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Tuesday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 08:51:48 PM EST
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There was another Republican debate tonight. The hopeful candidates called for more terror laws and extension of the Patriot Act. I didn't watch, did Newt ask for a law sentencing terrorists to life plus cancer?

Oregon Governor John Kitzhaber has imposed a moratorium on the death penalty for the remainder of his term. He says he is morally opposed to it. He regrets that two executions took place during his term. Gary Haugen was scheduled to be killed in two weeks.

In addition to Frontline's A Perfect Terrorist (see here), it's performance night on The X-Factor. Simon Cowell says no one has invited him to their home for Thanksgiving yet.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Frontline Documentary on David Coleman Headley | Pre-Thanksgiving Open Thread >

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    Tuesday Night Open Thread | 187 comments (187 topical)
    I did hear Gingrich via NPR stating (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 08:54:43 PM EST
    if a terrorist tries to bring a nuclear weapon into the U.S., no holds barred, U.S. Constitution inapplicable, etc.  Has anyone tried to do this?  Did I miss something

    If (none / 0) (#5)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:43:32 PM EST
    someone "brings" a nuke into this country (which is already pretty laden with nukes) I think that Gingrich and the rest of us can pretty well kiss our keisters g'bye.

    Parent
    ha! Many are for doing all of that for a lot less (none / 0) (#9)
    by ruffian on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:55:43 PM EST
    than nukes. What was in that guy's underwear?

    Parent
    We only know half the answer... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 11:06:01 PM EST
    If a terrorist had tried and was caught by a couple of poor helpless authority addicted citizens, he would have been kicked and beaten to the ground on the spot, end of story except for the part where the Feds show up to take credit and pose for pictures.

    On the other hand, if the nefarious plot were discovered by the Feds, they would have watched him for a couple of years, trying to make a conspiracy out of a molehill, waiting until the very last (45) minutes to charge in on their black helicopters and wheel out the waterboards.


    Parent

    Actually Newt weighed in with (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:51:03 AM EST
    a rather good answer re illegal immigrants. He said first close the border and then allow those who have been here for years paying taxes and staying out of trouble to become citizens. He also said we shouldn't deport people who were brought here by their parents as children and are in school, etc.

    He said he was prepared to take the heat over it.

    Not bad but he just lost his last chance at the nomination. I hate that in the sense I would love to see Newt and Obama in a debate.

    Parent

    the thought of such a debate (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:17:49 AM EST
    makes me shudder.  The idea that anyone would believe either of them to be sincere....yikes.
    With Obama you really have to watch what he does rather than listen to what he says, so you might just as well shut the sound off.  With Newt, well, he changes his mind way more than he changes his wives. Again, you might as well turn off the sound.  Glee reruns,or perhaps a Bill Clinton/some brainy republican mash up would be a better idea.

    Parent
    Did he explain how he proposes to (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:15:14 AM EST
    close the border?  

    Parent
    It's just like a faucet... (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:20:56 AM EST
    you just turn the knob....right? LOL

    Odd that...human beings lacking in such basic understanding of human wants and needs.

    Parent

    You know, it has been explained time and time (none / 0) (#98)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:40:29 AM EST
    and time again.

    Boots on the ground and technology.

    Very simple, very doable and cost effective when we consider the savings from "no more illegal immigrants."

    kdog, you gotta give up on this "people's wants."

    Everyone wants. But everyone isn't entitled to come across the border, illegally, and create problems.

    Parent

    But people are entitled... (none / 0) (#101)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:42:18 AM EST
    to draw lines and create problems?  

    Parent
    Yeah. They are (none / 0) (#108)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:54:20 AM EST
    entitled to draw lines.... Been doing so since day 1...

    Allows groups of like interest and culture to get together.. ala countries... aka nations.

    Problems start when other groups want what the other groups have... Read "The Contested Plains" and "The Celts" for an overview of what happens when this happens.

    Parent

    Day One... (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:56:01 AM EST
    was no lines...those that crossed the Bering Strait never passed through customs, afaik.

    Parent
    The first white men to come over (5.00 / 4) (#113)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:03:09 PM EST
    here didn't wait in lines, go through customs, or get rounded up and sent back to Europe for crossing illegally, either.  In retrospect, I'm sure that the Native Americans wish that they had enforced immigration far, far more strictly and kept those troublesome, pushy, thieving and murderous Europeans out.  ;-)

    Parent
    Yeah, I'm sure the NA's (1.00 / 5) (#120)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:19:24 PM EST
    who were engaged in ripping out hearts in human sacrifice, engaging in cannibalism......

    didn't want to be bothered.

    Parent

    like Texas? (none / 0) (#111)
    by CST on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:59:53 AM EST


    Parent
    By "create problems" do you mean (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:44:37 AM EST
    commit felonies unrelated to being undocumented?  

    Parent
    techonology? (none / 0) (#110)
    by CST on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:58:58 AM EST
    I don't think that word means what you think it means.

    Here's a hint, it's not magic.

    What technology are you thinking of?  Drones?  Cameras?  Elecric Shock?  Robots that can tell whether you are mexican or not?

    It's incredibly simple and doable when you don't think about it at all.

    Parent

    Since you seem to know (none / 0) (#119)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:17:28 PM EST
    nothing about it, you can explain it.

    ;-)

    Parent

    Perhaps he left that (none / 0) (#84)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:23:20 AM EST
    exercise to the imaginations of the listeners.  I'm thinking tall, tall fence topped with razor wire, moats filled with alligators, black helicopters, and unmanned drones.  OH, and land mines.  With Newt, who knows?    ;-)

    Parent
    Moats filled with... (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:25:10 AM EST
    alligators with laser-beams attached to their heads...Mr. Bigglesworth!!!

    Parent
    Wow, kdog (none / 0) (#204)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 03:45:53 PM EST
    Little early to be Salvia-ating, isn't it???

    Lol! ;-)

    Parent

    As a Georgian (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:15:19 AM EST
    no you really don't want to see Obama and Newt in a debate. Obama isn't the greatest debater for sure but Newt is so full of hot air that one pin prick will completely deflate him. He's another example of a very good grifter.

    Parent
    If only...... (5.00 / 3) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:17:44 AM EST
    If only Obama could be a prick to just one Republican

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:20:25 AM EST
    but Obama probably wouldn't even have to prick Gingrich. Gingrich has a large talent for shooting himself in the foot.

    Parent
    Make Gingrich the VP ... (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:32:15 AM EST
    candidate so we can have the Biden v. Gingrich debate.  Ninety minutes of boredom punctuated by several seconds of hilarious gaffs.

    Parent
    You win (none / 0) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:22:35 AM EST


    Parent
    Yeah we know (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:36:53 AM EST
    all Repubs bad...

    lol

    Parent

    Not my boy Ronnie... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:39:42 AM EST
    well at least not all bad:)

    Caught a clip of the debate on the morning news with Paul sh*tting on the Un-Patriot Act...shocking I know, Ron Paul getting tv time, but I pinched myself, I wasn't dreaming.

    Parent

    That's what I used to say Jim (none / 0) (#178)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:10:57 PM EST
    Now I say all Republicans are nuts.

    Parent
    Maybe not ALL, ... (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by cymro on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:25:06 PM EST
    ... but at least all those who have the temerity express their views in public in an effort to try to lead the party. The ones who are not nuts are just afraid to speak up, I think -- especially during election season.

    Parent
    Summary of the Republican debates: (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:43:00 PM EST
    Romney: old: reinforced,  more plastic than in Tupperware, new: Mitt is both his first and middle name.
    Perry: demonstrated, once again, that he has less brainpower than is in Rahm's missing middle finger.
    Cain: a new foreign policy 9/9/9:  hit Iran with 9 bombs, at 9 sites, 9 times. But, to his credit, he has given Wolf Blitzer a new nickname that is likely to stick: "Blitz".
    Paul:  proved a crazy out-lyer: he made some sane comments.
    Bachman: seemed a version of Admiral Stockdale.
    Santorum: showed that he is equally comfortable bashing muslims as he is gays.
    Huntsman: the Mormon candidate that has experienced travel beyond teenage mission duty.
    Gingrich: sorry, fell down on the job as I could not get out of my mind thinking that this is what Anderson Cooper might look like if he, tragically, was pulled from the East River after ten days.

    Can (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:47:17 PM EST
    you imagine how ape-sh*t everyone would be here if someone was running for office in Iran 'or anywhere) on a platform of bombing the US?

    Parent
    But that (none / 0) (#14)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:15:27 PM EST
    would mean he was crazy.

    Parent
    I see that you have never heard (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:54:46 AM EST
    of Iran or a guy named bin Ladin.

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by lentinel on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:04:54 AM EST
    a making quite a leap there.

    OBL was not a candidate running for office, soliciting votes on a platform of destruction of the USA. (Indeed, OBL was quoted as saying that his interest was in destroying our economy - and considering the help he received from Bush and the compliant rabbits in the Democratic party, he appears to accomplished his goal.)

    Neither has Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad used as a platform a stated aim to drop bombs on us. In fact, he had denied that he has an interest in doing so. You may think differently, but he is not running on a platform of bombing us.

    We, on the other hand, have candidates running for public office, singing, "bomb Iran, bomb Iran".

    As I said, can you imagine our reaction if a candidate of a nuclear power, or even a potential nuclear power, were running on a platform of bombing us? ---- we would freak.

    I wonder how this bs from the repubs feels to people over there.

    Parent

    I don't mean to be (none / 0) (#112)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:00:23 PM EST
    nasty, but your view is naive.

    Parent
    I don't mean to be nasty either, ... (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by cymro on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:36:11 PM EST
    ... but why not actually address the point in lentinel's comment, rather than evading it with an ad hominem response?

    Parent
    I did address it. (none / 0) (#203)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:44:05 PM EST
    I find his position naive.

    And that isn't an attack.

    Parent

    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:09:07 AM EST
    for reminding me of the fact that the GOP would probably get us involved in yet another quagmire were they at the helm. Trying to control the world has never worked long term.

    Parent
    Obama seems to be ... (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:36:57 AM EST
    doing a pretty good job of keeping the endless war train rolling.  And he wins a Nobel Peace Prize in the process.  He's so awesome.

    Parent
    Do you ever notice (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:42:12 AM EST
    that fearmongering only works on not very bright people?

    Parent
    I wish that were the case (none / 0) (#135)
    by MKS on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:01:02 PM EST
    Fear based decisions can come from otherwise bright minds.....

    Parent
    Bachmann (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 08:47:34 AM EST
    made one of the few smart comments of the evening.  Were you making a sandwich?
    No, I know you were reaching for humor here.  Funny comments.

    Parent
    Best summation of any GOP debate this year (none / 0) (#7)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:50:15 PM EST
    But I'm going to start referring to you as Keys "Andy Bororwitz" Dan.

    Parent
    Thanks, but no Andy B., (none / 0) (#19)
    by KeysDan on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 11:00:01 PM EST
    its just that with this gang, it is like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Parent
    You mean like the people (none / 0) (#114)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:06:34 PM EST
    who ignored Hitler? Who ignored the asymmetrical war that was going on prior to 9/11??

    Yep. No doubt they had their heads where the sun don't shine.

    Parent

    WTF? (none / 0) (#117)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:12:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Jim is really going over the top today (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:25:19 PM EST
    Upthread he just declared Native Americans to be cannibals.  Might be best to just ignore him today.  Maybe he'll wind himself down.

    Parent
    he does make it hard (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by CST on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:58:29 PM EST
    since I hate letting nonsense go unchecked, but I think you're right.  I could waste a lot of time and 20 posts later I realize I've been arguing with a brick wall.

    No offense to brick walls.

    Parent

    So very sorry (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:04:45 PM EST
    about your cousin, Donald.  I am sending all my good thoughts, prayers, and positive energy her way.  I still cannot wrap my head around why so many people think that health insurance provided by for-profit companies is the way to go.  The insurance companies exist to make a profit for the share-holders.  In order to make a profit, they must maximize money coming in, and minimize money being paid out.  That doesn't even necessarily make them inherently bad or evil- it is their fiduciary responsibility to their owners (share-holders), and if their executives do not maximize profits, they'll be heaved out and others would be hired in their place.  But it's a stinking, p!ss poor way to provide for health care, that's for sure.  

    Parent
    Oh no (none / 0) (#145)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:22:08 PM EST
    I'm so sorry to hear this Donald.  It's just wrong on so many levels.

    Parent
    You again demonstrate your (none / 0) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:36:15 PM EST
    lack of knowledge about my positions. I have commented numerous times here on TL that I am for a single payer health care system modeled on Medicare.

    I mean, really. Are we going to fast for you?

    Parent

    Eh? (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by cymro on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:44:01 PM EST
    Are we going to fast for you?

    What would be the point of fasting, and how does that relate to the health care system?

    Parent

    too fast (none / 0) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:36:44 PM EST


    Parent
    I bet Jim is just ... (5.00 / 0) (#140)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:12:03 PM EST
    burning off calories in an effort to clear enough space for a few extra helpings of Turkey tomorrow.

    Parent
    Yes, he was responding to (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:55:12 PM EST
    my comment, and I chose not to answer it.  It was way too over-the-top, and others did a far better job than I would have replying to him.  I think he's watched The Last of the Mohicans one too many times.

    Parent
    You done good. (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:06:48 PM EST


    Parent
    In my pal Jim's defense... (4.00 / 1) (#127)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:42:48 PM EST
    I'm sure several Wall St. CEO's are native to this continent...and their cannibalistic tendencies are well known.

    Parent
    You need to study (1.00 / 1) (#146)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:22:57 PM EST
    about the Carib Indians.

    Didn't you learn anything in American History???

    Parent

    That's backtracking (5.00 / 0) (#158)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:39:59 PM EST
    And half a$$ed backtracking at that.
    ... Carib Indians.
    Don't pretend that you didn't write what you wrote.

    Parent
    Backtracking?? (1.00 / 1) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:30:10 PM EST
    I gave you a link and SUO gave you links and you act like you can't read.

    Parent
    Don't pretend (none / 0) (#196)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:34:08 PM EST
    you didn't write what you wrote.

    Parent
    Some interesting reading: (none / 0) (#139)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:11:28 PM EST
    Researchers Divided Over Whether Anasazi Were Cannibals

    Native American Cannibalism

    Parent

    Hey, stop talking $h*t about the East River! (none / 0) (#13)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:14:40 PM EST


    Parent
    I liked Admiral Stockdale! (none / 0) (#18)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:44:26 PM EST
    here's one of his lesser known quotes:

    "Entitlement and privilege corrupt."

    At least he was savvy enough to ask, "Who am I? Why am I here?"

    Doesn't mean i wanted him for vice pres or pres, though...

    Parent

    Stockdale reminded me of (none / 0) (#20)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 11:02:43 PM EST
    the befuddled old admiral on Get Smart.

    Parent
    Come on Jeff (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:57:08 AM EST
    We all know those were framing questions used to introduce himself.

    And he couldn't have been worse than Algore.

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:11:52 AM EST
    The guy who constantly defends a president who was such a disaster he left office with a 19% approval rating (lowest ever recorded). The facts show that no one could have been worse than George W. Bush despite all the denials of republicans to the contrary. The funny thing is all the predictions that Gore made about Bush have been proven right. Gore said that Bush would destroy the country and the economy and he was has certainly been proven right on that account.

    Parent
    Quit making things up, GA (none / 0) (#105)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:44:41 AM EST
    I  merely point out that until the Democrats took control of both Houses of Congress in 2007....long before Obama hoped and changed his way into most people's lives...the economy was doing well.

    Of course it didn't take your bunch but 17 months to burst the housing bubble, drive oil prices to record highs, destroy the stock market and wreck the economy.

    Now tell me. You wanna defend that????????

    Parent

    Oh, yeah (5.00 / 0) (#167)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:55:34 PM EST
    I've heard that excuse before. I don't see you tea partiers taking any responsibility for the current economic situation since you took over congress do I?

    Things started collapsing in 2006 and that's why the GOP lost congress in the 2006 elections. Somehow the GOP got everything they wanted and then when the economy started collapsing they are blaming someone else. Of course, I'm not surprised because Republicans always blame someone else.

    Just like the buck stops with Obama now it stopped with Bush for his entire term a president. Have you ever thought there might be a reason the GOP wanted Bush to "stay off the radar" until after the 2010 elections?

    Excuses, excuses, excuses and pass the buck, pass the buck and pass the buck are all the GOP has to offer because if they took responsibility they would have to admit fact that their policies are a miserable failure.  

    Parent

    don't faint (none / 0) (#79)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:09:21 AM EST
    but I'm going to say something nice (maybe) about stockdale.

    While he came across as a guy not quite recovered from a coma, if my memory serves me correctly, he was much, much more than the befuddled caricature we all saw on T.V.

    No time searching for links right now, but I remember being extremely impressed with Stockdale's history. The items that stuck out in my mind were some acts of bravery; acts of bravery of the Oh-My-God! Really? Stockdale? Variety.

    Never thought of him as Mr. Fuddy Duddy again.

    Gotta run, but maybe someone here can do a little search and we'll know if it was Stockdale, or me, who was nuts.

    p.s. (I think it was me)

    Parent

    He was president of (none / 0) (#85)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:24:00 AM EST
    The Citadel for almost 2 years, fired for wanting to make changes.

    He didn't seem so bright during the debate, but he wrote some thought-provoking books. Also, he stated that the second night of the Tonkin incident there was nothing in the water except the US ships. The first night, he had fired on torpedo boats.

    His POW time was horrific, including lots of torture.

    Well, enough here, i didn't (and still don't) know a lot about the man. He was selected as a VP candidate and participated n the debate having never met PErot face-to-face, though.

    Parent

    I think I'm (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:26:41 PM EST
    pretty smart and fairly competent at articulating my positions.  But put me on TV and I'm pretty sure that none of that would be apparent.  

    Stockdale was a man of great accomplishment.  Looking good on TV, however,  wasn't in his skill set.  I don't think that's so bad.  Especially when we see some of the gasbags now who come off as Very Serious Persons on TV.

    Parent

    Interesting piece on "All Things (none / 0) (#192)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:28:59 PM EST
    Considered" re Gingrich, going back to his teaching days.  One of his teaching colleagues sd. Gingrich's greatest strength is his ability to stay on point when speaking in public--concise, non-wavering.  

    Parent
    He only received the Medal of Honor and was (none / 0) (#88)
    by coast on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:28:53 AM EST
    one one of the most decorated naval officers, ever.  But why should that matter?

    Parent
    Details details (none / 0) (#115)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:07:43 PM EST
    (sarcasm alert)

    Parent
    I knew it! (none / 0) (#116)
    by NYShooter on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:08:42 PM EST
    thanks

    btw, why the wisecrack?

    Oh, and thanks to my bud, Jeff

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#186)
    by coast on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:17:06 PM EST
    Wisecrack was in response to shoephone's comment of a "befuddled old admiral on Get Smart", not towards your comment.

    Parent
    Charlie Pierce called it (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 08:46:44 AM EST
    "A Very Special Holiday Episode of Who Wants to Be a Pinochet?"

    I loved the 'Blitz' moment.

    Parent

    Here's our beautiful planet... (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by desertswine on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:35:12 PM EST
    Please enjoy it before the Crazies blow us out of the Solar System.

    I saw that the oher day, DS (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 07:29:33 AM EST
    You can tell it's fake, because if you look really closely you'll find yourself puzzled and asking "Where'd all the national border lines go? And the electric fences topped with razor wire coils? And the billions of crazed terrists with knives in their teeth? I don't see even one of them swimming across those oceans. Or any predator drones flying around, either."

    All I see there is a nice looking warm and peaceful planet. An obvious fantasyland.

    They think we were all born yesterday? Sheesh. I'm tellin' ya - NASA hasn't fooled me for one second with this.

    If it was real footage there would be a huge 99% spot in continent high letters right in the middle of it.

    Now here's a REAL photo of earth from space...

    Parent

    We know where you are! (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by dead dancer on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 07:58:09 AM EST

    Phone tracking

    Car tracking

    My husband said that the malware (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:33:51 AM EST
    attached to Droid apps is insane and people are just now discovering that.  I'm lucky if I can answer my damned phone properly though.  No risk of my Droid having malware.

    Parent
    Oh, cute. Not. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Zorba on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:45:13 AM EST
    Why not just get it over with and implant a microchip in all of us at birth so that the government and the stores can track us our entire lives?  (/snark)

    Parent
    The insanity continues (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:31:41 AM EST
    AIG sues the government for $25B because it was unconstitutional to have taken them over and they did not receive fair bailout treatment when compared to other entities.  Also this....

    The company, which is run by former AIG head Maurice "Hank" Greenberg and was AIG's largest shareholder during the takeover, also filed a companion suit against the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

    What sort of suit is that? Is that a Tim Geithner sucked really bad at his job suit?

    MF Global clients are now missing twice as much money we think.  Right now it seems that $1.2B in client funds is missing. And some fear that Jon Corzine may lead to the destruction of the commodities market if the clients aren't made whole.  Made whole with what though?

    Oxymoronic term of the year,,, (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:44:43 AM EST
    "fair bailout treatment"...knee slapper!

    Somebody rob an old lady's cupboard to make these investors whole immediately!


    Parent

    We are at the Mother Hubbard stage though (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:57:56 AM EST
    Some kid in uniform on my facebook posed for the 1% of the 99% photo op.  And he wrote on his paper how he is working hard and he has a job, he will have his college paid for and then go onto his job that is currently promised to him.  He claims that this is his future because instead of whining he went to work.  I had to explain to him what RIF is (reduction in force).  The plans are in, so whatever promised job he thinks he has right now....fugetaboutit.

    I also explained to him that should he choose to attempt to retire out of the military instead, he will not get the retirement that we are getting because the rich guys stole it all and apparently he fights for them to continue to do so.  The last time they jerked military retirement though we couldn't retain the people we needed to retain.  That was in the 80s.  With so many contractors being the norm though now who knows what's going to happen to the next generation standing on the wall.  Phuck are they stupid though sometimes.

    I was kind.  I didn't rip him harsh, it sure is annoying though.  Put your attitude down kid before you blow your own self up.  This is America, we are in this together and there are only degrees of being used and abused now.

    Parent

    MT, you don't know if the job will (none / 0) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:06:51 AM EST
    be there or not. Why are you trying to tear down this kid's plans??

    I had to explain to him what RIF is (reduction in force).  The plans are in, so whatever promised job he thinks he has right now....fugetaboutit.

    BTW - If he isn't career, he won't care if he is RIFed.

    Parent

    yeah....my words on facebook can tear (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:12:33 AM EST
    down his plans.  He's a young fool out of his young gonna live forever mind like about half of them are.  When you get old though and you've got nothing, you get a whole lot smarter just a little too late.  I'm a good parent.  I don't need to prey upon the stupidity of my children (any of them whoever they may be) in order to get more than my fair share.  Tear his plans down....indeed.  Who knew that denial was a working plan?

    Parent
    He wasn't talking about (none / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:24:01 PM EST
    staying in the military. You have no idea as to who and what has been promised him.

    And no one appointed you world wide momma.

    Parent

    Another oxy... (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:23:16 AM EST
    "government promise".

    Kid is right ya gotta handle your business cuz nobody else will...what I get a kick out of is the kid's chosen line of work is downright socialist, which doesn't seem to jive with MT's descript of his opinions.  Starting your own mercenary army would be more in line with the ideology, or applying at Blackwater.  Right now the kid is on our teet...and can't speak for anybody else but I sure as hell don't need another soldier on the payroll.

    Parent

    I got a kick out of that too (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:42:01 AM EST
    He chose the most socialist job around and now brags that he is a successful capitalist :)  I didn't want to get mean though.

    Parent
    Taxpayers intentionally walk him... (5.00 / 3) (#73)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:46:06 AM EST
    and he thinks he hit a single...alotta that going around.

    Parent
    But... (none / 0) (#74)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:53:43 AM EST
    he has bootstraps, and he pulls hard, right?

    Parent
    With such cockiness (none / 0) (#76)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:58:08 AM EST
    My husband would doubt he pulls that hard.  Somehow he missed the protect America gene and got the taunt the civilians gene.  It seems the cocky ones are the ones that everyone with them must whip a bit when it comes down to the real time to pull.  The ones that often look at the tops of their boots and doubt they are worthy, they usually pull like hell.

    Parent
    Hoo boy... (none / 0) (#78)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:00:52 AM EST
    Sounds like he's got lots to prove.... :-/

    Parent
    So, 0 F with a 15kph wind (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by observed on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:11:19 AM EST
    really isn't so bad. Nope, not bad at all.
    Just fine.

    And, work is shaping up to be a Bend in the River kind of week.

    So exactly what do the Occupiers WANT, anyway? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:33:20 AM EST
    The 99% Declaration
    WHEREAS THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION PROVIDES THAT:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    BE IT RESOLVED THAT:

    WE, THE NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, in order to form a more perfect Union, by, for and of the PEOPLE, shall elect and convene a NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY beginning on July 4, 2012 in the City Of Philadelphia to prepare and ratify a PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES on behalf of the 99% of United States citizens.

    [snip] [snip] [specific details in here] [snip] [snip]

    V. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that IF the PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES approved by the 870 Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY in consultation with the NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE, is not acted upon within a reasonable time and to the satisfaction of the Delegates of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY, said Delegates shall reconvene to utilize the grassroots network established in the election of the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY to organize a new INDEPENDENT POLITICAL PARTY to run candidates for every available Congressional seat in the mid-term election of 2014 and again in 2016 until all vestiges of the existing corrupt corporatocracy have been eradicated through the power of the ballot box.
    What do we want? Responsive government (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:58:06 PM EST
    Sad to say this has become a novel idea.

    I am all for it. I think this is a good outcome. The convention will focus attention on a discussion that people will find interesting and relevant, and much like the USA started. I'm sure some will find something to criticize and ridicule, but that is nothing new.

    Parent

    So government money isn't corrupt?? (none / 0) (#125)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:33:29 PM EST
    No candidate for Delegate to the NATIONAL GENERAL ASSEMBLY will be permitted to run on a party line or use any party label while running for or serving as a Delegate. No candidate or delegate may take private money from any source.

    Hey, capitalist cronyism at its very best!

    Parent

    What happens if the SC (none / 0) (#138)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:09:48 PM EST
    doesn't change its mind and if the people, acting through their state legislature, don't pass it?

    Abrogation of the "Citizens United" Case. The immediate abrogation, even if it requires a Constitutional Amendment, of the outrageous and anti-democratic Supreme Court holding in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission.
     

    Parent
    I would guess those state legislators (5.00 / 2) (#148)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:25:42 PM EST
    will find themselves with some unexpected opponents in their next elections. That's how this country works, right?

    Parent
    No Senate? No super majority? (none / 0) (#141)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:14:37 PM EST
    No way of keeping the majority from trampling on the views of the minority??

    The final vote ratifying the PETITION FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES shall be by simple majority vote by the 870 delegates and a duly elected chairperson of the National General Assembly shall determine the outcome of the final vote on ratification in the event of a tie.


    Parent
    Nope (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:24:33 PM EST
    Would you rather the votes be weighted by some factors? What would you suggest? Education? Assets?

    Parent
    Speaking for me... (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:13:01 AM EST
    I never thought for a second your positions regarding the chump-n-chief had anything to do with race.

    Nor do I think my beefs with the chump are unreasonable or personal...I've had the same beefs with his three chump cracker predecessors.  Well, the criminalization I take a little personal:)

    To keep these beefs to myself because the chump is black this time would be a disservice to all minorities, imo.

    I can understand minorities feeling a special kinship with our first minority president, though I must admit the concept is foreign to me, being a cracker...I feel more kinship with my black and hispanic neighbors than rich white dudes.  

    I have been thinking about this (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:25:39 AM EST
    because while the numbers for Obama amongst liberals generally are good and consistent with past democratic presidents at this stage, his numbers among blacks remain off the charts.  I read rants on another blog telling the world that this is because blacks are ignorant or blind, and I found it very offensive.  Blacks aren't idiots and are actually fairly politically savvy (there is a new study on this which makes the point that I can grab if necessary).  We can easily differentiate.  Not just between a Herman Cain and an Obama, but also between a Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, or an Obama and a Colin Powell, or a Colin Powell and an Alan Keyes. Or even between a John Lewis and an Obama.

    But it is a fair question to ask "why are minorities' perceptions of Obama so different.  I think it comes down to the 15% I referenced above.  In my parents house, they actively wondered how long Obama would stay alive in office, let alone accomplish anything. Once they got used to the fact that he wasn't going to be taken out by snipers on day 1, they still had a very grounded view of the landscape.  A liberal president in a country where foxnews is the most popular news source that never even believed the man was born here.  Despite the concept that liberals had wild expectations that were dashed, many liberals, and particularly minority liberals, had the opposite thought.  We believed that if Obama could pull off 25% of what he promised, he'd really be a miracle worker.

    We tend to think he's probably pulled off more than half of the things he said he'd do, which, by the standards we had, is a successful president.

    That's why the constant drone of "you think he's been a decent president because you are ignorant" is not only irritating, it betrays a lack of understanding of what the expectations of his most ardent supporters (the black community) really was.

    He's exceeded our expectations, avoided scandals (which all of us were terrified about . . . a huge scandal for a black president would have had massive ramifications), and done it generally with class.

    That's why most of us will proudly pull the lever again in 2012, despite the fact that he didn't full all or even most of his promises.

    We understood that he was never going to and that was just fine.

    Parent

    The soft bigotry of low expectations? (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:31:52 AM EST


    Parent
    Not really (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:36:17 AM EST
    I think we had a weird phenomena of unreasonably high expectations because Obama and his team are very, very good marketers.

    Every politician goes out and tells the voters that he can change the world, but Obama was almost too good at it.

    I don't think the african american community ever bought into that.  Their expectations were way more realistic and hence they weren't disappointed.

    Parent

    ABG...the man has gotten (5.00 / 5) (#107)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:52:46 AM EST
    everything that he wanted.  He gave his "opponents" more than they were even going to ask for time and time again.  Please stop playing the race card trying to justify where we currently are at in several serious messes.

    Parent
    MT, i have always disliked (none / 0) (#144)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:19:44 PM EST
    the phrase "playing the race card" because it suggests that African Americans who call white racists out for acts & attitudes of white racism are exercising some kind of special privilege - i don't think we even need the term "race" - the term "racism" has the whole subject covered

    that said, i agree that Obama "got everything he wanted and gave his 'opponents' more than they were even going to ask for time and time again"

    i respect the fact of the hurt feelings that the Angry One reports, & i find some parts of his comment thoughtful

    but hurt feelings cannot stand in for political analysis

    Parent

    MT -- I don't think (none / 0) (#151)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:29:03 PM EST
    ABG played the race card here.  While he purports to speak for the whole African American community, that's a different issue than playing the race card.

    Parent
    But he said that the black community (none / 0) (#164)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:52:58 PM EST
    had low expectations of what Obama was capable of because Obama was black.  Now I know that the people fighting Obama represent a swathe of racist constituents, but they fight Obama because he's a Democrat.  Obama is a Democrat first, or at least he's supposed to be.  Did Obama just roll over for the Conservatives because he's black and he is afraid of them for that reason?  It just blows my mind to ponder.  ABG says they all expected him to get sniped.  Now I didn't, I understand the Secret Service just a little bit.  But some of what ABG is saying doesn't hold up, at least not in my mind.  The space I inhabit though my spouse has had "black" generals even....he has one of those right now and the guy is superb.  Everybody loves him.  The "black" General is very gutsy and challenges the system too and gets so much done that General Sinclair never did, course General Sinclair was usually drunk :)

    Parent
    Did I mention he's an aviation General? (none / 0) (#168)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:56:28 PM EST
    Aviation, the petted and most beloved in the military....the elite....the people who always get A/C.  Our General is now "black", and he kicks ass every single day.

    Parent
    to be fair (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by CST on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:37:04 AM EST
    I think that could apply to every president.

    Parent
    Like I said... (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:32:05 AM EST
    I can understand that kinship, for lack of a better term...yet its foreign to me.

    Maybe I'll have a better understanding if we ever have a Lebanese Mick president who likes to smoke dope...I have a problem relating to any of these mofos on such a personal level.

    But I think you'd find the same phenomenon with women and Hillary if she had won.  

    I look forward to the day when all the firsts are out of the way, and we can make that leap to all simply being human beings.  We're closer, but not there yet.  

    Parent

    it's complicated (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by CST on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:43:31 AM EST
    on the one hand, as president, you automatically subject yourself to a certain level of criticism and scorn, and that just comes with the territory.  Constructive criticism and even scorn I think are very important to a functioning democracy.  We have to keep pushing those in power because they are never going to be perfect and they have to know that at the end of the day the people will hold them responsible for their actions.  If you want progress, you have to push.

    On the other hand, there is a certain strain of criticism that this president faces that is different from other presidents, that will incite a knee-jerk defense, because it's flat out bigotry.  And I imagine if Hillary, or another woman were president it would be a similar thing.  The problem is how do you mentally seperate that personal defense from political criticism.  I think that can be a hard line for anyone to walk when it comes to people they fundamentaly admire.

    And I think sometimes there is a certain level of denial on both sides, the one that says all criticism is political, and the one that says none of it is.  But the answer is somewhere in the middle, and figuring out where that lies is not easy.  So even when you have people who acknowledge it's in the middle you will have disagreements about where the line is.

    Parent

    CST (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:21:40 PM EST
    Completely agree with everything in this post, which is why I have been thinking about my own motivations  and evaluation of Obama.

    I have to admit that the reality is probably that I should be more critical.  Not "Obama is Mitt Romney" critical, but still.

    Parent

    Complicated indeed... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:16:55 PM EST
    some criticism is nothing more than veiled bigotry.  They start with hating on Obama and then find criticisms to back it up.

    Call me an optimist but I think it's a larger problem with the older set...our generation, for the most part, has evolved past these nonsensical hang-ups with race and gender...but I could be projecting.

    Parent

    How to give yourself an asthma attack (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:14:50 AM EST
    First buy one of these.  Notice that they make delicious chips without grease.  Also notice that salt won't stick to them once they are chipped so sprinkle lightly with salt before microwaving.

    This next part is key now.  Your desire to please your husband must trump common sense and your husband must like spicy food and decide to sprinkle the raw potato slices with cayenne pepper.  If this chip making technique takes a potato slice from raw to chip in 5 minutes imagine what it does to cayenne pepper.  It burns it, it vaporizes it.  The stink will send you running to the microwave and when you open the door an asthma attack is waiting for you.  Your house will also still stink horribly this morning and your chip maker will have been sort of torched when the cayenne started burning.

    File under you couldn't even make this up.

    If you were Dadler, you could sell this account. (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:29:23 AM EST
    Did you read Digby's Monday pepper spray piece?  The chart is priceless.  And her personal account re jalapenos.  

    Parent
    I missed it (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:33:51 AM EST
    I will go fetch it.  As I was gasping last night we were all asking ourselves with OWS going on and all the spraying and all the kitchen table discussion of pepper spraying....why did we pick this moment to be cayenne stupid?

    Parent
    Here: (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:39:13 AM EST
    Police, pain and peppers

    Parent
    Great piece (none / 0) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:42:08 AM EST
    I can hear her voice so clearly on the militarization of America.  

    Parent
    Duly noted. (none / 0) (#99)
    by coast on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:40:30 AM EST
    Hope the inhaler was nearby.

    Parent
    It was (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:44:34 AM EST
    Never really had an immediate vapor lock like that before.  I usually get plenty of notice what is going on.  Not that time.

    Parent
    Thanks for the perspective reminder ABG (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:29:05 PM EST
    I think most people have that 15% of forgiveness built in for certain pols, for whatever reasons, most not as valid as yours.

    I have seen for myself the workplace attitudes that attorney describes. I sub out to a large company that makes an effort to hire minorities, and I can tell you for a fact that he/you are correct about the attitudes of a disturbing number of the white coworkers. Until I came here I had no idea it was still that bad. So I understand that some kinds of attacks on Obama can be taken personally. I'm sure I would have some of that same reaction to attacks on a female POTUS.

    Of course on the other hand...having a reason for being a touch over-sensitive does mean you are not over-sensitive!

    gotta go for now...but good post.

    UC Davis Chancellor speak w/forked tongue: (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:54:22 PM EST
    LAT

    If she told them (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:43:49 PM EST
    not to use force, and they did, then why are only a couple of folks being singled out for suspension?

    Maybe from the chief down to the lieutenants dismissal proceedings for insubordination need to begin.

    Or maybe they did just what the pres wanted, and she's throwing them under the bus... sort of like someone else...

    Parent

    Who to believe? (none / 0) (#176)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:09:41 PM EST
    Will the cops talk?  Will they cover for her?

    Parent
    I bet the cops will talk--and refute (none / 0) (#179)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:13:01 PM EST
    her attempt at CYA.  She's is quite pathetic.

    Parent
    I hope so (none / 0) (#183)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:14:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Probably so (none / 0) (#195)
    by sj on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:33:44 PM EST
    She has given them the choice of passively playing scapegoat or defending themselves.*  I don't think that she --- and many, many others -- have grokked what it means when they are told that the "whole world is watching".  

    It was wishful thinking in the 60's.  Now it's an uncomfortable reality.

    -------------
    * Of course, she could be telling the truth, but I personally am not banking on that one.

    Parent

    How could she be telling the truth, given (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:35:55 PM EST
    her initial statement she was very proud of law enforcement at UC Davis re this incident?

    Parent
    Apropos of nothing... (5.00 / 0) (#163)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:47:20 PM EST
    here's a cute link: Moose A. Moose. Now, can we be thankful we still have the internet and TalkLeft?

    Where else do we get to fight like this?

    Ha. How did you stumble upon this gem? (none / 0) (#182)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:14:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Watching Noggin with my (none / 0) (#185)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:16:53 PM EST
    (then) 3-4 year old ;-)

    Parent
    Must have made a big and lasting (none / 0) (#187)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:18:15 PM EST
    impression.  My niece posting a different "gratitude" on her facebook page this week.  Sweet.  

    Parent
    Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries (none / 0) (#2)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:14:11 PM EST
    Pregnant Seattle protester miscarries after being kicked, pepper sprayed

    A woman who was pepper sprayed during during a raid on Occupy Seattle last week is blaming police after she miscarried Sunday.

    Jennifer Fox, 19, told The Stranger that she had been with the Occupy protests since they started in Westlake Park. She said she was homeless and three months pregnant, but felt the need to join activists during their march last Tuesday.

    "I was standing in the middle of the crowd when the police started moving in," Fox recalled. "I was screaming, `I am pregnant, I am pregnant. Let me through. I am trying to get out.'"

    She claimed that police hit her in the stomach twice before pepper spraying her. One officer struck her with his foot and another pushed his bicycle into her. It wasn't clear if either of those incidents were intentional.

    "Right before I turned, both cops lifted their pepper spray and sprayed me. My eyes puffed up and my eyes swelled shut," Fox said.

    Seattle Post-Intelligencer photographer Joshua Trujillo snapped a picture of Fox in apparent agony as another activist carried her to an ambulance.

    more here, with video...
    I read the same thing in The Stranger (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by shoephone on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:02:04 PM EST
    but, apparently, there are quite a few inconsistencies in her story.

    Parent
    Yeah I saw that article after I posted the comment (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:12:16 PM EST
    Seattle Times also is questioning the story...

    ...

    Also, police apparently shot a guy threatening Occupy Houston protesters with a .40-caliber rifle on Monday.

    Parent

    Suicide by cop? (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:53:22 AM EST
    After two bike officers ordered Twohig to drop the weapon, he refused and pointed the rifle at his own head.

    "Shoot me! Shoot me!" he shouted, according to police.



    Parent
    I don't think so (none / 0) (#205)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 05:32:14 PM EST
    Probably just your average really dumb wingnut.

    Parent
    Those (none / 0) (#3)
    by lentinel on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:41:00 PM EST
    dastardly Republicans. Trying to muscle in on Obama's territory.

    Calling for an extension of the patriot act.

    Don't they know that Obama are Holder have that issue already sewn up?  A.G. Holder, making the rounds, told us all that we need this bloody thing "more than ever".

    So what are the Republicans going to do to top that?
    Say that we need it more than ever more than ever?

    Make it permanent of course (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:13:58 PM EST
    so they don't have to waste valuable time debating and extending it?

    Parent
    "Now more than ever" was Nixon's jingle (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:16:46 PM EST
    What's next?

    "Gitmo - With Honor"  

    "The Only Thing We Have to Fear - is Less Illegal Surveillance"

    "If You Can't Stand the Unconstitutional, Get Out of the Justice Department"

    Parent

    They'll just continue to pretend ... (none / 0) (#58)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:14:35 AM EST
    that Obama is George McGovern.  And much of the Republican base will believe it.  Remember, Bachman said that under Obama the ACLU runs the CIA, and there was nary a peep from anyone about that.

    Parent
    The Statue of (none / 0) (#8)
    by Edger on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 09:51:21 PM EST
    Piker

    "Ohhhh say can you see?...." (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:03:35 PM EST
    See?  I can't see sh*t with all this pepper spray in my eyes.

    Parent
    The FCC is moving to block (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 10:16:31 PM EST
    the AT&T/T-Mobile merger, which is great news. But the key for me is that they're sending it first to an ALJ for fact finding and an initial determination (on whether the merger is in the public interest). On the one hand, I expect that will significantly delay the proceedings, which is probably good news. On the other, it could put appeal to the full FCC beyond next January. That's bad.

    Raise your hand if you think President Romney's FCC is going to block the merger?

    Hearing (none / 0) (#32)
    by jbindc on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 08:11:57 AM EST
    Is expected in February, right after DOJ trial

    Parent
    I said something about Gingrich (none / 0) (#22)
    by lilburro on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 11:13:17 PM EST
    wrt to Romney in a thread today...I think this quote is worth sharing again because this perfectly encapsulates why I find Gingrich so repellent (and Romney inasmuch as he reminds me of Newt):


    "It doesn't matter what I do," he answered. "People need to hear what I have to say. There's no one else who can say what I can say. It doesn't matter what I live."

    Ugh.  

    According to NPR today, Gingrich's (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Tue Nov 22, 2011 at 11:48:02 PM EST
    website has been edited to account for his marital history and what he did after Congress and b/4 this campaign.  But I don't see this info there.  

    Parent
    The debate (none / 0) (#25)
    by loveed on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 06:28:11 AM EST
     The meeting of Mit & Jon. The discussion about the troops in Afghanistan was priceless. Mit would lose in an one on one.
      Ron Paul & Huntsman seem to agree on a lot of issues. I noticed this in the last debate also. Cuts in defense spending,withdrawing troops from Afghanistan, protecting civil liberties, against increasing the power of the patriot act.
     The first hour of the debate Huntsman was given a lot of time. There was a lot of back and froth between him and Romney.
     Bachman did well.She really schooled Perry on Pakistan. Newt blew it with immigration. Santorum
    was invisible. Cain was like a fish out of water.
    Mit appeared heartless on immigration.
     They all appeared normal.Whether you agreed with them or not.
     Huntsman will be the nominee.

    who could have predicted that... (none / 0) (#26)
    by pluege2 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 06:29:42 AM EST
    who could have predicted that...

    fracking to capture natural gas would result in earthquakes that would damage nuclear reactors, causing nuclear meltdowns resulting in massive radioactive poisoning of the environment, humans, and all life over wide areas.

    who could have predicted?

    link? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Rojas on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 07:38:15 AM EST


    Parent
    I have a modest proposal for the advocates (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 07:55:23 AM EST
    of fracking - the oil company executives, lobbyists, media and political hacks and their supporters:  They all have to live in the fracked area.

    Parent
    Do you live where they are fracking? (none / 0) (#36)
    by TeresaInPa on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:24:48 AM EST
    I do.  So far so good.  Lots of people with farms who lived in the worst of rural poverty, suddenly have a pot to pee in.  So far, no problem with anyone's well water.  People who had no teeth for years suddenly have teeth. Towns that had no tax base left can fix the roof on the local grade school.  
    I don't know.  It is so easy for people with no skin in the game to go on about the evils of drilling.  They hardly ever consider the humans they are telling to "just shut up and stay poor".

    Parent
    I couldn't say one way or the other (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:37:21 AM EST
    But part of the problem is the secrecy that the frackers surround themselves in.  If everything is swell, why all the secrecy?  And where did the chemicals in the Wyoming aquifer come from?

    Parent
    It is also easy for advocates with no skin in the (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by ruffian on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 11:50:47 AM EST
    game besides their profit margins to go on about the benefits of drilling. I'm just asking them to put more skin in the game. Actual skin.

    Parent
    It's funny but it's not (none / 0) (#41)
    by vicndabx on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:50:35 AM EST
    People who had no teeth for years suddenly have teeth.


    Parent
    You shouldn't have to take (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:59:10 AM EST
    risks that could rob you of your safe place to live just to have teeth.  The American healthcare system, serving us well.

    Parent
    Oh good grief MT (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:03:03 AM EST
    It was an example. One of several describing the world of the rural poor.

    Parent
    and it's a very reasonable response (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by CST on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:05:02 AM EST
    that it's messed up that those are the choices people have to make.

    And that if we had a better system in place those kinds of choices wouldn't be necessary.

    Parent

    What's the good grief about? (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:06:19 AM EST
    I know, I shouldn't give a phuck about the stupid lazy poor people with no teeth.  That's just a normal part of life unless you are in France, or Canada, or the UK, or the Netherlands.  Good Grief yourself Jim!

    Parent
    That's the same (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:01:21 AM EST
    thing as the global warmers wanting carbon based fuel to become too expensive to use by the poor in the Third World.

    Of course in that case the UN has a plan for our rich to make our poor send money to their rich.... who might, just might, give a little to their poor.

    Parent

    From the Existentialist Cowboy (none / 0) (#27)
    by pluege2 on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 06:33:08 AM EST
    Being Forced to Work for Someone for Free is Called 'Slavery'

    When an elite controls the means of production and distribution and --at the same time and in various ways --depresses wages and worker rights, the effect is indistinguishable from slavery.

    those who enrich themselves, claiming for themselves all profits as well as special and/or unfair taxation or --worse--NO taxation whatsoever for themselves are, in effect, demanding that others work for them for free.

    A society in which just 1 percent alone has benefited from the labors of millions is a one-legged man and will fall! Americans are witnessing that fall right now.

    Music is Educational... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 09:01:26 AM EST
    Embarassed to say I never heard of the legend of Joaquin Murrieta, the Robin Hood of Mexico...till Dave Alvin & The Guilty Ones blew us away with this powerful song called "Murrieta's Head".

    Dave said it was the first time they played it live...after the standing O, my buddy screamed "ya might wanna think of playing that one again!"  For real man!

    The dude is a god damn American icon...sounding better than ever.  

    He really is. (none / 0) (#143)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:18:01 PM EST


    Parent
    The crew and I... (none / 0) (#153)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:35:53 PM EST
    were prepared to beg for "Blue Wing", but no need...he hit us with it first set.

    Another highlight was "Downey Girl"...but I don't he's penned or played a bad one...ever.  Dave Alvin is good like that:)

    Parent

    Yep, he's one of my faves. (none / 0) (#160)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:41:37 PM EST
    Just found out Downey Girl is about Karen Carpenter.

    Parent
    Did he play "Abilene?" (none / 0) (#165)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:53:38 PM EST


    Parent
    You bet.... (none / 0) (#169)
    by kdog on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:58:20 PM EST
    4th of July, Ashgrove, a few new ones and others I didn't recognize.

    Stupendous all...and he gave his six-string a workout on some fast r&b numbers.  Smoking.  Rocked harder than the last few times I've seen him, where I remember more acoustic stuff.

    Parent

    Ya, the first time I saw him live (none / 0) (#171)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:01:35 PM EST
    he was all electric and tore the house down....

    Parent
    Rio Grand? (none / 0) (#172)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:04:00 PM EST


    Parent
    Y'all are typing in a foreign language! (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:08:48 PM EST


    Parent
    Ooops (none / 0) (#62)
    by Edger on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:18:56 AM EST
    Bush, Blair found guilty of war crimes

    The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal found the former heads of state guilty after a four-day hearing. A seven-member panel chaired by former Malaysian Federal Court judge Abdul Kadir Sulaiman presided over the trial.

    The five panel tribunal unanimously decided that the former US and British leaders had committed crimes against peace and humanity, and also violated international law when they ordered the invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

    The prosecutors at the hearing ruled that the invasion of Iraq was a flagrant abuse of law, and act of aggression which amounted to a mass murder of the Iraqi people.

    "Bush and Blair are found guilty under the same law that applied to the Nazis after the end of the World War II. So, they are international (war) criminals guilty of Nuremberg crimes against peace; and they should be prosecuted by any state in the world that gets a hold of them. We will continue our efforts to bring Bush and Blair to justice and put them in jail," Francis Boyle, an international law expert and prosecutor, told Press TV.

    Yeah, yeah, I know. "How many divisions does Malaysia have, anyway"?

    The World Poker Tour and my lid (none / 0) (#71)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:45:10 AM EST
    Though I busted out late on Day 1, and woke up bummed on my birthday alone in a hotel room, the kids from the WPT really stepped up, took me out to dinner, bought me drinks and other spirits, hung out with young pro/WPT commentator Tony Dunst and had a good rap with him about life, poker (he lost his entire bankroll on Black Friday, has no idea if he'll ever get it back), writing, women, Hollywood idiocy...really liked the guy, very generous of spirit and not a typically single-minded pokerbot.  And I managed to get a flight home early (that was my b-day present, getting back to the wife and child early -- which is as good a present as you can get really).  And here's a little interview they did with me during an early break from play.  The humidity did wonders for my already ridiculous hair, and there's nothing like an amateur poker hack obsessed with his wig. (LINK)

    David, we have the same haircut, lol! (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by jeffinalabama on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:16:09 PM EST
    Especially the skin-colored part. Great interview.

    Parent
    Have you ever played (none / 0) (#126)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:34:29 PM EST
    at the Commerce? Your face is familiar.

    Parent
    Never (none / 0) (#131)
    by Dadler on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 12:55:16 PM EST
    I have a very deceptive mug though.  ;-)

    Parent
    The video completed destroyed my (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by oculus on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:10:31 PM EST
    my mental image of you!

    Parent
    He looks how I thought he would look (5.00 / 3) (#180)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:13:18 PM EST
    But I saw him with shorter hair.  I see everyone with shorter hair though, just ask Joshua.

    Parent
    At any of the Indian casinos (none / 0) (#201)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 02:39:42 PM EST
    around San Diego??

    Parent
    I am missing 10% somewhere (none / 0) (#77)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 10:58:13 AM EST
    but you get the point.

    2 words for you, ABG (none / 0) (#134)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:00:57 PM EST
    M-A-N-D-A-T-E

    G-E-I-T-H-N-E-R
    A very educational explanation (none / 0) (#149)
    by christinep on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:26:02 PM EST
    Looking around and ambling thru several logs this a.m. I came upon Sullivan, scrolled and saw the comment to which you refer. As I returned to TL -thinking about said comment-I saw that you had excerpted and discussed it

    Thanks, ABG. It is straightforward, powerful.  I'll remember that and the feelings it raises. Strong.

    This is pretty (none / 0) (#150)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 23, 2011 at 01:28:23 PM EST
    much what I figured in that's it's really personal more than anything policy based because African Americans have suffered record high unemployment numbers under Obama.

    As for me, I would be saying the same thing if he was white or Hispanic.

    Tuesday Night Open Thread | 187 comments (187 topical)