Sunday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 07:57:00 PM EST
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Football is postponing Big Brother tonight, but there's also a new episode of Food Network Star with Rachel Ray followed by a new show about grocery trucks. (Really.)

Jurors in the trial of Rod and Robert Blagojevich resume deliberating tomorrow. I haven't read anything that changes my speculation here that the jury rejected the two RICO counts against Rod, is split on the bribery and extortion charges against both Rod and Robert, and split on the false statement charge as to Rod.

The only thing I can think of to add is that the jurors' division on bribery/extortion for Rod (if indeed they are and remain divided) bodes well for Robert. [More...]

Unless they determine Rod committed, attempted to commit or conspired to commit extortion or bribery, how can they even get to whether Robert aided and abetted, attempted or conspired to commit either offense?

If they don't find Rod committed a crime, Robert can't have aided and abetted it. If they don't agree there was a conspiracy, Robert couldn't have been a co-conspirator. If Rod didn't have the intent to commit bribery or extortion, he didn't attempt it, and if he didn't attempt it, how did Robert?

Of course, there's no telling what they'll do on the wire fraud counts or if any changed their minds over the weekend.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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Sunday Night Open Thread | 61 comments (61 topical)

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On the 'controversy' over the Mosque (5.00 / 2) (#2)
by Edger on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 09:15:56 PM EST

Tom Engelhardt in his intro to a Stephan Salisbury article at TomDispatch the other day pointed out an interesting little fact:

There's no countering hysterias like this with reason or logic. It doesn't matter, for instance, that (as Justin Elliott pointed out recently in Salon.com) no "mosque" controversy ever developed around Pentagon prayer practices. And yet Ramadan is celebrated in that building. As the Washington Times reported in 2007, a Navy imam called to prayer 100 Department of Defense employees. "Uniformed military personnel, civilians, and family members," the Times' reporter wrote, "faced Mecca and knelt on adorned prayer rugs chanting their prayers in quiet invocation to Allah." All this happened, and continues to happen, not two blocks from Ground Zero, but, as Elliott writes, "inside the building where 184 people died on Sept. 11, 2001." It seems, however, that right-wing reverence for the U.S. military still exceeds right-wing mania about Muslims, and so "our infiltrated military" stories have yet to develop.

-- Tomgram: Stephan Salisbury, Extremism at Ground Zero (Again)

the 'can't counter it with reason or fact' (none / 0) (#31)
by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:59:48 AM EST

part is what is so infuriating to me. All these bigots have to do is make enough noise to drown out everything else, and all other issues get held hostage until the media decides to change the subject.


That argument doesn't make sense. (none / 0) (#32)
by tigercourse on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:35:56 AM EST

The Pentagon prayer area is a place of Muslims to pray. Muslism pray alot. They need it. I'm sure it pre dated 9/11.

The Ground Zero Mosque does not pre date 9/11 and Muslims don't NEED to go there to worship. There is another Mosque nearby.


And those seats at the back of the bus (5.00 / 1) (#36)
by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:45:38 AM EST

or the extra car on the train are just as good for the dark-skinned people [formerly] compelled by law to ride there.

That, and your comment, are logically identical and indistinguishable.

I shouldn't have to mention (but do) that there is a thing called the RLUIPA (Religious Land Use and Institutionalized Persons Act), beloved of the Religious Right, which pretty much gives every religion the trump card in any land use dispute with a local government. Not that this particular center needed it, having been approved by the local zoning board by a vote of 29-1.

But, hey, logic and proportion have little meaning when we can beat on brown people, right?


Your analogy does not apply. I'm not (none / 0) (#53)
by tigercourse on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:16:08 PM EST

asking Muslims to sit in the back of the bus. I'm asking one group of Muslims to show a little freaking sensitivity and move over a couple of blocks.

Again, yes they have the right to build there. People can apparently put churches wherever the hell they feel like it in this country. It doesn't mean that it's the right, just, moral, or "nice" thing to do.


: Black people had a perfect right (none / 0) (#54)
by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:47:18 PM EST

to ride the buses.
They were just "asked" (with the force of the law and the Klan to back the request) to kindly move to the back of the bus or to the special rail car specifically provided for them.
To protect the sensitivities of the white race and prevent conflict.
Or, as some argued at the time of Plessy being decided, on the economic grounds that more, better paying customers wanted it and merchants and carriers were only responding to consumer demand.

The intellectual roots of Plessy v. Ferguson were in part tied to the scientific racism of the era. However, the popular support for the decision was more likely a result of the racist beliefs held by most whites at the time.[3] Private businesses often argued one of two points. Either they pointed to the so called 80:20 rule (80 per cent of the population was white and therefore catered for accordingly), or pointed to the fact that many businesses were owned and operated for whites by whites as they had the 'money' (ability to pay). The circumstances and conditions present at the time supported 'ideas' for segregation based on the color of the skin as that also accompanied economic and market 'positioning'.
Similar excuses - protecting sensitivities - were invoked to ghettoize Jews, too.

It is not on ground zero (none / 0) (#39)
by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:56:33 AM EST

For me the discussion ends there. There is a whole other discussion about what should be built on the former WTC site. I do not recall seeing a mosque or church in the proposed plans.


It was damaged in the attacks. (none / 0) (#52)
by tigercourse on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:12:42 PM EST

Reportedly part of Flight 175's (none / 0) (#58)
by byteb on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:43:09 PM EST

fuselage and landing gear crashed through the roof and upper floors of the building that was on the site...it was a Burlington Coat Factory at the time...less than 600 feet from Ground Zero.

I know the site is from Wiki but it seems well researched enough.

There are political opportunists who are using this issue for the most disgusting of reasons but there are those who are genuinely upset about the proposed community center/mosque. Perhaps, their viewpoint might be viewed as borne of emotion and therefore, irrational but I think their pain is genuine.


: link that disappeared! (none / 0) (#59)
by byteb on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:45:43 PM EST

http://tiny.cc/c8cbk

It's not at Ground Zero and it 's not a mosque -- (none / 0) (#46)
by jawbone on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:11:08 AM EST

It's a cultural community center with what many would call a chapel for services and meditation.

Now a thought experiment:

Since so many Catholic priests have been sexual predators against children, and the human body is known as the temple of the Lord, would it not be just and right, given how so many people think, to prevent Catholic churches and schools from being near any...children? What is more sacred that the innocence of children? How can we permit this world-wide organization for the practice of pederasty and who knows what other abominations to place its centers of sin near children???

And what's with all these sex shops near Ground Zero? Gotta keep them away from sacred ground, right?

And, what about possible dust from the humans burned in the attack and its aftermath?? Shouldn't any place where any of that dust fell be considered sacred ground? Indeed, shouldn't buildings and streets be torn down in the general wind pattern area from the increasingly sacred Ground Zero? Sacred is sacred and the profane must not impinge on our sacred areas. Right? </snark>

Sheesh. What way to dishonor the memories of all those killed that day.

What is that saying about we become what we hate??


Don't miss Jon Stewart's take (and takedown) on (none / 0) (#48)
by jawbone on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:14:32 AM EST

the non-mosque, non-Ground Zero, non-issue which the Repubs are ginning up.

My favorite bit: The cheesehead joke pic.

BTW, any prediction what Repubs will say when there's actual violence against innocent Muslims and their places of worship and community gathering??? That's what they're building anger up to...it's hard to contain a fire once it's lit and the winds of hate are blowing.


I think they are making (none / 0) (#49)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:21:22 AM EST

a huge Terry Schaivo sized mistake with this.


Tomorrow's Headline (none / 0) (#50)
by Edger on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:41:50 AM EST

"Republicans shoot selves in both feet again over Mosque. In public."


: and oddly (none / 0) (#51)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:43:20 AM EST

like the Schaivo case, smart republicans know its lunacy.

Regarding the next Food Network Star (none / 0) (#1)
by andgarden on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 09:13:33 PM EST

I said to myself something like a month ago that if the brass didn't pick the person they did pick tonight (no spoilers), they were smoking crack.

This person is going to have a really awesome show and fill a niche,

I've been in the garden all day (none / 0) (#3)
by nycstray on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 09:28:20 PM EST

and can't even remember who's still in it :) I want to see the food truck wars, lol!~ My pizza dough is rising, so I should have pizza about the time the shows air a bit later here.


I've been saying for a while now (none / 0) (#14)
by Anne on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:19:06 AM EST

that I thought it was the eventual winner's to lose - consistently great food, a way to bring a different flavor to the table, and a great personality.

Have you been watching Top Chef? It seems like a letdown to me after last season - this crop of cheftestants don't seem to be at near the same high level. Even Restaurant Wars was kind of flat for me - but I'm still watching, so I guess that's all Bravo cares about!

I think it would be fun to see the former winners (and runners-up, I guess, to make it a bigger group) of Top Chef compete, a la Top Chef Masters; I think that's where we'd see the variations in quality from season to season.

Am looking forward to Gail Simmons and "Just Desserts," too.


: TC is interesting (none / 0) (#15)
by andgarden on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:41:44 AM EST

but I don't really feel invested in any of the players this season. I rarely do, though.

: I think part of it (none / 0) (#16)
by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:00:05 AM EST

is just that last season was the best season so far, and they haven't had that in any of the other seasons. That doesn't mean it's not still good though.
Last season was cool because of the top 4 - you could see any of them take it, but I for one was very happy about who eventually won.
This season there is a clear favorite with only one or two who really consistently compete with him.

'Craigslist Killer' Philip Markoff Commits Suicide (none / 0) (#4)
by ding7777 on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 09:56:45 PM EST

Mad Men was really good this week (none / 0) (#5)
by andgarden on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 10:18:44 PM EST

Anyone watching Rubicon? (none / 0) (#6)
by byteb on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 10:27:15 PM EST

It comes on before Mad Men and I'm hooked.

Weeds starts tomorrow night (none / 0) (#7)
by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 10:28:36 PM EST

I just put up a post with previews (not spoilers) at Popleft. Looks like it will be a great season.

Nice new tweet button :-) (none / 0) (#8)
by Edger on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 10:44:31 PM EST

Thanks, Edger (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Jeralyn on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:09:43 AM EST

I really appreciate your help earlier on this. Colin, our webmaster, explained that this one which is from Twitter, avoids ads from third parties, shortens the urls and opens within the site. I'm really pleased with it.

For those of you who asked about it, I remembered the twitter account I set up just for talkleft posts. It's TalkLeft Posts. I'm not going to put every single post there, just all the "substantive" ones (meaning not open threads for now. It will have BTD's posts too.

TalkLeft's and my regular twitter account is here and I use it mostly for news I don't have time to write a whole post on, to link other tweets, and follow breaking news. You are all welcome to follow either or both, and both have RSS feeds you can put in your readers.


I started using the iPad app called Times (none / 0) (#27)
by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:50:01 AM EST

for RSS aggregation. Formats the blogs into a nice magazine format. TL looks great!


: I just downloaded it, looks good so far. (none / 0) (#56)
by republicratitarian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:24:23 PM EST

Hung (none / 0) (#9)
by Cream City on Sun Aug 15, 2010 at 11:02:01 PM EST

had some marvelous turns tonight -- and it was good to put the focus back on the grownups. The teen twins' angsts are for another audience age group.

But such full frontal nudity! That's new; usually we just get above-the-waist for women . . . and the great buns of the lead guy.

Speaking of nudity (none / 0) (#13)
by NYShooter on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:58:26 AM EST

It's well known that a lot of apparently brain dead young girls are sending and swapping nude photos of themselves around the "net." But I read an article last night that sheds a whole new light on this subject.

Now, it's also no secret that some low life male slugs are blackmailing these youngsters and basically forcing the girls into a life of hard core pornography.

What I didn't know is the severe penalties that are meted out to convicted blackmailers. In the article I read two guys were convicted of the acts I described: One guy got 15 years, the other 25!

WoW!


I think I saw the same article... (none / 0) (#18)
by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:20:00 AM EST

they're calling it "sextortion". Low life slugs is right, but those sentences are low-life sluggish too.

Plus the kids who are getting charged with child-pron for sharing nudie pics of their peers...once again our "cures" to such problems rival or exceed the disease.


Murderers don't get 25 years (none / 0) (#22)
by NYShooter on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:35:13 AM EST

Showing boobies beats taking a life?

Has Jerry Falwell been reincarnated?

This is nuts!


: Nuts and getting nuttier... (none / 0) (#26)
by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:48:28 AM EST

by the day...we've got a real love affair with dem cages...it's sadistic.

Yes, was glad to see it get back on track (none / 0) (#29)
by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:54:13 AM EST

and the nudity was surprising. I kept marveling at the actress's concentration. She had a lot of talking in that scene.


Hung (none / 0) (#30)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:58:52 AM EST

is awsum


Oh, good -- I'm so glad (none / 0) (#33)
by Cream City on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:36:23 AM EST

to not be the only one here hung up on Hung. And I'm in the good company of Ruffian and Capt. Howdy!

Of course, part of the fun for me is the glimpse of the insanity of the life of high school history teachers -- and coaches -- in the current budget climate. It truly rings true, with scenes such as the one a few weeks ago when our hung hero, the coach, was told by the budget admin that there was funding to take the team to away games . . . but no funding to bring them back. Plus the nix on new uniforms that actually would fit the big players.

So what is a dedicated teacher and coach to do but get out there and hook for the funds for the team?


been hooked from the beginning (none / 0) (#38)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:47:49 AM EST

but I have some catching up to do.
been busy.


Aw, thanks! the feeling is mutual (none / 0) (#44)
by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:05:33 AM EST

I also like the mix of high school life, the suburban angst of the Anne Heche character, and of course the hooking. And then mid-east hummus politics last night. Not to mention a little pimp-on -pimp action. I'm waiting for Tanya to go to work for her pimp-buddy. Really a funny show, and getting better all the time.


: I love (none / 0) (#45)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:07:44 AM EST

the quiet desperation of the whole thing.

KUSC FM Sunday night opera (none / 0) (#10)
by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:01:42 AM EST

program: Verdi's "Falstaff."

And the Padres beat the Giants.

Tebow's first pre-season NFL game: (none / 0) (#12)
by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:02:45 AM EST

Tim Tebow closes strong

finally saw inception (none / 0) (#17)
by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:05:19 AM EST

good flick. High expectations - didn't disappoint.

I saw it again (none / 0) (#21)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:25:26 AM EST

in a theater. I rarely do that any more.


: everyone wants to debate (none / 0) (#24)
by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:46:03 AM EST

the ending. I'm content to let it be. If we were supposed to know, we'd know.

extra virgin?? (none / 0) (#19)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:22:15 AM EST

being a bit of an olive oil freak I found this very interesting.

Your Olive Oil May Not Be The Virgin It Claims

Thanks -- this is handy (none / 0) (#35)
by Cream City on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:38:53 AM EST

as we're learning more about olive oils prior to heading out to do more tastings to track down the ones we want, spoiled as we are after time in Italy.

We have made bruschetta a regular light meal now, with the lovely time of year for great tomatoes from the garden. And we already tracked down a very good ciabatta bread close by. But we still have not quite replicated the right olive oil. . . .


bruschetta! (none / 0) (#37)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:46:10 AM EST

this weekend a neighbor gave me a giant bag of tomatoes and I made two of my favorite things. on saturday bruschetta and yesterday gazpacho. both were heaven. I have a giant thermos of gazpacho for lunch. just toddled down to the coffee shop bakery and grabbed a lovely baguette.

You want good bread? (none / 0) (#40)
by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:58:55 AM EST

For bruschetta and just about anything else?

Try the no-knead recipe from the NYT.

I make it in a heavy cast iron camp oven (like a dutch oven but with a domed lid and no legs) or a generic enameled soup pot with lid. Either way, I get a hard, crackly crust and a nice, strong open crumb with a lot of body that rivals the stuff one gets from the best Italian bakeries in NY or NJ - the ones that ship their bread up and down the East Coast.

Trust me on this - you will get the best bread for anything Italian and for next-to-no work or money (maybe $0.30 a loaf, of that $0.25 a loaf for the flour). The total work time for me is maybe 5 minutes over the course of a day, and most of that comes in when you're looking in the oven and checking it for doneness.


Thanks for the link (none / 0) (#42)
by Yman on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:00:40 AM EST

Will definitely have to try this.


Yup, easy and good. (none / 0) (#47)
by nycstray on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:13:14 AM EST

one of my favs. I bought his book recently for other ideas on what to do with it. has a few recipes in it for things to make great sandwiches etc. I need to work out making it with my sour dough starter now that I live in sour dough land :)


I suspect that (none / 0) (#55)
by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:58:54 PM EST

if you count the sourdough starter as part of the liquid, you'll probably get there.

My guess is that, since the recipe calls for 1 5/8 cups of water, if you substitute 2 tablespoons of starter (16 TB to the cup => 1/8 cup) and mix it with 1 1/2 cups of water, then add it to the flour and salt, you'll get there.

The nice part is, since you are using time to substitute for working the dough, if that 2 TB of starter is too little to get the dough ready in 12 or 14 hours, you can just let it run on for a couple more hours and let the little yeasties continue. I've seen alternate recipes which use a little more yeast and let it sit and work for less time. In some ways, a 12 or 14 hour work time is really awkward for scheduling baking at a reasonable hour, an 18 hour schedule is worse, and a 20-22 hour schedule might work really well.

But, hey, it's baking bread and, it's not like you have a huge investment in materials.


: Thanks! (none / 0) (#57)
by nycstray on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:37:17 PM EST

I'll try that.
I like the time frame. I usually start the dough before bed, which if I'm up working later can be pretty darn late at night/early morning. Also, I have left it longer to fit my sched. Since it's so fast to whip up, I just try and think of my next day's obligations to fit in baking time. Working at home really helps ;)

I know it's subjective, ... (none / 0) (#41)
by Yman on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:59:25 AM EST

... but Columela makes a great olive oil - top rated by Cook's Illustrated and America's Test Kitchen. Shipping can be a little pricey, but not a bad price if you can find it locally.


my story (none / 0) (#20)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:24:50 AM EST

the names have been changed.

predator-dad-son

North Korea (none / 0) (#23)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:38:46 AM EST

would you say this was a carelessly worded or carefully worded statement?

N.Korea warns of 'severest punishment' over war games
. . a spokesman for the country's army General Staff said in a statement published by state media.
"The military counteraction of (North Korea) will be the severest punishment no one has ever met in the world," he said.

Who says we can't create jobs (none / 0) (#25)
by MO Blue on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:46:45 AM EST

Your stimulus funds at work.

SMYRNA -- A Mexican guest worker says a landscaping company with Tennessee state contracts and a federal stimulus loan guarantee held him and fellow workers like indentured servants, confiscating their passports and subjecting them to constant surveillance by managers who were often armed.
...
The company, which has $2.4 million in state Transportation Department contracts and a $900,000 a stimulus loan guarantee from the U.S. Department of Agriculture, has offices in Smyrna and Mason. link

State and federal funds used to import workers from Mexico on H1B visas as "indentured servants." Best of both worlds. :-)

I guess it is really too much to expect that U.S. taxpayer money be used to create jobs for U.S. citizens rather than to exploit foreign workers. Oh, and BTW, I am neither appreciative or grateful for this use of taxpayer funds.

squeaky (none / 0) (#28)
by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 09:50:01 AM EST

this is what happens if you dont watch tv.

this is one amazing music video. Blockhead.

The Music Scene

Colombian jet crashes on San Andres (none / 0) (#34)
by jeffinalabama on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:37:15 AM EST

Island, only one fatality aboard the 737. Glad I wasn't on that flight. Boy, I missed a terrorist bombing by a day, then airline crashes... reminds me of how fortunate I am.

Back at work now, working on some plans for Colombia (kdog, I'm thinking... and thinking more! Met a profesora on the flight to Bogota who was amazed at my Spanish, and wants me to email-- her university might need a fat, balding, gimpy gringo who speaks excellent Spanish and has no cavities!)

I'm glad only one person died in the crash. Only four major injuries.

I think Sarcastic Unnamed One knows that airport and island...

If you get to bring along... (none / 0) (#43)
by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:03:22 AM EST

a grossly unqualified T.A., please consider my sorry arse!

I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say thank goodness your stars were aligned and you weren't on that flight...you're running good, my good man.


Welcome back, jeff (none / 0) (#60)
by caseyOR on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:59:58 PM EST

Good to know you met with no mishaps on the trip home.

That's sounds like possible good news on the job in Columbia front. If it's what you want, I hope it pans out. I have to say, living somewhere other than the USA is sounding more alluring every day. And, boy howdy, I never thought I'd think that.

Do you think a gimpy gringa could make it south of the border living on Social Security?


: Without a doubt. (none / 0) (#61)
by jeffinalabama on Tue Aug 17, 2010 at 08:16:24 AM EST

Check out Uruguay, costa rica, and Belize-- and remember,
Belize is an English-speaking country.