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Friday Open Thread

Really busy day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Senate Polls (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 03:39:37 PM EST
    have been thin today. Only stuff so far is two out of Wisconsin. Baldwin vs Thompson.

    Rasmussen (a right leaning poll) Baldwin +3
    PPP (a left leaning poll) Baldwin +4

    Just using polls from September, an average gives Baldwin a lead of +3.6. There is some consistency there. Thompson is blaming Romney for his drop in the polls.

    In my wildest dreams I did not think (5.00 / 4) (#3)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 03:45:43 PM EST
    Romney would be so bad as to take everyone else down with him. Awesome.

    Parent
    I know it won't happen, (none / 0) (#15)
    by magster on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:17:05 PM EST
    but I clicked on Tennessee because I saw that it was light pink in TPM's aggregation site has Obama down 7 in the latest yougov poll, which is the same spread as what yougov says Romney is losing by in Nevada. If Romney's implosion continues, would TN be in the same category as IN and MO.

    Parent
    Its like Christmas everyday (none / 0) (#105)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 24, 2012 at 08:30:57 AM EST
    I think I saw a Montana poll (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by MKS on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 03:56:48 PM EST
    that actually showed Tester up.

    It would be good to see a couple of North Dakota and Indiana polls.  The Republicans were favored there but not by much....

    Parent

    Slim pickins (none / 0) (#12)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:38:55 PM EST
    from those two states. Probably because they aren't considered swing states, not in a large market, or created controversy.

    Based on Nate Silver's calculations through last night...Of those states not currently leaning Dem but still competitive, the three states Dems have the best chance of turning the tide and still winning Senate battles are:

    in order

    1. Indiana (Donnelly)
    2. Nevada  (Berkley)
    3. Montana (Tester)


    Parent
    Is the GOP (none / 0) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:11:45 PM EST
    bench so thin that they can't come up with someone better than Thompson? I mean wasn't this guy gov of WI back when Reagan was president?

    Parent
    The GOP primary wars in Wisconsin (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 11:57:03 AM EST
    were vicious.  Tommy is vicious.  Thus, he won -- that step, anyway.

    But the detritus of the resultant disaffection now is surfacing.  The other primary candidates simply are doing nothing to rally their troops to Tommy; indeed, for all I know, they are working against him . . . as they're fairly vicious, themselves.

    Essentially, I think that you are seeing in Wisconsin what happened at the national level in the GOP.  The old guard got their guy through to the nomination but now can do no more for him, at least as is measurable in these polls.  Their new voter-suppression laws and tactics are so extreme in Wisconsin, though, that those still may win it for Tommy at the real polls in November.

    Parent

    p.s. Why Obama found his comfy shoes (none / 0) (#75)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 01:46:56 PM EST
    and came back to Wisconsin today, at long last.

    This video was starting to go viral.

    Parent

    Do you remember that Thompson (none / 0) (#20)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:27:03 PM EST
    ran for Senate in 2008 and made some stupid/stereotypical comments about Jews being great at finances and having a tradition of making a lot of money?

    A gaffe master all by himself. No Romney batteries included.

    Parent

    That's (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:00:26 PM EST
    what I was thinking. Thompson would be doing bad no matter who the GOP was running for Prez though I would have to say that if they had picked Newt things might even be more interesting.

    Tidbit I picked up from Current is that many out of office Republicans think that Newt is the reason for the decline of the GOP.

    Parent

    It (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:01:32 PM EST
    would be interesting to see a bunch of right wing republicans defeated. And some Blue Doggie Dems as well.

    Then we would get a chance to see what Obama does when he can't say that the opposition stopped him from doing what he really wanted to do.

    I hope I'd be proven wrong, but I don't think we would see the remotest change.

    What seems to be missing from the conversation (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:17:34 PM EST
    about Romney's 2011 tax returns:
    The Romneys only claimed a tax deduction for $2.25 million of those charitable contributions to engineer a higher tax rate than they otherwise would have paid. This move was to "conform" to the candidate's statement in August that he paid a federal income tax rate of at least 13 percent of his income in each of the last 10 years, R. Bradford Malt, Romney's trustee, said in a statement released by the campaign.

    I just love the after-the-fact modifications Romney uses to prop himself up. What a creep.

    The bulk of my income is from wages: (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:16:38 PM EST
    it comes from me working for my money.

    The wealthy?  They send their money out to work for them - their money is the one with the job, so why not treat it as if it were wages?  

    Or do this: if you have earned income from wages, the income you earn from interest or dividends or capital gains is exempt from tax; no earned income?  Pay at the current rates.

    As for Mitt, really how stupid and clueless does someone have to be to admit that he didn't use all the deductions he could have so he could artificially inflate his effective tax rate?  On the one hand he says it would be foolish to pay one penny more than he had to, and then he turns around and admits to doing exactly that.

    Looks like a fool to me.

    Parent

    Because (1.67 / 3) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 08:55:41 PM EST
    The wealthy?  They send their money out to work for them - their money is the one with the job, so why not treat it as if it were wages?

    The reason for the reduction in long term capital gains tax is simple.

    The government wants money invested in companies to be left in place long enough for the company to put a plan in place and succeed.

    Make long term gains the same as regular income and people would jerk their money out at the first hint of a trouble without giving the company the chance to fix the problem.

    Parent

    Wrong again (5.00 / 6) (#60)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:36:17 PM EST
    Economists have been proving this myth wrong for years. (WaPo, January 2012)

    So is the capital gains tax rate really so insignificant? Perhaps. Back in August, the New York Times ran a piece on this very topic. Warren Buffett, for one, claimed that the tax rate on investment income doesn't make much of a difference to actual investors: "I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone -- not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 -- shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off."

    Meanwhile, Troy Kravitz and Len Burman of the Urban Institute have shown that, over the past 50 years, there's no correlation between the top capital gains tax rate and U.S. economic growth -- even if you allow for a lag of up to five years. "Moreover," they add, "any effect is likely small as capital gains realizations have averaged about 3 percent of GDP since 1960 and have never been more than 7.5 percent."

    It's also been proven false that giving tax breaks to corporations at the outset creates growth. The things that create a strong environment for new businesses are an educated, tech-savvy local workforce, good schools, proximity to customers, and the quality of public services.

    Parent

    Well, I guess that a tech savy (1.00 / 4) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 03:14:35 PM EST
    workforce is necessary for starting a trucking company... not....

    Too many people think the world begins and ends with a smartphone.

    As for WB, he may have a small point for the big players but for the small individual investor if he loses the reduction he will be much more aggressive in getting out in a hurry from all situations that become dicey.

    In either event it looks like WB could make his conscience go away by just writing a check to the US Treasury... But he doesn't.

    OTOH Romney drops a million or so to charity making his total contribution to society around $8.8M ($4.77M local/state/federal taxes, $4M charity)on $21M income. That's about 41% or around 22.8% if you want to just look at taxes.

    Talk is cheap. Actual work counts.

    Parent

    Especially for armchair warriors ... (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 03:28:49 PM EST
    In either event it looks like WB could make his conscience go away by just writing a check to the US Treasury... But he doesn't.
    ...
    Talk is cheap. Actual work counts.

    ... sitting at home watching John Wayne movies and sending others to war in hopes of cheap gas.

    Parent

    If I want to learn something about (5.00 / 4) (#79)
    by shoephone on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 03:29:51 PM EST
    business in the real world, I'll pay more attention to Warren Buffet than you every time.

    Parent
    Another wackadoodle comment: (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by shoephone on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 03:39:22 PM EST
    "Well I guess that a tech savvy  workforce is necessary for starting a trucking company... not...." said Jim, the imaginary businessman.

    Ever hear of a company called Paccar?

    PACCAR's (Nasdaq:PCAR) innovative application of information technology has earned the company the number one technology position in InformationWeek magazine's 2011 Top 500 company listing. PACCAR earned the recognition as a result of the development of its new TruckerLink application that builds upon the PACCAR Connected Truck program. The TruckerLink product, developed in partnership with Signalset, delivers leading-edge "carrier-switching" technology that enables a truck's telematics system to operate seamlessly nationwide with uninterrupted coverage on multiple wireless networks.

    "PACCAR is a leader in the application of software and hardware information technologies. Applied technology enhances the quality of all PACCAR products and services, which benefits our customers, dealers and suppliers. PACCAR is pleased to be honored by InformationWeek magazine," said Mark Pigott, PACCAR chairman and chief executive officer. "This wonderful recognition reflects the dedication and talent of PACCAR's 22,000 global employees."

    Oops!!!

    "Talk is cheap" said Jim, the imaginary businessman.

    It sure as he[[ is.

    Parent

    Your problem is that you assume (1.00 / 1) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 10:03:23 PM EST
    every new trucking company must be a PACCCAR.... wait!!!!!!!!

    PACCAR isn't a trucking company...it builds stuff for trucking companies

    PACCAR is a global technology leader in the design, manufacture and customer support of high quality light-, medium-, and heavy-duty trucks under

    Do you read your links before you post them??

    As someone who actually was involved with two start ups and had some experience begging money I think I know a bit about how investors look at start ups.

    I also know a bit about how small investors view stocks, prices and risks seeing as I also did that.

    For example, assume you have bought a stock at $10. Eight months later it has gained $5 bucks to $15. Now should you sell it and take the profit or hold it? Well, with an effective tax rate of around 30% if you sell it your profit is now $3.50. If you hold it your profit is $4.25 if it holds at $15.00 Say you purchased 2000 shares, that's either an $8500 profit or a $7000 profit depending on your decision.

    Looking at it from another view, if you hold, you have a $1500 edge to gamble with. So if the company is looking a bit shaky you can roll the dice and hold, hoping they succeed and turn that $5.00 profit into $10.00 Without that edge you'd be a crazy to hold and you would sell.

    Of course the WB's of this world are buying and selling using computer programs that act on minute changes. Totally different situation.

    And no, talk is never cheap.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#84)
    by Yman on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 10:19:25 PM EST
    "Talk is cheap. Actual work counts." - Jim at 03:14:35 PM

    ...

    "And no, talk is never cheap." - Jim at 10:03:23 PM



    Parent
    Depends on ... (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by Erehwon on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 12:25:13 AM EST
    who is doing the talking and who is doing the working!

    If the teapartier is collecting his medicare, that's a-ok, but if the blah lady (not driving the Caddy) is collecting her social security disability, that's a governmental program being massively abused!

    But then what else is new?

    Parent

    Kind of stunning (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 02:36:12 AM EST
    how quickly his house of cards falls apart.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 02:30:17 AM EST
    Yeah, I know how the stock market works. My grandmother, a very successful factory owner, started teaching me about the stock market when I was nine years old. I started investing when I was a teenager, and um...  I did well enough with my investments to put myself through music school. I also know quite well how capital gains taxes work, and so does everyone else here. You, on the other hand, can't even refute Kravitz's and Burman's statements, because you're so wierdly obsessed with Warren Buffet.

    I know all about Paccar too. I worked Paccar conferences for 2-1/2 years. I know much more about that company and their management than you could ever hope to. Deny and obfuscate all you want. You know so little about how the real world works it's embarrassing. Here's a little hint for you: It's not 1962 anymore. Pretty much everything these days depends on strong communications systems and up-to-date technologies.

    It's really a good thing you're retired.

    Parent

    I'm glad you made money. (1.00 / 1) (#90)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:41:57 AM EST
    I am glad you know all about the market.

    But my point was, which you wrote:

    "Well I guess that a tech savvy  workforce is necessary for starting a trucking company... not...." said Jim, the imaginary businessman.

    I could have added that what you need are drivers. And drivers aren't software engineers.

    You respond with writing all about PACCAR, which isn't a trucking company.

    What you do or do not know about PACCAR has nothing to do with the subject.

    You either didn't know that or deliberately tried to reframe and parse.

    Since that is obvious I don't know why you keep digging a hole.

    My second point is that small individual investors do not respond the same way the WB's do. They have fewer resources, and different goals.

    You know your insults are typical and continue to define your inability to debate.

    Sad. Really sad.


    Parent

    Sad indeed (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 11:36:45 AM EST
    My god, the stupid, it burns (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 11:38:50 AM EST
    Jim, do you actually know anything about trucking companies, or are you just blowing smoke out of your a$$, as usual?

    The people who drive the trucks are only one part of the company, and they are not the people who run the company. And hey, Jim, have you ever heard of... dispatch? Look it up in the dictionary. The dispatch office is an integral part of trucking, moving, and delivery companies. Do you know what goes on in a dispatch office? I sure do. I worked in a dispatch office for two years. And glory be, we not only had to have the most up-to-date phone systems and radio systems, we had to have those funny, new fangeled things they call "computers." Right there in the dispatch office. Can you imagine??? Way back in the 1980's! Computers in the dispatch office! I kid you not. And those of us working in the dispatch office had to know how to use those new fangled computery things, not only to track pick-ups and deliveries, but to input all the drivers' stats so we could compute (oh, there's that word again!) which routes ran the smoothest, which drivers had the best times, the most deliveries in a day, week or month, where and how mistakes were made... Funny things like that, which actually make a delivery company operate and become successful. Lucky for me I'd been using computers since 1978, so it wasn't too tough to learn the dispatch system. Glory be, glory be. Imagine! Technology in the dispatch office! And they had even more new fangled computery things in the accounting office. And in the manager's office. And the owner -- even he had computery things in his office. In the 1980's! And I've heard from friends still associated with that company that things have gotten even more computery and complex-like since then. Glory be.

    Now, tell us again, who's the sadsack dumb bunny who doesn't actually understand the way businesses operate?? I think your bathroom mirror is about to crack.

    Parent

    anf if one knew anything about trucking (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by DFLer on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 12:02:11 PM EST
    one would know that the drivers themselves are pretty tech savvy, and are extremely hooked up in their rigs.

    Parent
    Exactly. (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 12:05:26 PM EST
    And Yman's link proves that beyond any doubt. But our imaginary businessman will never be able to admit when he's wrong, in spite of all the irrefutable evidence.

    Parent
    Meaningless (1.00 / 3) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 02:41:56 PM EST
    The point was that you need truck drivers to run a trucking company. That they can access the Internet, etc., is meaningless.

    Of course the point wasn't just trucking companies. How about car dealers? Should they have great sales people who may use some technical devices or great technical device users who may use some sales techniques?

    Parent

    Pathetic and tiresome (5.00 / 3) (#102)
    by shoephone on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 03:17:34 PM EST
    You continue to insist that a tech-savvy workforce is not necessary for starting a trucking company, despite being proven wrong again and again. Read Yman's link. You lost the argument. That you can't admit it speaks volumes.

    Parent
    Nope, I said (none / 0) (#107)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 01:25:30 PM EST
    Well, I guess that a tech savy (1.00 / 4) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 02:14:35 PM CST
    workforce is necessary for starting a trucking company... not....
    Too many people think the world begins and ends with a smartphone.

    It is obvious that you need truck drivers and that skill set. And trust me. It is a skill.

    Without them dispatchers, warehouse workers, etc.... are not needed.

    It is also humorous to see how you denigrate the actual worker. And here I thought you were a Democrat.

    Could it be you just want to argue?

    Parent

    You can't start a trucking company ... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Yman on Thu Sep 27, 2012 at 10:40:20 AM EST
    ... with only drivers, and no one is "denigrating the worker".

    Parent
    of course "accessing the internet" for (5.00 / 4) (#103)
    by DFLer on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 05:36:41 PM EST
    truckers is neither meaningless or frivolous. Road conditions, weather conditions, dispatch contact, cargo manifests, drop off points, invoices, etc, etc., all potentially online.

     

    Parent

    The skill set is in driving an 18 wheeler (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Sep 25, 2012 at 01:16:48 PM EST
    not in typing www......

    Parent
    Of course (1.00 / 2) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 02:20:41 PM EST
    The people who drive the trucks are only one part of the company,

    No one said otherwise.

    OTOH management can't drive the truck. Dispatch can't drive the truck.

    Funny how we got to this point:

    To my comment that the LTCG tax rate was favored by the government to stablize investment in companies:

    The government wants money invested in companies to be left in place long enough for the company to put a plan in place and succeed.

    You responded:

    It's also been proven false that giving tax breaks to corporations at the outset creates growth. The things that create a strong environment for new businesses are an educated, tech-savvy local workforce, good schools, proximity to customers, and the quality of public services.

    Of course my comment never mentioned new businesses. I thought it obvious new and old don't need a highly volatile stock price. So I just noted that technology by itself isn't everything.

    Well, I guess that a tech savy (1.00 / 3) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 02:14:35 PM CST
    workforce is necessary for starting a trucking company... not....
    Too many people think the world begins and ends with a smartphone.

    You came back with a lecture about a non-trucking company, PAACAR.

    When I noted that and explained what the LTCG tax means to a small individual investor you came back with your grandmother's factory, how much you know about PAACAR (as if that was germane)and a snarky personal attack.

    When I noted what you were doing:

    What you do or do not know about PACCAR has nothing to do with the subject.

    You either didn't know that or deliberately tried to reframe and parse.

    You come back with more PAACAR and more personal attacks.

    The subject was my comment that the LTCG tax rate is important and favored by the government. My second point is that technology isn't the end all and be all for new and old companies.

    Thanks for proving you know nothing about anything except, I guess, PAACAR and can't debate, just insult.

    It is so sad that has become typical.


    Parent

    Nonsense. (none / 0) (#57)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 09:25:14 PM EST
    I understand the arguments for reduced rates on capital gains, which is why I went on to make a better suggestion: if you have income from wages, your unearned income would be tax exempt.  If you don't have income from wages, the unearned income would be taxed at the current rates for interest, dividends and capital gains.


    Parent
    Government picking winners? (none / 0) (#88)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 06:22:22 AM EST
    Yeah, they've been doing it for (1.00 / 1) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 08:57:01 AM EST
    years and years with tax policy.

    Now we see the expansion into forcing the country into a "green" energy scenario by the deliberate favoring of high oil prices.

    Parent

    "Favoring high oil prices"? (none / 0) (#95)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 11:49:36 AM EST
    ...Because if he had taken (none / 0) (#17)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:19:35 PM EST
    all the allowable deductions, his tax rate would have been more like 12% than 14%. And this is the guy who said he would never pay more in taxes than was legally necessary, because people who do that are fools.

    Parent
    I was just going to post this story too (none / 0) (#38)
    by ruffian on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:37:00 PM EST
    Very interesting. Onthe Young Turks they thought it would be closer to 9%.

    I'm wondering if his team of accountants have been off amending returns all these months. I'm sure changing the amount of charity claimed is a lot easier than changing all the other deductions and loopholes he used. This guy is soooo slimy.

    Parent

    I don't think there can be any doubt (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:41:41 PM EST
    that the reason they took so many months to release the return is exactly as you have posited. His team of accountants needed time to convince him how to skate through just over the line of that "never paid less than 13%" claim. And 20 years of summaries insead of actual returns? Laughable. The guy is hiding a lot of stuff.

    Parent
    Yeah some long nights (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by lilburro on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:21:08 PM EST
    for those accountants I think.  The summary is beyond funny.  It suggests there is something Romney doesn't want us to see.  That's as clear as day.  And it smacks of that "you people" condescension we have all come to love.

    Based on the campaign so far I assume Romney will say something within the next 4 days to compound this issue.  The world waits.

    Parent

    I think that the reason for (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Anne on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 08:17:17 AM EST
    the "summary" is that it allows for some fun with numbers, not to mention that it obscures what's really wrong with the tax code.

    Statement from Citizens For Tax Justice (bold is mine):

    "It's an indictment of the federal tax code that a man of Mitt Romney's wealth could pay a federal tax rate as low as 10 percent. While he chose to forgo deductions for charitable contributions in order to keep his "commitment to the public that his tax rate would be above 13 percent," bringing his rate up to 14 percent for 2011, it is still outrageous that the code allows such a low rate.

    "He also takes advantage of a special low rate on investment income. The preferential rate on capital gains and dividends saved Mitt Romney a whopping $1.2 million in taxes in 2011, cutting his tax bill almost in half.  He would have paid $3.1 million in taxes without that special treatment. And much of his low-rate income is really compensation from Bain Capital that should have been taxed like regular wages or salary, but is disguised as capital gains using the "carried interest" loophole.

    "Romney also paid $675,000 under the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). If his own tax plan, which eliminates the AMT, had been in place in 2011, he would have saved himself an additional $675,000, or one third of his entire federal tax bill, and reduced his effective rate to 9 percent.

    "Also notice that Mitt Romney's tax return for 2011 is almost twice as long as it was in 2010. It is 379 pages long, and 250 pages are foreign entity disclosure forms. Put simply, that's 250 pages about his offshore investments.

    "Further, the summary provided by his lawyer is playing games by averaging Romney's 20-year tax rate. Including the years 1992-97 skewed his rate upwards because during those years, the capital gains rate was 28 percent instead of the 15 percent it is now. If they'd averaged only the last 15 years, his rate would have been much lower.

    "And one final point is that Romney continued to work and make lots of money even when his capital gains tax rate was almost double the current rate, the rate he wants to retain.  Yet he says that the low capital gains rate is essential to incentivizing rich people to do what they do.  How does he explain that?"

    Yeah, I'm looking forward to a much larger discussion of what Romney's tax situation would look like if calculated under the plan he's now proposing; pretty sure there are a lot of calculators cranking up that one.

    Parent

    Perhaps a creep but ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Erehwon on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:23:47 PM EST
    he's creeping toward realizing that the plebs' opinion needs to kept in mind. An improvement, methinks! At this rate of improvement, he might be worth taking a second look at ... for the election of 3012!

    Parent
    Were any of those donations... (none / 0) (#35)
    by unitron on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:32:49 PM EST
    ...to anything other than his church or outfits affiliated with it?

    And how much money is his church putting into trying to get him elected?

    Parent

    And those tax breaks are only deferred (none / 0) (#72)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 11:59:20 AM EST
    I read, so that he still can claim them next year and pay a pittance.

    Parent
    Mitt (5.00 / 5) (#19)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:23:53 PM EST
    is the greatest ad for why the over $250,000 will have their taxes increase next year. He has single-handedly turned the tide in favor of increasing taxes on the wealthy. For this and this alone we owe him thanks.

    and the jerks who spent $50000 per plate... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by magster on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:37:32 PM EST
    ... to see him. That whole video just shows the extent of how far the class warfare has evolved. It was like a party in Panem.

    Parent
    It (none / 0) (#31)
    by lentinel on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:07:32 PM EST
    was like watching a bunch of hogs at the troth.

    Parent
    The hogs at the trough... (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by unitron on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:31:16 PM EST
    ...pledged him their troth.

    Parent
    A frothy broth (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by DFLer on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 08:28:10 PM EST
    with the big payoff

    Parent
    Idea. (none / 0) (#67)
    by lentinel on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 03:50:54 AM EST
    I was thinking about other things that might rhyme...
    when it popped into my head that there was a tv show - a million years ago - called, "The Big Payoff". The winner got a fur coat.

    The winner of this years election should be given a fur coat.
    Then, they, and we, can all go home.

    Parent

    Okay I'll give it a quick try (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by DFLer on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 08:54:59 AM EST
    The winners gets a big fur coat
    So they can gloat
    Behind their moat
    And keep their Pradas
    On our throats


    Parent
    Georgia gun range to serve alcohol (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by Yman on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:41:53 PM EST
    And the city council approved (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:45:48 PM EST
    his liquor license application by a 4-1 vote.

    The south is another country. Although I could probably say the same thing about Idaho, which is right next door to me.

    Parent

    Of course (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:55:47 PM EST
    this is actually not far from where I live.

    Parent
    Romney reboots??? (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by DFLer on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 09:49:51 PM EST
    I guess Mrs. Romney was right about how hard it is to run for president:
    Speaking to roughly 650 supporters gathered at Grand Del Mar, a luxury hotel north of San Diego, Romney said his campaign schedule has been hectic.
    "I'm not even going to be able to go home today," he said of his second home in nearby La Jolla. "We're just coming to town to see you and keep the campaign going. It's nonstop."

    Drooling for dollars here:

    At the Saturday fundraiser donors paid as much as $25,000 to attend, he did little to help that image (of an out-of-touch millionaire) He told the audience he spent the night before raising money at a San Francisco area mansion.

    "Property up there is, I'm sure, very, very expensive. And we got to her driveway - it was at least a mile long, up and up, it's like, Oh my goodness, how in the world?" Romney said. "And then we came to the home, and it was like San Simeon, you know, the Hearst castle. It was this beautiful home with gardens, manicured gardens, and a pool and a topiary and so forth."
    Romney charged that the president is taking America on a "pathway to become like Europe," adding a jab at his audience's home state.

    "Europe doesn't work there. It's never going to work here," Romney said. "It's even possible we could be on a pathway to become California - I don't want that either."

    He later said he was joking.

    Europe doesn't work here? Drooling over castles seems very Old Europe to me. What an idiot.
    quote source

    Worst. Candidate. Ever. (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by ruffian on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 06:25:11 AM EST
    Of Dukakisian proportion.

    Parent
    Wonder how much money he raised (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by nycstray on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 11:17:57 AM EST
    in EuroCal?

    A$$hole.

    Parent

    Gaaaaahhhhh! (none / 0) (#1)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 02:23:33 PM EST
    The stink bugs are now migrating into the house again!  I hate the little buggers.
    At least so far, it's not as bad as last year, and not nearly as bad as the year before, when we wound up buying a canister vacuum cleaner just for the express purpose of sucking up the stink bugs (use your regular vacuum at your own risk- they stink up the vacuum cleaner).
    I hope the reduced numbers of stink bugs this year means that there are birds or other creatures that have learned to eat the d@mned things.

    I was almost convinced we were (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Anne on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:50:38 PM EST
    going to get through the summer without those blasted stink bugs, but alas, they are here, and they are still as annoying as ever.  They love the sun, so they cluster on the south and west sides of my house - in enormous numbers.

    Hate 'em - they just have no redeeming purpose whatsoever.  Vacuumed up a ton of them tonight, and tomorrow there will be more to replace them, and they will suffer the same fate.  Or, they will get flicked into a cup with some dish soap and water where they will become the main ingredient in what I call Stink Bug Soup...

    They wreaked havoc in my garden - they just want to suck the life out of the veggies - particularly the tomatoes.  And that's crossing the line, as far as I'm concerned!

    Death to the stink bugs!

    Parent

    I absolutely agree, Anne (none / 0) (#46)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:02:53 PM EST
    Disgusting creatures.  Death to stink bugs, indeed.

    Parent
    How do (none / 0) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:12:41 PM EST
    they get in your house? Do they crawl in or fly in? Fortunately I'm not familiar with them.

    Parent
    This is a very old house (none / 0) (#27)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:49:32 PM EST
    And they get into every single little, bitty crack or whatever (they basically crawl in).  I think I would have to shrink wrap the entire house to prevent them from coming in- they can squeeze into the smallest places, plus they leave a "trail" which other stink bugs apparently follow.
    Consider yourself lucky that they have not invaded where you live yet.  The brown marmorated stink bug is originally from Asia, and experts think that they have invaded the United States via shipping containers, probably from the Port of Philadelphia.
    They not only are unpleasant because of their smell, they have wreaked havoc on many crops in the mid-Atlantic region.


    Parent
    I am so sorry. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:01:28 PM EST
    We do have fire ants down here and these horrible black ants that will get into your house. I have had two NEW houses and had an invasion of these ants. Somehow they find a way to come directly into the pantry!

    Parent
    And you are both welcome to (none / 0) (#32)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:10:51 PM EST
    take some of our disgusting mutant-sized Northwest garden slugs...now available eight months of the year. And yes, on rare occasion, they do find their way into the house!

    Parent
    We've had slugs (none / 0) (#37)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:36:42 PM EST
    on occasion here, but not nearly to the extent you seem to have them!  When I see slugs, I pour salt on them.  Yes, it's disgusting, but yes, it works.
    I'm betting that you have way too many slugs for this to work.  So sorry, shoephone!

    Parent
    This year I only had to use the salt sparingly (none / 0) (#43)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:46:44 PM EST
    because I was on a very focused mission to exterminate. We had more and bigger slugs this last spring than ever before. I used Deadline pellets and let me tell you, they work. But it was so grotesque. I must have had at least 100 dead slugs in the garden and on the patio in the first four weeks of scattering the pellets. Luckily, the cat next door is old and never ventures beyond her own patch of yard, so I didn't fear hurting something else in the process.

    Parent
    We have too many (none / 0) (#45)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:59:33 PM EST
    cats (both feral and running-around-loose cats that belong to neighbors) and even dogs running around loose- the neighbors don't seem to worry about their pets being out all the time (but then, this is fairly rural, farming country).  So I could never use Deadline, which is very toxic for dogs and cats.  Fortunately, we don't have the slug problem that you seem to have.
    I'll ship you some of our stink bugs, though.  They wreak havoc on our fruit trees and other crops.   ;-)  

    Parent
    Sluggo is safe for pets (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by nycstray on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:16:09 PM EST
    I had to use it, if I don't, I get wiped out by slugs and snails in the veggie garden. Death to the slimers!

    Parent
    sorry to hear about the stink bugs, (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 09:22:52 PM EST
    fire ants and slugs but you ain't seen nothin' yet till you wake up to a crocodile sunning himself on your dock by your boat.  we also have brazillions of their little cousins IGUANAS eating everything green and growing.  however when we do get a cold snap the iguanas stall out, fall from the trees and the dogs eat their heads off.  such is nature in the sub-tropics.

    Parent
    Sounds good to me (none / 0) (#53)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:28:45 PM EST
    I hope that shoephone is reading this!

    Parent
    Well, of course, there's always beer (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:40:01 PM EST
    Deadly for slugs/quite nice for humans (particularly after a long afternoon of yard work).

    Parent
    As long as (none / 0) (#98)
    by Zorba on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 12:37:33 PM EST
    you're not drinking the beer that the slugs have just died in!    ;-)

    Parent
    Even cheaper than beer (none / 0) (#99)
    by Yman on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 01:12:15 PM EST
    Jerry Baker's recipe: in a gallon jug mix 1 lb brown sugar, 1.5 tsp dry yeast, fill the rest of the way with warm water and let it sit for two days.

    Parent
    We have great big banna slugs (none / 0) (#62)
    by cpresley on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:44:10 PM EST
    Their only redemming  value is they do help cleaning up after the dog :).

    Parent
    Whenever I hear "banana slugs" (none / 0) (#63)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 10:56:16 PM EST
    I think of my old alma mater's soccer team. Funny, I even saw a guy in Seattle today wearing a UCSC Banana Slugs t-shirt.

    Parent
    Yea (none / 0) (#65)
    by cpresley on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 01:20:34 AM EST
    It was always kind of weird to have a mascot named after a banana slug. Go Santa Cruz.

    Parent
    The Midwestern scourge: millipedes (none / 0) (#73)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 12:04:50 PM EST
    -- at least the scary scourge in my area -- also can come through the tiniest cracks and crevices, and they have done so in recent days of continued drought.  They seek warmth and moisture, so we are subjected to shrieks almost daily now, as the daughters are ready to step into the tub or shower and then espy a creepy-crawly millipede, as much as four or five inches long.  Ugh, ugh, ugh.

    Parent
    May I suggest: (none / 0) (#4)
    by the capstan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 03:49:19 PM EST
    go to youtube and listen to  this one: God Bless (half of) America. (I can't make it link..)

    I believe you may be (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:02:39 PM EST
    referring to this:  
    Link.

    Parent
    Thanks! and that led me to (none / 0) (#74)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 12:08:46 PM EST
    the faux Ann Romney singing "You People," a takeoff on Barbra Streisand.  I recommend it, too.

    "You people, you nosy little people . . . our taxes are not your taxes. . . ."

    Parent

    "Prius-driving peeeeeple..." (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by shoephone on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 01:59:23 PM EST
    That was very funny. Also, "I don't have to rhyme. I'm rich."

    And that video led me to this one:
    "What Do The Middle Class Do?" -- the funniest parody of Camelot I've heard yet. (Did you know...the newly laundered magic underwear just fold themselves?)

    Parent

    "Romney Pet Transportation Services" (none / 0) (#81)
    by Towanda on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 04:52:18 PM EST
    also is inspired.

    And the subtle transition from "pick up poo" to "that's what the middle class do."

    Parent

    The Daily Beast (none / 0) (#8)
    by samsguy18 on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:06:45 PM EST
    Obama's shaky Libya narrative......the more information discovered and uncovered leaves me with a sinking feeling.  How could the chain of circumstances become so convoluted?  
    Manipulating the truth especially when lives were lost is very disturbing.


    I think it's less manipulation ... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 11:42:24 PM EST
    ... of the truth, than speaking without the benefit of further information. That's the primary problem for public officials in this day and age of instantaneous communication, when the public demands they they provide some sort of respose in real time. Sometimes, it still takes time to get the entire story, and the best answer is to say that you'll reserve comment until you learn more.

    Parent
    New poll (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:23:36 PM EST
    in GA Romney 55 Obama 35. Not that I think Obama is going to win GA but this poll is really out there. John Kerry did better than 35%.

    Calling Fishcamp & Keysdan (none / 0) (#13)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:52:51 PM EST
    I believe we are all in District 26 this year in the Joe Garcia vs David Rivera House race. If you or anyone you know need a reason to vote for Joe Garcia over Rivera I can give you one.

    Here is the first Joe Garcia ad

    Thanks, CG. (none / 0) (#23)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:41:42 PM EST
    Am a volunteer for Joe Garcia in my area.  The campaign ad is good, but a better assessment for comparisons is to simply Google David Rivera---he should be running for cover rather than for the House.

    Parent
    David Rivera (none / 0) (#47)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:07:01 PM EST
    is why I was pro Joe Garcia before even knowing a lot about Joe Garcia. No need for me to google Rivera as his actions are well known to me. Glad you're on board.

    Parent
    I know you know (none / 0) (#49)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:13:52 PM EST
    all about Rivera.  I was thinking of a campaign ad for Joe Garcia--"To Know About David Rivera, Google is Your Friend."  by Citizens for Honest (at least reasonably so) Government!

    Parent
    Damn that would be great (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by CoralGables on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:24:42 PM EST
    I may have to use that line myself when talking to a few people.

    Parent
    thanx CG... (none / 0) (#58)
    by fishcamp on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 09:34:25 PM EST
    I know Capt. Pete Worthington, the mayor of Marathon, and he's a damn good guy.  I'll stop by and see what I can do to help.

    Parent
    Good (none / 0) (#14)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 04:58:11 PM EST
    You don't know that (none / 0) (#104)
    by SuzieTampa on Sun Sep 23, 2012 at 07:17:37 PM EST
    You cited the Daily Mail, not a great bastion of journalism. I looked at the local newspaper from Nottingham. The article gave few details, other than to say the 20-year-old lied because she regretted having sex with the three men. Perhaps you can point me to the evidence that her motive was ruining their lives.

    In case you don't understand what I'm trying to say: Do you think all the men who rape women are trying to ruin their lives? I don't. I think that's only one of many motives.

    In the Nottingham paper, one commenter said the police record differed from what was said in court, but I don't know how to get court records in the UK. Another commenter said she knew the woman well, she had been harassed after making the accusation, and she recanted in hopes the case would go away.

    Other commenters say she may have been very drunk, but if she went to a home containing 3 men, she was a slut who must have wanted to have sex.

    Parent

    On the TL thread "President Responds (none / 0) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:35:46 PM EST
    to Question on Romney Criticism (Cairo and Libya)"  my comment of 9/12 --Yes, this is so bad for Romney that he may have to release more tax returns just to change the subject--may have been good advise for a Romney campaign minute, but it quickly passed its shelf-life.

    That thread discussed Romney's charge, surrounding the middle east unrest, that the president sympathized with the attackers and noted that some, including Republicans, saw his lack of judgment as a "defining moment" for the Romney campaign. As we soon learned, there was more defining on the way with the window into Romney that the Boca Raton video provided.

    However, the tax returns are more likely to re-enforce the subject  of the "moocher class" for the hapless Romney than to change it.  Paying no federal income taxes (e.g., elderly on social security, disabled, military on combat)  earns Romney's disdain. But, paying half the federal income tax rate of most Americans is, apparently, admirable and good enough for a candidate for president of the USA.  

    Dan, we are counting on you, (none / 0) (#25)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 05:42:21 PM EST
    with your geographical position and your deep sources in the Caribbean to ferret out the rest of the Romney tax shelter story...

    ;-)

    Parent

    Will keep you posted. (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:37:27 PM EST
    Presently chasing down a lead on divers placing his doubloons in a sunken Spanish galleon off the Florida Straits.

    Parent
    LOL. That Herman Cain guy (none / 0) (#33)
    by shoephone on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:25:08 PM EST
    is at it again.

    "Stupid people are ruining America, and we've got to take it back," he said.

    Cain told members of the media after the speech that Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney's recent "47 percent" comment was a "non-story" being blown out of proportion by the media. But Cain said he would have been doing better if he was the nominee, saying that he'd probably have a "substantial lead" on President Barack Obama at this point.

    "The reason is quite simple: I have some depth to my ideas," he said.

    Well, I can totally agree with the first sentence. The nutbaggers and Jeezus wackos are definitely ruining the country. As to the rest... Herman, you really are entertaining.

    I'm betting that Herman Cain (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Zorba on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:39:18 PM EST
    certainly knows his "stupid," since he is one.

    Parent
    I'd agree with the first sentence... (none / 0) (#36)
    by unitron on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:35:06 PM EST
    ...if he'd said

    "Stupid people are ruining America, and we really ought to give it back."

    Parent

    Maybe Romney (none / 0) (#42)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 06:44:01 PM EST
    can learn something from Herman Cain.  Romney needs a new and improved campaign slogan--something catchy like Herman's 9-9-9.   I recommend "4 plus 9 get you to ll."   And, its heaven.  As with Cain's, it does not mean anything, but it has a nice ring.  

    Parent
    How Cain's slogan in reverse ... (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Erehwon on Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 07:11:37 PM EST
    Vote for Romney: "I have no depth to my ideas."

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#68)
    by lentinel on Sat Sep 22, 2012 at 03:53:30 AM EST
    that Romney's taxes should make very absorbing reading for all of us and I am so proud that so much pressure has been brought to bear on Romney and he has finally made this precious document available for all of us to enjoy.

    SITE VIOLATOR! (none / 0) (#109)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 26, 2012 at 01:18:51 PM EST