Your turn.
Open Thread.
Make a new account
They said they expect growth to pick up through the summer and into the fall and we can expect that the economy will progress all the way from "dismal" to "sluggish".
I'm psyched.
Here are some photos of Germany, Istanbul, and Barcelona. I took all of these with my fairly terrible camera phone, but I don't own any other camera and it's easy to carry around. Istanbul was the hardest to capture, but I think I got a few good ones.
It's been a whirlwind few weeks, and I've enjoyed every minute, but I am looking forward to sitting still for a bit. I've got a lot to absorb, a lot to figure out, and a lot to look forward to. It's time to come back to real life, hopefully with a little more perspective and some ideas for the future. I've always wanted a more international life in some way, and this trip has only cemented that.
Istanbul is so beautiful. And so is Barcelona. I do so want to visit both cities. Parent
It is amazing, although to be honest I think we spent a bit too much energy in day 1 chasing monuments, since we only had two days here. It would have been nice to sit and absorb it a bit more, which is what we did today at La Sagrada Familia (which I now realize I've been misspelling all day - oops). Parent
The voice-over said something like, "Due to certain changes in health laws, some preventative treatments are now available to you. But, don't do it because there are no co-pays, or deductibles. Do it because everyone deserves a healthier tomorrow."
Brought to you by something Gov't.org.
I'm beginning to think "Obamacare" is, and will become, a bigger deal than I previously thought. My first impression in watching this ad was, "This" is what the government should be doing for its people. And, if it's allowed to survive, and as more people become familiar with even some of the services, it will be harder to kill it in the future.
There is no co-pay now.
Maybe others will be covered in the future, but I don't think they are now. The ad seems misleading. But then most ads are. Parent
I also want to order their Cream of Rye online.
The 10 grain, one serving provided 20 percent of the RDA for fiber. I like the taste and texure.
Either suger, or as I discovered today, pancake syrup, makes me a happy person. It's delicious, and has a great grainy texture.
I like my hot cereals with a touch of brown sugar or real maple syrup and walnuts and dried cherries or dried cranberries. Parent
I love walnuts. It is a happy accident that they are good for me. I toss them in cereal, into bowls of fruit and yogurt, into salads. Just love them. Parent
No jumping the gun, Zorba. If people don't respect the boundaries society has set for the dumping of unwanted gourds, well, what kind of country will we be then? Parent
Tomatoes will be coming in in earnest in the next week - we just can't wait for all-things-tomato! Parent
I'm still p!ssed at the birds/snails/and yes, even Roxy! for 2 rounds of garden destruction and a rocky 3rd start . . . {sigh} Parent
Probably too late this year but there is always next year! Parent
Problem with the dog is, she normally respects boundaries, like I can lean a baby gate against a doorway that she could easily jump and she doesn't. In the yard, she normally respects the veggie bed boundaries, except when she thinks she's an agility star and goes on a round of jumping the fencing . . . I thought of blocking the whole area off, but that would cut down on her leg stretching room . . . Oh, the things we do for a spotty monster pup :) Parent
I planted a hybrid this year. The pods are longer but smaller around and taste delicious. Parent
I like it in gumbo but my boss doesn't. Parent
Elections Canada requires you to:
show one piece of government identification which shows your photo, name and residential address (e.g. a driver's licence)
or
show two pieces of identification from an authorized list, with both containing your name, and one your residential address
be vouched for by a voter whose name appears on the voters list in the same polling division who has acceptable pieces of ID. Both of you will have to make a sworn statement.
And I love how conservatives who yammer about "government is not the solution" have now embraced that "government is the solution". Parent
The number of Canadians who manage to not be covered who couldn't meet the requirement has to be a very tiny sliver of a fraction of a slice of the overall potential electorate, perhaps numbering in the hundreds nationwide, whereas estimates of eligible voters in the US affected by GOP voter suppression laws numbers some 5 million voters in various states. Parent
Quite a contrast with some of these Republicant voter suppression laws in key states which demand govt issued photo IDs (affecting the poor and minorities and non-driving elderly), some requiring current names (impacting many recently married women).
It's no secret what the GOP is doing, as that PA Repub state legislator recently let slip. This is all about handing the WH and Congress to the Repubs by preventing enough Dems from voting in enough swing states. Just an updated version of the old Jim Crow voting laws in the South. Parent
Used to be easy to cash a check without ID, sign it over to a friend with a bank account, or the neighborhood bar would cash it for ya at Happy Hour. But the banks have gotten kinda funny about accepting checks endorsed by others from their account holders. Used to be standard stuff, now its a big hassle if they will do it at all. Parent
I'm waiting for the shoe to drop on tax returns too... Parent
I can stomach a small local business profiting off of my labor a lot easier than a big bank or pre-paid debit card outfit...not to mention those debit cards take a bite out of the local vendor's profits everytime you swipe. A double leechery whammy. Parent
Already, there are many places that help poor and elderly for free or a very nominal fee - churches, civic groups, etc. Parent
I'm sympathetic to those people, and yes, would be willing to pay more to help them. But my point is, if the IRS is going to make something mandatory, they are going to have to help facilitate that process.
I don't see e-filing as a big change - how do those older people file with paper? I don't think there's many 80 year-olds doing their own taxes now, are there? Parent
You can pay bills by phone, check bank and other account balances by phone, so why not file your taxes by phone? Would there be potential for fraud? Of course, but that already exists, even for e-filing. Yesterday, I read that some tax preparers changed the returns of taxpayers after those taxpayers had signed the returns, increased the refunds and pocketed the difference between what the client was expecting to get and the "new" amount. I guess we can't really trust anyone anymore.
I do agree that if the IRS wants to eliminate the paper filing of tax returns, it will have to establish a means for those without computers to do so, whether this is a phone system, or staffed computer filing centers at libraries, post offices or other government buildings.
The challenge - and it should be the IRS's challenge, not the taxpayers' - will be managing the filing of electronic returns for those who don't have computers, who live 20 miles from the nearest library, post office or government facility, and have limited means or ability to get there.
Could the IRS handle it? I would hope they would set up pilot programs to see if whatever plan they have works before making it a nationwide requirement, but I won't hold my breath! Parent
And you better bring a link if you think what the GOP is attempting is anywhere near as strict. Parent
Lots of people have friends who have ID but they don't.
"Assumes something not in evidence, your honor." Parent
Toward the end, a man in the audience asked in Spanish: "I want to help, but I don't have papers." It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help."
It was translated and Busby replied: "Everybody can help, yeah, absolutely, you can all help. You don't need papers for voting, you don't need to be a registered voter to help."
Link Parent
But if that's the best answer you can give when asked to show evidence of undocumented aliens voting in the US (after complaining about "facts not in evidence"), ...
... that says it all. Parent
nd Busby immediately explained that she misspoke when she included voting in her reply
Because Busby remembered the press was filming? Parent
No one ( especially the newspapers ) uncoverd it either.
Yet the shot for a vote at the precinct houses was available for anyone to see.
Why are you so positive that fraud is not a big issue? Are you aware of any LE initiatives to uncovered voter fraud. How about in the areas that traditionally supported fraud ( Poor urban) ? Parent
Same reason you can't provide any. Parent
Ever heard the song - Vote Early and Often for Curley.I can find the evidence easy. Any student of American Urban Politics 101 has studied the history of these corrupt machines.
Can you find evidence of the contemporary press investigating and reporting on illegal voting activities of these machines? Or the Police investigating them? Parent
But keep trying! Parent
But if you have any evidence of significant voter fraud, it would be nice to see it ... Parent
But that really wouldn't work too well for you and your ilk, would it? Because the truth is, and always has been, that Republicans and conservatives don't really want more participation, because that might mean more Democrats, and that's the group you want to keep out of the voting booth.
The zeal with which right-wing conservatives attack ineligible voters is matched only by their indifference to the actions of Bush and Cheney and their minions, Wall Street's fraud on America, the ongoing and increasing violations of our civil and constitutional rights, endless war.
I am, frankly, just sick of it. Sick of the litmus tests for patriotism, the not-so-subtle racism, the overt and ugly contempt for women (proudly on display in the Zimmerman threads, for anyone who wants to see it in action), the lack of respect for the old, the poor and the sick. It's disgusting.
But there is a silver lining: you - as an apparent representative of that mindset - reminded me why it is I became a Democrat in the first place, reminded me of the many things I find so off-putting about the GOP, made me realize that there are way too many ignorant, small-minded and petty people determined to infuse government with those character traits and the legislation to match.
So, congratulations - the right-wing stylings of you and your ilk here may be just about the best GOTV - the liberal, progressive vote - strategy ever.
Way to go! Parent
Actually I am all for the widest possible participation in democracy. Participation in democracy as opposed to just voting require that the voter fulfills at least some responsibilities required to make an informed vote.
I would never deny or allow anyone to deny a qualified citizen access to the ballot box period.
I certainly would get involved if people actually had difficulties in state ( like NH ) acquiring the proper credentials to vote. Despite all the bombast that does not appear to be an issue.
On the other hand you would not find me cruising for compliant voters who will agree to spend the time to vote in return for a pick up and a free cab ride to some other location
Its effective but improper. Parent
If people like you spent
I resent that. Is it race, sex, religion, ethnicity?
what ever it is don't group into some category and then criticize that category. You don't know me well nearly well enough! Parent
And that's three score and 14.... Parent
- confirmed by multiple independent studies.
Link.
Unless, of course, you want to make the claim that these millions of people don't have friends among the 89% who do have photo IDs. Now that would be "assuming facts not in evidence". Parent
If the contest is in doubt theirs could be the deciding ballot
This should get you started. Parent
Churches, community centers, nonprofits, etc., can help get photo IDs for people. No one needs to be driving without a valid license, and people need IDs for many transactions in this country. In my city, this has long been an issue for homeless people, who often lose their ID or get the card stolen.
If you go to this link, for example, and search by "ID," you will see that several nonprofits help homeless and poor people get IDs each week. My church has also worked on getting people IDs. Parent
I don't want my country to be that country, sorry; I don't care how "easy" it is to have photo IDs, or how helpful community groups and churches might be willing to be in getting them for those for whom it might be difficult.
And you can call me paranoid, or tell me I'm overreacting, but the extent to which our liberties have been reduced over the last decade would suggest that I'm not.
I don't understand why people don't see that that's where this is going. Parent
Of course, I realize why the Republicans are doing this, and why Democrats are responding the way they are. Parent
No one needs to be driving without a valid license, and people need IDs for many transactions in this country.
These kids will always be under the radar. My friend didn't even know where to start to help them. Parent
Now to get a new SS card for EITHER a child or adult the first thing you need is (wait for it) original documents proving US citizenship, age and identity.
I left one item out of the list for birth certificate:
. Letter from a government agency requesting a vital record
That's the only prayer they have of documenting themselves -- if they can find a way to make that happen. And hopefully the agency in question isn't the department of corrections.
It's really sad.
I'm assuming you meant vital statistics and not secretary of state. Because this the function of MD Sec of State:
The Office of the Secretary of State monitors and enforces the standards of law in a variety of areas, including charitable solicitations, notaries, condominiums, certifications and publication of State regulations. The office vigorously promotes Maryland's active role in international relations.
Anyway, someone should be able to tell you what is needed for the individual to get a birth certificate. There is a way. Parent
And I just told you
what is needed for the individual to get a birth certificate.
Also, I was just speaking with my friend and I asked him about it. There is one family of siblings that aren't even sure of their birthdays. Not one of them.
------- * Since I typed that I got curious about TN. It is the Tennessee Office of Vital Records (part of the Department of Health) that manages dup BCs. Here is their list:
*One item from the following list: 1.Current drivers license, including the issue and expiration date. 2.Current passport 3.Military I.D. card 4.Alien, temporary or permanent resident card 5.Employment authorization card 6.U.S. Certificate of Naturalization 7.Certificate of Citizenship or Citizenship I.D. card *Two items from the following list: 1.Current pay stub or W2 2.Vehicle registration with name and current address 3.Voter Registration card 4.Military Discharge (DD214) 5.Utility Bill, Bank Statement or deposit slip with name and current address 6.Health care coverage card 7.Medical record 8.Application page of an insurance policy 9.Signed Social Security Card 10.For those person who have had their I.D. stolen, a copy a police report or other official documents which support the theft.
*Two items from the following list: 1.Current pay stub or W2 2.Vehicle registration with name and current address 3.Voter Registration card 4.Military Discharge (DD214) 5.Utility Bill, Bank Statement or deposit slip with name and current address 6.Health care coverage card 7.Medical record 8.Application page of an insurance policy 9.Signed Social Security Card 10.For those person who have had their I.D. stolen, a copy a police report or other official documents which support the theft.
1.If the application is signed and notarized, no additional identification documents are required.
Most prominently, the study found that 11% of voting-age American citizens--and an even greater percentage of African American, low-income, and older citizens--do not have current and valid government-issued photo IDs. - confirmed by multiple independent studies.
The Unpersuasive Case Against Voter Identification Parent
But linking to the Heritage Foundation was good for a laugh! Parent
I don't think anyone has much of an issue with some sort of validation process to vote, the problem is the GOP always seems to find the methods that reduce their opponent turnout the most. And while anyone can sit and argue about their motives, the fact is if it favors one political party more then another, and it should be scraped. And any person who believes in democracy should not only understand that, they should fight for fairness.
But of course that isn't what any of this is about, it's about disfranchisement, and either you are playing dumb or you are dumb if you think their goals are anything nearing fairness.
Canada seems to have figured it out, regardless of how the right wants to distort it, it's fair. If only they could pretend to care about that here, we could actually implement a system in which people aren't purposely disenfranchised for political gain.
Clearly BTAL wants to use code like 'ID' to somehow make their system equal to what the right wants, when it's clear it not. You want to push the Canadian system, then start knocking down the GOP BS, and push for what Canada has. This non-sense of acting like anyone from the GOP wants anything but the 'ID' moniker from the Canadian system is so transparent in it's deception. Parent
Additionally, voters whose picture ids do not match their current residence will be impacted (students, younger, mobile workers) Additionally, it will impact absentee voting and overseas military voting.
The constitutional amendment on the MN ballot this year requiring id only says that, and does not fill out any details...(what kind of id, how can it be obtained, how much $, overseas requirements etc.) So voters are being asked to affirm legislation that has not yet been written. It's a mess and should be rejected. Parent
So voters are being asked to affirm legislation that has not yet been written. It's a mess and should be rejected.
Do you mean like...
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of controversy."
If Pelosi embarrasses you then I have hope for you. Parent
Your attempt at "false equivalency" (words of the day here, apparently) is what is embarrassing, and I'm afraid I have no hope for you...sadly. Parent
"The message is that there are no 'knowns'. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns...but there are also unknown unknowns...The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
Def Sec Donald Rumsfeld, NATO press conference, 2002
set and match! ;0) Parent
And that defines the results of Pelosi's comment. Parent
propose the showing of picture id by voters, many of whom have been on the registry for years...never had to show one before...seniors will be impacted.
What does a name being on the registry have to do with knowing that the person showing up is that person??
And the answer is? Nothing.
Will seniors be impacted?? Seniors must have the same photo ID to get a debit card, a credit card, a bank account, to cash a check, to get a library card, to check into a motel, to get on an commercial airplane flight, to rent a car, to get a driver's license, to sign up for Medicare, to sign up for Social Security... Heck, in most casinos you have to have a player's card, which takes a photo ID to get, to play the slots....
Face facts. You are talking about a very, very, very small minority that can get a photo ID with readily available help from friends, church groups, etc.
The Repubs remember Chicago in 1960 and saw that many people in FL were registered in two states in 2000... Yes, they are suspicious. Parent
Voting is a right, not a privilege. Credit cards, stays in motels are not rights. Parent
Even at the time, there was no evidence to back up such outlandish claims. A major probe by the Justice Department between 2002 and 2007 failed to prosecute a single person for going to the polls and impersonating an eligible voter, which the anti-fraud laws are supposedly designed to stop. Out of the 300 million votes cast in that period, federal prosecutors convicted only 86 people for voter fraud - and many of the cases involved immigrants and former felons who were simply unaware of their ineligibility.
86 people were convicted and their laws are going to disenfranchise how many thousand ? Talk about wasteful government spending, for what, to ensure no one does what not one person was convicted of during 5 years of republican rule ?
I wonder if Jim's hatred of manufactured controversies applies here ? It doesn't get any more manufactured than this. Parent
Win at all costs, including fictitious fraud problems to bring their brand of 'democracy', much like their 'free' markets, always swayed to favor them, but never actually fair.
Only with a republican run system would an election be determined without actually counting every legitimate vote... Parent
Situation reported by WKMG Channel 6 was that deputies went to wrong house and didn't identify selves when pounding on door to arrest an occupant they believed to be in the house. An occupant of home had his gun pointed when door was opened and he was shot dead by deputies. First version of story was that deputies did identify themselves, but that story was changed with the explanation deputies had not identified themselves to maintain the element of surprise. The Orlando Seninel account is slightly different making it a situation that most certainly should have been one coppers identified themselves. Actually, per the OS account it is a situtaion they should have just cooled their jets before knocking on the first door they thought to at 1:30am!
Then CNN cut away to their anchor and their anchor said that the Obama campaign is also claiming that Mr. Romney may have committed a felony submitting documents to the SEC.
I'm very happy with President Obama and how he is dealing with the Romney economic expertise issue. I'm happy with him as CIC. I have grown happy getting to experience some relief via ACA. I'm happy with how he is handling Mr. Bain. Romney would be so economically devastating to what remains of our economy and our broke local government structures, I can never vote for him and I must fight in every way to keep him out of office. I'm not excited by Obama's economic record, he has failed to rein in big casino, but Romney would never attempt to do it. He would probably usher in a Great Depression where we would have starving in the streets.
The two of them would probably have a high old time chortling over the use of drone technology, warrantless surveillance, the killing of American citizens with impunity, "fixing" entitlements - to name a few - so while those of us who wouldn't vote for Mitt Romney for dogcatcher can enjoy Romney's current discomfort over Bain, we don't take comfort from knowing that the Obama option isn't taking us anywhere we want to go, either.
Happy for you that ACA is helping and making a difference in your situation, but whether it's Romney or Obama, we will continue to be a country whose highly dysfunctional approach to making care accessible and affordable will be harmful to our economy, and will harm both the physical and economic health of too many of its citizens. Parent
Glenn - and Al Gore - say it better than I do:
When Al Gore delivered his major speech on the Washington Mall in 2006 denouncing the unrestrained Bush/Cheney assault on core American values, he asked: "If the president has the inherent authority to eavesdrop on American citizens without a warrant, imprison American citizens on his own declaration, kidnap and torture, then what can't he do?" That's exactly my question here for the far more extreme power claimed by Obama: if you believe the President should have the power to order people, including U.S. citizens, executed with no due process and not even any checks or transparency, what power do you believe he shouldn't have? It's impossible to see what answer someone could offer after defending this level of secret power.
Pretty serious question...I'm open to answers. Parent
The increased use of drones though, that is the small footprint plan for controlling Al Qaeda in failed states and the Af/Pak border area. What are your answers since you threw sort of a connip when Obama increased troop strength in Afghanistan, and now he is going to pull out and increase his drones?
It is his job to protect this nation and he has a duty to aid other democratic countries in that endeavor as well. That is why Afghanistan is a NATO endeavor and most troops are ISAF and will likely remain so. If so many world leaders took a look at the intel and decided they had to join this struggle, how can Obama be THAT WRONG about the dangers? Parent
"If the president has the inherent authority to eavesdrop on American citizens without a warrant, imprison American citizens on his own declaration, kidnap and torture, then what can't he do?"
Add to that, the prerogative he has claimed to order the death of anyone -- US citizen or not. Forget the whole "it's his job to protect this nation" stuff, and really think about that question.
I understand that is your nature and in the best interests of your family to want to support the CiC. I don't have that disability -- I'm a civilian. But I don't have an answer to this question. Do you? Parent
I started talking about what I read and my husband got all jumbled and weird and he demanded to know where I had got this information from. So I showed him, and then he felt I guess that he shake his head yes. But he used to do that sort of thing listening outside the country a long time ago, sitting in that little special room. And now we all have one of those close by listening to all of us. And as far as I know that has been the only serious job creation, the only thing that can get all the funds it needs. Parent
"If the president has the inherent authority to eavesdrop on American citizens without a warrant, imprison [sj: and/or execute] American citizens on his own declaration, kidnap and torture, then what can't he do?"
Did you see, that the Taliban now considers Al Qaeda the plague considering what siding with them and aiding and abetting them has cost them? That needed to happen too. Parent
There must be something wrong with me that when I read "Americans who are terrorists" and we get from there to dead with nothing in between, I start to wonder, is there any chance some non-terrorist citizen could end up on a kill list?
I mean, what are the chances? Parent
Drones are equal opportunity killers. They do not distinguish between the suspected terrorist and anyone else in the neighborhood. They kill babies and mothers and grandmothers and neighbors, anyone who is around. Parent
We have lost many many special forces troops too who in the Af/Pak areas I know for a fact went in and neutralized booby traps. The people that were in the Haqqani network that we really needed to capture or kill, they would booby trap entire blocks so that if you hit them they took 50 people out with them if they could. Our special forces soldiers spent much time, unbelievable time, dismantling booby traps, even if the target wasn't there. And sometimes they lost, and they lost their lives doing it. Parent
You, if I am reading you correctly, view drones as a way to save American military lives. And who doesn't want to save American military lives?
To me, drones are a not very well controlled, as in they cannot be clearly targeted to hit only the terrorist, mechanism that makes it all too easy for us to open up military operations anywhere it strikes our fancy.
When U.S.ground troops are involved we have to at least have a conversation about putting all those American lives in jeopardy. There is some, not enough but some, public discussion about whether or not military action will be worth the loss of American lives.
With drones there is none of that. For the most part the American people don't even know where drones are being used. And with no American soldiers coming home in body bags the "war" virtually ceases to exist.
And that, IMO, is a very bad place for us to be as a nation. Parent
Love to read your take on it. Parent
He said that Detroit should have been allowed to fail, so if he had been President that is what he would have allowed to happen. If that had happened we would be in even deeper and darker trouble, particularly with our already gutted export and industrial base. Parent
Money matters more than humans. People you can lay off, cut their benefits, profit from. Money just sits there without people to use. Oh, that's right, because it's an inanimate object of human creation and over which humans have COMPLETE control. To be fair, however, neither party will tell you that. The casino paradigm that is killing us doesn't look to be going anywhere. Parent
Would you put it at risk in today's environment when no one knows what the government regulations will be next week much less next year??
I don't think you would unless the rate of return was very high.
You play poker. You understand you don't take 5 to 1 odds unless the pot is very large.
Companies and corporations are no different except they have money from their investors. And they are obligated to not take silly risk and try to get a profit for the investors. Parent
Civil society and rule of law costs, people like you act like the world is a uniform stable safe place. IT IS NOT! Parent
If the company you work for runs into trouble then you are in trouble.
Groups like Bain buy the company and infuse cash, change the management, change the business plan and try to make the company successful. In almost all cases some people lose their jobs but others do not.
Would you prefer that the company closes down and everyone lose their job?
It is a risky situation and to persuade investors to put their money at high risk you have to offer a high rate of return to compensate for the times the attempt fails and the investors lose all of their money.
Romney was right about Detroit. First of all, Ford survived and has done well without my tax dollars. And before you tell me all the money has been paid back:
Our tally of ProPublica's work on General Motors, GMAC, Chrysler and Chrysler Financial Services shows that of $80 billion spent by taxpayers on the entire bailout, we're still waiting on nearly $40 billion, a number confirmed by the Treasury Department. snip So, new Chrysler has "repaid its loans," as has Chrysler Financial Services. But old Chrysler was lent $1.3 billion that won't be repaid. snip As with Chrysler, new GM has repaid its "loans," while old GM may fail to repay $850 million. Unlike Chrysler, the government still owns a third of GM and more than 70 percent of the former GMAC -- stock that taxpayers can hope will one day earn enough to make them whole.
snip
So, new Chrysler has "repaid its loans," as has Chrysler Financial Services. But old Chrysler was lent $1.3 billion that won't be repaid.
As with Chrysler, new GM has repaid its "loans," while old GM may fail to repay $850 million. Unlike Chrysler, the government still owns a third of GM and more than 70 percent of the former GMAC -- stock that taxpayers can hope will one day earn enough to make them whole.
Politifact link
Both GM and Chrysler are apparently doing well. They could have done so without a bail out. Said bail out was more about union votes that saving non-union jobs. Parent
It seems to me that you are making my point.
And yes, the prevention of the company closing has prevented people from losing their jobs so jobs have been created. Plus the survival means that additional jobs will be created.
And there is no arguing that if Bain had not rescued the company things would have been better.
Unless, of course, you want to claim that some mythical company with a board of directors consisting of Unicorns and Tooth Fairies would have swooped in an poured gold dust into the coffers. Parent
So you now agree with Obama that he "saved" jobs with what he did?
Bain also closed down companies. So you cannot say that Bain coming in was always a good thing. Many companies were broken into pieces and sold off because it was more profitable to do it that way. In those cases EVERYBODY lost their job. So if you add it all together the breaking up of the company and the "saving" of the company Bain's record has been not one of job creation but job loss. Parent
I'm sick to death of people who thrive on ignorance and stupidity, and then when everything they argue for blows up want to change the subject or don't show up here to comment for a few months. Parent