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Why Didn't Obama Mention Medicare?

Very very strange reaction from the White House on Kathy Hochul's victory in the NY-26 special election:

President Obama congratulated the winner of Tuesday's special election in upstate New York, in a statement that didn't mention Medicare: "I want to extend my congratulations to Congresswoman-elect Kathy Hochul for her victory in New York's 26th Congressional District. Kathy and I both believe that we need to create jobs, grow our economy, and reduce the deficit in order to outcompete other nations and win the future. Kathy has shown, through her victory and throughout her career, that she will fight for the families and businesses in western New York, and I look forward to working with her when she gets to Washington."

Steve Israel said there were three issues in this race -- "Medicare, Medicare and Medicare." Obama could not say the word even one time. That's troubling.

Speaking for me only

< After NY-26, Will The Medicare Issue Scare The GOP? | NY-26: Hochul Mentions Medicare And Taxing The Rich >
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  • Display: Sort:
    What's the simplest explanation? (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 09:47:01 AM EST
    You know and I know that Obama understands the importance of Medicare in that election.
    There are only two possibilities: he IS a wimp, and wants to get along with Republicans, or he is PLAYING at being a wimp, to get what he wants.
    I find the first impossible to believe, anymore---his latest stance on Israel is anything  but wimpy.

    Face it, Obama wants to kill Medicare and SS.
    His rhetoric has always implied that possibility; his actions only reinforce the notion.

    Obama. Is. Conservative. (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Dadler on Wed May 25, 2011 at 09:47:47 AM EST
    Obama is the guy who won't go after the mortgage crisis because, in his words, despite corporate crime in the trillion dollar range, he doesn't want to reward a few people who might not deserve to keep their home.

    And he is still the guy who, deep in his addled mind, has a fantasy of the Republicans embracing him with open arms saying, "We love yo, you're right, come be with us forever," like his father never did.

    That he sounds more like a Republican trying to avoid the issue, par for the course -- a course, by the way, built on a toxic landfill.

    When (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:26:06 AM EST
    you accept the fact that Obama is a conservative things look a lot different don't they?

    Too bad the middle class is going to have to suffer as much under Obama as they would under almost any Republican.

    Parent

    Poor, working class, middle class, retirees, (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by jawbone on Wed May 25, 2011 at 05:28:07 PM EST
    children, the ill...us little people will all suffer.

    They'll all suffer perhaps MORE under Obama.  If a Republican were president, the DC Democrats would rise up and stand strong to protect Democratic values and the great accomplishments of earlier Dem presidents and Congresses. The Senate Majority leader would be proclaiming any attacks on Medicare and SocSec to "off the table."

    Under Obama, DC Dems are basically neutered. They try to talk about protecting Medicare -- and then Obama talks about cutting Medicare, saying it and Medicaid and SocSec are all "on the table." And then thef DC Dems look around, stutter, try to be firm, but, having been cut off at the knees, end up on the floor in a pool of quivering jelly.

    Dems can't criticize Obama too much without antagonizing a large Dem voting block, and they can't not criticize him without looking like they have no principles and will not work for the little people, the base of the Democratic Party.

    Wall Street has leveraged its big money pre-primary and early primary donatioms to Obama into a buy out of the Democratic Party.  Now, under Obama, they're stripping out the assets of party princples and accomplishments, and that severely damages the party and its pols who actually believe in the principles of the party.  Soon, the party, like many hollowed out corporations, after disappointing its loyal customers with shoddy service and merchandise, may simply fail.

    The Big Banksters and Hedgies didn't just get a winning candiate; they got, perhaps, an end to the semblance of a two party system. And they're the biggest money around and are calling the shots.

    Parent

    Yes, he is. (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Zorba on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:51:48 PM EST
    I have been saying that to people I know pretty much since the whole health "care" reform, when the public option totally disappeared off the table.

    Parent
    Short answer: because he intends to gut it. (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by scribe on Wed May 25, 2011 at 09:54:05 AM EST
    Long answer:  because he intends to gut it.

    Y'know, Barack, you didn't have to go to Columbia and Harvard Law to be an insurance salesman.  But that's what you've p*ssed those degrees away doing.  

    Steve Israel while stating (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:00:04 AM EST
    Medicare, Medicare, Medicare, was less reassuring when pressed by Ed Schultz last night that Democrats would not blow the issue by entering, at this time, into a Medicare benefit cut plan. He just repeated the triple Medicare mantra and stated that unlike the Republicans they would not end Medicare.  After a couple of attempts, Schultz let it go.

    He says (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by Warren Terrer on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:16:18 AM EST
    we have to reduce the deficit in order to outcompete other nations. In other words, he has no clue about economics.

    He left medicare out of the discussion because he plans to take a hatchet to it in order to reduce the deficit. Obama is a Reagan Democrat.

    Probably worse than that (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by TJBuff on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:12:18 PM EST
    The fact that he won't say it probably means the cuts are already part of the deal.  

    Parent
    I've been wondering whether Obama made some deals (none / 0) (#103)
    by jawbone on Wed May 25, 2011 at 05:32:49 PM EST
    with Repubs back when he was doing the dirty deed on extending (and augmenting) the Bush tax cuts.

    It was utterly stupid to not work out the debt ceiling while he was doing the Big Giveaway to the Repubs last December. At the time I feared he WANTED to use the debt ceiling to go after the safety nets, the great social programs of the 20th Century Democratic giants, FDR, JFK, LBJ.

    I probably noted that Obama seems to love making closed door deals and stay mum about them while lying to what he must view as stupid voters.

    Parent

    Oh, the dilemma...serious or snarky? (5.00 / 8) (#7)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:21:59 AM EST
    In keeping with the Obama strategy of choosing both sides, I'm going to be serious, but I'm probably also going to snark..

    Obama didn't mention Medicare because he knows what's coming - benefit cuts - and he doesn't want his fingerprints on it.  He didn't mention Medicaid, because that's probably going to end up being block-granted, which will have serious negative repercussions.  

    This is going to be health whatever reform all over again, where he stands off on the sidelines, watching his minions carrying out his agenda, with all the important stuff happening in back rooms and  behind closed doors out of the public view, waiting to see whether the result will be revered or reviled - and then he can tell us what he's "always said" and lecture us about the "notions that" we doctrinaire liberals hold that he can make fun of.

    He's probably practicing his presidential shoulder shrug for the "we did the best we could" part of his eventual explanation for why millions of Medicare recipients will be paying more for their care, and alternating with that looking-down-his-nose thing he does so well, or the casual and condescending chuckle he's so good at.

    The fix is once again in; count on it.


    Bingo (5.00 / 6) (#25)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:35:36 AM EST
    Obama didn't mention Medicare and focused on reducing the deficit because that is the direction that he plans to take.

    Corporations and the rich will get more tax cuts, millions of Medicare recipients will be paying more for their care and more and more people will be dropped or receive less from needed services like food assistance.

    Then after the Grand Bargain is struck we will be bombarded with choruses of "Poor, poor Obama. There was nothing else he could do. And btw, he is the most liberal president evah."


    Parent

    I'm wondering where his lil' (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by nycstray on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:42:21 AM EST
    cheerleaders are . . .

    Parent
    You jinxed it, you know... (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:01:10 PM EST
    he must have heard you calling, lol...

    Parent
    That (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:23:21 AM EST
    statement coming out of the WH shows how politically tone deaf they are. It sounds like a press release from the Republican National Committee.

    Just face the facts BTD: Obama is a conservative. He is a supply side reaganite economic conservative and you'll never be surprised or troubled about one thing that he says anymore.

    Please call the White House (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by Coral on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:34:32 AM EST
    I did this morning. They need to hear from us!

    Durbin (none / 0) (#20)
    by mmc9431 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:22:01 AM EST
    Your comeent reminded me that my Senator (Durbin) didn't respond to my letter regarding gutting Medicare. What I find troubling about this is that in the past, I've always got a response from his office. This time, it's been dead silence.

    Maybe it's a done deal and they're trying to figure out how to blame it on the Republicans?

    Parent

    Durbin says that Sen. Coburn (none / 0) (#22)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:29:25 AM EST
    changed his mind about the urgency of debt reduction.

    Parent
    Cop out (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by mmc9431 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:44:05 AM EST
    I told him I could never vote for a Democrat that worked to tear up the New Deal. I asked him if I had been mistaken by giving him my support all these years!

    One conversation with Colburn should not have erased all the years of people voting for him as their Democratic Senator.

    Parent

    Too many years of rich people telling (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:48:59 AM EST
    him that taxes are too high. It rots the brain.


    Parent
    Writing on the wall (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by mmc9431 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:52:50 AM EST
    I would have hoped that Obama's seat going to the Republicans would have served as a wake up call. Maybe he'll join the ranks of those that chose not to seek reelection next time around!

    I'm sure he has a great pension and healthcare plan no matter what happens to the little people.

    Parent

    I thought this was snark (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by waldenpond on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:11:56 AM EST
    Let's see... a Dem beats a Repub and the WH feeds the media by making clear Obama makes clear he cares nothing for medicare and Biden announces they've come up with $1 trillion in cuts.

    Obama. is. not. a. democrat. (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Bornagaindem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:12:47 AM EST
    in any sense that we understand the word. He did not mention it because he intends to gut it as much as any repug. He will just run around and say they made me do it. It has always been clear that social security and medicare will e eliminated by a so called democratic president and now the repugs understand that they have their champion. How else do you explain the appalling candidates they have fielded to run against Obama?

    Let's see: corporate donations (5.00 / 3) (#17)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:18:48 AM EST
    or small change from the little people?
    WWOD?

    He has to get votes too (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:19:46 AM EST
    Who is the most dependable voting block?

    Parent
    The people who vote for the candidate (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:30:09 AM EST
    with $1 billion in campaign funds, judging from the 2000, 2004 and 2008 elections.

    Parent
    If they do this (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:21:08 AM EST
    Can Feingold please announce that he is primarying Obama?  Please?

    The press release did not include the phrase (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by coast on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:20:06 PM EST
    "let me be clear".  Therfore I'll ignore it.

    I am having that sinking feeling (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:31:11 PM EST
    that it will not be long before we will come to long for the Ryan coupon scheme as the lesser of two evils. Ryan privatizes Medicare, shifting costs to tax payers and old timers and sends profits to the insurance industry, but it does give a little something until outpaced by the costs.

    The "bipartisan deal" likely to be struck will just increase deductibles and increase co-payments, and worse, turn Medicare into a means-tested program that will be an alternative way to end Medicare as we know it.  Clearly, the table Medicare is on is the chopping block, and Medicaid, well, that always was vulnerable as a welfare program, and it will soon be a goner with Medicare soon to follow. Obama and his Democratic lemmings seem determined  to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  Of course, it depends on what your definition of victory is.

    And...? (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by lentinel on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:56:15 PM EST
    "Medicare, Medicare and Medicare." Obama could not say the word even one time. That's troubling.

    It should be pretty clear by now that Obama doesn't care if we're troubled.

    As long as his critics have already said that we will support him for reelection he has no reason to respond to our needs.


    You get all of that (none / 0) (#66)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:02:40 PM EST
    because he didn't say medicaid in a 3-4 sentence press statement.

    wow.

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 3) (#98)
    by lentinel on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    actually think that this is an isolated example of Obama's mindset?

    wow.

    Parent

    Hey, did anyone check the (5.00 / 3) (#72)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:16:32 PM EST
    Obama website yet?
    What Obama says is not authoritative---you have to go to the url, man.

    It was in the first draft (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu May 26, 2011 at 12:08:26 AM EST
    but it got cut.


    Obama (1.00 / 0) (#30)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:51:38 AM EST
    It was a few sentence press release people. Simma down now. The fact that he didn't use the words medicare means nothing.  He'll be using it repeatedly in the coming months.  

    By the way, isn't this about the time that Obama and the Dems were supposed to be crashing and burning in the polls because of The Deal?  I thought Dems couldn't rely on the GOP to overreach?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/06/jobapproval-obama_n_726319.html?xml=http://pollster.com/fla shcharts/content/xml/Obama44JobApproval.xml&choices=Approve,Disapprove&phone=&ivr=DailyK os/PPP%2520(D),DailyKos/SEIU/PPP%2520(D),InsiderAdvantage,PPP%2520(D),SurveyUSA&internet=&mail=&smo othing=&from_date=2010-11-01&to_date=&min_pct=35&max_pct=65&grid=&points=&am p;trends=&lines=

    On the occasion of a decisive victory, (5.00 / 4) (#36)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:08:33 PM EST
    in a red district, where the issue was first, last and always Medicare, a president who believed in that fight would have taken the opportunity to say, "See?  This is how the electorate feels about Medicare: they like it, it works, they don't want to change it and they don't want to lose it.  We're facing tough economic times, and the last thing we should be doing in looking to make things worse for a lot of people.  That's why I support Kathy and why I look forward to working with her."

    There was no better time to take a stand for the preservation of Medicare and the preservation of its benefits - and he passed on it, not because there is plenty of time to talk about Medicare, but because it's hard to have the courage of one's convictions when one lacks both.

    Parent

    Oh he has convictions about Medicare (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by sj on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:33:58 PM EST
    They're just not the ones the beneficiaries would like.  So why not just pretend that embarassing little fact doesn't exist?


    Parent
    Oh, he has (none / 0) (#74)
    by Zorba on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:19:21 PM EST
    convictions.  It's just that those convictions happen to come from the Milton Friedman Chicago School of Economics perspective.  We should all have been warned when he expressed admiration for Ronald Reagan- he of the supply-side, trickle-down economics beliefs.  Obama is a neoliberal economically.  That's why he hasn't spoken about protecting and preserving Medicare.  That's why he hasn't spoken about raising taxes on the wealthy, or taking the income cap off of Social Security withholding.  They're not in his vocabulary.    

    Parent
    Obama goes whichever way the big (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:26:13 PM EST
    money wants to go, being careful to throw enough rhetorical bones at the unwashed masses so that they'll keep believing he's "doing the best he can under these difficult circumstances."

    That comes under the heading of "craven" in my book; it takes no courage, just an overwhelming need to win no matter who gets hurt in the process.

    Parent

    And the big money (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Zorba on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:37:01 PM EST
    is and has been on the side of the whole "Reaganomics" thing.  Don't tax the rich, if business does well, everyone else will do well, and so on.  Obama bought into this early on- he knows which side of the bread his butter is on.  I have long since stopped listening to his words (or lack thereof).  I look at what he has done, and from my perspective, it ain't pretty.

    Parent
    Um (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:25:02 PM EST
    you do realize Obama killed bin Laden right?  What point are you trying to make with polls?

    Parent
    Obama's (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:26:49 PM EST
    Ooof (5.00 / 4) (#67)
    by lentinel on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:04:26 PM EST
    Simma down now. The fact that he didn't use the words medicare means nothing.  He'll be using it repeatedly in the coming months.  

    A: Pretty pompous - telling people how to react to Obama's latest droop.

    I'm glad people are getting angry at having a government who cares so little for them.

    Simmered down, Obama can go on his merry self-serving road to political and financial gain without opposition from the public he disdains.

    B. You announce, with that hint that you are in a position to actually know something, what Obama will be saying in the coming months.

    Ultimately, as we have learned by now, it doesn't matter what he says.

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#31)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:52:11 AM EST
    Couldn't make the link function work and didn't realize it would do that.

    Parent
    when in doubt (none / 0) (#37)
    by CST on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:09:24 PM EST
    www.tinyurl.com

    it will format a longer link into something short.

    There is another way of doing it too that's really easy but I don't remember, I think you type LINK[] and paste the link in the bracket?  I usually just highlight whatever word and click the link button, then paste the link in there - but if that's not working for you (sometimes it needs permission) tinyurl is always an option.

    Parent

    The Deal (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:03:24 PM EST
    is a policy disaster which will lead to political problems because of cuts in the budget - (bad economic policy.)

    Perhaps you are not following the economic news very closely of late.

    Parent

    In fact, one could argue the reason (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Buckeye on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:29:47 PM EST
    we are have a Medicare discussion at all is b/c of our current tax policies that Obama could have reversed.  Even if the Dems are able to capitalize on Ryan's Medicare plan, we are still debating the terms on Republican grounds.  Ryan knows (as do the rest of the GOP) his plan has zero chance of ever passing.  However, if his efforts (along with Obama's on the deal) can make Simpson Bowles the new centrist position to "compromise" on, then Norquist wins even when Ryan "loses."

    Parent
    I've argued that (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:32:39 PM EST
    Norquist on all that.

    Parent
    Let's just be clear here (1.00 / 0) (#47)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:02:08 PM EST
    Medicare is going to change in some way.  I don't want anyone "I told you so"ing  me.

    How much and who it impacts are what we should be fighting about.

    Parent

    You (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:03:42 PM EST
    have already conceded the argument to the GOP then.

    Parent
    What argument? (1.00 / 1) (#59)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:21:38 PM EST
    If the Dem position is that changes to medicare in any way are unacceptable, then yes I have conceded that. I believe medicare will have to change.  I don't think it is sustainable as is.  What Obama is likely avoiding by mentioning medicare directly is the idea that any change to medicare is a GOP victory. He knows that change has to occur.  I don't think that is a GOP position.  I think that is the economic and political reality. The more we mark any change in medicare as a GOP goal, the more we empower the opposition.  Bill Clinton hit exactly the same siren just this week:

    This from the NYT just a moment ago:

    "Former President Bill Clinton, still widely considered one of his party's foremost politicians, said Democrats should cut a "reasonable" deal with Republicans on Medicare savings rather than conclude from Tuesday's upset in a special Congressional election that bashing Republicans on the issue is the key to a party comeback in 2012.

    Mr. Clinton's message, while more politically pointed, followed similar comments on Wednesday morning from Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner as both responded to a Democrat's capture of a conservative upstate New York district after a campaign that turned on House Republicans' budget plan to replace Medicare with a voucher system and dramatically reduce future federal health-care spending.

    "You shouldn't draw the conclusion that the New York race means that nobody can do anything to slow the rate of Medicare costs. I just don't agree with that," Mr. Clinton said at a budget forum sponsored by the Peter G. Peterson Foundation. Instead, he said, "you should draw the conclusion that the people made a judgment that the proposal in the Republican budget is not the right one. I agree with that."

    But Mr. Clinton said he feared that Democrats will conclude "that we shouldn't do anything. I completely disagree with that. I think there are a lot of things we can do to bring down Medicare costs."

    Indeed, liberal groups and liberal Democrats in Congress were claiming validation on Wednesday of their position against negotiating a deficit-reduction deal with Republicans that would touch the major entitlement-benefit programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, whose long-term costs are major drivers of future debt projections. They say the party should make the issues a rallying cry for the 2012 elections and potentially reclaim the House majority lost last fall. . . . Mr. Clinton, with some passion, returned to the topic at the end of an hour-long interview. "I think the Democrats are going to have to be willing to give up, maybe, some short-term political gain by whipping up fears on some of these things -- if it's a reasonable Social Security proposal, a reasonable Medicare proposal. We've got to deal with these things. You cannot have health care devour the economy.""

    Exactly.

    Parent

    I disagree (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:05:41 PM EST
    with this premise:

    What Obama is likely avoiding by mentioning medicare directly is the idea that any change to medicare is a GOP victory. He knows that change has to occur.

    I don't think touching Medicare is EVER seen as a victory, for anybody.  It's one thing to reform and improve Medicare, but if you're talking cuts, as we are now, that's political poison for everybody and anybody.  As the midterm elections demonstrated, and as last night's special election demonstrated.

    Parent

    Several things: (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:16:59 PM EST
    Please disabuse yourself of the idea that mentioning Bill Clinton's name is the equivalent of pouring oil on troubled liberal waters; Bill Clinton is unquestionably a highly intelligent individual with considerable experience, but he's not infallible, and as many have pointed out to you, he is not now, nor was he ever, a liberal.

    So, while Clinton believes some sort of deal needs to be made with Republicans on Medicare - and apparently on Social Security, too - others do not share that view; Clinton does not automatically get to be "right" just because he's Bill Clinton.  Stop throwing that particular bone at us - it's insulting.

    Next, once you buy into the idea that Medicare is not sustainable, you have opened the door to weakening the integrity of the program; you might as well say that the people whom Medicare support are not sustainable, either - they're old, for heaven's sake! - so we should stop throwing good money after bad and let nature take its inevitable course.  Because the reality is that once you decide that those in the program need to pay more for it now, that will be the go-to solution whenever it is determined that there is some sort of shortfall - until the time when there really isn't a program anymore.

    Until the day comes when these Republicans and Democrats start whining about how being in a constant state of war is not fiscally sustainable, I will continue to call BS on what amounts to a concerted and deliberate effort to undermine a program that seeks to assist an older population in obtaining quality health care they can afford, and maintaining a good quality of life after years of making contributions to the American economy.

    Parent

    IIRC, Clinton was in favor of (none / 0) (#80)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:32:01 PM EST
    SS privatization in the 90's.
    Clinton is or has become a corrupt plutocrat on economic issues, sorry to say.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:00:40 PM EST
    he wasn't. He wanted to take the surplus and put it into the SS trust fund.

    Parent
    Hmm.. don't have time to read (none / 0) (#95)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:21:05 PM EST
    right now, but there are lots of articles claiming Clinton favored privatization.
    Didn't he want to put some of the SS fund into the market---not individually, but en masse?

    Parent
    No, Clinton didn't (5.00 / 3) (#101)
    by mm on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:58:22 PM EST
    GOLDSTEIN (1/20/99): The largest part of the plan would pour nearly two-thirds of the federal surplus into Social Security over the next 15 years, and invest a portion of that money in the market. While shifting some money into stocks, this approach would satisfy liberals by leaving intact the program's basic character as a safety net that provides a guaranteed monthly retirement check to all Americans.

    The other part of the initiative would create a new type of individual savings program, devoting $500 billion from the federal surplus to give most working people seed money to open their own retirement accounts. The government also would help match people's personal investments as they built up those accounts over time, giving more money to those with low incomes. This approach might satisfy GOP desires to rest more of the nation's retirement system on private savings accounts, though it would not go so far as to privatize the Social Security system itself.

    [...]

    The plan Clinton laid out is the most recent phase of an effort he began a year ago to find a way to safeguard the long-term future of Social Security--and to make reform of the nation's largest entitlement programs, including Medicare, a part of his legacy.

    In last year's State of the Union address, he challenged Congress not to spend any of the budget surplus until the government dealt with Social Security, an idea resented by many Republicans who favor using at least a portion of the money for a tax cut. Clinton then began to try to galvanize public support to restructure the retirement system by convening a series of "town meetings" and a White House conference last month.

    Started in the depths of the Depression in 1935, Social Security is expected to run out of money [sic] when the trust fund that pays retirees' checks [sic] is depleted in the year 2032. The program is funded through payroll taxes and right now has more money coming in than it pays out to retirees. But that will change once the baby boom generation begins retiring in about a decade.

    With the shift of $2.7 trillion from the projected surplus to the trust fund, and the expected higher earnings from the stock market, the White House estimates the program would remain solvent until 2055.

    Clinton said he would like to find ways to make the program last until 2075, but White House officials did not name any of the more painful steps that would almost certainly be required to do that, such as cutting benefits or making people wait longer to enter the program.

    In fact, the White House plan would make the basic program more generous and presumably slightly more expensive. It would increase benefits for widows and eliminate a provision that now phases out Social Security payments for beneficiaries who continue to work and earn more than a specified amount.

    The administration did not specify exactly how much money the government would give people for their private savings accounts, which would be funded using 11 percent of the budget surplus over the next 15 years. The basic idea is that the government would give a flat sum to everyone who decided to open an account. Then, trying to address liberal beliefs that the poor deserve more help, the program would create a sliding scale to match some or all of the personal money that people invested in their accounts.

    Gene Sperling, Clinton's top economic aide, said that the program would not be available to those with the highest incomes but that most working families would qualify.

    Even relatively liberal policy experts who praised the concept said it had a flaw. "My biggest concern is, how do you keep such a program going if the surplus goes away?" said Marilyn Moon, an Urban Institute economist and public trustee of the Social Security system.

    Let's review:

    In the 1998 State of the Union, Clinton said the projected federal surpluses should be applied to Social Security's long-range balance sheet. In this way, he blocked the House GOP's proposal for a large tax cut.

    In 1999, he made his full proposal: 62 percent of those federal surpluses would be used to strengthen the program's finances, thus extending the life of Social Security by some twenty years. Some of that money would be invested in the stock market--but it would be invested as a federal fund under federal direction, not as part of individual "private accounts." Other funds would be used to help citizens establish savings accounts--savings accounts which would operate in addition to their regular Social Security benefits, which would not be cut.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#97)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:23:52 PM EST
    but I don't think that's considered privatization. The conservatives sure were yelling about it and calling it "communism".

    Parent
    This just (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:03:52 PM EST
    sounds like Clinton giving cover to Obama.

    Secondly, Clinton beat the bloody h*ll out of the GOP over this issue. So what he actually did in office is quite different than what he's saying here.

    Parent

    That must be the most waffly statement (none / 0) (#61)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:36:11 PM EST
    I've ever seen from Clinton, which is saying a lot, obviously.
    There is no clue what "reasonable" means in this context; you can't infer that he is proposing cuts, although it's possible that's what he's trying to avoid saying.
    Anyway, Clinton is not an economic authority.


    Parent
    But Clinton is a democrat that probably knows more about the issue (and what can be done about it).  

    Look, all I am saying is that there are reasonable democrats who aren't closeted republicans who believe that we may need to make changes.

    I reference Clinton only to underscore how ridiculous the "you disagree so you must be a republican" meme is.

    And to emphasize the fact that this pattern of saying someone is not an economic expert only when they disagree with your opinion is not healthy.

    I have no idea who any of you people are and from what I know of the bios of BTD and Jeralyn (and to be fair, any blogger outside of Atrios and a few other real economists) we are all talking a bit above our heads.

    But that doesn't mean that points can't be made, debates had and a merry time had by all.

    Parent

    You have stated many times that you (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:01:39 PM EST
    know virtually nothing about economics.
    I have no idea what kind of self-image it takes for you to lecture others about economics, given your self-professed lack of expertise.
    Perhaps your degree ends with an ".ed"?

    That aside, Clinton's statement can't be taken as proof of anything at all, except that he is a master of saying nothing.

    Parent

    Well, it was at the Pete Petersen (none / 0) (#84)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:55:20 PM EST
    Foudation, after all- with its likely group think. (I wonder how many advocated for increased taxes and to leave social security alone for the next 25 years)

    And where was the discussion that Medicare costs go up because health care costs go up and health care costs go up greater than inflation because of advances in health care.   Ryan's scheme does not address escalating health care costs, it just shifts the increasing costs to the individual--the former president is opposed to that scheme.

    However, cutting benefits will also reduce Medicare costs (the greater the cuts, the more Medicare saves) but it, too, shifts the costs from the government to the individual. Both shift costs, both will result in rationing by different mechanisms and neither reduces health care costs. Both treat health care advances as an economic problem.  Indeed, the topic needs less political science and more health care science.  

    Parent

    Well, it was at the Pete Petersen (none / 0) (#85)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:56:06 PM EST
    Foudation, after all- with its likely group think. (I wonder how many advocated for increased taxes and to leave social security alone for the next 25 years)

    And where was the discussion that Medicare costs go up because health care costs go up and health care costs go up greater than inflation because of advances in health care.   Ryan's scheme does not address escalating health care costs, it just shifts the increasing costs to the individual--the former president is opposed to that scheme.

    However, cutting benefits will also reduce Medicare costs (the greater the cuts, the more Medicare saves) but it, too, shifts the costs from the government to the individual. Both shift costs, both will result in rationing by different mechanisms and neither reduces health care costs. Both treat health care advances as an economic problem.  Indeed, the topic needs less political science and more health care science.  

    Parent

    Well, it was at the Pete Petersen (none / 0) (#87)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:59:33 PM EST
    Foundation sponsored event after all- with its likely group think or attempts for everyone to get along (I wonder how many advocated for increased taxes and to leave social security alone for the next 25 years)

    And where was the discussion that Medicare costs go up because health care costs go up and health care costs go up greater than inflation because of advances in health care.   Ryan's scheme does not address escalating health care costs, it just shifts the increasing costs to the individual--the former president is opposed to that scheme.

    However, cutting benefits will also reduce Medicare costs (the greater the cuts, the more Medicare saves) but it, too, shifts the costs from the government to the individual. Both shift costs, both will result in rationing by different mechanisms and neither reduces health care costs. Both treat health care advances as an economic problem.  Indeed, the topic needs less political science and more health care science.  

    Parent

    Well, it was at the Pete Petersen (none / 0) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:05:38 PM EST
    Foundation sponsored event after all- with its likely group think or attempts for everyone to get along (I wonder how many advocated for increased taxes and to leave social security alone for the next 25 years)

    And where was the discussion that Medicare costs go up because health care costs go up and health care costs go up greater than inflation because of advances in health care.   Ryan's scheme does not address escalating health care costs, it just shifts the increasing costs to the individual--the former president is opposed to that scheme.

    However, cutting benefits will also reduce Medicare costs (the greater the cuts, the more Medicare saves) but it, too, shifts the costs from the government to the individual. Both shift costs, both will result in rationing by different mechanisms and neither reduces health care costs. Both treat health care advances as an economic problem.  Indeed, the topic needs less political science and more health care science.  

    Parent

    Sorry, for my computer glitch. (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by KeysDan on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:07:34 PM EST
    It was a good comment, I thought, but admittedly not that good.

    Parent
    LOL. I didn't think my comment was (none / 0) (#96)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:21:58 PM EST
    worth 4 replies.

    Parent
    He is parsing words (none / 0) (#108)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed May 25, 2011 at 07:27:06 PM EST
    annoying to me as one who would like Clinton & others who care about the social safety net to take a stand -- it's getting way beyond the 11th hour, and if some do not speak up, and soon, we'll certainly be beyond the point of no return on maintaining a society that provides any meaningful care of the elderly, the sick and the poor.  Kinda like the parsing of language Clinton did at the press conference on "The Deal", where Clinton said that was the best deal Pres. O could get... but did not say ....  


    Parent
    And I think (none / 0) (#69)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:08:45 PM EST
    Clinton should shut his mouth.  He should know better.

    Parent
    Let's just be clear here (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Warren Terrer on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:34:17 PM EST
    Obama says he wants to reduce the deficit. He long ago gave up on stimulus and became a fully fledged Republican on this issue. Reducing the deficit will not create a single job, and will shrink the economy. Obama is a failure on the economy. But who needs a job now that Osama bin Laden is dead?

    Parent
    Your thoughts on this (none / 0) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:11:55 PM EST
    are of no interest to me frankly.

    In fact, I doubt Medicare is going to change at all in the next 2 years.

    The problem is if President Obama wants to do it after winning reelection.

    A GOP President won't come near it imo.

    Parent

    Right (none / 0) (#60)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:25:49 PM EST
    BTD. Because I know nothing about the topic. yada yada yada.

    That's the cowards way of addressing an opposing position to be blunt.

    Knowing that, I just gave you Bill Clinton making the same argument today that I just made.

    Perhaps if the words come from someone else's mouth, you can address them directly instead of avoiding the points to attack the credibility of someone you know nothing about.

    Then again who knows. Maybe your point is that Bill Clinton knows nothing about such issues. Puts me in good company.

    Parent

    Watch what Clinton did (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:11:23 PM EST
    Not what he says NOW.

    Parent
    Please (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by NYShooter on Wed May 25, 2011 at 06:31:17 PM EST
    show me where B. Clinton stated he wanted to cut benefits for seniors and/or, for all practical purposes, eliminate medicaid.

    When Clinton says "fix," he means fix. When Obama says "fix," he means cut.

    You really should not project Obama's Republican  position onto the former President.

    Parent

    Ad hominen attacks or praise (none / 0) (#112)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed May 25, 2011 at 08:08:13 PM EST
    do not make persuasive arguments

    Parent
    I follow (2.00 / 1) (#46)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:58:47 PM EST
    economic news very closely.

    There are two separate questions.  The economic and the political.

    We simply disagree on the economic stuff and discussions of that serve only to allow folks to shout their completely unprovable positions at each other.

    The politics are more interesting. It was boldly asserted that unless the unemployment number started dropping very rapidly, we'd also see a drop in poll numbers for the dems. I argued that that was silly.  What would matter more was the direction people thought the country was taking and which party looked more reasonable and sane.

    That's exactly what's happening. The unemployment numbers are coming down slowly. But we're moving in the right direction. Combine that with the contrast provided by the extremists on the right who have taken over, and you end up with the win last night in New York, approval of all the GOP down, Obama's numbers up and the GOP nomination in disarray.

    Dem pragmatism v. GOP extremism gave us the victory in NY last night.  

    No one expects miracles. They just expect good leadership willing to work through issues reasonable and logically.  

    But again, very strong and definitive predictions were made about what would happen to Obama and the Dems (and continue to be made). If the dems make a big come back and Obama is re-elected, it'll be a clear indication that many have the politics wrong.

    And that looks to be what is happening.

    Parent

    The above post is why people think (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by Buckeye on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:13:29 PM EST
    your understanding of economics is weak and causes you to make arguments based on false premises (which makes discussion difficult).  For example, you said:

    That's exactly what's happening. The unemployment numbers are coming down slowly. But we're moving in the right direction.

    Unemployment is not coming down.  It was 9.8% last November.  It dropped to 9.0% at the end of December due to calculation changes, not job growth.  600,000 people quit looking for work (numerator declined) and 1.2 million people were added due to census (denominator increased).  Where is unemployment now?  9.0%.  We are adding just enough jobs to keep up with population growth and that is it.  We are setting records for the amount of time the average person spend unemployed.  Further, the jobs that are being created suck (very low pay and many without benefits).

    If you do not believe me, read Krugman.  Or this from Krugman.

    Money quote:

    Yes, the official unemployment rate has fallen. But this is the result less of job creation than of a fall in the labor force participation rate; the employment-population ratio has been flat:

    Q1 2011 was the worst quarter for housing in 3 years.  Commodity inflation including oil prices are way up.  Consumer confidence is still in the toilet.  Austerity is coming from state and federal governments as budget cuts start kicking in.  

    The economy is not improving, it is getting worse.  I know you really want Obama to win and be considered a successful President.  I get that.  But it cannot be wished for and spun into existence.  A successful Presidency must be rooted in successful policy and governance, and with a few exceptions (Bin Laden, DADT), this has not been a successful Presidency.

    Parent

    Your complete disregard for anything but (5.00 / 4) (#106)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 06:06:39 PM EST
    "the politics" continues to astound me.

    At this point, all I'm waiting for is the announcement that Booman has added you as a regular contributor.

    Parent

    Meh (none / 0) (#49)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:10:10 PM EST
    This is not interesting to me. I do not know or care what "some people said."

    I know what I said.

    Go argue with "some people," not me.

    Parent

    Confidence about the 2012 (none / 0) (#111)
    by BackFromOhio on Wed May 25, 2011 at 08:01:57 PM EST
    election could be dangerous.  Wait 'til the Repubs nominate their candidates for Pres and VP, and the Repubs focus on attacking the Admin.  Jon Huntsman, in particular, could be a true threat to Dem reelection hopes. Telling quote from recent story at Time:

    Representative quote: "The most important thing you will do with your education or that I will do as an elected official is to improve the human condition -- through better economic opportunity, education, quality of life and security -- regardless of which side of the Pacific we came from."

    Link
     

    Parent

    Mentioning the discriminating factor in the race (none / 0) (#5)
    by ruffian on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:03:30 AM EST
    is so divisive. Very 'old kind of politics'.

    If he talked, he'd have to act (none / 0) (#10)
    by mmc9431 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:29:25 AM EST
    Far be it for Obama to take a stand and be devisive. It might cost him 100 Republican votes in 2012.

    Democrats are relying on our fear of the big bad tea baggers way too much. Rebublicans have given the Democrats 2012 on a silver platter. If they're too stupid to realize this, then maybe they shouldn't be in power.

    If he goes along with the plans to gut Medicare, Republicans will control everything in 2012.

    Very true (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:34:20 AM EST
    I doubt that fear of "tea baggers" would have done anything for Hochul in NY-26.

    But you also have to remember that Obama doesn't really campaign on issues. With Obama it's all about him. It's all personal to him. Issues just aren't that important.

    Parent

    Hochul wants to keep Medicare as it is (none / 0) (#13)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed May 25, 2011 at 10:59:36 AM EST

    Obama OTOH, is cutting it to the tune of $500 billion to fund Obama care.  They are not on the same page.

    As Joe Biden leads the 3rd round (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:17:20 AM EST
    of deficit negotiations, they are going to phuck this one up too.  How can they make such competent decisions on one battlefield and so completely get their arses handed to them on another?  I don't get it

    Is Anne and many others correct?  Does Obama really want to erode the social safety net away?  Are his own personal beliefs that conservative?  Has he noticed that the countries thusfar who have weathered this economic crisis well all had the best social safety nets?  Has he noticed that we aren't in anything anyone could call a recovery unless they are B.S.ing?  Does he think that eroding the services of those who MUST have them will spur a recovery....if so, he's completely out of his fricken mind.  Regulating banks and Wall Street will do more to spur economic growth than cutting all the grannies off.  Cutting grannies off hacks on the aggregate demand, and that is where we are broken right now.

    My Take (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by ScottW714 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:36:37 AM EST
    He doesn't want to erode it, but he's not going battle over it either.  Seems like whichever way is going to secure 2012 is where he is going to stand.

    I disagree about him being conservative, I think he is letting the dittoheads set the tone and buying into way too much of their mularky for the sake of bipartisanship(hurts to even type that word anymore).  Tax for the rich are good, Medicare and SS are in crisis, all the same non-sense.  

    IMO his views are irrelevant if he's going to cave to the republicans, he might as well be a conservative if everything he touches ends up to their liking.

    Parent

    I partially agree (none / 0) (#53)
    by Warren Terrer on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:47:55 PM EST
    with you. I think Obama would like to keep the safety net and make it even better. In that sense he's not a Republican.

    But he sees economics entirely through a conservative lens. He believes that the safety net is good, but sadly we can't afford it, so we'll have to cut back on it in order to balance that budget. He thinks this is being responsible.

    In addition he believes that giving more money to elites via bailouts and tax cuts will stir their entrepreneurial zeal and save the economy, another nonsensical GOP belief which completely ignores the critical role that fiscal policy plays in the economy. He's completely bought into the nonsense that the government is just like a household and must balance its budgets or go broke.

    So regardless of what he might want to happen to the social safety net in an ideal world, Obama is willing, if not eager, to sacrifice it if he thinks that will get him the grand bargain on the budget, i.e. deficit reduction, that he so desperately wants.

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#57)
    by ScottW714 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    That's makes more sense.

    Off topic a bit.  

    "He's completely bought into the nonsense that the government is just like a household and must balance its budgets or go broke."

    I totally agree with the household budget theory, but the thing that is never mentioned is like a household budget, money has to be spent to continue to get that income.  If that car breaks down, spend the bucks to make sure the job isn't lost.  If the fridge is empty, fill it, because people need to eat in order to bring in income.  Ditto for promotion, maybe buy some suits or take some classes, whatever, but spending money to ensure future income increases is a must.  Like a household budget, certain federal expenditures are needed to ensure a steady income with the hopes of increasing that income through manageable and needed expenditures.

    But that is never discussed in conservative rights, it's cut and slash from the clowns who had to spend a great deal of household income to get them elected, either though personnel contributions or resigning their job to campaign.  It's clearly investment for the future, like the the Federal Budget.

    Anyways, it just bugs me how they have dominated the household budget arguement w/o having to really explain it practically and how Dems seem more than happy to let their BS float.

    Parent

    The household budget theory is crap. (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 08:14:39 PM EST
    The US budget is NOT like a household budget, but manipulating the people into believing that it is is exactly how they get people to buy into the need to cut spending.

    Please take a few minutes to read this post at Corrente, and follow the links; it really is all in the framing, and once you understand that, you can see how the powers-that-be are manipulating the public into buying into a completely false set of assumptions.

    Here's one excerpt from the post:

    A little credit card debt doesn't hurt

    Government debt is not credit card debt. It is not even remotely like credit card debt. First, the interest rate is far lower than it is on credit card debt. Second, credit card customers don't get to set the interest rates they pay. The Government, however, has that power and can drive these rates down to close to zero, if it follows that policy. Third, credit card customers can't create the money they use to pay their debts, but the Government can.

    Fourth, credit card debt is a liability for a household that lowers a household's net worth, but Government debt, while a liability, doesn't lower the US Government's net worth, because what value can you place on the authority to make the money you need to pay off Government debt? Fifth, credit card debt doesn't create any new financial assets in the private sector, but Government debt issuance, coupled with deficit spending does add net financial assets,  making the private sector richer.

    The more you know, the better able you are to counter the "conventional wisdom."

    Parent

    Why on the battlefield and not at home (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Dadler on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:53:41 AM EST
    Because, frankly, it is much easier to shoot one guy in the head, one guy everyone hates and no one will really give you any heat for killing or even TRYING to kill.

    However, domestically, to do what must be done for the betterment of the country, Obama must do things that will cause him to suffer the slings and arrows he despises most, and thus the ones he never lets himself face in reality (Republican reality being another realm entirely).  IOW, because, on the battlefield he acted in a manner a vast majority of people have no problem with, while at home he is not the kind of pol or person inclined to act in a boldly progressive manner because, in fact, he doesn't believe in bold politics, because that is too divisive and nasty, and yap yap yap, and because of this, ultimately, he's a conservative.  What you think is good to do abroad, he did.  What you think is good to do here, he doesn't and won't.

    Parent

    Of course Obama doesn't want to do that-- (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by observed on Wed May 25, 2011 at 12:14:39 PM EST
    He wants to acquiesce while congress does it.


    Parent
    Disagree (none / 0) (#21)
    by ScottW714 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:22:11 AM EST
    Obama's home run chant is going to be Osama, Osama, Osama.  

    Congress will chant Medicare, Medicare, Medicare.

    Pretty sure it's a good time to step back and let Ryan & Company dig deeper, hopefully get Romney & Pawlenty on board.  Let those fools dig in and get behind the Ryan plan, then when it actually counts, start beating the Medicare drum.

    Hammering them with it now is only going to shift their positions to something more agreeable.

    That may be what's going on (none / 0) (#23)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 11:29:45 AM EST
    I can see that.  But it hinges on whether Romney and TPaw get on board with Ryan's Plan.  TPaw is a dolt so I can see that happening but Romney might be a little smarter.  So if you don't say anything now, and nobody falls into your trap, you've lost an opportunity to define yourself.

    Parent
    Pretty Sure Mittens... (none / 0) (#54)
    by ScottW714 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:49:10 PM EST
    ... has to board that train.  His threading of Health Care didn't seem to float in the circles he needs.  Pawlenty is on board with beheadings if someone told him that it was a party line.

    I am trying to decipher his behavior.  He says things that any normal ration person would be lead to believe are liberals, then his actions are clearly in opposition.  He doesn't do anything as expected, and he seems fine with ticking off the base and trying to coddle the people who hate him.

    He's an enigma, my only hope is that Bush has 4 good years(for conservatives) and 4 bad ones.  Maybe these are Obama's bad ones, and the next four will be pure liberal bliss.  Wishful thinking, but I need something to keep my sanity, because four more of this is hard to swallow.

    Parent

    Obama Doesn't Care ! (none / 0) (#52)
    by samsguy18 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 01:35:49 PM EST
    This man is only driven by self interest. Medicare will take a hit ! On a daily basis I've noticed the numbers of the uninsured continue to grow significantly....medicaid is their only choice. Despite all the BS unemployment numbers are still high....I do believe he will use the  medicaid crisis as an excuse to erode medicare. Personally I am glad Paul Ryan continues the discussion.  

    WTF again? (none / 0) (#56)
    by TJBuff on Wed May 25, 2011 at 02:09:02 PM EST
    This election must be conflicting with the Beltway CW that rightie independents care about the deficit.

    He also didn't say the word pudding. (none / 0) (#75)
    by Farmboy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:22:29 PM EST
    Why is he against this delicious, creamy dessert? Is this part of a larger, pro-custard campaign? Why won't someone think of the children!

    Seriously, though. Obama also didn't mention the TP candidate who stole 9% of the vote away from the GOP. Do you find that troubling as well?

    If Obama's statement (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:27:34 PM EST
    wasn't to make some sort of point, then why did he make a statement at all?  

    Parent
    The statement had a simple point. (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Farmboy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:21:03 PM EST
    He was saying congrats to a pol who won an election. Presidents, regardless of their stripe, are fastidious about things like that.

    Parent
    Mmm hmm (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:51:01 PM EST
    "Kathy and I both believe that we need to create jobs, grow our economy, and reduce the deficit in order to outcompete other nations and win the future."

    All I asked for was a "preserve Medicare" clause. Its absence was conspicuous.

    That you want to wish away its conspicuousness is on you, not me.

    See my previous post.

    Parent

    I had a sense from Obama's statement (none / 0) (#105)
    by Anne on Wed May 25, 2011 at 05:59:30 PM EST
    that what he was really saying was, "Not to worry - we'll get her to DC and have a little come-to-Jesus meeting and she'll be on board before you can say 'who cares about old people?'"

    Like I said somewhere here today, this reveling-in-victory has a very short shelf-life, since once it becomes clear that the Dems are just taking the scenic route to where the Republicans want to go, the voters are going to be left with a distinct feeling that there isn't enough of a difference in essential ideology on this issue to make it important to get out and vote (D).

    Parent

    Are you sure (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by sj on Wed May 25, 2011 at 09:53:41 PM EST
    the Dems are taking the scenic route?  It seems to me that they're on the freeway to where the R's want to go.  If the R's were in the driver's seat this effort would be proceeding much more slowly with some level of pushback from the Dems.  Now whenever a Dem in Congress speaks out in defense of Medicare, O cuts them off at the knees at puts it right back on the table.

    Parent
    I suppose what I meant by "scenic route" (none / 0) (#116)
    by Anne on Thu May 26, 2011 at 07:09:37 AM EST
    was that there is so much mixed messaging that leads people to think the Dems are "fighting" for Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security when, it seems to me, they really aren't.  Because instead of just flat-out saying that these programs have to be protected from those who really want to end them, they are conceding a point here and a point there in an affort to appear "reasonable" and "willing to work with" the GOP.  For reasons that I don't understand, the Dems seem to think it helps to agree with the GOP that "something has to be done," and now all they're doing is arguing over what that should be.

    They're both going the same place, and I'm not convinced that if the GOP was in the driver's seat that there would be all that much pushback from Dems - there are just too many conservative Democrats in the Congress now, and that conservative fiscal message seems to be the one that is driving this whole goat rodeo.

    Parent

    Yep (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:28:44 PM EST
    Pudding and Medicare were similarly important issues in that election.

    Good point.

    Parent

    You know what else was important in this election? (none / 0) (#86)
    by Farmboy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:57:47 PM EST
    Votes. And the Tea Party stole enough of them away from the GOP to give the Democratic candidate the win. So she gets pudding.

    BTW, the memo was boiler plate. "Congrats, INSERT WINNER'S NAME HERE, we share many points of view, common goals, see you in DC, yadda, yadda." It wasn't the SotU, and wasn't meant to be. But as you're intent on proving a negative, have fun.

    Parent

    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:09:12 PM EST
    If this floats your boat.

    Parent
    Just answering your original question (none / 0) (#99)
    by Farmboy on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:47:25 PM EST
    And I understand completely that the pundit script says the vote was a referendum on Medicare. But FYI, votes win elections, and the results show that the Tea Party candidate pulled enough votes away from Corwin for Hochul to win.

    Consider: if Medicare swung the results, then why did only 12% of republican voters switch to Hochul? Shouldn't that number have been larger? 8% of democratic voters went to Corwin. Shouldn't that have been less? The data just doesn't support the media thesis.

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    Data never supports the media thesis. (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 05:34:59 PM EST
    But that's never stopped politicians or the media.

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    Is that how you play politics? (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by lilburro on Wed May 25, 2011 at 04:13:35 PM EST
    "There were a number of factors leading to my election, such as the weather on voting day, my opponent's opponent, and so forth.  I was barely elected so please don't think this means anything or has anything to do with the policies I ran on.  Thank you."

    If Obama's just keeping his powder dry, fine.  Ignoring this encouraging election is silly though.

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    Had pudding (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by jbindc on Wed May 25, 2011 at 03:35:21 PM EST
    Been the main issue of the campaign, and he didn't mention it, then yes, it might be an issue with Democrats.  When everyone says the election was specifically about "Medicare" and it isn't mentioned by the leader of the party, then something is fishy.

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    Tuesday's exit polls showed that (none / 0) (#117)
    by Farmboy on Thu May 26, 2011 at 09:35:25 AM EST
    jobs and the economy were the top issues for the voters in NY26. Yet the Very Serious People on Wednesday want you to hear the word "medicare" over and over because that's the word of the day. That's what I call fishy.

    Yes, Ryan's plan to kill Medicare is reviled nationally. Yes, a dem won a traditionally gop district. Correlation is not causation.

    And why pudding? To point out the absurdity of shaming Obama for not fallowing the media script. The dem ran on a centrist platform of "I won't let illegal immigrants take your jobs" and "let's strengthen the economy by ending tax cuts for the rich." Either of those issues fall anywhere near medicare? Yet both of those topics were mentioned in Obama's congrats statement. Imagine that.

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    Defying logic (none / 0) (#109)
    by mmc9431 on Wed May 25, 2011 at 07:30:59 PM EST
    According to a current CNN article:

    Republican congressional candidates crushed their Democratic counterparts among voters age 65 and older in the November congressional elections, carrying seniors by a 21-point margin.

    If this is true, what ever would possess Republicans to take them on before the election? It defies logic.

    The only thing I can think of is that they're hoping to force Democrats to do the dirty work for them.

    If Democrats hold strong on this issue, they'll wipe out that 21%.

    Republican often tell you exactly (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by MO Blue on Wed May 25, 2011 at 07:47:34 PM EST
    what they are up to.

    It subverts accountability.

    This was the year after the bipartisan agreement between Reagan and O'Neill raised the retirement age for Social Security. I do not exaggerate when I say I was not asked about it a single solitary time. Not once in the course of a whole race. And the reason was that they did it together. When you do something together, the result is that it's not usable in the election. I think there's an understanding that if there's a grand bargain, none of it will be usable in next year's election.

    McConnell wants a bipartisan "grand bargain" because that allows politicians to take unpopular actions that are in direct opposition to the will of the electorate. Since the two parties have rigged the system to stop other parties from being viable, as long as Democrats and Republicans do these terrible things together, they will pay no political price. link  



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