home

Tuesday News and Open Thread

Ferguson seems to have died down. The grand jury isn't expected to finish work until October.

In other cases: Joran van der Sloot allegedly threatened to kill the warden at Piedras Gordos prison and has been transferred to the hinterland: Challapalca prison in the Andres, near the border with Bolivia. It's one of Peru's roughest prisons, with most of the inmates sent there after disciplinary problems in other prisons. Human Rights groups have cited it for violations. There is no running water or electricity. The water for human consumpstion isn't treated, which causes gastric distress. The hygience is inadequate. There is no opportunity to go outdoors at all for recreation. Joran is on a hunger strike in protest of the transfer.

[More...]

"El Chino Antrax" of the Sinaloa Federation had his second court appearance in San Diego last week. Prosecutors say they have a lot of wiretap evidence. He is likely to be tried with Serafin Zamblada, son of Ismael and brother of Jesus Vicente Zambada-Garcia.

Tamerlane Tsarnaev's wife has remarried and had another daughter.

Back to Iraq: ISIS reported early this morning it had retaken the Mosul Dam from the Kurds and killed a bunch of soldiers. That's one reason not to arm the kurds: The equipment will just go to ISIS when it beats them.

ISIS also continued its suicide attacks ithis morning in Fallujah , Kerbala, Hilla and around Baghdad, killing many. (Via ISIS Twitter and Russian VK accounts.)

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Emmys: Breaking Bad | Identifying James Foley's Executioners >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Innuendo? (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:51:55 AM EST
    I'm not suggesting anything underhanded. It's just the media has reported all the details it can on Wilson, but not on Brown.  

    Really you are not suggesting anything?

    Welfare cheats, crime ridden, high turnover population, Brown arrogant at best stupid at worst.

    Keep my comment in context (none / 0) (#118)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:00:02 PM EST
    I'm not suggesting anything underhanded by where Brown was staying. His grandmother's complex isn't public housing, nor Section 8. It would not matter if he was staying there or not, in regard to the rent. That's the only thing I can think of that relates to "welfare cheating."

    Btw, two of my sisters have been on forms of public assistance, and one was convicted of fraud for getting "too many" food stamps. So, I generally don't go after "welfare cheats."

    The area where he lives is crime-ridden with a high turnover. The turnover helps explain why so few African Americans vote. Others have blamed apathy or a dislike of the system. But I'm offering a different (partial) explanation: Mobility hurts voter registration.

    I didn't realize how bad crime was in those 3 apt complexes until I read those articles, and I'm sure there are others who were similarly uninformed. It helps explain why a store clerk/owner might not bother to call the police or might fear retaliation if he calls the police, after a man steals cigars worth around $50.

    I haven't read anything to suggest Brown was arrogant or stupid. But it is possible that he was trying to act tough. I didn't speculate further on this because we still don't know if he ever committed violence or other crimes as a juvenile.

    Parent

    We also don't know if (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:12:33 PM EST
    we're going to find out that Officer Wilson beat his wife and that's why they got divorced, and so even though Wilson sure acted arrogant and made some pretty stupid decisions that day in Ferguson, we won't speculate further about what kind of person Wilson is.

    How does it read when someone turns your oh-so-innocent, golly-I-was-just-wondering musings around on you?  

    You really put the "dis" in "disingenuous."

    Parent

    I would love to know (none / 0) (#134)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:41:57 PM EST
    if Wilson's wife divorced him over his violence. In fact, I'd like to hear about any sort of violence in his past.

    Parent
    He plays hockey, 'nuff sed. (none / 0) (#139)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:47:06 PM EST
    That was a joke, in case anyone thinks (none / 0) (#142)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:49:06 PM EST
    I'm truly being "sportist."

    Parent
    Too true (none / 0) (#145)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:49:41 PM EST
    Oh (5.00 / 3) (#141)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:48:44 PM EST
    And stop spreading the false story that Brown stole $50. worth of cigars. I thought we cleared that up for you a while ago.

    Parent
    I didn't see your correction (none / 0) (#146)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:52:29 PM EST
    Thanks for clarifying that for me, which I mean sincerely, but it would be great if so many commenters didn't assume that others are always out to twist facts.

    Parent
    OK (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:08:15 PM EST
    But you may want to change your approach because whenever anyone says something like:

    I don't mean to say anything bad, but it is just that...

    It is disingenuous.

    Parent

    The COntext (none / 0) (#130)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:24:51 PM EST
    The context of your comment, and I am sorry that my threading did not work out, was this:

    I'm not suggesting anything underhanded. It's just the media has reported all the details it can on Wilson, but not on Brown.  

    It would be more honest of you to just defend Wilson, and smear Brown without suggesting that you have no dog in this race.

    Parent

    But it would not be true (none / 0) (#140)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:48:41 PM EST
    I get interested in stories in which I think the media is ignorant or biased. That's my "dog." In fact, I've spent much of this year on another story: the banning of power morcellation for uterine leiomyosarcoma. The biggest proponent has already compared me to a Nazi collaborator. I wish there was a way to discuss facts without having opponents assume you are evil in some way.

    In case anyone is interested in the uLMS story, here's what I wrote.

    Parent

    You have to see the picture (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:02:38 AM EST
    I do see Ronald McDonald in there... (none / 0) (#19)
    by Dadler on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:09:03 AM EST
    ...do I not?

    Love it.

    Parent

    And Santa! (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:11:07 AM EST
    Santa's a piker (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Dadler on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:18:03 AM EST
    Ronnie McDonnie has served something like "over a zillion." Not to mention, they use a such a democratically generous amount of preservatives, which ensures refugees can eat those leftover burgers a decade later if need be. But this isn't even the real reason I love and, let's be honest, fetishize preservatives. I do this because I figure if they can keep food fresh for decades then they'll keep me fresh too. It's like eating botox, except with "cheese" and "onions" thrown in for "free."

    Can you tell I took a pain pill this morning?

    Peace.

    Parent

    You do realize (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:20:04 AM EST
    We are all encouraging (shudder) vandalism.  If I had pearls I would be clutching them.

    Parent
    How Egyptian of you ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:34:33 PM EST
    maybe future archeologists will break into Ronald's tomb and find his organs in to-go boxes..

    Parent
    Looks sort of like (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:32:13 PM EST
    the cover of Sargent Pepper..as they walk off the stage..

    Parent
    Cornel West.. (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:01:18 PM EST
    droppin' science on the Obama years and Ferguson...

    And we ended up with a brown-faced Clinton. Another opportunist. Another neoliberal opportunist. It's like, "Oh, no, don't tell me that!" I tell you this, because I got hit hard years ago, but everywhere I go now, it's "Brother West, I see what you were saying. Brother West, you were right. Your language was harsh and it was difficult to take, but you turned out to be absolutely right." And, of course with Ferguson, you get it reconfirmed even among the people within his own circle now, you see. It's a sad thing. It's like you're looking for John Coltrane and you get Kenny G in brown skin.


    I think this is unfair (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:26:58 PM EST
    There are plenty of things to criticize him for but not this.   From day one Obama has had to walk a tightrope between the Becks of the world saying he hates white people and the Wests of the world who expects him to wave some kind I magic wand and fix everything.

    Parent
    I just read the interview with Cornel (5.00 / 4) (#83)
    by caseyOR on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:09:13 PM EST
    West. The quote to which you are responding is not about Ferguson. West is commenting on Obama's entire term in office, not Obama's response to what happened in Ferguson.

    West has been a sharp critic of Obama based on West's belief that Obama is not a liberal or progressive despite the many rumors to the contrary.

    In West's view Obama is another corporatist tool (my words), working for Wall Street and big money in all its pernicious forms, but not all that concerned with bettering the lot of the rest of us, and in particular not concerned with the poor regardless of their skin color.

    I do not agree that West was being unfair to Obama with that statement.

    Parent

    If that's the case (none / 0) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:12:43 PM EST
    I tend to agree.  It sounded all about race.

    Parent
    It's am imagined tight rope though,.. (5.00 / 3) (#84)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:12:17 PM EST
    the Becks you mention are deranged...there is no evidence in his record to indicate anything but an infinite love for white people...specifically the 1%.  

    And he's droned the hell outta brown countries.

    I know what you're saying...the first black president can't appear to cater to blacks at the expense of whites...but Cornel's criticism is fair.  It's been a continuation of the Clinton way...corporate centrist all the way, or what we used to call conservative 50 years ago.  

    Parent

    Whew (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:13:38 PM EST
    My dog Daisy has a tail rather like a Pom Pom.  I have one of those plastic fans on about a 3-4 stand on my back porch which I had taken the cover off to clean.  The dogs are crowding around the back door trying like Larry, Curly and Mo to be the first one in and Daisy gets her tail caught in the fan.
    Yikes.
    No breakage or permanent damage except for the fan which ended up by the back fence but lots of frayed nerves.  Several rounds of milk bones were required.

    Oh no, poor Daisy (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:05:48 PM EST
    I'm sure she was freaked out! Glads she is OK except for the fan PTSD.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:13:00 PM EST
    It was like a train wreck.  Once it started there was nothing I could but stand there staring with my mouth open until it was over.

    Parent
    This seems wrong to me (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:17:31 PM EST
    The man that police were trying to subdue outside an Orlando nightclub last week has been charged with first degree felony murder because the officer that shot at him killed an innocent bystander. The accused's own gun was not loaded.  

    Linking not working for me today...top story on orlandosentinel.com

    And in a sidebar, now they are wondering if the 'recent murder' makes downtown Orlando less safe. Yeah, I would say so, with cops shooting at drunk guys.

    Yeah (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:33:03 PM EST
    Suspect charged with murder after stray police bullet kills innocent woman

    I would say wrong.


    The man described by a 911 caller as a "gun wielding maniac" who authorities say drew the fire of a police officer last week -- including a stray shot that killed a bystander -- now faces a murder charge, the Orlando Police Department said.

    --snip

    As he fell, Roach dropped a .40 caliber Ruger handgun from his right hand, the affidavit states. Investigators would later determine the gun was not loaded, but had been reported stolen, and Roach was the prime suspect.



    Parent
    This to me gets at the real issue (none / 0) (#177)
    by Slado on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:57:40 PM EST
    While race cannot be set aside anymore in Ferguson to me the issue of this case is and will continue to be the use of force by police.

    To me this seems like an issue nationwide.

    Some interesting things I've read regarding this subject...

    Victims are to blame because they're not submissive enough

    Really?  I mean if this is the attitude of our police forces, or even a minority of police people nationwide we are all in big trouble.

    Us vs. Them culture in Police Forces

    While being a policeman is a hard job and they deserve our gratitude they are also servants.  

    They serve to protect us, help us and we pay them.  We are not the enemy.  Ever.  

    If people are suspected of committing crimes they deserve to be arrested but ultimately they are still citizens and after serving time they should go back to being considered a normal person.   Suspects or even people who fit the part are not the "enemy" they are citizens with the same rights as the police people's family members.   I understand the daily grind of police work may cause people to become jaded but this basic principal must be discussed and lived daily by the people who serve us.

    Serving us does not mean using petty fines and tickets to boost public revenues.

    No wonder a terrible environment existed in Ferguson.   I would estimate that this is not an isolated reality.  I've often joked with friends to watch driving here or there, the city or county is looking to make some money serving tickets.    There is a dark truth in this reality that sometimes the police force along with local government is more interested in their interests then ours.

    And just to show it's not always about race...

    Black officer kills white male in police shooting

    Notice race is not mentioned but that's not the point.

    White Teen gunned down by white officer

    The point is here we have more young males dead in an apparent over use of deadly force.  

    To me this is the lesson of Ferguson.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:03:41 PM EST
    But having cops in my family and having heard them discuss many things a word of advise for everyone.

    Never ever think to use the "I pay your salary" line in a tense situation.   Froget that's it's true.  It's like catnip.

    Parent

    11 shots -- (none / 0) (#1)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:11:12 AM EST
    This confirms rumors that there were 12 shell casings found at the scene -- all from the officer's weapon

    Moment Michael Brown was shot dead 'caught on audio recording': FBI handed potentially damning tape of ELEVEN shots being fired - including final volley of 'kill shots'

    I'm glad I don't live someplace where (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:22:41 AM EST
    the sound of 10 or 11 gunshots being fired in rapid succession and fairly close by wouldn't even register or draw my attention away from whatever I was doing.

    Parent
    I'd Wait (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:57:13 AM EST
    until it is authenticated before drawing conclusions.  The ability to fake items like this is fairly widespread.  Just watch Youtube.
    Lemon cautioned that 'CNN cannot independent verify the authenticity of this tape' but did say that the FBI have interviewed both Blumenthal and her client.


    Parent
    For an attorney representing a client.... (none / 0) (#52)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:10:04 PM EST
    to provide it, the attorney would really be putting herself in a tough spot with her license if she participated in providing bogus evidence to the FBI and CNN, to say the least. I don't know why the FBI need to authenticate it any further for people to believe it.

    Parent
    It is a Crime to Lie to CNN? (none / 0) (#59)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:30:15 PM EST
    If judges had your attitude about authentication, it would certainly speed up cases.  Plenty of bogus evidence was put forward by newspapers in the Martin-Zimmerman  case and nobody got into trouble for it and when is the last time a lawyer got into trouble for representing a perjurer?  Remember the "audio experts" who claimed to rule out Zimmerman as the the screamer for help on the 911 tape?

    Parent
    No, that reference was more to the FBI thing.... (none / 0) (#71)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:47:24 PM EST
    But I think making knowingly false statements to a national news organization would reflect very poorly on her professional reputation.

    Parent
    thing?

    It's not her responsibility to authenticate the audio, seems to me she simply represents her client who is the person who is giving the recording to the FBI & CNN and who is claiming that it's authentic.

    Parent

    All These "Honest Witnesses" (3.00 / 2) (#97)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:30:14 PM EST
    lawyering up first, makes me suspicious.  I trust the witnesses we haven't heard about, since they spoke to official investigators and not the media, more than those we have heard about.

    Parent
    RJ, let me give you a piece of advice, (5.00 / 5) (#122)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:06:58 PM EST
    That I have, luckily, not had to learn the hard way.

    If the police/FBI/etc EVER want to question you for ANYTHING, do not agree to say ANYTHING without an attorney present.

    Parent

    That's nuts. (none / 0) (#105)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:40:45 PM EST
    A lawyer gives the witness more credibility because they are advising their client on the consequences of lying to investigators and vetting the testimony for truthfulness.

    Parent
    I think in this particular case it's the right (none / 0) (#106)
    by Angel on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:42:02 PM EST
    thing to do.  It's what I would do were I in that situation.  I certainly wouldn't hand over any potential evidence to the Ferguson police or St. Louis police or the state of Missouri police knowing the situation there.  To say that it makes you suspicious boggles my mind.

    Parent
    I would also (none / 0) (#115)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:55:40 PM EST
    especially in a situation like this.

    Parent
    True, if she's providing it in good faith.... (none / 0) (#73)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:50:36 PM EST
    but what would the FBI know that she doesn't about the tape to make it more geniune? I suppose some sort of forensic analysis or checking with the witnesses ISP to make sure the recorder was actually chatting on ilovebeautifulwomen.com

    Parent
    I suppose the same. (none / 0) (#75)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:53:00 PM EST
    Could be THE evidence in the case. Wow. (none / 0) (#2)
    by Angel on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 08:47:07 AM EST
    I'm only hearing (none / 0) (#7)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:39:24 AM EST
    5 or maybe 6 shots in the first volley followed then by hesitation and then the second volley of 4 measured shots.

    Could that first volley have been while he was still fleeing??? If so then that will cause the MEs to rethink their autopsies.

    Either way it's not the number of shots that is damning to Wilson but the pause between the first and second volley.

    Parent

    But it's tough to hear, I'm sure someone can easily slow down the audio to hear better.

    Anyway:

    Could that first volley have been while he was still fleeing???
    That would be my guess. Additionally my guess would be that the pause was when Brown stopped and turned around, followed by the second volley. It will be interesting to see what justification is given for that second volley.

    Parent
    Especially since Brown had to have.... (none / 0) (#41)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:32:45 AM EST
    at least one (if 5 shots after pause) or two (if only 4 shots after pause) gun shot wounds already.

    Parent
    Anyway: (none / 0) (#51)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:07:28 PM EST
    Anyway:

    Could that first volley have been while he was still fleeing???

    If that's the case then it vindicates all the witnesses who claimed that he was shot at with his back turned.

    That would mean that atleast 2 and maybe 3 of the 6 wounds in the autopsy were back to front -- the hand, the forearm, and the grazing wound on the upper arm.

    It will be interesting to see what justification is given for that second volley.

    Heck the guy was fleeing -- what was his justification for the first volley much less the second.

    That pause is the difference between Murder 1 and Murder 2.

    Parent

    "That pause is the difference" (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:42:14 PM EST
    That pause is the difference between Murder 1 and Murder 2.
    What is your source for this assertion?

    Parent
    The definition of (1.00 / 0) (#102)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:37:38 PM EST
    Murder One

    Parent
    Actually, no (5.00 / 0) (#109)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:45:23 PM EST
    It's NOT the definition of Murder One.

    Except in your world.

    Parent

    In defense of Chip.... (none / 0) (#112)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:49:50 PM EST
    the pause likely adds a higher level of criminal intent. Maybe the difference between Murder 2 and manslaughter, or manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter.

    Parent
    Anything is possible (5.00 / 0) (#116)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:56:27 PM EST
    But I will put all the money I have in the world down that Wilson will not be charged with Murder One.  No prosecutor in their right mind, knowing what we now know (or, more accurately, what we THINK we know) is going to charge him with that, because it would be virtually impossible to meet all the elements of the crime and actually prove that.

    Parent
    I agree (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by sj on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:04:24 PM EST
    But I will put all the money I have in the world down that Wilson will not be charged with Murder One.
    It may or may not be also be true if the shooting was black on black.

    But if the shooting had been a black shooter and a white unarmed victim, I would place NO money on that bet.

    Parent

    Which has....? (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:11:43 PM EST
    But if the shooting had been a black shooter and a white unarmed victim, I would place NO money on that bet.

    What to do with this specific situation?

    More likely, I would still put money on it if it was a black police officer and a white unarmed victim - I doubt any prosector would chance a Murder One charge even in that scenario.  It would have to be an extreme case with basically no doubt.

    Parent

    You don't like context much, do you? (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by sj on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:12:52 PM EST
    Actually (none / 0) (#129)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:21:08 PM EST
    The context of the conversation was this specific event. You, on the other hand, are speculating about broader social implications, so it seems that you are the one not appreciating context here.

    YMMV.

    Parent

    Are you trying to say... (5.00 / 3) (#186)
    by sj on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:49:54 PM EST
    Actually (none / 0) (#129)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:21:08 PM MDT

    The context of the conversation was this specific event.

    ...that this event has no larger context? Because I could argue that the entire event as all about [the larger] context.

    Ignoring that is just putting on the blinders that you accuse others of having.

    Parent

    I think you are probably right (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:58:09 PM EST
    but I don't agree that the pause "likely adds a higher level of criminal intent."

    If Wilson fired the first volley at Brown as Brown was running away, and then stopped when Brown turned, and then Brown came back at Wilson and so Wilson fired the second volley, or some similar-type scenario, in my completely-not-a-lawyer wild-ass-guess, that could potentially exonerate Wilson.

    Parent

    That assumes Brown came back on him..... (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:04:50 PM EST
    which makes far less sense than the surrender scenario with Brown having already been wounded.

    Wilson shoots six times, wings Brown, pauses, then kills him anyway? That pause means he re-assessed the situation and still shot an unarmed and now wounded person. That's a lot more egregious than had all those shots been fired at once.

    Parent

    Yeah, once the bullets are (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:10:00 PM EST
    flying past and hitting you, going back to "bumrush" the shooter sounds a bit, um, off . . .

    Parent
    Wilson shoots six times, wings Brown, pauses, then kills him anyway?
    Exactly, there are basically two scenarios being discussed.

    1} Wilson consciously decided to shoot Brown dead with full knowledge that he was illegally murdering a guy with his hands up in broad daylight on a public street in a densely populated neighborhood.

    2) Wilson thought he was doing what his cop training said to do, ie, stopping a threat.

    If the true scenario is 2) then, to my knowledge, that could potentially exonerate Wilson.

    Parent

    Define threat. (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:29:34 PM EST
    How is a wounded, unarmed person a threat justifying 4 more gunshots?

    Parent
    "Threat" is defined by the law, (none / 0) (#137)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:44:19 PM EST
    I would presume.

    It sounds like you would like to debate the technicalities/specifics of the law?

    If so, I am not your man. As I have very clearly stated, I am not a lawyer. And do not attempt to interpret the technicalities of the law.

    My comment above is my understanding in broad strokes of how our legal system is supposed to work.

    Wilson either is a cold-blooded murderer, or he's not.

    Parent

    Lame. Use dictionary defintion of threat. (none / 0) (#144)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:49:38 PM EST
    What kind of threat justifying 4 more gunshots existed from a wounded unarmed person?

    Parent
    services to the Brown family and/or State of MO. Sounds like you got this one tied up with a bow.

    Parent
    You should offer your services to (none / 0) (#149)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:02:07 PM EST
    Meet the Press as a guest who never answers the question asked of them.

    Parent
    over who has the "right" opinion. My opinion is that there are multiple scenarios that could have occurred. Apparently your opinion is that there is only one scenario. Fair enough, we have different opinions.

    Parent
    As mentioned earlier, the issue (none / 0) (#183)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:37:22 PM EST
    is not whether Brown was "unarmed."  The issue is, if Wilson suspected abrown was armed, was his suspicion objectively reasonable?

    Parent
    stopping a threat. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:42:51 PM EST
    2) Wilson thought he was doing what his cop training said to do, ie, stopping a threat.

    The truth is that there was no threat to stop.  Wilson was the initiator of the action.

    If he can get in his SUV and close the door and roll up the window, with an unarmed person outside then there is no threat.

    If the threat is running away from him, then there is no  threat.

    If the threat is standing 35 feet from him and is wounded because he just shot him to keep him from running away, there is no threat.

    There was no reason for the first shot as he was running away, nor for the following volley of shots, nor for the last 4 shots except to finish him off.

    Parent

    Perhaps the "decision tree" as (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:25:45 PM EST
    constructed by the Ferguson PD for situations that begin with "walking in the middle of the road" is the real culprit here, because it seems to me that Wilson didn't make one good decision from the moment he spotted Brown and Johnson.

    He had so many points along the way where he could have made better decisions, and he bypassed them in favor of escalating the situation from "jaywalking" to "dead man in the street."

    Instead of "Get the fk on the sidewalk!" it could have been "Hey, guys, what's goin' on?  Sure is hot out today.  Almost home?  That's great - but could you move on over to the sidewalk please.  Thanks, guys, you all have a good rest of the day."

    It could have ended there.  No one angry, no one dead.

    But let's say that Brown or Johnson gave him attitude, what then?  How about, "Look, guys - I don't want any trouble, and I'm sure you don't either.  I'm just doing my job."

    It could have ended there.  A little tense, but it gets defused and everyone lives.

    If, after using all the tools for peaceful resolution, things continue to deteriorate, then what?  Can he choose to just let it go, tell the boys he hopes they really are almost home and if he sees them moving in the general direction of the sidewalk, he'll assume they're being cooperative but will swing by in 5 minutes to make sure they're not still in the middle of the road?  

    From what I've seen, Wilson created the threats that he then responded to, and I'm not sure that works in Wilson's favor.  He can't be a hero if he created the conditions that led to his "saving" the community from some grave threat.

    If Wilson was acting in accordance with his cop training, I'd have to seriously question that training - and if the training's not at fault, then I'd have to look at the practices of a police department that would hire someone with the kinds of decision-making deficits Wilson had.  How many more like him are there in Ferguson?

    Parent

    911 Call was the priority -- (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:10:43 PM EST
    Exactly --

    But the first question to me is why is he majoring on the minors here when he is on an Emergency 911 Call to the convenience store.

    Why is he taking valuable time to hassle a couple of kids about jaywalking when the Emergency 911 Call was the priority.

    Just think what could have been:

    He could have continued onto the store and when shown the tape of the shoplifting said I just saw those two guys and gone back up there with 3 or 4 squad cars and made the collar and been the hero.

    Instead his actions will likely end a lot of careers there in Ferguson.

    The swelling to his face was more than likely  from the multiple slaps delivered by the assistant chief for being so stupid.

    Parent

    Alternately (none / 0) (#132)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:32:44 PM EST

    It could mean that rather than unloading the entire magazine to stop the charging Brown, Wilson held up firing more in the forlorn hope that Brown would stop.  In other words it may show the officer hoped to avoid killing Brown.

    Parent
    Yeah, I'm sure that's what went down. (none / 0) (#135)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:42:19 PM EST
    Since Brown was on PCP laced stolen cigarillos.

    Parent
    Daydreaming (none / 0) (#148)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:01:09 PM EST
    In other words it may show the officer hoped to avoid killing Brown.

    Now you're really daydreaming --



    Parent

    Thanks, your personal opinion is noted. (none / 0) (#107)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:43:44 PM EST
    Chances are (none / 0) (#72)
    by jbindc on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:47:31 PM EST
    First degree murder (or "Murder 1") will not be on the table.

    Parent
    6 shots in the first volley and 4 in the second.

    Parent
    That pause in the shooting is going to be hard.... (none / 0) (#6)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:36:27 AM EST
    to explain away, especially since at least one or two of those initial 6 shots found their mark before the pause. Makes it unlikely Brown "bum-rushed" Wilson if he had 2 gunshot wounds already. Makes the surrender story sound much more likely.

    I hope Wilson or the county investigators gave some sort of narrative before this tape was released so that they don't just tailor some made up story to fit the audio.

    Parent

    Folks are still arguing (5.00 / 0) (#170)
    by ragebot on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:32:48 PM EST
    about the tapes of the JFK assassination and how many gun shots came from where.  What makes anyone think this tape will be any more dispositive.

    Parent
    Better science/tech? (none / 0) (#197)
    by nycstray on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:25:00 PM EST
    I would think location might matter also. Where I live, sound is deceptive.

    Parent
    If you've ever seen the movie (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:36:28 PM EST
    The Conversation from 1972, it's crazy how effective eavesdropping technology was even back then, and scary to think what can be done now.

    Parent
    How do you know any of the (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:41:08 PM EST
    shots prior to the pause struck Brown?

    Parent
    Simple math (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:04:32 PM EST
    How do you know any of the (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:15:04 PM EST
    shots prior to the pause struck Brown?

    By the process of deduction.

    The MEs in their autopsies said that atleast 6 shots struck Brown and perhaps as many as 8.

    Even if all 4 after the pause hit Brown, that means that atleast 2 and perhaps as many as 4 must have hit him before the pause.

    Parent

    report jibes with Baden's.

    Parent
    Math.... (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:20:23 PM EST
    Brown hit 6 times, only 4 shots fired after pause.

    Parent
    Interesting (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:31:27 PM EST
    We have the audio tape so now you are suggesting the magic bullet theory.

    Nice.

    Parent

    Unlikely (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:40:37 AM EST
    It is unlikely, IMO, that Wilson gave any account of the shooting that could be compared to the version on the current audio tape.

    It is more than likely, IMO,  that the reason the tape was leaked is so that Wilson can get his story straight.

    Parent

    Unless I am mistaken.... (none / 0) (#9)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:46:15 AM EST
    the audio was provided to Don Lemon by the attorney who represents the man who recorded the shots. CNN did not get this audio from any law enforcement leak.

    Parent
    Who Do You Think Leaked it? (none / 0) (#24)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:22:16 AM EST
    OK.. (none / 0) (#26)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:26:13 AM EST
    Don Lemon..

    Parent
    Are you suggesting (none / 0) (#17)
    by Jack203 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:03:10 AM EST
    Wilson hasn't given his version of events to police yet?  

    I find that hard to believe.  I am pretty sure that would be the first thing Wilson did when he got back to the precinct.

    Parent

    If she wasn't, I am. (none / 0) (#18)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:08:23 AM EST
    I think it's quite possible his union or an attorney immediately told him to stand on his right to remain silent.

    Parent
    Wilson To Police? (none / 0) (#23)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:20:40 AM EST
    It is unlikely, IMO, that Wilson gave any account of the shooting that could be compared to the version on the current audio tape.

    My point was not refuting that Wilson told his peers his version of the story, but that version will never be used in the face of conflicting evidence.

    Parent

    Wilson did not complete an incident -- (none / 0) (#27)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:26:51 AM EST
    MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell reported on August 21 that Wilson did not complete an incident report about the shooting, after being advised by a union lawyer not to do so....

    According to O'Donnell, Wilson did file a report, but not until ten days after the shooting, and the report contained no information other than his name and the date....

    According to the St. Louis County Prosecutor's Office, the Ferguson Police Department has never generated an incident report on the shooting....

    On August 20 and 21, the St. Louis County Police and the Ferguson Police released their respective incident reports, which gave the time when each police force arrived on the scene and classified the incident as a homicide.

     Neither report contains a narrative description of what occurred.

    The report states that police learned of the killing at 12:43 p.m., 40 minutes after the incident, and that officers did not arrive at the scene until 1:30 p.m.

    The Shooting of Michael Brown

    Parent

    Oh for god's sake. Do you not (1.00 / 0) (#185)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:46:04 PM EST
    realize by now that in an officer-involved shooting, the involved officer does not write up an incident report?  That in this case, the Chief of the Ferguson P.D. asked the County of St . louis PD to do the officer-involved shooting investigation?

    Parent
    Very shady (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jack203 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:39:57 AM EST
    then.

    Many claim not talking to police is the smart thing to do in this kind of situation.

    But as a police officer, I thought it would be standard procedure to detail exactly what happened. If he has nothing to hide, it would seem to me he would have voluntarily gave a full detailed incident report.

    Parent

    One does not give up his or her (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:53:36 AM EST
    constitutional right against self-incrimination just because he or she is a member of law enforcement.  And considering that what's on the line here is a possible charge of murder or manslaughter, it would be utterly stupid for Wilson to start talking.

    Jeralyn has said on more than one occasion that the jails and prisons are full of people who believed they were innocent and saw no harm in giving police their side of the story.

    I may not believe Wilson's shooting of Brown was justified, but it doesn't mean I believe Wilson doesn't have the right to exercise his constitutional right to remain silent - he absolutely does.

    Parent

    I know (none / 0) (#70)
    by Jack203 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:45:58 PM EST
    talking to police may come back to haunt you.  Or it might not.   As a glaring example, GZ's open communication to the police convinced a lot of people of his innocence, including the police and the jury.  

    I understand police officers can opt to not incriminate themselves.  You may not be surprised if Darren Wilson did not describe his version of events, but I will be very surprised if this is the case.

    I want to learn more about police incident report procedures.  I thought anytime a police's weapon was fired they needed to detail every thing.
    Ferguson police turned the Michael Brown case over to St Louis County police immediately after the incident.  

    Parent

    Incident Report (none / 0) (#64)
    by Jack203 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:38:13 PM EST
    May exist, but might not have been released yet.

    http://time.com/3159680/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-police-report/

    "Schellman told TIME that the department does not intend to release the "investigative" component of the incident report, the part that details Wilson's version of events.

    Schellman said that under the Missouri State "Sunshine" Law, the department was not required to release the information during a pending investigation. As a result, Wilson's account of what happens will remain confidential unless it is presented by a prosecutor, Schellman said."


    Parent

    If the governor demands (none / 0) (#133)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:36:35 PM EST

    If the governor demands you be vigorously prosecuted, then you best let your lawyer do all of the talking.

    Parent
    It will be interesting to see whether (none / 0) (#49)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:04:29 PM EST
    the various sounds on the recording can be isolated, as the "chat" is very distracting.

    I got to wondering whether, as close as those shots appeared to be to the guy who inadvertently recorded them, and as close to Wilson as Brown has been alleged to be, anyone has heard anything on that recording being shouted by either Wilson or Brown during the time the shots were being fired.

    Parent

    The other witness: (none / 0) (#56)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:20:07 PM EST
    At about 8:10 on this now famous video tape an ear witness tells about the two volleys of shots with the pause in between.

    Parent
    Challapalca (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:00:07 AM EST
    Sounds like Chateau d'If

    Ferguson & low-income housing (none / 0) (#5)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:34:14 AM EST
    For a few years as a reporter, I covered public housing, affordable housing and the like. This story, from the St. L Post-Dispatch, discusses the low-income apartments in the area where Brown was shot.

    When people talk about Ferguson being majority black, I think some don't understand that it is racially integrated, with one corner being overwhelmingly African American. It's not surprising that some residents didn't know this annexed area was actually part of their town.

    Northwinds, where Brown's grandmother lives, got low-income tax credits to rehab it. The other two complexes also seem to be geared to lower-income people. There's a lot of turnover, which helps explain why so few African Americans in Ferguson vote. (It's a hassle to keep changing your voter registration.)

    The LA Times says Brown was living with friends, not his grandmother, at the time of the shooting. I'm curious about where his parents live, and why he was in Ferguson. I'm not suggesting anything underhanded. It's just the media has reported all the details it can on Wilson, but not on Brown.  

    Although the focus of the Ferguson story is on the interaction between black residents and white police, people should remember that there's a ton of crime concentrated in these three low-income apt complexes. Residents are suspicious of some of the neighbors, just as they are of the police.

    Btw, I've been surprised by people who don't see any problem with Brown continuing to walk in the middle of the road despite seeing a police car and then being ordered to get on the sidewalk. Obviously, that's not a capital offense. Most young people (including poor ones) I know would have headed to the sidewalk as soon as they saw a marked car.  

    And who here has made that claim? (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:51:00 AM EST
    The comments I've sen here haven't said that it was okay for Brown to walk in the middle of the road, but that both Brown and Wilson didn't handle the situation very well.

    The last time I checked, walking in the middle of the road in MO isn't a capital offense.

    Parent

    From the LA Times article you linked (5.00 / 6) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:56:36 AM EST
    In this mix, Michael Brown was known as a good kid -- not an angel, but someone who had hope for the future.

    It is part of the reason why his death has reverberated so strongly: He had hope, and he was killed.

    "If his grandma said go upstairs, he went. He was respectful," recalled neighbor Kevin Seltzer, 30. "He didn't bother people. That's why the community here in Ferguson, the real community of Canfield, we're upset now."
    ...
    A woman who lives in the complex and asked not to be identified for fear of being targeted by residents and police said she heard the commotion and ran to her balcony. She said Brown threw his hands up in the air, shouting, "Don't shoot!"

    "The officer kept shooting and he fell to his knees, begging for his life," the woman said. "That's when he finished him off, shot him in the head."

    I am surprised by the number of people who discount black witnesses and don't even consider the possibility that they are telling the truth.

    Parent

    Black witnesses (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:41:34 AM EST
    I am surprised by the number of people who discount black witnesses and don't even consider the possibility that they are telling the truth.

    Exactly

    And that to me is the racist part of this whole thing. All the witnesses are black and because they are black they must be lying.

    I truly am ashamed of a whole lot of websites and talk show hosts.

    Parent

    Check this out (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:45:27 AM EST
    Exclusive Video: This Is How Police Treated Residents of the Apartment Complex Where Michael Brown Was Killed

    The footage, captured by Canfield Green resident Marquez Larkin on the evening of August 13, features a line of about twenty police officers clad in riot gear, guarding the entrance of the neighborhood. Larkin said he and his brother, Khalil Fells, had just been herded back away from West Florissant at gunpoint.

    They saw an unidentified man approaching the blockade of officers, walking back and forth at least three times. Larkin whipped out his cellphone and began to record. In the video, the man can be seen putting his hands up and yelling at the police before multiple popping sounds, which Larkin said came from police shooting rubber bullets, can be heard. The popping continues as the man turns around to walk away. Larkin and a crowd of spectators ran in the opposite direction of the police. Although it's unclear from the video whether the man is shot, Fells said he saw him get hit in the foot.

    Witnesses described an "older white woman" who also approached the cops. They didn't shoot at her, they simply asked her to turn around.



    Parent
    Can you hear (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:59:11 AM EST
    The dog whistles?

    Parent
    As to the last point.... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:02:26 AM EST
    In this context, I don't really care that the jaywalking was occurring. If anything, it just goes to the disrespect motive for Wilson shooting...Wilson just couldn't believe Brown wouldn't just go to the sidewalk when ordered to and it enraged him.

    As to your first point, 538.com ran a story on the demographics of Ferguson just this morning similar to what you wrote above.

    Parent

    Thanks, Magster (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by SuzieTampa on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:20:58 PM EST
    for the link to the 538 story, which was even more informative.

    I agree that Wilson was probably angered by the men's disrespect. I made the point because I saw others commenting as if this was no big deal. This also answers Anne's comment #4.

    For the rest of Anne's comments:
    1. I think it was the 538 article that used the term "internally integrated." In other words, black and white people are neighbors throughout the town, except for the SE corner with the low-income apt complexes, which is about 95% black.

    In some places, one area may be almost all white and another all black. Even if whites and blacks are 50-50, I would hardly call the place integrated.

    1. There's probably no way to convince you that a former journalist who had housing as a beat and often covered poverty and diversity might have some interest in these questions, other than secretly wanting black men dead.

    2. I don't have this breakdown of data, but the LA Times interviewed people in the SE corner who didn't like to go out at night and a woman who had her kids sleep on a mattress on the floor so that they wouldn't get hurt sleeping at window level. This thread also includes the example of someone who hears 10-11 shots in the daytime but still doesn't let it disturb him/her.

    3. I agree that community policing with a good rapport is a great thing. We don't have Wilson's side of the story in regard to the jaywalking.

    Returning to TalkLeft was a mistake. With Jeralyn siding with the prosecution on this case, commenters feel free to insinuate that those who disagree with them are racist, and comment threads fill up with people insulting one another. What I liked about TL on the Trayvon Martin case was that it was possible to question Ben Crump, etc., on a site that was liberal without name-calling. If I wanted to make racist comments, there are no shortage of sites in which to do so.

    Respond however you wish; I won't be reading anymore.

    Parent

    Prosecution? (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:32:44 PM EST
    With Jeralyn siding with the prosecution on this case, commenters feel free to insinuate that those who disagree with them are racist, and comment threads fill up with people insulting one another.

    That is a false statement. Jeralyn is not siding with the prosecution because there is no prosecution.

    And Jeralyn does not tolerate anyone calling another commenter racist. Those comments are deleted and the commenter is warned that they will be banned if continuing to call other commenters racist.

    It is wrong of you to suggest that calling commenters racist is supported by Jeralyn.

    Parent

    One of J's first Ferguson posts (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:39:29 PM EST
    The most unhelpful, over-the-top, incendiary description comes, not surprisingly, from lawyer Benjamin Crump, who is representing Brown's parents.

    "That baby was executed in broad daylight," ... Brown was shot and left in the road like an animal."

    Crump's histrionics aside, nothing released by the police today sheds any light on the police narrative of the shooting or what led up to it.



    Parent
    Jeralyn's had very little to say about (5.00 / 4) (#161)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:51:14 PM EST
    this case- although she has weighed in on the militarization of law enforcement - but she does not tolerate anyone calling anyone else a racist.

    And she hasn't had much nice to say about Ben Crump, either.

    My problem with your comments here is that I read along, and it all sounds fair and like you're on a quest for the truth, and then you backload it with what's really on your mind.  I understand that, having covered housing issues, you would have an interest in the demographics, but I don't know why or how that has anything to do with where Brown was living, who he was living with, or why he might not have been living with either parent.  

    As for insinuations, I think your comments are loaded with them, and you use your journalism background to make them sound more credible - and that bothers me, a lot.

    Parent

    Jeralyn has not sided with prosecution.... (none / 0) (#157)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:37:16 PM EST
    In fact, I expect that her to be very involved in defense strategies for Wilson if he's indicted.

    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#164)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:58:31 PM EST
    We'll see..

    Parent
    She has always approached high profile... (none / 0) (#165)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:05:30 PM EST
    cases from the defense point of view. I suppose if she sided with the prosecution, she'd just be silent about it instead of putting on a different hat.

    Parent
    We'll See (none / 0) (#168)
    by squeaky on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:14:28 PM EST
    Her nose for these kind of cases is sharp. IOW she can smell a rat a mile away.

    Parent
    I doubt it. Think of (none / 0) (#187)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:52:13 PM EST
    Vander Slooten. Polanski. Etc.  She is opining re possible defenses from her first post.

    Parent
    I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but (5.00 / 5) (#35)
    by Anne on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:46:01 AM EST
    here goes.

    1.    I think the fact that people use the term "majority" black means they understand quite well that the area is integrated.

    2.    Why does it matter where Brown was living or where his parents live?  I'm sorry, but I'm not buying your "I'm just curious" rationale, not about where Brown was living or about your sense that the media isn't being fair in reporting details.  It feels like you might believe that more details would reveal more things that will provide reasons why maybe it's not all that terrible that Brown is dead

    3.    You say there's a ton of crime in Ferguson, but how much of that is the result of police targeting blacks in order to fund the Ferguson PD?  

    4.    I don't recall reading any comments that said Brown and Johnson walking in the road wasn't a problem.  Do we know for a fact that Brown and Johnson were facing the direction Wilson was coming from?  Because I've had the impression that wasn't the case, and if I'm right, that means the 2 didn't see the vehicle until Wilson ordered them onto the sidewalk.

    5.    Finally, if Ferguson is a high-crime area, it would be that much more important for the police department to establish and foster good relations with the community, and I haven't seen much indication that such efforts were being made.  Further, a cop who reacts the way Wilson did to 2 people walking in the road has no business wearing a uniform or carrying a loaded weapon.

    Parent

    Brown's family (none / 0) (#172)
    by ragebot on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:40:54 PM EST
    situation is probably not probative in a specific case.  On the other hand there is a high correlation between growing up in a two parent family and low chance of going to jail (and by implication committing a crime).

    Not saying kids like Brown or Martin don't get the short end of the stick by not having a stable family environment to grow up in.  Just that kids that grow up in that family situation are more likely to wind up in jail.

    Parent

    Not that it is relevant, but has the media (none / 0) (#189)
    by oculus on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:55:33 PM EST
    reported why Brown lived with his grandmother as opposed to a9 parent?

    Parent
    You're right (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by sj on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:20:41 PM EST
    It's not relevant.

    It's really appalling how invasive the questions are. As if the public is entitled to all the personal details, not only of young Mr. Brown, but also his entire family.

    You're not alone in asking those nosy, invasive questions. And the tendency is not limited to this this case.

    It's just appalling, though.

    Parent

    Not that it is relevant, but...... (5.00 / 4) (#199)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:35:04 PM EST
    has the media reported the reasons behind  Wilson's divorce? Has the media reported when Wilson's relationship with his current live in girl friend began? Did it begin before or after the divorce?

    Has the media looked into whether or not Wilson had an argument with his ex wife or his girlfriend on the day he shot Brown?

    Guess a lot of irrelevant information may not have been reported.


    Parent

    And why is it (5.00 / 4) (#204)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:49:43 PM EST
    any kind of question whether "the media" has or hasn't reported where the he!! Michael Brown lived?
    I don't care if he was homeless and living under a bridge.  It does not seem to have anything to do with the question of whether the police response was appropriate or not.
    I am sure that Wilson had no idea where and with whom Brown lived when the incident occurred.


    Parent
    Mosul Dam (none / 0) (#11)
    by Jack203 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 09:51:38 AM EST
    Conflicting reports right now.  i'm skeptical ISIS took the dam back.   We should know more shortly, but let's hope that its not true as it would be pretty alarming that ISIS can still have the initiative and be on the offensive despite our help.

    Tripoli has fallen (none / 0) (#25)
    by Slado on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:23:53 AM EST
    Well that all worked out.

    Lybia

    Lead form the front, lead from behind.  Doesn't seem to make much of a difference.    

    Hmmm (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:27:47 AM EST
    The violence in Libya is rooted in the empowerment of militias.

    Seems there might be a lesson for us in there

    I was going to ask why would the set everything on fire but I see they are blaming each other.

    Parent

    Don't try to apply reason to this (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Slado on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:33:13 AM EST
    It's a free for all and it's ugly.

    It's a power struggle between many bad actors.  

    Sort of like Syria except we stepped in and removed the strong arm dictator from the equation.

    Parent

    Point taken (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:41:54 AM EST
    Yes, an (none / 0) (#181)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:22:09 PM EST
    uncivil, civil war.  A patchwork of rival cities and tribes--Arab tribes, Berbers, Circassin or Turkish ancestry.  Tripoli airport has fallen with the capture of the rubble, at least for the moment, by fighters from Misurata.  Storage tanks have been burning for at least a month.  Tripoli, itself, is on the brink.  Efforts to move the parliament to Tobruk failed. Benghazi is also under siege.

    The ideologies of the fractious militias do not seem very different, but differences there are, old scores to settle and of course, who gets the sweet oil.   Khalifa Hifter's momentum to eradicate the extreme Islamists seems to have stalled, but he can't be counted out.

    UAE pilots flying out of Egyptian airbases targeted Islamist fighters showing a step up of opposition to the movements.  Awareness of these attacks has been denied by the US, but, that seems unlikely.  What is more likely, is that Special Forces have provided intelligence that allowed the fighter jets to hit key militias.  

    This was, of course, started for humanitarian purposes, which, I called "Operation Hoodwink."   And, it when from there in accord with my expectations.

    Parent

    ISIS retakes Mosul dam link (none / 0) (#29)
    by Green26 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:33:00 AM EST
    in thread lead-in didn't work for me.

    If true (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jack203 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:45:38 AM EST
    not good.

    ISIS is a lot stronger than I thought and Peshmerga a lot weaker.

    Parent

    Let's wait for all the evidence (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:39:49 AM EST
    he was arrested for narcotics so he probably had marijuana in his system

    An autopsy report released this week cast further doubt on a police officer's claim that a suspect committed suicide by shooting himself while handcuffed in the back of a police cruiser, reports KATC.

    According to the first page of the official autopsy report released by the Iberia Parish Coroner's Office, Victor White III, 22, died from a gunshot to the chest, not in his back as reported by the arresting officer.

    White was arrested by State Police in March of this year on narcotics charges and, according to authorities, was handcuffed, with his hands behind his back, in the back seat of a police cruiser when he refused to exit the vehicle for processing. According to the police report, the arresting officer went to get help and when he returned he found White critically wounded from a gunshot wound to his back.

    Questions were immediately raised as to how White could have smuggled a gun into the cruiser and then managed to shoot himself in the back when left alone.

    Police believe that White had somehow hidden a gun in the backseat of the cruiser and committed suicide by shooting himself. White died shortly after, with police stating there were no surveillance cameras in that area of the parking lot where the car was parked.

    According to the autopsy report, the bullet entered White's chest, perforated his left lung and heart before exiting his armpit area and lacerating his upper arm.

    The report still lists his death as a suicide.



    Nobody told me... (none / 0) (#37)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:00:27 AM EST
    the Furthur bus was in town...far out man!  Good thing the police didn't have tanks or armored personnel carriers with gun turrets back in the 60's, the magic bus never woulda made it cross-country.

    Sorry I missed the bus, but I did get to see my boy Wavy Gravy this summer...so I can't complain.

    You were (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:19:27 AM EST
    Born too late

    Parent
    That's what my moms always said... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:30:32 AM EST
    a generation late and a nickel short my son.

    Can you even imagine a bus full of acid freaks roaming the American countryside today?  And what Fox News would have to say about it?  Sh*t I'm too police-state conditioned to put a Dead sticker on my bumper, never mind a full on freak show like the Furthur bus.  

    Parent

    The motto was (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:42:25 AM EST
    Let your freak flag fly

    Parent
    New motto is... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:45:52 AM EST
    Freak under the radar.  Like a Stealth Freak Bomber.

    Parent
    Not to be a buzz kill (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:05:33 PM EST
    but, there was another bus full of acid heads that did a tour back then: Charley, Squeaky, Sadie Mae, and Tex..

    All I can think of is what Keith said in his book in reference to Brian Jones, Peter Green, and Syd Barrett's burn-outs: Kesey may have a lot to answer for.

    I am a friggin' buzz kill, aren't I? Just can't help myself.

    I remember Dylan saying in reference to acid back then: the "groovy people" don't need it and the Nixons and William F Buckleys (who did need it) wouldn't take it.

    As you were ;-)

    Parent

    I am surprised to see you (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:12:36 PM EST
    Raise a zombie Nixonian/Ed Meese attack on an incredible era because of a handful of psychopaths.
    Shame on you.

    Parent
    Jeez did I ever say the whole era? (none / 0) (#57)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:22:58 PM EST
    Jim? (sorry, that was a total low blow I know.)

    Acid was way, way, too unpredictable and unprecedented in it's CIA-like applications imho. In confused young people who don't know who they are yet, it can induce a state of what psychologists refer to as "imprint vulnerability" - which is what Charley used it for and the CIA was trying to use it for.

    I know Kesey and Leary's hearts were in the right places, but again imho, thier heads were in some instances way, way, way up their as*ss.

    Though I don't blame 'em for searching for the Grail. Aren't we all doing that in all our own multifarious ways..

    Parent

    Have you ever taken acid (none / 0) (#61)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:33:34 PM EST
    Because honestly if you haven't you should it to people who have.  Like for example, me.
    I have taken acid hundreds of times.  It changed my life.  In profound ways that, unless you have taken it, you will NEVER understand.  Were there bad experiences, sure.  Those are excruciatingly well documented.
    What sadly is less well documented is the millions of lives that were change for the better and immeasurably improved by it.

    There is a reason psychedelics are sacred to many.

    Parent

    I took it about a twenty times (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:39:15 PM EST
    It works fine and dandy for some and wrecks havoc with others.

    I just don't think anyone needed it (except Kissinger and Nixon and co) the way Kesey and Leary made it sound at the time.

    I met Leary. He was a good, endlessly charismatic guy with a line of Irish blarney and horsesh*t a hundred miles long.

    Parent

    Leary used to come to Aspen and (5.00 / 4) (#173)
    by fishcamp on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:43:16 PM EST
    I skied with him many times.  He was pretty much an alcoholic.  Now Kesey was a different story.  He was pretty much always on acid.  I have 14 acres of land about 25 miles from his old spread in Springfield, Oregon.  We saw a lot of each other.  Damn fine person.

    Parent
    fishcamp, I think... (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by sj on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:35:08 PM EST
    ...your memoir would be fascinating without all the Hell's Angels stuff.

    Parent
    I suppose (none / 0) (#67)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:41:38 PM EST
    We agree to disagree.

    Parent
    PS (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:37:34 PM EST
    In very important ways psychadelics defined that era.

    Parent
    You what's psychedlic? (none / 0) (#69)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:43:21 PM EST
    the five hundred year old willow tree down the street from me.

    And the fact that we're on a rock traveling through infinite space as we speak.

    And love and great sex. But that's just me. Everybody's different: there's another interesting, psychedelic fact..

    Your fine brother.

    Parent

    Yes... (none / 0) (#79)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:01:37 PM EST
    but have you gazed at that willow on acid? ;)

    I never truly understood how alive a tree really is till I climbed one on acid (or was that 'shrooms?)...I could literally feel the motherf*cker breathing.  Couldn't tell where the tree ended and I began.  I still visit that tree whenever I'm around Cunningham Park.  We are brothers.

    But of course, Timmy and Kenny probably assumed too much about the species as a whole benefitting...some people shouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole, and I had the misfortune of journeying with one or two of those types of people.  It takes a certain je ne sais quoi, if you will.
     

    Parent

    The thing is (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:13:10 PM EST
    I don't need to. It's so effing Real already it's almost overwhelming.

    But, different strokes 'fer different folks.

    Why do you suppose Keith said that about Kesey? Any thoughts on that?

    And spare me the "because he's the ultimate burn-out". I just heard Tumbling Dice awhile ago and that didn't sound very burnt-out to me.

    Parent

    As I said above.... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:27:19 PM EST
    Kesey and Leary assumed too much...I certainly wouldn't go evangelical for psychedelics as the answer to the world's prayers.  Just an answer to mine, in moderation, in select conditions...void where prohibited;)

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#82)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:08:29 PM EST
    It's mind expanding.  So you need at base a mind to expand.

    Parent
    Yes I get it (none / 0) (#88)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:14:31 PM EST
    you deep, me not.

    Well, we all knew that already, didn't we?

    Parent

    That response was to kdog (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:21:17 PM EST
    O.k (none / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:23:12 PM EST
    Funny story..sort of (none / 0) (#92)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:22:42 PM EST
    we all took acid at a Zappa concert and had a phenomenal time except for one guy who KNEW Zappa was singling him out in the audience and mocking him. He kept trying to stand on his seat and scream "F*ck you, Zappa!" through almost the whole concert.

    I'm wondering if we hadn't been there if he would've charged the stage. The post-Lennon Frank might not have been as amused at that story..

    Parent

    On Hot Rats (I thnk) (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:29:49 PM EST
    There is a guy screaming in fvck you in the audience and Zappa says

    -you'll hurt your throat.  Stop it.

    Your friend?

    Parent

    I so wanna say his name (none / 0) (#104)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:38:05 PM EST
    for some reason. But then I'm worried someone would google it and find out he drove a forklift through a group of nuns or something.

    Parent
    Sorry (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:45:32 PM EST
    burnt Weenie Sandwich - little house I used to Live
    I remember now.  He was in a army uniform.

    Thank you, good night...

    Thank you

    If you, if you sit down and be quiet, we'll make an attempt to, ah, perform Brown Shoes Don't Make It.  

    (Back on your seats, come on, we'll help you back to your seats, come on...)

    (Oh! Go away! Take that uniform off man! Or I'll take your uniform before it's too late man!)

    Everybody in this room is wearing a uniform and don't kid yourself!
    (............man!)

    You'll hurt your throat, stop it!



    Parent
    I know at another concert (none / 0) (#143)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:49:36 PM EST
    another one of my lunatic associates hit Frank with a bunch of carrots and screamed "Calling Any Vegetable!" (and the vegetable will respond to you..)

    That poor guy. Man, how I miss him. Frank, I mean.

    Parent

    Somebody needed... (none / 0) (#103)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:37:55 PM EST
    to stay in Joe's Garage, where there is no dope or LSD, just a coupla quartsa beer....

    Parent
    I think I may have (none / 0) (#74)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:50:55 PM EST
    mentioned this before, but one of my brothers used to attend every Dead concert he reasonably could (when he was in college).
    He would sell his tie-dyed T-shirts at each concert, so he could make money to get to the next concert.   ;-)
    I still have one of the tie-dyes he gave me, although it's quite a bit worn.  Are you implying that maybe I shouldn't wear it on my next visit to NYC, along with my old bell-bottom jeans and my Birkenstocks?


    Parent
    You'll be allright... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:16:51 PM EST
    as I imagine their won't be any reefer in your bell bottom pockets...extreme caution must be exercised by a guy like me in the nation's marijuana possession arrest capital.  A Dead sticker on the bumper may as well be a neon sign that reads "pull me over, easy overtime!".

    Parent
    Do you still fit into those old (none / 0) (#76)
    by caseyOR on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:55:40 PM EST
    bell bottoms? Because if you do, I am so insanely envious. :-)

    Parent
    Which reminds me (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:05:13 PM EST
    When I weighed in this morning I was 199.8.  Which is the first time I have been below 200 since, well, EVER.  Or at least since the 70s.  The 80s was the gym decade so even though I was 220-230 my waist was smaller than now.  
    So
    I ran to the closet to dig out some jeans I have no fitted into in ages and slipped is no prob.

    I feel great and enjoying becoming reacquainted with body parts I have not seen without a mirror in a very long time.

    Parent

    How tall are you? (none / 0) (#188)
    by Dadler on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 05:52:53 PM EST
    As crass as asking your age in relation to weight, but what can I say? Me a-hole.


    Parent
    No worries (none / 0) (#190)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:04:01 PM EST
    A smidgen under 6'
    5'11"3/4

    Parent
    I guess I'm kind of bulky (none / 0) (#192)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 06:07:06 PM EST
    As long as I can remember when I tell people my weight they say I don't look like I weigh that much.

    And at one point ( many years ago) I was pretty solid and that weighs more than fat.  But I still have a bit if that left in the upper body especially.

    Parent

    Sadly, no (none / 0) (#78)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:59:39 PM EST
    The t-shirt I can still squeeze into (barely, and it's skin tight), but not the jeans.
    ;-)

    Parent
    No I'm implying you should come (none / 0) (#77)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:57:56 PM EST
    to my house and you can be the enchantress Circe. Or maybe in the next life. ;-)

    Parent
    I have sort of always thought of myself (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:32:09 PM EST
    as Athena, goddess of wisdom, law and justice, and just warfare.
    Or maybe Hecate, goddess of the night, magic, and witchcraft.
    ;-)

    Parent
    I love it (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:07:55 PM EST
    I go from "go back to Cuba, America-hater!" to "go back to the set of the Brady Bunch sixties-hater!"..

    Some days you can't win.

     

    Parent

    Jack Black taught us that! (none / 0) (#90)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:18:43 PM EST
    Everybody I've turned on to "You Just Can't Win" since you turned me on to it has loved it jondee.  

    Parent
    where's the nearest (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:24:56 PM EST
    Chinese laundry/opium den?

    I deserve a break today..

    Parent

    Oh opium... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:31:08 PM EST
    why is the good smokeable variety not around?

    Oh yeah, drug war....bastards!

    Wanna talk about the pusher man, forget Leary, nobody can hold a candle to the British Empire.  Nobody.  

    Parent

    Did you see this. I posted a couple (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:34:33 PM EST
    of threads ago

    Movie about the Reagan administrations responsibility for the crack explosion of the 80s

    Parent

    I had not... (none / 0) (#114)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:51:56 PM EST
    but that was no secret.

    Parent
    Contras.. (none / 0) (#138)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 02:45:20 PM EST
    anti-Castro Cubans in Miami Beach..

    Ollie North the super patriot with a nod-nod, wink-wink attitude about crack pouring into the inner cities..

    As long as the money went to fight communism. If you wanna make an omelet, you have to Crack a few neighborhoods..a few families..a few disposable poor people..For Jesus and the Flag.

    Parent

    Nick Tosches (none / 0) (#101)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:35:03 PM EST
    wrote an article in Esquire about traveling through the Golden Triangle for months and not being able to find the raw stuff even there.

    Then he finally did. So the story had a happy ending. Heart-warming in fact. ;-)

    Parent

    Too much money... (none / 0) (#111)
    by kdog on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:47:51 PM EST
    in the garbage I guess...what a shame.

    Parent
    Who here (none / 0) (#174)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:48:39 PM EST
    Has told you either to go back to Cuba, or go back to the Brady Bunch?
    Just asking, jondee.     ;-)

    Parent
    Tie-died clothes are back and (none / 0) (#87)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:14:10 PM EST
    Birkenstocks are still the choice of some of my very unhippie like friends. So if you visit here you would just be "styling."

    I do have a NEW tie-dye shirt but I never wore Birkenstocks since I never found them to be comfortable.

    Parent

    I have (none / 0) (#108)
    by Zorba on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:44:21 PM EST
    a pair of Birkenstock sandals and a pair of their clogs.  They just seem to fit my feet right.  
    I, too, have a new tie-dye t-shirt.
    Clothing and shoes aside, my friends still call me an "aging hippie."  Although, at this point, I'm more of an "old hippie."
    ;-)

    Parent
    Zorba, you're not old until age 75 :) (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by fishcamp on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:53:02 PM EST
    "Bum-rush" allegation and self-defense (none / 0) (#43)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 11:35:56 AM EST
    It could never be proven, but if Wilson is firing his gun illegally or improperly when chasing brown, and then wounds Brown in this illegal gun shooting, does Brown then have the right to claim self-defense and try to stop being shot at? Or can one never claim self-defense when a cop is in the course of exercising his duties?

    Un-friggin'-believeable.. (none / 0) (#53)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:12:00 PM EST
    the NRAs top lawyer is a former "bad guy with a gun", who is damn lucky there were so many gun free zones back then in the early sixties..

    More evidence that truth is stranger and more surreal than fiction.

    I guess you could say it's nice that he (almost) turned his life around.

    Am I the only one who never heard this before?

    Parent

    It is a conumdrum (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:18:07 PM EST
    Since the more one fights back, the more the police can claim they are endangered and thus "justified".

    Probably all depends on how it starts...so we are back to square one.

    Parent

    Politico-where's the wave (none / 0) (#154)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:29:46 PM EST
    Interesting.  As usual with REPUBLICO I think the story is a bit less rosy for republicans than painted.

    Politics
    Surf's Up
    Will there be a GOP wave in the Senate--or a wipeout?
    By LARRY J. SABATO, KYLE KONDIK and GEOFFREY SKELLEY
    August 25, 2014


    That it's so close in CO and IA (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:34:37 PM EST
    has me very nervous. Ernst and Gardner are such whack-a-doos, but Udall and Braley just can't get any traction.

    Being more exposed to Udall by living in CO, I think he really needs to expose Gardner on more than just women's issues and actively court the latino vote and respond to the attack ads on the ACA to energize the base. The ACA has actually been very effective in CO, and Udall's running scared on the issue. Very frustrating.

    Parent

    Typical (none / 0) (#159)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:46:43 PM EST
    anti Pryor Obamacare ad

    and the surprising response

    The air is saturated with the tired stupid lies.  And I do mean saturated.  Must be 10-1 against Pryor.  I don't think it's working.

    Parent

    Let's try that again (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:51:42 PM EST
    to me, the very slight pause between the first and second shots seems too short to support Dorian Johnson's description of Wilson firing at Brown from inside the SUV and then getting out of the SUV and firing at him more as Brown was running away.

    makes Johnson a liar, it's very possible that he described that minute detail un-clearly or got a little mixed up, considering what he had been through.

    Parent
    Not sure the tape (none / 0) (#176)
    by ragebot on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 04:54:42 PM EST
    will be allowed in as evidence.  Not saying it is wrong either.

    But from the start I have been waiting the GSR evidence.  If a gun was fired inside the cop car there should be GSR.  If the gun was fired close to Wilson's leg as was claimed by a friend of a friend there should be GSR on Wilson's pants.  If Brown was trying to grab/grabbing Wilson's gun there might well be GSR on Brown's hand/arm.  If Brown's hand/arm was hit by a bullet while he was reaching inside the cop car there should be GSR on Brown's hand arm.  Baden said while he found no GSR on Brown's body he had no chance to examine Brown's clothes for GSR and if it existed that would be where it would be.

    While some folks explain the GSR plume as like a spray bottle of Windex in some ways it is more like emptying a vacuum cleaner.  There can be a real mess if you put your hand/what ever in it and spread it around.

    Parent

    get propelled out of the barrel pretty forcefully, but the smaller pieces can end up floating around like dust.

    Personally, I wouldn't put a lot a stock in much of anything Baden said, except his opinion that the shot in the forehead was the probable cause of death.

    Baden looked at the body in the funeral home after the ME had already gone over the whole body and then released the body to the funeral home where it was definitely embalmed and possibly also cleaned (since that's what funeral homes do) before Baden even arrived.

    The ME is the one who actually took various samples and sent them to labs for analysis, etc., etc.

    Parent

    Thread full and note to commenters (none / 0) (#205)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 10:21:22 PM EST
    This thread is full, there is a new one on the Brown audio.

    Also, to new commenters (regular commenters already know this):  you may not rate a comment as a "1" solely because you disagree with the point of view expressed. "1" ratings are for spam or trolls. I can only delete all ratings by a specific person, not individual ones. I just deleted all ratings by someone who was doing this.

    Also, since comments are now closed and I cannot "thread" a reply to comments above stating I have sided with "the prosecution" in the Brown case, I'll just put here that (1) there is no prosecution and (2) I have not taken any sides or expressed an opinion as to whether the officer should be charged. I have been very focused on ISIS and not followed Brown as closely as commenters here --I really don't have an opinion. My interest in Brown up until now has been more on the over-militarized response to the protests and the release of the alleged robbery reports and video than on the potential criminal case.

    My interest in most cases is more in the fairness of the proceedings and media distortions than in the actual guilt or innocence of any particular defendant. I will continue to follow major developments in Brown, and when I do have an opinion, I'll say so.