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Tuesday Night Open Thread

I'm done with court for the day, but have to be back again at 8:00 am. I'm hoping to be done by tomorrow afternoon, but ultimately, that's not up to me. BTD is traveling to a court appearance he has somewhere tomorrow.

Since I haven't been online today, I have nothing to report. I'm heading out to dinner, so here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Awesome... (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:13:39 PM EST
    ...Booker T + DBT's + Neil Young = teh sh!t

    Classic stuff. Potato Hole

    DBT's and Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers on tour this Summer.  Please, please play Red Rocks!!!

    Hard for me to believe... (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 07:54:23 AM EST
    I've never seen Tom Petty live...better get on it this go round...ty for the heads up sir!  Was listening to some Traveling Wilburys just last night..."talkin' bout last night":)

    Good good sh*t.

    Parent

    TP's not... (none / 0) (#49)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 10:08:00 AM EST
    ...getting any younger, so better get out to see him while you can.  If they stop here, I might have to grow the hair out and see if he's still my doppleganger.  

    Maybe that would get me backstage so I could meet Shonna Tucker of the DBT's--that would be way cool.  More likely I'll have to settle for watching her lay down the beat from afar.  

    Either way, two bands that I can sing along to all the songs!

    Parent

    Come on home to the Midwest (none / 0) (#50)
    by Cream City on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 10:33:50 AM EST
    as Petty just added a second show at Summerfest, the 11-day singalong aka musical extravaganza with many stages and many great bands (and lots else to do) on the lovely lakefront of Lake Michigan.

    He gives a great show, and Summerfesters know it, so no surprise that one show was necessary but not sufficient. :-)

    Parent

    Primary Election Night in Texas (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by D Jessup on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 08:57:14 PM EST
    Went to my Precinct Convention, no one showed up. So I made myself chair and passed several resolutions: Legalization of all recreational drugs, banned the death penalty, legalized gay marriage and banned pickups unless you wear boots and a cowboy hat.

    Don't know what happened to the Obamabots that hijacked the last convention.  Probably didn't get their marching orders from the One.  

    Heh (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:34:05 PM EST
    Texas two-step?

    That's the way to do it.

    Parent

    Getting dates beginning to come (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:50:08 PM EST
    in when husband person should be home, about 30 odd days out.  Wow is he burnt out.  Am I too terrible if I'm a tiny bit glad?  He's a terrible workaholic and he FINALLY wants to come home and be mindless and play with kids for awhile.  He said that he has worked more in the past six months than any years work in Iraq.

    My first reaction: great news. Then, (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 08:42:16 AM EST
    on further reflection, sound like this six months has been really difficult from all angles.

    Parent
    He's tired and he's ready for it (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 02:38:18 PM EST
    to be someone else's job for awhile :)  I've never heard him say that before.  But they all laid the ground work for Marja and how to bring Marja to a success if one is possible.  I saw that the new TIME has a big Marja write up in it today, but I only got to read the first couple of paragraphs because it was at the dentist with Joshua and I was needed and being summoned.

    Parent
    Not at all terrible. (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:02:14 PM EST
    I hope you all get some well deserved R & R real soon, MT!

    Good friend and client called me in tears (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by nycstray on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:21:40 PM EST
    now it's the week before market and things are usually crazy, and she's care taking her Dad from bladder cancer surgery. So I thought the tears and inability to speak clearly had to do with a combo of both. First thing that became clear. . . . her Dad listening to Fox News at a loud volume during all waking hours, lol!~ And she's a mod Repub! I ended up asking her if I should start conditioning myself before I get to CA as my Dad does the same. She warned me against it very strongly, lol!~

    Oy.

    Something in the water (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 11:35:43 PM EST
    down there.

    Funny because when I've been down there a few times, the Texans I ran into were just nice as could be, and you'd think they were all raving, slobbering maniacs from the way they vote.

    If we judged the citizens... (none / 0) (#33)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 07:58:45 AM EST
    of any state by their elected officials, the whole country would be considered stark raving mad.

    But I hear ya, Texas especially.

    We must always remember the wise words of Kurt Vonnegut...only psychopathic personalities (pp's for short)want these jobs.

    Parent

    Um, not here (none / 0) (#52)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 11:38:09 AM EST
    but maybe VT is unique.  Our elected officials pretty directly reflect who we are, and although some of them are better or worse than others, none of them are stark, raving mad, thank goodness.

    Parent
    I think Vermont is unique.... (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:10:57 PM EST
    look at my state, NY.  Polar opposite to Texas in many ways...and a state government filled with maniacs.

    Parent
    Sense Prevails in the Senate (none / 0) (#1)
    by shoephone on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 06:51:07 PM EST
    Bunning finally caved, under withering criticism from those in his own party.

    A law that provided stopgap road funding and longer and more generous unemployment benefits and health insurance subsidies for the jobless expired Monday. Without the extension, about 200,000 jobless people would have lost federal benefits this week alone, according to the liberal-leaning National Employment Law Project.

    The measure to be voted on tonight would extend through the end of the month several programs that expired on Monday, including the jobless aid, federal highway funding and help for doctors facing cuts in Medicare payments.

    It would provide a monthlong extension of the programs to give Congress time to pass a yearlong fix that's also pending.

    Earlier on Tuesday, Bunning objected to a request by Maine Sen. Susan Collins, a fellow Republican, to pass a 30-day extension of jobless benefits and other expired measures.

    When asked Tuesday if Bunning was hurting the Republican Party, Collins said, "He's hurting the American people."



    Too bad (none / 0) (#6)
    by MKS on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:21:31 PM EST
    The spectacle of him ranting and raving at 3:00 a.m. would have been very interesting....And Reid by making Bunning stay up all night could have sent a message to the other Republicans....

    Parent
    Just tuned in (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:33:46 PM EST
    He could barely get the words out when he moved to waive the budget point of order that Boxer raised against his amendment.

    He's a doddering old fool, and he may have just saved the Dems from themselves.

    Parent

    And Blanche Lincoln votes with Bunning (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:53:34 PM EST
    How to lose an election in three easy votes. . .

    Parent
    Huh? I missed that (none / 0) (#11)
    by MKS on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:57:39 PM EST
    She is gone anyway....She should do the right thing between now and then....

    Parent
    Seriously??? (none / 0) (#14)
    by shoephone on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:28:38 PM EST
    The woman is completely meshuga.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:33:23 PM EST
    I think this means she is considering (none / 0) (#37)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 08:52:38 AM EST
    not running.   its a big f**k you.


    Parent
    Maddow did some interesting (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:00:00 AM EST
    reporting about that last night.
    I didnt know his local newspaper had wondered openly if he was becoming mentally impaired.

    she also had a great segment on the republican senators who are lying (and actually used the word) about health care reform.


    Parent

    Bunning has caved (none / 0) (#2)
    by kmblue on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 06:51:40 PM EST
    sorry (none / 0) (#3)
    by kmblue on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 06:52:17 PM EST
    forgot link rule

    Anyone see all of Ghostwriter? (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:22:48 PM EST
    I dozed off and am trying to decide whether to buy another ticket.

    If you slept long enough (none / 0) (#15)
    by shoephone on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:30:58 PM EST
    to miss important turns of plot, then maybe you'll want to go again. Otherwise, the nap may be more a sign of the film's staying power than your own.

    Parent
    Can anyone suggest (none / 0) (#9)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 07:44:46 PM EST
    a really good audio book for a once-avid reader with elite taste in lit?  -- No classics, please.  Must be something contemporary.  

    Jeremy Irons reading (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 08:33:46 PM EST
    Nabokov's "Lolita." Mesmerizing

    Parent
    Nice lead (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by ZtoA on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 09:39:00 PM EST
    I'm reading "Reading Lolita in Tehran" and it is fascinating.

    Parent
    I'm told to read this book time and (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:08:08 PM EST
    again and also the Red Tent.  I keep putting them off for some reason though.  I think I'm at a life stage when I want to fight for the issues that are important to me more than I want to deeply understand my womanhood.  I gobbled up such books though in my twenties.  I think I was only absorbing info though to be able to be a better educated fighter :)  It brought me a sort of peace as well to understand more fully the unfairness and inequality.  My heart doesn't want peace on the subject right now, it wants to fight the fight right now.

    Parent
    MT, Well, I'm not finished with the book but... (none / 0) (#27)
    by ZtoA on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:27:06 PM EST
    It does not fit my preconceived views....so far. It starts off with a group of young women coming to a private literature class and throwing off their burkas with brilliant colorful clothes and characters underneath. I related to that - we all have some outer oppressive dull outfit (cloth or deeper) that if thrown off, even for an instant, reveals a human spirit that includes color and life.

    I get your not wanting to have your eyes closed right now...! Sounds like your heart is already open so that makes a good combo.

    I started Lolita in Tehran after reading Michael Datcher's "Raising Fences", which, admittedly is from a younger pov.

    Parent

    Jeremy Irons (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by ZtoA on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:13:06 PM EST
    was great in "Reversal of Fortune". That movie opens up after multiple viewings. I think its because of his masterfully subtle and -rather- underplayed portrayal of his psychological/archetypal character. I knew a man like that - only he was poor and jobless, yet his relationship to women was very similar, so the portrayal was truly archetypal and not just a product of class and wealth.

    Irons should be fantastic reading "Lolita" - which should be a classic for every age. Young women, cut off from their support systems, 'accessed' sexually, blamed for the wish to 'access'. Great book to read in Tehran or anywhere for that matter.

    Parent

    Youtube actually (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:20:30 PM EST
    had my favorite Jeremy Irons movie quote from that movie.

    Parent
    Jeremy Irons and Glenn Close (none / 0) (#28)
    by sher on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 11:16:04 PM EST
    in Tom Stoppard's The Real Thing was one of my best theatre experiences; I think Irons would be wonderful reading anything!

    Parent
    also good in the (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 08:56:19 AM EST
    some what butchered version of "Twins" that was named "Dead Ringers".
    a Cronenberg movie.


    Parent
    "Damage" and (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:08:36 AM EST
    "Brideshead Revisited."

    Parent
    Sounds fabulous (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:00:59 PM EST
    just to think about

    Parent
    Audio books are very (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 03:16:49 PM EST
    underrated.

    Two of my personal favs: Martin Balsam reading Tropic of Cancer..and for the (surreal) kiddie in all of us, Carl Sandburg reading his own Rutabaga Tales.

    Parent

    What's the proper English term for 'Blecccch'? (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ellie on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 10:02:01 PM EST
    I just had to hit that jump:

    Hotheaded Emanuel may be White House voice of reason By Jason Horowitz, WaPo, March 2, 2010

    Rahm Emanuel is officially a Washington caricature. He's the town's resident leviathan, a bullying, bruising White House chief of staff who is a prime target for the failings of the Obama administration.

    But a contrarian narrative is emerging: Emanuel is a force of political reason within the White House and could have helped the administration avoid its current bind if the president had heeded his advice on some of the most sensitive subjects of the year: health-care reform, jobs and trying alleged terrorists in civilian courts. [...]

    Emanuel's allies say there is no such thing as Rahm at rest. According to almost everyone who has ever worked with him, he has an insatiable need to be in the mix, and he is deeply concerned with the news of the day. His office is the White House nerve center. "In order to get a final decision, everything needs to go through Rahm's office," said a former administration official who thinks Emanuel should delegate more.

    Every morning, Emanuel leads a 7:30 meeting with about 10 senior administration aides, pushing through the president's priorities, all listed on index cards embossed with the title "Chief of Staff." Throughout the day, one senior administration official said, Emanuel might call six times to determine whether he can cross off an item. If not, it is on the list the next day.

    The official said Emanuel surveys colleagues' opinions "more than people think." Emanuel's initial reaction to criticism is likely to be slamming down the phone. But usually, he calls back after a few minutes, the official said, and says, " 'Okay, let's talk.' "

    His weighing in on a mind-boggling swath of governmental and political activity adds to his outsize image as chief of staff of everything. As a result, he can be blamed for almost everything, especially as health-care legislation became stuck, the president's approval ratings dipped and widespread angst about the economy fueled a GOP resurgence.  [... bleccch ...]



    Well, well, well (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Mar 02, 2010 at 11:39:26 PM EST
    Oddly, the identical narrative, including some of the same phrases, that was so successfully peddled to the Milbank creature.

    I wonder whether -- I hope -- that means he thinks he's in trouble in the White House.

    Parent

    Get the antidote, (none / 0) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:08:07 AM EST
    Dan Froomkin's (long) article in Huffington Post responding to Rahm's Valentine to himself that was forwarded to Milbank and Horowitz.  Froomkin calls Rahm "Chief of Sabotage", but clearly notes that there is really little light between Rahm and his boss.  Essentially, Rahm is a "Bush Democrat", which, of course, with Bush in the name is not intended to be flattering (and soon Democrat will not be either).  The upshot of that comment is that they fear what the Republicans might say or do so they just cower. Recommended reading.

    Parent
    Thanks for the tip (none / 0) (#51)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 11:35:39 AM EST
    Going right over there now...

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 07:37:29 AM EST
    Cohabitating doesn't make a marriage last

    Now, my mother always told me this, but I never believed her.  And of course, this isn't the first study I've seen that had the same conclusion, but it's interesting in 2010 that the results are pretty similar.

    Couples who live together before they get married are less likely to stay married, a new study has found. But their chances improve if they were already engaged when they began living together.

    The likelihood that a marriage would last for a decade or more decreased by six percentage points if the couple had cohabited first, the study found.

    The study of men and women ages 15 to 44 was done by the National Center for Health Statistics using data from the National Survey of Family Growth conducted in 2002. The authors define cohabitation as people who live with a sexual partner of the opposite sex.

    "From the perspective of many young adults, marrying without living together first seems quite foolish," said Prof. Pamela J. Smock, a research professor at the Population Studies Center at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. "Just because some academic studies have shown that living together may increase the chance of divorce somewhat, young adults themselves don't believe that."

    The authors found that the proportion of women in their late 30s who had ever cohabited had doubled in 15 years, to 61 percent.

    Half of couples who cohabit marry within three years, the study found. If both partners are college graduates, the chances improve that they will marry and that their marriage will last at least 10 years.

    "The figures suggest to me that cohabitation is still a pathway to marriage for many college graduates, while it may be an end in itself for many less educated women," said Kelly A. Musick, a professor of policy analysis and management at Cornell.



    Using 10 years as a bench mark? (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 08:07:11 AM EST
    What a low expectation.

    Parent
    Here is yesterday's NPR (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 08:50:19 AM EST
    "All Things Considered" on this study.  Decidedly different view.  NPR

    I found these portions particularly interesting:

    "You don't see many long-term cohabitating relationships that just last and last, because people want that ring and that honeymoon and that party to show themselves that they've achieved what, in America, is a first-class personal life," Cherlin says.
     [Emphasis added.]

    And:

    "Those women who, when they were 14 years old lived with both of their parents, were much more likely to have their first marriages last at least 10 years than those who were not living with both of their parents," Chandra says.

    On the other hand, for men, Chandra says, there was no relationship between growing up in an intact family and whether the men remained married themselves.



    Parent
    From that same link (none / 0) (#41)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:00:18 AM EST
    As for whether the marriage will last 10 years, federal researchers say that for the most part, the answer is yes -- two-thirds of marriages do last 10 years. The factors that determine whether a marriage lasts have stayed the same over the past decade. You're more likely to hit the 10-year mark if you marry someone much like you: similar in race, background and education; if you're over 26; if you are college educated, with at least a bachelor's degree; and if you have a child during the marriage.

    Really interesting (and sad), since 50% of marriages still end in dovorce, that means there are a great many that end after 10+ years.

    And what I found really interesting is that the more education you have, the greater chance you'll marry and stay married, and those with lesser educations won't.  Women with higher educations, who theoretically could take better care of themselves outside a marital relationship, get married and stay married longer than women who may theoretically "need" a man around more.

    Parent

    Yeah, I Heard That Today (none / 0) (#42)
    by daring grace on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:01:19 AM EST
    the phrase "first class personal life" stuck in my mind...

    Parent
    "First class personal life..." (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:20:48 AM EST
    Not exactly how my married buddies put it, at least when their wives aren't around...they say that's what a bachelor has got:)

    Parent
    I always wondered about that (none / 0) (#47)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:22:32 AM EST
    The men who seem to always complain about married life.  Now, I know most of it is macho-bonding whining crap, but how many of these guys had a gun to their head to ask the woman and actually go through with the ceremony?

    Parent
    A few had the proverbial gun to the head (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:29:30 AM EST
    aka got their girlfriends pregnant, and did the old-school "right thing".  

    But I think its more a grass is always greener thing...they envy my freedom to do what I want when I want without checking with anybody...and I kinda envy the companionship and life partnership of their marriages, and the joys they get from their kids.

    That being said, I wouldn't trade places...and despite their "male bonding whining crap", I don't think they'd trade with me either.

    Parent

    "macho-bonding whining crap" (none / 0) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:01:51 PM EST
    I hope that was in jest...

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#54)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:15:28 PM EST
    But really - every married man I know whines to to other men about "the old ball and chain" and "being tied down" and how they want to be single - when they really don't.  Of course, they don't say this stuff when a group of women are around, so I can only conclude it is a male-bonding ritual.

    Parent
    Are you male or female? (none / 0) (#55)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:19:53 PM EST
    Female (none / 0) (#56)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:22:30 PM EST
    But I've worked with a lot of guys who I think start to think of me as one of the guys,so their talk becomes a bit "freer".  Now, I know these guys are kidding, but it's amazing how many of them do it - like it's expected.

    And yes, women complain about their husbands, but it seems more prevalent among guys.

    Parent

    Fair enough. (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:41:11 PM EST
    Marriage is tough. Marriage with kids is even tougher. Everyone needs to vent sometimes. Women and men really are different, and those differences can be very frustrating. It probably is bonding, but it's really not "macho whining crap." :-)

    Parent
    hmm (none / 0) (#57)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:32:52 PM EST
    "but it seems more prevalent among guys"

    you don't know the same people I do.  The girls I know (myself included) do more b*tching about boys than any boys I know do about their lady friends - and I'm like you where I often find myself as the forgotten female.

    Then again, none of us are married yet, but the ball and chain talk is still there - mostly from the female side strangely enough.  I think it mostly stems from worries about being tied down to someone who's pretty worthless from the "helpfull around the house" standpoint.  Shockingly, most 25-26 year old "boys" fall into that category.

    Maybe the dynamic changes once you actually tie the knot.

    Parent

    Ha! Change after marriage?! (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:44:16 PM EST
    Trust me on this one, if something bugs you about your guy now, it'll drive you insane after being married...

    Parent
    haha yea (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:11:34 PM EST
    I meant more the balance of complaining would change, not the actual relationship.

    Trust me, I have seen the wisdom of this.  A whole lot of us are in the "$hit or get off the pot stage".  I chose to get off the pot, so mine is a more general and empathetic whining these days than anything specific.

    Oh and the laundry list ABSOLUTELY includes domestic chores.  In fact, I'd say that's the gist of it.  At least in terms of tangible, listable things.

    Parent

    I heard Coki Roberts and her adult (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 12:46:32 PM EST
    daughter discuss relationships.  Daughters sd. her generation of women has a check list and won't consider anyone who doesn't add up.  Including in the sharing domestic responsibilities department.

    Parent
    I'd actually advise (none / 0) (#62)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:10:34 PM EST
    going in the completely opposite direction.

    I think if you go into a marriage with a checklist and are expecting to "win" or even to achieve (what in your book seems to be) parity, I think you'll be sorely disappointed.

    I think if more people went into marriage with the same mindset that parents have toward their kids, ie, "my job is to do what is necessary to support these people I love and who need me" and not with thoughts of "I will NOT get the short end of the stick" I think marriage would be a much stronger institution.

    It's not a competition, or at least I think it shouldn't be...

    Parent

    perhaps (none / 0) (#65)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:13:28 PM EST
    checklist is the wrong word.

    But you need to have at least some sense of shared responsibility for these things.

    Parent

    The speaker meant qualities, (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:30:27 PM EST
    not specific tasks.

    Parent
    can be the same thing (none / 0) (#68)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:49:02 PM EST
    for example "can/willing to cook"

    Is that a quality or a task?  Probably a little of both.

    Parent

    How about observing potential (none / 0) (#69)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 02:09:29 PM EST
    marriage partner in action or inaction.

    Parent
    are we still talking about (none / 0) (#71)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 02:42:55 PM EST
    cooking?

    Parent
    I never was talking about cooking. (none / 0) (#72)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 02:57:01 PM EST
    Although that would be a feature to observe, along with willingness to participate in child care, clean toilets, grocery shop, etc.

    Parent
    I assume... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 03:00:22 PM EST
    that means shared responsibility for mowing the lawn, unclogging the toilet, changing the oil in the whip, etc:)

    Parent
    I have always been (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 03:25:27 PM EST
    a proponent of knowing what you are getting into.  I know there are studies about living together vs. not, but I would say you should at least have dated for a significant period and know the "ticks" of your partner before marriage.  Then again, I have seen it work or not work both ways - that's just how I would be more comfortable.

    And yes, it means shared responsibility for those other tasks as well.  Although they happen a lot less frequently than some other ones.  Having lived in a few all-female settings, I am often the "handy" one, so I do do all of those things.  But they don't bother me nearly as much as the menial, daily tasks like cleaning and cooking.  Especially with cleaning, there seems to be different levels of tolerance, and obviously you have to respect those differences, whether you are on the messy or clean side, but you also have to know if you can live with those differences.

    With cooking - everyone has to eat - so I find it easier to convince someone who doesn't want to cook - to cook, than to convince someone who doesn't want to clean - to clean.  The "I'm not doing it today" response doesn't work as well with the cleaning bit, you just end up living in filth.

    Parent

    If you view the tasks you do as "menial" (none / 0) (#76)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 03:31:58 PM EST
    and those your SO does as "not menial" you will have a tough time...

    Parent
    It's not about who does it (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 03:49:47 PM EST
    I do all those other tasks - I am the plunger queen and I can mow the lawn like nobody's business, not to mention take out the trash, change lightbulbs, snake a tub, etc... and I expect my SO to do the menial ones as well - they don't become less menial just because someone else does it.

    It's about the fact that some of them happen once a month, or only take 10 min, and some of them happen every day for a significant period of time.

    And yea, I realize I'm on a bit of a rant here.  Needless to say, this was THE issue for me.  I will not be someone's maid/housewife, no matter how much their mom wants me to be...  If you can't take care of yourself, how can you expect to take care of someone else?

    Parent

    I've told you what I've learned, the hard way, over the past couple decades. I hope it all works out for you.

    Parent
    thanks (none / 0) (#80)
    by CST on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 04:50:02 PM EST
    I appreciate the comments, and I know I'm no piece of cake either.

    I know it's hard, and I just had to learn the hard way that I do have a tolerance threshold for some of this stuff.  And to look for a picky neat freak next time :)

    Parent

    You just need to find (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 04:12:30 PM EST
    The answer is to find a fussy eater who is a neat freak! I do the cooking because I'm too fussy to expect anyone else to deal with it. I clean because I can't stand to be in a room that's messy. I accept that most of the world isn't me , so I deal with it.

    Parent
    I accept that most of the world isn't me (none / 0) (#81)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 04:53:24 PM EST
    I accept that most of the world isn't me , so I deal with it.
    I've never rated a comment but this deserves a 10.

    Parent
    That is a beauty allright... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 05:01:11 PM EST
    well said mmc, that should be a bumper sticker.

    Parent
    I'm with ya... (none / 0) (#82)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 04:59:59 PM EST
    cohabitating is the way to really learn what someone is all about.  I cohabitated only once with a significant other and that's how we figured out we made each other miserable.

    I'm thinking those less likely to live together before marriage are the traditional religous types who would be less likely to divorce in the first place.

    Parent

    Well, from what I've seen, (none / 0) (#67)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:30:37 PM EST
    divorces generally happen when one or both partners feel that they're getting too much of the short end of the stick.

    Thus the less focus there is on (perceived or actual) winning and losing, and the more focus there is on being part of a team (you know, the old-fashioned "there's no 'I' in team" idea) who's goal it is to build a solid, lasting marriage, the less divorce there would be.

    I think if the marriage is bigger than self then it'll have a good chance at lasting. If self is more important, I think the marriage will have a much tougher row to hoe...

    Parent

    Jeralyn: Glenn Greenwald today (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 08:59:51 AM EST
    on lawyers (both civilian and military) who defend Guantanamo detainees.  His post is in reaction to Liz Cheney/Kristol ad re DOJ lawyers who have done such work in the past. Greenwald

    that ad (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 09:15:50 AM EST
    is unbelievable

    Parent
    It's despicable. (none / 0) (#61)
    by desertswine on Wed Mar 03, 2010 at 01:03:39 PM EST