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Saturday Open Thread

Congratulations to Chelsea Clinton and husband Marc Mezvinsky -- now the proud parents of Charlotte Clinton Mezvinsky.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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  • Am I Allowed to Say Here (5.00 / 13) (#5)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:28:20 PM EST
    Congratulations (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:54:01 PM EST
    I can only imagine how exciting it was to be part of creating a piece of history. Your book must be icing on the cake. Once again, congratulations.

    Parent
    Congratulations! (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Anne on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 11:47:10 PM EST
    I always wondered about your screen name, and now it all makes sense.

    I think it's a pretty rare thing to be both good at something, and good at writing about it, so hat's off to you for this great accomplishment!

    Parent

    Congrats!! (none / 0) (#6)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:36:46 PM EST
    I am tempted to buy it even though I have no interest in the subject, just the author!

    Hope it flies off the shelves..

    Parent

    Excellent (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:45:50 PM EST
    Well, all right (none / 0) (#10)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:18:19 PM EST
    Since I obviously am allowed to mention it, here is a review of the work.

    Even better, my publishers have posted a .pdf of a sample chapter, which you may view here.

    Parent

    That's great (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:33:11 PM EST
    you pictured on the bike?  I live on a mountain and own a mountain bike.  Nothing special and I don't ride it as much as I should bug I love it.

    Do you have a FB page to share?

    Parent

    FB Page (none / 0) (#24)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:26:56 PM EST
    My nephew had already liked your (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:37:27 PM EST
    page.  Such a trendsetter.

    Parent
    Nice (none / 0) (#16)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:43:52 PM EST
    Reads really well...  love the bike pic floating in a white background!!..

    I think you have a (another) winner on your hands..

    Parent

    As I am just now drinking a Fat Tire beer... (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:41:36 PM EST
    This is very interesting to me. I liked mountain biking when I was young and in shape.  Looks like an interesting read!

    Parent
    The Knick? (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:45:16 PM EST
    Will watch my recording in a little bit! (none / 0) (#20)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:49:06 PM EST
    Wow, that was intense. (none / 0) (#29)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:47:18 PM EST
    Stupid mob violence stuff just gets me mad, but that was well done...and the last couple of scenes...whew!!!!!

    Ttivia fact, do you know the actress that plays Nurse Elkins is Bono's daughter?

    Parent

    Did not (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:50:48 PM EST
    but I love her.  Soderbergh I very good at using accents without condescending.   Does that Mean her actual accent is Irish?  If so amazing.  Her southern is perfect.

    Parent
    Cool, I watched a movie documentary thing (none / 0) (#37)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:33:14 PM EST
    This week about INXS. It wasn't what I would call great but it had a scene with Michael Hutchence partying with Bono.  Just the two of them.  I miss looking at Michael Hutchence.

    Parent
    Captain America-Winter Soldier (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:36:19 PM EST
    if you and the whelp have not seen this put it on the list.   A+ popcorn with a brain and conscience.  

    Parent
    Also (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:39:05 PM EST
    We did theater that one (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:42:26 PM EST
    And he took his buds and his dad was home for a short spell too when it came out.  But it is a rent at home and see again movie too.  I did not realize it was available.  Tomorrow!

    Parent
    Have you seen this (none / 0) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:08:27 PM EST
    Bad Lip Reading - Game of Thrones

    Love these.  Also -

    Bad Lip Reading - Walking Dead

    Empty your mouth before watching.   Fair warning.

    Parent

    Oops (none / 0) (#28)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:43:00 PM EST
    thats the old Walking Dead

    here's the new one

    Parent

    Your warning definitely needed... (none / 0) (#32)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:57:13 PM EST
    that was hysterical...people are so clever.

    Peter and Terry were my favorites. And..."Psych!"

    And gees how much younger they all looked in the earlier ones.

    Parent

    Congrats, Repack (none / 0) (#44)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:16:37 PM EST
    So... this means we can ask you biking questions.

    Parent
    Congratulations!! (none / 0) (#45)
    by Angel on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:25:45 PM EST
    FAR OUT! (none / 0) (#49)
    by desertswine on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:51:44 PM EST
    Bought!! (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 10:20:43 PM EST
    When I'm finished will pass it on to CrossFit niece

    Parent
    Weren't some of you just talking about (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:45:11 PM EST
    farm accidents the other day?  James Traficant died today - had a heart attack on a tractor and it rolled over, pinning him underneath. He was such a colorful character, to say the least, I would not expect him to go out easy. RIP to him and peace to his family.

    Me. Too bad. (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:47:27 PM EST
    strange way for him to go.  Would have expected toupee poisoning.

    Parent
    Bounty Mutiny looks like not lead poisoning (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Lfrieling on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:29:35 PM EST
    Inspired by the great input in reaction to my rantings about lead poisoning and the Bounty Mutiny, I have started reading the Bligh report of the voyage.  So far, it is a great read.

    As to the lead issue, here's what I've learned so far from the Bligh account and illustrations.  Large areas of the deck of the specially-designed ship had large lead trays on large areas of the decks.  Above these trays were wooden racks which, in the illustrations, look like someone took 4x8 plywood sheets and made large floor areas, sitting in the lead pans, perhaps a foot above the deck.  The platforms/racks had large holes drilled  and into which the plant pots with trees would be set.  Additionally, the lead trays had valves to permit any water in the trays from run-off to be drained an used for ship's purposes.

    The water would not have been in the lead trays until the bread fruit trees were on board in their pots in the racks set above the lead trays.  The bread fruit was not on board on the voyage "out," since they were going to fetch it, not to deliver it.  SO, on the one hand, given the lifetime accumulation of heavy metals and the concomitant lead poisoning, it could have been an issue, the exposure from the specific voyage seems minimal.  

    Additionally, on the voyage "out," there was a large amount of rain, and collected water sounded quite sufficient on the outbound leg.  

    The Bounty was commissioned particularly for picking up and delivering bread fruit trees.  It had a huge 24' beam.  Because it was built for such a specific purpose, I have to wonder how many others were built, and how many other lead pan water systems were on other ships.   I suspect not many.  Lenny

    Fletcher Christian was eventually ... (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 09:07:43 PM EST
    ... murdered at age 29 in September 1793, ostensibly by one of the Tahitians who had been virtually enslaved by Christian and his men on Pitcairn Island.

    And contrary to the narrative license invoked by screenwriters for the 1935 version of Mutiny on the Bounty, which had William Bligh summarily discharged from His Majesty's naval service for the offense of being that film's primary villain, Bligh's career actually continued apace after his return to England. He rose steadily through the Royal Navy's ranks, eventually attaining the lofty post of a line admiral (Vice Admiral of the Blue) in 1814. He died peacefully in London in December 1817, at age 63.

    Aloha.

     

    Parent

    Bligh is also noteworthy (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 10:36:32 PM EST
    ...for his feat of sailing the small boat over 3500 miles after the mutiny.  His voyage ranks with Shackleton's as the other greatest example of navigation in maritime history.

    Parent
    3500 nautical mile day sail (none / 0) (#196)
    by Lfrieling on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:51:37 PM EST
    I too noted that although the first stop made by Captn Bligh and crew, after having been set adrift in the ship's boat, made their first landfall only 30 or so nautical miles away.  Piece of cake, right?  

    The hostile reception killed one crewmember.  Then, without losing another crew member, Bligh and the boat and crew traveled 3500 nautical miles to a safe landing.  As noted above, this is an absolutely mind-boggling feat of sailing.  As a long-time amateur sailor, I can easily say that I cannot even remotely imagine this trip.  Lenny

    Parent

    Chelsea Clinton (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 07:21:00 PM EST
    had a baby girl yesterday. The pics up are great!


    Open letter to Fox News (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by MO Blue on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 07:51:46 PM EST
    Sixty men and women of the U.S. Armed Forces sign onto a letter blasting Fox News hosts who made sexist jokes about a female fighter pilot from the UAE who led her country's airstrikes against ISIL.

    {http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/an-open-letter-to-fox-news}

    Outlander finale-Previously TV (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 09:44:44 PM EST
    Stray Notes

    STILL DIGGING IT? Here we are at the end of the first half, and Outlander is still a delight. I'll definitely be watching the second half. HOWEVER, there has to be something besides rape. I get that it would've been a very real danger for a woman back then, but so would, I don't know, disease, lightning, gopher holes. For the second half of the season, I'd be deeeeelighted to never see another rape, attempted rape, or threat of rape.



    Something seriously wrong with this country (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 02:21:11 PM EST
    if the contrast of this story
    With the WalMart BeeBee gun shooting doesn't make it clear to you this country has gone off the rails there is something wrong with you.
    Is there a way back?

    Leonard Embody is no stranger to police.

    He's been arrested or detained numerous times for walking around town with guns. His charges were all eventually dismissed, which may explain why he wasn't arrested on Wednesday as he paraded up and down the sidewalk in front of Hillsboro High School.

    Witnesses say Embody was pacing Hillsboro Road, dressed much like a soldier, and it had a lot of people nervous. So nervous that 911 dispatchers had their hands full.

    "He had a rifle across his back, and a Go Pro attached to his chest. I just thought that was kind of peculiar," one caller said.

    Peculiar? Yes. Unheard of? Not so much.




    I Think SUO was Trying to Locate... (none / 0) (#97)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:11:04 AM EST
    ...some link stating this was bunk.

    Not sure if he was looking for something stating white people who carry gun in public get shot by cops as well.

    He never made the point, only referred to my posting stating that even if Crawford has a real gun, he was in an area where it's OK to openly display it, as bunk.

    Cops shoot black people at a far greater rate than white people with everything else being equal, IMO.  Which has formed over hundreds of stories like the two mentioned in this thread.

    Parent

    Whether we like it or not (none / 0) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:21:17 AM EST
    Leonard was not breaking the law.

    Parent
    Neither was the guy in WalMart (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:00:00 PM EST
    which is what some might call " the point."

    And it's not bunk.   That was a local story from TN.

    Parent

    Capt... (none / 0) (#149)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:00:49 PM EST
    ...the bunk part was me stating something like white folks can openly carry in public, but black folks get shot for carrying beebee guns in a store.

    Again, SUO wrote it was an urban legend or myth or something like that, but did not expand.

    Parent

    Yes it was a local story..... (none / 0) (#150)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:07:11 PM EST
    Elise Stevens ·  Top Commenter · George Peabody College
    According to my brother-the-gun-nut, Embody has stated on gun forums (from which he was subsequently banned) that his purpose is to get police to do something for which he can sue them and make a lot of money. I think he's the opposite of insecure - totally arrogant.

    Tennessean

    Parent

    Wolves revitalize ecosystem (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 03:02:30 PM EST
    Amazing and beautiful. (5.00 / 1) (#85)
    by desertswine on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 09:38:45 PM EST
    Incredible! (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by squeaky on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 10:17:27 PM EST
    Wow...thanks for sharing that one...

    Here is a great myth buster about wolf packs and the notion of alpha leaders.. Great read..

     

    The alpha-beta-omega model of wolf packs is dead in scientific literature, hammered into the ground, so to speak, and it's been dead for over ten years. So why am I still hearing about it on TV and reading about it in articles? Why are popular dog trainers that encourage you to "be the alpha" still taken seriously?

    KORYOS WRITES

    Parent

    Very Cool... (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:13:02 AM EST
    ...but it doesn't mention how they made the animals, in particular the bison, much more robust and a much healthier species that is doing much better after the wolves were brought back.

    There is a 3 part series on Netflix about Yellowstone wildlife.  In detail, they cover how wolves and wildfires rejuvenate and protect life in the park.

    They follow the wolves and it's very interesting in they have a pack called the Druid pack, that is the only pack in all of the world known to hunt and take down animals the size of bison.  And how in the summer the wolves are thin and struggle while everyone else is getting fat for the winter.  But then in the winter, the wolves are the ones getting fat because everyone else is struggling.

    It also cover how the landscape at Yellowstone actually make the bison prone to starvation/disease because the colder it gets the closer they heard around warm areas, areas with volcanic features.  But those feature actually wear their teeth down, sulphur I think, in the water and plants, so without the wolves taking out the weak, disease was much more rampant than bison outside the park.

    Ditto for wild fires, they actually kill relatively small numbers of animals, but ensure that a wild fire cannot happen in that areas for something like 30 years.  It also show how the magic number of I think 25 seconds, the time it take a wildfire to go through a pine tree, and how that is precisely the time it take a pine cone to drop it seeds.  Longer and the seeds burn, shorter and the sap doesn't melt and the seeds don't fall.  Or how a certain bird plants like 10,000 seeds all over the park for winter and manages to locate like 80% of them, with the remaining seeds sprouting new life.

    The series also covers the migration or elk and antelope outside the park, and how the local ranchers are working with the park officials to figure how to allow animals to migrate naturally without infringing on the ranchers business.

    Nature is much like an organism, where all the parts work hand and hand, all interconnected and necessary for the best chance of survival.

    Yellowstone: Battle for Life

    It funny how we can verifiable proof that removing any part of the food chain seriously screws up the environment and still wipe out species after species in the name of progress.

    When I was in Red Lodge, MT there was Hunting Guide store clerk explaining why they are poisoning rivers to get ride of some sort of trout because people like another kind of trout much better.  He mentioned it kills everything in the river and I was stunned, we were a mile outside Yellowstone.

    The other odd thing is this video and series on Netflix are British based.

    Parent

    Scott, your report is every good but (none / 0) (#121)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:01:28 PM EST
    the guide was slightly misinformed as to why they are poisoning the rivers because people like another type of trout much better.  In many western rivers, and other rivers in the world, trout become infected with a parasite that causes what they call Whirling Disease.  The infected fish swim in a corkscrew like manner and can't feed properly.  When they die they release this parasite into the water thus infecting more fish.  It's a dastardly event but the poisons they are perfecting mostly kill only the fingerlings and leave the larger fish alone to breed.  The introduction of wolves to Yellowstone hit many barriers with local ranchers but they thankfully finally accepted the wolves.  Unfortunately the wolves that do stray from the park are often shot and killed or die in traps.

    Parent
    w/o doing any research (none / 0) (#125)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:09:38 PM EST
    I'm pretty sure that if a gvt agency is poisoning streams/rivers outside of Yellowstone it is to remove non-native species in favor of native species.

    Parent
    OK, I just googled. (none / 0) (#127)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:13:39 PM EST
    He Was Talking to My Brother... (none / 0) (#130)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:25:53 PM EST
    ...who is a serious hunter and they were talking above me at times.  So that could be a possibility.  But the point is they poisoned the entire river to get rid of one species of trout.

    Which regardless of who does it, is just so white man, to believe that poisoning a river is somehow good, that we can control the environment or even understand it.

    That video pretty much proves that we know jack about the environment and how little we know about how it all connects.  And it seems like every time we believe we have the solution, more times than not it does more harm or simply fails.

    fishcamp. There was no mention of disease.

    Parent

    It has been done many times before. (none / 0) (#133)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:34:51 PM EST
    And it usually works well.

    Parent
    My Point Stands (none / 0) (#138)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:51:41 PM EST
    From you link.

    Fast forward to the present time. Now the NPS wants only native species of fish and has resorted to killing non-native fish by means of poison, mandatory kill regulations, and even electro-fishing to remove non-native fish. I don't understand why this is happening, as it was the NPS of Yellowstone who put those non-native fish in Yellowstone's waters over 100 years ago.

    The species they are trying to wip out has been there for a 100 years, it not a new invasive species, so the only reason to remove them are because they like another species better.

    Parent

    Yeah, they want the native species back. (none / 0) (#139)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:59:29 PM EST
    And the only way to do that is wipe out the invasive species. It's been done before and it works pretty well.

    Parent
    It's not Invasive... (none / 0) (#143)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:09:58 PM EST
    ...if it's been there for 100 years.

    Parent
    Oh, btw. The poison, rotenone, (none / 0) (#136)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:40:46 PM EST
    is derived from native plants and was used by native americans to "fish" long before "white" people were here.

    Parent
    Yeah, and Any Race Can... (none / 0) (#142)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:09:07 PM EST
    ...purposely spread chicken pox via gifts, but it's still a white man's war tactic no matter who uses it.

    Much like the idea that we can control the environment.  Again, all races try it to some degree, we are the only idiots who truly believe we can control, contain, and change mother nature via destoying life, aka poison.

    Indians were doing it to get dinner, not wip out an entire species for one they want more.

    Parent

    c'mon you guys... (none / 0) (#159)
    by fishcamp on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:45:02 PM EST
    just look up Whirling Disease.

    Parent
    Fishcamp, this particular instance (none / 0) (#162)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 03:02:37 PM EST
    is not about whirling disease, it's about removing non-native brook, brown and rainbow trout and restoring native trout, mostly cutthroat.

    Not surprisingly, the non-native fish have messed up the local environment.

    For example:

    Since their discovery in the lake in 1994, lake trout have depleted Yellowstone cutthroat populations, which serve as a keystone species for a great deal of wildlife surrounding that area.

    Between 1995 and 2000, there were approximately 30 to 60 known osprey nests around the lake. Twenty years later, osprey nest numbers have dropped to around three or four. The reason, Hallac says, is the drop in Yellowstone cutthroat. Since cutthroat are more of a surface fish than the deep-dwelling lake trout, osprey have fewer fish to eat on the surface.

    The park found that the drop of cutthroat in the lake has also dwindled spawning numbers in tributaries, which has adversely impacted bear visitation to these tributaries as well.

    "Bears have dropped from 50 (visits a day) to next to none now," Hallac said. "Our numbers of spawning cutthroat and bears have gone to almost zero.



    Parent
    Not to Point Out the Obvious... (none / 0) (#174)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:39:36 PM EST
    ...but they aren't poisoning the lake, which from what I hear is far worse problem, which several rangers indicated is nearing catastrophic as far as the ecosystem in the lake.

    As far as I know they are allowing anyone to fish as much as they want, no catch a release, just take.  And that is actually a recent issue related to people putting them in the lake rather then the species getting their on their own.

    But that is a huge problem as they eat eggs of all the competitors.  Without looking at the data, and just using observation I would imagine that most of the surrounding environment is also down because it was recently burned out, as in nothing but a lot of standing, but burned out trees that to me looked to be less than 2 or 3 years old, but I do not know.  But on the northern side it was a good portion of the lake area.

    No link to the info above to see if that is part of the reduction in populations of wildlife, or if it's all due to man.

    Parent

    Non-native fish mess up the river/stream environment just like they do in lakes. Rotenone has been used successfully in lakes as well as rivers/streams for years.

    Parent
    Ferguson demands (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 07:35:18 AM EST
    Ferguson demands high fees to turn over city files

    This what happens when they can't make all that  money on those traffic tickets anymore.

    To Jim (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 30, 2014 at 11:33:56 AM EST
    who said I "make things up"..

    You said the same thing when I mentioned your sleazy attempt to smear Holder with the Black Panthers.

    Your problem seems to be that you've gotten to the point where you can't keep track of your lies anymore. It's like trying to count the salmon going by during spawning season. Does the Heritage Foundation refund you a nickel for each one you tell or something?

    NY Post link (none / 0) (#1)
    by ragebot on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 02:26:14 PM EST
    Lots of other links if you use google.  Would love to see something happen about this.

    FED gets a pass

    We can hope.. I think I'll send your link to (none / 0) (#2)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:03:04 PM EST
    Senator Corker and Alexander. They're claiming they want to do something.

    Parent
    I think I can save you some time and trouble: (none / 0) (#11)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:26:21 PM EST
    Open Secrets Bob Corker Campaign Finance Money.

    Cycle Fundraising, 2009 - 2014, Campaign Cmte
    Raised:     $12,262,352     Sparklines Explanation coming soon
    Spent:     $6,308,920    
    Cash on Hand:     $5,737,661    
    Debts:     $0    
    Last Report:     Monday, June 30, 2014

    Top 5 Contributors, 2009 - 2014, Campaign Cmte

    Contributor    Total    Indivs    PACs

    Powell Construction    $82,500    $82,500    $0

    Welsh, Carson et al    $66,400    $65,400    $1,000
    JPMorgan Chase & Co    $61,750    $51,750 $10,000

    Hercules Holding    $53,000    $43,000    $10,000

    FedEx Corp    $48,200    $43,200    $5,000

    I'm sure that Chase has the best interests of their clients and employees in TN when they made their donations to Senator Corker.

    (Sarcasm alert)

    Parent

    Not that I think they will care (none / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 11:45:02 AM EST
    But at least they'll know I know.

    Parent
    I'm sure they'll put your interests (none / 0) (#67)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 11:49:27 AM EST
    above those of their donors if you just use the right wording when you write to them.

    Parent
    Who knows? (none / 0) (#72)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 12:22:37 PM EST
    If we are not willing to engage those we elect by telling them when they are wrong.....what use are we as citizens?????????

    Parent
    Didn't say that, just that he cares (none / 0) (#75)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 12:44:15 PM EST
    More about the contributions from Chase et al than from the citizens who voted him into office.  If you can't see that, then you're denying the reality of the situation,

    Parent
    When Jim said... (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by unitron on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 07:08:36 PM EST
    ..."Not that I think they will care...", I thought it made it pretty clear that he was well aware that congresscritters care more about corporate contributions than the lowly voters.

    Parent
    Why are you engaging me on this?? (2.00 / 1) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 03:07:40 PM EST
    My comment was straight forward and contained nothing of a controversy nature.

    It is easy to see that you just want to pick a fight and always have the last word.

    Parent

    I'm just telling the truth here, James (none / 0) (#89)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:13:45 AM EST
    If you can't stand the truth, perhaps you should be angry at your Senator and the Chase Bank instead of taking your anger on the messenger of that news.

    Parent
    What you are doing is (none / 0) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:31:18 AM EST
    following me and looking for a reason to start a fight.

    Be my guest. It shows who you are.

    Parent

    you know what they say (none / 0) (#182)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 05:34:09 PM EST
    Before the game begins, look around the table.  If you can't find the mark, chances are you're it.

    I'm suggesting you use opensecrets(dot)com toward that end, so you don't have any illusions about them in the future.

    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:18:28 PM EST
    To keep things interesting, I have taken the liberty of rewriting some famous scenes from classic books and movies with this new definition of confrontation in mind.

    Gandalf, regulating the Balrog:
    "You shall not PASS!"
    The Fed, regulating the Balrog:
    "Just to button up one point -- it seems like you're maybe considering sort of circumventing some of the usual obstacles here, and I'm -- if you could consider instead of passing, perhaps, an alternative -- how does that maybe strike you?"

    Batman asking the Joker where Rachel is:
    "WHERE IS SHE?"
    The Fed, asking the Joker where Rachel is:
    "Just to button up one point, the location of these two people you've seen fit to commandeer and relocate, for whatever purposes that might have been, their location, is that something you'd feel willing to divulge, or ... ?"

    Brad Pitt in "Se7en":
    "What's in the BOX? What's in the box?"
    The Fed in "Se7en":
    "Now, just a final concern we thought maybe could be brought to the table concerning the, I guess, the contents -- of this box here -- is that a subject that could be touched on at all? I assume not?"

    Ygritte to Jon Snow:
    "You know nothing, Jon Snow."
    The Fed to Jon Snow:
    "I mean it certainly seems as if you might be able to know -- not more necessarily, but certainly that it wouldn't be beyond the realm of possibility entirely for you to obtain maybe -- not more information, even, but -- well, some information, certainly? Never mind, forget I said anything."



    Parent
    OT: I am once again required (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:35:33 PM EST
    to login each time I open TL.

    Parent
    It happens periodically (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by fishcamp on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:37:26 PM EST
    A thief who stole a calendar got twelve months.

    Parent
    Saying nothing (none / 0) (#30)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:47:26 PM EST
    avoiding jinxing

    Parent
    Makes me (none / 0) (#83)
    by BackFromOhio on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 03:47:21 PM EST
    wish that Elliot Spitzer would run again for NY AG.

    Parent
    Domestic Violence: A Double Standard? (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:13:54 PM EST
    Both Rice and Peterson have admitted (none / 0) (#9)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 03:54:05 PM EST
    guilt/responsibility. Solo has not and she has not been found so yet, either. If you remember, there is also a 49er that is accused but still playing until /if found guilty/responsible. I also don't think she has video or still images floating around showing the alleged abuse. Neither does the 49er, afaik.

    Parent
    No Double Standard? (none / 0) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:31:03 PM EST
    Is that your opinion here?

    Do you think that it was OK to put Solo in the game after being charged with DV, and made captain of the team? And if she winds up being found guilty, do you think she should still be allowed to play?

    For Slate's Amanda Hess, the differences between the NFL and the US Soccer Federation make them difficult to compare.

    "Isn't it more likely that the lack of public pressure in Solo's case simply represents the relative lack of attention that women's soccer receives as compared with pro football?"

    And unlike the NFL, she writes, US Soccer is not burdened with "a systematic, decades-long history of ignoring the fact that certain players abuse their partners."



    Parent
    I didn't state an opinion. (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:37:11 PM EST
    If she's guilty, the league should treat her to the same rules they treat others. I don't know what their policy is. I don't think there should be a dbl standard, but again, she has not been found guilty, nor has admitted any wrong doing. The football players that have been suspended have. Do you think pro-players should be  suspended based on allegations regardless of gender?

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 04:50:57 PM EST
    I do not think players should be suspended, or lose their job for breaking the law.

    That is for the criminal justice system to sort out, IMO

    To me it seems that because it is a woman, and there is not a lot of these cases in Women's soccer, and that the sport is below the radar compared to NFL, I think that she is being treated differently than a male football player would had he been arrested for DV.

    Considering what I have read, it seems really odd that they would make her captain with these charges hanging over her head, odd compared to if this happened in NFL.

    IOW, I think that there would be a lot of outrage if a male with a similar history as Solo, were made captain after being arrested for DV.

    Parent

    She hasn't been found guilty of (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:30:12 PM EST
    breaking the law. When found guilty, jail time tends to interfere with playing time. . . . See, Vick, Michael; Dog Killer, Gambling man, Can't Finish A Season Football Player. . .

    If players want to break the law, maybe they should pick careers that tolerate it. Seems they sign contracts that don't tolerate law breaking . . .

    Haven't heard of any other cases of women in soccer being accused of DV. Links?

    And, ONE. MORE. TIME. There is a NFL Player also accused of DV who has not admitted any wrong doing, same as Solo. He will yet again be on the field this Sunday (hasn't missed a game yet). How is she being treated different than he is?

    Seems you are looking to argue. I'm not down for that. You'll have to find someone else to play with.

    Parent

    Black and White Issue For You? (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:16:45 PM EST
    Many are asking why Solo is playing and others have been suspended after being charged. Rice, Peterson and Handy are awaiting trial, and have not been convicted of anything yet. Apparently it is not as black and white as you believe it to be.

    Considering that the suspensions are all about a moral stance, tainted role models, it would seem to be consistent that Solo was benched until her name was cleared. For me it all reeks of hypocrisy, all about money, not morals.

    WaPo:

    While U.S. Soccer doesn't have the same high profile as the NFL, how do the cases differ? Aren't women's soccer players just as much role models as male football players?

    TEMPE, Ariz. -- Arizona Cardinals running back Jonathan Dwyer has been deactivated from all team activities after his arrest Wednesday on charges of aggravated assault.

    And on Sunday, the Carolina Panthers announced just before game time that defensive end Greg Hardy would not be playing against the Detroit Lions.

    In May, authorities say, Hardy choked his then-girlfriend, dragged her by her hair and threatened to kill her. He was sentenced in July to 18 months of probation and a 60-day suspended sentence for the misdemeanors he was charged with.

    Hardy said he is innocent and has appealed a guilty verdict.
    Morality is not an issue with the sponsors or the money people (owners etc). It only becomes an issue of morality (role models) when it looks like they are going to lose money because their product is tainted.  

    preliminary court hearing to address San Francisco 49ers defensive end Ray McDonald's August domestic violence arrest has been cancelled, according to ESPN. McDonald's court hearing had been set for Monday and no new date will be set "unless or until charges are filed," according to the report.

    McDonald was arrested on Aug. 31 on suspicion of felony domestic violence, and the victim, his fiancee, had "visible injuries," according to reports. McDonald has not been charged to this point, nor has he been disciplined by the 49ers or the NFL -- at least publicly. The arrest came prior to the start of the regular season, but McDonald has started all three games for the 49ers thus far.

    Yet:

    Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom, the former San Francisco mayor, on Sunday called for the 49ers to bench defensive lineman Ray McDonald, "pending the outcome of his felony domestic violence investigation by San Jose law enforcement."

    Unlike McDonald Hope Solo was charged with Domestic Violence.

    So hypocrisy as usual.

    Parent

    Her public exposure is a tiny % of an NFL star (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by ruffian on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:24:29 PM EST
    To but it bluntly, there is a lot less money on the line from advertisers. That is what it boiled down to. The NFL is not taking a moral stance, they are protecting their product. There is more than a double standard, I'm sure there is a dozens standard depending on different leagues and financial exposure. It is a business.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 06:28:31 PM EST
    Yet again. Rice and Peterson both admitted to (none / 0) (#42)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 07:27:15 PM EST
    what they were accused of. And there is some pretty damning evidence around, in case you missed it. Hardy was SENTENCED by the court. McDonald seems to be a changing situation with the investigation (hadn't heard court had been cancelled). Solo has been charged but not found guilty.

    I guess you don't see a difference, but I do. Solo may very well have been suspended if she admitted to some degree of what she is charged with/and or there was a video floating the internet of her decking these people. Same with McDonald.

    Now, I'm not saying I agree or disagree with anything, just telling you how I see the difference. Ya know, that lil innocent until proven guilty/or publicly admitting it/having fight club videos floating around thing . . .

    Parent

    Others Benched Claim Innocence (none / 0) (#46)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:35:10 PM EST
    Los Angeles (AFP) - Another NFL team benched a player Wednesday over suspicion of domestic violence, deepening the woes of America's richest and most popular sports league...

    ..The Cardinals wasted no time in benching the player....

    A police statement said Dwyer has admitted some kind of incidents happened, but denied any physical assaults took place...

    Carolina Panthers star defensive end Greg Hardy is appealing a conviction for assaulting a former girlfriend.

    Hardy played the first game of the season for the Panthers after launching an appeal of his conviction. The Vikings had planned to welcome Peterson back to action after he missed one game, which the team lost badly.

    But amid a growing public uproar, both teams negotiated deals with their players to place them on paid leave as their legal cases proceed.

    Seems to me it is all about $$$. Low visibility domestic violence does not appear to matter to anyone, including sponsors, but when the lights are turned on bright, all of a sudden there are cries of "think of the children" and punitive action is taken.

    What bs..

    Parent

    {sigh} (none / 0) (#50)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:52:25 PM EST
    has admitted some kind of incidents happened

    Hardy is appealing a conviction for assaulting a former girlfriend.

    Also, the teams are making these decisions, not the league. The 2 players are getting paid (one after being convicted), kinda like after a cop shoots an unarmed man and gets put on leave pending investigation. Seems to be a standard practice. . . .

    And what is wrong with teams/leagues bowing to public pressure/loss of $$$?  If you don't think they should, do you think the public should just STFU and never boycott/protest (anything)? And the light on DV has been dim for far too long. Iirc, it was still dim when Solo had her 'incident', she'd prob have a bit more of a problem if it happened this past month (hey! NFL players, get an effin' clue!). Remember, Rice's original 'punishment' was only 2 games until the $hit hit the fan. And he clearly violated his contract, it would seem . . . (I hope!)

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#52)
    by squeaky on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 09:16:41 PM EST
    Glad that you see it all in order. Black and White.

    Parent
    lol!~ (none / 0) (#53)
    by nycstray on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 09:25:01 PM EST
    Might have to do with (none / 0) (#87)
    by jbindc on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 07:03:20 AM EST
    How their contracts are set up.

    Sports leagues are known for the inconsistency with which they discipline athletes despite having a long history of being allowed to do so. After the Chicago Black Sox scandal in 1919 (players were bribed to throw the World Series), MLB created the Commissioner role and offered it to Judge Kenesaw Mountain Landis. The judge accepted the position on the condition that he would have unrestricted authority to strike down any action he deemed bad for baseball. Thus, the "best interest" clause was born.

    Of course, "best interest" differs from league to league based on their collective bargaining agreements. In the NBA, players' contracts include a clause about "good moral character." In 2007, the NFL adopted the Personal Conduct Policy, granting the league the power to penalize an athlete even without a conviction. The NHL takes a four-stage approach-under the Behavioral Health Program, a first offence results in counselling, followed by a suspension without pay, then a mandatory six-month suspension, and finally a one-year suspension with the possibility of dismissal.

    US Soccer prefers to stick with tradition: their bylaws state that any member may be fined, suspended, or terminated if "the conduct of the Member is adverse to the best interest of soccer."



    Parent
    Not Really the Point, IMO (none / 0) (#93)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:58:03 AM EST
    It is public opinion, and money, imo.

    And the fact that because man on women domestic violence is a huge problem, woman on man domestic violence does not seem to mean much to the public.

    In a way the double standard is due to sexism. How could a woman hurt a man? Here at TL, outrage at Rice (by most), but when it comes to Solo, crickets. Oh, nycstray thinks it is clear cut, innocent until proven guilty.

    Interesting statistic is that domestic violence regarding children is pretty much equally distributed between fathers and mothers 43% and 40% respectively.

    Size and strength a factor?  I would guess that would have to be the case, but when it comes to adult relationships, why do people stay in them?  

    Parent

    I think there needs to be a lot of work (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:58:48 AM EST
    in the area of educating the public that violence against anyone by anyone is wrong - I think this is why a lot of organizations are moving to the term "intimate partner violence."  Although even that doesn't cover it, really.

    If man v. woman violence lives in the shadows, woman v. man violence lives in a black hole.  Why is that?  It can't be that no one cares - I think it's more likely that no one talks about it, men don't like to talk about it, too many of them have tried and been greeted with skepticism and doubt.  I think I mentioned in a thread recently that my nephew's marriage broke up because his wife was abusive and violent - the whole experience turned his life upside down.  

    If no one's talking about it, it might as well not exist - and I think that's as much the problem as anything.

    I don't think gender barriers will break down unless and until we decide that equality isn't just about how much money one makes.  For example, when's the last time you saw a man telling his I-had-breast-cancer story?  I think I may have seen one PSA in the last couple years that featured a man talking about having breast cancer.  Is it because no one cares about men getting the disease?  Shouldn't there be more education about the reality of male breast cancer?

    In terms of Hope Solo, I haven't really been following it, but I'll say this: if the legal system is involved, that needs to reach some kind of conclusion.  Solo's employer needs to decide whether it can or should continue to employ her, regardless of whether she is or isn't found guilty of the charges, in accordance with any contract she has.  And regardless of what the whole story is, could it hurt to require her to get some counseling, education, anger management-type skills?  


    Parent

    Solo's Contract (none / 0) (#112)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:28:14 AM EST
    Solo's employer needs to decide whether it can or should continue to employ her, regardless of whether she is or isn't found guilty of the charges, in accordance with any contract she has.

    From what has happened in NFL, and I am not very deep into it as I do not watch football, it appears that contracts and policy are not the driving force behind benching and sponsors dropping players. It is public pressure fueled by media...  a scandal sells soap.

    I think I read the the Women's soccer Org decision to pull players is based only on what is good for Women's Soccer.

    Parent

    Oh, no question public pressure (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:49:48 AM EST
    is a huge factor, but there's a morass of league policies, collectively-bargained policies, team policies and decisions, and so on.

    For example, the Ravens made a decision to cut Rice, terminate his contract, even though they didn't have to - but they were getting killed in the media and didn't see any way out of that without cutting ties with Rice.

    It would be nice to think that the concept of what is "good for" the sport is just about the game itself, but I suspect that what is good and what isn't is often driven by the dollars.  

    With football, for example, is having games on Sunday, Monday, and Thursday "good for" the sport?  It used to be that Thursday games weren't played until late in the season, but now they start Week 1.  Would playing more regular season games be "good" for it?  They've been talking about that for a couple years now.  How about regular games in Europe - or expanding to Europe?  There's been one game each season played in London - not against a British team, mind you, just making two teams travel to London to play there.  Are these things good for the sport, or is it that all that TV revenue is good for the owners' bottom lines?

    Look how long the league denied the effects of hits to the head, how often players with concussions were just sent back in to play.  Was that good for the sport?  I don't think so.  

    I'm all for making it about the sport, but I don't think those making the decisions are able to separate the sport from the oceans of cash it's making for them.  And as long as the Commissioner of the NFL is judge, jury and executioner, bad decisions will continue to be made.

    Parent

    Funny (none / 0) (#165)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 03:29:10 PM EST
    I guess I am a cynic, I understood the Women's Soccer Org statement to mean, what is good for the bottom line... IOW $$$$

    But now that you mention it, I guess they could be sincerely thinking about the sport.

    Parent

    Agnes Martin (none / 0) (#119)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:59:07 AM EST
    I find it really interesting that Agnes Martin saw a change in men once she turned 65..  or sometime thereabouts.

    She goes on about how men used to have to be heroes all the time, fighting, possessing everything, everyone wive, kids etc.

    But now the men, as they were, are all gone.

    Of course that is not a view held by many. It is a really curious statement. I wonder if it had to do with her isolation, or that she became powerful as an artist and men around her changed...

    or that she changed her way of looking at the world, and the world responded differently to her.

    She starts talking about men and women at 11:24

    Parent

    I Agree 100% except... (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:51:07 AM EST
    ...if there was a video of Solo knocking someone out, it might even get more airplay.  I doubt the reaction would be the same, but the media would never let that go quietly.

    I think the crickets are more due to the fact that is happened long ago and was already reported.  There aren't going back in the NFL for every DV and there have been a lot.

    There is also crickets about the Dallas Cowboy, Josh Brent, who killed his friend and teammate, Jerry Brown, while driving drunk.  He got 180 days in jail, who is legible to play football even though he is not, during his appeal.  Which to me is worse.

    Had neither video surfaced with Rice, it would be crickets as well, IMO.  I doubt we would know about it as the league didn't have to report why a suspension occurred if wasn't performance enhancing related.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#131)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:29:47 PM EST
    I think the crickets are more due to the fact that is happened long ago and was already reported.  There aren't going back in the NFL for every DV and there have been a lot.

    Yes, I have read that her incident was in April or May, before the NFL rash of incidents that got a lot of attention. Some have said that now, all sports will be under a microscope regarding DV. We'll see.

    Had neither video surfaced with Rice, it would be crickets as well, IMO.

    well it wasn't crickets here at TL, before the video surfaced.

    Parent

    The Solo Incident... (none / 0) (#148)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:55:23 PM EST
    Don't get me wrong, she is accused of assault, which is bad, I just don't think most people consider relatives that you don't live with as under the DV umbrella.  Maybe by definition, but it is a stretch.

    They start going after every public figure who assaults someone and we are going to need more news stations. Let's stick with people being assaulted by someone they live with.

    Parent

    DV (none / 0) (#155)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:13:23 PM EST
    I believe she was charged with Domestic Violence. I do understand that there are differences between live in partners, children and other relatives. But this alleged attack, is apparently not a one off between her and her half sister.

    And Domestic Violence charges are not limited to live in relatives.

    Solo, dressed in a white shirt and black pants, said little, telling the judge "I do" when asked if she understood the domestic violence assault charges filed against her. She faces two counts of fourth-degree domestic violence assault.

    CNN

    Washington Domestic Violence Law

    Parent

    Right... (none / 0) (#175)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:49:02 PM EST
    ...but my comment is to why people aren't jumping on board, as mentioned it might be technically DV, it's on the fringe.  Whereas the Rice video is not, that is what people are trying to shine light on, not drunken relatives brawling, again.


    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#180)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 05:11:27 PM EST
    Sounds like you are minimizing the incident, which appears to be normal (the norm).

    Apart from the incident not involving her spouse, do you think that the lack of interest has anything to do with the fact that she is a white woman? If she slugged her husband the same way she allegedly did her sister in law would anyone care? I doubt it.

    Also I am pretty sure that the questions being asked would never had not this been true:

    While the incident is three months old, it has gained currency because of domestic abuse cases involving other professional athletes, such as football players Ray Rice, the former Baltimore Ravens running back shown in an elevator hitting his future wife; Arizona Cardinals linebacker Daryl Washington, accused of attacking his daughter's mother; and San Francisco 49ers defensive end Ray McDonald, accused of assaulting his pregnant fiance at a party.



    Parent
    Time to quit bashing the Big Ten (none / 0) (#23)
    by ragebot on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 05:10:51 PM EST
    and direct my ire at the Big 12.  I am really not a KSU fanboy but do like Coach Snyder a lot and give my bozo of the week award to the Big 12.

    Big 12 Bozo Award

    Bounty construction (none / 0) (#48)
    by Lfrieling on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 08:43:04 PM EST
    The Bounty was in service under other names before being retro-fitted for the breadfruit mission.  It was not built specifically for the the breadfruit purpose.

    Ferguson Fun (none / 0) (#57)
    by ragebot on Sat Sep 27, 2014 at 10:54:32 PM EST
    More good news from the Midwest.

    link

    Don't be an a$$ (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by MO Blue on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 01:47:00 AM EST
    Eric Holder is on his way (1.00 / 4) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 08:21:46 AM EST
    and all will be well.

    Parent
    ragebot (none / 0) (#60)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 08:07:39 AM EST
    This comment at the bottom of the article applies to last night's incident as well as Brown's shooting:

    "As a retired cop, one who has been there done that, and not like most on this board who post just from sheer emotion and ignorance, these cops have horrible tactics, training, and officer safety!

    "Who chases two suspects by themselves with no backup???? He would have gotten written up for that at the very least on our Dept. Which happens to be the largest in the world!

    "These small town law enforcement agencies are a joke. When they come to a large Metro agency for training it is very scary when you see them in action.

    "Most of these shootings could be avoided with better training! This one sure could have.

    "Let the guy run! We've got all day! Call backup, set up a containment, call an Air Ship, and Canine! Use your resources!

    "It worked for me for 25 years without getting shot, thank the Lord!

    "Quit trying to play hero!"

    Parent

    Your supposed retired cop's comment (2.00 / 1) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 08:27:00 AM EST
    doesn't make sense. From the actual article.

    Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Saturday night that the officer was on routine patrol and spotted two suspects trying to break into a business. He said the business was in Ferguson.

    When the officer confronted the suspects, Jackson said, one of them pulled a gun and fired at the officer. The officer was struck once in the arm, and was expected to be okay.

    I think it is reasonable and expected that the cop would do exactly what he did. Otherwise we might as well have them stay in the office and wait for calls to go write reports.

    Parent

    doesn't make sense???? (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 08:56:49 AM EST
    Does the comment make sense regarding the shooting of Brown??? Was there any reason for Wilson to have gotten out of his cruiser at all until backup arrived???

    BTW other articles on this "shooting" last night say that he was shot giving chase -- so which was it???

    He is also reported to have shot at the suspect or is it suspects.  Wow -- firing with a wounded wing -- give him another commendation.

    Then it was reported that he or they were confronted at the community center which was closed at the time. Then that was changed to confronting them breaking into a business -- so which was it???

    These Ferguson cops are incapable of giving an honest report. Make sure to send him to the same doctor Wilson was sent to.

    Parent

    You seem to have a deep seated (1.00 / 2) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 11:58:09 AM EST
    hatred of police. I advise you seek professional help.

    In the meantime, quit claiming and start providing links if you want to be taken seriously.

    Parent

    You're the one who claims to (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 12:42:08 PM EST
    Be able to tell who is a phony from just reading their post,  so perhaps you need some psych counseling about your grandosity and your anger management issues as well.

    Parent
    People around here (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:15:20 AM EST
    Making internet psych diagnosis and writing scripts for "getting help" when others don't agree with them is really ridiculous.

    Parent
    Didn't know you were Uncle (none / 0) (#102)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:52:03 AM EST
    I mean you are just so eager to attack me that you join in discussion between me and someone else.

    You are stalking me.

    Parent

    Stalking? (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:11:56 AM EST
    Feeling weakened ppj?  Do not like being responded to by one of the few here who are not totally bored with your schtick?

    Well as the saying goes if the kitchen it too hot... the fact you feel the need to accuse commenters of stalking you on an open blog means that perhaps this is not a place for you.

    Parent

    squeaky, since you (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:18:30 AM EST
    have told us that you don't watch TV I gotta say that your comments that have any relation to what is happening in our society have become marginalized.

    Perhaps when you have rejoined the world and faced realty your thoughts will have some value.

    Until then not so much.

    Parent

    Hilarious (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:44:59 AM EST
    Because you watch teevee you are mainstream?

    hahahahahahhaha

    Wingnuttia delivers another brainwashed victim of teevee truth.

    Fox is your friend.

    hahahaha

    Parent

    People who believe in things like (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:06:42 PM EST
    the climate science conspiracy and the black radical government takeover like being talked at so that they can confirm what they and their friends already know.

    Parent
    jondee, you are making things up (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:08:26 PM EST
    again.... Some call that lying.

    Parent
    Try this (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:10:39 PM EST
    Anyone who ignores an important part of the world they live in are denying realty.

    Whether you, or I for that matter, like or approve of what's being shown it is helping establish social norms.

    Parent

    Reality (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:16:58 PM EST
    the world they live in

    You got that part right, but where you get confused is the part where the world you live in is not the same world everyone else lives in.

    And that is a really, really, good thing.

    Parent

    squeaky, we all live in the same world (1.00 / 2) (#168)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 03:58:40 PM EST
    TV is part of that world just as the NFL is and all the religions and all the crime and all and all...

    You say you don't what TV. Heck, you don't even know who Bill Maher is...

    And we are supposed to think you are informed enough about what's happening in the world to be taken seriously?? Really????

    ;-)

    Parent

    World Of NFL (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:03:03 PM EST
    Sounds about right for you, that and Faux News and you know all there is to know.

    Sincerely, I do feel sorry for you for thinking that you know the world.

    Parent

    You can run and try and hide (1.00 / 2) (#183)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 07:40:30 PM EST
    which suits me fine. But your credibility as a commentator on current topics is forever gone.

    Parent
    Oh, brother...considering how much (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:20:59 PM EST
    dreck, how much misinformation, misdirection, bias, agenda comes at us via the television, it is hilarious for anyone to think that partaking of what TV has to offer gives us an objective, truthful understanding of the world.

    And if you're a regular or semi-regular Fox News viewer, the chances that you know what's going on are orders of magnitude less than those watching other networks and outlets.

    On balance, I don't think not being a sports fan disqualifies anyone from knowing what's going on.

    Besides, it's not like you were ever going to accord squeaky any credibility, even if he admitted to watching TV 24/7.

    Maybe one of these days, some semblance of honesty will inform your comments here, but today isn't that day.

    Parent

    Look, if you want to argue that one should not (1.00 / 2) (#190)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:43:31 PM EST
    watch TV because it has junk, fine.

    And squeaky said that h/she didn't watch TV. That's ALL TV, not just sports.

    But, it is that "junk" that weaves its way into our society and culture. And if you aren't aware of it then there is no way you can make informed comments.

    But you would disagree with me if I said I wanted to give you a million dollars.

    lol

    Parent

    Hilarious (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:35:17 PM EST
    And extra funny that you believe that to know the world you must watch teevee...

    Love it..  

    And really hard to believe that you are serious, but then again it
    explains a lot about you.

    Parent

    Hmmmmm (5.00 / 2) (#184)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:07:03 PM EST
    Anyone who ignores an important part of the world they live in are denying realty.

    Like the MMGW deniers ...

    Parent

    Don't look now, Yman (1.00 / 2) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:44:59 PM EST
    but that debate is over and you lost.

    lol

    Parent

    Really, Jim? (5.00 / 2) (#193)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:01:05 PM EST
    That's the best you can do?

    Heh - no wonder you deniers can't ever win a debate.

    Parent

    He doesn't need much (none / 0) (#199)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Sep 30, 2014 at 06:26:15 AM EST
    of an excuse to start stalking squeaky.

    Parent
    If you don't like being the target (none / 0) (#198)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:05:34 PM EST
    of a psychiatric diagnosis, perhaps you shouldn't be so keen to hand them out to others.

    I did get a laugh out of your  "American liberals" working in Whitehall, that's a real thigh-slapper right there.😀

    Parent

    WTF Link -- (none / 0) (#77)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 01:42:55 PM EST
    So it's a link you want -- here:

    Brown/Wilson Timeline Events of the day

    Even the writer of this blog, who is more than sympathetic to the Ferguson Police Department and trying to prove that Brown was a thug deserving death, after trying to make sense of the Ferguson PD Event Report for that day, had to conclude with a great big "WTF".

    The FPD lied bigtime and they still are lying bigtime and even their defenders are having their faces wiped in it.

    Parent

    Your comments make no sense (1.00 / 1) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:50:51 AM EST
    And I give you a "So what?" Nothing you provide proves anything.

    The issue remains this. Was Wilson justified in shooting Brown.

    We know that Brown had just robbed a minimart and physically intimidated a clerk/owner.

    We know that Brown turned and went back towards Wilson.

    That says it all.

    Parent

    That says it all. (none / 0) (#113)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:40:08 AM EST
    If that says it all then why has the Ferguson Chief lied repeatedly throughout since then.

    What's he hiding??? Aren't we supposed to be able to trust government officials and government documents???

    Why did he lie about the time when those other officers got there??? He said the second arrived at 12:04 and yet his Event Report says 12:02:22 -- right at the time of the shooting.

    And then of course by 12:04 there were 4 police SUVs there as all those videos indicate -- not just 2 as he says.

    He should hire people with cellphones to keep track of his police units -- they do a better job than he does.

    Why is he afraid to identify Wilson as 6'6" and bigger than Brown??? Is that because at his size he wasn't afraid of Brown at all, especially with those other officers arriving on the scene.

    Why does his convenience store incident report list a box of cigars valued at $48.99 as having been stolen when the security tape shows him leaving the store with only a handful of packages of cigarillos valued about $10???

    And now we move along to the changing facts of the alleged shooting of and by a Ferguson officer the other night -- whose body camera it now turns out was suspiciously turned off at the time of the shooting.

    Uhhh Huuhh

    Even conservative media are beginning to whisper the word "self-afflicted".

    Parent

    So you hate the police chief?? Okay (1.00 / 1) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:13:10 PM EST
    I got that.

    Now, we have a grand jury going on.

    What's your point of turning a shooting of a police officer by a thug into an attack on police???? Trying to change the subject??

    Parent

    I got that. (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 03:24:30 PM EST
    I got that.

    Good --

    Then you got that the Ferguson Chief and his officers have problems with the truth .... and with those body cameras that they can't seem to keep on to verify their claims of what happened in incidents like this.

    Parent

    It isn't my job or your job to worry (1.00 / 1) (#170)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:03:13 PM EST
    about the Police Chief in Ferguson, MO, a small suburb of St Louis.

    What you are trying to do is transfer the actions of the Police Chief, and others, that you deem to be evil over to Officer Wilson, who you appear to hate.

    Transference

    the action of transferring something or the process of being transferred.
    "education involves the transference of knowledge"
    PSYCHOANALYSIS
    the redirection to a substitute, usually a therapist, of emotions that were originally felt in childhood (in a phase of analysis called transference neurosis ).


    Parent
    Transference??? (none / 0) (#173)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:39:20 PM EST
    Are you a mind reader?? Do you use a crystal ball or jumbled bones???

    Well they ain't workin' fer ya --

    And it ain't Darren Wilson who has lied.

    It's his Chief who has lied.

    And so it's you and no one else who is now trying to transfer the Chief's lies to Darren Wilson.

    Give it up, PPJ --

    Parent

    Look, you are the one whose actions (1.00 / 1) (#176)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:50:01 PM EST
    define them. I mean, why keep harping about Ferguson??

    With an 80% black population they have more than enough to elect a city government that will replace the chief with someone more to there liking... if they truly want him out....

    And there is a grand jury impaneled and we both now that Holder has decided to indict Wilson if the locals don't.

    Parent

    Please try for some semblance of accuracy (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by MO Blue on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:53:02 PM EST
    Ferguson does not have an 80% black population.

    If this is an example of the accuracy you get from watching TV, you need to turn it off and try reading for a change.

    Parent

    Such a ridiclous, SPECIOUS, ... (none / 0) (#185)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:09:50 PM EST
    And there is a grand jury impaneled and we both now that Holder has decided to indict Wilson if the locals don't.

    ... baseless, evidence-free claim.  Whenever someone starts a claim with "Everyone knows", "We both know", etc., you know they have absolutely nothing to back up the silly fairy tale that's about to follow.

    Parent

    Except, of course, (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by Palli on Tue Sep 30, 2014 at 11:15:23 AM EST
    Ferguson PD is not big on Incident reports.

    There is none for this recent "shooting" behind the Community Center'
    There is not one for the 2113 Daren Wilson arrest of Brooks. (The court hearing  that Wilson did not show up for yesterday, Sept. 29.)
    Since there is now a hold on all of Wilson's pending cases- wonder about those officer reports? Missing too?

    Parent

    Your supposed social liberal credentials (none / 0) (#63)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 08:51:21 AM EST
    Include bad-mouthing retired cops now?

    But, retired cop or not, it is true that cops usually ask for backup when confronted by two or more perps.  That's just common sense, whether you agree with the retired cop or not.

    Parent

    As a social liberal I am often (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 11:55:20 AM EST
    asked to bad mouth actual cops. And I do if they deserve it.

    However, in this case we have:

    1. No evidence that the person is a retired cop.

    2. There is no evidence that the policeman didn't call for backup and then proceeded to confront the thugs.

    3. His advice runs contradictory to what cops are supposed to do when the encounter a crime in progress.

    4. Plus, his advice, if followed, would negate the reason we have police.

    So, if he is what he claims he deserves what I wrote. And if he is fake, he doubly deserves it.

     

    Parent

    Your objections aren't very logical (none / 0) (#70)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 12:02:57 PM EST
    1. You can't prove he's not a retired cop.

    2.There is no evidence that the policeman didn't call for backup and then proceeded to confront the thugs.

    There's no evidence that he did so.

    3 His advice runs contradictory to what cops are supposed to do when the encounter a crime in progress.

    Didn't know you were such an expert on cop tactics.  Have any links to back up your contention? B

    Because, like the rest of your list, that's all it is.

    4.Plus, his advice, if followed, would negate the reason we have police.

    Non-sequitur.

    5.So, if he is what he claims he deserves what I wrote. And if he is fake, he doubly deserves it.

    Any excuse to be nasty, eh, James?

    Parent

    They are very logical (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 12:19:28 PM EST
    Logic points out that no proof is offered.

    Logic says that cops are supposed to try and stop crimes they encounter.

    Also history.

    Do you remember the Columbine school killings??? The first deputy wanted to go in and engage. He was told to wait for back up. People died because of that.

    Any excuse?? Well, you are the one who must always have the last word.


    Parent

    That was after the guard tried to engage (none / 0) (#73)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 12:38:52 PM EST
    them.

    Jefferson County Sheriff's Deputy Neil Gardner soon would complete his second year as the uniformed community resource officer assigned to Columbine High School.  Gardner, a 15-year veteran of the Sheriff's Office, normally ate his lunch with the students in the cafeteria during first lunch period.  His car would have been parked in his "normal spot" in front of the cafeteria doors - between the junior and senior parking lots.
        On April 20, however, Deputy Gardner and campus supervisor Andy Marton, an unarmed school security officer employed by the school district, were eating lunch in Gardner's  patrol car.  They were monitoring students in the "Smokers' Pit," a spot just to the northwest of campus in Clement Park where the students congregated to smoke cigarettes.

    ... SNIP ...

    As Gardner stepped out of his patrol car, Eric Harris turned his attention from shooting into the west doors of the high school to the student parking lot and to the deputy.  Gardner, particularly visible in the bright yellow shirt of the community resource officer uniform, was the target of Harris' bullets. Harris fired about 10 shots from his rifle at Gardner before his gun jammed. Although Gardner's patrol car was not hit by bullets, two vehicles that he was parked behind were hit by Harris' gunfire.  Investigators later found two bullet holes in each of the cars.  

    ... SNIP ...

    Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots.  He was 60 yards from the gunman.  Harris spun hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.

        After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other Sheriff's units. "Shots in the building.  I need someone in the south lot with me."

        It was 11:26 a.m.  Only five minutes had passed since Jefferson County Sheriff's dispatch center had announced a bomb explosion and subsequent fire on South Wadsworth Boulevard.

    And, of course, he should've been told to reload and go in after them, correct?

    Parent

    Your link proves (none / 0) (#106)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:12:52 AM EST
    what I wrote.

    Gardner didn't go in.

    People died because of that.

    Your link goes to KOS which uses a CNN article. Here's a link and some quotes from the complete article.

    Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the car and fired four shots.  He was 60 yards from the gunman.  Harris spun hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.

        After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other Sheriff's units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot with me."  
    It was 11:26 a.m.  Only five minutes had passed...

    CNN

    By 11:30 there were six deputies on the scene when the first of the reporters began to show up at the school. ... About that time the shooters had made it to the library and, killing Kyle Velasquez on their way to the west windows, they began shooting out at the deputies from there.

    link

    Four minutes is an eternity.... Ask Kyle Veasquez because he knows... and so do the others.

    The duty of a police officer as well as a military man is protect.

    The Ferguson officer was trying to do that. An arm chair retiree, if he actually is, decided to criticize him based on incomplete knowledge but a robust ego on what he would have done.

    You seem to be interested in what?? Disagreeing with my criticism of the unfairness of that??

    Why??

    Parent

    PPJ (none / 0) (#76)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 01:22:05 PM EST
    There is no evidence that the policeman didn't call for backup ...

    Well we will just have to wait ... and wait ... and wait .... and wait for the Incident Report, and the Event Report, and the Officer's Report, and the Weapon Discharge Report, and all those other reports on this incident to come out.

    Won't we???

    Parent

    What we can do is not criticize an (1.00 / 1) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:35:04 AM EST
    officer for doing his job.

    Unless, of course, you hate the police.

    Parent

    That has to get the BS comment of (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:09:40 AM EST
    the day award...although if you continue to comment on this subject, you may rack up more than one of them today.

    Here is an article about cops "doing their jobs," jim - read it and learn something.

    Cops are not gods, jim.  They aren't all bad, but they're not all good.  Good people go into law enforcement, but so do people with anger problems, who like to bully, who abuse the power of their position at the expense of the citizens they're supposed to be serving.  When we let them "do their jobs," innocent people get hurt, some of them even die.  How is that ever okay, jim?  And why would we want to send the message that it is?

    Jesus.

    Parent

    Jesus?? (1.67 / 3) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:15:50 AM EST
    Can't write without profane comments, eh??

    I posted a link showing my disapproval of "bad" cops.

    Uncle hasn't. In fact, all he does is attack.

    My conclusion, based on what I have seen, is that he has an unreasonable hatred of police.

    But thanks for the personal attack. It is what you do best.

    Parent

    Personal Attack??? (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:46:55 AM EST
    But thanks for the personal attack.

    What are you talking about?

    You are the King of Personal Attacks.

    When you can't handle the facts presented you then attack the presenter.

    You can't deal with the message -- so you attack the messenger.

    You really do need some help --

    Parent

    Maybe I was praying, jim... (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:01:50 PM EST
    praying for Jesus to open your eyes and help you see the problems with your logic.  We've all tried, so I figured maybe it was time for divine intervention.  Not hopeful, but hey - who knows!

    There is no one here who has an unreasonable hatred of the police; each and every comment about the abuse of police power has been specific as to the actions of the cops involved and the police departments that govern their behavior.

    Has anyone said they hate Darren Wilson, or has the criticism been about hating the way he chose to do his job?

    Transparency, accountability, consequences: that's what most people here want from the police - and there's no reason we shouldn't be getting it, or demanding it.  

    Parent

    The subject was Uncle (1.00 / 1) (#156)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:15:21 PM EST
    not everyone here.

    And Uncle's comments speak for themselves.

    You just wanted to pile on.

    ;-)

    Parent

    No, the subject of your comment was (none / 0) (#160)
    by Anne on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:45:37 PM EST
    the fractured logic of false equivalence you threw out there that not refraining from criticism of the police for "doing their jobs" equaled hatred for them.

    Maybe that works for you, or those in your social milieu, but many of us just aren't inclined to let that kind of nonsense stand as if it was a pearl of wisdom, when we all know - could tell with our eyes closed - that it's just one more smelly bead for the fecal necklace you slip on when you come to visit.

    Hope that didn't offend your delicate sensibilities.

    Parent

    Quit making things up (none / 0) (#166)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 03:54:42 PM EST
    the start of this thread was Uncle's sarcasm re bad police.

    Parent
    hate the police (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:29:53 PM EST
    let us know when someone here posts a picture of a cop with a bone in his nose.

    Parent
    As soon as you post one of Bush as a (1.00 / 1) (#157)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    monkey.

    ;-)

    Parent

    I think our monkey friends (none / 0) (#200)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 30, 2014 at 11:02:42 AM EST
    might be insulted if I did that.

    Parent
    Chimps aren't apes (none / 0) (#201)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Sep 30, 2014 at 11:09:01 AM EST
    although bonobos might object to being compared with a syntax-impared warmongering conservative as well.

    Parent
    Here's a stunner -- (none / 0) (#65)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 10:10:55 AM EST
    New Mexico Sheriff found guilty of civil rights violation

     The Albuquerque Journal said that as a state police officer in the 1980s he was disciplined for marijuana use, physical abuse and improper use of a weapon. And in 1993 he allegedly fired a gun at a deer decoy set up by state game wardens to catch poachers.

    And yet this criminal with a badge kept his badge and rose to prominence within the department.

    This shows the power of the police union and why there is a disconnect between the police and the people and will continue that way until the police start policing their own first and foremost.

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (none / 0) (#80)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 02:37:13 PM EST
    Oh my (none / 0) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Sep 28, 2014 at 02:29:30 PM EST
    Each side is chosing to view this (none / 0) (#94)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:00:00 AM EST
    incident through their own political prism.

    Not enough is known at this time but if he converted to Islam his Jesus Christ tattoo is a meaningless factoid.

    Are you insinuating that Islam had nothing to do with it?  Or would you rather use this as an opportunity to take a shot at Right Wingers for their reaction?

    One other reality is that because a person in that office was armed with a firearm a women's life was saved.  Thank goodness he was allowed to carry it.

    Parent

    "B" (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:09:29 AM EST
    Or would you rather use this as an opportunity to take a shot at Right Wingers for their reaction?


    Parent
    Fair enough (none / 0) (#118)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:52:43 AM EST
    but I'd claim that since this looks like an Islamic influenced murder the left would rather look the other way.

    Parent
    Islamic influenced (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:25:27 PM EST
    the way the pedophile priests, the Branch Davidians, and Jonestown were Christianity influenced?

    I guess we have to say in both cases WHICH Christianity and WHICH Islam. Right?

    I mean, the Right likes for propaganda purposes to view the world as a handful of monolithic groups, but lets try to be a little more precise in our language usage.

    Parent

    Yes and yes, jondee (1.00 / 1) (#171)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:10:18 PM EST
    The difference is that if you take 1.5 billion as the number of muslims and 5% as the radical number then you have 75 million radicals.

    Plus, there are no state sponsored Christian groups and the people you refer to were soundly and continually denounced and the actions you refer to are not considered part of Christianity which teaches love not jihad.

    That's not true of the radical muslims.

    Parent

    Hahahahah (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:28:44 PM EST
    Did you get the 5% figure from your teevee? Faux News perhaps?

    no wonder you have to check under your bed every 20 minutes.

    Scary....

    And why go with conservative estimates when you can go with American radical estimates, namely Daniel Pipes? He puts the number at 15.5%.

    That is 232,500,000 radical muslims who want to kill you, no?

    NO. Even if the radical Daniel Pipes is correct with his math, the so called radicals, are actually ultra conservatives (we have them here too) and they are interested in practicing an orthodox version of their religion.

    Out of that group of 232 and a half million how many want to kill you?  Hard to tell, but I would keep checking under your bed and sending money to Pipes, if I were you.

    Mexico is just a red herring, they are actually all coming from Canada.

    Parent

    Hey, prove me wrong (2.00 / 1) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:53:47 PM EST
    And since you don't watch TV how can you know anything about anything on it??

    Tell you what... let's day 1%. That would be 1,500,000...

    Parent

    They are Coming For YOU! (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 05:13:31 PM EST
    Wow! An 80% reduction ... (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:13:00 PM EST
    ... in an imaginary number in just two posts!  

    Quick, Jim!  Post it a few more times and we'll be under 100K!

    Parent

    In the meantime ISIS has (1.00 / 1) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:57:32 PM EST
    around 30,000 and is on the outskirts of Baghdad.

    You must be soooooo proud of The Won.

    Parent

    In the meantime ... (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:48:19 PM EST
    ... we've just established what BS your imaginary percentages are ...

    Parent
    From the Audacity of Government Grafters File (none / 0) (#90)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:31:44 AM EST
    A hearing on whether former Dixon comptroller Rita Crundwell's pension should be part of her restitution for swindling the northern Illinois city of $54-million is set in Chicago Monday.

    Crundwell was convicted of stealing the money from the city over 22 years, and was sentenced to nearly 20 years in federal prison.

    Crundwell argued in an Aug. 30 letter that her pension should be exempt from money she must pay toward restitution.

    Court documents show motions are set in Chicago federal court Monday about Crundwell's Illinois Municipal Retirement Fund and a Nationwide Retirement Solutions fund.

    Crundwell owes $44.4 million in restitution.

    The city received $9 million from the sale of Crundwell's assets and $30 million in a settlement with its former bank and auditors.

    Police story changes -- (none / 0) (#91)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:06:37 AM EST
    Ferguson Police Change their Story -- AGAIN

    Only one suspect now -- not two and ....

    Police also confirmed today that the wounded officer had a body camera, but that it was turned off during the incident.

    St. Louis County Police Sgt. Brian Schellman, a police spokesman, said he did not know why the camera was off.

    Now about the officer's bullet wound....

    Was the bullet fired from close range -- like maybe a foot or so???

    Kim Jong Un in Bad Health (none / 0) (#92)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:32:21 AM EST
    (Reuters) - Young North Korean leader Kim Jong Un is suffering from "discomfort", state media has said in the first official acknowledgement of ill health after a prolonged period out of the public eye.
    ...
    "Based on his gait, it appears he has gout - something (due to) diet and genetic predisposition that has affected other members of the Kim family," said Michael Madden, an expert on the North Korean leadership and contributor to the 38 North website.

    LINK


    Maybe there is a god (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 09:08:06 PM EST
    Bill Maher nails it (none / 0) (#95)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:00:45 AM EST
    Once again he points out the obvious.

    I'm going to assume I know what this is without (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 10:12:10 AM EST
    even clicking.   Sat night?  Islam?  I almost posted it myself but I'm trying to edit myself.   It is very much on target.

    Now I will click and grovel if wrong.

    Parent

    the link is just him (none / 0) (#120)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 11:59:30 AM EST
    again stating that we as a culture have trouble pointing out the issues in the Islamic world.

    We are too afraid to go too far and we censor ourselves when we would never sensor ourselves when it comes to all other forms of religion.

    See me being called a bigot by squeaky the other day for simply pointing out the obvious.

    It's not just liberals either.  

    I'd argue the entire West is struggling with how to criticize the Islamic world when it comes to how they treat women and minorities.   Let alone other basic human rights.

    Parent

    Classic (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:04:18 PM EST
    We are too afraid to go too far and we censor ourselves when we would never sensor ourselves when it comes to all other forms of religion.

    that is hilarious, particularly when you read or hear the screeds particularly by right wingers against Muslims.  Hate to see what the uncensored version is.

    Parent

    He's talking about liberals (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:35:43 PM EST
    not right wingers.

    Parent
    Liberals (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:39:47 PM EST
    Maher Tears into PC Liberals: Where's Your Outrage on Violent, Oppressive Islam?


    Parent
    Yes, I agree (none / 0) (#141)
    by squeaky on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:06:24 PM EST
    The liberals who are bigoted, sexist and racist but afraid to say anything because of PC are the worst, imo.

    Parent
    Maher has his own reality filter (none / 0) (#126)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:13:13 PM EST
    he's gone on and on about excesses and absurdities of religion for years but for some reason he's never heard of the settlers or the obsession with the Biblical "Greater Israel" or any fanaticism or wrongdoing in the (alleged) Holy Land.

     

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    I don't even know what this means (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:42:43 PM EST
    have seen Religilous?  It's pretty equal opportunity.

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    What it means is (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by jondee on Tue Sep 30, 2014 at 11:20:18 AM EST
    I saw it twice and he never even mentioned the settlers in passing. And the only mention of the Temple Mount issue was when he let an Israeli rattle on and on about the Muslim's crazy mythology connected to it without also noting that the Greater Israel crowd thinks they have to take full possession of it and sacrifice a red heifer there in order to appease the Messiah.

    Yes, I get it that the radical Muslims make the average hard core Zionist look like a veritable font of rationality and sanity, but lets try to  be fair-minded and provide a more inclusive Big Picture of the situation there.

    Maher also seems to have never heard about the fairly recent slaughter of Muslims by Hindus in India or about events like untouchable children  having acid thrown in their faces for drawing water from upper caste Hindus ponds and untouchable women being gang raped as practically a time-honored folk tradition in India.

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    Yes (none / 0) (#128)
    by jondee on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 12:16:19 PM EST
    really.

    We censor ourselves? Compared to who or what society?

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    Maybe censor is the wrong word (none / 0) (#146)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:46:04 PM EST
    To Maher's point we tend to jump all over comments regarding women and minorities in this country (see twitter controversies by starts and politicians) while ignoring the reality that in most of the Middle East they are 100 years behind out cultural standards.

    For me in my observation of the Middle East for whatever reason they've been taking steps backwards when it comes to rights for women, homosexuals and religious minorities.

    Most of it has to do with the governments using Islam as the basis for their laws and societal structure.

    Why is this?   It is not per say because of Islam itself but the governments or rulers in much of the Middle East using a conservative form of Islam to control society and remain in power.


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    These are the things I find troubling (none / 0) (#147)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:52:41 PM EST
    about the Islamic World, specifially the Middle East...

    Poll of Middle Eastern Muslims, Dec 2010

        86 percent of Jordanians support death for anyone who leaves Islam.

        84 percent of Egyptians support death for anyone who leaves Islam.

        76 percent of Pakistanis support death for anyone who leaves Islam.

        82 percent of Egyptians support stoning for adultery.

        82 percent of Pakistanis support stoning for adultery.

        70 percent of Jordanians support stoning for adultery.

        49 percent of Nigerian Muslims approve of Al Qaeda.

        34 percent of Jordanians approve of Al Qaeda.

    POLL

    How many of these people would we call "moderate"?  

    We in the west need to start dealing with the reality that much of the Islamic World has a far different, less liberal or democratic view of the world and continuing to pretend otherwise will not solve the problem.  

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    Question - Is this the same Maher ... (none / 0) (#187)
    by Yman on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 08:16:14 PM EST
    ... who regularly mocks Christians (particularly Catholics), calls God a psychotic mass murderer and mocks the hypocrisy of conservative Christians who want to cut social spending?

    Heh.

    Funny how you guys all you guys started liking him at the same time ...

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    The Strain (none / 0) (#145)
    by Slado on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 01:41:53 PM EST
    Capt?

    How did you like last night's episode?

    I was starting to get a little bored as they tend to drag lately but last nights episode picked it up and I'm anxious for the finale.

    More of the good vampire hunters please.   I expect and hope for a big reveal regarding them and how they figure in.  You're going to love it.

    Thought the master looked a little better.

    I love the interplay between the old man and the Nazi.

    B+ for me last night and if they have a good finale it will make up for a bit of dragging during the middle of the season.

    For me having read the books I can fill in holes in the plot and have lots of back stroy when they barely touch on key characters (dead wife with leg braces).    

    Interested in your take.

    It was very good (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 02:07:36 PM EST
    loved the heart story.  Back and continuing.  I guess I'm getting used to the master makeup.  It's bugging me less.  It's odd.   I thought they did a great job making the Nazi look creepy.  IMO they overdid it.  But that's OK.
     Very good ending.  Yes, more vampire vampire killers please.   Maybe more flashbacks about the wife in braces?  Probably.  Very good casting.  Too good to not come back to.
    Glad the got rid of the crazy lady which provided a great moment for the daughter.

    Yes, expecting a big finish.

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    in 2010 (Nolan being the OK guy who beheaded his co-worker last week) says had she known what he would do (the beheading) she would have killed him during the assault.

    2010 assault.

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    Towey (none / 0) (#167)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 03:56:47 PM EST
    Ohio (none / 0) (#177)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Sep 29, 2014 at 04:51:41 PM EST
    High court puts off start of early voting in Ohio

    It is so hard to find time to go to your local school, get a piece of paper, find a box, and put an "x" in it.