CO), Barbara Mikulski (D-MD), Sherrod Brown (D-OH), and Ben Cardin (D-MD). FDL


    Parent
    I was wondering where Gillibrand was (none / 0) (#22)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:44:18 PM EST
    and I see she's a ringleader again :)

    Parent
    No R's on the list, hmmm (none / 0) (#27)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:03:11 PM EST
    is that (none / 0) (#28)
    by CST on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:07:33 PM EST
    really surprising in any way?

    Parent
    Typo? lol, just kidding (none / 0) (#37)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:33:28 PM EST
    Ummmm (none / 0) (#59)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:49:37 PM EST
    Not really.  All D's and one I (go, Bernie!).  And not all that many Dems, for that matter.  Eighteen Dems and an Independent, who caucuses with the Dems.  A rather poor showing, IMHOP.  

    Parent
    Might be easier to list... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:48:50 PM EST
    those the tea party hasn't placed a target on...I mean we got all of Brand D, Half of Brand R, the immigrants, the muslims, the gays, the liberals, the hippies, the godless, activist judges, need I go on?

    You could call that bullseye a badge of honor...be proud Barney!

    Parent

    Valerie Jarrett probably said (none / 0) (#151)
    by KeysDan on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:52:00 PM EST
    the best things that could come out of her heart. Indeed, she may have been given the interview assignment with Capehart because she was an/the administration official who is truly  sensitive to the issue.  The concern, as I view it, is that while well-intentioned, as senior WH official, she reveals under-informed thinking controlled by outdated stereotyping.   The underlying problem with this White House is that it does not seem to have any gay men or women in senior positions to provide the advice that is so needed.

    Parent
    It's a conundrum, Tracy (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:10:08 PM EST
    I have been an anti-war activist since my senior year in high school, while always respecting the individual soldier/sailor/Marine/aircorpsman (and the women) for what they felt needed to be done to protect our country.  My problem has always been with the policies of our country, which, to a huge extent, have been way, way wrong-headed.  And what do you do about the kid in high school, who has listened to the recruiters sent to his/her school, who doesn't have a prayer of a chance of getting a decent job after graduation or going on to higher education, and who joins up, thinking that the military is the way to a better life and more education?  And then he/she finds themselves continually deployed overseas, to a war that is, frankly, pretty meaningless to them?  I wish I knew the answer.  Maybe the answer is to reinstate the draft (much as I hated it), with absolutely no deferments.  That way, if every family in the country, including those in power, faced the absolute possibility of their kids possibly getting killed, maybe we'd think twice about sending our troops overseas.  I realize that there was a draft during the Vietnam War, but there were too many deferments, and even so, it affected enough Americans that, finally, finally, it had to stop.

    I see every soldier as their own (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:57:20 AM EST
    story as well.  I still can't believe that my marriage and my family survived Iraq intact.  Who knew we were this strong, made of the sort of stuff that could do that? Many marriages and families did not make it, some wives just couldn't handle the stress and either a divorce took place or a soldier got out (and how sexist of me because I also know of one wife soldier who was left by her husband because she would not get out and was going to do a second tour in Iraq....she felt so guilty she gave him the house in the divorce but she was doing her duty and that was that).  That time was probably one of my few learning moments about negotiating.  When issues and feelings got really wild we used to have to write our fights down.  I would cuss him out on a legal pad, hand it to him, and he would respond.  Funny as hell looking back, we started doing it to get rid of the yelling but what took place was that both of us ended up being very clear about what was hurting us, what life was all about, priorities, what one could live with and one could not, and there was a history in writing of how we came to understand each other and what solutions and promises were made.  It was sort of amazing, but I don't want to do it again at that level of extreme :)

    Parent
    the (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:27:48 PM EST
    hypocrisy! it burns.

    The New York Daily News is reporting  that Paladino, a property owner in Buffalo, was more than happy to be the landlord of two gay bars, Cobalt and Buddies II.  No exact figures on how much he profited from the gheyz.  Oh, and his son was one of the managers of Cobalt, a rocking nightclub, which according to the Daily News, was:

       catering exclusively to gay clientele, holding drag queen nights and featuring "boy-tenders" behind the bar.

        A March 2005 review of Cobalt in the Buffalo News described it as "Way Gay," noting, "The queens, the techno, the cocktails, the kind of gyration normally confined to Manhattan was in full flaming force at Cobalt."

    no word on if the gyrations involved speedos.

    Enjoyed that... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:44:57 PM EST
    in the local papers today...the News and the Post should pay Carl for all the ink he gives 'em!  Newspaper gold!

    Safe to assume Crazy Carl would slumlord over his own mother...the man has no principles and no shame.

    Have you heard how he treats janitors in his employ?  Even your mother-in-law can't speak ill of Carl if you work for the bastard.

    I told ya this clown would make for an especially silly silly season.

    Parent

    fairly remarkable segment (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:45:27 AM EST
    on Maddow last night.  she interviewed two high level active duty gay service members including an f16 pilot.

    it was about a gripping as cable tv gets for a post modern gay man.

    the guy made the most cogent argument I have ever heard against DADT.  and so simple.  paraphrase:

    "let any straight couple be told that they have to keep every detail of their relationship a secret and even the relationship itself.  they cant even show normal affection in the yard of their home in case some neighbor is military or knows someone who knows someone.  let them be in a situation that if one of them was sick or even god forbid died while they were on duty they could not go to them without risking their career.  lets see how many of them this works for"

    I also think it's psychologically (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:50:40 AM EST
    toxic to be in a dangerous and isolated environment, and be unable to be even remotely truthful about who you are to the people around you who need to trust you.

    Parent
    Good point (none / 0) (#135)
    by republicratitarian on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:15:40 PM EST
    make a career in this type of hostile environment? Not snark, serious question.

    Parent
    Other than, of course, "duty." (none / 0) (#144)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:02:04 PM EST
    well (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:08:44 AM EST
    I guess you are asking the wrong person because I dont get it either.  I would not have gone to fight the wars.  I told my family in the 70s that I would go to canada, kiss the recruiter or whatever I had to do but I would not go.  and I DAMN sure wouldnt go if they didnt allow me to be honest about who I am.

    but I know some of those men.  if fact I lived with a career navy for 9 years.  I know they have their hearts in the right place.  how many of us would endure what they do to serve. and that is why they do it.  the one I was most familiar with seemed to think serving was something he owed his country.  he was also from a military family.
    I guess the short answer is, its complicated.

    Parent

    For the same reasons (none / 0) (#148)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:18:41 PM EST
    anyone else does I imagine.

    What do you think would be a greater detriment to joining the military - a "hostile" environment in Iraq/Afghanistan?  Or DADT?

    If one is inclined to join the military, for whatever reason, I imagine they consider that the benefits outweigh the risks.

    Not to mention, frankly, that they might have to deal with this type of hostility at home as well.

    Parent

    sure everyone joins the military becuase of an overwhelming sense of duty, though I really don't know.

    To answer your question, the interviewee says, paraphrased, he's fine with fighting in the wars, it's DADT that makes him want to leave the military. iow, DADT is the greater detriment.

    Parent

    anywy, continuing to do it in the military may not sound so oppressive.

    Parent
    if I was advising gays in the military (none / 0) (#1)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 12:55:31 PM EST
    I would say come out.  today.  en masse.  let them kick you out and fight their own damn wars.

    f*ck um.

    Sh*t... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:01:24 PM EST
    I'd advise the same for hetero soldiers.

    Parent
    Ha! (none / 0) (#4)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:04:20 PM EST
    LOL! (none / 0) (#8)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:09:21 PM EST
    Kdog, you're right.  Just imagine what would have happened to DADT earlier if, say, at least 3/4 of all the military claimed they were gay/lesbian (whether they were or not).  Complete chaos in the military, which leads to the old question:  "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"

    Parent
    If I had been trying to serve in Iraq (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:20:19 PM EST
    The day after I realized that there never were any weapons of mass destruction, I would have been so gay. I would have been outta there and never able to trust service in military ever again.

    Parent
    The day after my unit was notified (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:51:42 PM EST
    of our pending mobilization a few years ago, I received two letters from two soldiers saying that they were gay so they wouldn't have to go. I don't agree with DADT, but pulling the card so you don't have to do your duty is chicken $h1t.

    Parent
    Well, maybe these straight soldiers just want (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:00:39 PM EST
    to be treated equally. Why should the gay soldiers have special rights that let them out?

    Parent
    My only problem... (none / 0) (#34)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:27:20 PM EST
    with that play is some poor slob ends up going in their place...other than that, don't chickenhawks with chickensh*t policies deserve chickensh*t plays?

    Same story as walking away from mortgages...it's only a problem when the proles find an angle to shoot, the ruling class and elites can angle-shoot all day long no worries.

    Parent

    I only speak from the military leadership (none / 0) (#42)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:47:41 PM EST
    perspective. I'm not sure what the chickenhawks with chicksh*t policies means, but yes, when one person can't or won't go, then some lucky slob does get to go in there place. More time to train, more time to integrate, blah blah blah.

    My main problem with that is a person can serve for years and have no problem collecting that paycheck, but when it comes time for the rubber to hit the road, you see what people are really made of.


    Parent

    I hear ya.... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:55:09 PM EST
    but Iraq was a rather special case r-crat...a special shady case.

    I get that once you sign the line you surrender your sovereignty and follow orders and all that...but as far as I'm concerned the invasion of Iraq was so unprecedented that I really can't blame a soldier for balking on their contract...it's not like they were being called to defend the nation or anything, they were called for very dubious reasons.  Thats a contract null and void-er in my book...every soldier had/has legit grounds to balk at that mess.  

    Parent

    I get all of that (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by republicratitarian on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 04:08:50 PM EST
    trust me, there wasn't a a day that went by, or still goes by,  that I didn't know exactly what the deal was, just like the rest of the country. But soldiers do what soldiers do, follow orders. Accomplishment of the mission and welfare of the soldiers, politics be damned.

    Joe Biden's son was our JAG officer in Baghdad. At least he had the stones to deploy.

    Parent

    Props respect to you... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 04:47:47 PM EST
    and your stones too man...seriously.

    It takes some stones to say no as well though, don't it?  People can get caged for refusing to deploy.  

    To each their conscience as their guide, or something like that.  I got mad respect for conscientious objectors as well, and can understand going the shady route in a society that values shady.  Do what you gotta do...I just don't think anybody owes the US govt. a debt so large they gotta go to Iraq to pay it...maybe the person they fight next to, but not Uncle Sam...no way no how.

    Parent

    There is no special case for (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:01:39 PM EST
    real soldiers kdog :)  I live with one of those :)  There is no such thing as a special case when it comes to your duty.

    Parent
    I can respect that commitment... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:20:07 PM EST
    but can't share that view...thats a recipe for getting yourself used and abused.  

    Cats like Darth Cheney count on that sense of honor and commitment to do their dirty.

    Parent

    Well yeah :) (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:55:53 PM EST
    A lot of that happened.  And then some took all their training and the investment of the nation and split to go make real money as mercs with no rules to follow.

    Parent
    Oh....and winger glory hound officers (none / 0) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:00:14 PM EST
    Who couldn't wait to go and become the hero they always knew they were, but crap...someone brought real bullets for the other side and people started dying and real blood too.  After they got home they couldn't wait to skate to some DOD stateside job ASAP.  I remember none of them fondly because they were such outrageous glorified a$$holes for awhile :)

    Parent
    I can imagine... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:23:35 PM EST
    it's a sweet-arse daydream that one.

    Not unheard of either...I've heard stories about the hetero boys switching teams for a day when they got called down to the induction office in the Vietnam draft era.  

    Parent

    Oh, I knew (none / 0) (#18)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:27:25 PM EST
    a few young men who did that, way back in the day.  It worked for them, and they were gunning to be academics (went on to advanced degrees), so they weren't worried about what the effects of being thought "gay" would have on future employment, which was a consideration for some back in those times.

    Parent
    It hurt in academic employment (none / 0) (#33)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:19:55 PM EST
    on many campuses then.  I knew guys who did this, too, thinking that the social progress of the time never would end.

    Then came the conservative backlash of the mid-'70s.  And, of course, social progress even of the mid-'20s variety has yet to hit some in academe as a lot of workplaces.  

    It was so sad, but at least those guys didn't mutilate themselves as some did to avoid losing body parts or losing their minds in that war.

    Parent

    It did, (none / 0) (#41)
    by Zorba on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:47:10 PM EST
    on some campuses, but not as badly as it did in private industry or government employment, back then.  The guys I knew went to private, pretty liberal universities after they got their advanced degrees.  It was different for the state colleges, though, in particular.  It was a terrible, terrible time, one that I wish had never had to happen.  I was active in the anti-war protests, and this created tensions in my own family, but I don't regret a single protest.

    Parent
    According to a story (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:15:24 PM EST
    In Stars and Stripes today:

    While Justice officials contemplate the next step, the California court injunction leaves closeted gay servicemembers in a quandary.

    Without an appeal or a stay from a higher court, the "don't ask, don't tell" law is no longer enforceable, and Pentagon officials cannot dismiss troops for declaring their sexual orientation.

    But if a higher court later overturns the ruling, gay troops won't have any immunity from prosecution simply because an injunction was in place when they came out, according to Greg Rinckey, a Virginia attorney whose practice focuses on military issues.

    "They could end up in even more trouble," he said. "If the Justice Department does file an appeal and ask for a stay of the injunction, everything could go back to the way it was."
    Alexander Nicholson, director of the gay advocacy veterans group Servicemembers United, said they are urging gay troops "not to change anything" until the legal issues are finalized.

    "It's just another step in the process," he said. "But it's encouraging to see this judge take a courageous step forward, when Congress has been much slower to take that same action."



    Parent
    oops (none / 0) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:17:26 PM EST
    in my rush to both work and surf I misread the DOMA appeal as a DADT appeal.

    no excuses. the DADT appeal will happen soon enough.


    Parent

    Gates has now come out and said (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:11:03 PM EST
    that this is something that Congress needs to decide so I'm banking on the Administration appealing.

    Parent
    This is all going down 180 degrees (none / 0) (#32)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:15:17 PM EST
    from what I had anticipated.

    Parent
    ditto (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:31:53 PM EST
    we are so naive

    Parent
    Speak for yourself. (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:54:20 PM EST
    I am not surprised by any of this, sadly, in terms of the president's principles.  Those were clear.

    I am admittedly surprised by just how much he and his mishandlers are showing their lack of political experience.  Pandering to people who won't vote for him and abandoning people who would vote for him is just beyond me, so it must be 17th dimensional chess.

    Parent

    But (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:01:18 PM EST
    We were PROMISED that experience didn't matter!

    Parent
    Yes, if President Obama (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:16:17 PM EST
    acted decisively on this issue shortly after his inauguration, with an executive stop order and a serious charge to the Democrats to repeal legislation (heck even Lieberman would be on his side) the issue would have been at least in the process of,  largely, non-controversial implementation. But, he was stuck in fear of the circumstances that President Clinton encountered, not seeming to grasp the differences in the circumstances he encountered.  

    Parent
    Sucks (none / 0) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:03:30 PM EST
    I have someone less than a 100 feet away from me right now who would lose a rank in retirement pay at least because she hasn't been at that rank for three years, and are they booting them while allowing them to keep their benefits or are they being stripped of everything?  I know she plans on a DOD job after retiring from active duty, but getting kicked out would probably black flag all that too.  If I were young I might, if I were heavily invested I don't think I could bring myself to do it.

    Parent
    And they are pissed too (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    I don't care what Obama pulls out of his backside in two years.  I don't think they'd vote for him again ever.  He stabbed them in the back more than once on this and they are furious like I've never seen furious.

    Parent
    I am starting to see (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:07:50 PM EST
    very little reason to vote for him.

    Parent
    The lesser-of-two-evils (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Cream City on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:43:27 PM EST
    argument just isn't working for me, either -- as on so many issues about which I care so much, including this one, the Obama administration simply seems evil.  And duplicitous, too.  

    So is it better to be hypocritically evil or overtly evil?  This is the choice I have now?

    Parent

    It is how I experience it too (none / 0) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:53:01 PM EST
    I remember the State of the Union when he said DADT was going away tomorrow :)  Every Dem was on their feet clapping and cheering.  The cameras flew to the Joint Chiefs who weren't clapping and cheering because they aren't supposed to at the SOTU. Theirs is to sit and serve, not to have opinions.  They looked like a bunch of old guys wanting kids to get off their lawn in that moment.  With them sitting there stoic faced and the way the camera sought them out, all blame was being placed on them.  And now look who is appealing today.  How am I not supposed to feel that this administration isn't evil and duplicitous.

    Parent
    we just found out (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:07:57 PM EST
    that in the new game, Saints Row 3, Burt Reynolds will play himself as the mayor of Steelport.  the most corrupt city in america.

    cool

    Parent

    how much (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:07:15 PM EST
    demeaning can they take?  way more than me.  thats for sure.

    this is a backhanded slap to every gay person serving.  I should say ANOTHER backhanded slap.

    Parent

    Funny that (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:16:22 PM EST
    It was the Log Cabin Republicans that brought the DADT suit....

    pretty smart (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:18:39 PM EST
    either way they win

    Parent
    I've heard from multiple sources... (none / 0) (#12)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:17:47 PM EST
    that the Roger Waters "The Wall" show is absolutely phenomenal...any TLer had the pleasure?

    My boss even called me in his office this morning, I'm thinking "what did I do this time?", but all he wanted to do was rave about the Nassau Coliseum gig.  Tickets are mad pricey, but I might have to find a way to see it when Waters comes back this way in Nov...this one boss is normally the quiet reserved type but he was like a kid at Christmas because of this show.

    In the meantime, Ryan Bingham tomorrow (only 15 bucks!)and Citizen Cope on Saturday...long live rock-n-roll!

    They've been playing his "Depression" (none / 0) (#16)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:24:29 PM EST
    on my local college radio station. Really good.

    Parent
    Its the quiet reserved ones you (none / 0) (#19)
    by coast on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:37:48 PM EST
    have to look out for.  Surprised he didn't hit you up for a little something before the show.

    Parent
    Ssshhh.... (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:51:44 PM EST
    thats the worst kept secret in this office coast!

    From what I hear this boss needed no help from the likes of me back in the day...he is the favorite of my many bosses...the Lumberg impersonating one has probably never heard of Pink Floyd.

    Parent

    Here you go Howdy (none / 0) (#21)
    by CST on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 01:41:47 PM EST
    rage on.

    Link

    "The Obama administration is expected to appeal as soon as Wednesday a federal judge's ruling that halted the Defense Department from enforcing its policy that bars openly gay people from military service, according to senior administration officials familiar with the government's plans."

    Obama is making sure that (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:13:35 PM EST
    he hits all the bases (i.e all the important issues for his base) before the election.

    President Barack Obama's announcement Wednesday that he'll lift bans on new drilling for oil and natural gas off much of the U.S. coastline drew criticism from environmentalists and halfhearted welcomes from Republicans, even as Obama called it only one part of a broad strategy to reduce foreign oil dependence and enact climate change policy. His administration will allow further study and new drilling to proceed from Delaware to Florida, starting with leases off the Virginia coast, as well as off the oil-rich eastern Gulf of Mexico. link

    At the rate he is going, the Dems will be lucky if anyone votes for them.

    Parent

    maybe I wont even (none / 0) (#36)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:33:14 PM EST
    need to cut and paste

    sigh

    Parent

    time for a teabagger memo? (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:43:25 PM EST
    on the other hand (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:43:59 PM EST
    why bother when the democratic president is doing their work for them.


    Parent
    `I Love You Phillip Morris' (none / 0) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 02:47:42 PM EST
    In August, Roadside Attractions picked up rights to distribute I Love You, Phillip Morris in North America. The film, directed by Bad Santa writers Glenn Ficarra and John Requa, has been at the center of a distribution mess all year. But the film will now see release in the States on December 3.

    Bad Santa  co-screenwriters Glenn Ficara and John Requa re-team for this fact-based black comedy starring Jim Carrey as a Texas police officer-turned-con man who makes the leap to white-collar criminal after being sent to prison and falling in love with his sensitive cellmate. Steve Russell (Carrey) is a small-town cop. Bored with his bland lifestyle, Russell turns to fraud as a means of shaking things up. Before long, Russell's criminal antics have landed him behind bars, where he encounters the charismatic Phillip Morris (Ewan McGregor). Smitten, Russell devotes his entire life to being with Morris regardless of the consequences -- which could well include a life sentence.

    I really really liked Bad Santa

    I liked Bad Santa too (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:14:57 AM EST
    Very interesting allegations... (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:13:57 PM EST
    against the house robber cartel(s) otta FLA.  

    That "foreclosure expert" who walked your foreclosure through for the mortgage servicer or financial institution? He/she was possibly a former Walmart "associate" or hairstylist who barely understood what a mortgage is.  The only qualification required to be a "foreclosure expert" is to be a sheep who doesn't ask questions and will work for cheap.

    Lovely...I guess real "foreclosure experts" expect to be paid like experts, or (gasp!) ask questions...house robber cartels can't have that!  Robosign or we'll find somebody who will! Oink oink oink!

    Please let their greed bite them in the arse this time...please, please, please.

    not pi$$ed enough today? (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 03:41:21 PM EST
    here ya go:

    Christian compassion requires the truth about harms of homosexuality

    Tony Perkins is President of the Family Research Council.

    I didnt make it thru the first "paragraph":

    The media has recently been filled with reports of several recent suicides by teenagers  who are reported to have been victims of "anti-gay" bullying. Some homosexual activist groups lay blame at the feet of conservative Christians who teach that homosexual conduct is wrong, as well as pro-family groups such as Family Research Council which oppose elements of the homosexual political agenda, such as same-sex "marriage."

    but the comments are pretty good.

    Tony Perkins (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 04:36:42 PM EST
    Just proves he has no understanding of Christ's teachings.

    Parent
    They've all gone so nuts (none / 0) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:13:31 AM EST
    having a black President, would they melt like the wicked witch if we ever have a gay President?  I think I just found some enthusiasm, but no where to spend it yet :)

    Parent
    maybe I will run (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:40:26 PM EST
    I cant do worse than Palidino

    Parent
    When Isaac Katz came out of (none / 0) (#60)
    by KeysDan on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 04:00:39 PM EST
    the closet, he did so by taking the doors and hinges along with him.  In a moving essay that he submitted for publication in the St.Louis Post Dispatch, he described the anxiety of telling his parents about his life during last summer's college break.

    His essay noted his difficulties in coming to the realization of his sexual affections, suicidal ideations and name-calling, playful to a brother, yet hurtful to him.  His coming out story, not unlike that of many gay women and men, bore additional drama in that his father, Dr. Jonathan Katz, Professor of Physics, at Washington University has been a long-standing author of anti-gay writings in which he states that he is a "Proud Homophobe".

    Professor Katz claimed that gays should be shunned because they are "physically and morally responsible for AIDS."  Dr. Katz was appointed by the Obama administration to be one of a five-memberd panel of scientists to assist in the BP oil spill.  His tenure lasted but a few days. After his controversial writings came to light he was given the boot by Secretary of Energy Chu.  

    dog video of the day (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 05:15:11 PM EST
    nice looking pups! (none / 0) (#65)
    by nycstray on Wed Oct 13, 2010 at 05:58:57 PM EST
    check out this one that i noticed while watching yours . . .

    Parent
    Choices (none / 0) (#70)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:09:29 AM EST
    If the choice is Obama or Palin/Newt/Romney, do we really think that people are going to sit at home and say "Obama is horrible so I am going to chill out an let the REALLY ridiculous conservatives take over"?

    Everything seems clear cut when the consequences of the alternative aren't obvious.

    But let's have six months of Palin and Newt battling to see how far right they can go.

    I think a lot of disappointed dems are going to remember what's at stake with the quickness.  Then I think what Obama has done will come into proper perspective.  When he's fighting a real bad guy/girl instead of the demon of unrealistic expectations, he'll be fine.

    gee, i didn't realize Obama was (5.00 / 4) (#71)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:26:57 AM EST
    running . . . . it's 2010 not 2012.

    When he's fighting a real bad guy/girl instead of the demon of unrealistic expectations, he'll be fine
    ummm, in case you've missed it, O doesn't fight . . .


    Parent
    Well he kinda does... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by sj on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:13:38 AM EST
    ... when he's running for something.

    Parent
    So, this is about whether (5.00 / 4) (#77)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:56:29 AM EST
    Obama will be fine?  Thanks for reminding me that, of course, this is all about him.

    Ugh.

    As for "what Obama has done," I guess they've decided to go with the metric of "the other guy is worse," because that's the only way "what Obama has done" doesn't look so bad to Dems who wanted - and were led to expect - so much more.  Now, it seems to be about the message that it could be worse.

    Sorry, I don't know how this is ever supposed to move Obama - or any of the Dems who tacked to the right with him - in the more leftward direction we want them to; the farther right the other side goes, the easier it is for these New Dems to lay claim to territory that is unquestionably right of center, and keep inching ever rightward to fend off the never-ending claims by the other side that Obama and Company are hard-core leftists.

    That "demon of unrealistic expectations" was created, fostered and exploited by Obama when he ran for this job, so if he is now suffering under the weight of those expectations, that's on him - not us.  At every turn, at every point along the way, there have been clear choices that would have taken us, if not to the truly progressive finish line of some of those expectations, then at least closer to realizing them.  Please don't bring up health whatever reform: it isn't at all progressive, it isn't what most people wanted, and watching the whole thing unfold, he chose the conservative, corporate-friendly option every single time.

    That - and so much else - is on him.

    Yes, I know that we aren't going to get progressive policies from Republican candidates - but we aren't getting them from the Democrats now, and re-electing these New Dems and possibly Obama in 2012 isn't going to change that.  So the problem Obama and the New Dems have is that if we're going to get Republican policies from Democrats, what's the point of voting for Dems?

    He's got two years to be the kind of Democrat that Democratic voters want him to be; if he can't do that, if we keep getting more conservative policies, and he decides to go for four more years, I will take the same approach I did in 2008: I won't cast a vote for any presidential candidate.

    The problem isn't with the voters - it's with the choices the voters are being given.  And as long as all we are told is important is that the other guy is worse, the lower the quality of the choices we will have.

    It has to stop somewhere; might as well be with me.


    Parent

    "Proper perspective"... (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:13:02 AM EST
    ... = what ABG thinks is correct.

    "The demon of unrealistic expectations" = what he promised to do when he needed your vote.

    Parent

    I think that the last thing you or Obama (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:41:45 AM EST
    should wish for is that more people get the proper perspective on what he and the Dems have done and have not done. If Obama gets his way and the Cat Food Commission cuts Social Security by raising the retirement age and or means testing it, you might get what you wish for and not in a positive way.

    Parent
    Obama on Obama 2.0 (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:05:56 AM EST
    And despite the predictions that Democrats may relinquish a large degree of legislating power, including perhaps control of the House and even Senate, President Obama isn't thinking of the next two years as a period that will be marked with the same obstructive nature from the GOP.

    "It may be that regardless of what happens after this election, [Republicans] feel more responsible, either because they didn't do as well as they anticipated, and so the strategy of just saying no to everything and sitting on the sidelines and throwing bombs didn't work for them," Obama says in the article. "Or they did reasonably well, in which case the American people are going to be looking to them to offer serious proposals and work with me in a serious way."

    More about PPUS 2.0 from Obama Dems:

    Dick Durbin says Obama's post-election agenda "will have to be limited and focused on the things that are achievable and high priorities for the American people." Tom Daschle says Obama has to reach out more: "The key word is inclusion. He's got to find ways to be inclusive." link

    When Daschle talks about inclusion I doubt seriously he is talking about people on the left.


    Parent

    the interview that came from (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:10:19 AM EST
    is the best illustration recently of Over-Their-Heads.

    why the HELL would be go on the binge of navel gazing three weeks before an election.

    why would he be talking about working with republicans when the party is desperately trying to defeat them.  it is absolutely nuts.

    these people are not ready for prime time.

    Parent

    more (none / 0) (#115)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:14:39 AM EST
    This tells me a lot regarding (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:43:23 AM EST
    Obama 2.0 and I don't like it at all.

    Are there any Republicans Obama 'trusts'? Baker asks. The president names just two -- and one of them won't be in DC next year.

    Sen. Judd Gregg (R-NH), once Obama's choice for Commerce Secretary, makes the list. But, as the president laments, "Judd's retiring." Then there's Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI), who Obama says "has got a lot of attention is absolutely sincere about wanting to reduce the deficit." Still, Obama says that Ryan's plan doesn't "add up."

    Ryan whose "great ideas" about reducing the deficit through more tax cuts to the rich, reducing or freezing all domestic spending, replacing Medicare with vouchers, and partial privation of Social Security has won him a place on Obama's Cat Food Commission.  

    Parent

    And I am not encouraged by this, (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:07:18 PM EST
    from that NYT piece:

    While proud of his record, Obama has already begun thinking about what went wrong -- and what he needs to do to change course for the next two years. He has spent what one aide called "a lot of time talking about Obama 2.0" with his new interim chief of staff, Pete Rouse, and his deputy chief of staff, Jim Messina. During our hour together, Obama told me he had no regrets about the broad direction of his presidency. But he did identify what he called "tactical lessons." He let himself look too much like "the same old tax-and-spend liberal Democrat." He realized too late that "there's no such thing as shovel-ready projects" when it comes to public works. Perhaps he should not have proposed tax breaks as part of his stimulus and instead "let the Republicans insist on the tax cuts" so it could be seen as a bipartisan compromise.

    So, the "brilliant" politician apparently hasn't figured out that the conservatives labeled him a tax-and-spend liberal Democrat precisely because they knew it would make him putty in their hands, guarantee that Obama would move ever rightward, and he's just informed them - and us - that he's willing to accept more bad policy in the interest of bipartisanship.

    I'm pretty sure there's a term for someone who is willing to compromise on every issue, but it's probably not printable.

    In any event, he seems obsessed with gaining the approval of those who aren't supposed to be on his side by virtue of their political affiliation, and walking all over those who are.  

    And it's not making for good policy or good governance.

    I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm just so, so impressed that he has the time to devote to the oh-so-important issue of his fracking "branding;" I'm not sure it's possible he could be any more self-absorbed.

    Parent

    Obama 2.0 . . . (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:16:24 PM EST
    perhaps some folks on the left can hack into the system and do an override :)

    Parent
    And fix the glitches, please! (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 03:51:48 PM EST
    Ugh, Obama 2.0.  Still with this talk for the "creative class."  Ugh.

    Parent
    In any event, he seems obsessed with gaining the (none / 0) (#160)
    by Amiss on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 02:59:05 AM EST
    approval of those who aren't supposed to be on his side by virtue of their political affiliation, and walking all over those who are.

    Always has been my biggest problem with him.

    Parent

    I cant decide which (none / 0) (#123)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:46:13 AM EST
    is more stunning insane.  the things he said three weeks before an election or that he gave that interview at all.

    if ever there was an reinforcement of his navel gazing its all about me personality this is the all time winner.

    Parent

    The majority of the actions (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:28:43 PM EST
    that Obama has taken in the lead up to the midterm elections hurt rather than help Dems at the ballot box. He has basically cut them off at the knees on winning issues. These positions and statements are pretty consistent with his actions since he became President. I would be more sympathetic to the current Dems in office except for the fact that they assisted him in passing bad legislation and have consistently backed away from taking firm stands for good policies.

    My sympathies seem to lie with all the people these policies harm now and in the future. I wish I had an idea on what actions to take to move our government away from its "bought and paid for" corporate agenda. As long as corporations are "people" and can purchase politicians and policies at will, I don't know how we can change it.

    Parent

    its a tough call (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:48:37 PM EST
    but this is my favorite quote:

    "I was looking over some chronicles of the Clinton years," Obama says, "and was reminded that in '94 -- when President Clinton's poll numbers were lower than mine, and obviously the election ended up being bad for Democrats -- unemployment was only 6.6 percent. And I don't think anybody would suggest that Bill Clinton wasn't a good communicator or was somebody who couldn't connect with the American people or didn't show empathy."

    no, they also would not suggest that he would be stupid and self absorbed enough to provide this spectacle three weeks before a critical election.


    Parent

    I'm guessing that rather than looking (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:47:39 PM EST
    over a "chronicle of the Clinton years," he was probably obsessively checking to make sure that he was still ahead of Bill in the poll number wars...these kinds of things are apparently very important to him.

    Because he still thinks this is all about him.

    Parent

    When I read that comment (none / 0) (#141)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:46:19 PM EST
    My first thought was, "But Obama is also no Bill Clinton who could connect with people."

    Parent
    Obama trusts Ryan? That does it. (none / 0) (#155)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 03:52:56 PM EST
    Ask us in Wisconsin:  Ryan is awful.  Check out his close call with corruption from, where else, Obama's Illinois. . . .

    Parent
    More Obama 2.0 (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 02:16:30 PM EST
    Rouse and Messina see areas for possible bipartisan agreement, like reauthorizing the nation's education laws to include reform measures favored by centrists and conservatives, passing long-pending trade pacts and possibly even producing scaled-back energy legislation. "You'll hear more about exports and less about public spending," a senior White House official said. "You'll hear more about initiative and private sector and less about the Department of Energy. You'll hear more about government as a financier and less about government as a hirer." NYT

    Vote Democratic for Republican legislation you hate. Somehow that doesn't inspire me to back the Democratic Party with my $$$ or my vote.


    Parent

    Think Mitch Daniels instead (none / 0) (#75)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:27:17 AM EST
    For the Republican nominee in 2012.

    Then let's do some comparing.

    Parent

    unrealistic expectations (none / 0) (#76)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:51:37 AM EST
    would that be that he would do one SINGLE thing he campaigned on doing?

    public option?
    repeal DADT?
    end the war?

    should I go on?  I can.


    Parent

    what you should (none / 0) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 08:59:26 AM EST
    really be worried about is someone like Bloomberg


    Parent
    yea... (none / 0) (#80)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:12:51 AM EST
    I don't see him running in 2012 unless things look really hopeless for the Dems (and I do not think they will be as hopeless as many on this blog suggest).  Incumbents in general are a lot harder to throw out - and I think Bloomie would wait for one he thinks he can win.  My money is on 2016 - which could be a pretty interesting year if Obama wins in 2012.  Wide open.

    Parent
    I am not so sure (none / 0) (#83)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:21:06 AM EST
    Obama looks weaker by the day.  and if some yahoo gets the republican nod I think his chances may be better in 2012 than for an independent in my lifetime.  particularly one who can virtually self fund if he wants.

    also I think his actions recently make it very clear he is at least considering it.

    and you know what I would consider voting for him.


    Parent

    Bloomie's not so bad (none / 0) (#84)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:26:25 AM EST
    I actually have a lot of respect for him.  And I think he is definitely considering running one of these days.

    But I don't put much stock in predictions 2 years out.  I still remember everyone predicting Obama's demise against McCain.  And then the market crashed and it was a walk in the park.

    A lot can happen in 2 years.  It really doesn't matter what Obama looks like today.  But in general, incumbent presidents tend to do fairly well.

    Parent

    if he is considering running (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:30:13 AM EST
    I cant imagine why he would pass up running against the most feckless president since Carter who has thrown every constituency he ever had under the bus and some crazy republican yahoo and wait to run against Hillary.


    Parent
    Hillary might not run (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:41:30 AM EST
    I really have no read on that.

    I think it depends on one thing, and one thing only - the economy in 2012.

    Politics has a short memory.  I'm not even sure the tea party will still be around in 2 years if they can't win this november.

    Parent

    IMO the only way Hillary runs (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:44:22 AM EST
    in 2012 is if Obama chooses not to go for a second term. Just don't see it happening.

    Parent
    thats not what I meant (none / 0) (#91)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:51:38 AM EST
    I think (none / 0) (#92)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:52:55 AM EST
    we're talking 2016 here - re. Hillary.

    I agree there is no way she runs in 2012.  I think Howdy is saying Bloomberg wouldn't want to run against her in 2016.

    Parent

    also (none / 0) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:57:39 AM EST
    I think there is more going on that the economy.  sure its important but I think we have to acknowledge that Obama has brought the crazy in our political system.
    that is hardly his fault but its a fact.

    Obama is going to have other problems in a second run than the economy.  what ever it is doing IMO.

    if we were in the middle a second Clinton type expansion that might be one thing but I have not seen anyone say they expect that in 2012.

    Parent

    i'd like to see Bloomie run against (none / 0) (#95)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:01:32 AM EST
    the crazy.

    Parent
    ditto (none / 0) (#96)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:04:13 AM EST
    it just seems to me that it would be so easy for him.
    as they say, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

    Parent
    it would certainly be intriguing (none / 0) (#98)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:07:45 AM EST
    He's pretty good at putting the crazy in it's place.  Certainly better than Obama - who I think will always struggle in that regard because there is a certain amount of it that is... personal.

    Parent
    ugh (none / 0) (#101)
    by CST on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:11:25 AM EST
    3 "certain"s in one short comment.

    Parent
    to clairfy (none / 0) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:53:32 AM EST
    I dont see why if he is considering ever running Bloombery would pass up a chance to run against Obama and some yahoo in 2012 and wait to run against Hillary in 2016.  
    and she will run.  trust me.


    Parent
    O.K. to clarify (none / 0) (#100)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:10:43 AM EST
    how do you see this scenario playing out? Do you picture Bloomberg running as a D, a R, or an I.

    Can't see a win for him in any of the above categories in 2012.  

    Parent

    obviously (none / 0) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:13:54 AM EST
    in independent.  and I would simply disagree.

    people are more fed up with parties than any time in my lifetime.  on both sides.  he has practically unlimited money.

    Parent

    i'd vote for him over O (none / 0) (#103)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:23:51 AM EST
    unless something seriously changes in the next 2 yrs with O.

    Parent
    today (none / 0) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:33:38 AM EST
    so would I

    Parent
    But... (none / 0) (#104)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:31:22 AM EST
    ...he is height challenged.  At 5'6" (some say 5'8"), that puts him at a serious disadvantage with a voting population that tends to vote for tall candidates.  

    Put him next to someone like Mittens and it would be pretty obvious...

    Parent

    bumper sticker (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:33:15 AM EST
    Bloomberg: its about stature not height

    Parent
    Stature? (none / 0) (#126)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:30:37 PM EST
    Are you seriously suggesting that the average voter in fly-over country would see him as anything other than another slick, elite, out-of-touch New Yorker, much less know anything about him or his "stature"?  

    How'd it work out in the Heartland for Rudy or Hillary?  Hint:  Not well  Who was the last big city mayor elected President?

    Parent

    Obama (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 03:18:41 PM EST
    comes off as a professor which doesn't play well in fly over country either so if that's your point, then Obama shouldn't run either.

    Anyway, by the time 2012 comes around and we've had 10% unemployment for years, I don't think any of that is going to matter.

    Parent

    I think you are underestimating (none / 0) (#127)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:37:11 PM EST
    both Bloomberg and fly over country.  people are hungry for authenticity and honesty.  if he can get that going he is trouble on the hoof for the parties.

    just MO.

    Parent

    Nope... (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:04:36 PM EST
    ...not at all underestimating anything.  I've lived in fly-over country my whole life and as such, I'm well tuned in to what does on here, what is important and how things and people are viewed.  

    Bloomberg will never have authenticity here.  Is he going to be able to find locals to run his campaign in places like Iowa or will he have to bring in outsiders?  I'm guessing the later and that won't be a favorable.  Carpetbagging may have been coined for the post civil war South, but the same concept still applies in the Heartland...

    Where does he stand on issues like Ag subsidies or water rights or mineral extraction or immigration?  

    Parent

    I have no clue (none / 0) (#134)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:09:29 PM EST
    but part of me hopes we get to find out.

    Parent
    oh (none / 0) (#128)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:38:53 PM EST
    i forgot the most important one.  competency.

    B has plenty of that.


    Parent

    In our "American Idol" (none / 0) (#131)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:56:38 PM EST
    culture, I'm not sure enough voters value competency. I was so positive that after two terms of living through W's administration that it would be something voters would place a high value on. The voters proved I know absolutely nothing about politics in this era. Also, look at the current stable of candidates who are running this year and are not being laughed out of existence. Some of these idiots are running neck and a few will probably win.

    Parent
    well the candidates you talk about (none / 0) (#132)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:04:06 PM EST
    are not national. for one.
    also I think, I really really really do think, that NEXT election may very well be about competency.


    Parent
    Here is a little ditty that might (none / 0) (#136)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:16:01 PM EST
    stir up memories of past rhetoric. From DE debate:

    QUESTION: A United States Senator has the opportunity to determine, in a way, the make up of [the Supreme Court.]  So what opinions, of late, that have come from our high Court do you most object to?
    ...
    O'DONNELL:  I'm very sorry.  Right off the top of my head I know that there are a lot but I'll put it up on my website, I promise you. Think Progress

    I realize that O'Donnell is going to lose but consider, the above response is one of her better moments and the most recent SUSA poll has her getting 33% of likely voters and TPM Poll Average gives her 36.6%. Delaware isn't exactly the reddest state either.

    Parent

    well sure (none / 0) (#137)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:20:06 PM EST
    first you are correct. she will not win.  she will not even come close.
    second we have known for a while that approx 30% will vote for charles manson or kim jong il if they have the right letter after their name.


    Parent
    We will need to talk about this after (none / 0) (#139)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:34:29 PM EST
    the election and count how many of the less than qualified candidates won. I think there will be more than a few.

    Parent
    its a date (none / 0) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:44:46 PM EST
    I think most of them will lose.  some will win for sure.  particularly with the gobs of money people like the chamber is pouring into local elections but I think the cream of the crazy crop will go down in flames.

    Rand may be the exception.

    Parent

    Bloomberg has always struck me as (none / 0) (#157)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:31:40 PM EST
    the ultimate NY/Wall Street insider. Maybe that may return as a plus in two years.... Yet, I'm with MileHi on this one. At least, ole' Giuliani tried to build a (cough cough) "hero" reputation for a time. But, what is with Bloomberg? What areas or groups does he appeal to...even with his $$$ (Perot had $$$; Meg Whitman has $$$?)  Really. I don't understand why a mayor who faced a surprising challenge in his own NYC last time would be attractive to the rest of the country? Maybe I'm missing something?

    Parent
    I think MO would be considered (none / 0) (#138)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 01:30:24 PM EST
    fly-over country. IIRC Obama won the state 49 - 48 by winning only St. Louis and Kansas City. Hillary won all the other districts with the widest margins in the more rural counties. Hillary could have won the primary easily here against any other candidate. Had Obama not gotten in the race, IMO Hillary had a real good chance of winning the state in the general as well.

     

    Parent

    Didn't Bloomberg have trouble (none / 0) (#156)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:23:57 PM EST
    with meeting voting expectations last time...even in his NYC? The Bloomberg thing is fascinating, especially because the press tends to tease with it so often. Yet, most people--outside of NY and environs--have absolutely no idea who he is. The Perot of the mid-Atlantic, maybe?

    Parent
    I think most of that was due to the rule change (none / 0) (#159)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 07:05:39 PM EST
    and there's a certain segment that can't see past his billions to what he really does. all in all, he generally has high approval for day2day running of the city.

    if he rolls out national, i think he has more than Perot and Nadar in his bag of tricks. he's actually done a lot. and i don't think you would see him going off the rails . . .

    Parent

    Naw (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 03:16:14 PM EST
    John Kerry had quite a few inches in height on W. and we all know how that one ended.

    Parent
    I agree People are more fed up (none / 0) (#107)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:40:11 AM EST
    with the standard two parties than any time in my lifetime. Yet, I think each party has 30+% who will pull the lever for a D or a R no matter what. The disenchanted will be inundated non stop with the meme that voting for Bloomberg will be the equivalent of voting for the Dem or the Republican.  

    Also, big business will spend whatever it takes to elect someone who is going to continue to write and pass legislation that is for their benefit regardless of how it harms the masses. If they were to back Bloomberg, we would end up with much of the same legislation as we get now.
     

    Parent

    for him to be president (none / 0) (#109)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:47:17 AM EST
    that percentage has to drop by one point below 33 on both sides.

    a plurality wins.

    Parent

    and B is a Billionaire (none / 0) (#110)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:49:24 AM EST
    he will have all the money he can spend if he doesnt raise a cent.

    plus, I would not be afraid that a significant segment of that money would fall in right behind him.


    Parent

    afraid (none / 0) (#111)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:50:32 AM EST
    to bet that is

    Parent
    an (none / 0) (#113)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:58:35 AM EST
    example

    McKinnon may be an occasional tool but he not alone and makes some excellent points.  and how many of us believe that the wing nuts will lose party power by 2012?

    A Centrist Gets Fighting Mad

    by Mark McKinnon

    Fed up with extremists, Mark McKinnon  fires off a 12-point plan for a centrist comeback. From neutering czars to legalizing gay marriage, a full-throated defense of the radical middle.

    There's more than yellow stripes and dead armadillos in the middle of the road.*

    hes right.  there is a short little billionaire

    Parent

    oops (none / 0) (#114)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 10:59:16 AM EST
    With the exception of (none / 0) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:26:18 AM EST
    legalizing gay marriage (not a small thing), McKinnon would IMO lump anything left of center in the extremist column.

    Parent
    thats just not true (none / 0) (#119)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:27:34 AM EST
    he talks about immigration for one thing.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#120)
    by sj on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:39:47 AM EST
    I've become a voter who will never vote against my own self-interest and/or values.  I used to be a firm member of that "30+% who will pull a lever for a D ... no matter what."  I doubt that I'll ever pull the lever for an R, but the D's are no longer an automatic.  And don't forget that for me and other members of that 30+% an option is to forgo a visit to the polls on voting day.

    If that 30% support is getting squishy, a 3rd party candidate could make a serious showing.  The thing is, a self-funded 3rd party candidate has the same constiuency as the R's and the D's.

    Parent

    self funded 3rd party with (none / 0) (#124)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 12:25:01 PM EST
    some experience. this would be very different than a TP candidate.

    Parent
    But then, sj.... (none / 0) (#158)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 06:36:07 PM EST
    as you know, the Repugs win. Ah well...divide and conquer has a predictable path.

    Parent
    Not exactly (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by sj on Fri Oct 15, 2010 at 08:47:48 AM EST
    What I know is that, currently, no matter what -- I lose.

    Parent
    Anyone heard of this "Personhoodusa" ... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:10:01 AM EST
    ... and their Yes on 62" ("personhood") Amendment in Colorado?

    You would think this was a spoof, but ...

    I read about that (none / 0) (#85)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:28:38 AM EST
    IIRC it has been on the ballot before and failed. From what I read, it is not generating enough support this time around either.

    Parent
    Yes, it was. (none / 0) (#90)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 09:47:12 AM EST
    The lack of support is not a deterrent to these zealots.  Their plan is to keep putting it up for a vote time after time in the hope that it passes some day--unless we tighten up our lax requirements for getting initiatives on the ballot.  

    After all, the TABOR folks took the same approach and after being shot down a few times, they managed to get that passed--much too the determent of the people of Colorado.  


    Parent

    Consequences of the misuse (none / 0) (#116)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:24:59 AM EST
    of the bully pulpit (from the NYT interview that has been discussed elsewhere in this thread)

    Gov. Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania, though, is among the Democrats who grade Obama harshly for not being more nimble in the face of opposition. "B-plus, A-minus on substantive accomplishments," he told me, "and a D-plus or C-minus on communication." The health care legislation is "an incredible achievement" and the stimulus program was "absolutely, unqualifiedly, enormously successful," in Rendell's judgment, yet Obama allowed them to be tarnished by critics. "They lost the communications battle on both major initiatives, and they lost it early," said Rendell, an ardent Hillary Clinton backer who later became an Obama supporter. "We didn't use the president in either stimulus or health care until we had lost the spin battle."

    The WH too clearly views itself as having a "communications problem."

    So maybe it was a bad idea after all to just sit on our hands and hope for 11th dimensional chess?

    had to throw this in (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:26:39 AM EST
    "an ardent Hillary Clinton backer who later became an Obama supporter"

    as if that was the only reason anyone could criticize his majesty

    Parent

    interesting reading (none / 0) (#121)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 14, 2010 at 11:41:11 AM EST
    PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORITY TO DECLINE TO EXECUTE
    UNCONSTITUTIONAL STATUTES

            This memorandum discusses the President's constitutional authority to decline to execute unconstitutional statutes.

    November 2, 1994

    MEMORANDUM FOR THE HONORABLE ABNER J. MIKVA
    COUNSEL TO THE PRESIDENT