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    I was at the Safeway (grocery store)... (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:03:30 PM EST
    ...yesterday and took my loaded down cart through the 15 items or less line.  How could I be so "rude" you ask?  Well, it was the only checkstand open, nobody else was in line at the time and I refuse to use the self-checkout lines without proper compensation for my labor--especially with a lot of stuff.  I also asked the checker if it was OK before I began to unloaded my cart.

    In the end, nobody--employee or customer--called me skinny, ugly or any other hateful names, gave me dirty looks, flipped me off, rolled their eyes, threatened to sue me or called 911. In fact, nobody seemed to notice or care.  Go figure.

    And in further news (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:22:21 PM EST
    the Piggly Wiggly incident now has hit the headlines.

    Parent
    Interesting additional info in that (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:30:14 PM EST
    report, huh?  Had a feeling there was more to the story than we were being told.

    One thing I meant to ask "lost in wisconsin," but didn't, was "would you have handled this situation the same way if the person with too many items had been a man?"

    Parent

    That makes it a completely (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:37:13 PM EST
    different story.  The woman had permission to check out in that line from the checker/cashier, and the person being ticketed was a past "anger issues" aquaintance of the police officer.  That changes everything up in a big way.

    Parent
    Or... (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:37:58 PM EST
    the cop could just have a hard on for this guy, for whatever reason.

    I mean it's a cop, they lie for a living:)

    Parent

    See.....I blacked that out (none / 0) (#167)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:50:36 PM EST
    Investigated it only weeks ago, actually had a figure about how much they lie, but I just couldn't deal with how corrupt the real life system is and now I have blacked it out :)  I did talk a little bit about "corruption" though a few days before my dog thing was dropped.  There were a few discrepancies that I still can't quite put my finger on and probably never will now.  Because I was not home, I just had to take the word of others and I felt really bad about what happened so I didn't look at much of that in detail for a long time...and then that word did not line up and it even looked like someone might have committed a bit of perjury.  I did mention that after I was called a "bully".

    Parent
    There was no one waiting or in line at the 10 items or less counter, or express line so she asked the clerk if she could take her and she said yes. A bit later another customer came up and strenuously objected.

    "I was bending over getting eight little can goods and I heard, 'Can't you blank, blank, read?' I was like, 'Are you kidding me?'" the woman said.

    The man went on to call her fat and ugly. The woman said she called 911. A police officer happened to be in the area.

    "He went and called her names and caused in all of my years of law enforcement, a disturbance," Saukville police Officer Barry Effinger said.

    The man was issued a citation for disorderly conduct with a $429 fine. This was the man's second such incident investigated by the same officer in two years.



    Parent
    So... Lost in Wisconsin (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:04:34 PM EST
    came on this blog and lied about what transpired, hoping to get a bunch of sympathy (which he did), hoping to get legal advice (which he did, until it was discouraged), and the woman involved was further insulted here.

    Funny how not having all the facts creates one kind of scenario. Now that the facts of the incident are coming to light, things aren't lookin' too good for "Lied in Wisconsin."

    Parent

    Who knows if this is true? (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:16:37 PM EST
    A quick interview with the checker (none / 0) (#52)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:17:24 PM EST
    would confirm it, no?

    Parent
    Quick? (none / 0) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:38:11 PM EST
    I think a thorough discussion would be in order.

    I still think the store clerk should not have let her in the express lane.

    Parent

    No one knows until (none / 0) (#60)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:24:53 PM EST
    some journalist or judge gets both/all sides of the story.  We only have two sides so far, that of the commenter and that of the cops.

    Parent
    Cop wasn't there (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:31:58 PM EST
    So he would not know.

    The store clerk is the important witness it seems to me.

    Parent

    A la Polanski case, perhaps we could (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:44:31 PM EST
    take the clerk's deposition to preserve her testimony in case she is later "unavailable."  Then the court will seal the transcript and only you, I, the clerk, her attorney, and the court reporter will be privy to her testimony. Oh, and maybe "Lost in Wisconsin" and his retained attorney.

    Parent
    Seems like the case. (none / 0) (#38)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:09:19 PM EST
    This isn't an unusual response, given (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:09:48 PM EST
    this is a defense blog.  

    Parent
    I asked to see the ticket (none / 0) (#55)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:19:07 PM EST
    and treated it as a hypothetical.

    BTW, even accepting that story as being the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I still don't see disorderly conduct.

    I would also add that if the store clerk said it was ok, then what the hell is the point of an express line?

    Seems like our commenter was telling the truth about the 60 items though.

    Parent

    You did. And I agree--still shouldn't (none / 0) (#61)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:26:16 PM EST
    be "disorderly conduct."  Sounds like the insulter and the law enforcement officer have a history w/each other.  

    Parent
    There's another issue (none / 0) (#70)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:33:07 PM EST
    Bingo (none / 0) (#126)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:25:29 PM EST
    My dog has a history, of not liking cats.  If he ever takes out another cat...even on his own property....it's probably curtains for him.

    Parent
    I've heard of the "one bite" (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:37:53 PM EST
    exception.  Alabama is pretty liberal--on some things.

    But did you see stuff about the local TV reporter who showed up for a post-scrimage news conference with a Gators cap on?  She got fired!

    Parent

    My dog did not bite a person ever (none / 0) (#156)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:10:15 PM EST
    He bit a cat, he had scratches all over his face too so it didn't look one sided.  I have never heard of a dog being accused of being vicious though because it did not like cats and considered them a foe.

    Parent
    And you can barely find (none / 0) (#157)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:12:11 PM EST
    anything Auburn lately, everything is Alabama.  I guess I didn't get the memo.

    Parent
    37 items, per new link below (none / 0) (#71)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:33:46 PM EST
    but permission from the cashier is not uncommon, when other lines are busy, and no one is in the express checkout line.

    So I want to know whether the cashier spoke up at some point to try to defuse the situation by saying that permission had been granted -- among the many things I still want to know on this.  

    Parent

    Not necessarily -- remember (none / 0) (#42)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:12:34 PM EST
    the source is the local police, and they have been known to not tell, shall we say, the full story.

    Parent
    That said (none / 0) (#47)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:15:18 PM EST
    I was one who was called out for not being so sympathetic and calling him out for rudeness -- but was told that was not the focus of the post.  I must have misread the question in the headline.:-)

    Parent
    The lady still... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:13:37 PM EST
    was over the line calling 911...I've been called far worse than fat and ugly and still never dreamed of involving the authorities...that lady is shot, I'm sorry.

    Parent
    If only she realized "Lost in Wisconsin" (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:28:34 PM EST
    was playing "dozens."  "You're so fat and ugly you can't read."

    Parent
    Well played Oculus... (none / 0) (#73)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:34:37 PM EST
    you'll be the dozens champ of the opera appreciation community!

    I guess no one was kind enough to teach that dime-dropper "sticks and stones may break my bones..." or "I'm rubber and your glue...."

    Parent

    I didn't think the video clip BTD posted (none / 0) (#86)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:42:05 PM EST
    was all that funny.  We could do better!

    Parent
    It isn't the name-calling, kdog, it's (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:44:32 PM EST
    the level of the man's anger that accompanied it, and not knowing how it was all going to resolve: people have ended up shot or stabbed in situations that were far less confrontational.

    And it was also man v. woman, which adds another layer of concern.

    When you're in a line at the store, and the angry person in line behind you, who is already yelling things at you, decides to take it to the next level, you are trapped with your cart in front of you, the next checkout station right next to you, and nowhere to go.

    That would scare me, I can tell you, so I don't think I would be so quick to judge her for calling 911.

    Parent

    In a dark alley... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:56:45 PM EST
    just the two of them, maybe I could see it.

    In a well lit Piggly Wiggly with a cashier right there?  C'mon Anne...dropping a dime is a far greater "assault" than calling somebody illiterate, fat, & ugly...I don't care how angry the words.  

    This lady wouldn't last 5 minutes in NY:)

    Parent

    I used to think a good cop (none / 0) (#153)
    by MKS on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:05:27 PM EST
    would keep the peace.  Talk people down.  What a fantasy that was...

    No, a good cop always arrests people....imposes punishment....

    Parent

    that is why people were (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:16:09 PM EST
    ragging on her.  not to clutter this with facts.


    Parent
    Calling 911 was unnecessary (none / 0) (#54)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:18:52 PM EST
    No doubt. But for Lost in Wisconsin to come on here and lie... well, pick your poison,

    Parent
    Yep, looks like (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:31:53 PM EST
    "So I neglected to tell that part of the story in Wisconsin" has this going against him as well:
    [Officer Effinger] explained that the guy continued to harass the woman until she called police.
    I would expect the cop asked the cashier what happened and she corroborated the woman's story.

    Parent
    Define "harass" (none / 0) (#68)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:32:39 PM EST
    Impossible of course, but the main question is why would you ask such a thing?

    Parent
    Because someone was charged (none / 0) (#81)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:39:58 PM EST
    based on that word.

    How would you define it is my question.

    For example, was my question harassing you?

    Should I be charged with disorderly conduct for asking it?

    Parent

    Not sure (none / 0) (#97)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:51:23 PM EST
    You were a part of the original thread on this right?

    The issue was precisely that - what is "disorderly conduct?"

    I'm still not seeing it, despite the possible embellishments in the story.

    Parent

    Fair enough. (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:02:16 PM EST
    I usually try to bring facts into the discussions here on TL, mostly because it seems like every time I get in a righteous snit over a story I then find out there's more to the story than I was aware...

    Parent
    Of course, she was -- and in big cities (none / 0) (#49)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:16:25 PM EST
    in Wisconsin, she would be ticketed and pay a fine for it, too.  That is, if a cop ever found time to show up, with all the calls they get in the cities.

    Parent
    "The lady is shot" (none / 0) (#51)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:16:46 PM EST
    Not sure about that. Looks to me like the liar is the one who is screwed. Hope he doesn't further compound his problems by lying to a judge.

    Parent
    Still don't think ... (none / 0) (#92)
    by Yman on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:47:06 PM EST
    ... being rude/obnoxious should qualify as disorderly conduct, but he's definitely a less sympathetic participant - particularly since he kept insulting the woman and ignored (according to the officer) a verbal warning before he was cited.

    Parent
    According to the cop (none / 0) (#95)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:49:13 PM EST
    there was a previous incident. Not that he was warned during this one.

    Parent
    Unclear, within the context (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:54:04 PM EST
    of the second story (linked below).  The quote --

    "It was done first with a verbal warning, and then you have to escalate it because you're just not getting it that you're just not respecting people," Effinger said.

    -- follows the graf re a reported earlier incident but that does not mean that the quote does so.  (Another example of a story that needs better editing, but copy editors are fewer these days even in print media and always have been all too rare in broadcast media, the source of these stories.)

    Parent

    This part is a little fuzzy to me. (none / 0) (#102)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:55:51 PM EST
    Different articles I've googled implied the cop was at the store and presumably witnessed the event, other articles imply he was nearby and merely the first cop to show up at the scene.

    Also, since the cop and the defendant have a history, and if the cop was in the store, I'm not sure if the cop meant he gave a verbal warning in this incident or if he meant he gave a verbal warning sometime in the past.

    Parent

    And on other blogs (none / 0) (#106)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:00:09 PM EST
    Googled some of the words from the story and found the exact same story elsewhere around the internets where "Lost" posted under his first name.  I figured the story was on snopes somewhere because it was so one-sided.

    "Lost" is lucky she only called 911 on him and didn't punch him in the kisser.

    Parent

    I think you've got that backwards... (none / 0) (#160)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:22:24 PM EST
    I much rather get punched in the face than have the fuzz sicked on me.  Dealing with the fuzz makes a shot to the kisser feel like a kiss...speaking for me:)

    Parent
    Dude (none / 0) (#166)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:49:49 PM EST
    I live in Virginia, where personal taser are legal.  But for $500 that separates me from buying one, had this guy gone off on me, there's a good chance he would  have been on the ground twitching.

    Parent
    and you might have (none / 0) (#168)
    by CST on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:06:03 PM EST
    been arrested for assault in that situation.

    Parent
    JB walks hard... (none / 0) (#185)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:16:59 PM EST
    I love it.  Even a tasing is preferable to calling the cops...sh*t challenge 'em to a Burr v Hamilton duel to the death...just don't drop a dime over name calling.

    Note to self...don't be so hard on jb:)

    Parent

    And here's the link to that story (none / 0) (#63)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:29:19 PM EST
    with more information , especially at the end, that may be useful for others to consider when commenting.

    Parent
    The officer will be the prosecution's (none / 0) (#93)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:47:59 PM EST
    expert witness:  

    "He went and called her names and caused in all of my years of law enforcement, a disturbance," Saukville police Officer Barry Effinger said.

    BTW, why is the media not reporting the names of the two shoppers?  What is there policy?  No minors involved.  No allegations involving rape etc.

    Parent

    These are teevee news stories (none / 0) (#101)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:55:49 PM EST
    and the broadcast sorts tend to report soundbytes, often missing info, compared to the requirements in print media.  So the suspicion that there is more to this story is not assuaged by only broadcast stories.  Cut to commercial!

    Parent
    But is she "fat and ugly"? Also, (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:07:48 PM EST
    wonder what happened re the perp's prior "anger issues"?

    Parent
    Update: The Piggly Wiggly story now (none / 0) (#88)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:44:32 PM EST
    is the most popular story on several local news sites in Wisconsin -- ahead of even what is termed "Cirque du Favre" here.

    Parent
    We are counting on you! (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:48:35 PM EST
    You outlaw, you (none / 0) (#17)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:10:00 PM EST
    ;-)

    Parent
    I do it here all the time (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:27:28 PM EST
    but as you say the no one cares.  and I am almost always carrying a basket not a cart.  
    in my reckoning if I can get it into a basket I can get it through the express lane.

    it does seem to observe a rule I heard Apu once quote on the Simpsons.  "all pathetic single men.  all cash. no chit chat."

    Parent

    Self-Checkout... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:10:40 PM EST
    is the worst thing ever...every time I've tried to use one I had problems...not working, not taking my cash, the stupid scales under the bags going haywire.

    I'll take up shoplifting due to lack of cashiers before I use one of those again.

    Parent

    My objections to self-checkout (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:32:47 PM EST
    are that (1) it's taken jobs away from humans who need them, (2) it doesn't cost any less when you scan, bag and pack the cart yourself, and (3) it doesn't save any time.

    My store now allows you to scan and bag as you go through the store, but you still have to "check out" and pay when you're finished; I think it's all packaged as "time-saving," but I think what it's really all about is saving them the expense of an employee's salary and benefits.

    Parent

    They're cutting costs Anne! (none / 0) (#122)
    by vicndabx on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:21:57 PM EST
    Probably to pass on savings to consumers.

    Just like you want those damned health insurers to do!

    /s

    Parent

    I could not disagree more. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:13:25 PM EST
    I think it is the greatest thing ever invented.

    Parent
    Yo tambien. (none / 0) (#58)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:23:23 PM EST
    I am the king of self check out. I blaze through.

    Parent
    How do you do w/the self check out (none / 0) (#64)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:29:30 PM EST
    at the library?  

    Parent
    Love the self check out at my (none / 0) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:37:11 PM EST
    library and hate the self check out at grocery store. At the library all I have to do is stack my books and the machine does the rest. No individual scanning, weighing etc. involved.

    Parent
    Usually whatever I have checked out and (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:49:42 PM EST
    "desensitized" beeps when I go out the door.  

    Parent
    BTW, the library system (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:06:13 PM EST
    saves me time and effort. Self check out at the grocery store, just makes me do work previously done more efficiently by someone else and takes up more of my time.

    Parent
    I love (none / 0) (#113)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:10:13 PM EST
    The hand held scanners that allow me to scan and bag as I go.  Shows me howuch I'm spending so I'm not surprised when I get up to the register.

    Parent
    Forgot to mention: (none / 0) (#116)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:14:05 PM EST
    as I avoid self-checkout at the grocery store, I do tend to self-bag.  Just a little habit I've developed from too many unfortunate bagging situations from inexperienced young hires who don't take their jobs seriously or who tend to want to wastefully use extra bags I don't think are warranted.

    (one thing I have in common with the lovely, but apparently spoken for, Mariel Hemingway, seen a few times at the local organic food store bagging her own ...)

    Parent

    Many of our grocery chains have (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:33:15 PM EST
    been hiring mentally challenged people to bag groceries, round up shopping carts etc. It is a program that I support since it does help give this group some monetary independence. Sure it saves the stores money too. A win - win situation.

    Parent
    Right, there's that (none / 0) (#135)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:35:58 PM EST
    situation, and whenever I see it at some stores, I tend to allow that person to go ahead and bag.

    Parent
    I do worry about the job prospects (none / 0) (#121)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:21:21 PM EST
    for librarians.  

    Parent
    That does bother me (none / 0) (#130)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:28:17 PM EST
    So far, it looks like they have found other more productive duties for them to do since I still see the same faces when I go in.

    Parent
    I worry about the prospects (none / 0) (#140)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:40:25 PM EST
    for librarians, libraries and books, what with state budgetary problems and the trend towards these fancy e-book things.  Better to celebrate what's there now, patronize the place frequently and be as friendly as possible with all concerned, because tomorrow or five years from now, who knows if it will still be there ...

    Parent
    I definitely make good use (none / 0) (#152)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:03:41 PM EST
    of my library. I am a committed bookaholic and I want a real book in my hands and not an e-book. Hope I am long gone before they do away with real books and libraries.

    BTW, my library is used extensively by our community. We have some working poor areas in our city and our people, young and old, use  the computers for help in school, job searches, resume creation etc. The spaces are used for help people obtain educations skills and small group meetings. There are free beginning computer classes for people who need to acquire some basic skills as well as extensive programs for children.

    Our librarians are knowledgeable and friendly so it would take a real jerk not to respond in kind.

    Parent

    Not sure if we have a different system (none / 0) (#104)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:57:59 PM EST
    or if our implementation was just done really well.
    I only had one small problem since they started this process and I go to the library once a week. In the first week or two of implementation, one of the books I wanted had not been upgraded to the new system. Since then, it has worked flawlessly.

    Parent
    We have self-checkout (none / 0) (#112)
    by brodie on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:09:04 PM EST
    at our library, but I prefer the old fashioned way unless the line is oppressively long.  Lets me chat with some of the clerks about what we've all been reading lately, as I get their views occasionally on some of the non-fiction/history books I tend to read.  

    Ditto for the grocery store self-checkout.  No not book chat, but it allows for another of those small human interactions in the week that are becoming increasingly less common.  As with the banking situation of yore (though ATMs are a definite improvement all told).

    Parent

    Me too (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by DancingOpossum on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:14:19 PM EST
    I hate the self-checkout at the grocery store because, like Anne said, I dislike taking jobs away from people--and my local supermarket is good purveyor of desirable union jobs. Also, I like the human contact. There are a couple of checkers I'm friendly with and I like the chit-chat, I like running into them in other parts of town and being able to talk with them, I like relating to them as human beings not just as faceless clerks.

    Same with the library; we have self-checkout but I never use it, partly because I always have a late fee to pay (heh) and also because I can't be bothered to figure it out. Maybe I'm just a gabby, nosey person--Mr. DO once said, "Good lord, do you talk to everybody?" after hearing me ask a train conductor about his recent foot surgery...Well, why not?

    Parent

    so (none / 0) (#187)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:19:02 PM EST
    you are the person who I hate getting behind in the checkout line.

    I bet you write checks.


    Parent

    The ones I avoid in the checkout line (none / 0) (#192)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:41:29 PM EST
    are not as much the ones with checkbooks as the ones with coin purses.  And lots of coupons.  Ah, the joy of being behind someone who is paying by counting out dimes, nickels, and pennies . . . counting out coupons and quarreling about expiration dates.  (And I am a great user of coupons but always review and organize them.)

    And the day I avoid the grocery store entirely is senior-citizen discount day.  Nothing against those only a bit older than me, but it is dangerous to be on the same street and in the parking lot with too many of them.

    Parent

    why the hell (none / 0) (#197)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:47:59 PM EST
    do people still write checks.
    can someone tell me?

    Parent
    Habit (none / 0) (#198)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:53:04 PM EST
    And some people like to draw...  The bank keeps trying to get me to go paperless, but no f'ing way.

    They made a big mistake on my checking account, and debited $8,000...  I was traveling and had big problems, pay phone booth in the mountains, on hold, running out of change....  hours...

    When I got back home, all of their mistakes were wiped clean, as if they never happened, from my online account... I will never give up the paper record, and I will never trust the banks...

    Parent

    I havent written a check (none / 0) (#202)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 06:03:52 PM EST
    in 10 years at least.  the records have never been in any way wrong.  my bank bill pay even has a service (free) where if the cant electronically transfer money to pay bill THEY will cut and mail a check.

    Parent
    Although both at the library and (none / 0) (#120)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:20:50 PM EST
    grocery store I don't always get much response.  More like:  poor old gal, she must live by herself!

    Parent
    Well said brodie... (none / 0) (#125)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:23:57 PM EST
    I don't enjoy shopping but the banter with the deli clerk, the butcher, and the cashier can make it interesting...as well as fellow customers.

    Especially this one employee at my Pathmark...he has some kind of disability, the kindest most friendly person you're ever gonna meet...a real gem for the store, and always very helpful...I come up with sh*t to ask him because he just loves his job so much and I can tell it makes his day to help a customer.

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:45:28 PM EST
    the greatest invention since ATMs anyway

    Parent
    Even better (none / 0) (#108)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:02:50 PM EST
    here in NY we have delivery -- order online and stuff is delivered. Saves having to lug heavy things home in this non-car culture.

    Parent
    I guess the Midwest is not as (none / 0) (#114)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:10:57 PM EST
    behind in technology as some might think. We can order groceries online and the store will deliver for a small fee. Mostly used by people with physical limitations since we are primarily by necessity a car culture.

    Parent
    You're bugging... (none / 0) (#109)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:03:55 PM EST
    ATM's...the greatest leechery scam running.

    But ya might be getting more use out of 'em, and paying more fees...saw a blurb on the news this morning that more retailers and restaurants are going cash only, tired of getting leeched by the bank in this tight economy.  And the onsite ATM's of course have a fee.

    And others are offering discounts for people who pay cash...a long overdue development.  Cash is where it's at, plastic is the devil.

    Parent

    fees suck (none / 0) (#118)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:14:46 PM EST
    but I would pay double to never have to deal with a bank teller.

    Parent
    I don't deal with a teller... (none / 0) (#127)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:26:07 PM EST
    or the ATM...just my friendly neighborhood check-cashing guy.

    Cash and carry for life!

    Parent

    I was going to ask (none / 0) (#139)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:38:07 PM EST
    you how you self checkout but I guess they take cash dont they.
    although I have never used it at one.


    Parent
    Yep... (none / 0) (#145)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:50:44 PM EST
    they have a bill collector on the blasted machines...but it don't wanna take your bills, humans are much better at that.

    Seriously hatin' on the LIRR and Metrocard machines too...if I miss one more train fighting to get it to take my legal tender I'm gonna go "Player Piano" on it's arse.  

    Bring back the human ticket and Metrocard clerks!  Sh*t, bring back tokens, the Metrocard scanners suck too!

    Parent

    in fact (none / 0) (#159)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:22:13 PM EST
    I have a special deal with my bank that says I get a discount for never using a teller.
    I do everything electronically.  which is fine by me since I an 600 miles from my bank.

    I would be happy to make the same deal with the supermarket and never have to deal with a gum smacking teen aged checkout girl.

    Parent

    Teenage checkout girls... (none / 0) (#161)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:31:44 PM EST
    When I was younger cuz I had mucho success picking up checkout girls...but now I'd just be a dirty old man.

    Another reason to go human over machine...ya just might get some lovin' if you're game is tight:)

    Parent

    Love the self-checkout (none / 0) (#105)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:59:36 PM EST
    at my grocery.  I am especially in wonder when my self-checkout computer can detect the KIND of veggies I have on the scale.

    Love the self checkout AND self-checkin at my library too.

    Don't want anybody to lose their jobs because of it, but it is a nice way to get yer stuff in a hurry! I get tired of checkers who dally while joking with their friends while I'm in a hurry.  And we seem to have loads of them at my local Safeway....which is most likely a management problem....

    Parent

    not one is losing jobs (none / 0) (#115)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:13:50 PM EST
    did you ever use one that did not have someone hovering over them?
    not to mention all the people who are employed to make sell and maintain the things.


    Parent
    Rare Momment (none / 0) (#59)
    by efm on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:23:45 PM EST
    Going to have to agree with you kdog.  I'm a tech guy and usually love most new gadgets, but thats only if they work right.  I hate these things.  Check something out and it forces you to put it in the bagging area, which it may or may not notice the pack of skittles i got for my daughter. Or if you have some big items and want to take somethhing off of the bagging area and put it into the cart, it flips out and you need a cashier to aprove of it anyway.  I prefer waiting behind the guy with 50 items in the 10 or less line than using those.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#119)
    by vicndabx on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:19:51 PM EST
    it may or may not notice the pack of skittles


    Parent
    the best thing about self-checkout (none / 0) (#117)
    by CST on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:14:41 PM EST
    is there is no bagging-conflict.

    In the event I forget to bring a re-usable bag to the grocery store (more often than not unfortunately), I still try to be as efficient as possible with plastic bags.  That means no double bagging, and I stuff those things.  If it breaks that's my problem, but for heavy items I usually just carry from the bottom and frankly, I've never had a bag break - but that's a risk I'm willing to take over time.

    Stores routinely ignore or misinterpret this request, and aften I am busy unloading items from the cart to self-bag, or they do it along with me anyway.

    Parent

    There is a 5 cent (none / 0) (#128)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:27:12 PM EST
    Per bag charge in DC (even for takeout food).  Using the money to clean up the Anacostia River which is filled up with plastic bags.

    Virginia is tossing this idea around too.

    Parent

    Let me know when the job is done (none / 0) (#143)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:48:53 PM EST
    and they stop collecting the nickels.

    Parent
    My Dog Tulip (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:24:27 PM EST
    on trailers (none / 0) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:29:54 PM EST
    this looks pretty cool also

    The Black Swan
    Darren Aronofsky


    Parent

    Just read about that in VF (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:04:59 PM EST
    at lunchtime. Can't wait to see it.

    Parent
    By the way... (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:07:20 PM EST
    As I was reading about it at lunch, my new dog was laying behind me chewing the mini-blind string apart. I was so glad she was calming relaxing until I saw what she had done.

    Parent
    heh (none / 0) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:10:42 PM EST
    last night I came home and Daisy (the problem child) had been busy ripping up the rug in the utility room.

    so today I mixed up a cocktail of the no-chew stuff from the pet store (which she often ignores) and equal amounts of thai chili sauce, mexican chili pepper and crushed jalapenos and coated all grabbable surfaces.

    when I went home to check at lunch the rug was untouched.


    Parent

    I'll try that on the edge of the dog bed (none / 0) (#46)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:14:56 PM EST
    which she also likes to nibble as she lies there. Better give all blind pulleys a dose too, while I'm at it.

    Some days I wish I loved people instead of dogs ;-)

    Parent

    Heh. That would have no effect on mine. (none / 0) (#66)
    by scribe on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:31:57 PM EST
    One morning we're out walking and, as was common in the town where we lived, some folks had tossed the uneaten second half of their drunk food on the sidewalk.  Only, instead of being pizza or french fries, both huge favorites of the dog, this time is was a whole plate of hot wings.

    Burn your tongue and make you cry hot, hot wings.

    Worried about the bones it was all I could do to stop her from wolfing them down.  I had to go in and get one she'd almost gotten down.  The hot sauce was no impediment.  Not even a second's hesitation.

    Thankfully, her tastes are usually limited to foodstuffs, though she has on occasion gone after cork, wooden screwdriver handles and the odd leather item.  

    Parent

    for whatever reason (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:37:58 PM EST
    hot stuff is the only thing I have found that deters Daisy.
    maybe she just doesnt like it.

    Parent
    I'm sure it would not stop my older dog (none / 0) (#141)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:45:16 PM EST
    food does not tarry in his mouth for long enough. He is a gulper.

    New dog likes to lick though, so maybe it will work for her.

    Parent

    dunno (none / 0) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:52:28 PM EST
    Daisy is a gulper and it works for her.

    on gulping and goldens.  I had a wonderful old golden for a long time (he lived to be 20) and he was like ghost but even more so.  he would never EVER touch anything he was not supposed to.  he was the best dog as far as being "good" I have ever had.

    so one day I was in the process of putting some chicken breasts in the broiler and it never occurred to me be worried about leaving them at perfect dog mouth height because of who he was.
    just as I turned around to add some salt and pepper or something out of the corner of my eye I just caught a blur as he grabbed and downed an entire chicken breast in one smooth swift motion.  they looked at me with the most hilarious "omg what did it just do" look that I couldnt even yell at him it was so funny.


    Parent

    Aw, how sweet (none / 0) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:01:11 PM EST
    His instincts got the better of him and he even horrified himself!

    Ginger amazed me the other day, even as I was yelling at her. She put her paws on the counter and licked my latte out of the mug without even spilling any. She can also pick a tomato slice out of a salad.

    But yesterday she sat nice on the floor on the other side of the counter as I made my chicken sandwich. Never even tried to get it. Last week she was all over me. slow progress.....

    Parent

    ah the glories of the modern dog (none / 0) (#175)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:44:12 PM EST
    When I was a boy I had one whose father was named "Handsome Stranger." If I sneaked him inside my Mother could just open the door, show him the broom and he would silently withdraw...

    Now we have a Yorkie that can seize the high ground and has been known to whip a 20+ pound blue Persian twice her size..

    Parent

    Sigh. I am puppysiting this week (none / 0) (#56)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:21:37 PM EST
    and my office from which I write this is a wreck.

    Adorable grandpuppy has lots and lots of toys here, but of course, his favorites are the cats' toys, my slippers (replaced now by old flipflops), my wastebasket, and the corner of every rug.

    With every day that passes, there are fewer and fewer rugs on the floor -- and more and more wastebaskets up on bookshelves.

    And we still have a week to go. . . .


    Parent

    My guest bedroom (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:36:35 PM EST
    is now the throw pillow storage room. Every trash can is hidden away. All doors that can be closed are closed, and there is a baby gate to the living room.  

    I let her sleep in my room with me, and luckily she shows no interest in the books in my bedroom. Yet.

    My own fault for not hearing 'puppy' when they told me 'three yr old golden retriever'. But I swear my old Ruffian was fine with whole house access by 3. She is getting slowly more house friendly though, so I hope to get out of lockdown before I'm 60.

    Parent

    Ha! I love the term "lockdown" (none / 0) (#80)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:39:29 PM EST
    and am going to use that in the daily grandpuppy's report that we are required to transcribe and email to his humans halfway around the world.

    Oh, and he also Skypes them.  We're just his techies.

    Parent

    Ha! I love doggie skype (none / 0) (#91)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:46:27 PM EST
    I thought the web cam at my boarding place was cool. Next time I will demand to be able to skype with them.

    I feel sorry for my older dog who can't get to the couch in the living room anymore during the day. It was a favorite nap spot.  Not fair to have him on lockdown too - I hope he likes his new sister enough to make it up to him. Seems to - they play a lot, though not as much as she would like.

    Parent

    some times (none / 0) (#82)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:40:24 PM EST
    our "loved ones" set very high bars.
    Ghost is the same way.  would never touch anything he shouldnt and just seems to know what those things are.

    not Daisy.  sweet stupid annoying Daisy.
    Ghost is my dog.  Daisy is Ghosts dog.  I put up with her for him because he totally loves her is is so much happier since I got her.

    Parent

    I was resisting getting the dog a dog (none / 0) (#98)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:52:12 PM EST
    for a long time. For the last couple of months I did feel bad though, thinking of him alone so much. I'm sure we will all be happy together eventually. One of us seems quite happy now!

    Parent
    Have to keep puppies (none / 0) (#111)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:07:02 PM EST
    in areas where there are no things to be chewed other than those chew toys/rawhide; IMO, only way to train.  Did this with my last pup, and he grew up not going after anything other than any food he could get into his mouth. While at work, he was left in an area (foyer) by the front door with food, H2O and things to chew, & area was created with a baby gate.

    Parent
    This is an emergency stay with us (none / 0) (#163)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:39:50 PM EST
    at the last minute, as the puppy's primary humans (who do not wish to be described as an animal's "owners") had to fly halfway around the world for a family funeral.  So no time for preparation here -- and at a terrible time of year for teachers. . . .

    Of course, it always is a terrible time to do this to our old cats, so we also are attempting to restrict one species to some rooms, another species to other rooms.  The human species has lowest priority lately!

    But thanks to the good folks here, I learned in an open thread a few weeks ago about puzzle toys for pups.  Spouse just got a break from pre-school year prep (I'm still teaching a summer course and trying to prep for fall two weeks from now, yikes) to get to a pet store and came home with such a toy.  

    Grandpuppy just got it and likes it.  Momentary peace.  Until it's time for another walk! or a cat walks by the other side of the door!  or a human comes in sight! it's fun to be a puppy!

    Parent

    You're a good woman, Cream City (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 06:00:26 PM EST
    In the midst of my chuckles with you over your latest "experiences," I thought (as a person owned by a dog) that you will get a good reward/karma/lots of licks/good doggy love for your efforts...someday. My doggy Valery agrees.

    Parent
    The baby gate to keep the puppy corralled (none / 0) (#172)
    by scribe on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:22:23 PM EST
    is key.  Another point - if the corral area is small enough the puppy won't mess there, because it's like a den.  Momma wolf takes her pups outside to do their business and our dogs have that same instinct - they won't mess their den.

    Parent
    Thanks, yes, we do have a "crate" (none / 0) (#173)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:35:20 PM EST
    as his humans call it, for when he needs to meditate on how to become a good puppy.

    We also have the child gate, but this is a very big puppy already (big for a Sheltie, or according to his breeder, he could have been a show dog).

    So he outgrew that some time ago.  That was an interesting day . . . reminiscent of those days long ago when his human who is my progeny suddenly appeared at my side, when he had been in his crib.
    That day was the cause of whirlwind childproofing of the house, similar to what we are doing today!

    Parent

    HOMOCON (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:37:59 PM EST
    I kid you not.

    world nut daily
    Conservative superstar Ann Coulter today was dropped as a keynote speaker for WND's "Taking America Back National Conference" next month because of her plan to address an event titled "HOMOCON" sponsored by the homosexual Republican group GOProud that promotes same-sex marriage and military service for open homosexuals.

    --

    Asked by Farah why she was speaking to GOProud, Coulter said: "They hired me to give a speech, so I'm giving a speech. I do it all the time."



    and so you dont have (none / 0) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:05:36 PM EST
    to go to world nut daily I cached the poster for you.

    you really must see it.

    a response on another site:

    Ann Coulter = Saint Judy?

    Not. On. My. Watch. B****es.

    It is on like Donkey Cong, Conservaqueers. How dare you? I'm taking this up with the union.



    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#37)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:09:04 PM EST
    Must be on the 'homosexual agenda' we used to hear so much about.

    Parent
    nope (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:22:19 PM EST
    that would be this:

    Betty Bowers (americas best christian) and the homosexual agenda.
     
    its long so I have only grabed hilites.  you should (for you own protection) go and read the whole thing:

    8:00 a.m. Wake up. Wonder where you are.

    8:01 a.m. Realize you are lying on 100 percent cotton sheets of at least a 300 count, so don't panic; you're not slumming.

    8:07 a.m.  Make a high protein breakfast while watching the Today show. Wonder if the stories you've heard about Matt Lauer are true. Decide they must be.

    8:45 a.m.  Climb into red Z4 and try not to look too much like Barbie driving one of her accessories as you pull out of your underground parking. Revos or Armanis? Go with Revos.

    10:30 a.m. Hair appointment for lowlights and cut. Purchase of Aveda anti-humectant pomade.

    1:00 p.m.  Meet someone for whom you only know his waist, chest and penis size from AOL M4M chat for lunch at a hot, new restaurant. Because the maître d' recognizes you from a gay bar, you are whisked past the Christian heterosexual couples who have been waiting patiently for a table since 12:30.

    2:30 p.m. "Dessert at your place." Find out, once again, people lie on AOL.

    3:33 p.m. Assume complete control of the U.S., state, and local governments (in addition to other nations' governments); destroy all healthy Christian marriages; recruit all children grades Kindergarten through 12 into your amoral, filthy lifestyle; secure complete control of the media, starting with sitcoms; molest innocent children; give AIDS to as many people as you can; host a pornographic "art" exhibit at your local art museum; and turn people away from Jesus, causing them to burn forever in Hell.

    4:10 p.m. Time permitting, bring about the general decline of Western Civilization and look like you are having way too much fun doing it.

    4:30 p.m. Take a disco-nap to prevent facial wrinkles from the stress of world conquest and being so terribly witty.



    Parent
    another version of the gay agenda (none / 0) (#123)
    by lilburro on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:22:55 PM EST
    mcsweeney's.

    Pretty similar to mine except I put even less effort into my day.


    Parent

    Another one dances away (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:12:50 PM EST
    Makes me wonder what I was so worked up about 5 years ago if no one was doing anything wrong...

    Justice Dept drops investigation of Delay.

    I don;t like this new Twittered-up site (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by scribe on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:38:18 PM EST
    It takes about 4x as long to load, so I'm sitting there watching the bar at the bottom of the screen flutter with all the filenames going by, one at a time, for up to about a minute.  While it's doing that, I can't even scroll down and continue reading.  And that's every time I go into a story beyond the jump, and go back to main, too.

    If I have to choose between having effective anti-virus and having a Tiwtter link on the site, I'm with anti-virus.  But that just means I read and write on the site less.

    Is that what it is? (none / 0) (#83)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:41:15 PM EST
    Wondered why it seemed slower lately. I've had Safari crash on it a few times today too.

    Parent
    Is that what it is? (none / 0) (#85)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:41:50 PM EST
    I was wondering what was slowing the site.

    Parent
    I've run into a similar slow-load (none / 0) (#170)
    by scribe on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:18:24 PM EST
    problem over at FDL and, from their diagnostic asnd my back and forth with them, it seems that it's the interplay of anti-virus and a site supporting/working with Facebook and/or Twitter.

    It seems (to me, anyway) that this is sorta limited only to Kaspersky antivirus which is, BTW, quite effective at weeding out the nasties.  I can't exclude that other anti0virus programs are having similar issues though perhaps not as pronounced as mine.

    Parent

    +1 (none / 0) (#171)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:22:00 PM EST
    annnnnoying.

    possibly more so because I dont tweet.


    Parent

    I don't notice a change but (none / 0) (#200)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 06:02:10 PM EST
    I'll delete it. It's no big deal. But if the site doesn't load faster with it gone, please let me know.

    Parent
    It Did Not Affect Me (none / 0) (#203)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 06:06:46 PM EST
    But sometimes, for mysterious reasons the site loads very slowly...  no difference for me.... once today it loaded slowly, but the rest of today it was the same as ever...

    I doubt it is twitter.

    Parent

    So I'm thinkin (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:38:42 PM EST
    I'm forty something.  I had Josh when I was 35 and I was in super excellent shape at that time.  I used to race my husband to the local movie theater that was over a mile away and I wouldn't lose by much. I sort of blanked out on big time physical fitness after Josh was born though for a few years.  Then I had pituitary thing and that is over now.  I had horrible asthma too after moving here and a $15,000 air system later that is completely under my control now.  So I'm thinkin, this is the time to get very physically fit again and train for a mini marathon.

    At my grandmother's funeral my Uncle spoke about watching her bloom three distinct times in her life. I'm thinkin it is time to bloom again.

    bloom girl! (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:49:41 PM EST
    I keep saying I am going to start using the stairmaster for something besides a clothes rack but then . . . .

    Parent
    Margaret Mead called it PMZ, mt (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Cream City on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:55:01 PM EST
    for post-menopausal zest!

    Parent
    I made a similar (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by CST on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:58:00 PM EST
    decision about a year and a half ago, after realizing that the transition from student to worker had not gone so smoothly in the first few years.  Seeing my dad go through quadruple-bypass surgery last year was an additional motivator.

    It took a while to get back to form but it feels great.  Now I struggle with having to take it easy on the foot, and I'm chomping at the bit to get back out there.  It's amazing how you begin to rely on that routine, and how it can improve your mood so much, especially if you are like me and do everything outside (vitamin D) instead of in a gym.

    Parent

    Run with the dog(s). (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:03:55 PM EST
    Wonderful (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by christinep on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 06:03:14 PM EST
    I was admiring the re-blooming rose down the block. And, now I'm looking forward to your regeneration & renewal narrative.

    Parent
    Some Hump Day... (none / 0) (#1)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:19:48 AM EST
    law and order madness...2 bartenders face 45 years cage time for...umm, being really cool bartenders.

    Oh, brother. (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:34:26 AM EST
    In other news, fire marshals will soon start arresting drunken college boys who light their- let us say, "gaseous emissions."

    Parent
    lol... (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:41:23 AM EST
    talk about some John Laws desperately begging to be laid off...if this is all they have to do on WA's dime.

    And typically, it appears a lone dime-dropper is to blame for throwing these poor slob's lives upside down...hopefully they find a life before dragging others through the ringer.

    Parent

    Drunken college boys? (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:42:02 AM EST
    That was a grade school staple (along with crank calling and other lost arts) and most of us were a few years away from drinking yet.

    Parent
    A fellow crank caller (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:43:12 AM EST
    We would have loved you.

    Parent
    I'm so glad... (none / 0) (#11)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:55:25 AM EST
    I'm not a kid today and grew up on the front end on the police state-ification of America.  The front end was no prize, but compared to today where kids get dragged outta school in handcuffs for writing on a desk, it was utopia.

    We were lil' felons...who knew until now?  

    Kids of today, I'm so sorry...so very very sorry.

    Parent

    No kidding (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:01:38 PM EST
    I had to be a pet though.  I had to be perceived as a really good kid.  So my bad kid pranks always had to be very well hidden and orchestrated.  I would have surely been caught though growing up in this time frame, not sure what I would have done to survive growing up.  I needed a bad kid outlet, I was too smart and there were so many hypocrites that I needed to somehow survive and overcome.

    Parent
    I grew up getting into fights (none / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:33:26 PM EST
    playing non-team baseball, rubber band and BB gun fights...swiming in ponds, creeks and rivers..fishing by myself and friends.. hunting with real guns starting at age 12... got my ears boxed and my rear end warmed....

    None of these activities would be acceptable today.

    Kdog, we are just humped.

    Parent

    God knows what sort of trouble (none / 0) (#27)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:38:26 PM EST
    a BB gun will get you into now.

    Parent
    huh? (none / 0) (#29)
    by CST on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:51:01 PM EST
    "getting into fights, playing non-team baseball, rubber band and BB gun fights...swiming in ponds, creeks and rivers..fishing by myself and friends.. hunting with real guns starting at age 12... got my ears boxed and my rear end warmed...."

    I've done pretty much everything on that list and I am much much younger than you.  The one exception being the hunting thing, but I was doing target riflery (with a real gun) at that age.  And instead of baseball we usually played pick-up soccer, kickball or dodgeball.  But I think that's mostly a matter of personal preference.

    The world has not come to an end yet.

    Parent

    dont (none / 0) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:54:41 PM EST
    TELL him!

    Parent
    You never called child services (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    on a rear warming threat?

    Parent
    Uh, there was no "warning." (none / 0) (#131)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:28:30 PM EST
    Action was taken on an as desired and preemptive basis by the "warmer" on the "warmee."

    Somehow I survived and I can not remember a single warming session that I did not richly deserve.

    Parent

    Blacked out the abuse huh? (none / 0) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:33:48 PM EST
    Just kidding...kidding....I kid

    Parent
    Well, I'm glad to know (none / 0) (#132)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:32:50 PM EST
    that the world survives.......

    But watching all the "play dates" and structured games persuades me that the new generations will have missed a lot of important things.

    Parent

    kids today... (none / 0) (#136)
    by CST on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:37:29 PM EST
    i know what you mean kinda.  I'm still amused by all the new playgrounds that are spongy and injury-proof.  I used to burn the bejesus out of my butt going down that metal slide to the asphalt pavement.  It sure did fly though...

    Parent
    yes! when I think of the playgrounds we used (none / 0) (#144)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:49:33 PM EST
    with the hot metal slides, gravel under the 10 foot monkey bars, which were also hot metal....

    We played at construction sites too.

    Well, there were a couple of broken arms as I recall.

    Parent

    Construction sites... (none / 0) (#147)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:00:56 PM EST
    were the best playgrounds...hell yeah.  And if we got hurt, our parents wouldn't sue, we deserved it.

    Parent
    Exactly (none / 0) (#150)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:03:03 PM EST
    My parents would be happy the construction people did not sue us for messing around in their site.

    Parent
    dirt clod and/or rock fights, (none / 0) (#154)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:06:53 PM EST
    treehouses built 20-30 feet in the air by people 12 and under... the wooden 2x4s nailed to the trees as ladders.

    Heh. Back then, my mom would say, "go outside and play and don't come home until I call you!"

    I guess child protective services would be all over that now.

    Parent

    Yup - we had some great tree forts too (none / 0) (#158)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:13:19 PM EST
    The only kid I've seen in a tree in 30 years is my own nephew.

    Parent
    I don't know what this says about me (none / 0) (#162)
    by CST on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:35:34 PM EST
    as I'm not a kid... but the last time I climbed a tree was about a month ago.  And the month before that I was in another tree.

    We had a sort of tree fort (slabs of wood nailed into a tree) when we were kids.  I tried to climb that too recently but it was rotted through...

    Parent

    We're two peas in a pod... (none / 0) (#165)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:49:40 PM EST
    I still climb trees every chance I get...it's like they call out to me and I cannot resist their charms.

    Parent
    Me TOo! (none / 0) (#189)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:32:04 PM EST
    at the last Druid council (none / 0) (#190)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:38:38 PM EST
    meeting pay trees were discussed

    Parent
    Money Trees? (none / 0) (#191)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:39:51 PM EST
    no no (none / 0) (#193)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:42:36 PM EST
    pay trees.  like pay toilets.  

    Parent
    happy hour has arrived (none / 0) (#195)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:45:50 PM EST
    can you tell?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#196)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:47:42 PM EST
    I am not that sensitive... I guess..

    Parent
    Some people can't stand it when (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:33:24 AM EST
    others have a good time, and some people live in paralyzed fear and constant analysis of every bad thing that COULD happen.  Such people having bartenders arrested IMO should have their drivers license immediately revoked.  Nothing riskier than driving 50+ miles per hour head on at some other fallible human being coming directly toward you at 50+ miles per hour...nothing but luck standing between you and your own sudden death.  Nobody thinks about that and how people keep getting away with taking such inexusable risks :)  Well, except for me that is...but it took having a new baby in the car before I realized how nuts the real world is all the time.

    Parent
    I'm with ya on driving... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:37:08 AM EST
    it's really a wonder anybody makes it to old age in the age of the automobile, or as I like to call it...the death trap.

    You put yourself and others at more risk driving to work than these two bartenders with pyro skills could in a lifetime, imo.

    Parent

    As usual, there's more to the story. (none / 0) (#8)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:43:16 AM EST
    First, as has been pointed out here on TL may times before, reporters like to add the maximum jail times together despite the fact that if convicted the defendents essentially never get nor serve anywhere near that amount of time.

    Secondly, the moran bartenders apparently started a friggin' fire in the bar that night. Not suprisingly, starting fires in bars - even small fires that are quickly extinguished - is pretty heavily frowned upon.

    2 charged with setting fire at Jimmy's in Herndon

    Two men, one from Herndon and the other from Manassas, have been charged with multiple felonies in connection with an accidental fire at Jimmy's Old Towne Tavern in Herndon on Saturday, shortly after midnight.

    Fairfax County fire investigators charged Tegee Rogers, 33, of Herndon and Justin Fedorchak, 39, of Manassas each with three felonies; manufacturing and using and explosive device; setting a fire capable of spreading and burning or destroying a meeting house. They also were charged with several statewide fire prevention code misdemeanors.

    "Two employees were performing some sort of the entertainment that involved fire and it got out of hand," a fire and rescue spokesman said.

    Fire investigators said because it was discovered early, fire damage to the property is only estimated at $200. Both subjects were released on a $1,000 bond.

    Of course they should not, and will not, get 45 years.

    Parent
    Well, we know who called it in now :) (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:45:36 AM EST
    or helped put out, the fire.

    Parent
    Accidents happen... (none / 0) (#10)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 11:52:28 AM EST
    I don't wanna live in a country where bartenders can't breath a little fire...sounds like an awful place.

    Parent
    I think that (none / 0) (#15)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:05:39 PM EST
    if the owner of the bar was not upset and the damage was small and nobody was hurt, the fire marshals over-reacted.  I'm sure that restaurants which serve cherries flambe and other such dishes have had small fires start on occasion, and I don't think that the chefs are ever charged with "manufacturing an explosive device."
    Get back!  Clear the building!  The cherries are about to blow!   ;-)

    Parent
    Fairfax county has to be one of the worse (none / 0) (#16)
    by BTAL on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:06:11 PM EST
    areas for LEO and govt strong arm tactics.

    Otherwise it is a great place to live (well except for the costs, taxes, traffic....)  

    Parent

    I never thought of a bar (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 12:14:11 PM EST
    as a "meeting house."  But, of course, it is.  

    Parent
    Pub aka Public House (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:23:02 PM EST
    off topic (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:46:53 PM EST
    if my responses to you sometimes seem sharp it is because I sometimes confuse your screen name with another that I loath.

    just an fyi
    :-)

    Parent

    new favorite site (none / 0) (#53)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:17:48 PM EST
    sad disgusting depressing (none / 0) (#100)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 01:55:02 PM EST
    U.S. still holds detainee Pentagon wanted freed in 2004

    An emotionally ill detainee still being held at the U.S. detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was first recommended for release by the Pentagon in 2004, according to a federal judge whose ruling ordering that the man be freed was made public this week.
    Despite the Pentagon's recommendation, it wasn't until 2007 that the Bush administration adopted the military assessment and put Adnan Abdul Latif, now about 34, on an approved transfer list. By then, however, the issue of transferring prisoners to Yemen, Osama bin Laden's ancestral homeland, was mired in a diplomatic standoff over whether the Arabian Peninsula nation could provide security assurances and rehabilitate suspected radicalized Guantanamo detainees.
     Kennedy first ordered the Obama administration to arrange for Latif's release "forthwith'' on July 21. But a Justice Department spokesman, Dean Boyd, said government lawyers were still deciding Tuesday night whether to appeal to a higher court.

    "Why they continue to defend holding him is unfathomable," said David Remes, Latif's free-of-charge attorney. "Adnan's case reflects the Obama administration's complete failure to bring the Guantanamo litigation under control."

     Latif's lawyer said the Yemeni has spent long periods of his captivity in the Guantanamo psychiatric ward after repeated suicide attempts and reacted with despair to the judge's ruling.

    "He sees death as his only way out," Remes said.



    Very sad. (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 02:27:29 PM EST
    See Digby today re Saudi prince who is major owner of a news org. in U.S.  Scare tactics from conservative media financed by "one of them."

    Parent
    Wahhabis Don't Like Sufis (none / 0) (#149)
    by squeaky on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:02:35 PM EST
    The irony is great. Wahhabis (Sunnis, Saudis) are the rightwing's favored group... Wahhabis are the sect of OBL, and the sect of 9/11 terrorists.

    Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal is a Wahhabi, Cordoba House Imam Feisal Abdul Raul, is a Sufi.

    Sufis are about as non-violent as you can get. A mystical Sunni sect that has been oppressed by everyone including their Muslim brethren.

    An added dimension to the hatred...


    Parent

    Ataturck considered them a threat (none / 0) (#164)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:45:17 PM EST
    to "homeland security."

    Parent
    It's too rich ain't it... (none / 0) (#151)
    by kdog on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 03:03:30 PM EST
    Newt railing against his boss, who won't allow churches in his country.

    I bet he's got no qualms with cashing his checks though...lol.

    Parent

    Release of the Lockerbie Bomber (none / 0) (#176)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:47:56 PM EST
    has made people suspicious...

    Parent
    to bad (none / 0) (#179)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:56:00 PM EST
    this poor schmuck doesnt have BP to go to bat for him I guess.

    Parent
    sports fans (none / 0) (#169)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 04:09:22 PM EST
    this commercial made coffee come out my nose this morning

    Cowboys vs Redskins

    speaking of sports (none / 0) (#181)
    by CoralGables on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:00:44 PM EST
    has there been any commenting at TL on the firing of radio personality Renee Gork, a mother of two with the audacity to wear a Gator cap in Fayetteville.

    Parent
    speaking of commercials (none / 0) (#183)
    by vicndabx on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:06:05 PM EST
    orbitz has some funny ones too:

    Exclamations

    Lint Licker

    I gotta say, youtube is one of the best things about the web.

    Parent

    Is it possible to wish Happy Birthday to (none / 0) (#186)
    by BTAL on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:18:06 PM EST
    a Constitutional Amendment?

    If so, today's the 90th birthday of the 19th.

    FWIW

    if only they (none / 0) (#188)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:21:16 PM EST
    could have allowed them to vote but not drive.

    KIDDING!!

    Parent

    My problem is the absolute veto (none / 0) (#194)
    by BTAL on Wed Aug 18, 2010 at 05:43:46 PM EST
    power welded by Mrs. BTAL.

    Plurality, my azz.

    Parent