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Wednesday Early Evening Open Thread

Update: (Jeralyn) I just got back from court and a 9 hour hearing (no ruling yet, we're not done, but at least we don't go back for several weeks.) I'm pretty out of touch with the news, but will catch up tomorrow. Thanks to BTD for the open threads today and readers for hanging in. This past week may be longest I've gone without blogging in many years. I'm looking forward to returning.

< Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread | Voices >
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    Okay (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:23:18 PM EST
    I do like my fresh meat tender :)

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:25:13 PM EST
    I knew that from your comment the (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by observed on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:29:23 PM EST
    other night about treess (re Fountain).

    Parent
    If only John McCain were President (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by kidneystones on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:56:43 PM EST
    "progressives" would be screaming about two wars, toxic assets, Wall St in the WH and 16 million unemployed.

    A handful are now. Others contend that 16 million unemployed suggests Dems are doing a 'decent job'.

     

    Hey count me among the handful (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:59:15 PM EST
    I do believe there would be more unemployed were McCain president - there would not have been a stimulus package at all.

     I'm wondering how many troops will be coming out of Iraq in august.

    Parent

    In 2008 (none / 0) (#25)
    by kidneystones on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:21:16 PM EST
    I would have agreed that McCain would have been much worse on the economy. Now I'm not so sure. Troops out of Iraq? Promises, promises.

    My point: 16 million unemployed is an unacceptable outrage that seems perfectly acceptable to many Dems.

    That's as wrong as wrong can be.

    Parent

    As wrong as wrong (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 08:16:02 PM EST
    can be..

    Meaning what exactly? That there existed some readily available panacea that would've stemmed the bleeding that has been willfully and callously withheld by people to whom the current state of affairs is "perfectly acceptable"?

    If there are some untainted-by-original-sin, Republican magic bullets laying around untried in the last ten years, that'll immediately start getting things back on track, lets hear what they are.

    Dont be shy.

    Parent

    Dems were elected to provide solutions (none / 0) (#51)
    by kidneystones on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 08:39:56 AM EST
    the ones you seem to believe I should be pulling out of my keister. In the short-term McCain would have built nuclear plants.

    I would, too. About 3500 good jobs per plant. I would have funded new nuclear waste sites for any state that wanted a nuclear power station. I could go on, but why bother? Yves Smith does a far better job of explaining how Dems have screwed the pooch on unemployment.

    Hint, the phrase 'took his eye off the ball' appears more than once.

    Parent

    And the most important (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 09:20:03 AM EST
    thing would the stability. Simply put, a business does not expand, which means hire new employees, when the costs are unknown.

    And new taxes are an unknown. And fringe benefits, aka health insurance and/or fines are an unknown.

    And energy costs are unknown. Cap and trade is a huge threat of cost increases.

    Now, what is known? It is a given that Obama will let the Bush tax cuts expire. That will decrease consumer income and reduce sales.

    Parent

    Little impact (5.00 / 0) (#66)
    by waldenpond on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 12:08:52 PM EST
    The expiration of Bush's tax cuts will not have the effect you opine.  The the majority of the tax cuts were blatantly and specifically to benefit his stated constituency... the wealthy and their spending will not be affected in a way that allowing Obama's tax cuts for the middle class to end would.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#54)
    by kidneystones on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 09:27:46 AM EST
    I felt Cheney and Bush did a good job of talking down the economy. I think there are two positive factors at work right now. The US economy is 'bigger' than the government and there's no good reason all businesses will fail. Many will succeed and turn a profit.

    There's an economic price to promising everything to competing groups.

    Parent

    Are you saying that if (none / 0) (#65)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 12:08:25 PM EST
    "Medicare for All" were to pass and reduce that exceptionally expensive benefit employers are currently giving, that more employers would consider business expansion and lift their current hiring freezes?


    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#32)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:32:53 PM EST
    I didn't answer as well as I should have. I think all the other things you mentioned are equally outrageous. I just singled out the unemployment item because I think it is the only one that would have been even worse under McCain, for whatever that's worth. (I'm sure it is worth something to the people that are employed. ) But it should have been a lot better - with the stimulus bill people like Krugman recommended.

    Parent
    Nice try. (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:06:04 PM EST


    I remember when that (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 12:16:13 AM EST
    plane went down in that lake in '68 or whenever it was; I was listening to WABC out of NY, and they played Otis songs all night..

    "..And every song was by the late, great Johnny Ace"

    Otis backed by the M.Gs; does it get any better than that?

    Otis... (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 09:45:28 AM EST
    could be the greatest American male vocalist of all time...all time.

    His version of Respect, and Aretha's version in retort...oooh baby, talk about the listening public hittin' an exacta.

    Parent

    since I was cleaning my house last night (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 08:52:50 AM EST
    I was sadly around to catch most of MSNBCs prime lineup as it happened.  but it was a pretty entertaining evening.

    first was Bill Maher on Masa and other stuff.  the first part of this long segment is hilarious.
    then Maddow explains why Stupak is not a problem and then interviews Michael Moore who oddly enough is represented in congress by Mr Stupak.
    this is a great interview.

    Is that a hint? (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:15:08 PM EST
    That we all need to calm the hell down?

    Is the segue for this beautiful song (none / 0) (#2)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:17:13 PM EST
    the allegations against the NFL player in the bar?

    For the hearing impaired:  lyrics

    oh no, thats so bad (none / 0) (#6)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:39:10 PM EST
    maybe some good advice for him next time. That BTD, always trying to help!

    Parent
    Uh oh. (none / 0) (#13)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:57:43 PM EST
    ...Word on the street is that Tebow (22) scored lower on the Wonderlic test than Big Ben (25).

    Parent
    Is either of these people looking for (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:10:36 PM EST
    employment?

    Parent
    Yeah... (none / 0) (#20)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:12:56 PM EST
    ...pretty sure that's the whole point of the NFL combine.  Getting a job.  An NFL job.  Nice work if you can get it.

    Parent
    Are tiy telling me an aspiring NFL (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:18:25 PM EST
    draft choice has to take this test?

    Parent
    tiy am... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:20:17 PM EST
    ...telling you exactly that.  

    Parent
    Tebow sure is (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:16:21 PM EST
     Ben might be if he can't stay out of court.

    Parent
    Good One (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:41:23 PM EST
    Rock on, tenderly...

    Legal question: (none / 0) (#8)
    by observed on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:47:54 PM EST
    I was chatting this morning with a woman who used to teach in the South. A colleague had a 13 y.o. girl in her class who got pregnant. The parents took her to a state where she could legally marry, hitched to the man (21, I think), then moved the girl and hubby into the basement.

    What's the question? When report card time came, the girl wanted to know whether she  should show the report card to her parents, or to her husband.
    Opinions?

    Depends (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:55:59 PM EST
    If they are A-wesome and B-odacious... everyone.
    If they are D-elightful and F-abulous... no one.

    Parent
    Legally (5.00 / 0) (#40)
    by waldenpond on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 08:18:39 PM EST
    In CA.... once married, she is no longer considered a minor and would not need to show her report card to anyone.  I wonder who chose not to inform her of her new legal status when she married.

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#12)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:56:46 PM EST
    Does the husband become the legal guardian at the time of marriage to a minor?

    Parent
    That's a legal question? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:31:11 PM EST
    What state legally allows a 13 y.o. to marry?

    Why does it matter? My kids never felt the obligation to show me theirs...I had to remember to ask.

    Parent

    I"m sure there are several legal (none / 0) (#34)
    by observed on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:35:54 PM EST
    questions! The state is NC or SC.
    This story is from within the last 10 years,  probably less.


    Parent
    :) In Idaho, they'd both be in prison (none / 0) (#36)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:44:14 PM EST
    Montana may still allow child marriages, though.

    I'm just trying to figure out why the report cards fall under legal ruling.

    It's like a story problem :)

    Parent

    There was a lawyer at the table (none / 0) (#37)
    by observed on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:50:18 PM EST
    at this cafe. She told the story just show she could pose the question to him.
    The student really did ask that of the teacher, apparently.


    Parent
    I am not a lawyer. (none / 0) (#38)
    by itscookin on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:58:27 PM EST
    I'm a former high school teacher. Wouldn't permission to marry be accompanied by emancipation? My underage married students were allowed to sign their own permission slips, participate in designing their own ed plans, etc. The youngest I had was 15.

    Parent
    Wish I were with kdog (none / 0) (#9)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 06:54:59 PM EST
    At the John Hiatt concert. That would be a real cure-all about now.

    Please tell us all about it tomorrow kdog!

    It was dope kid... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 10:06:36 AM EST
    Hiatt made a new fan for sure!  You were right, I recognized a lot of the songs, "Perfectly Good Guitar", "Riding with The King" and others...and the stuff off his new record sounded great.

    He rocked out a lot harder than I expected...bass pulsing through your entire body, and the lead guitarist in his band was something else.  And his singing really impressed me..not a cookie-cutter "pretty" voice, but so much soul and what a yell!  They jammed for over 2 hrs...awesome.

    Some nimrod tried to ruin it for me, poked me on the shoulder a few times to say I was "standing right in front of him".  Ya believe that sh*t?The last poke I got a little heated and said "dude, everybody is standing in front of everybody, its a rock-n-roll show, ever been to one before?"  That shut his arse up, and got a laugh from my boys:)

    Unfortunately I don't see any FLA dates yet, but hopefully he will make his way south...or you get your arse up to Memphis ruff!

    Parent

    My friend got hassled... (none / 0) (#57)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 10:41:29 AM EST
    ...at the Winwood/Clapton show for having the nerve to stand up and dance along to the music.  I thought for sure I was going to end having to bail her arse out of Denver County.  She was sooooo PO'd.

    Glad you enjoyed the show despite the knucklehead!  

    Parent

    One day that piker... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 10:46:10 AM EST
    is gonna tap tap tap the wrong dude on the shoulder...he's lucky I'm a non-violent man cuz he was asking for it:)

    Luckily there are no seats at Irving Plaza...I've gotten asked to "sit down" like your friend at shows before, so annoying.  If you wanna sit on your arse, maybe rock-n-roll ain't for you, go to the opera with oculus:)


    Parent

    Ha. My friend and I were yelled at (none / 0) (#59)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 10:59:42 AM EST
    during the Tony Gwynn/Cal Ripken Hall of Fame induction ceremony because we were standing on the grass to the side of the stage.  Ripken fans seated behind us on the grass or on lawn chairs weren't happy we were standing to cheer for Tony.  Unbelievable.

    Parent
    Such fools... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 11:01:36 AM EST
    are not helping to dispel the fat lazy American stereotype...like its such a chore to use the legs mother nature gave ya.

    Parent
    Very cool (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 12:35:29 PM EST
    ha - yes, his voice cannot be described as 'pretty', but it sure does the job on those great songs.  I do remember that strong guitar and bass from the shows I've seen too. Glad to see he has not changed his style.  His shows always make me want to play my guitar more.  I'll check out the new music.

    Yeah, I can believe that sh*t. Don't know why people are hell bent on  wrecking the concert experience for others these days. My pet peeve is the people right behind me who talk all through the show.   Aaargh.  And not only the loud shows.

    Anyway glad you put him in his place and had a good time. I did check out the schedule...maybe I need a road trip to Virginia this summer. I'll keep checking back as they announce more dates.

    Parent

    We're analog cats... (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 01:22:45 PM EST
    in a digital age ruffian...the concert-texters are another bunch of freaks, but at least they ain't yappin' away:)

    And I wonder how the artists feel about the people recording the whole damn show on their phones...speaking for me the view of the stage is better than the view of the stage through a stupid camera phone, but what do I know.  

    Parent

    Yowza! Format that link! (none / 0) (#16)
    by observed on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:04:18 PM EST
    That was good news, I agree.


    Here's a hint... (none / 0) (#17)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:05:42 PM EST
    So you don't bust the margin.

    BracketDescriptive word(s)Copied linkBracket =

    Descriptive words(s)

    Thanks (none / 0) (#23)
    by cawaltz on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:19:42 PM EST
    I'm pretty hopeless with the hyperlinks. I did hit the link thing but it didn't seem to help.

    Sorry to make a mess BTD. If you have to remove the comment I'd completely understand.

    Parent

    Just make sure to preview before (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:21:38 PM EST
    posting when linking.  

    Parent
    I was too... (none / 0) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:22:13 PM EST
    ...until Squeaky laid it out real simple like for me.  I still don't like the link button.

    Parent
    Do you know what the problem is.. (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:40:19 PM EST
    When I am at work I am usually running Safari on a WinXP machine. Lately when I try to use the link button, the window comes up, but when I try to paste into it, nothing spits out. when I really want to link I switch over to Firefox and it works fine.

    Probably a safari-onWinXP issue, since it works fine on safari on my Mac at home.

    Parent

    Easiest Way (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 01:32:37 AM EST
    [textURL]

    no need for buttons.

    Parent

    I also can't link (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 06:55:37 AM EST
    If I've rated comments - I have to go and refresh and then it will let me link and comment.

    Parent
    Another link tip for Yahoo News links ... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ellie on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 06:59:51 AM EST
    If you don't like the linky button, just paste the copied link up to (but not including (the first semi-colon. Be sure to include the 'html' or 'htm' preceding the semi-colon.

    All that alphabet soup after that semi-colon is unique to your browser & computer's visit. Other news and media sites use similar protocols to identify visitors.

    You won't get your highlighted phrase but just copying and pasting will give you a jump-to link.

    (Button: highlight the wording in your post, click the chain icon over the text window and paste the link.)

    Parent

    Just a bit of classic Americanna (none / 0) (#29)
    by BTAL on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:22:25 PM EST
    for my friends here.

    Obama at the bat.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tcahn7PwQU


    For the click impaired. (none / 0) (#33)
    by BTAL on Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 07:33:56 PM EST
    Obama at the Bat (a poem)
    Michael Gabor
    Obama at the Bat*

    The Outlook wasn't brilliant for Leftyville that day:
    The health care plan was muddled, with but one press conference more to play.
    And then when the job approval numbers died, and personal popularity did the same,
    A sickly silence fell upon the progressives in the game.

    A straggling few got up to go in deep despair. The rest
    Clung to that hope which springs eternal in the human breast;
    They thought, if only Obama could get but a whack at that -
    We'd put up even money, now, with Obama at the bat.

    Then from 5,000 throats and more there rose a lusty yell;
    It rumbled through the valley, it rattled in the dell;
    It knocked upon the mountain and recoiled upon the flat,
    For Obama, mighty Obama, was advancing to the bat.

    There was ease in Obama's manner as he stepped into his place;
    There was pride in Obama's bearing and a smile on Obama's face.
    And when, responding to the cheers, he lightly doffed his hat,
    No s tranger in the crowd could doubt 'twas Obama at the bat.

    Ten thousand eyes were on him as he smeared his opponents with dirt;
    Five thousand tongues applauded when he rolled the sleeves up on his shirt.
    Then while a cringing reporter lobbed a question from his hip,
    Defiance gleamed in Obama's eye, a sneer curled Obama's lip.

    For when the stimulus bill came hurtling through the air,
    Obama stood a-watching it in haughty grandeur there.
    Right by the sturdy President the bill unheeded sped-
    "That's just my style," said Obama. "Strike one," the people said.

    With a smile of Christian charity great Obama's visage shone;
    He stilled the rising tumult; he bade the game go on;
    He signaled to the congress, and the cap and trade bill flew;
    And Obama heartily supported it, and the people said, "Strike two."

    "Soci alism" cried the maddened conservatives, and echo answered fraud;
    But one scornful look from Obama and the audience was awed.
    They saw his face grow stern and cold, they saw his muscles strain,
    And they knew that Obama might get his way again.

    The sneer is gone from Obama's lip, he rises to his station;
    About to deliver a stirring press conference to a waiting nation.
    And now the teleprompter is on, and now he unleashes his volley,
    And now the lofty illusions are shattered by the force of his own folly.

    Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
    The band is playing somewhere, and somewhere hearts are light,
    And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout;
    But there is no joy in Leftyville - mighty Obama has struck out.

    *With apologies to Ernest Lawrence Thayer



    Parent
    To know what this beautiful ballad (none / 0) (#43)
    by oldpro on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 01:52:16 AM EST
    is really about, I'd suggest listening to the Sinatra version which includes the introduction...

    Try A Little Tenderness by Frank Sinatra  Play song from Lala.com
    The Columbia Years (1943-1952 ...  

    Or even Buble or Aretha who rewspect both the lyrics and the music as written.

    Otis' version changes the meaning.  Not good in my book.  It's his interpretation but there's no way it's an improvement.

    Guess that's why they make chocolate, strawberry AND vanilla...not to mention the 28 other flavors.

    Ooooh yeah... (none / 0) (#44)
    by weltec2 on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 04:51:19 AM EST
    I just wanted to crawl into that vid and hug that sweet little... oh well.

    here's a whip count on the (none / 0) (#45)
    by observed on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 06:34:58 AM EST
    Senate bill Still not there

    191 yes, 195 no.

    Also in the link: Senate Republicans won't play ball on the Stupak change.


    Ha ha ha (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 06:48:00 AM EST
    Jane Hamsher is right.  That should make some posters around here real happy....NOT.

    Parent
    Why that side of the aisle hasn't been issued ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ellie on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 07:10:52 AM EST
    ... high chairs and mashed carrots to fling is beyond me.

    Compared to Republicans, my newest nephew to the planet should be wearing a frogged brocade smoking jacket and tossing bon mots between draws off a Punch Punch Claro.

    Parent

    Anndddd...... (none / 0) (#49)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 07:05:25 AM EST
    More possible "no" votes on HCR....

    A group of Hispanic lawmakers on Thursday will tell President Barack Obama that they may not vote for healthcare reform unless changes are made to the bill's immigration provisions.

    The scheduled meeting comes as Democratic leaders and the White House are struggling to craft a final bill that will attract 216 votes in the lower chamber.

    Unlike abortion, immigration has flown beneath the radar, and almost seemed to vanish altogether as House Democrats have wrestled with how to accept a Senate healthcare bill far different from the one they passed in November.

    But immigration remains just as explosive an issue and carries the same potential to derail the entire healthcare endgame, a number of Democrats said.

     "It's still one of those issues that's out there," said Rep. Xavier Becerra (Calif.), the Democratic Caucus vice chairman and the only Hispanic member of House leadership.

    Since last fall, Congressional Hispanic Caucus (CHC) members have kept quiet, at least publicly, about their objections to the immigration provisions in the Senate bill.

    The Senate language would prohibit illegal immigrants' buying healthcare coverage from the proposed health exchanges. The House-passed bill isn't as restrictive, but it does -- like the Senate bill -- bar illegal immigrants from receiving federal subsidies to buy health insurance.

    Hispanic Democrats say they haven't moved from their stance that they will not vote for a healthcare bill containing the Senate's prohibitions.

    Now, not every member of th CHC would vote no, and the prohibition doesn't really stand a chance of coming out of the Senate bill, but this could make an ugly process even uglier.

    Adieu... (none / 0) (#61)
    by desertswine on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 11:36:09 AM EST
    Yet more Massa news (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 11:36:24 AM EST
    "It's like he had people trapped"

    In hindsight, Democratic insiders wondered about activities that before had just seemed odd. They said Massa hired a surprisingly large percentage of young gay men, and paid them so little that staffers were forced to live in the house with him.

    "It's not the gay part that's a problem, it's the abuse, if it's true," said one Hill source.

    "The guy's a freak," a close friend of one embattled Massa aide told the Daily News.



    from what I have seen (none / 0) (#63)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 11:51:50 AM EST
    I think that unfair to freaks.

    Parent
    Fair point (none / 0) (#64)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 11:54:18 AM EST
    NOLA "Looter" Shooting (none / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Thu Mar 11, 2010 at 04:19:25 PM EST
    NEW ORLEANS - A second former New Orleans police officer pleaded guilty Thursday to covering up the deadly shooting of unarmed residents after Hurricane Katrina, with a judge calling the plot a "despicable" scheme that immeasurably compounded the storm's damage.

    Jeffrey Lehrmann, who left the police department in 2006 and is a special agent at the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement office in Phoenix, pleaded guilty to misprision of a felony, which means he had knowledge of a crime and didn't report it. Another former officer pleaded guilty last month to a conspiracy charge.

    [snip]

    Ronald Madison, 40 and mentally disabled, and James Brissette, 19, were killed and four others shot as they crossed the bridge in search of food. The officers claimed they opened fire only after being shot at. Lance Madison, who accompanied his brother, Ronald, testified less than a month later that a group of teenagers started shooting at them before they encountered police.

    link

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