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Monday Afternoon Open Thread

It's snowing and icy here.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    ugh (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:08:19 PM EST
    Jeb has an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal

    i thought we might get through a couple more election cycles before we heard again from a Bush, at least of Dubya's generation

    future shock?

    I she instigating a "draft Jeb" mvt.? (none / 0) (#8)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:43:07 PM EST
    well, my first thought (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:59:04 PM EST
    was that maybe someone is, since the party is apparently unable to accept its "inevitable" nominee

    & if that's the case, do they really think Obama is so beatable that they can draft & run Jeb Bush?

    it's almost enough to make me seriously consider another hypothesis advanced by some here at TL: that the GOP really doesn't want to win in 2012

    Parent

    I don't know. Wiki says he grad. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:14:14 PM EST
    undergrad in 3 yrs., is popular with Cuban community in FL, also Latinos, and AAs due to his co-founding a charter school. When's the deadline to file?  

    Parent
    This isn't related to 2012 ... (none / 0) (#34)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:41:50 PM EST
    it's long game stuff, '16, '20, etc..

    Parent
    "Is he"!!!! (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:43:32 PM EST
    From Wiki: (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:53:59 PM EST
    "I want to be very wealthy," Jeb Bush told the Miami News when questioned during that period [1990s].



    Parent
    They're beginning the slow ... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Robot Porter on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:56:02 PM EST
    process and build up to Jeb '16!

    Parent
    My take also (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 08:31:03 PM EST
    They will save Jeb for 2016.

     

    Parent

    AT&T drops bid to acquire T-Mobile U.S. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by andgarden on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:13:47 PM EST
    Upshot: elections have consequences.

    J, may I be the first to confirm (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:47:34 AM EST
    that the rumors of Jon Bon Jovi's death today are completely, 100%, false.

    When I saw the runor, Jeralyn was who I thought of (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 09:43:11 AM EST
    and also my late brother, who jokingly used Bon Jovi! as an exclamation in the 80's.

    Parent
    I did the same thing! We were getting (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 10:50:32 AM EST
    ready for dinner, and my future son-in-law is reading facebook on his phone, and I hear him say, "What? Jon Bon Jovi died?" and my first thought was "Jeralyn's going to lose it."

    I said to him - "are you sure it says Jon Bon Jovi?"  And he reads it again and says "yeah, that's what I'm reading."  

    About 15 seconds later future SIL says, "Uh, nope - never mind - it's just a stupid facebook rumor."

    Have I mentioned lately that FB really just gets on my nerves?  

    Parent

    At least its "nerves" not your one last (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:19:03 AM EST
    nerve.  

    Parent
    Haven't ya heard? (none / 0) (#114)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 01:16:04 PM EST
    The hipsters have spoken, FB is as dead as quaaludes.

    Don't be the last one off the bandwagon:)

    Parent

    I would like to thank Jesus for one thing today (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 08:34:46 AM EST
    Kim Jong-il has died, and I don't have to listen to a stupid phucking Axis of Evil speech.  Thank you Jesus.  The insane will be pi$$ed though probably on the Sunday blabbing shows because there are no Axis of Evil speeches and wow, now there's two things I want to thank Jesus for.  That Jesus, he's just busy with me today but it tis the season :)

    that was about genetics and intelligence.

    Got my latest National Geographic yesterday and they discussed exactly that in an article about twins.

    What was additionally interesting is that kdog (I think) and I riffed on this idea and wondered maybe genetics has something to do with religiosity.

    Well, the Nat Geo article hit on that same idea as well, maybe they montitor us here at TL! ;-)

    I guess the article also helps explain some of the rather heated responses the topic raised...

    Over two decades 137 sets of twins eventually visited Bouchard's lab in what became known as the Minnesota Study of Twins Reared Apart. The twins were tested for mental skills, such as vocabulary, visual memory, arithmetic, and spatial rotation. They were given lung-function tests and heart exams and had their brain waves measured. They took personality tests and IQ tests and were quizzed about their sexual histories. Altogether, each twin was bombarded with more than 15,000 questions. "We threw the kitchen sink at them," Bou­chard says.

    Armed with this mountain of data, Bouchard, Segal, and their colleagues set out to unravel some of the knottiest mysteries of human nature: Why are some people happy and others sad? Why are some outgoing and others shy? Where does general intelligence come from?

    [...]

    When they looked at the data on twins' intelligence, Bouchard's team reached a controversial conclusion: For people raised in the same culture with the same opportunities, differences in IQ reflected largely differences in inheritance rather than in training or education.

    [...]

    This ran counter to the prevailing belief of behaviorists that our brains were blank slates waiting to be inscribed by experience.

    More alarming to some, the suggestion that intelligence was linked to heredity evoked the disgraced theories of the eugenics movements of the early 20th century in England and the United States, which had promoted improvement of the collective gene pool through selective breeding.

    "The far-left groups on campus were trying to get me fired," Bouchard says.

    The researchers also questioned how much parenting affects intelligence levels. When they compared identical twins raised in different families, like the Jim twins, with those raised in the same family, they found each pair's IQ scores to be similar. It was as if it didn't matter in which family the twins had been raised.

    That didn't imply, Bouchard and his colleagues were quick to point out, that parents have no impact at all on their children.

    [...]

    Another study found that the strength of an individual's religious fervor was significantly shaped by heredity, though one's choice of affiliation--whether to become, say, a Methodist or a Roman Catholic--was not.




    oh boy - popcorn time (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 02:24:43 PM EST
    Was kind of hoping for peace--you know (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 02:38:28 PM EST
    like when the Germans and Allied troops emerged from their respective trenches on Christmas Eve to celebrate together--at least through Christmas Day.  Maybe it's time to stop spending so much time on TL.  

    Parent
    Compared to most internet... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:54:36 PM EST
    discussion/debate, TL is a freakin' love-in.  

    Or maybe I've just got peacekeeper genetics clouding my vision:)

    Parent

    The latter, most likely. Am on override: (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:10:57 PM EST
    enjoying listening to CDs of J.S. Bach "Christmas Cantata."  [Ian Bostridge sings the Evangelist in Bach's "St. John Passion" @ Carnegie Hall March 28, 2012. Would really like to hear that performance.]
    link

    Parent
    Thanks Mom & Dad... (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:58:58 PM EST
    for the liberty-evangelical fervor genes, I wouldn't have it any other way:)

    I say again we have nothing to fear from research and an honest search for truth, though we may have something to fear from human-beings using the findings to evil ends.

    Put it this way, I'm guarding my DNA more than ever.

    Parent

    To paraphrase Blago (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:03:57 PM EST
    You've got gold there, kdog! Don't just give it away!

    Parent
    OT, but speaking of Blago (none / 0) (#76)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 10:00:50 AM EST
    but how does this explain (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by CST on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:15:12 PM EST
    why I'm so much smarter and better than my siblings :)

    Parent
    You must be the eldest. Future astronaut, (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:18:17 PM EST
    aa few tics higher on the IQ scale.  Enough to thwart one for life!  Today my very Catholic friend and I were discussing the fact two of her three adult children a named for former saints:  Christopher and Patrick.  Same deal:  what could I do?  My saint was disbarred!

    Parent
    Who's the third one named for? (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:22:33 PM EST
    They should ALL be named for saints!

    Parent
    "Shannon." Irish Catholic (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:24:02 PM EST
    parents whose marriage was later annulled.  

    Parent
    Middle name maybe? (none / 0) (#29)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:24:50 PM EST
    Marie I think. Pretty saintly. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:54:34 PM EST
    Spanish Catholic here (none / 0) (#111)
    by sj on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:42:38 PM EST
    With a pretty religious mother.  And not a one of the five of us named for a saint.  A couple of saints got a nod with our middle names, but that's because they are variations of our parents' names.

    Our names aren't of Spanish origin either.  I wish I could ask my Mom what her governing criteria was...  other than the middle name thing, of course, which it took me a long time to match up.  The things you just accept and take for granted.

    Parent

    youngest actually (none / 0) (#33)
    by CST on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:39:16 PM EST
    To be fair, the eldest did do better than me in school, and on tests, and stuff like that.  Then again she also had waaay less fun than me.

    It's really the middle child that gets all screwed up.

    In our family my sisters have very common names like "liz" and "sara" and I have a name like "eleanor" (made up names, but you get the point).  I dunno if they just got bored or what.  But none of us were named after saints unless it was an accident.

    Parent

    LOL! (none / 0) (#35)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:46:00 PM EST
    Try being born Greek-American.  We're all either named after saints, figures in Greek history, philosophy, or the arts (one of my great aunts thought we should name our son Pericles, Thucydides, or Socrates- no, I don't think so!), or figures in Greek mythology (I knew two Aphrodites and many, many Athenas).

    Parent
    I forwarded today's "word" to my Greek (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:51:24 PM EST
    friend with this intro:  those Greeks have a word for everything.  But she didn't know today's word: callipygous

    Parent
    I've always seen this (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 05:59:20 PM EST
    as "callypigian."  Didn't even know they used the term "callipygous," as well.  
    And if the Greeks don't already have a word for something, we're happy to make one up!   ;-)

    Parent
    Oops! (none / 0) (#47)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 06:01:17 PM EST
    Misspelled both.  "Callipygian" and "callipygous."


    Parent
    I actually (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 05:00:26 PM EST
    know someone who named her son Socrates and her daughter Athena.

    Parent
    I have a friend named Xerxes. (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 05:12:02 PM EST
    How does he pronounce his name? (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 05:14:31 PM EST
    Is he a mezzo soprano?  (Thinking Handel here.)

    Parent
    Zirk-sees. (none / 0) (#42)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 05:16:58 PM EST
    Not a singer, afaik.

    Parent
    I knew a Socrates (none / 0) (#48)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 06:02:39 PM EST
    And two guys named Plato.  And a whole bunch named Aristotle.

    Parent
    I have one very good Greek friend (none / 0) (#51)
    by ruffian on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 08:25:24 PM EST
    who's middle name is Xenia. We all think it is so cool to have an X in the monogram.

    Parent
    I once painted for a woman (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 11:20:00 PM EST
    who named her baby girl Ariadne. She gave birth to her the day I finished the last clear coat on the baby's changing table. She was a very mean client. I hope her daughter is not damaged by her. (I know I was.)

    Zorba, Ariadne = "pure one"?

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#73)
    by Zorba on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 08:57:27 AM EST
    One who is pure, holy, chaste.  Or Most pure/most holy.

    Parent
    Hermitude. (none / 0) (#18)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:11:57 PM EST
    Religious fervor shaped by heredity my a$$ (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 10:09:17 PM EST
    Joshua will be having giant surgery right after the first of the year.  I don't mind if anyone sends him healing thoughts and energy.  I think we are going to need lots of that.  If your God hates fags though don't send us any prayers and please keep your own thoughts to yourself.  That God....that God that hates fags and whores and mostly everyone and who is only letting crazy evil people into heaven, spending eternity in heaven with him and that bunch sounds like hell to me.  It's bad enough spending a lifetime down here with them, phuck eternity :)

    And I love my mom, but my mom thought that perhaps a Baptist God would save her, that didn't work out so well in her hour of largest need.  

    My religious fervor is based on a bit of scientific method.  Perhaps evolution is involved, but that is happening daily...beyond my own initial conception :)  Maybe I caught a virus and it is mutating my DNA a little everyday.  I started out a decent enough Christian little girl, but reality and watching what Christians have done to other human beings in the name of their God has changed all that.

    Parent

    MT: having a so-called (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by the capstan on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 07:51:03 AM EST
    'special needs' child (mine is retarded, and I prefer to say either that or 'Downs'--why waffle?) helps you along the road that goes away from a God who hurts people.  Holding your blameless child, you know that no 'true' God pointed a finger and said, "You're it!"  At that point, I saw the instances of coercion and falsity in the written 'Word.'  Eventually, I came to see glimpses of truth that taught me who to listen to.

    My son is Buddhist, or at least he wants to be.  I still hold on to my heritage even tho I know it is a 'heretical' version.  But with advanced age (and fewer distractions), I can claim the internal and eternal peace that the church-goers are seeking (and usually not finding, apparently).

    I shall keep Josh in mind during the coming days--lots of good wishes go with him.

    Parent

    Thank you friend, I will be needing it (none / 0) (#69)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 08:12:37 AM EST
    Yes, having a child noticeably special was the icing on the cake.  If there is a God of judgement, Joshua never did anything to him, never even had the chance, and THAT GOD...well he can kiss my blankety blank.  I already had begun to be intolerant of the intolerants but having Joshua really baked that last cake rock solid :)

    My husband says he is a Christian Buddhist.  I'm not certain what that is, he even may not have defined parameters of what that is.  It is his though.  And his heart and mind have been wide open since Josh's birth and I'll leave him to his journey.  He is obviously on a journey minus intolerance and hate speech and dehumanization.

    Parent

    What about Josh and his beliefs? (none / 0) (#81)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:16:36 AM EST
    Thinking of you and yours.  Tough times ahead for all.  

    Parent
    Josh is not sure (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 27, 2011 at 12:46:37 AM EST
    He thinks there is something organizing the universe but he wonders if we as human beings can even comprehend it?  He's very connected to loving each other.  He does have a counselor now that he talks to about his anxieties because he has a few.  Sometimes when he shares things with me, his future plans, things that are important to him, being an Uncle is huge for him.  He takes the role and his influence very seriously.

    Parent
    Cool, the part about religious fervor (none / 0) (#64)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:48:53 AM EST
    is bupkis.

    Parent
    I'm curious (none / 0) (#4)
    by CST on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 02:38:30 PM EST
    regarding the "religious fervor" question - whether Athiesm counts as a religion for one to be fervorous about.

    I think it probably should.

    And I think if it did, it would probably still "agree" with these results.  The reason I'm bringing this up is that through personal experience I have found that those who convert to a specific religion from no religion tend to be highly religious.  Which makes sense, since if you are rejecting how you were raised you probably have strong convictions.  But I guess I wonder if it would correlate to "strong athiest fervor" in the rest of the family.

    On that note I'm not gonna touch the rest of this with a 10' pole :)

    Parent

    "fervor" itself is significantly genetic, whether it's religious fervor, political, sports, occupation...

    Parent
    I myself think there is an (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 10:15:58 PM EST
    "addiction" component to most religious zealots, lots of being shame based.  Doesn't being shame based have a lot to do with developing a good addiction most of the time though?

    And If your parents are shame based, you will start out shame based.  If they hide from it through religious addiction, chances are good that their children will resort to the same processes because that is what they are taught and that is what is normal.

    I knew a couple though that were very alcoholic, and when they decided to stop drinking all their meals they instead almost immediately became the craziest Evangelicals evah.

    Parent

    MT, it really is simple (none / 0) (#75)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 09:47:50 AM EST
    When they quit drinking they sought help and solace outside themselves. Check out the premise of AA.

    And I gotta admit I never thought of a religious zealot as being ashamed. We should quit shooting the Muslim terrorists and provide counseling...

    ;-)

    And became "craziest Evangelicals evah......?"

    You must meet more weirdos in a week than I have in my entire life.

    Parent

    Without the concept of original sin (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:31:32 AM EST
    don't the Christian religions fall apart? I don't know enough about Islam to know if it has the concept of we all have to either pay the price for Adam and Eve, or be "saved".

    How can you not see that as shame-based?

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#86)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:34:12 AM EST
    When did original sin become a belief in my faith?  (I'm a Christian.)

    Parent
    Sorry- I didn't realize non-Catholics (none / 0) (#93)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:45:50 AM EST
    did not have that belief!!!

    Parent
    I remember reading, (none / 0) (#115)
    by NYShooter on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 01:43:16 PM EST
    back in the 60's, the belief of a naval psychiatrist, whose field of expertise was sensory deprivation, that babies were born good, pure, and sane. And then spend the rest of their lives being driven crazy by we adults.    

    Parent
    It's in our DNA. (none / 0) (#87)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:35:30 AM EST
    That really depends on which Christian (none / 0) (#99)
    by coast on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:54:23 AM EST
    religion you are affiliated with.  Original sin in the Catholic Church is not equated to the sin of Adam.  It is rather the condition of man to be sinful.  I believe the Orthodox church believes it is traced back to Adam though.

    Parent
    Seems to "depend." (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:59:59 AM EST
    Catholic Encyclopedia

    Course, since I'm not Catholic, lapsed or otherwise, what do I know?  

    Parent

    Not a cradle catholic, so I can only go by (none / 0) (#104)
    by coast on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:16:45 PM EST
    by what I took from RCIA classes ages ago.  Obviously I should have listened a little better in class. :)

    Parent
    I am sceptical twins raised apart are (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 02:40:25 PM EST
    "religious" if the household in which one was raised was not "religious."  

    Parent
    Me too (none / 0) (#70)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 08:13:30 AM EST
    i wonder whether (none / 0) (#12)
    by The Addams Family on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 03:54:49 PM EST
    the question of "fervor," with respect to a passionately espoused, evangelistic religious or anti-religious position (as opposed to a personal, private religious faith or a personal, private determination that nothing warrants religious faith), might be related less to the question of God/faith/religion per se than to an individual's emotional/intellectual capacity to hold uncertainty & tolerate ambiguity

    & if it were to be found that there is a connection between one's genetic inheritance & one's emotional/intellectual capacity to hold uncertainty & tolerate ambiguity, i wonder if that capacity might also turn out to be a marker for creativity & unconventional thinking (as opposed to a bent for binary, black-and-white, more conventional thinking)

    in other words, if genetic factors do play a role here, might there be genetic markers for a fanatical temperament?

    Parent

    I think genetic factors play a role (none / 0) (#30)
    by sj on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:26:31 PM EST
    I spent my practically my son's whole life trying to get him to see shades of gray.  And to be skeptical even when someone he respects and admires speaks in absolutes (that includes me, btw).  (Can you imagine how traumatic it was for me when he transferred from public to Catholic school in HS?  Those priests speak in nothing but absolutes.).  

    It was work and he didn't get it from me.  And he even now it sometimes needs to be pointed out to him that it's not always either/or.  That spectrums come in to play.

    It's kind of weird.  As judgemental as he is in the abstract, when it comes to the individual he is really compassionate and quite sensitive.  He just can't quite make the emotional leap that masses are made up of individuals.  He knows it intellectually, but not emotionally.  

    That black and white thinking is intrinsic to him.  

    Parent

    Left brained vs. Right brained? (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:27:22 PM EST
    What's his other parent like?

    Parent
    Casually agnostic (none / 0) (#32)
    by sj on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:31:38 PM EST
    But rather selfish.  The family?  Pretty evangelical.

    Parent
    But judgemental or not? (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:48:04 PM EST
    [Got a wonderful Christmas letter from a friend who is French.  This line brought me up short:  [re travels to Spain] "You can't get rid of history and that makes it clear the opinion of some Arabs who even now tell that Spain is the spearhead of Islam in Europe.  Hopefully the Arabic presence remains only in the monuments......."  (English is definitely not my friends first language or even second.)]

    Parent
    Pretty judgemental (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by sj on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 05:34:14 PM EST
    but they were also like 20 years older than my parents, so...

    As to this:

    Hopefully the Arabic presence remains only in the monuments
    I think it does not.  I am of Spanish derivation (direct from Spain, folks, albeit 400 years ago or so) as are those few I have met outside of my family but sharing the name.  However the name is not to be found in the Spanish lexicon.  There is, apparently, a somewhat more common variation in Northern Africa.

    Until now I never gave conscious thought to the implication that there must be an Arabic side to my geneology.  Okay, somewhere between the 8th and 13th centuries so pretty diluted, but I nevertheless find myself quite pleased with that.

    So anyway the Arabic presence lives on in some of the residents.

    Parent

    Of course the Catholic regime (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 08:30:20 PM EST
    expellWd the Spanish Jews and Moors and many fled first to N. Africa

    Parent
    Well, true (none / 0) (#55)
    by sj on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 09:46:36 PM EST
    but the Moors also came from North Africa originally.

    Parent
    Oh, I see (none / 0) (#56)
    by sj on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 10:04:24 PM EST
    Did you mean as to Arabic presence?  That could be, but the name is extant in Spain.  

    I just got sidetracked doing a little research and found another Moorish connection...

    I'm finding my family history more and more interesting as I get older.  Unfortunately by then it's harder to get more first hand information.

    Parent

    yup (none / 0) (#50)
    by TeresaInPa on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 07:09:46 PM EST
    I have to say that when it comes to fervor, the most fervorish evangelical people I know are generally atheists.  They are also the only people over the age of 10 I know who believe in a "magic man in the sky".

    Parent
    Bad fashion choice. And is Palin (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 04:19:50 PM EST
    trying to look like Tina Fey now?  

    There is more redundancy in the (none / 0) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 07:00:18 PM EST
    investigative reports of the BP Deepwater Horizon disaster than there is built into the safety system.  Once again, another investigative report, this time by the National Academy of Engineering, commissioned by the Department of Interior,  has found carelessness in the past and a call for vigilance in the future. Overall, a decision to ignore tests showing faulty concrete plugs in the well was, literally, a fatal decision, followed by reliance on a blowout protecter (BOP) not designed or tested for conditions at depths of 5000 feet.

    The report said that there was more focus on drilling and profits than on the need for preparedness and oversight. However, since the disaster there have been new safety procedures and the minerals and management service has been renamed and reorganized and its new leaders have vowed to protect the public and environment not the industry they are charged with regulating.

    While acknowledging efforts, panelist Roger McCathy of McCarthy Engineering says the industry still treats BOP capabilities as proprietary secrets and they lack independent certification despite the Gulf disaster.  McCarthy says that you can't buy a circuit breaker that has not been independently certified and a BOP is a circuit breaker for the ocean.  

    Donald Winter, a former Sec of Navy who directed this study, said that because of the improvements, drilling in the gulf could safely proceed at this point in time. But he warned of overconfidence (should anyone have some).

    Indefinite Detention (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 08:42:37 PM EST
    The Movie (5 min.) starring Veto Curleone

    It's snowing and icy here. (none / 0) (#59)
    by desertswine on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 10:30:20 PM EST
    I-40 is shut down all the way from Albuquerque to the Texas border.

    Hope you don't (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Edger on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 06:47:19 AM EST
    get a sunburn on your frostbite, Donald. ;-)

    Parent
    burr (none / 0) (#60)
    by sj on Mon Dec 19, 2011 at 11:03:46 PM EST
    I'm not missing that...

    Parent
    Happy my brother didn't decide to drive (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:28:22 AM EST
    from east coast of FL to here.  Thank you, Southwest Airlines.  

    Parent
    I just read this (none / 0) (#82)
    by sj on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:17:07 AM EST
    about the storm you're in the middle of.  The storm sounds crazy dangerous.  And big.

    It completely broke my holiday good spirits.  That baby and the teenager lost to the plane accident just broke my heart.  I've lost family members to accidents.  I know what it does to the body to be be killed in accident.  

    Parent

    Ugh. Me too. that poor family (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:40:52 AM EST
    Hope the worst is past and if not people realize that driving in that stuff is just not worth it.

    Parent
    Bradley Manning's Article 32 hearing (none / 0) (#67)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 07:16:25 AM EST
    Update from the 4th day of the hearing:

    Prosecution witnesses also testified that a file allegedly deleted from one of Manning's work computers contained more than 100,000 State Department cables. And a May 2010 e-mail that was sent to an acquaintance -- and that Manning apparently thought he had encrypted -- said, "I was the source of the 12 July 07 video from the Apache weapons team which killed two journalists and injured two kids."

    The steady disclosure of evidence was highly damaging, experts said, as prosecutors attempted to paint a picture of a leaker who knew he was breaking military rules.

    "You add it up, add it up, and eventually it gives people something approaching a moral certainty" that Manning committed the crimes, said Eugene Fidell, a visiting lecturer in military justice at Yale Law School. "I would be surprised if the defense was sipping champagne this evening. Private Manning is in serious trouble."

    SNIP

    On this fourth day of the hearing, investigators said they recovered from one of Manning's work computers a deleted file containing four assessments of detainees at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; a corrupted, deleted file containing 10,000 State Department cables that apparently was never sent to WikiLeaks; and a deleted file with more than 100,000 diplomatic cables that had been compressed for apparent ease of transfer.

    The chats between Manning and Assange, whose user name was "pressassociation@jabber.ccc.de," were recovered from Manning's laptop, prosecutors said.

    "The substance of the chat was predominantly discussion of government information and specifically sending or receiving that information," said Mark Johnson, a contract forensic examiner with the Army Computer Crimes Investigative Unit. He said Assange and Manning discussed WikiLeaks and assessments of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

    He also said that Manning's laptop contained evidence that a secure file transfer connection had been set up between a Verizon Internet address registered to his aunt's home and a secure server associated with a Swedish Internet service provider known as PRQ, which has been affiliated with WikiLeaks.

    Johnson said Manning's laptop password was the same as the one he used to log on to his secure work station in Baghdad: TWink1492!!

    Investigators also recovered from Manning's laptop an instruction to "Acquire and Exfiltrate the Global Address List of United States Forces Iraq" and "thousands" of e-mail addresses for soldiers in Iraq, Johnson said.

    He said Manning erased data from his laptop twice in January 2010, making it impossible for investigators to retrieve any information before that month.

    Johnson examined an external hard drive belonging to Manning that had been in his quarters in Baghdad. It included a document titled "wl-press.txt" created on Nov. 30, 2009, around the time Manning is said to have initiated contact with WikiLeaks. That document included the message, which was projected on a courtroom screen:

    "You can currently contact our investigations editor directly in Iceland at 354 862 3481, 24 hour service, ask for Julian Assange."



    Sounds really bad for him (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 08:16:40 AM EST
    Thank you for putting this up.

    Parent
    We just got a big change in orders (none / 0) (#77)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 10:26:55 AM EST
    due this fall.  No specific order yet, just heads up that we will be getting something this fall.  Completely changes everything that was going on.  Husband's career manager says that the needs of the military have been changing dramatically over a very short span of time, and it has to do with being short troops for deployment.  I have ZERO idea of what any of this might mean.  I really don't.  Just sitting here rolling my eyes.  What Now?  It will all work out, I do trust this President in this area.  Seriously though, what now?

    He has a "career manager"? When (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:21:20 AM EST
    did that come into vogue?  Talk about God-like powers.  I remember trying to decifer the BUPER-Inst or something orders--like reading a telegram.  

    Parent
    Warrant officers have them (none / 0) (#89)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:38:06 AM EST
    as well as Commissioned.  I don't know about enlisted but I would think that when you make it past E7 you probably do because your seniority holds worth with the military.  Unhappy seniority means you risk losing your wealth of knowledge and long term derived skill.  They often only end up being someone to argue with about how you are being "tracked" wrong :)

    They are supposed to work things out with soldiers on their upcoming assignments, and if you are a good arguer I think you can make a much better career for yourself via arguing with your career manager if you are willing to back it all up at work too when you get what you are arguing for and work your butt off.

    Often a career manager will come to you with a few choices, they are slots that the manager must fill, and sometimes you get to make a choice.  Most people hate Korea, but when soldiers marry someone from South Korea and then you start to have kids, other grandparents want to see their grandkids too.  So we have friends who make deals with their career manager to take the South Korea slots that everyone hates for three years, and usually come back to the post of their choice too since they took such a "horrible" slot for three years.

    South Korea family is happy, family usually has stability in the U.S. too.  You can buy a house with a good possibility of returning to it and needing to live in it often for long periods of time and have roots in that community too.

    Parent

    Something tells me there weren't any (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:45:25 AM EST
    managers of the careers of 2 yr. Navy enlistee GMOs in 1967.  

    Parent
    NOPE (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:15:05 PM EST
    This is Clinton's kinder gentler educated military :)  You came out of the REAL super duper suck it up!

    Parent
    Ah. We actually lucked out, well, except (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:19:18 PM EST
    for that spousal yr. in Norfolk whilst the GMO floated around in the Caribbean.  Still, considering the alternatives,, i.e., Vietnam, no complaints.  

    Parent
    Oh oh. (none / 0) (#80)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:02:21 AM EST
    "Being short troops for deployment" would be cause for worry.  But you can't do a darn thing about it and have enough to worry about in weeks ahead.  So I think that it may be time to spike the eggnog.

    Parent
    I think they are going to move the (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:45:21 AM EST
    whole family out of Rucker.  I wish my husband would take a slot at Bragg or Leavenworth.  Both posts have teaching positions he would love to teach in.  He will be deploying for a year though at the start.  I do not like Alabama though.  I would really like to leave.

    The Junior High experience is going to be rough next year too for our Joshua.  The school system is so broke moneywise here.  There aren't even enough lockers for students at the Junior High and no money to remedy that for about two years now, some students must carry all of their books with them all day if they are too poor to come up with the yearly $15. There aren't any private schools offering the priorities that I seek offered either.  Those available consider it THE priority to teach your child what the Bible says.  Just another work of fiction in my mind, and under those circumstances I'd rather send my child to a school based on Star Trek :)

    Parent

    Okay, let's look at that phrase (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:46:18 PM EST
    as saying that he is needed to train troops for THEM to deploy.

    (Not that I'm happy with more deployments to yet more wars, but if our troops do go, I want them well-trained to take care of themselves and each other, so more can come home in sound mind and body.)

    Parent

    Might he be sent to a flight status position? (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 03:29:41 PM EST
    If that's the case, Hood or Campbell might be in the cards... or possibly Ramstein, Stuttgart, or even NATO! Hey, does NATO still mean Nothing After Two O'clock?

    Parent
    He would love to do anything NATO (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:37:28 PM EST
    He loves working with NATO whenever he gets the chance during deployments.  The military is very reluctant to send him and send us command sponsored out of country because of Josh's health needs.  This upcoming surgery is a kind of game changer for Josh though.  Maybe after that we can do something out of country.

    It is going to suck a bit though for awhile.  They will have to put him in Halo traction for about three weeks.  Prior to that will be an extensive surgery removing his titanium rods, they will be doing anterior releases, and also his neck is partially fused on its own so they will be breaking apart the fusing.

    Our soldier's next slot being deployed will be solidly within aviation, but he really wants to teach in a classroom when he retires and not just a couple of students in an airframe.  He wants 50 students at once.  Leavenworth consistently has the top winning instructors too.  Working within an instruction environment that geared toward excellence is very attractive to him.

    After a few weeks of having Josh in the Halo traction, they will then fuse his neck straight and perhaps a mini fuse of his spine.  That one is up in the air.  A new rod system will be designed also and put into place too.

    More new technology.  The first go around saved his life when he was four, now they will "fix" things further and likely get him well into adulthood safely if this goes well.

    I don't know if they (DOD) will ever  be comfortable allowing Joshua out of the country though while technically being their responsibility.

    Parent

    Oh boy. I'm with Towanda - try not to worry (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:36:46 AM EST
    for now, and enjoy your time together.

    Parent
    I don't want him to deploy (none / 0) (#95)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:49:08 AM EST
    But I do sort of want him to entertain teaching in his old age elsewhere.  He'd love to teach at the WOC school, but he is a master instructor now.  He can teach at Bragg.  He can teach at many many posts.  He is a good instructor too.  Considers it a great honor to get have such influence in the lives and hopefully the life saving of others.

    Parent
    From everything you have said about him (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by ruffian on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:53:28 AM EST
    he sounds like he has a lot of wisdom and knowledge to share with the younger troops. I hope that is what they have in mind for him. If he went to Bragg would you and Josh move? I guess it would depend on how long the assignment was?

    Parent
    If we were someplace else (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:12:01 PM EST
    He only has another three years.  So that's a year deploying, two back home becoming familiar with the existing on post instruction needs.  And then when he retires he may do what many do and already have his teaching job opening for him.

    I think his next slot though will probably be an aviation combat tactics slot.  He really has what it takes to do that job well.  They are very short in that area, and his career manager is catching some hell and having a hard time filling that slot in more than one place.  It isn't good for anyone to deploy with that slot vacant either.

    Parent

    See if your husband (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by NYShooter on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 02:16:46 PM EST
     can pull some strings and get assigned to a base like the one I spent some at in the 70's.

    Link

    You can thank me later.

    Parent

    Great sailing there. But now that (none / 0) (#119)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 08:25:56 PM EST
    Vieques is no longer the province of the U.S. Navy for gunnery practice, is Roosevelt Roads still active?  

    Parent
    no, not to my knowledge (none / 0) (#121)
    by NYShooter on Wed Dec 21, 2011 at 09:05:50 AM EST
    too bad

    golf, horses, swimming, yacht club, flying club, and the officer's club....fantastic times

    Parent

    Apparently Roosevelt Roads is no longer (none / 0) (#122)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 21, 2011 at 03:50:50 PM EST
    U.S. military base.  Airport now.  Wiki

    Parent
    Yes, thank you, too bad (none / 0) (#123)
    by NYShooter on Wed Dec 21, 2011 at 05:10:48 PM EST
    A friend of mine was the manager of the flying club based at Rosey roads. The club was like all the clubs (golf, boating, tennis, horses, etc) there for the enjoyment of the enlistees, officers, and their families. Since I had gotten "John" interested in flying years earlier whenever I needed a vacation I would hop on down to P.R. and paid for my stay by working as a part-time flying instructor.

    John, while no longer in the Service, was granted full officer privileges while there. And, Lordy, Lord, were those privileges fantastic! We had a dozen planes at our disposal, paying only for gas. And, with the Virgin Islands only a hop, skip, and jump away, this 20-something young stud didn't need much of a "c'mon" line to hit it off with the ladies.

    The navy also provided John with a millionaire's villa off base. Some of those rich folks had properties all over the world and since they traveled a lot they rented their homes to the navy when not on the Island.

    Yup, great times, thanks for the memories.


    Parent

    We went sailing there, in Gannett (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Wed Dec 21, 2011 at 06:34:55 PM EST
    sailboats previously used at Annapolis.  Lots of fun.  

    Parent
    Pretty sure, if there is a God, you are (none / 0) (#94)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:46:14 AM EST
    being auditioned for the role of female Job.

    Parent
    I'm flunking as Jobette (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:02:12 PM EST
    I plan to constantly fail too :)

    Parent
    "That which does not kill us (none / 0) (#96)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:51:38 AM EST
    only makes us stronger."

    -Nietzsche

    Parent

    "God never gives us more than we can (none / 0) (#98)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 11:54:16 AM EST
    handle."  Purported direct biblical quote.  The Lutheran

    Parent
    I use that one a lot (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:23:55 PM EST
    Mostly to myself

    Parent
    is based on making a mockery of that saying.

    Parent
    I rejected that one when my mother died (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:28:58 PM EST
    at age 57.  

    Parent
    Ouch. That's young. (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:40:10 PM EST
    Oh yeah (none / 0) (#110)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:40:24 PM EST
    Going with Hemingway.  The world breaks everyone...that's why only the good die young, Ernest Hemingway with a splash of Billy Joel :)

    Parent
    Used to be that (none / 0) (#112)
    by jeffinalabama on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 12:44:55 PM EST
    you needed to make a friend in Branch-- your branch adjutants at the Pentagon... then you could call them, keep yourself from a post like, oh, Fort Polk or Camp Casey...

    How things have changed.

    Parent

    You can still do some things of that (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 01:57:24 PM EST
    nature sometimes.  The longer in uniform, the smaller it feels like the military starts to get. Like the last time he deployed and went with SOCOM, he needed to deploy.  His career manager called and said, "You need to deploy and I'm sending you here."  But what ended up happening was that one of our soldier's past commanders was going with SOCOM and when he heard that our soldier needed to deploy, and because our soldier had worked for him before and he likes how he works, he said..."Nope, he's going with us" and took him.  And our soldier was happy for that because it added things to his resume that he really wanted on there.

    Parent
    Thanks; very interesting that she (none / 0) (#79)
    by Towanda on Tue Dec 20, 2011 at 10:59:04 AM EST
    came from that time and place, upstate New York aka the "Burnt-Over District" in the 1840s, that are so identified with the "Protestant impulse," the evangelical fervor that emerged from the Second Great Awakening and that led to the great reform movements of the 19th and early 20th centuries that so altered our Constitution and country -- and yet, she took a very Catholic path to accomplish different sorts of reforms.  (That is, consider that she probably passed the likes of Anthony, Stanton, and others on the streets of that region, yet she took a very different path.)

    Attention to her story now, with sainthood, could have some very interesting impacts upon the Protestant-biased interpretations of our history, as this argues for a wider and more ecumenical reading of what went on there and then.