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NFL Sunday Open Thread

Yikes! That was ugly yesterday - lost all my profits for the year on a -26 unit day in CFB. But today will be different! Here's the Amato and Armando Show with our picks:

The picks (Disagreements in BOLD) - (A) Minnesota Vikings -1, (J) Chicago Bears +1, (A) Tennessee Titans +4, (J) Indianapolis Colts -4, (A)Atlanta Falcons +3½, (J) Buffalo Bills -3½, (J) Cleveland Browns -7, (A) Jacksonville Jaguars +7, Arizona Cardinals +3 over Philadelphia Eagles, (A) New Orleans Saints +5, (J) Seattle Seahawks -5, (A) New York Jets -1, (J) Miami Dolphins -1, (A) Tampa Bay Buccaneers +7½, (J) Carolina Panthers -7½ , New England Patriots -9 over Houston Texans, New York Giants -1 over Washington Redskins, (A) Kansas City Chiefs +6, (J) Denver Broncos -6, (J) St Louis Rams +71/2, (A) SF 49ers -71/2, (A) SD Chargers (PICK), (J) Cinncinati Bengals (PICK).

Open Thread.

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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 204 (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 09:42:18 AM EST
    He's 930 years old, and he's still flossing. (link)

    And the rest of last week's comics:

    v. 203
    v. 202
    v. 201
    v. 200
    v. 199
    v. 198

    Hope y'all enjoy the last day of the long holiday weekend. Peace.


    Things are looking up... (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 12:56:23 PM EST
    In primetime, Fox was down 21% in total viewers and 41% in the key 25-54 age demographic from last November -- when the presidential election boosted numbers. That marked the lowest decline -- both CNN and MSNBC were down more than 50% in both categories in primetime.
    [...snip...]
    Here are the ratings for November, via Nielsen:

    TOTAL DAY

    • FNC: 1,201,000 total viewers - down 18%; (248,000 in 25-54 - down 30%)
    • CNN: 335,000 total viewers - down 48%; (100,000 in 25-54 - down 59%)
    • MSNBC: 401,000 total viewers - down 45%; (124,000 in 25-54 - down 52%)
    • HLN: 213,000 total viewers - down 7%; (81,000 in 25-54 - down 14%)

    PRIMETIME 8-11PM/ET

    • FNC: 2,011,000 total viewers - down 21% (338,000 in 25-54 - down 41%)
    • CNN: 481,000 total viewers - down 54%; (153,000 in 25-54 - down 62%)
    • MSNBC: 645,000 total viewers - down 50%; (190,000 in 25-54 - down 57%)
    • HLN: 278,000 total viewers - down 2%; (90,000 in 25-54 - down 17%)

    -- Business Insider, November 26, 2013

    Mr. Transparent (5.00 / 6) (#12)
    by Edger on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 01:12:30 PM EST
    November 27, 2013
    Obama's Response To Too Much Secrecy About Surveillance... Is More Secrecy
    Anita Kumar, a reporter at McClatchy, has a good article highlighting how, for all the talk by the Obama administration about how it needs to be more open and transparent about what the NSA is doing, in actuality, the administration has built up the walls even higher, increasing the levels of secrecy... including secrecy about how he's responded to everything:
    Obama has been gradually tweaking his vast government surveillance policies. But he is not disclosing those changes to the public. Has he stopped spying on friendly world leaders? He won't say. Has he stopped eavesdropping on the United Nations, the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund? He won't say.

    Even the report by the group Obama created to review and recommend changes to his surveillance programs has been kept secret.

    As is noted in the article, the administration, which likes to pretend it's the most transparent in history, is actually one of the most secretive. Its attempts at transparency have almost exclusively been focused on where it can get the most political bang, not for what areas people expect the government to be transparent about -- such as how it interprets the laws that allow the government to spy on everyone...
    Course, if a republican tried this everybody would be able to see though him with no trouble at all, and that would be horrible. People would have to pretend to not like it.

    "Watch what they do, not what they say" (5.00 / 7) (#18)
    by shoephone on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 05:08:34 PM EST
    Dem and GOP are the same on this issue...once they the power to do these things, they never will give it up.

    McClatchy has always done great work.

    Parent

    - Same old Terrrrrrrrorist fearmongering (none / 0) (#93)
    by Mr Natural on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:42:17 PM EST
    from the dynamic duo of Feinstein & Rogers on Sunday's talkshows.

    On one point they are correct.  We will never be safe - from Feinstein & Rogers.

    Parent

    From digby (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:05:48 AM EST
    Via Jon Schwarz:

    Money is the basis of almost all relationships in DC. And, in a nutshell, this is why our political campaign system and DC's mushrooming Permanent Class...who alternate between government jobs and lawyering. Influence-peddling and finance...mean Wall Street always wins. The rest of the country may be divided into red and blue, but DC is green (that is, covered in money), and cheerfully so. Nationally, we're descending into bitter partisan warfare, while in Washington, professional Democrats and Republicans gleefully join together to work for those special interests that can afford to pay them. Among the political class, the center may be disappearing, but at my old lobbying firm, Quinn Gillespie & Associates, it's holding together quite well. From The Payoff by Jeff Connaughton

    digby

    Atrios (5.00 / 3) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:37:25 AM EST
    Where All The Waste Is

    Sure defense contractors are robbing us all blind, but we really need to cut the salary of the grunts.
    ...
    The point of cutting the pay of military personnel is to ensure there's more money for the contractors, and more money for the post-military salaries of the generals.




    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:43:18 AM EST
    Compensation includes pay, retirement benefits, health care and housing allowances. It consumes about half the military budget, and it is increasing.

    In a speech last month, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel warned that without serious savings in this area, "we risk becoming an unbalanced force, one that is well compensated but poorly trained and equipped, with limited readiness and capability." Meanwhile, Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army chief of staff, told a hearing: "The cost of a soldier has doubled since 2001; it's going to almost double again by 2025. We can't go on like this, so we have to come up with [new] compensation packages."



    Parent
    Slippery slope (none / 0) (#50)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:47:33 AM EST
    to an all-volunteer military?

    Parent
    Sure sign that the grunts are overpaid (5.00 / 4) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 11:29:42 AM EST
    Feed Our Vets, dedicated to ending hunger among struggling American veterans, reports that many active duty soldiers and their families struggle to put food on the table. About 20% of the military members who get help from the Watertown pantry are soldiers and spouses stationed at Fort Drum, home to 19,605 military and 19,810 family members.

    "Nearly every time there's a pantry distribution, active duty soldiers and families are lined along with veterans," said Synek. link

    Meanwhile back at the villa. Definitely fixer uppers. No time to relax and inadequate transportation also keep generals humble.

    Then there is the small item of the bloat in generals and admirals and the ratio of contractor's pay to grunts.

    Parent

    kdog - this one's for you: (5.00 / 5) (#48)
    by Anne on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:40:33 AM EST
    Via Peter King at SI.com:

    The Denver Post has hired a Marijuana Editor.

    Ricardo Baca, a blunt-speaking man, will be in charge of covering the rollout of the new recreational marijuana law in Colorado on Jan. 1. In an only-in-America Q&A last week, Baca was asked by the Post, which sounds like a hip joint, if he plans to have a pot critic covering the local reefer scene.

    His answer: "We are absolutely hiring a freelance pot critic. And a freelance pot advice columnist. And a freelance video game writer."

    What a country.

    Indeed!

    I have a dream... (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:47:35 PM EST
    that every paper in the country will have one, one day.

    Better get that freelance critic though...the Denver Post is all up in their employee's piss.

    Parent

    freelance video game writer? (none / 0) (#94)
    by unitron on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:46:41 PM EST
    One wonders if that wasn't a signal from the gentleman that he was speaking tongue in cheek.

    Unless he meant a freelancer who writes about video games.

    Which are not two different descriptions of the same job.

    Parent

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 205 (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Dadler on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 11:12:00 AM EST
    When a toast is about being toast. (link)

    Happy friggin' Monday, my friends.

    Speaking of toast... (5.00 / 6) (#55)
    by fishcamp on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:40:56 PM EST
    today is my birthday and I'm so old I feel like toast...

    Cheers, fishcamp! A happy birthday, (5.00 / 5) (#57)
    by Anne on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:52:05 PM EST
    and all best wishes for good health, great fishing and good eating!

    Parent
    Weird...'cuz I'm eating toast right now... (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:59:30 PM EST
    with marionberry jam. Coincidence? I don't think so!

    Happy Birthday, young'un!

    Parent

    Well, then, happy birthday ... (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:02:11 PM EST
    ... to an old piece of toast, from a stale muffin. Carpe diem.

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:08:24 PM EST
    Maybe saying "Carpe piscis" would be alright :)

    Parent
    How about ... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 02:33:17 PM EST
    Happy Birthday, fishcamp ! (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by sj on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:02:59 PM EST
    Throughout the ages, many beliefs and customs have been tied to fishing. Throwing liquor overboard was an offering that would secure a good catch. To wish the fisherman good luck or to express hopes for a good catch was a bad ting giving bad luck. Evil shall drive away evil, is a Norwegian saying, and still today Norwegians say "skitt fiske", meaning "I hope you don't catch anything". Other ways to wish a fisherman good luck was to cuss and swear, spit, or throw something at him, such as a rag, a shoe or a broomstick.
    So shall I swear or spit? :) Because I'm thinking that throwing the liquor overboard isn't the right way to go.

    Parent
    My experience has been (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by ragebot on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:03:04 PM EST
    that if I troll a pink and purple skirt and 1/2 oz lead sinker over the Hump past Sombrero I can usually get a hit from a tuna.  A blue and white skirt gets dolphin.

    Parent
    Happy Birthday fishcamp (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:03:47 PM EST
    With all the good fresh fish and Mrs. Z's Tzatziki to eat you will probably live forever.

    Have a great day!

    Parent

    Happy Birthday Bro! (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:15:44 PM EST
    "Not like a roach
    or a piece of toast
    Going out first class
    ain't going out coach"

    - The King Ad-Rock

    Parent

    Happy Birthday, fishcamp! (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Zorba on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:37:39 PM EST
    And may you have many more.  And get to spend plenty of time out fishing, too.  (And making more tzatziki.)


    Parent
    Happy Birthday! (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by jbindc on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:46:58 PM EST
    May the fish always be biting!

    Parent
    Thanks very much everybody... (none / 0) (#75)
    by fishcamp on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 03:57:49 PM EST
    Happy Birthday, (none / 0) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 04:28:37 PM EST
    Fishcamp.   Hope you celebrate  at Pierre's in your fish camping area of Islamorada.   A place and day to splurge!

    Parent
    Many happy returns (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by ragebot on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:36:14 PM EST
    Several years ago I was in the massage line at Ironman Florida and struck up a conversation with the guy ahead of me, Jim Ward.  At the time Jim was the oldest man to finish an Ironman at 83.  Jim was one of the first rangers ashore on D Day and during Vietnam was a special assistant to Dean Rusk.  He asked me when I did my first Ironman and when I replied when I was 40.  Jim then said 'gee I wish I had started as a young man like you did, I did not do my first Ironman till I was retired at 65.

    I still remember this every time I feel old.

    Parent

    Happy Birthday, fishcamp, from one old Oregonian (none / 0) (#77)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 04:23:51 PM EST
    to another. :-)

    Parent
    RIP, Paul Walker (1973-2013). (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:42:52 PM EST
    In probably the cruelest of ironies, the star of Hollywood's popular "Fast & Furious" film franchise was killed Saturday afternoon in an auto accident in Valencia, when a car in which he was a passenger lost control, hit a tree and concrete utility pole, and burst into flames.

    Walker had been attending a charity event that afternoon for the victims of Typhoon Haiyan, and as the event wound down, he joined his friend, Roger Rodas, in taking a 2005 Porsche out for a spin. Rodas, who was driving, also died in the crash. L.A. County Sheriff's Dept. investigators believe that speed was a probable cause in the accident.

    Walker's final completed film, "Hours," which is set in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina, is due in theatres in a couple of weeks. He was in the midst of filming the seventh installment of "Fast & Furious" when he was killed, and it's unknown how his death will impact production in Atlanta.

    Our condolences to his family and friends.

    Some good advice... (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 01:26:58 PM EST
    for Millenials from Gen X...You're Partying All Wrong.  

    Took the thoughts right outta my head.

    This piece of news (1.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 08:53:26 PM EST
    is not going to go down well here.

    Some words do not play well here. Words like Amazon, drones, etc. And now you have this.

    Another way to make human employees (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:03:37 AM EST
    redundant, and slash the delivery workforce in order to make a buck. But, of course, we've already been over this territory, haven't we?

    Parent
    And, I respond, knowing full well (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:04:31 AM EST
    that you are deliberately trolling. Have at it.

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by lentinel on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 06:26:12 AM EST
    predict that the news that Amazon is considering using drones to deliver packages is "not going to go down well" on this site.

    I guess you anticipate a poor reception because many here have expressed dismay at the carnage meted out by use of drones by the Obama administration upon the hapless citizens of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    But, as is often your wont, you neglect to offer your own opinion about the subject at hand.

    So, Monsieur, how is the proposed use of drones by Amazon going down with you?

    Parent

    Good (none / 0) (#37)
    by Politalkix on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 06:59:07 AM EST
    Because
    (1) No Sunday deliveries for USPS which all of you seem to be against.
    (2) May spur FedEx and UPS spending on improved last mile delivery. They may also use drone technology or spend more on delivery vehicles and hire more people. All good for the economy.

    Parent
    Wha? (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by lentinel on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 03:59:48 PM EST
    No Sunday deliveries for USPS which all of you seem to be against.

    And you know that all of us seem to be against Sunday deliveries by the Post Office how?

    Personally, I would welcome Sunday deliveries.

    I also would find that drones flitting around might pose a bit of a problem - guidance being slightly off and running into folks - or other drones for example.

    I would prefer the USPS or a person on a bicycle to a drone any day of the week.

    Parent

    Talk to shoephone (none / 0) (#79)
    by Politalkix on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 05:19:50 PM EST
    about USPS Sunday deliveries.
    You may opt for drones after you get hit with her verbal missiles.

    Parent
    I like (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by lentinel on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 06:00:17 PM EST
    Shoephone.

    I don't like drones.

    No contest.

    Parent

    Yeah, I can't think of much better than (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Anne on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:02:19 AM EST
    the skies filled with drones, buzzing about delivering products, spying on our activity, and being used to do God knows what else, for God knows what reason.  "Fire up the drone, Betty - I want to see what the kids are really up to!"  "Mom, I forgot my lunch - can you send the drone to deliver it?"  

    And, as shoephone rightly points out, it's just another way to eliminate jobs - just like the proliferation of self-service check-outs that don't require a cashier or bagger.  And I can pretty much guarantee that whatever economic benefits Amazon might realize from the use of drone technology won't be accruing to the benefit of its employees.


    Parent

    Not to mention, (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by shoephone on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:04:52 PM EST
    You can't show noblesse oblige and tip the drone for delivery on the weekend!

    Parent
    You can legally tip the drone (5.00 / 3) (#56)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 12:43:34 PM EST
    the same dollar amount as you can a postal worker (h/t Yman).

    OTOH, the drone will not be able to enjoy Mrs. Zorba's "home-baked goods or a jar of home-made jam or pickles."

    Parent

    OTOH, Mme. Zorba can now ... (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 01:23:46 PM EST
    ...  get her own drone, and send it out on deliveries! Lord knows, Mr. Zorba would probably appreciate the upgrade in technology.

    Parent
    Nonsense... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 02:22:12 PM EST
    what kinda animal doesn't take care of their mailman/woman at Christmas?  Same goes for the garbage man/woman.

    Parent
    It will spur economic activity (none / 0) (#82)
    by Politalkix on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 06:38:06 PM EST
    Jeff Bezos and Amazon invest the profits Amazon makes. Bezos likes long term investment projects and is not like most other company CEOs who focus only on maximizing profits in the short term. Amazon builds a lot of warehouses and invests in new technology. I got your point about the less than ideal working conditions of workers in these warehouses; however warehouse workers are not the only kind of employees that Amazon hires. Amazon employs lots of software and hardware engineers, scientists, technicians, etc. Those jobs pay good salaries and benefits. Even warehouse construction, generates jobs for construction workers, electricians, etc. How are warehouse constructions jobs worse than road construction jobs created with federal stimulus funding?

    Amazon also invests a lot of money funding research in Universities and STEM education. Jeff Bezos is even a founder of a commercial space startup company, Blue Origin. Amazon is therefore a very progressive company as far as I am concerned.

    Parcel delivery using drones may also ignite more investment from parcel delivery companies like UPS, FedEx, etc. If Amazon minimizes delivery time, competitors may have to follow suit. Walmart may also hire more delivery people who can deliver on bikes from their warehouses. A continuous push for faster delivery times can create more demand for investment in our ageing transportation infrastructure.

    All of this may happen or it may not. However, there is a possibility that it can induce a spurt in economic activity that can create jobs for people in all kinds of occupations-engineers, construction workers, transportation lawyers ( even a category called "drone chasers" among injury lawyers may just open up).


    Parent

    Overnight delivery is not good enough (none / 0) (#88)
    by Politalkix on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:01:10 PM EST
    link

    From the LA Times.

    Parent

    Allow me to add this.... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by unitron on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:59:13 PM EST
       allegedly from amazon.co.uk

    (but of course not really)

    ...to the conversation.

    I think you'll find it entertaining.

    Parent

    Where society is headed (none / 0) (#29)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 09:55:06 PM EST
    A guy killed himself... (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:44:24 AM EST
    not too long ago in NYC playing with his drone...slit his own throat.  Like the man in your link say...

    "The other 20 percent is that it could go crashing into the bride's mother's face," the Bethesda ­cinematographer somewhat jokingly told his brother.

    I think the liability alone would prevent Amazon from actually going through with drone delivery...it would only be a matter of time till somebody got killed or seriously injured.

    Either way, I'm sticking with the mailman.  Though it might be fun to get something delivered via drone to smash the drone a la "Player Piano". otoh, knowing corporate America, delivery drones will probably be strapped to prevent theft or something.

    Parent

    A few dead people (peons) against (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:28:14 AM EST
    maximizing profits. No contest. I'm sure that there will be some legislation loophole enacted to make sure that this "technology" is protected. from any liability much like tar sands.

    Parent
    James Ball over at (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:53:12 AM EST
    Common Dreams agrees with you and is of the opinion that this was a PR stunt by Jeff Bezos "winning his company positive publicity just ahead of what is usually the biggest online shopping day of the year, the dreadfully named Cyber Monday."

    Regardless of the outcome, I got a good chuckle when envisioning this scenario:

    And what happens when next door's kid decides to shoot the drone with his BB rifle?

    Also what happens if more towns decide to raise funds by issuing hunting permits that would give residents licenses to "kill" drones ... by shooting them out of the air. {snark}

    Parent

    I'm still recovering from the Iron Bowl (none / 0) (#1)
    by Dadler on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 09:35:21 AM EST
    Unreal. And I'm a dork from southern cali, whose biggest football moment before this was attending the USC/UCLA game in the mid-70s, and watching little Pat Haden rip it up. Well, that or watching my LA Rams lose to the Steelers in Superbowl XIV in 1980, at the Rose Bowl no less, with an injured Pat Haden replaced by Vince Ferragamo. What are the chances that the one time your childhood team gets to the Super Bowl, that they essentially are playing a home game? If only they'd won. But at least we had the highest attendance in Super Bowl history at the game, 103,985. I doubt this number will be topped again soon. Go Niners! And Chargers! And phuck St. Louis, who took my team!

    Super Bowl XIV highlights (link).

    You can have (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Zorba on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 01:16:44 PM EST
    the Rams back, if you want, D. They're not my team, after all.  They are Johnny-come-latelies, as it were.
    Even the old St. Louis Cardinals football team didn't arrive there from Chicago until I was in junior high school, so I never really was all that interested in them, either.
    By golly, if a team was not there when I was born, then the heck with them!
    And you kids, get off my lawn!      ;-)

    Parent
    I'm just short in the gums (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Dadler on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 03:23:47 PM EST
    ;-)

    Parent
    Iron Bowl was good (none / 0) (#7)
    by ragebot on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 10:47:32 AM EST
    but I enjoyed the Immaculate Deflection last week more.

    Immaculate Deflection

    Parent

    I think it's their year (none / 0) (#9)
    by Dadler on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 11:54:52 AM EST
    Ahem.

    Parent
    Auburn.... (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by desertswine on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 12:30:32 PM EST
    has obviously sold their souls to the Haitians, or some such.

    Parent
    You'll like this one, Dadler: (none / 0) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 02:23:15 PM EST
    Various real-time reactions from fans to the final 0:01 of the Iron Bowl.

    Parent
    2016: Early rumblings in Democratic Party (none / 0) (#3)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 09:45:53 AM EST
    Two articles of interest.

    link

    link

    Interesting analysis (none / 0) (#6)
    by ragebot on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 10:44:42 AM EST
    of the need to reform Wall Street with new regulations.

    Maybe some of the liberals like Warren could take a lesson from libertarians and instead of more rules try fewer but better rules.  My plan would be composed of two basic rules.

    First you can not buy any stock or proxy stocks like CDFs ect unless you have all the money needed to pay for them; no buying on margin.  This would greatly reduce speculation, maybe even eliminate it.

    Second I would deal with the problem of high frequency trading which accounts for more than 85% of all stock trading (the practice of quickly buying and selling stocks micro seconds after a stock moves up or down) by forcing buyers to keep stocks say an hour after it was bought before it could be sold.  I would really have no problem with going back to the old system where paper stock certificates were used.

    As long as the congress passes bills that are thousands of pages long with detailed fine print there will be white shoe law firms that will find loopholes in the fine print.  A short simple bill with no loopholes would be much more effective.

    Parent

    Great. Care to write it? (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 04:46:24 PM EST
    Speaking as someone who did this for a living for the better part of 20 years, drafting effective legislation isn't nearly as simple as you seem to think.

    Loopholes are much more likely to occur when a law is overgeneralized, which tends to invite litigation from an aggrieved party seeking an exception to the rule. When you want a given law to mean exactly what you say, it has to say specifically what you mean. The devil's always in the details.

    Texas had a great overarching campaign finance law on the books for over a century. It was short and simple: Corporations cannot donate money to political campaigns, period. Guess what happened to it over the last few years?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    How is a prohibition (none / 0) (#17)
    by ragebot on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 05:00:40 PM EST
    an over generalization.

    Get rid of margin buying instead of saying you need to have x amount of funds in y type of account for z amount of time.

    The purpose of the stock market, in my mind, is to raise funds for a business to use for expansion.  Instead it has turned into a place to gamble.  But unlike Las Vegas where you have to have to have the total amount of your bet before you can place a bet on Wall Street you only need 1/10 of the money you want to bet.

    So the wording of my bill would be along the lines of 'stocks can only be bought with cash'.

    Same goes for the law to end high frequency trading.  If you buy a stock you have to hold it for a certain period of time before you can sell it.

    Parent

    How is it an over generalization? (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by sj on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 08:05:05 PM EST
    When drafting a bill one of the many things to consider is how your measure would affect other parts of the legal code. You have to identify those other statutes and specify how they would be amended for consistency. And then analyze your modifications to see if there are even more statutes that would be affected. Then your bill would be made available for other legislators to offer amendments. Which, if adopted, must be reconciled into the measure.

    Bill drafting is not an easy process.

    Parent

    I'm not saying that your proposal ... (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 02:01:09 AM EST
    ... for reform is a bad idea, because it's really not. All I'm saying is that writing and enacting law is a very involved and complicated process. Just as human beings are highly complex and multi-faceted creatures, so are the legal codes that govern us.

    Like its opposite number communism, libertarianism sounds appealing on a purely intellectual level, yet as working concepts, both fail to take into account actual human behavior, particularly when it comes to our desire and / or willingness to act in our own self-interest. We can be greedy, aggressive, bigoted, vain, petty, mercenary, selfish, completely impervious to reason and totally self-absorbed, whenever we perceive it in our best interests to be such.

    And that's why the evolution of the law tends toward complexity, rather than simplification. Because at one point or another in our lives, we will all see ourselves as an exception to one rule or another, and we would wish that to be taken into account, so that we might not be penalized or punished due to our unique and particular circumstance.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Oh, and by the way (none / 0) (#30)
    by sj on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 10:28:23 PM EST
    Define "cash"
    So the wording of my bill would be along the lines of 'stocks can only be bought with cash'.
    And if you're sticking with cash, define how it would be transferred.

    I haven't drafted legislation. I wouldn't want to, so hats off to Donald, but I have worked in IT at State Legislatures and have seen a great deal, and I've worked on Bill Drafting systems.

    But anyone can take on drafting a bill, then "all" you would have to do is find someone to sponsor it. You might find the effort interesting, and if it's something you're serious about then you might want to try it. I say that partly tongue in cheek simply because it is not something that I would want to do and therefore wouldn't do it well.

    Parent

    My mistake (none / 0) (#31)
    by ragebot on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 10:53:13 PM EST
    I am not sure this would require a bill or even legislative action.

    More likely the SEC has the power to make rules that cover how much money has to be in a money market account with a broker to leverage a stock sale.

    Same thing goes for having to deliver a stock certificate to complete a sale and prohibiting the sale of a stock before the stock certificate is delivered.

    You guys sound like those obstructionist Republicans I keep hearing about.

    Parent

    I don't know if it would require (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by sj on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 11:11:13 PM EST
    legislative action either. That's a good question.
    You guys sound like those obstructionist Republicans I keep hearing about.
    Here's the thing. Legislating is serious business. And the trouble is, too many of those "obstructionist Republicans" didn't get elected to do their job as legislators. They got elected to be obstructionist. They got in business of government because they think "government" is the problem. How well can you do your job when you are opposed to everything about it?

    Of course, since they view their job as being obstructionist, I suppose they think their problem is that they can't obstruct everything they want to.

    Parent

    I thought... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:01:02 AM EST
    legislation was so verbose to include loopholes requested by lobbyists, not to prevent them.

    Or to piggy-back a buncha unrelated bullsh*t that would never pass on its own.

    Or to keep the public confused and in the dark.

    Parent

    It actually works both ways, kdog. (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 11:10:19 AM EST
    Basically, we write to plug one loophole, and then someone amends the same law to create another. To use the tired cliché, it's the political and legislative equivalent of whack-a-mole.

    Parent
    How about (none / 0) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:06:00 AM EST
    All of the above.

    Which just happens to be the only legislation that get passed.

    Parent

    We actually have a law out here ... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 02:05:18 PM EST
    ... that requires the contents of a given legislative bill to be germane to its title, which means that if its title is "Relating to Public Health," then its contents must correspond, and not include extraneous and unrelated topics like land use or tax exemptions. Further, a bill on Third or Final Reading must sit in its final form for no less than 48 hours before it is brought to the floor for a final vote.

    This allows both lawmakers and the general public at least two business days to review bills in their final form, and also has had the effect of discouraging the last-minute attachment of riders, because any successful attempt to amend a bill on Final Reading in either the House or the Senate will effectively kill it.

    If riders are a problem in your state legislature, you might want to suggest to your lawmakers that they look to Hawaii law to resolve the problem, because it really does mitigate the likelihood of any last-second surprises being sprung by legislators trying to pull a fast one over on people.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The real Camelot (none / 0) (#4)
    by Politalkix on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 10:23:26 AM EST
    and when the wizard was a politician. link


    Lost of shockers yesterday (none / 0) (#5)
    by ragebot on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 10:25:48 AM EST
    PSU took out what was suppose to be a good WIS team, biggest shock to me.  Not to say there were not a lot of other upsets and close games that did not go the way I would have guessed.  But all in all it was a good day with lots of games that were fun to watch if you are a football fan.

    FSU/Duke (none / 0) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 11:43:14 AM EST
    Vegas line opens at FSU -27.5, and in ten minutes climbs to 28.5

    Hmmm. Interesting. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 04:27:54 PM EST
    Hardly surprising, though. Las Vegas is nothing, if not all about the flavor of the week, what's cool and what's now.

    Personally, I expect FSU to simply roll over Duke and move on. But this Blue Devil team has certainly defied expectations thus far, and if the Seminoles are caught looking ahead and get sloppy, it could be interesting.

    What's the line on Stanford at Arizona State in the Pac-12 championship game? I'm liking the Sun Devils in that rematch, for some reason. They've greatly impressed me these past few weeks.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You seem to know all about this stuff (none / 0) (#80)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 05:58:19 PM EST
    What exactly is 71/2 (spread Rams vs 49ers)?

    If the spread (plus or minus) is 35.5 why isn't it stated that way instead of 71/2?

    Parent

    Okay Here ya go (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by CoralGables on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 07:19:13 PM EST
    The line on the Rams/49ers game was Rams +7.5 (or 49ers -7.5)

    If you were betting the Rams, the Rams (amd you) start the game with a 7.5 point lead.

    If you were betting the 49ers, you are losing by 7.5 before the game starts.

    At games end, if you bet the Rams, add 7.5 to their score and if they win with that total you win. If you bet the 49ers, subtract 7.5 points from their total.

    The final score was SF 23 Rams 13. In this case, betting the 49ers  -7.5 was a winner (15 1/2 to 13). Betting on the Rams with +7.5 was a loser (23 to 20 1/2)

    If that's confusing I'll try again.

    Parent

    Thanks CG (none / 0) (#84)
    by sj on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 07:22:49 PM EST
    That was a really clear explanation. Not that this is knowledge I need, but still, a really clear explanation. :)

    Parent
    No not confusing at all (none / 0) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:49:24 PM EST
    Your explanation was very clear.

    In most cases, I understand how a spread works. I just read the spread wrong. My old eyes saw it as 71 divided by 2 (71/2 instead of 7 1/2) and I thought "What the he!! is that. Thanks for clarifying it for me because the light bulb never turned on until you typed it 7.5.

    One of those oh dopey me moments.

    Parent

    Site violator! (none / 0) (#22)
    by Zorba on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 07:52:45 PM EST
    Spam.

    Site violator! (none / 0) (#23)
    by Zorba on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 07:53:21 PM EST
    Again, spam.

    SITE VIOLATION - SPAM (none / 0) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 08:32:36 PM EST


    how 'bout them Iggles? (none / 0) (#27)
    by womanwarrior on Sun Dec 01, 2013 at 08:43:26 PM EST
    Never pretty, but hey, a win.  

    Supreme Court has turned away (none / 0) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:11:00 AM EST
    Liberty University's challenge to the portion of the health insurance law that requires most employers to provide health insurance to their workers or pay a fine.

    The justices did not comment Monday in leaving in place a federal appeals court ruling dismissing Liberty University's lawsuit. link


    You forgot (none / 0) (#73)
    by MKS on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 02:52:22 PM EST
    nihilistic anarchists who only seek to destroy.

    Geez... (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by sj on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 03:18:10 PM EST
    Give a guy one philosophy class and apparently he's good to go for a lifetime.

    Seriously, I think it's too bad Nietzsche had never heard of clinical depression. I don't see how else one could spend that much time pondering and elaborating on the idea that "all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated" whether or not he embraced the concept. All I can say is he depressed me big-time. I can't even see the word without feeling nauseous, so there's one for your toolkit.

    The two things are now irrevocably connected in my mind. Show me someone talking about nihilism and I see someone suffering from depression.

    Parent

    Well, it's official: (none / 0) (#85)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:19:00 PM EST
    USC -- that fabled football colossus of the west coast, a program that uses Heisman Trophies for doorstops and conference trophies as paperweights -- just hired the guy whose five-year head-coaching record at another highly respected school was exactly 34-29. Way to go.

    Meanwhile, up north, 18-year-old Washington Huskies freshman QB Troy Williams -- who was recruited by now-former Huskies head coach Steve Sarkisian only eight months ago -- tweeted his displeasure with his coach's decision to bolt UW for USC:

    "Don't ever commit cus of a coach. Faker than a 3 dollar bill."

    Out of the mouths of babes.

    The person I truly feel horrible for is now-former USC interim head coach Ed Orgeron, who earned the right to the serious consideration he obviously never received for the job, based upon his sterling leadership under difficult circumstances these past few months. And after all he did to salvage this season from what otherwise looked to be an imminent train wreck, Coach Orgeron deserved far better from USC AD Pat Haden than this, a knee-jerk reaction to a disappointing loss at the hands of a better UCLA team.

    To make matters worse, Orgeron apparently first learned about the decision from the L.A. media, and not from Haden himself. Rather than accept Haden's subsequent offer to serve as the Trojans' "Associate Head Coach" under Steve Sarkisian, he abruptly resigned from the job and vacated his office, leaving the Trojans now rudderless as they prepare for an upcoming bowl game.

    Quite obviously, the good folks at USC have done yeoman's work this day to live up to their school's derisive monicker, "The University of Spoiled Children." Simply put, this was a terribly shabby move by both an institution which feels itself entitled, and a self-centered coach on the make. Shame on you, Pat Haden and all involved.

    Well, now that USC has shown their true colors, they clearly don't deserve Ed Orgeron. And I wish Coach O all the best as he moves forward with his life. I hear there's a current coaching vacancy in Seattle.

    Enjoy the .500 ball and seven-win seasons to come, Trojan Nation. You deserve it.

    Aloha.

    Pat Haden is a fool. First Kiffen, now Sarkisian? (none / 0) (#87)
    by caseyOR on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:57:49 PM EST
    And good on Orgeron for getting out of Dodge. USC doesn't deserve him. He performed a f@cking miracle with the team after Kiffen's dismissal. He deserved to be treated with respect.

    I would love to see Orgeron land with another Pac-12 team and kick USC's collective @ss all over the football field next season.

    Parent

    Agreed. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 01:56:29 PM EST
    I'm definitely not a USC fan, but I was nevertheless very impressed with the tremendous job Coach Orgeron did under difficult circumstances. He played the lousy hand which he was dealt very well, took over on short notice a team in turmoil that was clearly going nowhere, and somehow got them to believe in themselves. He parlayed that into a respectable 9-4 record, which is about four more wins than Pat Haden and the USC administration had any right to expect, given the situation which they -- and not Ed Orgeron -- had created for themselves.

    Haden not only let Coach Orgeron learn about Steve Sarkisian's hiring from a media phone query, he then offered the appalling excuse that because he was unable to beat SC's crosstown rivals, what was an obviously superior UCLA team, the school had to therefore look elsewhere. I don't know how you could call that anything other than a lack of class, character and good breeding. The ungrateful but privileged and entitled folks at University Park are obviously living in their own private Idaho. One must now trust karma to give them what they so richly deserve.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Former Trojan AD Mike Garrett did. And in Haden's first year after taking over from the disgraced Garrett, Kiffen's Trojans did finish 11-2, so he could hardly have canned the guy then.

    Parent
    There is a song (none / 0) (#86)
    by Edger on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 08:49:48 PM EST
    released in 1977 on the seventh studio album "Islands" by The Band, with some rather interesting lyrics...
    There's a legend of a lady on the mountain
    Lives alone beyond the Mecca plain
    And with her hands she makes it through the winter
    She never goes against the grain

    To be someone is to be someone alone
    To be someone is known as solitude
    To learn to sing below the surface
    You must adjust your altitude

    [...snip...]
    Break the news, the Pepote Rouge is coming to town
    We stand accused, Pepote Rouge, of bein' hell bound
    She can help us find our way and get across
    You don't know what you gained, till you find out what you lost

    The Pepote Rouge come down from the mountain
    And lead our people into the light of day
    For they are lost and know not where they're goin'
    And all their leaders are cast in clay

    Now disbelief and mass confusion
    Spreading wild across the land
    You can call it love or call it wisdom
    To be not savin' a drowning man

    Break the news, the Pepote Rouge is coming to town
    We stand accused, Pepote Rouge, of bein' hell bound
    She can show us just where we went wrong
    You don't know where you're goin', till you find where you belong

    The Band - The Saga of Pepote Rouge

    The Band backed up Dylan (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by ragebot on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 09:50:41 PM EST
    till they went out on their own.  Garth Hudson played keyboards and was classically trained.  None of the other band members had musical training and Garth was paid a pittance of ten dollars a week to teach them music theory.

    I remember many of their songs including this one.  There are too many good Band songs to pick one, but if I had to choose it would be

    The Weight

    I pulled into Nazareth, was feelin' about half past dead
     I just need some place where I can lay my head
     "Hey, mister, can you tell me where a man might find a bed?"
     He just grinned and shook my hand, "no" was all he said

     Take a load off, Fanny
     Take a load for free
     Take a load off, Fanny
     And (and) (and) you put the load right on me
     (You put the load right on me)

     I picked up my bag, I went lookin' for a place to hide
     When I saw Carmen and the Devil walkin' side by side
     I said, "Hey, Carmen, come on let's go downtown"
     She said, "I gotta go but my friend can stick around"

     Take a load off, Fanny
     Take a load for free
     Take a load off, Fanny
     And (and) (and) you put the load right on me
     (You put the load right on me)

     Go down, Miss Moses, there's nothin' you can say
     It's just ol' Luke and Luke's waitin' on the Judgment Day
     "Well, Luke, my friend, what about young Anna Lee?"
     He said, "Do me a favor, son, won't you stay and keep Anna Lee company?"

     Take a load off, Fanny
     Take a load for free
     Take a load off, Fanny
     And (and) (and) you put the load right on me
     (You put the load right on me)

     Crazy Chester followed me and he caught me in the fog
     He said, "I will fix your rack if you'll take Jack, my dog"
     I said, "Wait a minute, Chester, you know I'm a peaceful man"
     He said, "That's okay, boy, won't you feed him when you can"

     Yeah, take a load off, Fanny
     Take a load for free
     Take a load off, Fanny
     And (and) (and) you put the load right on me
     (You put the load right on me)

     Catch a cannon ball now to take me down the line
     My bag is sinkin' low and I do believe it's time
     To get back to Miss Fanny, you know she's the only one
     Who sent me here with her regards for everyone

     Take a load off, Fanny
     Take a load for free
     Take a load off, Fanny
     And (and) (and) you put the load right on me
     (You put the load right on me)  


    Parent

    The Band... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 12:21:50 PM EST
    backed up Ronnie "The Hawk" Hawkins first, then did their own thing as "Levon and The Hawks" and "The Canadian Squires", before they hooked up with Bob Dylan and became "The Band".  And the rest is (some of the best) music history.  We miss you Richard, Rick, and Levon!

    And yes...too many amazing tracks to pick just one;)  

    Parent

    dog (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 12:49:00 PM EST
    did you ever read Levon's book? It's amazing any of those guys made it to thirty. There was more white powder flying around the music biz in the seventies and eighties than there is at the Winter Olympics.

    Parent
    I have... (none / 0) (#104)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 01:25:12 PM EST
    great stuff. Forget the blow and smack, the f8cking boozing...Richard Manuel living in the L.A. poolhouse half-buried in empty bottles of Canadian Club.

    I've never shaken the image of a on his last leg Sonny Boy Williamson jamming with young Levon on his porch, with a spitton full of blood by his side.  

    Parent

    The band (none / 0) (#108)
    by ragebot on Tue Dec 03, 2013 at 05:44:16 PM EST
    that backed up so many groups that this was the origin of the name "The Band".

    So much good music from a time when there was a lot of good music.

    Parent

    I'm thinking it would take a maximum of 10 (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Mon Dec 02, 2013 at 10:53:27 PM EST
    minutes to instruct a rock musian re music theory.  

    Parent
    please don't reprint articles or (none / 0) (#109)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Dec 04, 2013 at 04:28:48 PM EST
    entire song lyrics in comments. Too much bandwidth and scrolling. Just post a few lines and link to the rest. thanks

    Parent