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Monday Night Open Thread

I'm just catching up on today's news.

The Supreme Court will decide whether police can seize hotel registries of guests without a warrant. The 9th Circuit ruled the California law allowing warrantless access to the data violated the 4th Amendment. Among the data hotels are required to obtain from guests:

[I]dentification, method of payment, the license plate numbers of their cars and how much they paid. For guests who pay in cash or stay for less than 12 hours, it requires even more details.

The fighting in Kobane increased today. ISIS launched more suicide attacks, including one on a Kurdish village in Iraq where they disguised themselves in Peshmerga uniforms. They also struck again in Baghdad, killing 17 or 19 people attending a funeral at a mosque, and in Karbala. Congress approved the sale of $600 million in tank ammunition to Iraq. Who's the lucky seller? General Dynamics Corp. [More...]

Muhammad Murdi Issa al-Zahrani, a Saudi detainee at Guantanamo has been approved for transfer back to Saudia Arabia. He has been held without charges since 2002.

1,000 potential jurors will be summoned for the trial of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Hey ZtoA (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by lentinel on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 08:42:17 PM EST
    I listened to the Scott Ross rendition of Les Barricades Mystérieuses by François Couperin to which you linked.

    Very beautiful.

    Thanks for the heads up.

    So glad you liked it! (none / 0) (#26)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 11:21:20 PM EST
    Here's one where it is best to listen to and watch. Ambient sounds actually add to it - at least for me. Very slow tempo too, but I like it.  Here.

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#94)
    by lentinel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:51:14 PM EST
    Beautifully played - and beautifully recorded!

    Parent
    Yesterday (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:27:01 AM EST
    when I was taking my son to middle school I saw a Ready for Hillary bumper sticker on a car. I simply had to look twice because I couldn't believe I saw even one. Maybe there are enough people who are sick of the tea party around here? One can always hope I guess.

    Was the car from (none / 0) (#59)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:59:07 AM EST
    Out of town? ;-D

    Parent
    I love it (none / 0) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:38:06 PM EST
    I saw a sticker last week that said "Obama is not Jesus!"

    Well duh...cuz he's God!  I am awful

    Parent

    Thrilled to report that at 4:22 this morning, (5.00 / 7) (#107)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:23:48 PM EST
    my daughter gave birth to a beautiful, healthy baby boy.  Daughter and her husband are over the moon, and that pretty much describes how the rest of us are feeling.  

    Pretty bleary-eyed at this point - but considering the reason, I can't complain.  Best kind of tired there is.

    Huge congrats! (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:34:14 PM EST
    Thank you so much - it's really (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:58:08 PM EST
    just a wonderful thing to have reached this stage in my life, where I am being rewarded for having survived the adolescence of two girls...and ended up with great daughters, terrific sons-in-law, and now, grandchildren.

    I love it.

    Parent

    Lucky Kid... (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:39:20 PM EST
    ..to have such a cool grandma.

    Congratulations.


    Parent

    Thanks, Scott - I don't know how cool (none / 0) (#117)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:00:28 PM EST
    either of my grandsons will think I am, but thanks for thinking of me that way!

    Parent
    That's great (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:46:32 PM EST
    congratulations

    Parent
    Your first? (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:50:37 PM EST
    No - this is my second; my older (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:55:40 PM EST
    daughter has a little boy who will be 2 in December.

    Being a grandparent is so great, I hope both girls will give me at least one more each!

    Parent

    Congratulations to (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by KeysDan on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:01:18 PM EST
    mom and dad, grandparents, and, welcome to the grand-baby.  

    Parent
    Thanks, Dan - welcoming a new life into (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:23:50 PM EST
    the world really is one of the most joyous of experiences. I thought it was special to have a child - and it is - I did it twice!  But seeing your own children have children of their own is a blessing and a privilege.  And great fun!

    Parent
    You had your girls (5.00 / 3) (#119)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:02:00 PM EST
    Now you get to experiment with boys!  :)

    Parent
    That's lovely, Anne (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:50:58 PM EST
    Congrats to all!

    Parent
    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:20:59 PM EST
    I have Nana's boys (2) and you now have Grammy's boys.

    The world often looks brand new when you get to see it again through their eyes.

    Parent

    Oh, it really does - it really brings you to (none / 0) (#125)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:27:37 PM EST
    a place of more clarity, simplicity and priority. And it's fun!

    Parent
    Octobrists (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:31:14 PM EST
    are the coolest.

    My wife and daughter were both born in October.

    Congratulations to you and yours, Anne.

    Parent

    This little guy joins his mother, his (none / 0) (#135)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:46:40 PM EST
    grandfather, his uncle, his great uncle and two cousins in having an October birthday!  Doing the math, I guess there's something about January... 😳

    My daughter's just happy her baby has his own birthday!

    Parent

    New Years. As both my borther and I (none / 0) (#140)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:51:34 PM EST
    can attest to.

    Parent
    Congratulations Anne! (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:34:59 PM EST
    and to your family too...nice to have the cousins so close in age.

    Parent
    Thanks, ruffian; I think it's going to (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:49:11 PM EST
    be great fun for these little boys to be able to share a friendship as well as being cousins!

    Parent
    They are close enough (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Zorba on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:24:39 PM EST
    in age that they will be great playmates!  My brothers and I were so close to our own cousins, we were all like siblings.
    Many congratulations and best wishes to all!

    Parent
    Same here (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:35:21 PM EST
    my siblings were all much older so the only "siblings" I had were cousins.  Fortunately I had MANY cousins.  

    Parent
    Congratulations, Grandma! (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:22:32 PM EST
    When new life first presents itself to us, it's a feeling and thrill unlike anything else on this earth. So, revel in the moment and day. Because as you well know from your experience as a parent, you'll need to invoke those memories during those moments when your grandchildren seek to test your patience.

    Aloha, and best wishes to your daughter and son-in-law.

    Parent

    Thanks, Donald...I think the way this (none / 0) (#174)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:03:08 PM EST
    works is that my grandchildren will test their parents' patience - which is the natural order of things - but their relationship with me  (and my husband) will not be loaded with the same kinds of issues.  

    At least, that's what I'm going for, so we'll see!

    Parent

    Such great news, Anne. (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by caseyOR on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:04:31 PM EST
    Congratulations to the new parents, as well as the grandparents.

    Parent
    Congratulations and best wishes to your family. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:23:25 PM EST
    thanks, Angel! It's days like this (none / 0) (#185)
    by Anne on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:36:25 PM EST
    that remind me how blessed I am.

    Parent
    Some things just make you go "wtf?" (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:17:49 PM EST
    MO State Senator Jamilah Nasheed, who is apparently a pretty staunch gun control advocate, gets herself arrested last night in Ferguson to show, she says, how to protest peacefully, but she was packing heat when she was arrested, a loaded 9mm handgun, which, or course, she has every right to carry as she has a CCW permit, and then she refused to take a breathalyzer test, which, if positive, would have made her possession of the loaded gun a felony.

    wtf was she thinking?

    testing all of her rights at the same time? (4.00 / 1) (#131)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:38:27 PM EST
    Ha! (none / 0) (#133)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:42:05 PM EST
    She knew (none / 0) (#134)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:43:17 PM EST
    that the Ferguson police were not going to put one toe over the line on her because she has CNN on speed dial, so she was pushing as far as she could go.

    Parent
    the Senator's objective? (none / 0) (#182)
    by Palli on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:28:30 PM EST
    This was her visit to the protests in the 73 days since Michael Brown was killed. She was there less than 15minutes before she and a companion walked into the middle of the street, knelt in the air blocking traffic with their arms chanting. The seasoned committed protestors wanted no part of the dog and pony show. Several cops came over to arrest her. She was handcuffed and was walked over to the Fire Station not the Police Department.  She reportedly refused bail and was released this morning  for her pre-arrest scheduled press conference. She spoke for  the cameras admonishing "we can not protest violently".  No acknowledgment of the simple fact that all protests have been non-violent have been met with militarized police.  She ended with "that's all I have to get to the hairdressers."

    Parent
    What do you mean? (none / 0) (#163)
    by Yman on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:53:18 PM EST
    wtf was she thinking?

    Are you assuming she was intoxicated at the time, or are you thinking that it's inconsistent for a gun control advocate to own a gun?

    Or both?

    Parent

    Sen Nasheed (none / 0) (#191)
    by Palli on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:30:09 PM EST
    MO is open carry and she has a conceal gun permit; but some  more experienced with these non-violent protests and cognizant of police harassment, provocation and entrapment were surprised to know she could so comfortably introduce a gun into the situation. But as she had, in effect, made a reservation for this arrest, she was safe.

    Speaking of guns, Capt Belmar of the St Louis County Police agreed to a short discussion with protestors after a City County meeting tonight. Good but condescending of him and he remained high and mighty; saying things "remember we don't make the laws legislators do." This was really telling: after about 10 minutes "Someone misbehaved. A protestor asked Chief Belmar take his hand off his gun and Belmar stormed off out of the room." tweeted  @sarakendzior.  Sarcasm was not subtle because as she said in a later tweet the group had be "warned" not to ".misbehave".

    Parent

    Given the chief correctly stated law enforcement (none / 0) (#193)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:33:34 PM EST
    doesn't make laws, legislators do, why is this condescending?

    Parent
    Protestors have serious complaints about (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by Palli on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:47:35 PM EST
    the arbitrary and inconsistently applied "rule" the police forces have made. He never considered these. No legislature wrote a law saying a protestor has to be moving all the time, i.e. the 5 second rule. Yet between Aug 18 and Oct 7 people were arrested for non-compliance with this protest  "rule". However some people were not arrested, some days it was in effect, some days not. ACLU won a preliminary injunction against the technique but Ferguson police (no longer responsible for "protest management" continue to use it even as recently as Monday  Oct. 20th. Other ad hoc rules concern citizen journalists livestreamers, or the clear racial bias for arrests. For example. an I am Darren Wilson Rams fan assaulted a young woman outside of the stadium, ripped a flag on a pole out of her arms and proceeded to use it as a lance against demonstrators. He was not arrested although two protestors, a woman coming to the aid of her daughter who was being bullied by several loud and drunken me were.

     https://twitter.com/stltoday

    Parent

    NO TCM ON DISH (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:20:03 PM EST
    I am officially pi$$ed.-

    Dish Network customers lost access to CNN, Turner Classic Movies, and a handful of other channels late Monday as the result of a contract dispute with Turner Broadcasting.

    Turner Broadcasting, which licenses the channels for distribution to subscription services, pulled the channels from Dish's lineup upon the expiration of its current deal with the satellite service after the two companies were unable to negotiate renewed distribution terms. Other channels removed from Dish include Boomerang, Cartoon Network, CNN en Espanol, Headline News, and truTV.

    I could care less about CNN but this, the run up to Halloween, is the BEST time of the year for TCM.  I had dozens of dozens of things set to record.
    They better fix this quick.

    There's no such thing as global warming? (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:38:06 PM EST
    NYT review of the opening performance (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:46:54 PM EST
    of John Adams' "The Death of Klinghoffer" @ the Metropolian Opera.  Peaceful protests. No violence.

    link

    BTW, Benjamin Britten composed an opera entitled "The Rape of Lucretia."

    Pleaze... (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 at 09:38:58 AM EST
    You do realize that having to ingest "booze" before dating and/or sex is considered intimacy challenged right?

    Never said I had to, but if that's where you want to go, OK, I am intimacy challenged, the good news is I am not alone as no other business flourishes on Friday and Saturday nights like the booze business.  Add in the billions in illegal drug trade and I am definitely in the company of a lot of intimacy challenged folks.

    For someone who claims to have spent her youth partying, you really don't like it, from not wanting grown men in uniform to be able to drink outside the US, to making bold claims about others who like to do what you say you did in your youth.

    The teetotalers convention was wrapped up in the 1930's in case you missed it.  That attitude isn't going to help college kids make better decisions.

    The weather (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 08:37:22 PM EST
    has been amazing here.  For a couple of weeks.  And appears to be for at least the next 7-10 days.   Low 70s day low 50s nights.  Beautiful crisp mornings.  
    It's fall!

    Here as well (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:22:01 PM EST
    It has been beautiful outdoors

    Parent
    Hey Capt (none / 0) (#27)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 11:23:23 PM EST
    I watched that Mirror's Edge Game link you gave. I did feel dizzy and queazy for about the first 5-10 minutes, but then got my visual game feet. No wonder people get into gaming. The art/visuals are fantastic!!

    Parent
    Careful (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:56:11 AM EST
    they are also addictive.  Talking about Saints Row yesterday reminded me of another point that might be good to make about types of games.  Saints Row is an "open world" game.  The other major kind is "linear".  Open world means pretty much what it would sound like.  You drop your self in the world and you can just go at it.  Start smashing things or blowing things up or whatever.  You can have tons of more or less unsupervised fun.   Linear is a game that guides you along a path, a branching path, of options. You have a series of tasks you have to complete before doing the next.
    I love open world games.  The limitation is that with OW the graphics are not as good because there is an entire world that has to be made available all the time.  With linear gameplay you are limited to what is almost like a "set".  A limited area so all the memory resources can be used to make it look better.

    Parent
    There was an interview about Gamergate (none / 0) (#152)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:34:18 PM EST
    on Q (radio) today. Brianna Wu and Soraya Chemaly were interviewed. I have to say I found what they said simply shocking. I've heard that girls and women were not welcomed in the industry but the extent that women get personally threatened and harassed is shocking!

    Parent
    It's a bunch of frat boy nerds (none / 0) (#165)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:00:54 PM EST
    its not unrelated to the sub thread about assault on college campuses.   There is a growing number of women in the industry.  The company of about 200 employees with maybe 100 developers I worked for had probably 5 female developers.   Lots of women in management.  Actually out numbering the men.  Not in the trenches.   But that's changing.
    And as the video mentioned they are surprisingly, at least to me, almost half the consumers.

    Parent
    I have noticed it is not unusual (5.00 / 2) (#179)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:23:26 PM EST
    for women to get bumped up to management...once the employers learn you can read, write, and communicate in addition to code, they tend to push you in that direction. But in companies of that size, the coders generally get paid more, and once the women lose touch with their coding roots, it is hard to get back in.

    Yes, I speak from experience.

    Parent

    Agree, and actually think it is (none / 0) (#168)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:10:03 PM EST
    very related to assault on college campuses.

    Parent
    Ok, it's official...I've watched shows about (none / 0) (#3)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:00:55 PM EST
    meth dealers, serial killers, drug addled doctors, gangsters both modern and oldie timey, lady killers literal and figurative...but the most disgusting character I've ever seen is Carrie Mathison on Homeland. Really am only watching now to see her taken out.

    She'll do ANYTHING to protect her country ... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:05:51 PM EST
    Except ask the local expert in her office if he knows the guy in a picture. that is crossing a line!

    Parent
    Is she the first female (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:15:10 PM EST
    anti-hero?
    It is remarkable how loathsome they are making her.  I guess the bath time scenes were a warning.

    Parent
    Put another way (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:19:22 PM EST
    who do you like least her or Thackery?  At least her drugs addiction is to control her insanity.  

    Parent
    Hmmmm, good question (none / 0) (#8)
    by ruffian on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:27:17 PM EST
    Thackery has a sense of humor and better dialogue in general, so a bit easier to take. Or maybe it is just the Clive Owen effect.

    But man, Carrie seducing someone makes me even more squeamish than Thackery operating.

    Parent

    Poor kid (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:29:30 PM EST
    is so dead.

    Parent
    Ha, true (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:32:26 PM EST
    And on his worst day Thackery would not mentally flirt with drowning an infant.

    Parent
    The Clive Owen effect :) (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:33:09 PM EST
    Seriously (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:37:08 PM EST
    you know Pi is a dead man walking right.  

    It's like the blood on the wedding dress in Dexter.

    Parent

    Thanks for the Pi reminder (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:45:11 AM EST
    I knew I knew that actor.

    I did keep asking myself even as I was watching - would I think she was so horrible if she were a man seducing a woman, or would I brush it off as normal behavior?  I guess it time to start lowering my standards for women. I'm Ready for Hillary!!!

    I guess Lucy on The Knick is the equivalent character, a nice, innocent person we had come to like. But Thackery's seduction of her was played out on many levels over a longer time,  even though he was using her. Even a drug addled ego maniac is more subtle than Carrie.

    Parent

    I think, if I was female (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:47:21 AM EST
    i would like the idea that people are more shocked at that kind of behavior from a woman.   Equality in all things might not be the best goal.

    Parent
    As a feminist (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:23:45 PM EST
    I think it is all the same, same standards.  All sexual relationships have aspects of power in them. I don't think it is healthy to overlook that women can be just as capable of sexual predatory behavior as men.  Maybe they don't exercise it as often, but they are capable.  And I think that behavior is acted out by both sexes for the same reason, control, the desire to control others.

    Parent
    I was thrilled he was cast opposite (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:41:33 PM EST
    Ms. Carrie...and then she reached out and touched him, like right off the bat.  I don't think age was discussed in the story, I assume storywise she is older and in the power seat.  What a way to end one of the first episodes, I was hopping mad.  The last guy she reached out and touched, remember everything that happened to him?  And she claims she loved him :)

    Parent
    Yes, she is the one promising to get him into med (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:51:26 AM EST
    school in London, an ability even he seemed skeptical of. She is int he power seat, so to speak.

    But really, he did nothing to check out the credentials of these two so-called "journalists".

    The whole thing....ugh!  I just hope she did not leave her birth control back home. On the other hand, little Frannie is going to need a sibling that knows how to survive in water, Pi style.

    Parent

    Oh easy....Carrie (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:32:00 PM EST
    Let's keep that women harshly judging other women thing going :)

    Parent
    I really didn't mean exactly that (none / 0) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:34:53 PM EST
    actually if anything it was not about women judging women as much as everyone having subtly different standards for men and women.    

    Parent
    That is often unperceived (none / 0) (#15)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:36:24 PM EST
    Sort of subtle

    Parent
    HA! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:07:38 PM EST
    previously TV

    "Is that okay?" she asks. He doesn't know. She asks if he's done "this" before. I ask God to please kill me before I barf myself inside out.

    She clambers on top of him. He's into it. I am preparing to swan-dive out my office window when the credits mercifully cut away from the nine seconds in heaven that are about to ensue.



    Parent
    Did you see this article (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:10:11 PM EST
    written by an accomplished writer who grew up in Islamabad who says Homeland is seriously distorting the city and presenting a really bigoted view of Pakistan?

    I knew the show was filmed in South Africa this season but I assumed they were accurately portraying it. If you google some photos of the city, she appears to be correct.

    Parent

    I tend to agree with this author (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:28:02 PM EST
    That not all Pakistanis are anti-American.  I can't help reflecting though Jeralyn on how most of the items and points of view you choose to highlight portray the region as anti-American, does that make you bigoted?

    Parent
    pointing out bigotry (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:39:38 PM EST
    is hardly the same thing as endorsing it. If you can't distinguish between criticizing bigotry and endorsing it, the problem is yours, not mine. And be careful with your words, that comment comes close to a personal insult and they are not welcome here. You can disagree with my point of view but do it without personal insults. Casting your opinion in the form of a question doesn't change its character.

    Parent
    You never give a nuanced perspective (2.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:51:57 PM EST
    Of American sentiment in the Middle East

    Parent
    Glad I read that, thanks (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:10:24 AM EST
    We see so little of the real view of places like Islamabad, even on the news. Interesting to see how pretty it is, contrasted with the hell-scape portrayed.

    Also her comments about the accents and language were interesting. It does seem like Showtime could have made a little more effort in that area, since their shows are going to be seen all over the world, by people who know the difference.

    But I caution anyone against taking this show too seriously. It has never strived for accuracy in anything.

    Parent

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:29:29 PM EST
    I wondered how you would process that episode.  Great casting!  It took us awhile for Brody to grow on us, but Suraj Sharma lives in our hearts after Life of Pi.  I sat here and thought, "You evil pig Carrie, I hope you die screaming!"

    I am caught though, I'm watching.  And if she harms one hair on his head....by God!

    Parent

    Never Watched the Show... (none / 0) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:12:13 AM EST
    ...but your comment had me wondering about the character; from Wiki:
    Homeland co-creators Howard Gordon and Alex Gansa initially pitched the show to networks with the Carrie Mathison character being a rather strait-laced CIA officer. Once it wasn't picked up and they moved on to the cable channels, they were able to experiment with more complex and flawed main characters. Carrie was given bipolar disorder and made more of an unreliable narrator. Showtime eventually secured the rights to the show and embraced the more unstable version of the character.

    From the initial conception of the character, Gordon and Gansa targeted Claire Danes to play the lead role of Carrie. The pair were very impressed with her acting prowess, especially in My So-Called Life and Temple Grandin, but were skeptical as to whether she would accept a television role. Indeed, Danes was not necessarily looking to return to television, but she found the script and the character to be very compelling. In addition, the opportunity to be a part of the "renaissance" of high-quality dramas on cable television appealed to her.

    To prepare for the role, Danes had to learn much about the CIA, as well as the nuances of playing someone who has bipolar disorder. Danes' personal research into the CIA touched on such topics as its internal culture, agency politics, and the implications of being a female agent. She also was granted access to CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia, and was able to personally consult with the female CIA officer whom the Carrie Mathison character was loosely based on.

    That last sentence is what caught my eye.  I had no idea Wiki has entries for characters, but HERE it is.

    Parent

    I have to hope it was (none / 0) (#132)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:41:39 PM EST
    so loosely based as to be barely recognizable. If I thought that was a realistic portrayal of female CIA agents I would be profoundly disturbed.

    Parent
    Supreme Court Dogs (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 09:50:14 PM EST
    this video is funny

    But what they did is better.  They put many minutes of a Supreme Court populated by dogs on the Internet with no sound track so all future recorded SC sessions may be set to talking dogs instead of those boring drawings.  This is brilliant.  More so because you know it WILL be done.  

    Yes! can't wait to see some results. (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:59:09 AM EST
    I am appalled at myself for liking it so much. In my defense, I actually can listen to argument recordings without visuals. But with dogs? Even better!

    Parent
    The Texas candidate (none / 0) (#19)
    by christinep on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:05:17 PM EST
    I read today about the Texas Repub candidate for Governor, Greg Abbott.  It seems that Mr. Abbott was queried by the San Antonio Express editorial board as to whether he would defend the state in a hypothetical ban on interracial marriage.  Abbott dodged in response; and, when a member of the Express sought clarification, he answered directly that he did not and would not answer the question.  

    I wonder if the refusal or inability to answer such a question put by the paper's editorial board is more indicative of his own position or of the perceived position of those whose votes he seeks.  In any event, I wondered about this installment of the not-answering-questions bit will be given the same amount of attention that Kentucky Senatorial candidate Alison Grimes received for simply not answering a public question posed during her recent debate with Senator Mitch McConnell when asked for whom she voted in the last Presidential election.  I wonder if the Texas Repub gubernatorial candidate, Abbott, who leads by double digits will be called on the carpet or--for that matter--whether Abbott's responsive non-response will be mentioned anywhere but in today's TPM???

    I'm certain many of Abbott's supporters would (none / 0) (#42)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:54:56 AM EST
    love a ban on interracial marriages, but his refusal to answer probably has more to do with his own personal belief system.  I'm telling you, he is a Neanderthal who wants to go back centuries.  He will be a worse governor than Rick Perry.  It's shameful that the people of Texas support this guy.  And wait until you learn more about the men who will be elected Lt. Governor and Attorney General.  These men will comprise the most far-right administration in Texas history.  Scares me terribly.  

    As far as anyone else discussing Abbott's refusal to answer the editorial board's question, I doubt it will be a blip on anyone's radar.

    Parent

    This problem (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:24:13 AM EST
    reaches far outside Texas. It's a disease that infected the entire GOP. The GOP only answers to the far far right in this county.

    Parent
    Do we consider (none / 0) (#54)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:40:57 AM EST
    Latinos as a "different race"?  If so, wasn't this a completely absurd question to ask Abbott, since he is married to a Latina?

    Here's the actual wording:

    It didn't take Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott any time at all to decide that not answering that question was the best course during a meeting with the San Antonio Express-News Editorial Board.

    "Right now, if there was a ban on interracial marriage, that's already been ruled unconstitutional," Abbott pointed out. "And all I can do is deal with the issues that are before me ... The job of an attorney general is to represent and defend in court the laws of their client, which is the state Legislature, unless and until a court strikes it down."

    When I said I wasn't clear if he was saying he would have defended a ban on interracial marriage, he said, "Actually, the reason why you're uncertain about it is because I didn't answer the question. And I can't go back and answer some hypothetical question like that."

    Asked about the similarities some see between the ban on gay marriage and past prohibitions on interracial marriage, Abbott said, "Well, the Supreme Court has disagreed with that" by holding that sexual orientation isn't due protected-class status in the way that race is.




    Parent
    touchy subject but, (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:57:05 AM EST
      I've always considered "Latino" a cultural or linguistic/geographical label rather than a racial one.

      Some Latinos are caucasian. Some are African. some are natives of the western hemisphere. Some are a combination of two or three of the above.

     

    Parent

    I think so too (none / 0) (#61)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:06:32 AM EST
    But as much as I think Greg Abbott is dangerous and a complete tool, it was a stupid "gotcha" question and shouldn't have been asked.  Why not ask him, "If slavery were still legal, would you defend that?"

    Parent
    Do you not think (none / 0) (#62)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:12:13 AM EST
     a person's answer (or non-answer as the case may be) to a hypothetical question can reveal important considerations that are very relevant to a voter's perception of his suitability for office.

      Although a governor cannot reinstate slavery or outlaw interracial marriage, I for one, would be much less inclined to vote for a candidate who gave me the impression it was only that pesky constitution that restrained him from working to do so.

    Parent

    Sometimes (none / 0) (#67)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:49:42 AM EST
    But I don't see how this plays into any workings in his mind.  The "correct" answer for him to give would have been the one the Wisconsin AG candidate gave (highlighted in my link) - "Well, if it was the law of the state, my job as AG is to enforce the law, while it is the legislature's job to change the law, so, yes, even if I personally felt it was distasteful, I probably would try and enforce it."  The question was not, "What do you believe personally,"  it was, "Would you say you would do your job even if it was unpopular to do so, or would you give me the politically correct answer?"

    But that would have been political suicide, and since the issue they were discussing had been ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court almost 50 years ago, it's a dumb question.

    Parent

    "correct" (none / 0) (#72)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:08:19 AM EST
     is a subjective judgment. There are numersous variations that some people would consider "correct," Inclding bit not limited to:

    He could give a one word no/yes answer.

     He could answer no, I would not defend a law banning interracial marriages regardless of it being duly enacted and signed by the Governor because I believe such a law is morally indefensible and  elected I will be   constitutional officer  I believe to be  vested with authority to choose not to defend such a law on the basis of its moral repugnance.

      He could answer no, on the basis that in applying my professional judgment and knowledge of the law, I would determine it would be a unwise waste of resources because I don't believe there is any possibility such a law could be successfully defended. (Nothing would prevent him from also stating his personal belief and some might think it incorrect not to do because it's wishy-washy)

    He could answer yes, on your rationale that he feels duty bound to defend laws enacted and signed even if he personally believes they are wrong or misguided. (Again, he could state his personal belief if he wanted)

     He could also answer yes, stating that he believes interracial marriage is wrong and that states rights are paramount and them pointy heads in Washington have no lawful power to prevent us good folks in Texas from outlawing the abomination of interracial marriage.

    Parent

    Which is why (none / 0) (#78)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:19:17 AM EST
    I put it in quotes.

    The point being - it's a stupid hypothetical, since a law banning interracial marriage was held unconstitutional almost 50 years ago.  Why not ask about other laws made unconstitutional 50 years ago?

    Parent

    I'd have no problem with that or (none / 0) (#82)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:28:39 AM EST
      with asking about laws declared constitutional 50 or so years ago, such as the Civil Rights and Voting Right Acts.

      The reality is, even if slowly and imperfectly even constitutional law can change precisely because "the people" elect persons with certain beliefs and priorities. Either directly through amendments or through new or shifting interpretations of the existing text handed down by judges who are appointed and confirmed by persons who get elected. Also, who we elect and their positions plays an important  determining which issues end up in court creating the possibility of change in the constitutional doctrine governing those issues.

    Parent

    JB (none / 0) (#83)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:30:04 AM EST
    You mentioned the other day you thought he was going to lose, why ?

    I hope he does, but I have seen anything that would lead me to believe Davis will win.

    Parent

    No, I think he's going to win the election (none / 0) (#130)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:36:07 PM EST
    But he will lose the challenge to upholding the same-sex marriage ban.

    Parent
    FYI (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:22:37 AM EST
    I wasn't speaking to the particular questions that Abbott answered more so just to the fact that he panders to the far right like most of the GOP these days. I mean this is the same guy who was running around with Ted Nugent.

    Parent
    The Dallas Morning News (none / 0) (#43)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:55:57 AM EST
    is writing about it.

    And they endorsed Abbott.

    Parent

    Nice to see (none / 0) (#96)
    by christinep on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 01:45:57 PM EST
    that this Dallas columnist is writing about the matter; and, that the columnist is presenting the key question about an elected official's obligation in the face of a moral matter.  Thanks for the link, jbindc ... and, I hope it is treated elsewhere in the days to come.

    Parent
    Good for him and other politicians (none / 0) (#44)
    by leftwig on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:29:13 AM EST
    that refuse to answer stupid/irrelevant questions.

    Parent
    Allison Grimes (none / 0) (#45)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:39:54 AM EST
    Refused to answer that question two different times - it wasn't just a debate question.

    Parent
    If you haven't seen (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 10:24:29 PM EST
    the series Pablo Escobar: Patron de Mal, it started replaying last week on Unimas. With an antenna I get English captions (on xfinity cable, there are only Spanish captions.) I'm watching again tonight, and it's really the beginning, so if you start now, you won't have missed much -- the first week is about his childhood. In tonight's episode, he encounters cocaine for the first time while working for a liquor and cigarette smuggler. It's really a good series, it airs Monday to Friday at 9pm ET. This will be my third time watching it. There are 70 episodes. Two of the show's top writers and producers are the children of Medellin cartel victims. One writer's mother was held hostage for seven months. The other, Camilo Cano, is the son of a prominent newspaper editor killed by Escobar's men.

    Next month, "En la Boca Del Lobo" is starting, the story of the fall of the Cali Cartel. I just saw a preview and it looks good. It was filmed in Colombia and is based on based on the book by William Rempel, "At the Devil's Table: The Untold Story of the Insider Who Brought Down the Cali Cartel."

    about great visual artists who actually were (none / 0) (#28)
    by ZtoA on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 11:34:02 PM EST
    lifelong a*holes -- Lucian Freud and, of course, Caravaggio.

    "The new research shows that Caravaggio didn't just lash out after a game of tennis but that he was avenging his honour in a way that was utterly in keeping with the culture of the Rome of his day.
    "One of the fascinating things is the discovery that particular wounds in Roman street fights meant particular things. If a man insulted another man's reputation he might have his face cut. If a man insulted a man's woman he would get his penis cut off."
    The barber surgeon's report, made on the night that Tomassoni died, has also been re-examined by experts in the Italian art world. Monsignor Sandro Corradini, another historian who has combed the Vatican archives, said that the document showed that Tomassoni bled to death through the femoral artery in his groin, having been floored during the duel.


    All I know is (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:04:04 PM EST
    when your work commands seven and eight figures, there's not much danger that your career will be wrecked by some internet pissants railing about nihilist-chic sadism masquerading as art.

    Parent
    A bit of perspective . . . (5.00 / 2) (#136)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:46:47 PM EST
    but that he was avenging his honour in a way that was utterly in keeping with the culture of the Rome of his day.

    So are you saying that Romans of that day were lifelong a$$holes? Or is this just supposed to be more defense for the dude that shot the dog for no great artistic* reason?

    *btw, the is no great artistic reason for shooting a dog that was not suffering.

    Parent

    Caravaggio tried to castrate a rival (none / 0) (#154)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:40:23 PM EST
    and the pimp of a prostitute he liked, but it went badly and he killed him. link  BTW my comment was NOT about Otterness.

    "The documents say that he probably wanted to castrate him if it was a question of a woman. But Tomassoni probably moved and he got him in the femoral artery."

    After being charged with the death of Tomassoni, he fled to Malta and thereafter to Porto Ercole, in Italy. It was there, legend has it, that he died.
    The new revelations about his murder of Tomassoni have also led scholars to question the circumstances of Caravaggio's death. Some now believe that he might have been murdered by relatives of Tomassoni seeking revenge for his death.


    Parent
    Whatever (none / 0) (#143)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:58:56 PM EST
    I can't believe you are still trying to defend or minimize this. You can start throwing out examples of all sorts of other a$$holes. It doesn't make Otterness any less of one.

    And even though I don't have the many thousands of dollars necessary to buy one of his sculptures I can say without equivocation I wouldn't pay two cents to even see an exhibition. Because -- in addition to said a$$holiness -- his artwork bores me.

    So you think he's a great artist. I think he is a sadistic, talentless poseur. Does either your or my opinion matter in the scheme of things?

    But this conversation was days and days ago. Why are you hanging on to it?

    Or, if you aren't still trying to excuse Otterness then what are you talking about, anyway?

    Parent

    Actuall sj, I was not thinking of Otterness at all (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:28:23 PM EST
    I went to a book club meeting with a bunch of women artists last night and we discussed "Breakfast with Lucian". He was such a good painter but in person he treated people very badly. Caravaggio came up too for discussion since he was a murder. A couple of others too.

    It was interesting to hear all of their takes on being a good artist while being a real jerk (there was mention of a couple of female artists who were jerks too). We did not agree much of the time, but that was exciting too.

    The discussion was NOT focused on money - more on the art and person. Freud was not very successful for most of his career.  His grandfather was Sigmund, yet Lucian was very anti-semetic. Even in his later career and life he lived and worked in cheap crappy places. He did, however like to have very wealthy wives, girlfriends, mistresses, flings, and then he never cared for his many children - never would meet with some of them.

    One woman said that in the case of Lucian Freud, that he seemed like he could not feel any empathy but that might have helped him with his insanely intense focus he brought to his work. I thought it was interesting.

    Parent

    I have known a few (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:35:51 PM EST
    intensively creative people in my life.   Most of them were not the most likable or accessible people.  
    I think it goes with the territory.  Extreme driven creativity is almost like a kind of mental illness or disability.  
    Like being a hopeless alcoholic or a functioning alcoholic.


    Parent
    From what I saw with Mirror's Edge (none / 0) (#155)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:44:23 PM EST
    the designers of gaming programs can be intensely creative. And they are much more popular than other forms of visual art. Gamergate players (and maybe the developers) seem to have a few personality flaws tho.

    Parent
    HA! Ya Think? (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:48:09 PM EST
    did you look at Assassins Creed?

    Parent
    Fyi (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:18:15 PM EST
    "open world"vs"linear"

    Mirrors Edge is an open world game.  Assassins Creed is linear.  Good example of the different kinds levels of detail.

    Parent

    Big favorite in this house (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:33:07 PM EST
    And all of its many versions.  Paid full price for all of it and ordered in advance for the free upgrades.

    What I find most intimidating is the depth and breadth of history that games are capable of teaching while the kids seem to be having a good time.  I sat there in wide eyed amazement as my son outlined the 100 Years War for me with complete details.  I think it lives in his long term memory now. Someone needs to harness that teaching concept for something serious, like engineering.  Did I just imply that History isn't serious?

    Parent

    "Assassins Creed" ? not a very friendly (none / 0) (#159)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:23:56 PM EST
    title for a game. I just watched this.  Have to say the visuals are pretty damn amazing. And talk about $$ in the arts!

    Parent
    Ha. That's awsum (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:33:10 PM EST
    fir the record, arcane tho it is, the "customizable avatar" Thing is sort of a point.  If a lame one.  A customizable avatar is a huge amount of work.  Adding a female one would have cost millions.   That said, should they have done it?  Yes, probably.

    Thanks for pointing that out.  I was completely unaware of the issue.   In truth, I'm not much if a gamer.

    I only suggested it because of the visuals.

    Parent

    What's a few more million (none / 0) (#166)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:06:12 PM EST
    when they said the game took hundreds of millions to develop? I thought their point about leaving women assassins out of the game does not help the game with female gamers, and will, over time, not help the game's sales, was a good point.

    I've never gamed. But my nephew does and lots of his late-teenaged friends.

    Parent

    For the record (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:26:22 PM EST
    i reversed that.  AC is open world, ME is linear.

    D'oh

    Parent

    So you're just (none / 0) (#162)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:42:26 PM EST
    talking about random a$$hole artists then?

    Weird.

    But wev. The topic leaves me feeling a little spiritually greasy.

    Parent

    Makes me and everyone I know feel spiritually (none / 0) (#164)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:00:50 PM EST
    greasy too!  This is a  hot topic among artists. My facebook feed has three articles on different artists today and their flaws. Picasso had a few and there's some ongoing problems at the Picasso Museum. I'm about halfway thru this article on it.

    Parent
    You might want to let folks know (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:17:55 PM EST
    in your original comment when you are bringing thoughts over from your FB feed/hot discussion among artists, as it tends to look like you are continuing a previous conversation or just pulling a random conversation in from who knows where . . .

    Picasso is forgiven for all sins. He was a Dalmatian owner.

    Giants, 1-0 top of the first.

    Parent

    Sorry about the confusion nystray (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:19:07 PM EST
    I have not thought about Otterness since the last thread where he was discussed. I thought I was being clear that my comment in this thread was about Lucian Freud and Caravaggio. But maybe I was not clear enough. As I said, artists' flaws/strengths (?) is a hot topic among my IRL and facebook friends at the moment. Something is in the air.

    With comments here on gaming/sexism/abuse and assaults on college campuses I thought this might be part of the social conversation(s) about what is "great" and what is "destructive". Such a complex set of issues.

    Parent

    He also owned Dachshunds so he gets a pass (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:19:31 PM EST
    from me as well.

    Go Giants!!

    Parent

    Go Giants. For Bruce Bochy. (none / 0) (#170)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:19:25 PM EST
    3-0 still top of 1st :) (5.00 / 2) (#171)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:21:54 PM EST
    OMG I just got my property tax bill (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:42:43 PM EST
    Portlandia, around 10:45-11:10.  Can't make a new comment because links don't work for me on this computer for a new comment.

    So much for being out of debt and owning my house. (not really complaining about where my taxes go - just the $$ of the bill is always a shock and it goes up so much every year).

    Parent

    Ours remains low (none / 0) (#195)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:52:13 PM EST
    But looking at that NYTimes map of the regions where people are having the most difficult time making ends meet clarifies why.  Looks like almost the entire South missed any kind of economic recovery.

    Parent
    I have been off (none / 0) (#29)
    by MKS on Mon Oct 20, 2014 at 11:55:11 PM EST
    the news grid, so to speak, busy with other stuff.....

    And I look around and the big news is about Ebola and some guy running across the White House lawn?

    There are real issues out there, but the focus on the trivial has really reached a new level.

    Nope, no longer The Politics of Crime (4.00 / 3) (#31)
    by NYShooter on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:38:18 AM EST
    Just Roger Ebert reruns....24/7

    Parent
    If I remember correctly (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:11:49 AM EST
    comments about recipes and cooking also make you grumpy.  Chill dude.  Relax a live a little.  Not every blog comment necessarily needs to be aimed at solving the worlds problems.
    And even if they were, they wouldn't.

    Parent
    Bravo. (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 06:04:06 AM EST
    Hey, I got zapped because people were complaining (none / 0) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:32:00 PM EST
    about my two comments re man made global warming.

    Times do change.

    Parent

    jim are you a sock puppet? (5.00 / 4) (#190)
    by fishcamp on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:48:19 PM EST
    Sorry fishcamp (none / 0) (#199)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:10:42 PM EST
    if that's a compliment, thanks. If it's an insult you missed the mark because I can't figure out why you ask.

    But, in case you want to know who I am, I've been around here since March of 2003 and have had many enjoyable debates. I describe myself as a Social Liberal because of my positions on Gay Rights, minority rights, women's right to choose, LWOP, drug laws, single payer health care.... I am a strong believer in national defense, very defined and enforced borders, and I believe we are engaged in war with radical Islam. I also do not trust the government and believe that the man made global warming blather is a hoax pushed by various individuals trying to obtain money and power.

    Since I don't agree 100% with some here they have a tendency to become unglued and follow me around like my shadow. This is not just a characteristic of some on the Left it is also a characteristic of some on the Right.

    I suspect that if we sat down over a brew we'd agree on much and agree to disagree on much.

    Parent

    White House intruder did more than run across (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:16:11 AM EST
    the lawn:

    USA Today

    Parent

    We saw "Kill the Messenger" tonight. (none / 0) (#34)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:54:33 AM EST
    Given the film's subject matter, I think you'd like it a lot, Jeralyn. (As will more than a few TL regulars, too.)

    It's based on the true story about the rise and fall of Gary Webb, an investigative journalist for the San Jose Mercury-News who broke the story about how the CIA was turning a blind eye to drug dealers because the profits were being used to arm the Contras in Nicaragua -- and for his efforts, was destroyed both personally and professionally by the CIA and the east coast media elite.

    Webb allegedly took his own life in 2004. I used the term "allegedly" because although his death was ruled a suicide by the coroner, it takes considerable skill to put two bullets inside your own skull.

    Well, I suppose it could've happened that way and further, those closest to Webb cited his severe depression at the time, and they are strongly convinced that he committed suicide.

    But I just find it interesting that a decade after Webb's death, the eastern establishment still fears the inherent power of his story. The Washington Post's Jeff Leen recently felt compelled to resume his paper's despicable smear campaign against Webb from 18 years ago. For his part, Esquire magazine's Charles Pierce was not amused by Leen's hit job on the deceased:

    "It was Webb's contention that the import of Contra-peddled cocaine into Los Angeles helped kickstart the crack epidemic in that city. (It also, more or less, was the point at which many of the early attacks on Webb's work came.) This was a time when, to finance those same wars, the U.S. government was selling missiles to the Mullahs, so you will forgive me if I am not surprised that the Agency was paying for them by helping to mule dope into this country. With all due respect to Leen, I started listening to Bob Parry on this stuff 30 years ago, and I see no reason to stop now."

    But I digress. Anyway, if Jeremy Renner doesn't receive at least an Oscar nomination for Best Actor, I'll be very surprised. Simply put, his ferocious performance as Webb is pure tour de force. I highly recommend "Kill the Messenger."

    Aloha.

    Definitely on the list (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:04:09 AM EST
    i like Renner a lot.  And the trailer looked great.

    Parent
    The Grand Wurlitzer always (none / 0) (#124)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:25:16 PM EST
    had a lot of allies and assets amongst and around the somnolent Beltway.

    Google Carl Bernstein + CIA + journalists.

    The Company's history of making deals with deals with the devil as the theoretical lesser-of-two-evils goes back to the OSS WWII days. Mafiosi, Cuban ex-pat terrorists, Golden Triangle smugglers, one corrupt, brutal, thug after another from Tehran to Santiago..

    "Gaze into the abyss long enough, and it gazes back"

    As if people like Bill Casey and Ollie the eternal Eagle Scout were ever going to bat an eyelash about Ronnie's "freedom fighters" dumping a little blow on the doorsteps of the despicable Cadillac-driving welfare mothers..  

     

    Parent

    re Gitmo release (none / 0) (#37)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:22:26 AM EST
    Glad another prisoner is being released. He has been held since Aug. 2002. I wonder what the Saudi "rehabilitation program" consists of, for someone held in those conditions for 12 years?

    Troubles me that they still did not have a solution for the 2nd prisoner before the board. Looks like he will be a candidate for SuperMax stateside if/when that starts being implemented.

    Speculation in Michael Brown case (none / 0) (#39)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:04:03 AM EST
    Former St. Louis County Police Chief Tim Fitch believes more information will be leaked out to the media by a government source. Fitch says this strategy has been used before, "Assuming that the article is correct my belief is that there will be future articles written as probably from the same federal source that will let out a little information each time as it gets closer to the actual announcement of the verdict or charges or no charges."

    Fitch believes the leaked information is an attempt to let some people down slowly, "It was an intentional release with someone familiar with the federal side of the investigation, in my opinion, for the sole purpose of preparing the community for what may be seen for many as bad news, that there's not going to be any federal charges." link

    The other speculation is that McCulloch will delay announcing the GJ verdict until after the 11/5 election to reduce the verdicts impact on Steve Stenger's bid for St. Louis County Executive.

    Doubt that the turning the heat up slowly when cooking a live frog approach will be successful in this situation.

    Chief Fitch (none / 0) (#63)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:13:21 AM EST
    said that in a situation like this jurors would rely more on physical evidence than personal testimony.

    So how does he come up with his conclusion that there was a struggle for the gun or that Wilson was "pinned" in the SUV based upon the physical evidence???

    The NYT story says that 1]Brown's blood on the gun, 2]Brown's blood on the interior of the door panel, and 3]Brown's blood on the officer's shirt 4]and Wilson fired two shots from the gun.

    How does he get a struggle for the gun from that???

     All that evidence means is that Wilson shot Brown in the upper arm at close range and his blood flew back on the gun, on Wilson's shirt, and the inside panel of the door window where witnesses say a tussle took place. That's all that means.

    It doesn't mean that Brown was inside the SUV as the word "pinned" is intended to imply -- only that his arm was at or inside that window -- the same arm that Johnson said Wilson had a hold of and was pulling on.

    For 2 months the police have been saying that the witnesses didn't see what they saw -- one claiming that Brown was hit and the other that the bullet missed him.

     Now we find out that they were both right since there were two shots fired -- one hitting and one missing.  She described the one  that missed and he described the other that hit Brown.

    Furthermore Dorian Johnson's statement that he saw blood coming down Brown's shirt which has been mocked for 2 months as a figment of his imagination, is also corroborated by the NYT forensics.

    So actually this new evidence corroborates the witnesses not the police fiction.

    How all this favors the officer not being charged is baffling other than it indicates the extent the prosecutors are willing to go to reach a conclusion contrary to the evidence.

    Parent

    Couple of points of contention (none / 0) (#109)
    by leftwig on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:37:42 PM EST
    • The NYT article does not say that Wilson fired 2 shots from inside the vehicle.  IT says that 2 shots were fired inside the vehicle.  I don't beleive we the public has any specific information on how the gun went off either time.

    • The recent article seems to have contradciting statements on Fitch's position.  From this statement, I don't think he's stating that he knows a struggle from the gun occurred: "If there was a struggle inside that car over a firearm, it sounds to me like Officer Wilson would have been justified in taking the action he did if he pulled the trigger and actually shot Michael Brown in the vehicle area," Fitch says.

    • I don't see how a revelation that there were 2 shots fired from inside the vehicle bolsters witnesses who made statements about hearing one shot fired.  DJ for example says one shot is fired and hits Brown and they take off running, he ducks behind a car then sees/hears Wilson fire a shot(s) at a fleeing Brown.  I have't seen any report of Johnson saying a second shot was fired inside the vehicle.  Maybe just an oversight and I don't think this point discredits his account much if at all (shot could have occurred as he was running away and had different things on his mind), but I fail to see how it adds to his credibility or the credibility of other witnesses who detail one shot in the cruiser.

    • I recall DJ being mocked for much of his story, but I don't recall anyone saying the shot(s) fired at the SUV didn't hit Brown or that DJ couldn't have seen that.  

    • The new evidence doesn't really discredit any particular witness statment (we don't know how much blood there was inside the vehcile or an estimate of how close the gun was to Brown when the first shot hit him, but Browns blood being on Wilson, the gun and inside the police SUV does make the second hand account relayed through Wilsons friend seem quite plausible.  Certainly looks much better for Wilsons account than there not being any of that evidence found.


    Parent
    Current wisdom being reported here (none / 0) (#127)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:31:36 PM EST
    is that Brown's blood inside the car will support Wilson's version of events that the killing was justified and there will be no indictment or any action against Wilson at the Federal level.

    Personally, I never believed that there would be any indictment even before this latest "leak." Police officers are never indicted in St. Louis County for shooting people.

    Parent

    In St Louis County (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by jondee on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:49:00 PM EST
    or seemingly anywhere else.

    Maybe an indictment would possibly get handed down if a cop were caught on camera - close-up from different angles - shooting a (white) cop or a (white) prosecutor or a prominent (white) politician..

    Parent

    Does your last sentence mean (none / 0) (#128)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:33:28 PM EST
    he should be indicted?

    Parent
    I don't think that Wilson (none / 0) (#139)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:50:29 PM EST
    was justified in killing Brown after he ran away from the car.

    Witness statements about what happened after he ran from the car consistently state he was trying to surrender when he was shot.

    What I also believe is that McCulloch will not indict a police officer for killing someone. He might conduct a show GJ but it will be structured in such a way that it will result in a no bill. After all, according to McCulloch, they are nothing but bums.

    This, of course, is my opinion based on his background and past occurrences.  It is an opinion shared by others, both black and white, who are familiar with McCulloch.

    Parent

    No they don't (none / 0) (#145)
    by jbindc on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:07:48 PM EST
    Witness statements about what happened after he ran from the car consistently state he was trying to surrender when he was shot.

    At least one witness is caught on video at the exact moment indicating that Brown was charging at Wilson.

    Parent

    And here is the link (none / 0) (#177)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:21:36 PM EST
    Where is THAT? (none / 0) (#192)
    by Yman on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:30:46 PM EST
    It certainly wasn't the video Jim linked.

    Parent
    hit the news stands says he was not trying to surrender but rather he was gesturing his disbelief at Wilson.

    Fair enough regarding the rest. I wonder if there aren't a bunch of details we don't know yet.

    Parent

    Many share a complete lack of trust in McCulloch (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:53:06 PM EST
    when it comes to indicting police officers for killing someone. Along with that lack of trust is the belief that the details that will insure a no bill will be given great emphasis and conflicting details will not be presented or minimized.  It has happened in the past and many believe it will happen once again.

    Think about it. If reports are true, the entire event happened in minutes. Why did Wilson testify for four hours? No way it would take 4 hours to testify about what occurred during the few minutes between when he encountered Brown and when he shot him. So what did he talk about?

    I wish that McCulloch had been replaced by a special prosecutor and a GJ had been conducted in the normal way. It is possible that the results would be the same, but there would be some chance that people might think that the verdict was based on actual events.  

    Parent

    Have you ever given a deposition or (2.00 / 2) (#181)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:24:05 PM EST
    testified??

    Why did Wilson testify for four hours?

    They will go back over and over and over and over each and every detail.

    Parent

    Yes I given a deposition (none / 0) (#196)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:57:33 PM EST
    about  activities that covered a couple of years rather than a few minutes. It took nowhere never 4 hours.

    Of course, if Wilson told his life story, before and after he shot Brown, it might take 4 hours for him to present his entire defense.

    Parent

    Correction (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:01:57 PM EST
    It took nowhere near 4 hours.

    Parent
    How could we possibly not know all the details (none / 0) (#167)
    by oculus on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:08:32 PM EST
    yet?  Haven't we been discussing the details for weeks?  [snk.]

    Parent
    Your points are well taken -- (none / 0) (#149)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:26:31 PM EST
    However if that is all the blood that was found -- in those three places -- then that pretty much rules out his being inside the vehicle at the time of the shot.

    If he was inside that vehicle when shot --particularly in his upper right arm -- then some of his blood would have been found on the front seat and probably Wilson's pants.

    It's not always what evidence is found but what is not found.

    Parent

    You cannot be that clueless, (none / 0) (#151)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:32:55 PM EST
    and this is far from the first time.

    The only explanation is that you are purposely making comments that you know to be false and misleading.

    The forensics tests showed Mr. Brown's blood on the gun, as well as on the interior door panel and on Officer Wilson's uniform.


    Parent
    Conflicting reports on Turkey's aid to Kurds (none / 0) (#40)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:13:21 AM EST
    What Turkey is saying:

    SURUC, Turkey (AP) -- In a significant shift, Turkey's top diplomat announced on Monday that his country is helping Iraqi Kurdish fighters cross into Syria to "give support" to fellow Kurds defending the border town of Kobani from Islamic State militants.

    The remarks by Turkey's Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, at a press conference in Ankara, followed the announcement by the U.S. military that it had for the first time airdropped weapons, ammunition and medical supplies provided by Kurdish authorities in Iraq to the Kurdish forces in Kobani.

    What Kurd's are saying:

    "They have not given us any orders to move our units," said the spokesman, Halgurd Hekmat. "But we are waiting, and we are ready."

    The Kurdish activists in Kobani said there was no sign of any peshmerga forces.
    ...
    Iso, the journalist in Kobani, said by telephone that he had not seen any peshmerga -- he called out to a group of Kurdish fighters with him if they had seen any, and they could be heard answering "No!" over the line.

    Echoing the views of many Kurds, who are deeply suspicious of Turkey, Iso said the foreign minister's statements had "nothing to do with reality."

    Source

    These may be the only Peshmerga the Kurds have seen:

    Islamic State militants advanced on the Iraqi town of Qara Tappa on Monday disguised as Kurdish peshmerga fighters, Kurdish security sources said.


    IS gets weapons meant for Kurds (none / 0) (#102)
    by MO Blue on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:29:47 PM EST
    BEIRUT (AP) -- Islamic State group fighters seized at least one cache of weapons airdropped by U.S.-led coalition forces that were meant to supply Kurdish militiamen battling the extremist group in a border town, activists said Tuesday.

    The cache of weapons included hand grenades, ammunition and rocket-propelled grenade launchers, according to a video uploaded by a media group loyal to the Islamic State group.

    The video appeared authentic and corresponded to The Associated Press' reporting of the event. The Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which bases its information on a network of activists on the ground, said the militants had seized at least one cache. link



    Parent
    What happened to Peter G's (none / 0) (#41)
    by fishcamp on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 07:34:08 AM EST
    sock puppet game?  My one eyed bear sock puppet is sitting on the handlebars of my exercycle, staring at me to get up and start riding.  I had never heard of sock puppets in blogs before, since this is my first blog.  If Capt. Howdy is really Uncle Chip's puppeteer,congratulations.  Are there more sock puppets on TL?

    I would not have made that comment (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:59:20 AM EST
    without assuming everyone would know it was a joke.  I hope everyone did.  Apologies Chip, no offense.
    If I made a sock puppet it would be one that whined constantly about entertainment comments.  
    I doubt very much there are any here.  I think there might have been an attempt recently but it seemed to be nipped in the bud.
    Maybe I'm wrong about that but it seemed that way.

    Parent
    Thanks for clearing that up Howdy. (none / 0) (#53)
    by fishcamp on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:40:54 AM EST
    It does seem several did believe you yesterday, since you got eight fivers on that admission.  It was an intriguing situation that ended rapidly.  I do believe, if anyone could do it, it would be you, with your knowledge of several subjects.  It must be very time consuming to be both a sock puppet and the puppeteer.

    Parent
    Thanks (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:44:30 AM EST
    ....I think.

    But I'm pretty sure not all 8 were because they believed it.

    Parent

    I often rate for humor, which was the case for (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Angel on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:08:42 AM EST
    your comment about creating Uncle Chip.  I thought your comment was really funny [ doesn't take much to make me laugh. :) ]

    Parent
    Yeah, me too (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:19:23 AM EST
    I didn't believe it, but it made me grin.

    I wanted to play along with Peter G and think of some good sock puppet pairings...but they all involved jimppj and peter G got there first.

    Parent

    To Be honest (none / 0) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:46:50 AM EST
    i have thought it would be fun to create a humor troll persona.

    You should not be encouraging me.

    Parent

    I would be the easiest of just (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:07:29 AM EST
    about any commenter here to disguise.  All I would have to do  is pay attention to (act like I care about ) things like spelling, punctuation, capitalization and sentence structure and no one would ever recognize me.


    Parent
    "Yes means Yes" consent laws (none / 0) (#57)
    by Slado on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 09:54:16 AM EST
    Reason Magazine

    Jeralyn, interested in your thoughts on this new "epidemic" and the laws being passed on campuses to combat it.

    Seems a bit over the top.

    Over the top? (5.00 / 3) (#93)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:43:13 PM EST
    Perhaps, but maybe when guys quit saying "well, she didn't say "no"", we will find the 'yes mean yes' laws unnecessary  . . . .

    Parent
    I kinda see the need for it actually (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by sj on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:48:14 PM EST
    I expect that CeeLo Green isn't the only Neanderthal that thinks
    'Women Who Have Really Been Raped Remember'
    After all, an unconscious woman hasn't exactly said "No".

    Parent
    I see a need also, sadly. (none / 0) (#142)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:54:59 PM EST
    Walking Dead? (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:02:09 AM EST
    Btw.  My first reaction to that was the same as yours.  But after I read a little I'm evolving.  I guess.  There really is a huge problem with assault on college campuses.  Not sure this is the best solution but a conversation is definitely needed.

    Parent
    To me (5.00 / 2) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:24:24 AM EST
    the problem is that it is NOT being discussed. It's like race. If we in this country pretend there's no problem then there's apparently no problem.

    Parent
    I agree with you (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:45:43 AM EST
    And it is odd to me because we have been willing to discuss rape and sexual assault in our culture in the past, but not this form?  It reminds me of the hush hush in the military about sexual assault and rape, and the leaders just would not address the specific issues and seek remedies until they had become deeply publicly embarrassed numerous times.

    My husband said that training in the military now discusses that under the influence of alcohol, it is best for all to not engage in sexual activity.  Being a little drunk is not considered a good time to be consenting. In Korea they have strict curfews now and must be ALONE in their rooms at a specific hour.

    Parent

    Ok (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:58:45 AM EST
    apply that last sentence to college students.   Understand, I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but you have to admit that would certainly change the college experience most of us remember.
    There is a problem.  But I don't necessarily turning to military type solutions is the answer.

    Parent
    Agreed... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 01:51:42 PM EST
    ...the military is the last place to look.

    But this:

    Being a little drunk is not considered a good time to be consenting.

    A little drunk, I am pretty sure if everyone was a little drunk the problem would not exist.  It's being wasted, falling down stupid, where the problems morphs for college campuses.  The military is on a whole different plane, with locking women in containers and not allowing them access to medical or military care, or even access to a phone.  Add in the recent 'pardons' of guilty men and... whatever, their problems are infinity more severe than simple consent.

    And let's be serious, being a little drunk pretty much describes Thursday through Sunday, and sometimes Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday on campus.  Add in other substances and believing only sober people can give consent is not going to be helpful in finding a solution, especially for people who may not be of legal age.

    Even now, as grown man in my40's, booze is a part of dating.  My periods of being under the influence are a fraction of my college days, but at least with me and people I know, don't involve booze-less dates.  I would be at a loss to plan a date without alcohol, can you even go to dinner w/o a drink, not me, why would I, to give consent ?

    Parent

    You do realize that having to (none / 0) (#187)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:40:15 PM EST
    Ingest "booze" before dating and/or sex is considered intimacy challenged right?

    Parent
    But how can this be a good thing? (none / 0) (#188)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 08:44:21 PM EST
    I'm no pride about drinking, but college students being 'a little drunk' half the week seems like a really bad thing to me.

    Parent
    Hmmm, I don't remember being drunk (none / 0) (#200)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 10:18:15 PM EST
    half the week. Maybe it's because I went to art school?  :P

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:01:04 AM EST
    i meant last paragraph but sentence works too.

    Parent
    Seems to be a cultural thing (none / 0) (#100)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:08:33 PM EST
    I see no harm in talking about how poor on every level sexual expression becomes when we are wasted.

    Why do we consider it a "norm" for college students to be sexual and simultaneously wasted?


    Parent

    Maybe the American college experience (none / 0) (#99)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:04:07 PM EST
    Could use an update?

    Parent
    Very Good Point... (none / 0) (#106)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 03:17:20 PM EST
    ...but that is part of it, like the Amish, it's our extended Rumspringa, where we let lose before becoming constructive members of society.

    I don't have any answers, but I would like to think they would include reality and not some idealistic plan that doesn't deal with the complexities of youngsters getting loaded and having sex.

    Parent

    And I disagree with this (none / 0) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:00:09 AM EST
    it is being discussed.  The topic of the original post would never have come up if it was not.

    Parent
    It seems (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:11:39 AM EST
    to me that we aren't really discussing it but just writing laws. JIMO.

    Parent
    That may have been (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:18:41 AM EST
    one of his points.  I think that's right.  It's much easier than having frank discussions about things like sex.  
    But this subject is getting press. I assume you are aware of this recent web sensation This College Student Will Carry A Mattress To Class Every Day Until Her Alleged Rapist Leaves Campus

    Parent
    It has needed press for months though (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:10:40 PM EST
    The reports and stats have been out there.  It has been a struggle to have a public discussion of the problem.

    Parent
    It's very much discussed (none / 0) (#88)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:53:16 AM EST
     as are racial issues. The criticism that the large volume of  discussion (and the resultant actions) includes too much of the wrong content and not enough of the right content is certainly defensible but one would have to make an extreme effort to avoid frequently  hearing these issues discussed in some fashion.

      As for this particular type of code provision, I'm not convinced a shift from "no means no" to "only yes means yes" will have much real world import.

      Regardless, the overwhelming majority of acquaintance assault cases will remain quintessential "he said, she said" cases. I'm not sure the nuance here will much change the ultimate determinations. If I'm hearing different versions of the same event from the 2 people involved the main determinant is still going to be relative credibility because there is so often little or nothing else to corroborate either version. Does the change from her saying "I didn't say yes" as opposed to "I said no" and him saying "she did say yes" change much?

    Parent

    Indeed. (none / 0) (#98)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 01:58:26 PM EST
    I think what we're talking about here is not "assault" of the "stranger danger" variety; I do not think college students are assaulted by violent rapists any more than the rest of society does.

    I think we are mainly talking about young men and women who are very open to, willing, and, often, actively looking for, close physical intimate contact with peers, and that sometimes that contact goes too far.

    On the one hand when, say, two students willingly disappears by themselves into a dorm room for some privacy during a Friday night hall keg party, there should be no confusion among either of them as to what the end game actually is.

    On the other hand, if at some point one person expressly and clearly indicates to the other that he/she wants to stop, that needs to be respected by the other.

    Not sure an "only yes means yes" policy will make much difference during the heat of passion to prevent misunderstandings.

    Parent

    It seems to me they are codifying what should (none / 0) (#76)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:17:03 AM EST
    have been taught as basic good behavior - make sure your partner really wants to have sex.

    It is a shame it has come to this. Hand in hand should be warnings to women to stay sober and in control - I object that those warnings are sometimes portrayed as 'victim blaming'. I don't see it that way at all. It does not mean it is their fault if they get taken advantage of, it is just reducing the chances of that happening.

    Parent

    It's So Stooopid... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:01:27 PM EST
    ...that people think this needs to be codified.  I mean really, there was a woman on TV promoting an app inn which both parties had to consent to sex by clicking yes.  Really, this thing the same people are claiming should be special, now is interpreted with a cell phone app.

    If you don't know, you are probably one of the people doing it and no matter how many ridiculous rules they put in place, they aren't going to stop jacka$$es from doing jacka$$ stuff, and bragging about it.

    What about the universities, that keep hiding an not reporting actually assaults/rapes, never mind the he/she said stuff, when it comes to assaults some universities are still playing games.  How are students going to adhere to rules/principles when the universities can't.  It's an unreal expectation.

    Why any guy would want to have sex with someone who is either too loaded to understand what is going on, or someone who doesn't want to, is just so f*cked up.  But not rare by any means.

    You can't codify descent human beings, and until guys are taught that women aren't things for sticking your junk in at any time you get the urge, nothing will change.  And not to sound like an old geezer, but we are definitely going backwards in the 'women are objects', and that doesn't fall entirely on men, but yet the byproduct, non-consensual sex, does fall entirely on women.

    Parent

    After reading Dershowitz (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:04:55 PM EST
    i agree that Jeralyns take would be interesting.

    Parent
    More so because (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:20:04 AM EST
    many of these women are literally out of the house for the first time.

    Parent
    Plus (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:24:04 AM EST
    i so agree with the part about basic common sense good behavior.  Maybe too many parents assume that the world we live in will give them all the education they need about how to conduct yourself in intimate situation.  So they learn from movies and TV.  And yes video games.

    Parent
    Most laws (none / 0) (#84)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:38:13 AM EST

    or at least the most frequently applied ones,
    codify basic "good behavior." Beyond purely regulatory laws that is exactly what most  civil laws and the vast majority of criminal laws do.

     Laws that at their fundamental core prohibit and provide civil remedies or criminal punishments for: killing or injuring others; stealing or damaging through various means  the property or rights  of others constitute a huge part of "the law."

    Parent

    Good point, but one would think civil rape laws (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:45:10 AM EST
    would be enough education - there seems to be further need for the universities to break it down even finer to educate these students in what it means to have a mutually satisfying sexual encounter. I think these new school rules are meant to educate as much as to punish.

    Parent
    to rephrase...I guess 'satisfying' is beyond the (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:47:00 AM EST
    scope...should have said 'consented'

    Parent
    education is hopefully more effective (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by ZtoA on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:12:27 PM EST
    than shaming. Usually it is the woman who is shamed. Who knows someone might come out with an app which shames the rapist and the men might start to be shamed too. Seems to me that when a perceived social injustice does not get addressed by eduction or laws, social media steps in. That is not always very helpful tho.

    Parent
    Oversimplifying (none / 0) (#92)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:13:11 PM EST
     and being a tad flippant, I really don't think knowledge or understanding is the real issue making wrongful sexual conduct occur. You should not force yourself on a woman is not a difficult concept or one which males have not been taught.

    I feel pretty safe in positing that lust, desire, selfishness, aggressiveness  and lack of caring (not to mention alcohol)overriding well known moral teaching is the real issue. I doubt the men involved care whether the sex is  "mutually" satisfying.

    Parent

    Alan Dershowitz (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 11:43:45 AM EST
    Twenty-eight current and retired Harvard Law School professors are asking the university to abandon its new sexual misconduct policy and craft different guidelines for investigating allegations, asserting that the new rules violate the due process rights of the accused.

    "This is an issue of political correctness run amok," said Alan M. Dershowitz, an emeritus Harvard Law professor who was among the faculty members signing an article, sent to the Globe's Opinion page, that is critical of the new procedures.

    LINK

    Parent

    My post is about the solution (none / 0) (#95)
    by Slado on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 12:59:57 PM EST
    not the problem.

    There will always be issues when 20 somethings experience new freedoms, mixed with alcohol etc.. etc...  

    This will always be a challenge but sometimes over reaction with bad legislation or rules just creates new problems and doesn't address the root causes.

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:42:03 PM EST
    wothiut knowing the gender of all commenters this seems to be breaking down along gender lines.  

    I have a serious question.   This definitely seems to be more common a problem now than, say, when I was in college.  Do we think it is?  Or is it just being reported more?

    Parent

    I think it is more of a problem (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by nycstray on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 04:53:26 PM EST
    and starts in high school . . .

    Parent
    I agree with you (5.00 / 2) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 05:03:45 PM EST
    i think it probably starts in diapers.  

    Parent
    Many more people are in college now (none / 0) (#105)
    by Reconstructionist on Tue Oct 21, 2014 at 02:54:44 PM EST
     than when I was.

    http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

    Undergraduate enrollment increased 47 percent between 1970 and 1983, when it reached 10.8 million. Undergraduate enrollment dipped to 10.6 million in 1984 and 1985, but then increased each year from 1985 to 1992, rising 18 percent before stabilizing between 1992 and 1998. Between 2001 and 2011, undergraduate enrollment rose 32 percent, from 13.7 million to 18.1 million.

    That's a rather convoluted presentation, but it would be a fair guess that there are roughly twice as many undergrads now as in the mid to late 70s.

      Thus, it would be roughly twice as common now if per capita rates remained constant. Add to that the extremely  high  likelihood that it is more commonly reported now, and it's probably speculation to claim today's college kids are more likely to be victims or perpetrators.
     

    Poor Jim, persecuted again (none / 0) (#202)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 at 06:55:46 AM EST
    For spreading lies about AGM.

    I worked with Caravaggio (none / 0) (#204)
    by jondee on Wed Oct 22, 2014 at 04:08:58 PM EST
    I knew Caravaggio, I was once stabbed by Caravaggio, Caravaggio was a friend of mine.

    Tom Otterness is no Caravaggio.