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Monday Morning Open Thread

I'm doing Daily Kos Radio with Jesse LaGreca at 11. You can listen here.

No Zimmerman please. I'll post separate Open Thread for that.

Open Thread.

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  • Bill Kristol: 'Release Tax Returns Tomorrow' (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:31:11 PM EST
    Gee Bill, ya think there might be a reason Mitt doesn't want to....

    I find this so GD funny I can hardly stop laughing.

    It sure is funny sh*t... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:41:08 PM EST
    watching Mitt squirm...it seems like just last month his business career and ability to make obscene amounts of money out of obscene amounts of money where the reasons he said he'd make a great president...now he can't run away from his business career and personal wealth fast enough.

    You may make one helluva trust fund baby Mitt, but you really suck at this politics thing.

    Parent

    Mr. Romney is on his second vacation (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:14:15 PM EST
    of this month, to spend time w/his family.  What next?

    Parent
    Well, it's a big family, oculus... (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:20:38 PM EST
    and there's still a half a month left; might not be the last vacation with the family...

    Parent
    Mitt doesn't have a trust fund (none / 0) (#64)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:19:39 PM EST
    his children do.

    He made his own money, lots of it.

    Parent

    I don't know about trust fund (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:29:42 PM EST
    But he had an inheritance although he says he donated it.  But one doesn't start a company with a zero bank balance.

    Parent
    Mitt Romney was ... (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:12:59 PM EST
    ... born on third base, and has been claiming he hit a triple ever since.

    Parent
    I didn't know Mormons practiced (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:15:54 PM EST
    third base...uck, nevermind...just the idea of "Mitt" and "third base" in the same sentence is more than I can stand right now.

    Parent
    My metaphor had to do with ... (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:46:45 PM EST
    ... real baseball. I wasn't paraphrasing Meat Loaf's "Paradise by the Dashboard Light."

    ;-D

    Parent

    And that Demo of note (2.00 / 1) (#97)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:30:01 PM EST
    Ted Turner did the same.

    It's what you do with Daddy's money that counts.

    Parent

    I didn't realize (5.00 / 7) (#107)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:48:19 PM EST
    that Ted Turner was running for President.  

    Parent
    Sigh..... (2.00 / 1) (#210)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:31:20 PM EST
    Are you running out of snark??

    The point is plain and simple. It was what you do with the resources left you that counts. The world is full of people who's daddy made and they blew it.

    Turner was left a billboard business and about a million bucks and he pioneered news channel TV and made billions....

    Bill Gates came from a very upper middle class family and used money from the family to start Microsoft...

    So tell me, what's your problem? Or is that you can't resist stalking??

    Parent

    He made lots of it allright... (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:35:05 PM EST
    in ways he's not proud of, at least anymore;)

    But it all started with his daddy's money and connections.  Which is fine, more power to the birth lottery winner (as long as he ain't running for president), but lets not pretend the dude wasn't born on third base.  

    Parent

    Well, it worked for Romney (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by KeysDan on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:14:25 PM EST
    so he has kindly offered free advice -stuff to others: for students at Otterbein University, Westerville, Ohio (April 23, 2012). " Take a shot, go for it, take a risk, get education, borrow money if you have to from your parents, start a business."     But, a few questions do arise including how many parents of college students can cough up with the money, and did Mittens borrow the money from his parents to start his business, and who is more out-of-touch as a candidate, Mittens with this one, or Daddy Bush, with his amazement at grocery store check-out bar codes?

    Parent
    And Therein Lies the Problem... (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:00:11 PM EST
    ...with all of it, how was that money made; strong leadership and a keen business sense or slicing and dicing others hard earned futures ?

    This bob-and-weave is making it clear there's plenty to hide.  This is Mitt's put-up or shut-up moment IMO.  He keeps telling the world what a great business man he is, but flinches every time someone wants more than his word for it.

    I think the real problem is the tax avoidance issue, his returns might put a damper on his income questions but these tax shelters are going to raise so many more issues.  Even the republicans aren't going to be down with a kazillionaire skirting US tax law IMO.  And while perfectly legal, it's not a trait many want in their President.

    And that is why I think Kristol's quote is so GD hilarious, the very thing he thinks Romney should do is probably the one thing that can really sink him.

    Parent

    Ah (2.00 / 1) (#86)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:05:27 PM EST
    the Obama team doesn't want to go down the "tax avoidance issue" - not with people like Geithner and their other nominees who couldn't be bothered to fill out tax forms.

    Of course, if Romney DID avoid paying taxes, then he would certainly be qualified to be Secretary of the Treasury!

    Parent

    You Looking for a Friend.... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:30:43 PM EST
    ...of Geithner here ?  I think he one of the very few people in which we all have the same low opinion.  Can't think of one soul who's defended him.

    But that is way off topic, plus of course, he's not actually running.  But, I would absolutely love to get some bright lights shinned in Timmy's direction.

    If the choice is Romney and Geithner on the hot seat, or nothing, pretty sure Obama will chose the former.  But it's not...  it's Romney in the hot seat or the economy.

    Parent

    He sure is running (none / 0) (#101)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:40:02 PM EST
    Since his boss is, and his boss said this while discussing Romney and Bain within the last day or two:

    Well, here's what I know, we were just talking about responsibility and as president of the United States, it's pretty clear to me that I'm responsible for folks who are working in the federal government and you know, Harry Truman said the buck stops with you.

    You know - goose, gander.

    Parent

    Mitt's buck apparently ... (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:10:47 PM EST
    ... stopped and parked in Bermuda and the Cayman Islands.

    Parent
    Funny (none / 0) (#103)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:42:14 PM EST
    Keep on trucking with that theory.  The buck ain't stopped since HT, but many like to think it does.

    Parent
    Of course it doesn't (none / 0) (#105)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:43:37 PM EST
    Politicians never take responsibility.  That's why everyone hates them. And no amount of hope and change makes that better.

    Parent
    The Only Change I Want... (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:00:01 PM EST
    ...from Obama is my money back from 2008.

    Parent
    Can't help you there (none / 0) (#111)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:08:49 PM EST
    Caveat Emptor, and all that.

    Parent
    Defense of Geithner, coming up. (none / 0) (#145)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:23:27 PM EST

    he wears nice shoes, and they look well-maintained.

    his economic policies suffer from bizarro-world bookkeeping and the same kind of shrinkage George Costanza mentions.

    Chicago School... still teaching the Laffer curve theory, long after empirical data have debunked it. Between Mises and Friedman, et al, The dismal science again demonstrates the logic of dismissing much of the field as laudanum-induced dreams.

    Xanadu maybe should be considered a basic read in Econ programs.

    Parent

    Funny window decal: (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:33:28 PM EST
    "Nobody Cares About Your Stick Family".


    It gets better around here (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:24:06 PM EST
    There is a soldier decal now, so that you can give your stick family soldier a helmet and a stick M-16.  I was behind one last week, soldier parent with gun....everyone smiling, I wonder what happens to old dogs that family.  That dog won't be smiling forever.  And my husband says, "Hey, look, he's shooting himself in the foot.  I'll bet when he got married and made all those mouths to feed that was when he realized he might as well shoot himself in the foot."  I said that the whole deal was in very poor taste IMO.

    The very next day an SUV passes us, and they have a big SNIPER decal on their family wagon and they have stick family too and their soldier has a gun but it's pointed the other way so he isn't shooting himself. I look at my husband and say, "That's it! The military is morally broken and out of their minds!"  My husband says though that at least special forces knows not to shoot themselves.

    Parent

    Let's have a prize for the Zorba (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:29:42 PM EST
    family stick figure decal:  Peach trees, deer, etc.  

    Parent
    And poodles (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:31:49 PM EST
    I'm always amazed (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:46:46 PM EST
    When I see those stickers.  The same people who will scream about privacy and the government snooping on you, will loudly advertise that they have 3 children (one boy, two girls), a dog, and a cat.  All anyone with ill will towards you would have to do is just follow you home and wait.

    Parent
    And they put "Kristen" above the (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Angel on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:48:23 PM EST
    soccer ball decal and the name of the school she attends.  Stoopid.

    Parent
    It's like saying (none / 0) (#55)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:49:09 PM EST
    "Please kidnap and harm my child".

    Parent
    Exactly. (none / 0) (#56)
    by Angel on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:49:53 PM EST
    Not in Texas... (none / 0) (#63)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:17:28 PM EST
    ...the papa stick usually has some sort of gun.

    I always find that so disturbing, here is my lovely family holding hands looking like we are just walking in the park... but dad needs to have a gun to make it complete.

    Parent

    I've seen the ones (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:21:36 PM EST
    Where the family is wearing mouse ears.

    Do we all NEED to know that they went to Disney World?

    Parent

    I can't believe the military has evolved (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:46:33 PM EST
    into stick figure daddy smiling with gun.  In 2002 Josh was being invited to several toddler b-day parties, and military families being forever trendy were putting on the invitations no gun toys please.  The "don't teach children to covet guns" movement had hit us hard.  And I was good with it, that's not a bad thing.  I grew up around hunting guns though and it never made me want one, in fact it sort of made me not want one.  I saw what they did and knew what they were for.  But we went to the bday parties and brought no gun toy as requested.

    Then the soldiers are loading up going to Iraq and I had to go to another bday party and once again no gun toy.  When we got there and all the kids were playing all the moms had gathered to discuss how ever cool they were not raising boys to shoot.  I thought it was dumb beyond dumb because their fathers were going to be carrying an M-16 24/7 and there would be all these photographs.  So I asked them all what do you tell your kids when daddy has a gun after you have demonized guns?  Once again, I'm fine with demonizing guns...but I need some credibility with my children so maybe it isn't as simple as that.  None of these people had thought about this though.  It was like I pooped in the middle of the room or something.  I went home very frustrated.  Where did they think the soldiers were going in 2 weeks and what did they think they were going to be doing?

    Ten years later, the whole family smiles while daddy shoots the gun is emblazoned on the back of a car.  Sometimes I think at least half of us is phucking crazy and I can't help them.

    Parent

    Oh, BTD - thank you for the (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:51:44 PM EST
    "no Zimmerman" thing; and if you're the one who deleted all the comments about it, thanks for that, too.

    [I just came from a look at the forum thread on the latest news and feel like throwing up.]

    I don't know if I can venture over there or not if (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Angel on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:53:27 PM EST
    it's as bad as you say.  I'm appalled at some of the comments on the general threads.  

    Parent
    That was brave of you... (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:09:42 PM EST
    No, it was stupid. (none / 0) (#61)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:16:23 PM EST
    Really, really stupid.

    Parent
    LOL! (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:17:13 PM EST
    Speaking for myself, I've ... (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    ... long since burned out on the subject, and I believe that I've already said all that I really care to say about it.

    Parent
    If Mitt Romney left on Feb. 11, 1999, as ... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:44:08 PM EST
    Slado (at 11:01:15 AM EST): "Romney left Bain in 1999, according to CNN."

    ... he presently claims, then please explain this paragraph from Bain Capital's July 19, 1999 press release, congratulating two former associates who were starting their own private equity firm (NOTE: The text is from a Nexus search, and no direct link is available):

    "Bain Capital CEO W. Mitt Romney, currently on a part-time leave of absence to head the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee for the 2002 Games said, 'Geoff and Marc have each made very significant contributions to the growth of our business, and have played important roles in furthering its success. In particular, Geoff, who helped us to start Bain Capital played a key role in building our franchise and led several of our highly successful transactions. Marc brought extensive capital markets expertise to the firm, where he co-headed our mezzanine efforts and played a critical role in conceiving and helping to start Sankaty Advisors, our high yield asset business, which now has over $ 2 billion under management. While we will miss them, we wish them well and look forward to working with them as they build their firm.'"

    Please take note that the date of this release is a full five months after the date Romney now claims to be be the effective date of his "retirement" from Bain Capital. Yet in said press release, Romney is still identied as "Bain Capital CEO," and is further described as being "on a part-time leave of absence to head the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee for the 2002 Games[.]"

    And still further, the "Marc" in this press release refers to former Bain Associate Marc B. Walprow, who later affirmed to the Boston Globe back in 2002 the still-present contention that Romney remained active in the affairs of Bain Capital, even as he was assuming command of operations for the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee:

    "I reported directly to Mitt Romney ... You can't be CEO of Bain Capital and say, `I really don't know what my guys were doing." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Finally, it should be noted that Romney is now staking his claim regarding his date of departure from Bain Capital on a severance package that was negotiated and finalized in 2002, in which that date of departure was made retroactive to February 11, 1999.

    But for all intents, that was strictly for the purposes of the severance package. The bald fact of the matter is that Romney received $100,000 in direct salary compensation in 1999, 2000, and 2001 for his part-time capacity as Bain Capital CEO. He acted in that capacity every time signed documents filed with the Securities & Exchange Commission (SEC) between 1999 and 2002 as the CEO of Bain Capital.

    So, either Mitt Romney was CEO of Bain Capital between February 1999 and late 2002, or he wasn't. And if he wasn't, then he and Bain Capital clearly and intentionally misled the SEC during that same period, when they stated in their filings that he was.

    Aloha.

    And yet (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:03:42 PM EST
    after receiving a motion by the state Democratic Party to try and get Romney off the gubernatorial ballot in 2002 (because, they argued, he cut off his ties to Massachusetts, and therefore was not eligible to be governor), The Massachusetts State Ballot Commission, a bi-partisan commission, determined that:

    "The Respondent [Romney] remained actively employed at Bain Capital until January 1, 1999, at which time he left to take the position of President and Chief Executive Officer of the Salt Lake Organizing Committee for the 2002 Winter Olympic Games."

    So was Massachussetts wrong then?  Possibly.

    Parent

    And why did they rule that way? (none / 0) (#124)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:25:24 PM EST
    Because Mitt Romney claimed in his testimony before that commission that he still had business ties -- and those ties were with Bain Capital and its subsidiaries. In fact, records show that Mitt Romney was named as a board member or director of six entities that were formed by Bain Capital in 2002 alone.

    And further, the commissioners were deliberating solely about Romney's residency in the commonwealth for electoral purposes, not about his status as CEO at Bain.

    Finally, the severance package negotiated by Romney in 2002, after he was elected governor of Massachusetts, denotes February 11, 1999 as his retroactive retirement day. He was allowed to retire retroactively. But prior to that, he was still Bain Capital CEO.

    Parent

    So? (none / 0) (#131)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:59:11 PM EST
    A duly sworn state commission found, after looking at, you know, evidence, that among other things, he was not running Bain after 1999.

    YMMV.

    Parent

    Are you just ... (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:38:18 PM EST
    ... going to continue covering your ears and saying "La-la-la, I can't hear you," and refuse to acknowledge the rapidly amounting evidence that says he was still Bain Capital's CEO?

    As I said above, the Ballot Law Commission was looking into whether or not his claim to Massachusetts residency was legal for purposes of running for elective office. They were not auditing his business history.

    The central issue is not whether Romney was running Bain Capital full-time after January 1999. It's quite obvious that he was not, given his duties in Salt Lake City. Rather, it's whether Romney continued to function in his capacity as Bain Capital's chief executive officer, which according to the firm's SEC filings that Romney himself signed, he did.

    And again, Romney himself testified to the Ballot Law Commission on June 18, 2002 that he maintained business ties with Bain, as proof that he was still a resident of the comonwealth. As part of that proof, he offered into evidence documents showing that he served on the board of two Bain-controlled companies, Staples Corp. and LifeLike (a doll manufacturing company).

    Further, according to his testimony, Romney noted that he had every intention of returning to Bain Capital in the winter of 1999 when he left to take over the Olympics, and that it was only in 2002 -- as the Salt Lake City Olympics were concluding -- when he decided that he wanted to formally resign his position with the company:

    "When I left my employer in Massachusetts in February of 1999 to accept the Olympic assignment, I left on the basis of a leave of absence, indicating that I, by virtue of that title, would return at the end of the Olympics to my employment at Bain Capital, but subsequently decided not to do so and entered into a departure agreement with my former partners -- I use that in the colloquial sense, not legal sense, but my former partners  (sic). Upon completion of that agreement and that understanding with them, it was at approximately at that time that Ann and I decided that we would devote the time that I would spend in my career going forward to public service of one kind or another." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Finally, Romney stated to the Ballot Law Commission that he returned to Massachusetts to attend board meetings, a statement which he initially contradicted earlier last week by claiming to not recall having attended any board meetings whatsoever. But by Thursday, the Romney campaign began declining to state whether Mr. Romney had personally attended any meetings, or had any contact with Bain Capital during the time he ran the Olympic Games.

    Case closed. Aloha.

    Parent

    You know a lot of CEO's (none / 0) (#214)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 02:34:54 PM EST
    Rather, it's whether Romney continued to function in his capacity as Bain Capital's chief executive officer

    That are active in the day-to-day operations of a company, but are on leave and not actually there?

    Wow - they must be superhuman, especially if they have another more than full-time job across the country.

    Parent

    Shades of John Edwards' (2.00 / 1) (#184)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:43:58 AM EST
    "exoneration" by an admin. look-see.  

    Parent
    They weren't "deliberating" (none / 0) (#183)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:40:42 AM EST
    their "ruling" was preordained, as above.  Their "ruling" means absolutely nothing except that they were appointed by a governor of the same party as Romney.  I don't even know why the Dems. bothered, except maybe to keep the issue in the public eye for a while.  The end result was, as I say, entirely preordained.

    Parent
    Oh, pulleeeze! (none / 0) (#182)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:38:35 AM EST
    "Bipartisan ballot law commission" my ass.  At the time of Romney's issue, two GOPers and one nominal Dem. all three appointed by the GOP governor.

    The BLC in Mass. is a complete and utter joke, entirely and relentlessly partisan in its decisions.  (ask me how I know-- I've had direct experience with this joke of commission)

    Parent

    Wait! (none / 0) (#188)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 06:32:19 AM EST
    I thought we didn't care about what people said, but by the statements themselves.  If so, how come three of the four Bain executives who are active Democratic supporters (HUGE supporters and fundraisers for Obama) said he wasn't there?

    Either you believe what people who work there say (and numerous news outlets) or you believe what an ad campaign says.

    And if Obama is going to use words like "felon" with regards to an opponent and accuse him of committing a federal crime, then he d@mn well should not use it in an ad, but instead he should follow his oath and immediately direct the Justice Department to investigate and bring charges. Romney broke the law? Prove it.  If not, then he and his minions should just STFU.

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#216)
    by jbindc on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 03:07:20 PM EST
    And still further, the "Marc" in this press release refers to former Bain Associate Marc B. Walprow, who later affirmed to the Boston Globe back in 2002 the still-present contention that Romney remained active in the affairs of Bain Capital, even as he was assuming command of operations for the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee:

    "I reported directly to Mitt Romney ... You can't be CEO of Bain Capital and say, `I really don't know what my guys were doing." (Emphasis is mine.)

    If you had done your research, you would realize that this quote does not refer to when Romney left for Utah to run the Olympics during the debated time period, but rather when Romney took an earlier leave to run for Senate.  How do I know this?  Because Wolpow also left Bain in 1999, so there's no way he "reported directly to Mitt Romney."

    Facts are stubborn things.

    Parent

    James Carville (5.00 / 6) (#108)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:48:29 PM EST
    can be grating, but this is damn funny:

    "The only person who has seen Romney's taxes is John McCain and he took one look and picked Sarah Palin."

    That is funny. (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Angel on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:49:41 PM EST
    One last travel note (5.00 / 7) (#113)
    by CST on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:46:39 PM EST
    that I thought TL might appreciate.  I'm finally back in Boston, but not before a grand total of:

    8 planes, 1 full body scan, 9 metal detectors, 11 bag screenings, 5 pat downs (note to female travelers - sports bra and sweat pants is the way to go), 1 small purple teddy bear subject to additional (drug/explosive?) screening, 2 bottles of wine and 2 bottles of olive oil purchased at duty free confiscated at a connecting flight due to inadequate sealing of the bag when I bought it, 1 bumped flight, 1 visa, and 8 passport stamps.

    International travel is not for the shy or impatient.  I'm glad I got home safe and sound, but I kind of feel like going through that level of security every time you get on a plane or switch gates - even if it's right after you got off a plane - is a bit excessive.  Mind you, other than the teddy bear check, I was never "flagged" as suspicious or questioned, I can only imagine what it must be like for the people who are.  I managed to be relatively cheerful through most of it, but I admit that I did lose my smile when they took my purchased items.  

    I did not yell at anyone though like another bratty American traveler we saw who lost her luggage tag and couldn't track her luggage (they didn't lose the luggage they just couldn't tell her where it was at the connecting flight without the tag).  If you travel abroad, please try to be friendly - you are representing your country - don't give the rest of us a bad name.

    Welcome home, CST. (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:08:01 PM EST
    Glad you made it back with what is now thought to be a minimum of fuss and bother. Good on you for being a polite, even though troubled by the loss of wine and olive oil, traveler who did nothing to reinforce any lingering "ugly American" sentiment in the world.

    I've made note of your tip re: female travelers and security check friendly clothing. Thanks.

    So, have you already quit your job? And, if so, does this mean you have the rest of the summer free?

    Parent

    Yes, welcome home. (none / 0) (#149)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:50:53 PM EST
    We leave San Francisco tonight to return to Honolulu. Fortunately, no customs officials will be involved. I'll be home by midnight, HST.

    Parent
    hmmm. (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:00:12 PM EST
    PRescriptions are making my posts land just about anywhere tonight. Might be time to watch a few episondes of Firely and fall asleep!

    Networking time... (5.00 / 3) (#151)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:07:02 PM EST
    Anyone need a statistician? Especially one who can explain what the numbers mean, the powers or the techniques and the limitations, as well?

    I can work from home, too! No need for a corner office when I can pet my furry friends and listen to them snore right here.

    Just sayin,' I feel a lot better, and rusty brain functions have been squirted with Liquid Wrench and Tung oil.

    My rusty brain functions are ... (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:19:46 PM EST
    ... actually much better when lubricated with margaritas.

    Parent
    Not really... (none / 0) (#174)
    by unitron on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:59:41 PM EST
    ...it's just all that lubrication making you think so.

    : - )

    Parent

    Family story I just heard on my vacation (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:04:47 PM EST
    When I was in clollege my mom and little brother were in the car coming to visit me, and my mom mentioned I was having trouble with statistics. My brother replied 'Maybe she needs my almanac'. I guess he thought I was trying to memorize batting averages or GDPs!

    Parent
    My niece. She is writing (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:20:00 PM EST
    herwriting her Ph.D. dissertation and lamenting tithe statistics aspects.

    Parent
    Get her in touch with me, (none / 0) (#164)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:30:49 PM EST
    Oculus...

    Parent
    She passed stats. exams. (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:34:33 PM EST
    Did I mention she is 6 ft. and a beautiful mid thirtiesand runs
    marathons?

    Parent
    I'm available (none / 0) (#166)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:43:15 PM EST
    not for the statistics part but for the running part.

    Parent
    and setting up the methodology... almost doesn't matter which discipline. If she's looking for outside help, that is...

    Parent
    I will suggest this. (none / 0) (#170)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:51:18 PM EST
    From our "You Say 'Toe-MAY-toe'" file: (5.00 / 5) (#152)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:18:23 PM EST
    Behold, yet another in a series of great moments in Mitt Romney's business history:

    "The torch relay clothes were NOT made in Burma. They were manufactured in Myanmar. In fact they were made in the exact same factory that produces clothes for GAP, North Face and other major clothing labels."
    -- Statement from the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic Committee, attempting to respond to protests over the the news that the manufacture of the 2002 Olympic team's uniforms had been outsourced to Burma


    And this (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:30:16 PM EST
    is why Mitt wants nothing to do with the discussion of who manufactures Olympians clothing. They caught it from Gap, from North Face, and everyone with a small understanding of Burma/Myanmar. A true oops moment.

    Parent
    Perhaps he should send Ms. Palin (none / 0) (#156)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 08:23:11 PM EST
    an invite to Tampa.

    Parent
    Glad to be back home at TL (5.00 / 4) (#161)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:08:19 PM EST
    I had some political discussions with friends over my vacation, and am afraid I forgot to mention some salient points, but overall my TL gained knowledge was shared all along the west coast. OK, mostly the OC friends needed it!

    Catching up on all things Bain and Zimmerman.....holy cow.

    My one cultural outing on vacation (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:12:44 PM EST
    The Getty Museum in LA. So glad I got to see it. Such a beautiful setting and collection. I need to go back - one afternoon was not nearly enough.

    Also rode a bike and canoed in central Oregon, went to Voodoo Donuts in Portland,  and yakked my face off with family and friends in California.

    Glad to be home with the doggies, though I much preferred those cool western nights!

    Did you notice the limestone used? (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by DFLer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:32:42 PM EST
    My cousins tell me it's from the Stone City, Iowa, quarry.

    I want to go there, and feel the stone, and say....hmmmm..is this Iowa limestone? It sure feels and looks like it. How beautiful!

    Go ahead Ruff...try it! Impress the docents all to hell.

    Parent

    According to the video at the Getty, (none / 0) (#171)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:52:34 PM EST
    the stone was mined in Italy  You can see it all on video!

    Parent
    Per Getty website: (none / 0) (#185)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:53:12 AM EST
    Travertine
    The stone--1.2 million square feet of it--is one of the most remarkable elements of the complex. This beige-colored, cleft-cut, textured, fossilized travertine catches the bright Southern California light, reflecting sharply during morning hours, and emitting a honeyed warmth in the afternoon.

    Meier chose stone for this project because it is often associated with public architecture and expresses qualities the Getty Center celebrates: permanence, solidity, simplicity, warmth, and craftsmanship.

    The 16,000 tons of travertine are from Bagni di Tivoli, Italy, 15 miles east of Rome. Many of the stones revealed fossilized leaves, feathers, and branches when they were split along their natural grain. Meier and his staff worked for a year with the quarries to invent a process using a guillotine to produce the unique finish.



    Parent
    Outsourcers! (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:16:16 AM EST
    MileHi (none / 0) (#200)
    by DFLer on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 09:36:20 AM EST
    I have it on thehighest authority (okay-just my cousin) that they used Stone City limestone AS WELL as Italian (marble?- aka travatine?)

    Oc...please see if you can confirm this.

    Parent

    Everyone knows... (none / 0) (#201)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 09:53:10 AM EST
    the best marble in the World comes from Yule quarry in Marble, CO.

    The marble of the quarry is considered to be of exceptional quality and has been used for the Tomb of the Unknowns, as well as for parts of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington, D.C., and civic buildings in San Francisco. It was also used for the construction of the Equitable Building, a historically important early skyscraper in New York City.

    No need to import it from Italy!


    Parent

    It was all just beautiful (none / 0) (#206)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 10:16:30 AM EST
    wherever it was from! I did read about the travertine from Italy, but I will consult the book I bought for info about Iowa stone!

    Parent
    I just finished reading Euripides (none / 0) (#172)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:55:04 PM EST
    "Helen," including both introductions and all the notes, in preparation for the performance in Sept. @ Getty Villa amphitheater.  Turns out the "real" Helen was in Egypt all along.  Who knew.  

    Parent
    The Getty is a lovely place (none / 0) (#186)
    by nycstray on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 01:10:12 AM EST
    recently found pics at mom's of one of my B-day's spent there with a friend. Need to get back there.

    Glad you had a good vacation!

    Parent

    Yakked as in... (none / 0) (#190)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:08:38 AM EST
    conversation, or as in alcohol induced vomiting?  

    Either way, sounds like a blast, welcome back ruff!  

    Parent

    Lol- talking! Though I admit to (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by ruffian on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 10:13:35 AM EST
    a close call one night with tequila shots!

    Parent
    RIP (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by desertswine on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:59:01 PM EST
    Jon Lord, and thanks.

    More stuff I've learned this summer (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by brodie on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:07:08 PM EST
    1.  Mermaids might be real, though scientists prefer the term "aquatic apes."  This according to a bizarre two hour doc on Discovery last night.  I haven't seen on-camera scientists so polished and almost theatrically dramatic as they seemed stunned to be discussing data suggestive of some unknown intelligent, language speaking life form in the oceans, which our military seems to want hushed up.

    2.  In 1988 for the 25th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination, Walter Cronkite, increasingly skeptical of the official story, wanted CBS to undertake a major prime time special re-evaluating the case. But it was nixed. Walter blamed Dan Rather, but top execs were probably responsible.  From Doug Brinkley's new bio of WC.

    3.  There is new hope for another Obama term so long as Romney continues the Bain/tax return stonewall and provided the Obama team remains aggressive in pressing the attack.  A couple more weeks like the past week and I might have to re-think my previous early prediction


    Dan Rather against it? (none / 0) (#177)
    by unitron on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:16:31 PM EST
    Rather would have gotten all kinds of air time out of a special like that, he was there that day.

    Parent
    This was consultant Cronkite's (none / 0) (#178)
    by brodie on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:30:47 PM EST
    idea and he intended to host that special, not Dan the Evening News anchor.  Walter thought it was nixed b/c of an oversensitive Rather protecting his turf, but Rather and the biographer think it had more to do with the cold bottom line cost cutting concerns of new CBS owner Larry Tisch.

    Btw, Rather was there that day but over the years he apparently embellished how close he was to Dealey Plaza. He was probably in the newsroom of the local CBS station monitoring news of JFK's visit, but by the 1980s he had placed himself in public recountings as a lowly film courier stationed just past the triple underpass, just past the grassy knoll as the presidential limo sped by with something obviously not right.

    Parent

    Mermaids?!! What??? (none / 0) (#187)
    by lilburro on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 01:54:12 AM EST
    Off to Google I go...

    Parent
    "Aquatic apes", please! (none / 0) (#189)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 07:17:10 AM EST
    And a few key words to re-emphasize in my initial post above are "polished" and "theatrically dramatic.". There was definitely an air of unreality as this supposed "documentary" unfolded and the evidence offered seemed dicey at best, in contrast to the alleged on-camera "scientists" who at times looked barely able to control their emotions as they confidently reached spectacular conclusions based on dubious or slender evidence.

    Iow this one was a clever blend of fantasy, speculation and fact done in such a slick way as to blur the distinctions between fact and fiction, as with biographical novels or alternative history scenarios.

    Parent

    I've heard about this program (none / 0) (#199)
    by sj on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 09:19:44 AM EST
    But haven't watched it.  Was it as well done as Spinal Tap?

    Parent
    Not as obviously funny (none / 0) (#207)
    by brodie on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 10:32:46 AM EST
    or as obviously a send up faux doc. Sort of a cross between your standard cable tv docs that use talking head experts plus re-enactments by actors and that theatrical movie faux doc from a few years ago that made a big splash re teens camping in the woods using night vision cameras to supposedly document their frightening encounters with monsters or aliens. Forget the title. Big box office.

    This one was slickly produced and almost seamlessly presented as fact if you weren't paying close attention.

    Parent

    Lol. Trump saying Romney should not.... (3.67 / 3) (#112)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:12:09 PM EST
    release his tax returns unless Obama releases his college transcripts.

    Oh, good...it just wouldn't be a (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:11:02 PM EST
    credible discussion without The Donald chiming in with his please-pay-attention-to-MEEEEE! comments, now, would it?

    Do you know if there has been an official determination that this whole thing is an honest-to-God Sh!t Show, or is it still in Goat Rodeo status?

    Parent

    If I didn't know better... (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:16:38 PM EST
    ...I'd say you were a teensy bit annoyed   :)

    Parent
    samsguy? agreeing with Trump? (none / 0) (#114)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:49:14 PM EST
    Please explain.

    Parent
    Magister it's not personal (none / 0) (#127)
    by samsguy18 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:42:43 PM EST
    I am of the mind  the candidates should be transparent ...every day I see  ever increasing numbers of hard working sick people who desperately need help....it makes me angry the games politicians play  trying to see what sticks ...the truth doesn't matter....

    Parent
    Alright... (5.00 / 3) (#130)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:56:21 PM EST
    I just think that Trump has proven himself to be so insane in the face of the releases from the state of Hawaii, that I think he's lost all credibility to demand anything from anyone.

    Parent
    Yes, it is true, (5.00 / 5) (#135)
    by Zorba on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:25:30 PM EST
    samsguy, that candidates should be transparent.  But in no way do I equate their college transcripts with their tax returns.  I would have loved to have seen, not just G. W. Bush's college transcripts, but the full record of his service in the National Guard.  In whichever state he had served in.  I don't recall seeing either in 2000, however.  

    Parent
    As long as we're all about being transparent... (5.00 / 5) (#140)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:55:38 PM EST
    Break a leg, BTD (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:03:27 AM EST
    I'll be playing in a poker tournament, won't be able to listen live. I was bubble boy last tourney, didn't particularly care for it.  Due for a cash this time. Peace.

    "Don't tell me this town (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:42:44 AM EST
    ain't got no heart...You just gotta poke around"

    Jesus Mary Joseph and the Sheep, what a weekend. What...a...weekend.  "Feelin' Allright" with Dave Mason, "One More Saturday Night" with Furthur, "Wild in the Streets" with Garland Jeffreys, the Appalachian stylings of Ollabelle, and many many more.

    An abundance of musical, and pharmacopeial, blessings.  Shakedown Street was flush, lemme tell ta...more balloons than the Macys parade, more Molly than Ringwald, more Bud than Harrelson.  All served with a smile;)

    I hope to recover in time for the Malone Bros. Concert Cruise Thursday night...cuz right now I'm f*ckin' shot.  

    Hope y'all had but a fraction of the fun and adventure!

    Parent

    80+ year old woman knocked me out (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:53:05 PM EST
    Played with her before, she's a riot. Can't look at her cards without showing the world, but she limps in late, I push with a short stack.  I have 99, and what did she limp with? QQ.  Can you say, have a nice day Dadler?

    Parent
    Not much ya can do there... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:59:09 PM EST
    if you're dumping 9's short-stacked to a limper, poker ain't your game.

    Next time spike a 9!

    Parent

    Uh dude (none / 0) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:17:51 PM EST
    She may limp but QQ aint a limper unless she barely had you covered.

    Any, that's a S happens deal. You'll get'em next time!

    BTW - Where was the tournament??

    Parent

    Lucky Chances in Colma (none / 0) (#122)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:21:00 PM EST
    The little casino in the necropolis.  

    And no big thing getting busted out like that.  Small time tourney, I've had much worse happen, and she's such a character it's almost worth it for that alone.  Just keep those down cards down, mama.

    Parent

    And I should add (none / 0) (#123)
    by Dadler on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:22:41 PM EST
    She limped with those queens with four others limping in BEFORE her already. The small blind called so six people were in when I pushed. And she turns over the ladies. Classic.

    Parent
    More "Glengarry." So colorful. (none / 0) (#143)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:11:16 PM EST
    Not very Nice (none / 0) (#2)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:23:42 AM EST
    True, not very nice (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mr Tuxedo on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:51:24 AM EST
    But typical of the mind-set that views Secretary Clinton primarily as an extension of her husband.

    Parent
    No doubt in my mind (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:42:02 PM EST
    "I want to be clear that the United States is not in the business, in Egypt, of choosing winners and losers, even if we could, which, of course, we cannot," Clinton said at the opening of the consulate.

    (sarcasm alert)

    And, of course, Obama couldn't wait to invite a member of the Muslim Brotherhood to visit.

    Parent

    Romney left Bain in 1999 (none / 0) (#4)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:01:15 AM EST
    So the story is... (5.00 / 3) (#6)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:17:22 AM EST
    he left in such a hurry there was no time to bury the bodies aka sever all ties?  

    And these guys claim government is inefficient?  It takes two years to get the CEO who resigned's name off of all the paperwork?  If he was a secretary on the health insurance plan, it wouldn't take two years to get his name off the health insurance policy.

    One thing is certain, Mittens views Bain as a major liability, hence all the spinning and digging...and that is all that really matters politically.  

    Parent

    kdog (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:49:32 PM EST
    Professors take leaves of absence all the time to work on books, etc., etc. Yet they are still paid and are considered to be part  of the school by the school, etc.

    Private businesses do the same, including paying the individual.

    This isn't a big issue. If Obama's minions really thought it was they'd wait until October to push it.

    Parent

    Not a big issue to me... (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:19:25 PM EST
    but it appears to matter a great deal to Mitt Romney...how else can you explain the retreating from all things Bain post '99? My best guess is a guilty conscience.

     

    Parent

    "Private businesses do the same..." (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:25:56 PM EST
    Uh, I didn't say it's normal (none / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:21:32 PM EST
    But it's done.

    As to his contribution to the company....Actually his name, reputation, past record, etc., all very important to a company that raises money, invests, etc.

    You wanna get stoked, check out some Board of Directors, see who is on them and what they are paid!

    Parent

    But he was CEO. (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:34:50 PM EST
    We're not talking about Bain's board of directors (even though he was chairman of it).

    And while I won't disput that it was done an awful lot back then, the recent changes in the law and rules have pretty much rendered the "money for nothin', chicks for free"-type of performance obsolete for board members.

    If you are now serving on a board of directors of a for-profit company or non-profit organization, you have a legal fiduciary obligation to that company or organization to provide oversight and accountability. And if you fail to uphold your responsibilities to do so, you can be held legally and civilly liable by the Justice Dept. and shareholders / beneficiaries for the consequences.

    Parent

    Evidently no one (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:27:54 AM EST
    thought it was a problem.

    Of course now that he is running against Obama...

    Why....gasp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..... he is evileeeee incarnate

    In the meantime, gas prices are creeping up....

    Parent

    Gas prices again (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Yman on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 09:11:31 AM EST
    They've gone up 6 cents in the last couple weeks, which is slight compared to the usual summer increase.  Funny how you were quiet as a church mouse while they went down over 50 cents during the last 3 months.

    Parent
    He was also silent as the grave (none / 0) (#213)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 01:39:00 PM EST
    about the possible effect on energy prices all during the run-up to and aftermath of the Iraq invasion..

    Simply put, after years of..

    Parent

    But it's done... (none / 0) (#94)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:27:21 PM EST
    how's that link coming?

    Parent
    I want to know where to get a gig (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:32:07 PM EST
    like that...sounds pretty much perfect - and I won't even quibble about the taxes on it!

    Parent
    Magic words... (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by unitron on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:07:53 PM EST
    ...sole shareholder!

    Parent
    Hillary Clinton (none / 0) (#104)
    by kdog on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:43:16 PM EST
    on the Walmart B.O.D., Rahm Emanuel on the Freddie Mac B.O.D...it's a bipartisan racket, to be sure.


    Parent
    You don't get one (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:20:38 AM EST
    How's that for a reflection on what I think of your comment??

    Parent
    Don't be ridiculous (none / 0) (#179)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:58:55 PM EST
    Running a private equity firm has close to zero in common with being a university professor.

    And you righties keep claiming Obama knows nothing about how business works?  Oh, please.

    "Obama's minions" aren't so stupid as to have an irrevocable schedule for when to do what in the campaign.  They're plenty smart enough to seize on an openion, which they just did.

    Don't worry.  They've got plenty of other stuff in reserve for October.

    Parent

    I didn't say that running (none / 0) (#197)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:33:47 AM EST
    a private business is the same as being a professor.

    I said that people take leave of absences from private businesses just like professors do.

    And I'm not a "rightie".... Unless you want to think a rightie supports gay marriage, reform of our drug laws, right to choose, etc...

    But based on Obama's recent comments it is obvious he knows zip about running a business and thinks that the government must control everything.

    Parent

    Oh Slado (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by cal1942 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:19:09 AM EST
    the SEC filings speak for themselves AND he received a salary.

    As for testimony from Bain people  ...

    It's bad form for Romney to have claimed he retired from Bain when he was in fact listed as CEO, etc. AND received a salary.

    It's bad form for "Factcheck" to proffer contortions.

    Prime example is Politifact claiming Ryan's kill Medicare plan was anything but destroying Medicare as we know it.

    Parent

    Look I agree (none / 0) (#14)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:54:16 AM EST
    that he made money from Bain past 1999 but it seems pretty obvious that he wasn't running the show.

    Either way it doesn't matter politically because as long as Romney is countering a silly argument by focusing on the minute facts instead of the stupidity of the argument he loses.

    It's why Obama waited so long to confront the birthers.  It was a no win either way.

    Parent

    Nothing "obvious" about it, slado (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:17:55 PM EST
    Save, maybe, your political inclination.  Why don't we ask for some evidence from those who say that there is "no there there." It seems that good businesspeople would have some documents or other credible evidence that Mr. Romney did sever his ties completely (not even needing the "daily" qualifier)when he said he did...reasonable people surely can't be blamed for asking for documentation to rebut the SEC documentation & filings that Romney was completely in charge until 2002.

    Parent
    And reasonable people asked for Obama's (none / 0) (#67)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:24:23 PM EST
    birth certificate but those of us who weren't completely partisan took President Obama and the many who vouched for him at his word.

    I also believe 9/11 wasn't an inside job.

    I believe Oswald shot Kennedy.

    And I believe Mitt when he says he stopped running Bain in 1999 until given actual evidence that hasn't already been known and accounted for.   As in the SEC filings.

    Innocent until proven guilty.  

    That is the problem with these stories.  Only one side is right.   There are not two views to this story and I'd hope we'd believe the individual till he's proven to be lying.

    Parent

    Um, no. (5.00 / 7) (#68)
    by Angel on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:27:58 PM EST
    Reasonable people did not ask for Obama's birth certificate.

    Parent
    Does the slado comment tell you more about the (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:28:12 PM EST
    commenter or the subject?!?

    Parent
    If you have to ask ... n/t (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Yman on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:00:49 PM EST
    What was unreasonable in asking?? (1.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:22:45 PM EST
    You got it backwards. slado (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:59:44 PM EST
    Stop & think beyond just the Obama-Romney thing.  Look, I know that I would be thrown for a loop if my candidate were situated as Mitt Romney is in this situation.  Short version: Romney submitted official documents to SEC, said documents having legal significance...then, the submitter (Romney) during the heat of a campaign says that he wasn't what the legal documents show, etc. etc.  We are not talking about so-called "I can never know" birthers nor the types that believe the U.S. never set foot on the moon...we are talking about a situation with limited, finite facts (facts.) Normally, in situations like that, the issue is that a rebuttable presumption is created wherein the one claiming that it-isn't-what-you-see has to proffer more than just saying it ain't so.

    I think you know that. The only question I have is whether it is in your interest to not know that....  Then, it really doesn't matter what anyone says, does it.  Again, understand that Mitt isn't being tried in a court of law--maybe in the court of public opinion, tho--and, that means he is expected to explain with some back up documentation as part of going forward.

    Parent

    How is it obvious? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:29:36 PM EST
    George W. Bush was not actively involved in his own presidency, delegating everything to Cheney, but was he responsible?

    Parent
    I'll take paperwork over the (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by observed on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:40:17 AM EST
    testimony of interested parties, any day.
    Romney was the CEO, with final legal authority at Bain. No amount of contortions can remove this fact; nor should stories today about Romney's non-involvement at Bain trump his and his wife's testimony to the contrary, at the time.


    Parent
    Interested democratic parties? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 11:51:09 AM EST
    Look the facts are Romney was running the Olympics.

    His involvement with Bain was financial so an argument could be made that he benefited from any activity by Bain past 1999 but he was not responsible for the day to day decisions.

    That would be the reasonable conclusion but since it's political season Obama and his supporters will continue to stick with the argument that being a successful businessman doesn't qualify you for the presidency vs. and unsuccessful president, at least economically.

    Parent

    "day-to-day" (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by christinep on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:13:01 PM EST
    What about weekly, monthly, or occasional approvals/veto actions?  Day-to-day, as a qualifier, really stands out since every Repub talking about this recently (those who defend the reluctance to explain anyway...so, not all) uses the interesting "daily" qualifier. Hmmmm.

    Parent
    A delegator bears ultimate responsibility... (5.00 / 4) (#17)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:18:08 PM EST
    ... If Romney did not like what was going on in his company, he could stop it. Whether his role was active or passive, he had a role.

    His recent FEC filings, also made under oath, say he had no involvement "in any manner" with Bain after February 1999.

    Ms. Cutter of Obama's campaign was wrong in saying he either lied to the voters or committed a felony with the SEC filings. It should have been, he either committed a felony with the August 2011 FEC filings. D-day's post linked above reminds us that the GOP considers perjury to be an impeachable offense.

    In other words to Slado, this is a big deal.

    Parent

    Oops, news.fdl link (none / 0) (#20)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:19:30 PM EST
    You are making the wrong assumption (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by observed on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:18:26 PM EST
    It's completely ridiculous to assume without any evidence that Romney had zero role in Bain after 1999. It flies against common sense and, as I mentioned already, goes against his own previous testimony.

    But what you're really missing is the incredible spectacle of a man who implicitly suggests that the moment he left the helm, his company started to do things which were political liabilities to him. I'd like an explanation of this very, very odd circumstance.
    If Romney were a man, he would happily own up to the deals of a company he owned and for which he had full legal responsibility.
    His attempt to pass the buck is a terrible indictment of his character.

    Parent

    He'd also release his tax returns... (5.00 / 4) (#24)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:27:50 PM EST
    ... rather than hide behind the action's of a candidate's wife from 2004, who refused to release her returns from before she married said candidate.

    Parent
    Slado (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:51:03 PM EST
    unsuccessful president, at least economically.

    You are being way too kind.

    Parent

    Just making a point :) (1.50 / 2) (#72)
    by Slado on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:34:42 PM EST
    Look to me PPJ I find this whole "attack" against Romney hilarious.

    Case in point Obama is so emboldened now he told every business owner in the country that they shouldn't feel good about their success.   Somebody else and the government is really responsible.

    Unbelievable.

    Parent

    That's a completely ridiculous ... (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by Yman on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:05:15 PM EST
    Case in point Obama is so emboldened now he told every business owner in the country that they shouldn't feel good about their success.   Somebody else and the government is really responsible.

    ... mischaracterization of what he actually said.

    Link.

    But not remotely surprising.

    Parent

    Just to add (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:22:43 AM EST
    I know know you are utterly and unredeemably dishonest, not just somebody with a different perspective and point of view.

    Parent
    Agreed (1.00 / 1) (#93)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:26:25 PM EST
    Obama's one and only chance is to engage in class warfare.... "Pay no attention to the economy... ooops.... man behind the screen."

    Parent
    We're talking about Romney, who ... (none / 0) (#126)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:42:14 PM EST
    ... wants to be our president. His repeated dissembling about both his record at Bain Capital and now his time spent there as its CEO are a direct reflection upon his personal character -- and increasing numbers of people are not liking what they're seeing.

    Parent
    Of course, that's not what (none / 0) (#180)
    by gyrfalcon on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 12:21:25 AM EST
    he said, but that doesn't matter to you.

    Parent
    Another story angle might be that... (3.00 / 2) (#35)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:56:12 PM EST
    Romney cannot under any circumstances be linked to Brookside Inc., who made their money off of disposing medical waste including of aborted fetuses.

    "More importantly, this SEC filing represents W. Mitt Romney as "the sole shareholder, Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and President of BCI, BCP VI Inc., Brookside Inc. and Sankaty Ltd." (emphasis mine)."

    This story could sink him with the fundies of his own party.

    Parent

    A troll rate for a link to an article... (none / 0) (#139)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:36:36 PM EST
    about a possible motivation for why Romney might be even in a tighter spot on this issue? All the link said is that Romney might be entrenched on not disclosing more information, because of needing to keep his base. How is that objectionable?

    Parent
    It's a story (2.25 / 4) (#21)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:20:18 PM EST
    equivalent to the birther nonsense.

    Parent
    Seriously...? (5.00 / 4) (#22)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:23:18 PM EST
    Yes, seriously (none / 0) (#33)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:52:49 PM EST
    Anyone who would vote for Obama will vote for Obama.

    Anyone who would vote for Romney will see the facts and not change.

    Parent

    The point is true (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:57:07 PM EST
    even if the delivery is deliberately rude and provocative.

    But CW says those aren't the voters that will determine the outcome.  Ergo, the courting of the undecideds.

    Parent

    That's provocative? (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:17:19 PM EST
    Really? ;-)

    Parent
    No. And I think you are correct. (none / 0) (#74)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:35:41 PM EST
    That's not the point... (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:58:58 PM EST
    ... Obama was born in Hawaii.

    How is the birther conspiracy in any way equal to the proof of Romney filing inconsistent statements under oath and having offshore investments and accounts while being part of a firm that outsources jobs to other countries?

    Parent

    I think Jim is making the larger point ... (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:52:49 PM EST
    ... that facts really don't matter to knuckle-dragging wingnuts, regardless of whether the subject is Barack Obama's Hawaii birth certificate, or Mitt Romney's signatures on SEC filings in his capacity as Bain Capital CEO on a part-time temporary leave of absence in Salt Lake City.

    That's probably not the point he meant to make, but that's certainly my takeaway.

    Parent

    I think Obama is a totally (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:28:00 PM EST
    manufactured story.... by the press. Everyday he proves me right.

    Parent
    In reply to comment #95... (none / 0) (#102)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:41:25 PM EST
    this comment says it all about why you're defending Romney.

    Parent
    With his other comments... (none / 0) (#81)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:56:34 PM EST
    ... I'm not sure that's the case. He and Slado think Obama is manufacturing a story, like the manufactured Obama was from Kenya claim.

    Parent
    Come On... (none / 0) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:08:21 PM EST
    ...too funny, they are running with whatever Fox is running with.  I guarantee if I could stomach the channel they are putting out the exact same mem.

    Parent
    Thanks Don, I knew (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:28:40 PM EST
    I could count on you to make a personal attack..

    lol.

    Parent

    Any time, Jim. (none / 0) (#128)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:43:56 PM EST
    No thanks are needed.

    Parent
    You're just digging yourself (5.00 / 3) (#136)
    by jondee on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:28:03 PM EST
    a deeper hole, Donald..

    Jim's back to routing out and exposing secret Muslims and jihadists at his website, and questioning the purity of his positions seems to be one of the telltale signs.

     

    Parent

    And also keeping busy accusing TL commenters (5.00 / 3) (#138)
    by shoephone on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 06:32:09 PM EST
    of "stalking" him...

    Parent
    Yes shoephone (none / 0) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:19:05 AM EST
    I do point out the facts.

    Parent
    After years (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:18:26 AM EST
    of personal attacks by jondee and his continual demonstration of an inability to debate the issues I am forced to note that discussing anything with him is not worthwhile. Simply put, he is incapable of a reasoned debate

    Parent
    Oh (none / 0) (#212)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 01:34:35 PM EST
    so you're not claiming Obama's a secret Muslim at your website..

    I'm going to have to go back and reread that post.

    Btw, the whining like a little Teabagger girl doesn't become you..

    Parent

    Congratulations (4.00 / 4) (#39)
    by shoephone on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:02:20 PM EST
    You win Stupidest Comment of the Day.

    Parent
    The bad news is that it's early yet... (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Anne on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:08:19 PM EST
    I'm sure there's more on the way.

    Parent
    It's always early somewhere (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by unitron on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 01:27:26 PM EST
    "The bad news is that it's early yet...I'm sure there's more on the way. "

    I knew there was a reason I liked you.  : - )

    Parent

    Gergen also has a conflict of interest... (none / 0) (#27)
    by magster on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 12:34:42 PM EST
    ... and is likely a facilitator of John King's sources to Bain insiders. Fox has been fairer on this story than CNN.

    Parent
    Thanks, BTD (none / 0) (#59)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:07:56 PM EST
    I am much obliged.

    Ex post facto. Oh, wait, this is a blog. (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:36:26 PM EST
    Before... after... (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:41:12 PM EST
    It matters not to me.  But a GZ free thread:  that is a thing to be appreciated :)

    Parent
    US Navy ship (none / 0) (#77)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 02:41:17 PM EST
    fires on a "small white pleasure craft" in the Persian Gulf (near Dubai), after it came too close.  One person is dead.

    Pulled the plug (none / 0) (#91)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:23:16 PM EST
    On McCartney and Springsteen jamming in Hyde Park.

    I'm pretty sure that's a mortal sin (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:23:46 PM EST
    Ordinarily I would agree (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by ruffian on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:16:07 PM EST
    But I'm not sure a Springsteen- Sir Paul rendition of La Bamba is on anybody's bucket list.

    Parent
    and the Beatles Twist and Shout in medley (none / 0) (#168)
    by DFLer on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 10:28:55 PM EST
    Little Steven nailed it.... (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 08:30:05 AM EST
    "English cops may be the only individuals left on earth that wouldn't want to hear one more from Bruce Springsteen and Paul McCartney!"

    Seriously.

    They pulled the same curfew crap on us at the Great South Bay Music Festival on Sunday...severe thunderstorms passed through and they had to pull the plug for about an hour, and with the stupid curfew Ollabelle only got to jam out for 30-40 minutes.  

    Silly piggies, curfews are for kids.

    Parent

    Can't Have... (none / 0) (#100)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 03:39:31 PM EST
    ...some band disturbing the kazillionaires who actually live there.

    "Peasants and there mildly amusing forms of entertainment should not disturb civilized society."

    And this business of penalizing bands that run late, that should be a fricken crime.

    Parent

    Ah, but (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:53:10 PM EST
    Aren't the band members also kazillionaires?

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#116)
    by sj on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 04:55:37 PM EST
    but they don't live there, so it's irrelevant.  You read the article and got Scott's point, right?

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by jbindc on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 05:53:21 PM EST
    I was making a joke.

    Parent
    Message for Observed... (none / 0) (#146)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 07:32:10 PM EST
    Does Astana need any statisticians? Research project type? My feet are getting itchy.

    It's not football season yet (none / 0) (#158)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:02:30 PM EST
    but Heath Bell has been troubling to my baseball fandom. So on a recent trip to New Orleans I stopped at mecca for a reminder of

    Gator Football

    Wow. Bronzed, and so young. (none / 0) (#159)
    by oculus on Mon Jul 16, 2012 at 09:04:14 PM EST
    I mistakenly credited Heath w/not blowing save in the final game at Busch Stadium.  My brother quickly corrected me.  

    Parent
    The weather (none / 0) (#202)
    by DFLer on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 09:55:37 AM EST
    Man...we better get some rain PDQ, or not many field crops this year....we need a good soak.

    People around here have already given up trying to keep their public garden spots watered...opting for farmers' markets instead...(not a bad thing)

    Last night here (in SE MN) it was 100 degrees air temp with 46% humidity...at 10:30 at night!!

    sheesh

    It's probably too late... (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 10:00:35 AM EST
    for the crops this year.  Food prices will be shooting up soon.  

    How will PBJJimmie blame that on Obama?

    Parent

    My guess is by... (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by sj on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 10:06:53 AM EST
    ... blaming gas prices. :)

    Parent
    well, my sources (none / 0) (#208)
    by DFLer on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 10:56:03 AM EST
    yes, Iowa cousins again! say that a high yield crop is already out the door. Now, if they don't get a good soak before pollination time (in a few weeks) there will be no corn crop anyway.

    food prices...as you say...

    I'm reminded of the Aerosmith song: Eat the Rich

    Parent

    Everything you need to know about the Iowa (none / 0) (#209)
    by Farmboy on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 11:58:57 AM EST
    thanks farmboy (none / 0) (#211)
    by DFLer on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 01:10:46 PM EST
    good info.

    tho I will still check with the cousins in Jones County.

    Parent

    How many cousins do you have? (5.00 / 2) (#215)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Tue Jul 17, 2012 at 02:35:50 PM EST
    Here's the article in our daily "paper" this morning.

    In the High Plains states of North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Nebraska, Colorado and Kansas, the areas designated as being in moderate to exceptional drought rose to 84 percent as of July 10 from 74 percent a week earlier.

    That doesn't bode well for the Summer wheat or the upcoming planting of Winter wheat.

    Parent