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Monday Open Thread

Here's an open thread to discuss Supreme Court rulings and whatever else you find of interest today.

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    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 46 (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:07:14 PM EST
    Run, Edward, run!! (link)

    Gray and rainy and kinda humid on the SF peninsula today. As a friend of mine said recently, the new SF summer slogan should be "Smile, winter is coming!"

    Me thinks... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:16:52 PM EST
    I.M. Boolsheet wears many hats in this administration, not just National Insecurity Czar;)

    Parent
    kdog (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:36:15 PM EST
    I've discovered why the Spurs were unable to stop LeBron in Game 7.

    There were just too many of him to stop

    Parent

    LOL... (none / 0) (#13)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:44:23 PM EST
    It probably does feel that way trying to defend him.

    Parent
    Wears the many asshats, that is (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:02:38 PM EST
    No if or ands with those jerks, only butts.

    Parent
    Hahahahahaha! (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Zorba on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:12:03 PM EST
    "I. M. Boolsheet!"  LOL!

    Parent
    But it sounds like ... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 04:42:52 PM EST
    ... the coyotes are lovin' life in San Francisco.

    Parent
    The image of a lone coyote... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Dadler on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 07:46:26 PM EST
    ...trotting across the Golden Gate Bridge in the middle of the night, make a great painting.  

    Parent
    June 24, 2013 (5.00 / 4) (#25)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:30:31 PM EST
    President Barack Obama said on Monday that his government is following all legal channels in the case of former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden charged with disclosing secret U.S. surveillance programs, and said he is working with other countries to ensure the rule of law is observed.

    Voice of Russia

    June 7, 2013

    The FISA (aka FISC) court found that the PRISM program was unconstitutional but the decision was kept secret and the Obama administration just went ahead with the program anyway. . .

    In a rare public filing in the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC), the Justice Department today urged continued secrecy for a 2011 FISC opinion that found the National Security Agency's surveillance under the FISA Amendments Act to be unconstitutional. Significantly, the surveillance at issue was carried out under the same controversial legal authority that underlies the NSA's recently-revealed PRISM program.

    EFF filed a suit under the Freedom of Information Act in August 2012, seeking disclosure of the FISC ruling. Sens. Ron Wyden and Mark Udall revealed the existence of the opinion, which found that collection activities under FISA Section 702 "circumvented the spirit of the law" and violated the Fourth Amendment's prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures. But, at the time, the Senators were not permitted to discuss the details publicly. Section 702 has taken on new importance this week, as it appears to form the basis for the extensive PRISM surveillance program reported recently in the Guardian and the Washington Post.

    Voice of Electronic Frontier Foundation




    Additional info (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 04:36:45 PM EST
    Last year, the FISA court said the minimization rules were unconstitutional, and on Wednesday, ruled that it had no objection to sharing that opinion publicly. It is now up to a federal court. NYT

    IMO, if Congress cannot discuss it's findings that the program they are supposed to have oversight over has been ruled unconstitutional, they have no real oversight powers at all. If the FISA can rule a process unconstitutional and that ruling is ignored by the government, the court is completely without any power. No real court or Congressional oversight at all.  

    Parent

    Law schmaw. (5.00 / 3) (#62)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 06:05:13 PM EST
    Just think how horrible it would be if a republican had been elected last year and was doing this stuff.

    Republicans are amateurs. Obama is a true professional at fascism. No republican would have a hope in hell of getting away with this.

    Thank god for lesser evils.

    It would be horrible if a republican had been elected and was doing what Obama is doing. Obama supporters would have to spend 4 years shrieking for impeachment and pretending to be opposed to this kind of thing, and that would be unbearable.

    Parent

    Al Franken is a facist too (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 08:02:43 AM EST
    then according to you.  Why can't you accept that others have a different view of things than you.  You can argue about a policy without name calling.  Obama isn't a facist.  And with all the crazy anti-women crap the House is putting forth, their crazy abortion stance,  and the crazy anti-immigrant frenzy by the Republicans - I am so thankful a Republican isn't in the White House.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 5) (#84)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 08:52:37 AM EST
    This is really great. Have we really descended to the point where we are negotiating which freedoms we are willing to trade away so that we can maybe perhaps keep another freedom from being completely eliminating for a while longer? Is it a two for one deal or ten for one deal, where if we are allowed to keep a very limited right to abortion in some states, the government can take away two or ten other rights?

    Maybe you need to practice what you preach and accept that others have a different view of things than you and would prefer that you did not agree to trade our rights away without our consent.

    Personally, I do not want to lose any of my rights. Thank you very much.

    Parent

    And OTHERS think (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by IndiDemGirl on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:56:40 AM EST
    differently than you.  I am practicing what I preach. I'm not calling people ridiculous names. I don't think the government should be able to take away any rights.

    Obama is not a facist; Franken is not a facist.  I disagree with them on this issue, but that doesn't make them facists and a Republican as President would not be the same.  

    Parent

    Well I don't believe that (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:14:44 PM EST
    for the most part those of us who are protesting what we believe is unconstitutional activity by our government are pining away for a Republican president. IIRC many of us protested loudly when a Republican president broke the law and ignored our Constitutional rights and see no reason to quietly accept a Democratic president taking similar action on the premise that a Republican president is worse.

    IMO. accepting a Democratic president's spying activities, attempts to intimidate whistle blowers and members of the press and establishing a spy on your fellow workers program, will in some time in the not so distant future guarantee another president (possibly a Republican)will do worse.  

    Parent

    Do you know what fascism is? (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:17:17 PM EST
    Or how it would be identified?

    Serious questions.

    There was a list circulated some time ago, that was attributed to a "Dr. Lawrence Britt" that you might want to give a look-see.

    [Apparently, there is a "Lawrence Britt," but he isn't a doctor, but leave that aside for a moment and just look the list over]

    It's tempting to think that because we aren't Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy, that because we call this a democracy, that we have elections and all that other good stuff, we couldn't possibly have anything in common with fascism.

    Well, look this over and see what you think; maybe you wouldn't define "fascism" in this way, using these characteristics, which is fine - but if that's the case, maybe you could share how you would define it.

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    1. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    2. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    3. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    4. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

    5. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    6. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    7. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

    8. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    9. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

    10. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

    11. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    12. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    13. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

    Food for thought, anyway.

    I have to ask, as I do from time to time, at what point do we stop lowering the bar to the standard of how bad the other guys are, and start demanding that those who are supposed to be on the good side of all of this raise the quality of their representation and improve the level of discourse?  Things get worse and worse not because they can't get better, but because we keep lowering the standard.

    Parent

    Senators Ron Wyden and Mark Udal (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 10:29:14 PM EST
    NSA must correct inaccurate claims over privacy protections.

    Two senators on the intelligence committee on Monday accused the National Security Agency of publicly presenting "inaccurate" information about the privacy protections on its surveillance on millions of internet communications.
    ...
    We were disappointed to see that this factsheet contains an inaccurate statement about how the section 702 authority has been interpreted by the US government," Wyden and Udall wrote to Alexander, in a letter dated 24 June and acquired by the Guardian.

    "In our judgment, this inaccuracy is significant, as it portrays protections for Americans' privacy as being significantly stronger than they actually are," the senators write. Yet they specified the "inaccurate" statement only in "the classified attachment to this letter", which the Guardian did not acquire.

    Tom Caiazza, a spokesman for Wyden, said: "Unfortunately, we can't describe the inaccuracy in detail without divulging information that is currently classified. For now we can say that there is an inaccurate statement in the fact sheet publicly released and posted on the NSA website that portrays protections for Americans' privacy as being stronger than they are." link




    Parent
    Kafka handles the takeaway: (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:16:07 PM EST
    "Unfortunately, we can't describe the inaccuracy in detail without divulging information that is currently classified."

    Gotta laugh; any more tears on that tattered old Constitution and it will dissolve.

    Parent

    "Deconstructing the Beatles" (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by shoephone on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:29:22 PM EST
    If you are a Beatles fan and Scott Freiman happens to bring his show to your town, go see it. You won't be sorry.

    It's a mix of film, music, power point, and Beatles history you have not heard before. Freiman takes different periods of their career -- Early Beatles/Yeah, Yeah, Yeah (1963), Tomorrow Never Knows/Revolver (1966) and Looking Through a Glass Onion/The White Album (1968) and fills in with so much interesting information, much of it very funny, that you will feel like you are understanding the music for the first time. He has recording studio notes to draw from, and isolates each track so you can really hear everything that went into the recordings. And then he puts it all together and it has a lot more power once you know the details.

    As a musician and a huge Beatles fan, I found this invaluable. I saw last night's presentation of Tomorrow Never Knows at the Seattle Film Festival, and the theater was packed. I was lucky to get a seat.

    I don't (none / 0) (#63)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 06:14:03 PM EST
    know about them Beatles,

    but this album, now called "Body and Soul" has just been issued.

    Wes Montgomery.

    Long solos.
    Fabulous.

    Parent

    That sounds cool... (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 08:06:30 PM EST
    it's coming back east to Pleasantville...good looks.

    Parent
    Here's a song for you Mr K..... (none / 0) (#72)
    by vml68 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 09:13:26 PM EST
    Beth Hart - Am I the one

    and another one that I absolutely love.....
    Giving the late Etta James a run for her money. Did not think that was possible!

    Parent

    Hey stranger! (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:23:04 AM EST
    Beth Hart is no joke, she got fire in them pipes of hers.

    One good turn deserves another, turned on to The London Souls yet? "Yeah you're crazy but I Think I Like It"  

    Parent

    will Snowden give info to NK, Syria? (5.00 / 0) (#48)
    by observed on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:52:00 PM EST
    The latest news from Snowden is that he will be giving information about US spying to journalists from each country  which was spied on by the US, and leave it up to those journalists to determine if the contents should be published.

    A couple of observations about this.

    First, this looks like indiscriminate attention-getting behavior from Snowden. I don't see any justification for this, unless he wants to argue the US should not spy on any foreign nationals whatsoever.

    Second, could giving sensitive information to North Korea, for example, be treason? So far, I've been puzzled by the accusations of treason, since he hasn't worked at the behest of a foreign government. Of course, now that we know he joined Booz Allen to steal NSA secrets, one wonders if he had an employer.

    Finally, I've suspected for some time that the asymmetrical information battle (citizens vs. government) would not remain one-sided---i.e, that in time, citizens would match the governments' power to find secrets. Snowden shows this happening, although not in the way I expected.

    I don't know (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 08:04:13 PM EST
    if, "he joined Booz Allen to steal NSA secrets".

    I know he is reported to have said that by the South China Morning Post.

    Maybe he did say that. Maybe he did do that...

    But I am skeptical because it seems that every person who takes a position that is unfavorable to an administration position finds him or herself subject to character assassination and planted stories.

    I would like to hear him say it.
    He has done a voice interview with Glenn Greenwald. He did not say it there.

    I just don't know about the South China Morning Post.
    Maybe it's true, but I don't take these things at face value anymore.

    Parent

    D.C. BOLO alert canceled after (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by MO Blue on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:30:44 PM EST
    escapee was recaptured.

    Fun stuff.

    EFF Sues NSA, DOJ Over Secret Surveillance Program (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 08:27:12 PM EST

    The Electronic Frontier Foundation has filed a lawsuit over a ruling by the secretive Federal Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC). That ruling found parts of a classified Department of Justice (DOJ) surveillance program to be in violation of the Fourth Amendment. The court's decision only became public after a letter from the NSA to Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) mentioned it and EFF's lawsuit is designed to draw attention to the ruling and the government's behavior.

    The FISC ruled in EFF's favor the day after former government contractor Edward Snowden revealed the NSA's massive collection of phone records, making it the first known case in which a non-government entity has prevailed in such a case. DOJ has until July 1 to respond to EFF's request for information on the ruling.



    On "aiding and abetting" (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by shoephone on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:01:07 AM EST
    Digby really slices and dices through the b.s. on Greenwald supposedly "aiding and abetting" Snowden. And she expertly takes David Gregory (and his ilk) to task for being a sock puppet on behalf of the corporate-industrial complex instead of being...a journalist.

    Digby's on fire these days.

    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 47 (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 07:59:37 AM EST
    From what I gather (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:33:22 PM EST
    Wendy Davis (D) Texas State Legislature is in the midst of a 13 hour filibuster that will kill an anti-abortion bill in Texas. Believe she has to last until midnight Texas time.

    The GOP is seriously trying to stop her as being off topic and have tried and thus far failed.

    You can see her try to make it to the end here.

    Long discussion going on now (none / 0) (#166)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:39:22 PM EST
    Don't know if they are going to kill it here or not. If not, they are giving her a nice rest as she gets ready to go for another 2+ hours.

    Parent
    They killed it after 11 hours (none / 0) (#168)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:05:12 PM EST
    Not a happy crowd there

    Parent
    Crowd outside the gallery (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:23:49 PM EST
    These are the type (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:25:32 PM EST
    of filibusters we need in the US Senate. There are 120,000 watching it on youtube as they argue "Robert's Rules of Order", and the GOP is not coming off very good when you consider they are trying to stop a woman from speaking about women's rights.

    Parent
    High theatre in Texas... (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:35:54 PM EST
    Old [insert demographic details here] guys bitterly clinging to their last years in power.

    Parent
    Certainly worth the price of admission. (none / 0) (#179)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:51:33 PM EST
    This is now what you would call (none / 0) (#181)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:53:16 PM EST
    the gallery filibuster.

    Parent
    And trying to fix the time of the vote (none / 0) (#186)
    by nycstray on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 03:56:51 AM EST
    they really aren't well versed in how fast things spread via twitter, live blogs and live streams :)

    One feed had 182,000 following.

    Oh. and ol' Gov Perry is gonna have to call another special session . . .

    Parent

    The gallery erupts! (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:54:32 PM EST
    ""At what point must a female senator raise her hand or her voice to be recognized over the male colleagues in the room?"

    - Senator Leticia Van de Putte

    154,000 people watching.

    Parent

    What you may hear more of (none / 0) (#3)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:18:01 PM EST
    Snowden's admission that he took the job at Booz Allen specifically to steal NSA informatiom may justify raising the use of the term treason rather than just espionage.

    I suspect someday he will say he misspoke on this one.

    Well, I think it may justify ... (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:13:10 PM EST
    ... our asking why the NSA is entrusting national security issues with companies like Booz Allen Hamilton and Xe, if the mercurial likes of turncoat employee Edward Snowden are receiving national security clearance and represent our country's supposed first line of defense in the so-called "War on Terror."

    Because quite frankly and most unfortunately, Booz Allen proves that the term "U.S. national security" has become wholly synonymous with the term "cash cow."

    Parent

    Why do the work (5.00 / 4) (#74)
    by BackFromOhio on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 09:35:18 PM EST
    using government employees when you can add to the deficit by paying the private sector far more money to do the same tasks?

    Parent
    Not only... (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:57:12 AM EST
    ...are national security secrets being entrusted to private contractors, but apparently security clearance screening is being farmed out as well instead of being done by, say, the FBI.

    Getting the "keep costs down and profits up" mindset involved.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    Parent

    Strange how you brought up Xe (none / 0) (#130)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:52:28 PM EST
    Because for me, discovering that the intel partitions go to Booz Allen to disappear instead someone overseen by deputy secretaries and FISA courts smells like hiring thugs out of uniform to do the illegal stuff.

    That was one of things the Bush administration did, it hired guns to do illegal things that the UCMJ wouldn't allow.  And there was all sorts of deniability in that too.  It also ended up aiding the burning of Baghdad and the Sunni triangle to the ground.

    So, is that what is going on in intel now?  The NSA hires people to do the illegal things because the NSA uniforms have too much oversight?

    Can't believe the intel partitions go to a business to die and go away.  That is treasonous to each and every American.  People should be so flaming pissed they can't see straight, but mostly they are not.

    Parent

    For well-connected companies ,,, (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:32:49 PM EST
    ... such as Xe, the outsourcing of the national security state has been nothing short of a financial windfall.

    Parent
    And not as much pesky oversight (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:24:26 PM EST
    For our leaders looking to pass that buck for as long as it can be passed when caught doing violating stuff.

    Parent
    He is the new D.B. Cooper (none / 0) (#6)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:22:30 PM EST
    But I am not so sure it will wear well....

    Parent
    The man gotta catch him first... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:24:11 PM EST
    I would think the NSA/CIA/FBI/DHS/Pick your Surveillance State Acronym would appreciate that kinda deception, that's their bidness baby! ;)

    Parent
    If you watch Jon Stewart and/or Colbert Report, (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:38:22 PM EST
    please share their treatment of the reporters on that Aeroflot/Delta flight from Moscow to Havana. Many reporters, no Snowden and the plane doors closed.

    Parent
    Ask and you shall receive (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 08:57:57 AM EST
    Link to John Oliver on the Daily Show which includes a take on the reporters on that Aeroflot/Delta flight from Moscow to Havana.

    John Oliver: Snowden exposes the blindness of the all-seeing U.S. government

    Parent

    You and I and John Oliver (none / 0) (#89)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:28:45 AM EST
    haven't a clue whether the government knows where he is or not. All we know is the media doesn't know.

    Parent
    Thanks! Mini won't play the video but I'm (none / 0) (#155)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:26:37 PM EST
    certain my laptop will.

    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#134)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 01:14:39 PM EST
    I think he'll stick with it.  Think about it.  You know that intel is all partitioned off for the lower levels to protect everyone, but this guy knew via his exposure to the intel complex to go get a job with Booz Allen to make the partitions completely go away.

    The partitions should never disappear in a business.  It would only do so to avoid forms of existing government oversight.  That is another crime that I believe that Snowden is attempting to expose.

    Doesn't it bother you that a business has no partitions to our intel?  It bother the holy frick out of me, but I've been around people who work in intel who never imagined such a thing.  Discovering that Booz Allen Hamilton is a place where the partitions go to die was jaw dropping for many.  Who oversees Booz?  A CEO?  Does this remind you of the Bush administration hiring contract thugs and interrogators with guns to outrun the UCMJ and the Geneva Conventions? Because it sure does me.

    Parent

    "This is what happens Larry.... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:21:30 PM EST
    this is what happens when you try to f8ck Chinese factory workers in the arse."

    Wow... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:55:57 PM EST
    ...he dirt cheap labor force is keeping him locked in an office until they get treated like human beings, the horror.  Just another added benefit of American labor, they won't take you hostage.

    Fear not, he's moving the operation to the even more exploited India.

    Parent

    Yeah... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:04:51 PM EST
    I thought it was a point for re-insourcing jobs, cuz our workforce doesn't have balls that like, then I got to the part where they're moving to Mumbai.  

    Parent
    Check Out the Comments... (none / 0) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:42:53 AM EST
    ...HERE.

    No one has got any sympathy for this clown.

    Parent

    Hysterical... (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 01:11:12 PM EST
    Corporate America has lower approval ratings than Red China;)

    Ol' Chip might wanna think about moving to Mumbai with his factory when he's released..he might not be welcome in Coral Springs either.

    Parent

    SCOTUS: (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:21:49 PM EST
    So sayeth... (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:26:42 PM EST
    the Supreme Corporation of these United State.

    Parent
    Kdog, would you report a residential (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:40:48 PM EST
    burglary in progress?  [not your residence.]

    Parent
    I'd investigate myself... (none / 0) (#14)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:54:52 PM EST
    to make sure it is indeed a break-in and not somebody locked out of their own house, try to scare them off with yelling or a flashlight and/or sick the Notorious D.O.G. on 'em, and certainly notify the resident if it's a neighbor I know to let them call if they want...but I don't think property loss is enough to justify an exception to the never call 911 rule...it's just stuff, not life or death.  

    I'd imagine that you don't like that answer, but that's my take.  Under a different set of laws and/or law enforcement I might feel differently.

    Parent

    You are probably thinking of (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:57:59 PM EST
    the infamous Prof. Gates.

    Residential burglary isn't a mere property crime though.

    Parent

    If I knew someone was home... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:01:31 PM EST
    asleep or something like that, then it's gut check time for that elusive exception to my golden rule.

    Not just Gates but myself, I've broken into my own house too many times to count because I left without keys and my roomates locked me out....if somebody drops a dime on me breaking into my own house I'd be mighty pissed.

    Parent

    If You Would Report Yours... (none / 0) (#24)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:25:55 PM EST
    ...it would be pretty sad to stand on principle and not report the same occurrence to your neighbors abode.  And I would have a hard time believing you wouldn't report you own place being robbed.

    Parent
    Believe it brother... (none / 0) (#28)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:38:13 PM EST
    I did not report my residence being robbed when nobody was home...why pile misery on misery?

    When I was robbed by an invited guest of my boneheaded roomate I didn't report that either...I tried to get my cash back, failed, and got over it.

    Parent

    Why pile misery on misery? (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:37:47 PM EST
    That's a good question.  

    But what do you call it when the burglar/thief goes from inflicting misery on you to inflicting it on his next victim, and the one after that and the one after that?

    Isn't that "misery on misery," too?  

    Parent

    I see your point... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:43:59 PM EST
    a couple changes to the law I'd have no reason to fear police...but you're assuming the cops are gonna put much effort into catching a petty thief, and I think you're smarter than that.  What was it you said about bridges for sale in aisle 7? ;)

    Parent
    No, I'm not assuming that at all. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:55:34 PM EST
    When we had our cars broken into a couple years ago in our driveway/garage, the cops flat-out told us it was a lost cause.  But, when they steal - and attempt to use - your bank card, and have all your other ID in hand, filing a police report is SOP.  

    Which I know gives you all the more reason not to have a bank account or a bank card - but that's not really the point.

    We've actually, on occasion, gotten recorded calls from the local precinct warning us about a rash of burglaries in the area - I live out in the country, where we're more spread out - and to be smart about locking things up and being on the alert.

    Parent

    Being alert makes sense... (none / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:57:50 PM EST
    just don't be on George Zimmerman steroid alert, it's no way to live!

    Parent
    OT... (none / 0) (#52)
    by lentinel on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 04:24:31 PM EST
    but my car was broken into some years ago.
    I had left some clothes and other belonging in the trunk while moving from one apartment to another.

    A few days later, after I opened the trunk and saw that it had been emptied, I realized that I hadn't a clue what had been in there...

    Parent

    That Wasn't the Question... (none / 0) (#36)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    ...it was about observing someone in the process of a robbing a residence, which is what my comment was about, observing someone breaking into you residence.

    I had my car broken into and didn't report it once, which came back to bite me because insurance wants a police report.  I agree, unless they catch them in the act, the cops ain't going catch them.  But for most people, that police report is 100x more important the cops pursuing the crime.

    What really sucks, in Houston that report costs $12 and you have to pick it up at the station.

    Parent

    Oops, misunderstood... (none / 0) (#38)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:17:24 PM EST
    The joys of not owning much of monetary value and renting, no need for insurance.

    Why would I report my house in the act of being robbed?  If I'm there, the house ain't being robbed or I have a gun pointed at me. Either I don't need the police, or the police can't help me.

    Parent

    If you rent (none / 0) (#40)
    by chaking on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:26:24 PM EST
    and live in an apartment building with others, I believe you can be held liable if your actions damage their or the building's property. Cheap renter's insurance solves that. That said, I went 13 years renting without insurance because I was on the same logic train as you.

    Parent
    No damage... (none / 0) (#45)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:37:58 PM EST
    except for a broken glass pane on the backdoor I fixed for the landlady...we maintain the place ourselves cuz our landlady is elderly and gives us a sweet deal on the rent.  Something breaks we fix it and just deduct supplies from the rent, labor gratis. Handshake lease...my kinda landlady, I am truly blessed;)

    The amateurs still couldn't undo the doorchain, but they found an open window.  The only attempt at apprehension was spreading the word in the neighborhood to be on the lookout for somebody trying to sell my Playstation.  Needless to say they didn't get much.  No problems since I got a dog.

    Parent

    you may think it's just stuff (none / 0) (#27)
    by nycstray on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:34:33 PM EST
    but it may also be some very dear memories they cannot replace, and/or their means to make a living.

    Waiting until the person comes home (who you will inform if you know them!) may be the difference in their chances of ever recovering their "stuff". But hey, as long as your principles aren't bothered . . .

    Parent

    I undertand... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:46:04 PM EST
    where you guys are coming from, believe me, but I had a very bad experience once when an old roomate in FLA called police to report a domestic disturbance at the neighbors...I come home to find a cop in my bedroom snooping and could have easily been locked up myself.  

    But like I said, exception to every rule, I just hope I'm never in that position to have to choose.

    Parent

    Cops can be awful. (none / 0) (#42)
    by chaking on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:29:42 PM EST
     To me, that's not solid enough of a reason to ditch the system.  It's a reason to get proactive and try to help it, unless we truly believe the system in place is unworkable and the problems with it unsolvable.  The alternatives I've seen don't seem to be better.  Keeping silent, for example, helps nobody except the perpetrator.

    Parent
    Another thing on my mind is... (none / 0) (#47)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:46:51 PM EST
    sending a petty thief to prison while the real thieves are "too big to prosecute".

    It's complicated...I like to think karma will catch 'em all eventually, that gets me through the night.

    Parent

    Agree (none / 0) (#51)
    by chaking on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 04:19:30 PM EST
    I agree.  I don't like our "reform" system and I'm not for sending petty thieves or drug users to prison.

    Parent
    Hear Hear... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:45:13 AM EST
    Another thought against reporting is the victim might not want you to...I live in a neighborhood with many recent immigrants, I'd imagine some without papers...they don't want you calling the cops.  Nor does the friendly neighborhood reefer man    who gets robbed, and then maybe gets arrested if the thief didn't find everything...a double kick in the junk.  Shit an old friend of mine got shot while being jacked, woke up in the hospital under arrest.  Triple whammy.

    Like I said...because the law is all f*cked up, it gets complicated sometimes about what the right thing to do is.

    Parent

    D.O.G. (none / 0) (#58)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:19:45 PM EST
    Does it have a name, or I guess that is its name?

    Parent
    That's his name... (none / 0) (#67)
    by kdog on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 07:59:28 PM EST
    D.O.G....kinda pronounced Diogi.  Notorious D.O.G. is just a nickname.  

    Parent
    DOG (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 08:13:23 PM EST
    I had a dog that I worried about, should someone break into my apartment. The dog looked really vicious, rottweiler mix, but had zero aggression toward humans. He did like to hunt and kill rabbits and groundhogs though... My concern was that someone who wanted to break into my place would kill the dog right away, out of fear.

    I came home one day to find that my place was burglarized...  stereo was gone and a few other things that were near the window. It is likely that my apartment was not completely ransacked because of my dog. Presumably he was sitting and staring at the burglar, hoping to earn some treats for good behavior.

    Parent

    I'd rather have a friendly dog than a good (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:29:38 PM EST
    guard dog any day.  Who really wants to be sued?

    Parent
    That sucks... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:36:54 AM EST
    on the brightside, your pooch wasn't hurt and may have minimized the loss.

    My mutt can be unfriendly towards strange men...great with kids and the ladies, but not the fellas.  I think it was because he was abused by his former owner, we found him as a stray and took him in.  F*cker's gettin' old but he can still menace.

    Parent

    Kdog (none / 0) (#135)
    by Chuck0 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 01:29:44 PM EST
    I am with you 1000%. My distrust for the police state in this country is so high, I wouldn't call the police for any reason. I don't care if the insurance company wants a police report. You call the police nowadays, and they'll spend more time investigating you (the caller or reporter of a crime) than they will looking for any actual evidence or criminals. My distrust is to the level that I removed the numbers 9 and 1 from all my phones.

    Parent
    You Mean Federal Law (none / 0) (#23)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:24:12 PM EST
    What a loophole, either buy the brand-name or have absolutely no recourse if it F's you up.
    The ruling creates an oddity in the law. People who are hurt by a brand-name drug can sue the drug maker for damages, the Supreme Court said in 2009.

    But the same is not true for those who take a generic drug. The court has now handed down two rulings that have closed the door to lawsuits from people injured by a generic drug.

    About 80% of prescriptions written in this country are for generic drugs.



    Parent
    I don't think that evaluation is completely true (none / 0) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:02:55 PM EST
    I believe the ruling is you can't sue a generic under state law when the generic had abided by federal law. I could be wrong.

    Parent
    According to LAT, plaintiff sued under state (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:09:09 PM EST
    consumer protection law, but SCOTUS majority decided fed. approval by FDA preempted state cause of action here.

    Parent
    Off topic... (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:39:44 AM EST
    Hardcore self-imposed hermitude for 3 1/2 weeks...la mujer especial que viene para dos semanas y media.  19 de Julio a 6 de Augusto...Orale!

    Parent
    Excellent. If I knew more Spanish I . (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:24:25 PM EST
    would understand whether your special lady is traveling north or she is traveling south. Either way, it's all good.

    Parent
    It would be one brutal flight... (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:10:52 AM EST
    if she was traveling south over Antartica to come back around the way to New York! ;)

    She better put on her rock-n-roll shoes because there is a ton of music on the agenda...Great South Bay Music Festival, Trombone Shorty @ Summerstage, The Wailers @ Stephens Talkhouse, Bob F*ckin' Dylan w/ Wilco, My Morning Jacket, & Ryan Bingham at the Americana Festival on the pier in Hoboken, and two days of the Gathering of the Vibes with Phil Lesh & Friends and The Black Crowes headlining.  

    The hermitude runs so deep for this I am foregoing the sacrament for the next month...err, foregoing buying the sacrament, I'll be calling in favors all over the neighborhood;)

    Parent

    You are very seriously involved here! (none / 0) (#196)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:28:15 AM EST
    I hope to meet your special lady one day.  

    Parent
    Mysteries of the TAO Revealed (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:24:13 PM EST
    STEPHANOPOULOS: ....He [Snowden] said that the NSA does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cell phone companies to steal all of your SMS data.

    Is that true?

    ALEXANDER: Well, we have interest in those who collect on us as an intelligence agency. But to say that we're willfully just collecting all sorts of data would give you the impression that we're just trying to canvas the whole world.

    The fact is what we're trying to do is get the information our nation needs, the foreign intelligence, that primary mission, in this case and the case that Snowden has brought up is in defending this nation from a terrorist attack.

    emptywheel

    Ironic.. The Way.. we are using the TAO to catch Chinese terrorists. Who knew I thought all terrorists were Muslim.

    By the time Obama became president of the United States in January 2009, TAO had become something akin to the wunderkind of the U.S. intelligence community. "It's become an industry unto itself," a former NSA official said of TAO at the time. "They go places and get things that nobody else in the IC [intelligence community] can."

    Given the nature and extraordinary political sensitivity of its work, it will come as no surprise that TAO has always been, and remains, extraordinarily publicity shy. Everything about TAO is classified top secret codeword, even within the hypersecretive NSA. Its name has appeared in print only a few times over the past decade, and the handful of reporters who have dared inquire about it have been politely but very firmly warned by senior U.S. intelligence officials not to describe its work for fear that it might compromise its ongoing efforts. According to a senior U.S. defense official who is familiar with TAO's work, "The agency believes that the less people know about them [TAO] the better."



    The Supreme Court (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 01:59:24 PM EST
    agreed to hear National Labor Relations Board v. Noel Canning next term.

    Lyle Denniston at SCOTUSblog has a great overview, but the gist is:

    The specific issue is the scope of the Constitution's grant of presidential power to put an official temporarily into office without Senate approval - a power that arises when the Senate is not on hand to review that appointment.  Answering that could require the Court to define when the Senate, in a legal sense, goes into recess.

    The issue goes as far back as recess appointments by George Washington, but it also is as new as the latest partisan jousting between President Obama and Senate Republicans over his appointment power.  The gridlock over Obama nominees has threatened to make one government agency - the NLRB - unable to function.

    While the Court will be focusing on constitutional questions, the outcome has real potential for giving either the Senate or the White House real tactical advantages in the ongoing confirmation wars.  It could give a resistant Senate a chance to nearly take away the president's recess appointment authority, or it could give the White House a way to get around filibuster-driven obstruction of nominees.

    SNIP

    Noel Canning joined the government in urging the Court to rule on its case, but asked the Court to add another question: does the Senate have the power to block any presidential appointments by coming back every three days, during any recess, for pro forma meetings that do little or no legislative business and with only a single senator on hand to swiftly gavel the chamber into and out of session.  


    Does the Court really want to go there? (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:41:13 PM EST
    Historically, the judiciary has been loathe to interfere in the internal rulemaking of legislatures, by which legislators determine for themselves how they will conduct their business.

    I don't think it's the Supreme Court's business to define the terms "adjourn" and "recess" for Congress, any more than it would be vice versa.

    While I can't speak to often arcane rules of the U.S. Senate, on the state level a legislative body will generally stand in recess rather than adjourn for the day (or other proscribed period of time) whenever there is outstanding business -- i.e., committee reports, resolutions, and / or amended legislation -- still to be filed with the clerk's office, so that it can then be formally scheduled for action on the floor, subject to the call of that body's leadership.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    The Court pretty much (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:49:36 PM EST
    HAS to go there. There's been a circuit split on the issue.

    Petitioner, a bottler and distributor of Pepsi-Cola products, appealed a ruling by the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) deciding that the company had violated Section 8(a)(1) and (5) of the National Labor Relations Act (NLRA). Petitioner challenged the Board's conclusion and in the alternative argued that the NLRB lacked authority to act because it did not have a quorum. Three members of the five-member board were appointed on January 4, 2012 under the Recess Appointment Clause of the Constitution while the Senate was meeting in pro forma sessions.

    The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit held that the appointments did not occur while the Senate was actually in "recess" and that the vacancies did not "happen" while the Senate was in recess. Looking at the language, purpose, and structure of the Constitution and historical practice since its ratification, the court interpreted the term "Recess" to mean time when the Senate is not in session and rejected the government's position that "Recess" includes short breaks taken during a session. In so concluding, the D.C. Circuit disagreed with the Eleventh Circuit's holding in Evans v. Stephens. The court also interpreted the term "happen" to mean "arise" during a recess, rather than merely "exist" during a recess, parting company with the Eleventh, Ninth, and Second Circuits in Evans, United States v. Woodley, and United States v. Allocco, respectively. Because the appointments were invalid, a quorum never existed, and the D.C. Circuit vacated the NLRB's ruling.



    Parent
    IMHO, no federal court should interfere ... (none / 0) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:00:31 PM EST
    ... in the institutional prerogatives of the U.S. Senate, even if it is dysfunctional. The D.C. Circuit Court should never have agreed to hear and rule on that case.

    One day, when a future Congress decides to f*** with the institutional rulemaking authority of federal courts, these judges will regret having taken an action that simply begs for tit-for-tat retaliation among the petty-minded on Capitol Hill.

    Parent

    "Historically, (none / 0) (#66)
    by NYShooter on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 07:48:36 PM EST
    the judiciary has been loathe to interfere in the internal rulemaking of legislatures, by which legislators determine for themselves how they will conduct their business."
    **************

    However, exceptions can be made (the year, 2000) if the ruling majority consists of Corporate Lackeys  and Moral Midgets who feel that quaint antiquities such as "the will of the people," or, "the rule of law," must be trumped by personal pique and partisan preference. Speaking for the majority,  spontaneously dubbed "The Reactionary Constitutional Rapists," by legal scholars worldwide Justice Thom'o Renkenlia,  answered charges they had violated their own vehemently held principals regarding respect for precedence and non-interference in State Legislative Business playfully flipped the bird to the reporter as he winked, and whispered, WTF, Bernie?

    Parent

    Fisher v. Texas (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:09:07 PM EST
    Link:

    Today a broad majority of the Court reinforced that affirmative action must be strictly reviewed, but it did not outlaw those programs.  In an opinion that required only thirteen pages, the Court explained that a university's use of race must meet a test known as "strict scrutiny."  Under this test, a university's use of affirmative action will be constitutional only if it is "narrowly tailored."  The Court in Fisher took pains to make clear exactly what this means:  courts can no longer simply rubber-stamp a university's determination that it needs to use affirmative action to have a diverse student body.  Instead, courts themselves will need to confirm that the use of race is "necessary" - that is, that there is no other realistic alternative that does not use race that would also create a diverse student body.  Because the lower court had not done so, the Court sent the case back for it to determine whether the university could make this showing.

    SNIP

    Given how long it took the Court to decide this case (nearly nine months), the seven-to-one vote came as somewhat of a surprise.  Although it may be many years before we know for sure, it seems very possible that the end result was a compromise brokered to break a stalemate:  affirmative action survives at least in theory (which would gain the support of Justices Breyer and Sotomayor), but will be far more difficult to implement in practice (which would gain the support of the Court's more conservative Justices).   But for now, and probably much to their relief, affirmative action is off the Justices' plate - at least until fall, when they will hear oral arguments in a case challenging an amendment to the Michigan constitution that prohibits the use of affirmative action by public universities.


    Downton Abbey news... (none / 0) (#26)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:33:11 PM EST
    From The Guardian:

    The Sideways star Paul Giamatti is joining the cast of Downton Abbey alongside his fellow US actor Shirley MacLaine.

    But Downton fans will have to wait until the feature-length final episode of the fourth series at Christmas for Giamatti's entrance, playing Harold, the "maverick, playboy brother" of Elizabeth McGovern's Cora, Countess of Grantham.

    MacLaine, who had a guest starring role in last year's third outing of the hit ITV drama as Cora's straight-talking American mother, will also be back for the Christmas special.

    The casting of big-name US talent is a canny move by Downton Abbey's producers with one eye on the American market, where the show is arguably an even bigger hit than in the UK.

    It is the highest-rating drama in US broadcaster PBS's 40-year history and has won multiple Emmy and Golden Globe awards.

    Other new cast members for this autumn's new series include Dame Kiri Te Kanawa, the former EastEnders actor Nigel Harman, Tom Cullen, Julian Ovenden, Joanna David and Gary Carr.

    As disappointed as I was with the demise of Matthew Crawley, I am looking forward to the next season.

    A little Downton Abbey spoiler alert. (none / 0) (#39)
    by caseyOR on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:24:31 PM EST
    At the end of last season when Mary had her baby and lost Matthew there was some speculation here at TL about what Mary would name the wee lad. Would she follow Tom's lead and name her baby after her newly departed spouse? Would baby Matthew join his cousin, baby Sybil in the Downton nursery?

    If you do not want to know the baby's name yet, stop reading right now.

    I recently read a print interview with Michelle Dockery, who plays Mary. And, here's the spoiler, she let slip that the baby is named George. No little Matthew , Jr.

    That is the biggest bit of info I got from that interview.

    Parent

    Oh well, at least she didn't name him (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by shoephone on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:31:40 PM EST
    Ohrun, in memory of Mr. Pamuk...

    Parent
    This comment amuses me. But in what (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:49:57 AM EST
    is the author connected w/the series?

    Parent
    Oops! You're right, it's "Kamal" Pamuk! (none / 0) (#101)
    by shoephone on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:12:05 AM EST
    God catch, Oc. I guess when I think of Pamuk, my brain automatically conjures up the novelist. But Lady Mary's Mr. Pamuk was indeed a Kamal, not an Ohrun.

    (And "Snow" is a good book...)

    Parent

    I haven't watched the show but (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:26:28 AM EST
    your commentn intrigued me. I am a big fan of Pamuk's non-fiction and I need to research whether he has published anything re the current situation in Turkey.

    Parent
    Yes, he has: (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:35:05 AM EST
    I saw that Paul Giamatti is going to play (none / 0) (#105)
    by magster on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:36:10 AM EST
    Cora's playboy American brother when he comes over for Christmas with Shirley McClane at the end of the next season.

    Parent
    Giamatti had a (none / 0) (#73)
    by MKS on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 09:34:15 PM EST
    part in Saving Private Ryan.   He was very memorable as an everyman sergeant.

    Parent
    Wimbledon Pratfall: (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 02:53:02 PM EST
    Fresh off his triumph in the French Open, two-time champion Rafael Nadal of Spain became the first major upset victim of this year's tournament at Wimbledon, losing his opening round match today in straight sets to unseeded Steve Darcis of Belgium. Ouch.

    It happens - makes life a little (none / 0) (#34)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 03:05:37 PM EST
    more interesting when the unexpected happens.

    I'd venture to guess that Darcis is probably no less gobsmacked than Nadal is at this development - and possibly less able to handle victory than Nadal is to handle defeat.

    For those of you (none / 0) (#56)
    by CoralGables on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:05:14 PM EST
    thinking it's only men that make stupid comments about women's bodies, I serve up Texas State Rep. Jody Laubenberg (R). She explains why there is no need for an abortion exception in the case of rape, because there are ways to prevent the pregnancy:

    "In the emergency room they have what's called rape kits where a woman can get cleaned out."

    Oh, brother. (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by oculus on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:15:44 PM EST
    All righty, then. (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:30:18 PM EST
    While they're in there, "cleaning me out", wonder if they can do a little liposuction at the same time?

    Parent
    women who say stupid stuff (none / 0) (#64)
    by TeresaInPa on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 07:10:16 PM EST
    like that are the worst. The problem is that they are often the women who get mentored and approved by the old boys club because they have the right positions on the hot button issues, like rape after 20 weeks etc.... This is a nightmare seeing this dolt say something so stupid when there are probably hundreds of smarter more moderate republican women in her district who could run against her and win.

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#96)
    by unitron on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:42:20 AM EST
    A garden hose and a shop vac aren't good enough?

    What

    a

    maroon.

    Parent

    I noticed that Ms. Laubenberg ... (none / 0) (#184)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:07:07 AM EST
    ... is what they call a "bottle blonde," so all that peroxide must've somehow leached through her skull and short-circuited a few synapses.

    Parent
    Dallas botox queen. (none / 0) (#191)
    by Angel on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:33:47 AM EST
    See Someone: Say Something (none / 0) (#59)
    by squeaky on Mon Jun 24, 2013 at 05:25:52 PM EST
    If TAO is a yawn how about Insider Threat:

    via digby

    President Barack Obama's unprecedented initiative, known as the Insider Threat Program, is sweeping in its reach. It has received scant public attention even though it extends beyond the U.S. national security bureaucracies to most federal departments and agencies nationwide, including the Peace Corps, the Social Security Administration and the Education and Agriculture departments. It emphasizes leaks of classified material, but catchall definitions of "insider threat" give agencies latitude to pursue and penalize a range of other conduct....

    ...millions of federal employees and contractors must watch for "high-risk persons or behaviors" among co-workers and could face penalties, including criminal charges, for failing to report them. Leaks to the media are equated with espionage....

    The Defense Department anti-leak strategy obtained by McClatchy spells out a zero-tolerance policy. Security managers, it says, "must" reprimand or revoke the security clearances - a career-killing penalty - of workers who commit a single severe infraction or multiple lesser breaches "as an unavoidable negative personnel action."

    .....Employees must turn themselves and others in for failing to report breaches. "Penalize clearly identifiable failures to report security infractions and violations, including any lack of self-reporting," the strategic plan says....

    The Defense Department anti-leak strategy obtained by McClatchy spells out a zero-tolerance policy. Security managers, it says, "must" reprimand or revoke the security clearances - a career-killing penalty - of workers who commit a single severe infraction or multiple lesser breaches "as an unavoidable negative personnel action."

    Employees must turn themselves and others in for failing to report breaches. "Penalize clearly identifiable failures to report security infractions and violations, including any lack of self-reporting," the strategic plan says.

    "It's about people's profiles, their approach to work, how they interact with management. Are they cheery? Are they looking at Salon.com or The Onion during their lunch break? This is about `The Stepford Wives,'" said a second senior Pentagon official, referring to online publications and a 1975 movie about robotically docile housewives. The official said he wanted to remain anonymous to avoid being punished for criticizing the program.



    Really glad... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:28:41 AM EST
    I don't have a government job.

    "If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself."

    - George Orwell

    And there's something really perverse about naming the text message snooping program Tao...but I guess it fits.  This is our path, our principle.  Forgive us lord, we know not all that we fund.

    Parent

    Massachusetts Senate Election Today (none / 0) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 08:01:31 AM EST
    The special election to fill John Kerry's seat in the Senate is today. Hard to believe how quietly this one is running under the radar compared to Elizabeth Warren vs Scott Brown.

    Warren beat Brown 54-46 and it was national news from start to finish. Today Ed Markey (D) will likely quietly beat Gabriel Gomez (R) by a slightly larger margin somewhere in the area of 56-44.

    SCOTUSblog reporting (none / 0) (#86)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:11:32 AM EST
    Shelby County (Voting Rights case) -

    Section 4 of the Voting Rights Act is unconstitutional. Its formula can no longer be used as a basis for subjecting jurisdictions to preclearance.


    From the Chief Justice's Opinion (none / 0) (#87)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:14:48 AM EST
    "Our decision in no way affects the permanent, nationwide ban on racial discrimination in voting found in [Section] 2. We issue no holding on [Section] 5 itself, only on the coverage formula. Congress may draft another formula based on current conditions"


    Parent
    The Opinion (none / 0) (#88)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:15:20 AM EST
    DOMA and Prop 8 tomorrow (none / 0) (#90)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:36:30 AM EST
    Most likely (none / 0) (#91)
    by jbindc on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:45:52 AM EST
    Roberts will write the Prop 8 decision, Kennedy will write the DOMA decision, and Scalia will write the final remaining decision.

    Parent
    Congress just rounded up the usual suspects (none / 0) (#122)
    by kramartini on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:25:54 PM EST
    After gathering thousands of pages of data in 2006, Congress failed to come up with a new Section 4(b) coverage formula, but simply recycled the old one.

    This was legislative incompetence and deserved to be struck down.

    Parent

    Section 5 of Voting Rights Act gutted by S.Ct. (none / 0) (#92)
    by magster on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:46:55 AM EST
    5-4 decision. Disgusting.

    Correction, Section 4 of VRA. (none / 0) (#93)
    by magster on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:47:54 AM EST
    Well, sort of...Section 5 can't function (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:19:27 PM EST
    if Section 4 doesn't exist, so the ruling was a way to gut Section 5 without actually getting any fingerprints on it.

    Nice, huh?

    Parent

    Brilliant decision (none / 0) (#125)
    by kramartini on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:28:11 PM EST
    No excuse for using 40 year old data...Congress screwed the pooch on this one and deserved to be called out.

    Parent
    I doubt that (none / 0) (#127)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:37:29 PM EST
    but what about the argument that the current Act prevents backsliding....Take away what cured the defect, and perhaps the disease comes back....

    Should the Surpreme Court not substitute its own judgment for that of Congress?  Conservative juidical activism....Shameful opinion.

    Parent

    Your point would have more (none / 0) (#138)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:09:00 PM EST
    merit if the law was applied evenly across all 50 states.

    It isn't.  It is focused on old Jim Crow states and is essentially legislation to prevent black discrimination in the south.

    In 1965 that was relevant.   In 2012 the gap between white/black voter participation is gone.

    The court is telling congress that if they need new laws write them.

    The old law is outdated.

    Parent

    I would suggest that you please read ... (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:52:54 PM EST
    ... Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg's eloquently scathing dissent in Shelby County v. Holder:

    "Throwing out preclearance when it has worked and is continuing to work to stop discriminatory changes, is like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you are not getting wet."

    She cited several race-based violations of the Voting Rights Act that occurred recently, such as:

    "In 2001, the mayor and all-white five-member Board of Aldermen in Kilmichael, Mississippi abruptly canceled the town's election after an 'unprecedented number' of African American candidates announced they were running for office. DOJ required an election, and the town elected its first black mayor and three black aldermen."

    "In 2006, this Court found that Texas' attempt to redraw a congressional district to reduce the strength of Latino voters bore 'the mark of intentional discrimination that could give rise to an equal rights violation,' and ordered the district to be redrawn in compliance with the VRA. In response, Texas sought to undermine this Court's order by curtailing early voting in the district, by was blocked by an action to enforce the [Section 5] preclearance requirement."

    And FYI, while it's true that nine of the eleven states comprising the former Confederacy (save for Arkansas and Tennessee) were wholly or partly subject to the provisions of the Voting Rights Act, that law also applied to:

    • The entire states of Alaska and Arizona;
    • The counties of Monterey and Yuba in California; and
    • The boroughs of Queens, Brooklyn and New York (Manhattan) in New York City.
    And occasionally, the VRA had to be enforced in places like Los Angeles, CA; Thurston County, NB; the State of New Mexico and parts of South Dakota and Michigan, as well.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Exactly (none / 0) (#162)
    by kramartini on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 06:39:35 PM EST
    When Congress applies a law only to an unpopular subset of states, judicial scrutiny is vital.

    Parent
    Congress in 2006 voted to ... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 12:02:22 AM EST
    ... reauthorize the Voting Rights Act, by a 98-0 margin in the U.S. Senate and a 390-33 margin in the U.S. House.

    One could therefore assume that since an overwhelming majority of congressional representatives from that "unpopular subset of states" quite obviously voted in favor of it, they undoubtedly felt a compelling need to retain the law.

    Parent

    After the passage of the 17th Amendment (none / 0) (#188)
    by kramartini on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:07:41 AM EST
    the states no longer get a vote in Congress...

    Parent
    And in 2009 (none / 0) (#192)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:44:47 AM EST
    The Court warned Congress in NAMUNDO that they were ready to strike it down:

    The déjà vu is palpable.  Four years ago, in Northwest Austin Municipal Utility District No. One v. Holder, the Court held that Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act raises "serious constitutional questions."  The Act's preclearance remedy - in which covered jurisdictions must affirmatively justify their duly enacted legislation before federal officials - imposed "substantial federalism costs" and was justified at the time of enactment only by the "exceptional conditions" then prevailing in covered jurisdictions.  The Act's coverage formula was "based on data that is now more than 35 years old," and there was "considerable evidence that it fails to account for current political conditions."  Although the Court ultimately decided the case on narrower statutory grounds, it did not mince words in stating that Section 5 was in peril unless it was updated to reflect the fact that "we are now a very different Nation" than we were in 1965.

    It is now clear that the Court meant what it said.  In today's decision in Shelby County, the Court cited Northwest Austin more than thirty times, and Sections I, II, and III.A of the Court's decision are strikingly similar to Sections I and II of Northwest Austin.  Indeed, there are only about five pages of "new" material in the majority opinion, which respond to specific arguments raised by the government and the dissent.  So today's decision was not in any way a surprise.

    Congress should have been paying attention. Or, at least those who were in favor of keeping the VRA intact, should have been raising louder alarms.

    Parent

    Judicial Activism (none / 0) (#158)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:51:33 PM EST
    "In liberal usage "judicial activism" is when judges deny legislators or the executive the power to do something unconstitutional. But that is what courts are supposed to do, so in that sense the phrase just means that the judges in question showed up for work."

    -Maria Loyola

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 07:57:52 AM EST
    But the opposite of what conservatives usually claim - except (as now), when it suits them.

    Parent
    Section 3(c) can prevent backsliding (none / 0) (#160)
    by kramartini on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 06:32:58 PM EST
    Lost in all of the sound and fury regarding Section 5 is the fact that, even after today's decision, there are still jurisdictions subject to pre-clearance under Section 3(c) of the Voting Rights Act.

    For example, Charles Mix County in South Dakota must pre-clear its future voting changes either with the DOJ or a Federal District Court in Sioux Falls, as a result of its discrimination against Native Americans.

    Section 3(c) is fairer and better policy than Section 5, since it imposes pre-clearance in response to discrimination proven in a court of law, rather than based on the whims of Congress, and applies to the entire country.

    Also, the prospect of ending up in Section 3(c) pre-clearance provides a deterrent against backsliding...

    Parent

    eye roll (none / 0) (#151)
    by magster on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:03:44 PM EST
    15th Amendment gives Congress broad authority to make the appropriate implementing laws. The court just ruled the 15th amendment unconstitutional. The quintet of Robers, Alito, Thomas, Scalia and Kennedy are going to go down in infamy with the disgraces that came upon the court in the 1850s, 1890s and early 1930s.

    Parent
    No rational basis for Section 4(b) (none / 0) (#161)
    by kramartini on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 06:36:44 PM EST
    In recycling the old formula for Section 4(b), Congress failed to meet even the lax standards of the rational basis test, and failed to heed the Supreme Court's warning in NAMUDNO.

    What a shameful dereliction of duty by Congress.

    A brilliant and courageous decision by SCOTUS!

    Parent

    Legislators in no position to determine.... (5.00 / 4) (#163)
    by magster on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 07:27:55 PM EST
    whether racism is dead in the old south. Why just look at Florida's last election where every rule was put in place to make it impossible for minorities to vote.

    This decision is a disgrace. I bet it was cribbed almost entirely from something ALEC wrote.

    Parent

    This is not about racism (none / 0) (#189)
    by kramartini on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:09:14 AM EST
    but about equal treatment of states, or at least finding a rational basis for treating them unequally.

    Using 40 year old data to justify any law is irrational.

    Parent

    Indeed, it is a sad day (none / 0) (#167)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 09:41:48 PM EST
    You have to shake your head about the methodology as well...appear to focus only on the initial formula in Section 4 as a way of using the scalpel to eviscerate Section 5.  And, as I heard earlier today ... that if you want to ignore the reality of very much extant racism, as the 5 majority did today, you only have to look at the patterns of 2012 voting to understand that it is very much hiding there like a snake.  And, then, wouldn't ya' know...right on cue...the state of Texas chimes in with pushing for voter ID, followed by a few other similarly-situated states.  

    I don't know whether all other cases are equal:  But it seems obvious that the root of so much is a combo of the go-ahead money boost from Citizens United together with Shelby and others ultimately tied to voting rights & participation.  The end result, of course, has to do with the power that comes with being elected...as, I'm sure, CJ John Roberts knows.

    Parent

    Texas voter ID has been the law since 2011 (none / 0) (#190)
    by kramartini on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 08:12:26 AM EST
    As Shelby County implies that Texas has not been a Section 5 jurisdiction since the expiration of the 1982 VRA, all laws purportedly being held up by Section 5 take immediate effect...

    Parent
    Not Getting Into The Whole GZ Trial, But... (none / 0) (#95)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:33:58 AM EST
    ...WTF ?

    Prosecutor John Guy:

    "Good morning. `Fuc*ing punks, these as*holes all get away,'"

    Defense attorney Don West:

    "Knock knock. Who's there? George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman who? Good, you're on the jury,"

    LINK

    *Note, I had to replace the asterisks in the original quote because it was cutting and making bold some of the text.


    I don't understand (none / 0) (#106)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:38:48 AM EST
    this.  You would think that most attorneys would not have taken these tacks.
    Maybe I can sort of understand the prosecutor wanting to get those words of GZ out there, but to lead off with them, with no set-up?  I guess he thought he was being dramatic, but they struck me as just being shocking for the sake of shock, and if I were a jury member, I would have thought less of him.
    And a knock-knock joke?  I'm certainly no lawyer, but maybe defense attorneys such as Jeralyn or PeterG would enlighten us as to whether they think this was such a good idea, and would they ever do such a thing.  Because again, if I were on that jury, I would have been insulted, not amused.  If you're a defense attorney, do you really want to be insulting the jurors who will decide your client's fate?
    Not that either of these would make me change my mind on any possible verdict, because I would still try to be totally objective and weigh the testimonies of the witnesses and the evidence fairly.  But, really.  
    What were they thinking?  Where did these two go to law school?

    Parent
    I think John Guy recited those words simply to (none / 0) (#110)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:54:18 AM EST
    get everyone's attention; it certainly got mine.  No idea why Don West did the knock-knock joke, it seemed insulting.  

    Parent
    It got my attention, too (none / 0) (#112)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:00:31 PM EST
    But in a very negative way.  Perhaps not what he intended.

    Parent
    I didn't react negatively to it as I thought he (none / 0) (#120)
    by Angel on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:25:09 PM EST
    was trying to get the jury to have a bad first impression of George Zimmerman and the events of that night.  We won't know until after the trial whether he achieved his intent, if that was in fact his intent.  

    Parent
    I suppose I can understand (none / 0) (#143)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:26:51 PM EST
    that reasoning, if that was his intent.  But it left a bad taste in my mouth.
    But then, I'm not on that jury.  Thanks be to The Flying Spaghetti Monster!  

    Parent
    Just Weird (none / 0) (#132)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:54:05 PM EST
    I agree, both bothered me.  Starting with a shock quote or joking around in a murder trial.  

    I may not be a lawyer, but I have seen my share of opening arguments and these are out there.  

    But it's really hard for me to image there are people alive who don't already know a lot about this trial, who haven't heard the GZ quote.  And the joke was directed at the jury and not IMO in a flattering light.  So much so that he later apologized for it.

    Parent

    Gutsy opening (none / 0) (#113)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:01:25 PM EST
    by the Prosecuting attorney.   His first words will be remembered...which is apparently what he wanted to accomplish....When he pointed at Zimmerman, and I saw Zimmerman's reaction, it was clear to me that Zimmerman will never subject himself to cross examination....I

    Defense's opening words will also be remembered....A lost opportunity as his overall approach of methodically attempting to deconstruct the prosecution's evidence made sense....Planned jokes in court are very risky...

    I was impressed by the Prosecuting attorney.  Intense.  Short opening.  

    Just comments on style.  The evidence to come.    

    Parent

    Not the way I would've opened a trial. (none / 0) (#185)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 01:45:36 AM EST
    But I have to admit, Mr. Guy sure garnered my immediate attention with that statement.

    Mr. West's counter with the bad "knock-knock" joke disappointed me. George Zimmerman's life and freedom are at stake here, and I think he deserved better than his attorney's badly misjudged attempt at a little levity. But, the trial's got a way to go, so they might as well work out the kinks early.

    Parent

    Meanwhile (none / 0) (#98)
    by Edger on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:47:23 AM EST
    International confidence in US economy `crumbling' after Snowden leaks

    Along with exposing widespread international surveillance, Edward Snowden has revealed how exactly the US is financing its military ambitions, according to Max Keiser.

    RT: Surely not even you can make any kind of link between the Snowden saga and the US economy?

    Max Keiser: The American economy runs on the confidence, confidence that the world accepts the US dollar as world reserve currency, confidence that the US bond market will remain the standard. And what we are seeing is a sell-off in a bond market and a sell-off in the stock market, because confidence in the US and its ability to maintain a global empire through interest rates and the Central Bank policy is crumbling before the world's very eyes.

    What's interesting is that Edward Snowden worked for Booz Allen. Booz Allen allegedly along with a few other companies are the masterminds behind LIBOR market rigging, energy market rigging, FOREX market rigging. And this is really the fuel that keeps the American military empire going, because the American economy itself cannot support its military ambitions so they've resorted to market manipulation and the kind of intelligence that Edward Snowden is able to aggregate is key to manipulating markets in ways that make Booz Allen, allegedly, the channel for billions and billions of dollars into America's military campaigns.

    And this is really about money, markets and manipulations. It's not about security.  It's not to do with anything that the White House says. Remember, the White House is a puppet of Wall Street, Booz Allen, the hedge funds and the financial interests of the corrupt bankers.      

    Obviously, the only way to pull the fat out of the fire and save the day is to shoot the messenger, dammit! Lol.

    Shooting the messenger (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:02:46 AM EST
    Well, a witness's credibility is always at issue....

    Or, is it off-limits to question Snowden's credibility?

    Snowden is crashing the U.S. economy.  He must be Superman....

    Parent

    Guardian cartoonist Steve Bell on ... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:25:13 PM EST
    IOW, there is ZERO personal info... (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:29:19 PM EST
    ...about Snowden, no matter how egregious it may be, that can change the facts he brought to light. And those facts are what matter, not whether the messenger is a likable guy with a history pure as Ivory soap.

    We are allowing a police state to literally cement itself into our lives, and I just don't think that's any kind of good thing. Think about the future implications. For the individual citizen's ability to make a difference. If the government doesn't like you, they can go dig through everything in your digital history, and if they have easy access to that and can't find what they want to, well, it takes little to infer that they could also and quite easily make up whatever they wanted to and insert it into that digital record.

    Not to mention creating another class of de-facto police who inevitably come to see themselves as superheroes, far more aware of the danger they are courageously keeping us from than we could ever handle knowing the truth about.

    It's just not about Snowden, not logically or any other way. It's about the information he as availed the American people of, information the government had no right to hold from them.

    Parent

    Credibility does not necessarily mean (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:09:49 PM EST
    information on his personal life.   It does include looking at this motives to see if he is exaggerating or misrepresenting or omitting material facts.  

    It is just a basic review of his statements in a critical light.

    Put another way, how do you know he is not exaggerating, etc?  Because you just believe him?

    Snowden does not get a bye from scrutiny just because he is hero of the Left.  

    Parent

    Wait a minute (5.00 / 3) (#153)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:21:12 PM EST
    You want some facts omitted because they scare you being shared. But if Snowden omits facts, that destroys Snowden's credibility with you.  What a double bind.  All roads with you lead to Snowden is what is wrong with the NSA spying unconstitutionally on all of us, no matter how any of this is ever sliced.

    Parent
    The point (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 05:34:04 PM EST
    is whether Snowden has accurately described the programs....

    And, yes, keeping national security secrets is about not disclosing facts....

    Different circumstances, different agendas.

    It really may not make a difference and Snowden's discloures may be accurate.   But the automatic assumption here that what he has said must be accepted at face value without questioning is a little discordant.  Snowden, the untouchable.

    Parent

    He is so touchable (5.00 / 3) (#177)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:29:03 PM EST
    Many of our leaders long to touch the hell out of him.  He is the 4th NSA whistleblower though, and the one that went about this in such a way that we can hear him out fully.  I'll hear him out fully before I start touching him if you don't mind.

    Parent
    If Only You Would Apply... (5.00 / 2) (#194)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 09:49:59 AM EST
    ...that logic to the government, who has repeatedly downplayed and lied about all these programs folks like Snowden and Kiriakou have exposed.  If only we could investigate the personal lives of everyone involved with the same scrutiny given to Snowden.

    I am in the exact opposite camp as you, not that Snowden is a saint, I have absolutely no love/hate for the man.  But that the government's ability to tell the truth is practically non-existent.  I don't believe anything they tell me because of lie, after lie, after lie.

    If you actually believe what you wrote, there is no way you could believe the government, but since it's actually an attack on Snowden there is no need to actually apply your credibility test to both sides of this equation.

    One side even lied to Congress about collecting data from all its citizens.  One side has a vested interest in lying, far greater than anyone could ever imagine for Snowden or the next big leaker, or the next 10.

    Even if Snowden is proven to be pathological liar, then his word would be exactly as good as the governments.

    I will never understand why folks like you believe the government at this point, while so quick to discredit the folks with actual proof, it's beyond mind boggling.

    Parent

    Folks like me (none / 0) (#195)
    by MKS on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 11:21:31 AM EST
    A little personal and hostile....

    I have never said that the Government is to be automatically believed....

    Parent

    True... (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 26, 2013 at 02:23:16 PM EST
    ...but you only speak of Snowden's credibility, not his accusers.  Quotes like this:
    The point is whether Snowden has accurately described the programs....

    I think the point is whether either side has accurately described the program(s).  You keep arguing as if the government's credibility isn't even part of the equation.

    To which I think it's really the basis of everything and certainly not something that, to date, is anything but garbage.

    Parent

    IMO that subj line shoud've read, not IOW (none / 0) (#145)
    by Dadler on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:30:09 PM EST
    Ohhhhh Nooooo.... (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:12:43 PM EST
    ...Stock market on the rise, turns out America's latest devil isn't the culprit.

    Stocks rose on Tuesday, recovering from a losing start to the week, following a batch of better-than-expected economic reports and after comments from China's central bank eased recent worries about a credit crunch in the world's second-largest economy.

    Not one mention of Snowden in the article, how odd...

    Parent

    Congratulations to all fans of (none / 0) (#102)
    by Zorba on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:25:03 AM EST
    the Chicago Blackhawks on their Stanley Cup victory.  Amazing and dramatic last-minute win.  Two goals scored in the last 76 seconds!

    l'm a Bruins fan but (none / 0) (#129)
    by ExcitableBoy on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:40:59 PM EST
    Chicago deserved it. Champions get it done; Hawks did, Bruins didn't. If you can't hold third-period leads, you don't deserve to raise the Cup. B's twice couldn't. Close series (except for empty net, one goal separated them), but Chicago made the plays when it mattered.

    Parent
    If you're a Bruins fan, then you can ... (none / 0) (#172)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:37:37 PM EST
    ... be happy for the UCLA baseball team, which just captured its first NCAA national title by wiping out Mississippi State tonight, 8-0, to sweep the College World Series.

    Parent
    "The Secret War" is a must-read, (none / 0) (#108)
    by Anne on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:39:47 AM EST
    for anyone who wants an idea of how vast and pervasive and dangerous things are in the world of government cybersecurity.

    James Bamford writes in Wired magazine - I'd provide some excerpts, but you really just need to read the whole thing.

    Makes you wonder about... (none / 0) (#109)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:53:08 AM EST
    the tragic death of investigative journalist of Michael Hastings, and whether it was an accident.

    Richard Clarke says it is possible for the government to hack cars.

    Parent

    Oh, puleeze (none / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:03:15 PM EST
    Evidence first.  

    This is how the Republicans concluded that the IRS really was directed by the White House to target only conseratives.

    Parent

    Not the White House (none / 0) (#115)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:11:41 PM EST
    .

    It must have been Ming the Merciless.

    .

    Parent

    Ming, the Empty Promises Mouther-in-Chief (none / 0) (#124)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:26:24 PM EST
    No, the self-described (none / 0) (#126)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:31:41 PM EST
    "conservative Republican" IRS supervisor in Cincinatti who said he was the one who compiled the search terms....

    Oopsies, evidence destroys a very good talking point.

    Parent

    All I said is... (none / 0) (#131)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:52:49 PM EST
    it makes you wonder...I made no accusation.

    Parent
    I don't care (none / 0) (#146)
    by bocajeff on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:53:47 PM EST
    If it was a far right Republican or far left Democrat who was behind the efforts to discourage political participation. It is wrong. Period.

    Parent
    No, actually it was right (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 04:31:33 PM EST
    The problem with the IRS scandal is that any political group got a tax break.

    The statute says that to get the tax break under 501(c)(4), the group has to be engaged exclusively in social welfare activities.  That means no politcs....

    Every single group complaining about their participation in the political process was being stymied by not getting a tax break, admitted in essence that they were not engaged "exclusively"  in social welfare activities. So, they should not have obtained any tazx break at all--why should I have to subsidize tea party groups with my tax dollars?

    The IRS regulation does contradict the statute and says that a group can qualify for tax breaks so long as they are engaged "primarily" in social welfare actitivities.  So some politics is okay but too much is not..It is an impossible task to ask the IRS to make the call on how much politics is too much.....But under even this watered-down standard, the tea party groups should not have been given tax exempt status--they were cleary primarily engaged in political activity.

    And, yes, I would agree that the liberal groups should also be denied.

    I would note that it was wrong in your view even if done by a conservative Republican stil makes it hard to conceive of this as a White House conspiracy.

    Finally, yes, liberal groups were targeted too.  The BOLO list included "progressive," "occupy," and "blue."  This was revealed yesterday.

    I think the BOLO terms were appropriate.  If you are that engaged in politics, you are not entitled to a tax break.

    Issa should hide his head in shame. As should those politicians including Boehner who called for people to be jailed.

    No one, as far as has been reported, committed a crime.  Or any wrongoing.  The IRS employees were doing their job to weed out political groups from getting an unfair tax break.  

    Parent

    It would be absolutely right (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 04:36:09 PM EST
    And you would be absolutely wrong.

    Parent
    Speeding at a very high rate of speed ... (none / 0) (#173)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 10:58:51 PM EST
    ... on a 4-lane street at 4:15 a.m., sideswiping a median strip and losing control, and then hitting a large date palm so hard that the car's engine and transmission separates completely from the drive train, which ruptures the fuel tank, doesn't make me wonder about Michael Hastings' death at all.

    Without a doubt, we're going to miss Hastings. He was a wonderful journalist and top-notch investigative reporter, but apparently also a lousy driver.

    However, if it's any consolation to you, the good folks over at The American Spectator -- you know, the same people who brought us Paula Jones back in 1994 -- are wondering, too.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    James Bamford! (none / 0) (#174)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 11:10:13 PM EST
    I had to read his book about the NSA, The Puzzle Palace, for my graduate seminar in 20th century U.S. history at the University of Hawaii. (My professor was Dr. Edward Beechert, who's a prominent U.S. labor historian, since retired.)

    I really didn't think too much about the book at the time, but I kept it and then re-read it again after finding it in a box about a decade later, and it made much more sense to me the second time around.

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    Live feed of GZ trial (none / 0) (#123)
    by magster on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:26:16 PM EST
    just showed the body of TM at the scene. However you feel about the case, very heartbreaking.

    Some folks are born made to wave the flag, (none / 0) (#128)
    by Edger on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 12:40:11 PM EST
    Ooh, they're red, white and blue.
    And when the band plays "Hail to the chief",
    Ooh, they point the cannon at you.........

    That Is The Song.... (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:07:40 PM EST
    ...that played in my head every time I saw Meghan McCain on the TV.

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    I got a compromise proposal... (none / 0) (#136)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 01:44:54 PM EST
    for Putin...he can keep Snowden, but he's gotta let the two P*ssy Riot members outta their cages.  Let freedom ring.

    On second thought, Putin is so petty he'd never go for it.  And of course, neither would Obama.  Never mind.

    How about we (none / 0) (#139)
    by Slado on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:10:11 PM EST
    trade Snowden for another Super Bowl Ring?

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    Putin can drive a hard bargain (none / 0) (#141)
    by MKS on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:13:40 PM EST
    right now.....Wonder if there any negotiations...

    I'd offer up a Steeles or Giants ring without a second thought...

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    That's Kraft's problem... (none / 0) (#142)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 02:15:17 PM EST
    I though Putin was sending Kraft a ring of the finest metal and stone? That issue is settled lol.

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    Years ago in Aspen (none / 0) (#147)
    by fishcamp on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 03:04:31 PM EST
    I saw one of John Elway's Super Bowl rings.  It was huge and atrocious with a big bucking bronco and slathered in diamonds.  

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    They do appear... (none / 0) (#148)
    by kdog on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 03:08:31 PM EST
    gaudy and ugly...I like how we commemorate our rec league titles with the prize money, a championship jacket and one helluva bar tab.

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    Options (none / 0) (#164)
    by Edger on Tue Jun 25, 2013 at 08:14:30 PM EST
    Former NSA agent Edward Snowden has been accused of treason and is currently the target of an international manhunt. With the U.S. demanding his return to America... Snowden's current options are:

    • Set everything right by returning leaked NSA secrets to their original owners

    • Flee to a nation with widespread public hostility to the U.S., such as the U.S.

    • Found a new country on a piece of land no one has

    • Point out to U.S government how expensive court battle would be for both sides

    • Cackle and deliver defiant speech at federal agents from inside hall of mirrors, leaving them completely confounded as to which one's the real Edward Snowden

    • Apologize to the 254 Americans who actually had a problem with what he did