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Wednesday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:32:00 AM EST
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Our last open thread is over-filled. Here's a new one, all topics welcome.

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    Wednesday Open Thread | 195 comments (195 topical)
    Gonna miss this guy (5.00 / 5) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:24:45 AM EST
    Stewart: GOP Response To Netanyahu Is The Longest Bl@wjob A Jewish Man Ever Received

    Somewhat related.. (none / 0) (#54)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:00:41 AM EST
    from our friends at The Onion....

    Iran Worried U.S. Might Be Building 8,500th Nuclear Weapon

    Parent
    Which is, like, (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:06:56 AM EST
    14 more than Israel has

    Parent
    More related Onion... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:15:53 AM EST
    Netanyahu Assures Critics He Still Has Utmost Respect For U.S. Money

    Netanyahu added that he also maintained great respect for the U.S. military's weapons.

    Seriously though...the balls on this f*ckin' Netanyahu guy.  Off the teet with his ungrateful arse, I say.

    Parent

    Check out Bill Bratton logic... (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:20:13 PM EST
    The illegal marijuana trade is causing an increase in homicides, so let's blame marijuana.

    "How could you be so obtuse, is it intentional?"

    Yeah Dufrense, with the warden it's always intentional.

    Why are we surprised? (2.20 / 5) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 07:12:18 AM EST
    Hillary has violated the law IF she transmitted government secrets over her personal EMAIL.

    And since she never had a government email account then we must assume that during her DOS tenure she never emailed anything regarding anything of interest to any foreign government or terrorist organization.

    Can anyone believe that?

    Not to mention all the foreign money poured into her foundation.

    Of course she is playing the gender card.

    Now, let us see if Obama's people investigate this with the same vigor they did Petraeus

    Good grief. (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 07:36:34 AM EST
    The law about the email went into effect after Hillary left office and then Petraeas was handing stuff off in his little black book. Not that I expect the facts to change your mind.

    If the GOP thinks they are going to scandal their way into the presidency well, all i can say is you've tried numerous times and it has failed time and again. But then the GOP is insane and we all know that trying the same failed strategy over and over is the definition of insanity.

    Parent

    Do try to keep up (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 07:55:50 AM EST
    former Sec of State Colin Powell did the same thing and the regulations involving e-mail and keeping copies weren't promulgated until well after Hillary left the job in question.

    As  for your smear about the Foundation, you do realize that she doesn't benefit personally from those donations, don't you?

    Thanks for passing on the latest propaganda, I mean entertainment, from the Folks at Fox News.

    Parent

    Of course Hillary benefits (3.00 / 2) (#21)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:33:36 AM EST
    from the money.

    And do you really believe that these foreign governments gave the money just out of the goodness of their hearts??

    Really??

    Parent

    How does (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:39:05 AM EST
    she benefit? She gets no salary from CGI and neither does Bill. You are really stretching the limits with your conspiracy laden stuff.

    Parent
    Her name is on it (1.50 / 2) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:05:55 AM EST
    If the entity benefits then she benefits.

    How would it look if it just collapsed??

    She is being bribed. Period. She is being bribed for  personal access to her.

    That's wrong.

    Parent

    You're kidding. Right? (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:08:49 AM EST
    She receives no financial compensation so therefore she benefits in your world? So if your name is on a statue in TN you benefit from that or if your family's name is on a historical marker you benefit from that even though no one gives you money? Really that is a stretch.

    Parent
    So (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:27:15 AM EST
    do you  all charitable donations bribes ? Or just the ones fronted by people you don't like. If I give to the Catholic Church am I "bribing" the Pope? Your argument here is beyond ridiculous.

    Parent
    So I guess a bribe is a bribe if anyone has anythi (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Amiss on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 12:28:29 PM EST
    to do with the Clinton's? Let's see, Bush 41 has worked tirelessly along Bill's side on various projects.
    Also, please explain to me how easily Brevard County
    Florida's votes were Republican with Jeb at Florida's helm?

    Parent
    This (none / 0) (#98)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:10:41 PM EST
    Melbourne guy has not voted for a Republican  in decades, must have been my wingnut neighbors.

    Parent
    Bribery's a pretty strong charge, Jim. (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 12:36:42 PM EST
    JimskaPPJ: "She is being bribed. Period. She is being bribed for  personal access to her."

    I might just as well come out and state my own suspicions openly, that you're likely a paid troll of the RNC for having posted a comment like that.

    After all, you've long been a parrot for Republican talking points, both here at TL and elsewhere. It should naturally follow that you're probably on the party's payroll.

    Of course, I don't have any actual evidence to support that rather serious allegation -- only my sincere certitude.

    And by your own standards, that's more than enough to see you convicted as charged.

    Period.

    Parent

    Paid? (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by sj on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:24:33 PM EST
    Who knows? Troll? A very tolerated one.

    Parent
    I don't agree (none / 0) (#148)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:25:48 PM EST
    To be paid for something, it usually has to have some value ...

    ... unlike Jim's BS.

    Parent

    BS (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:24:11 PM EST
    What law is being violated by her emailing?  What "bribery" took place and again - what law was violated?  Be specific here, Jim because this is about to become a whole lotta fun ...

    But you won't ... because, as usual, you can't ... because, as usual, you are clueless.

    Parent

    Thats wrong (none / 0) (#196)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 04:48:26 PM EST
    I love it.

    From the guy who couldn't summon up a scintilla of indignation when O'Reilly lied while at the same time demanding Brian William's head on a platter..

    And that's just wrong.

    Parent

    Don't try (none / 0) (#18)
    by Zorba on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:27:58 AM EST
    to confuse him with the facts.  ;-)

    Parent
    What classified information (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:18:34 AM EST
    did Petraeus give his mistress?

    All eight books "collectively contained classified information regarding the identifies of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings... and discussions with the president of the United States

    The books also contained "national defense information, including top secret/SCI and code word information," according to the court papers. In other words: These weren't just ordinary secrets. This was highly, highly classified material. link

    What a great a glorious thing it is to have right wing  heros like Petraeus who gives away national intelligence secrets for a roll in the hay and only gets a slap on the wrist. 😁

    Parent

    Patraeus has been investiagted (1.67 / 3) (#19)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:31:17 AM EST
    and prosecuted.

    And rightfully so. And he has admitted that by taking the deal.

    He was a great general and an American hero but he broke the rules. Why? My guess is the same reason that Hillary has. His ego. He decided that the rules didn't apply to him.

    Too bad you folks don't think the rules apply to your heroine.

    Parent

    An American hero? (5.00 / 4) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:42:03 AM EST
    Broke the rules? A great hero does not give away the identifies of covert officers, war strategy, intelligence capabilities and mechanisms, diplomatic discussions, quotes and deliberative discussions from high-level National Security Council meetings... and discussions with the president of the United States.

    Giving away that type of information is a little more serious than breaking a few rules. Anyone with less political right wing clout would spend years in jail and be seriously mistreated by those who incarcerate them.

    BTW, Hillary is not a heroine to me. Unlike you, I don't make heros out of political figures and primarily that was what Petraeus was.


    Parent

    Jim hasn't linked to any specific rules (5.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:56:20 AM EST
    or regulations that either Hillary or Colin broke or disregarded, but because it's Hillary, he's sure she did something wrong.

    Parent
    Oh My Golly Damned Goodness (5.00 / 8) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:27:04 AM EST
    I like General Petraeus.  I really do.  But he fooked up so badly it is about to make others pass out cross eyed.  This was a Chelsea Manning level fook up.  This was so close to treasonous it was probably treason....Oy vey!  There were names of covert operators in those black books :).  Black books indeed.   And he LIED...he lied his General pants right off (apparently he was doing that a lot right then) telling the investigators he had no classified documents in his possession when he had indeed kept his precious, his Black Books, stuffed in a duffel and in unlocked drawers.  Someone has got to be kidding me! This has GOT to be a joke! But it isn't.

    Can we please not pretend right now that any sort of fair  and equal justice is being visited upon General Petraeus?  It's so bad, it's all so classified, everyone just wants it to go away quietly.  It certainly cannot see the light of day in any courtroom, vampires would explode :)

    And there is like zero comparison here to Clinton emails.  Anybody who thinks differently is just freakin cracked :)

    Parent

    It's all about where you are in the (5.00 / 5) (#62)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:00:31 AM EST
    chain - the higher up you are, the less significant the consequences.

    Peter Maas at The Intercept:

    "The issue is not whether General Petraeus was dealt with too leniently, because the pleadings indicate good reason for that result," said Abbe Lowell, who is Kim's lawyer. "The issue is whether others are dealt with far too severely for conduct that is no different. This underscores the random, disparate and often unfair application of the national security laws where higher-ups are treated better than lower-downs."

    For instance, last year, after a five-year standoff with federal prosecutors, Stephen Kim, a former State Department official, pleaded guilty to one count of violating the Espionage Act when he discussed a classified report about North Korea with Fox News reporter James Rosen in 2009. Kim did not hand over a copy of the report -- he just discussed it, and nothing else -- and the report was subsequently described in court documents as a "nothing burger" in terms of its sensitivity. Kim is currently in prison on a 13-month sentence.

    [...]

    In 2013, former CIA agent John Kiriakou pleaded guilty to violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act by disclosing the name of a covert CIA officer to a freelance reporter; he was sentenced to 30 months in jail. Kiriakou's felony conviction and considerable jail sentence -- for leaking one name that was not published -- stands in contrast to Petraeus pleading guilty to a misdemeanor without jail time for leaking multiple names as well as a range of other highly-sensitive information.

    Kiriakou, released from prison earlier this year, told The Intercept in an emailed statement, "I don't think General Petraeus should have been prosecuted under the Espionage Act, just as I don't think I should have been prosecuted under the Espionage Act. Yet only one of us was. Both Petraeus and I disclosed undercover identities (or confirmed one, in my case) that were never published. I spent two years in prison; he gets two years probation."

    This isn't anything new - it's ALWAYS been about who you are and who you know - and maybe about what you know about someone else.

    But how is it fair for Kim and Kiriakou to essentially have their lives ruined, while Petraeus gets to write a small check and carry on with what will no doubt be a lucrative career in the private sector?  And to still be getting the love from people at the highest levels of government?

    Parent

    Paula Broadwell had a security clearance (none / 0) (#90)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:28:53 PM EST
    That's how they are trying to play this off.  She is/was? in the reserves with military intelligence.  Classified information is supposed to be compartmentalized though and on a need to know basis.  Somehow Paula Broadwell's generic security clearance knew no partitions.

    Parent
    Yes, he "lied to investigators." (none / 0) (#101)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:32:31 PM EST
    FBI investigators which is, itself, a federal crime.  The black books were found on April 5, 2013 by FBI agents on a search of his home.    

    Parent
    Liberal political junkies are supposed to be (none / 0) (#111)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:25:33 PM EST
    Focusing on how crazy Netanyahu was and the fallout from that today.  That is why they announced this plea agreement now.  It was the politically craziest time they could reliably foresee.

    Parent
    To be fair (none / 0) (#33)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:48:12 AM EST
    I suspect it was multiple rolls.

    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 04:19:49 PM EST
    was there a Rick Roll?

    Parent
    Thank you, Cap'n, for shining a spotlight ... (none / 0) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 03:50:07 AM EST
    ... on a truly dark moment in American pop music history. Now, I'll see your Rick Astley, and raise you the Miracles sans Smokey Robinson and for good measure, Disco Tex & The Sex-O-Lettes.

    Nobody puts Baby in a corner.

    Parent

    Pfffft (none / 0) (#167)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:55:59 AM EST

    I would love to know where that video came from for Disco Tex.  clearly more than one source.

    I just hadn't seen my favorite annoying Internet meme ever, the Rick Roll, in along time.

    Parent

    Probably from some local club DJ somewhere. (none / 0) (#178)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 12:07:08 PM EST
    Regardless, it's the music itself which is truly abominable. Those are the songs that make me want to throw furniture through the front window, or something comparable.

    Parent
    By the way... (none / 0) (#202)
    by unitron on Sat Mar 07, 2015 at 04:14:03 AM EST
    ...the guy with the guitar is Stephen Bishop.

    Parent
    Do try to keep up (none / 0) (#9)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 07:58:37 AM EST
    former Sec of State Colin Powell did the same thing and the regulations involving e-mail and keeping copies weren't promulgated until well after Hillary left the job in question.

    As  for your smear about the Foundation, you do realize that she doesn't benefit personally from those donations, don't you?

    Thanks for passing on the latest propaganda, I mean entertainment, from the Folks at Fox News.

    Parent

    et al (2.00 / 1) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:38:06 PM EST
    I have never seen such dodging and duck and justifying...

    Let's review.

    "The Clinton Foundation accepted millions of dollars from seven foreign governments during Hillary Rodham Clinton's tenure as secretary of state, including one donation that violated its ethics agreement with the Obama administration, foundation officials disclosed Wednesday."

    Wa Post

    Donald - Yes it is. But the money is being given in return for something of value. In this case it is obviously access to Hillary and or Bill to allow the foreign government's access to them so they can make their "case." Whatever that "case" may be.  It's the same thing as a sales person taking a customer to the Master's. No business will be talked but the "favor" will be returned by later listening to the sales pitch or directing the salesman on what he needs to do to complete the sale.

    Anne - Thanks for the snark. For a while there I thought you had forgotten me. ;-)

    Amiss - See what I wrote to Donald.

    FLjoe - If you gave the Pope millions and you were a Muslim I would say that you are trying to influence him.

    Ga  - See what I wrote Donald. Plus she benefits by the success of the foundation and..... the bribes are a recognized statement by those giving the bribes of the power Hillary has. This, of course, is noted by the lesser players and helps maintain her position.

    Gotta go now and pick up Grandson from school. We've got freezing Global Warming with a forecast of up to 1" of Global Warming sleet and 5" of snow,


    it's sad (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:44:00 PM EST
    that you think every act must have a quid pro quo attached. Do you expect payback for every act of generosity?

    Parent
    You don't get to set the terms for this debate. (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:47:06 PM EST
    Give the Clinton bashing a rest, dude. Seriously, after 20-plus years of tossing off spurious allegations concerning Whitewater, Paula Jones, the Mena airstrip, the White House travel office, Vincent Foster, Monica!, Monica!!, MONICAAAA!!!! and last but certainly not least, Bennnnnn-GHAZEEEEEeeeee ... !!!, I would imagine that your burlap sack of manufactured right-wing goodies has gotten pretty threadbare.

    (Sigh!) Then again, maybe not.

    Parent

    Baa waa (none / 0) (#107)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:09:30 PM EST
    nobody is dodging anything but they aren't going to justify your crackpot conspiracy theories. Look the GOP is terrified. They can read the numbers as good as anyone else and from that terror springs all this kind of stuff. Smear and fear is all the GOP has these days. No solutions to any problems in the country. Nothing to make the middle class prosper.

    Parent
    Re: AGW (none / 0) (#110)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:24:20 PM EST

    Continuing our monthly look at global weather trends as reported by NOAA here, the average temperature across the planet from January to November 2014 was the warmest period ever on record; with the average land temperature alone the 6th warmest ever recorded. The South, Midwest and East Coast of the United States continue to be global-standouts as cooler than normal locations. Another interesting anomaly in November was snow cover in Canada at the second largest extent on record for the month.

    Link

    Parent

    et al 1 (2.00 / 1) (#130)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:42:08 PM EST
    Mordiggian - Keep the faith. In the meantime the temp trend remains flat.  And even Phil Jones has noticed that.

    Uh, Ga, no one is saying this is a conspiracy. It is just doing what thieves do. The oil folks are paying their dues so they can talk to the right people when they need to.

    Donald- Seriously, Dude, the facts are so over whelming I must award you the most naive person of the year award or the most in denial award. And this has nothing what so ever to do with anything that happened or didn't happen in the past. But your attempt to reframe the discussion is not only expected, but typical. Donald - See what I wrote to FlJoe

    FlJoe - If you actually think people give other people $500,000 just out of the goodness of their hearts....wow... See what I wrote to Donald.


    Parent

    You're funny. (5.00 / 5) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:53:18 PM EST
    You don't care about oil money. The GOP gets the majority of their funding from oil people and we had two failed oil men as VP and Prez who lied to try to get more oil or something. We still haven't figured out exactly the reason Bush lied to the entire country and I'm sure we'll never get the truth out of him.

    When someone tears down your argument you just move the goal posts and start making another argument.

    Hmm, it did not seem to bother you when Newt Gingrich had only one millionaire keeping him alive back in 2012 in the GOP primaries. So since you know what people who give money want do tell what Sheldon Addleson was going to get for his money if Newt had won? And you're making a great argument for voting against the GOP since they get large campaign donations from multinational corporations. So since you know they want something tell me what they want too?

    Parent

    Look at the temp map (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:11:15 PM EST
    at the link.

    Here's how climate data is taken.

    As for your assertion about Jones, you seem to think that I consider him the be-all and end-all of climatologists.

    I don't and I doubt you are characterizing his current views correctly, but please proceed with more evidence-based data against AGW, instead of an appeal to authority, based on what you may have thought you read somewhere else.

    In other words, find some facts, they'll serve you better in the long run than snark.  👽

    Parent

    jim, your approach to multitasking (none / 0) (#142)
    by fishcamp on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 07:24:45 PM EST
    reminds me of a character in a Greek tragedy.  But keep it coming pard...we need the comedy.

    Parent
    et al 2 (none / 0) (#160)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:17:56 AM EST
    Fishcamp - Thanks. I do try to please. BTW - Looks like the evileeeee Repubs funded your favorite agency... the DHS.. who will now continue roaring through your favorite fishing holes.

    Mordiggian - His current views??  You mean the ones after he was taken to task by all his buds for telling the truth? And again.  Show me where the theory you so love meets the requirements of a Scientific Theory. And you don't want facts.  You want to shut down discussion because the "science is settled." (Just like the science that said treat Ga Washington's pneumonia by bleeding him.)

    But, if you want some   facts.

    Donald - Would that be almond, walnut, peanut, hickory nut?? Really?? Look. You know what a bribe is and what happened is a bribe.

    Ga - Would you accept the same actions from a Repub?? You claim otherwise. Can you say "Double standard?????"

    Et al - I never worked for a company that didn't demand I use its email for company business. And when I left they demanded that my personal computer be turned over to the guys in IT who gave it a search to see who and what I had been in contact with to be sure I hadn't passed company information to the competition.

    Are you telling me that Hillary, and all government employees, shouldn't be held to this standard???

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:23:22 AM EST
    You were the one touting Walker for president and he's under a criminal investigation and you're talking about a double standard??? LOL.

    Parent
    Sorry, Jim, but AGW (none / 0) (#170)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:06:34 AM EST
    doesn't stand or fall because of what ever you insinuate about Phil Jones, because science doesn't depend on the authority of  one man, no matter how outstanding or visible he is in a given domain of science.

    The truth is, you don't have any data to back up your claims about AGW being "Made-up"'.

    You don't think people notice it when you try to excerpt from an article about that subject to prove your point, as you have in the past here,  and I demonstrate that you were misrepresenting the article in the first place?

    BTW,  here's the Arctic sea ice report for this month:

    Arctic sea ice extent in February averaged 14.41 million square kilometers (5.56 million square miles). This is the third lowest February ice extent in the satellite record. It is 940,000 square kilometers (362,900 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 long-term average of 15.35 million square kilometers (5.93 million square miles). It is also 50,000 square kilometers (19,300 square miles) above the record low for the month observed in 2005.

    With the Arctic Ocean completely ice covered, the remaining areas of potential new ice growth are limited to the margins of the pack in the northern Pacific and northern Atlantic. Sea ice extent is below average across the entire sea ice margin, most prominently along the Pacific sectors. A small region of above-average ice extent is located near Newfoundland and the Canadian Maritime Provinces.

    The Arctic maximum is expected to occur in the next two or three weeks. Previous years have seen a surge in Arctic ice extent during March (e.g., in 2012, 2014). However, if the current pattern of below-average extent continues, Arctic sea ice extent may set a new lowest winter maximum.

    I'm sorry to burst your bubble this way.  


    Parent

    Then There is... (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:31:30 AM EST
    ...THIS posted last week.  Jim never commented.

    Parent
    Jim's approach to the facts (none / 0) (#175)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:59:56 AM EST
    reminds me of the Richard Pryor routine about being caught in bed with another woman by his significant other:

    "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?"

    Parent

    So That is the Origin... (none / 0) (#182)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 01:32:16 PM EST
    ...of "Who are you going to believe? Me, or your lying eyes?"

    Heard it a million times during the reign of GWB, but had no idea it was a Pryor bit.

    Parent

    Actually, that line was originally delivered ... (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 02:00:42 PM EST
    ... by Chico Marx in the 1933 film "Duck Soup."

    Parent
    It's a pity (none / 0) (#193)
    by jondee on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 04:36:03 PM EST
    neither Limbaugh or Pat Robertson has gotten around to devoting a program to examining in depth how the scientific method has been refined since the time when George Washington's doctors bled him..

    How else are people like Jim supposed to stay on top of all the advances in science in the last 200 + years?

    Jim, the new March National Geographic might as well be dedicated to you.  

    Parent

    Jondee, the requirements for (2.00 / 1) (#197)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 07:04:19 PM EST
    a theory to be a Scientific Theory is distinct from the scientific method.

    I am surprised, yes surprised that you didn't know that but it is apparent you don't.

    But it is not surprising that you fail to grasp that the issue is consensus. The consensus of doctors in Washington's day was that bleeding was the proper treatment.

    Repeat after me.

    Consensus is not science.

    Parent

    Repeat after me (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by FlJoe on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 07:37:52 PM EST
    consensus, backed by solid theory and consistent empirical data IS science, anything else is more like your strawman science
    The consensus of doctors in Washington's day was that bleeding was the proper treatment.
    They lived  before medical science even came to be, very little if any of their methods had anything to do with science.

    For you to make the comparison shows your disdain for modern scientific methods and integrity.To you there is NO science if it does not conform to your worldview. No to you its damn the consensus, damn the theory, damn the evidence, full speed ahead with  your flags of ignorance flying full and proud. The likes of you are going to doom the human race with your foolish arrogance.

    Parent

    A consensus of 97% (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by jondee on Fri Mar 06, 2015 at 03:37:20 PM EST
    of scientists in the 21st century has no relation to a consensus of doctors in the 18th century.

    Repeat after me: Because we know so much more now than we did then.

    But then, you're the one who equates ISIS with the Reich in the late-thirties and equates mainstream Democrats with 20th political radicals.

    In other words, historical analysis and an awareness of the significance of increases in scientific knowledge aren't your strong suits.    

    Parent

    More drama (2.00 / 2) (#177)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 11:37:34 AM EST
    The Brown family is going to sue Ferguson.  They're also planning on naming Darren Wilson in the suit according to Daryl Parks.  I don't see much of a case but it should be fun to watch.

    http://tinyurl.com/l42djl6

    What a Hoot... (5.00 / 2) (#180)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 12:54:40 PM EST
    ...watching his family relive the agony of their son's murder.

    Do you really have to prove, again, and again, that you are a souless SOB ?  Nothing about that trial will be fun in any sense of the word.

    The threshold for a civil trial is majority and with the DOJ report, I can't see how they lose.

    Parent

    Didn't you know, Scott? The fun part (5.00 / 2) (#186)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 02:20:54 PM EST
    is the anticipated destruction of the Brown family's case and a chance to cheer again for the city and PD that spawned Darren Wilson.

    I don't know what it is lately, but some people's idea of "fun" is just creeping me out.  I'm still not over the "fun" of the drinking-himself-to-death story.

    Parent

    Do we really need personal attacks in here? (none / 0) (#194)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 04:46:48 PM EST
    I would never say that about you.  You could have made your civil trial threshold comment without the personal attack but you had to slip it in.    It's funny, some people in here go crazy when they think I'm holding back on my views.  Others flip out when they think I'm being honest.  You shouldn't let someone else's views get to you like that.

    Are you going to avoid watching any of the trial coverage... assuming it goes to trial?  I love watching that stuff.

    Parent

    Yeah... (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Mar 06, 2015 at 07:46:21 AM EST
    ...you can't say that about me because I don't take pleasure in other people's misery.  The truly sad part if you don't even understand just how disguising that comment is.

    Parent
    I assume you meant "disgusting" not (none / 0) (#200)
    by McBain on Fri Mar 06, 2015 at 12:09:36 PM EST
    "disguising"?  There was nothing wrong with my comment of looking forward to trial coverage.  No one is dragging the Brown family into court.  They are choosing to file a civil law suit.  I never said I'm looking forward to them being miserable.  That's you looking for something to be outraged over.

    I'm a high profile case junkie.  That's the main reason I'm on TL... Jeralyn does a good job breaking down these cases and even with your personal attacks, people in here are usually better than most legal case discussion blogs.

    Parent

    Do we really need personal attacks in here? (none / 0) (#195)
    by McBain on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 04:47:43 PM EST
    I would never say that about you.  You could have made your civil trial threshold comment without the personal attack but you had to slip it in.    It's funny, some people in here go crazy when they think I'm holding back on my views.  Others flip out when they think I'm being honest.  You shouldn't let someone else's views get to you like that.

    Are you going to avoid watching any of the trial coverage... assuming it goes to trial?  I love watching that stuff.

    Parent

    You were also desiring ... (none / 0) (#179)
    by Yman on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 12:07:33 PM EST
    ... a civil trial for GZ for your own "selfish voyeuristic reasons" and thought it would be "fun".

    That's beyond strange.

    Parent

    Clinton drama (none / 0) (#1)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:38:41 AM EST
    Why does this kind of drama always seem to follow them?

    Clinton Foundation

    Personal Email address

    I wonder sometimes if she really wants to run because she seems to be making things harder on herself then they need to be.

    Ron Fournier wonders the same thing.  

    What it (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:47:59 AM EST
    is is the fact that the press creates drama where there is none regarding the Clintons. Honestly remember the 90's and all the drama about Whitewater when there really was nothing there ever? At this point no one even listens to it anymore. It never seems to hurt them and doesn't ever seem to help the opposition.

    Parent
    The e-mail thing (none / 0) (#3)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:55:21 AM EST
    will blow over in a few weeks, even if idiot blowhards like Ron Fournier tell us otherwise.

    Also, for desertswine:  Potrzebie!

    Parent

    Apparently (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:59:19 AM EST
    the GOP thinks they are going to scandal their way into the presidency. I guess that is what you do when nobody likes your ideas.

    Parent
    They have ideas, alright (none / 0) (#5)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 07:03:20 AM EST
    it's just that most of them involve taking us back to 1900s, or the 1200s if you're Pat Robinson or that loser Santorum.

    Parent
    Except (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:04:05 AM EST
    People ARE paying attention

    And, she was warned

    This is going to get ugly before it gets better.

    Parent

    As someone once said, jbindc (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:37:42 AM EST
    "There is no there there." For now, enjoy the divertimenti.  (Myself: I'm awaiting comments from former Governor did-the-same-thing-in-disregard-of-state-law Jeb Bush.)

    It doesn't really resonate outside the usual eastern media centers.  Seriously.

    Parent

    Sure, it will get as ugly as people (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:09:18 PM EST
    making it ugly want it to get...which is gonna be ugly.

    Parent
    Huh? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:13:14 AM EST
    Your link does not back up what you are saying. What it says is that Sidney Blumenthal's email account was hacked and that he sent her email on it.

    Parent
    You must be so excited (none / 0) (#12)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:15:22 AM EST
    over a non-story like this to link twice to the same article.

    As for legs, the pearl-clutches will have their way for a week or so, but to try and make this some sort of SCANDAL that will end her run for the Presidency is far beyond the attention span of the public, and unless some sort of smoking gun turns up, this will be a non-story in two weeks or so.

    Parent

    Start digging (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:22:55 AM EST
    deeper and you find that this is coming out of the "elves" again. The guy that sued his own mother is now going to be taking this to court. What a bunch of jokers. It's the birthers redux. She handed over 500,000 emails but that's not going to make the GOP happy. This whole thing apparently seems to be born out of terror from the GOP and coming from the same people who said she was "brain damaged".

    Parent
    Here's the other link (2.00 / 1) (#15)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:25:25 AM EST
    Link

    And wait!  I thought I was a Hillary alcolyte (just ask your friend, Politikix)!  Now I'm a pearl cluthcher?

    Goodness knows, I can't keep up with nonsense spewed about me by those who aren't very bright, it seems.

    Parent

    Don't know about Politikix (1.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:37:46 AM EST
    who I have never interacted with here or anywhere else , but that you're a pearl-clutcher of the first water is obvious from anyone with two brain cells to rub together reading your comments here.

    Parent
    The article (none / 0) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:38:01 AM EST
    also talks about the possiblity of the SOS account not being secure. And it probably wasn't if it was the same one that Condi Rice used. She apparenlty used a server that no one even knew about. Sounds more secure but not that it is going to quell the screaming of the elves.

    Parent
    That's really the only interesting/funny.... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:45:02 AM EST
    thing to me about the story so far...that a high ranking government official thought .gov was not secure enough. dot mother*ckin' gov!

    And instead of getting to work securing .gov, they did their own thing.  Which may have been practical, but embarrassing as hell for the US Govt. they were a part of.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:49:51 AM EST
    that's the real issue. Why is .gov not secure? That is the question everybody needs to be asking instead of this stupid nonsense.

    Parent
    And we don't wanna hear... (none / 0) (#43)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:09:24 AM EST
    the answer, because it's scary (or reassuring, depending who you ask)...there is no such thing as secure email.  Encryption is the best one can do, and even that is not secure, just less susceptible to spying.

    Somebody should also ask Hillary why she thought the clintonemail.com domain was less insecure than .gov, and if the answer is satisfactory, why don't we just put the whole government on the clintonemail.com server?  

    Parent

    Apparently she had her own server (none / 0) (#44)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:14:15 AM EST
    which would explain a lot, although I doubt that it was located at her home in Chappaquiddick.

    Parent
    Good lord...that's Chappaqua (5.00 / 4) (#86)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:18:33 PM EST
    let's not bring Chappaquiddick into it.

    Parent
    I was confused (none / 0) (#95)
    by CST on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:49:19 PM EST
    Didn't realize Clinton had moved to MA.

    Also, for all the political "history" - Chappaquiddick is one of the most beautiful places on earth.

    And if you're willing to work insane hours slinging drinks for the tourists - you get to spend your one (if you're lucky) day off at the most beautiful beaches on the planet.  I've traveled a lot, but once it gets in your blood there's nothing quite like it.

    Most of the politicians stay on the big island these days.  Less baggage perhaps.

    Parent

    To be fair... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:01:47 PM EST
    Chappaqua really isn't "home" either, it's just where the most winnable open US Senate seat was back in 2000.

    Parent
    No, kdog (none / 0) (#100)
    by sj on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:28:55 PM EST
    I don't think that really is fair. Baltimore wasn't my home when I accepted a job offer and moved there. But you seem to be implying that,  since I had an ulterior motive for relocating, it could never become my home.

    Parent
    Not my intended implication... (none / 0) (#108)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:09:52 PM EST
    Chappaqua could become her home...but I don't think it has.  I assume you've planted roots in B'More and have become a part of the community, I don't think we can say the same for the Clintons in Chappaqua.  Same goes for one of my heroes, Keith Richards.  He has a house in Connecticut but I would never describe Connecticut as his "home", just one of his many residences.  London is his home.

    Not there is anything wrong with being a vagabond.

    Parent

    Does it "follow" them, or is it (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:39:40 AM EST
    in large part manufactured in order to attach to them?

    Take this latest "scandal."  Michael Tomasky in the Daily Beast:

    The article says that there were "new" regulations that Clinton was supposed to abide by. It notes that one past secretary of state, Colin Powell, who served from 2001 to 2005, sometimes used his personal email account "before the new regulations went into effect."

    So, a key question would seem to be this: When did the new regulations go into effect? If 2007 or 2008, then Clinton would appear to be in direct violation of them, depending on what precisely they said. If later, it gets a little murkier.

    Oddly, the Times article doesn't say. It doesn't pin the new regs down to a specific date or even year.

    Now, I know enough about reporting to know how this works. If you've got an airtight case, then you lay it all out there. You include the date. Indeed you emphasize the date, you put it high up in your story. The fact that it's not in there is a little fishy.

    Well, this might be the explanation: The new regs apparently weren't fully implemented by State until a year and half after Clinton left State.

    I note, also, that none of the news reports I heard yesterday bothered to inform the public about the timeline of the regulations.  Why do you suppose that is?  Well, in my opinion, to do so would turn a potential scandal into a so-what, obvious attempt to create something out of nothing.  It may be the worst kind of reporting there is.

    One more thing: do we think Clinton is a complete idiot?  Do we think she consulted not at all with the State Department's own IT people to make sure her e-mail was secure?

    Do the media and the scandal-fetishists in the GOP think we're complete idiots, too?  Do they really think we aren't asking if it's even remotely possible that NO ONE at State, no one with whom she was communicating - and that includes the media - had even an inkling at all that she wasn't using a government account?

    Honestly, I just have no patience for this kind of garbage.  And make no mistake, garbage is what it is.

    Parent

    It is going to get ugly no matter what (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:06:25 PM EST
    I am just so glad that she has not announced her candidacy yet. Then the GOP will get really serious, heh, on the mud slinging. It is like horses on the  race line wanting to get out of the gate first and snorting and pushing forward and having to hold back until the gate opens. So the GOP throws out daily old news and hopes it will stick. I was disgusted over that Bill painting and the artist proudly putting in a Monica reference and making sure he announced it to the world. Otherwise, I would not even recognize the shadow. What kind of artist would proudly do that? But this is usual BS we have to contend with until she makes her announcement. Then it will be the bubbly Jeb with a beer and ribs against the evil liberal queen. I think we will have to start getting prepared as it is just around the corner. You go girl, our gloves can come off too and we will have your back.  

    Parent
    It's going to get very ugly (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:30:59 PM EST
    yes, it is. The GOP is circling the drain and there's nothing worse than a cornered rat. Apparently the GOP has nothing to offer the voters.

    But if anybody can handle this nonsense it would be her. And the sexism the GOP is going to throw out there will probably go to exceedingly high levels of disgusting.

    Parent

    The GOP (none / 0) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:49:10 AM EST
    is full of naieve knuckleheads who will swallow every conspiracy theory hook line and sinker and apparently they think the rest of the country is just as dumb.

    Parent
    Yes, that's been posted a couple of times (none / 0) (#39)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:52:51 AM EST
    What it ignores, however, is the Federal Records Act, which HAS been the law for  much longer.

    So while Mr. Tomasky and you think. this the final word, please know that it b is not, as experts are trying to first this out as we speak.  And watching Democrats become the absolute hypocrites we all know them to be, as they once screamed about personal emails being used in the US Attorney firing scandal and by Karl Rove, is kind of hilarious.

    Parent

    What you ignore is that in the (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:56:23 AM EST
    US Attorney debacle, and with Karl Rove, personal e-mail accounts were being used to hide what was going on behind the scenes; in this case, Clinton had one e-mail account out of which she conducted the government's business.

    Perhaps your glee at thinking you have another opportunity to call the Dems hypocrites has clouded your ability to see that Clinton's exclusive use of a personal e-mail account was not for the purpose of concealing anything from anyone.  

    Which is not to say that I wouldn't like to know why she didn't conduct government business via a government e-mail account, but it's not clear to me that her use of the personal account was in violation of rules and regulations, nor is it clear to me that whatever it is that using the personal account means has to have been nefarious.

    I'm well aware that there has been no final word on the issue of the use of the e-mail account.  I just found it garbage reporting for the NYT to publish an entire article about the "possibility" that some rule or rules may have been broken with not one word about when the rules were implemented.

    Let's be clear about one thing: this isn't about the NYT's concerns about security, it's about stirring the pot, loading the cannons and being ready with plenty of ammo when and if she officially gets into the race.  And by writing the article the way it did, the NYT has assured that it simply won't matter when and if Clinton is completely exonerated for use of the account - as far as the public is concerned, as far as the future political ads are concerned, Clinton is a sneaky, rule-breaking politician who can't be trusted.

    Parent

    What I'm really referring (2.00 / 2) (#58)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:37:36 AM EST
    to is as in the 90s we will for the next two or six years get stories like these over and over again were "The Clintons" don't technically violate the rules per se but there is always a hint of impropriety that allow their critics to attack and her defenders to claim unfair criticism.    

    So you have our secretary of state using her personal email to do international business.  Anyone who is slightly skeptical says there is no way she's handed over every single email that she used on that account.  How are we to know?  I suppose we just have to take her word for it. So this whole issue comes down to do you trust the Clintons and take them at their word or do you not?

    The Clinton foundation is a little more serious to me. Are we just to assume that all the donations foreign countries gave it come with strings attached if she becomes president?   Again if you trust them you assume everything is on the up and up. If you don't trust them then you wonder.

    Just like the 90s we will continue to see them put their supporters and their critics in this position over and over again. At some point one would think where there's smoke there's fire. It's like they just don't know how to do anything without creating some sort of controversy.

    The real question is do these small stories continue to remind people on voting day that if they vote for her they are voting for four more years of this and even if it does do you care?

    Parent

    Look (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:13:53 AM EST
    it's the same story it always has been. The elves stir up stuff and feed it to the press. Even if the Clintons release 1,000,000 documents it never seems to prove anything according to the elves. There is a whole cottage industry that does nothing but this. Yes, the elves are going to be working overtime but they will continue this insanity because they have nothing to lose. The GOP is circling the drain and it's the only hope they have right now. Losing another presidential election will tell the world they're not a player anymore and no one should take them seriously.

    And what the CGI takes in donations should have no bearing. And as far as campaign donationis, well, if we could get rid of Citizen's United that would clean that up but it's yet another thing the GOP screams about but won't do anything to solve.

    Parent

    Doesn't (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:57:58 AM EST
    it make the GOP monstrous hypocrites as well then?

    Parent
    What part of the Federal Records Act (none / 0) (#42)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:01:16 AM EST
    did Hillary and Colin violate?  It wasn't cited in the NYT original article with any detail or specificity of how she may have violated it, so if you know more than the NYT, please continue, jbindc.

    Parent
    There is no definite, specific statement (3.67 / 3) (#49)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:47:17 AM EST
    of legal violation ... because there isn't any.  This will be extended via Repub talking points. BTW, I agree with your assertion that jbindc is holding hard to the pearl strand with the same grasp that she ultimately holds onto Repub talking points.  (Of course, of course ... it surely must be a coincidence for jbindc ... as it always it. :))

    Parent
    Well maybe not (none / 0) (#59)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:54:06 AM EST
    New York Times

    Federal regulations since 2009 require that all of her correspondence must be archived on official state department  servers. She did not do this but instead used her server for backing up.  This is either a simple mistake and her aids did not realize they were violating federal regulations or it was done on purpose so she could control what people saw if there were any questions into her actions.

    Again if you trust her or don't want to care this is no big deal if you don't this screams classic Clinton impropriety.

    Parent

    Again (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:17:56 AM EST
    vague and unspecific claims. And she was there for four years and no one said anything about her doing this? C'mon this is just silly.

    Again, Scott Walker had deliberate emails set up like Karl Rove to hide what he was actually doing and who he was talking to and I seem to remember you touting him as presidential material. Right? Hillary just had ONE account. Rove and Walker had multiple but I guess that is/was okay.

    Parent

    "Classic Clinton impropriety" (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:40:31 PM EST
    If HC burps it "screams classic Clinton impropriety" to the wingers.  the simple solution is to ignore their silly tinfoil theories.

    Parent
    Like Whitewatergate? (none / 0) (#61)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:58:03 AM EST
    Sorry, but this doesn't extend to even that "scandal".  And if there is any evidence of deliberate concealment or skullduggery on her part, let the chips fall when they may.

    Parent
    Why does this kind of drama follow the Clintons? (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 12:21:35 PM EST
    Slado: "Why does this kind of drama always seem to follow them? [...] Ron Fournier wonders the same thing."

    Because there's an entire retinue of professional scavengers like Ron Fournier who've made a virtual career -- and a nice living, BTW -- over these past 23 years, chasing after the Clintons (among other public figures) and looking for it. And if they can't find anything, why, they simply manufacture it themselves.

    Former Sen. John Danforth (R-MO) pretty much summed up my own thoughts yesterday regarding this sort of cutthroat political scandal-mongering yesterday, as he eulogized Tom Schweich, a GOP candidate for Missouri governor who took his own life last week. And that's all I'm going to say on this matter.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Didn't Hillary have a phrase for this? (none / 0) (#99)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:27:12 PM EST
    "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy"

    Right out of the Clinton playbook.   Whenever their motives, character or actions are questioned the first response is always to attack the source, then the motives of the source, then find past examples of similar actions by the other party and last but not least chalk it up to a simple mistake.

    Never ever admit for a second that every time these two are at center stage signs of inside dealing and self serving promotion are soon to follow.  She did not just use a personal email she set up and hosted her own email server.  She spent her own money just to have the flexibility to be able to keep her emails separate from the people she worked for, the state department.

    Parent

    That (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by sj on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:34:28 PM EST
    "Vast Right Wing Conspiracy" that she referred to happened to actually exist. Her real mistake, apparently, was saying that out loud.

    Parent
    The Beltway media would have people think that ... (5.00 / 3) (#187)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 02:44:02 PM EST
    ... it's all one vast right-wing coincidence, how wingbats somehow always manage to work together in concert and parrot each other simultaneously.

    What the media did to Bill and Hillary Clinton with years of Whitewater rumormongering was thoroughly unprofessional, to the point of despicable. In order to demonize the Clintons, who were actually duped in a property investment scam, they willingly allowed the GOP to misrepresent James McDougal as a supposed victim of that couple's unbridled lust for power, when he was really nothing more than a financial con artist like Charles Keating.

    This most recent manufactured pseudo-scandal about HRC's emails on private servers is -- like so many prior tales spun about the Clintons by the east coast media -- nothing more than lousy high school-level gossip from a vain and self-enamored group of Beltway Heathers, who'd sooner double and even triple down on stupid, than ever admit that they were perhaps premature and maybe even wrong in their latest hasty rush to yet another damning but false conclusion.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    "Separate from the people she (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Anne on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:06:21 PM EST
    worked for?"  No, Slado - she only had one account, she was communicating via that account with the people she worked with, and because those people all had government e-mail accounts, the e-mails were being preserved and archived on government servers.  Which "the rules" said at the time was perfectly okay.

    The fact that you don't know any of this tells me you're not just manufacturing stories to suit the narrative you believe in, you're also helping to prove the existence of a VRWC, not debunking it as you thought.

    Oops!  

    Parent

    Honestly (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:12:03 PM EST
    I did not think Republicans could get any crazier but like a cornered rat they are lashing out and latching onto anything they can in desperation. You're using reason and facts and all they are selling is hysteria and insanity.

    Parent
    When you're a clown car ... (none / 0) (#126)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:29:41 PM EST
    ... on a perpetual snipe hunt, trafficking in rumore and innuendo is just so much easier than actual governance, not to mention a lot more fun.

    Parent
    That would only be saved (none / 0) (#134)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:00:16 PM EST
    if she sent to people that worked for the US Government.

    What about emails she sent to others?  We have no access to those so we simply have to trust her.  If she sent emails to foreign counterparts and didn't copy a .gov then again we trust her.  

    She was in violation of the 2009 regulation at a minimum.  If you trust her then that's it and I doubt anyone is going to do anything about it.  


    Parent

    No violation (none / 0) (#135)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:05:31 PM EST
    and even the press is now backtracking and talking about "optics" If you're going to encourage journalistic malpractice because it suits what you want to believe don't be surprised if it comes back and gets you too.

    Parent
    Oh it's got a few more days (none / 0) (#154)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:40:09 PM EST
    McLatchy via the Fresno Bee

    Posted 4 hours ago.

    Got to figure out just how bad or good the security was on the server she kept in her home to conduct state department business in.   Security I assume she paid for herself?  

    She could get a google email or one from her foundation for harmless personal stuff and then use the free government email for work stuff.  

    Instead she spent her own money to not only set up her own mail server but to also run and secure it.  Why?   No one has really explained this one.  I can think of tons of bad reasons but the good ones are harder to understand.  Please explain why and then why she never told her boss who I'm sure was thrilled to have this one dropped in his lap this week.

    Parent

    Like NYC (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 05:07:04 AM EST
    says before you honestly think nobody who recieved her email realized she had her own server until it was reported to the NYT? .Gov has been hacked so maybe that's the reason. Usually the simplest reason is the answer but this is starting to sound like Bob Dole circa 1996 with all the conspiracy theories. Like Jeralyn said don't vote for her but all the nonsense coming out of the GOP jihadi is so over the top it's getting to be hysterical.

    Parent
    Something I do not want readily (none / 0) (#161)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:20:09 AM EST
    Available to just anybody are the fine details about my SOS doing her job.  Her fave food at an event.  Some friend sending her a gift....no thanks. Those things can place her life at risk.  And God help us if our SOS was hurt or killed somewhere somehow.  Fox News makes certain the whole country can think clearly under stress.

    Parent
    Didn't tell her boss? (3.50 / 2) (#157)
    by nycstray on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:26:59 PM EST
    So basically you're saying nobody noticed her email address until the NYT pointed it out?

    Funny you can't see the real obvious good reason (or more) for her to have her own secure server . . . you seem brighter than that  :)

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#137)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:07:13 PM EST
    emails sent to her staff with the same domain would not be archived.

    Again we will trust they never did government work this way.

    Parent

    Any you know for certain that ... (none / 0) (#188)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 02:57:29 PM EST
    ... HRC and her staff at the State Dept. all had the same domain -- how, exactly? Hers was a private email account on a different and private server. Were all senior State Dept. email accounts similarly private, with the same domain and hosted on that same exact server? No, they were not. You're clearly trying to convince yourself with your own conjecture that there's somehow a real issue with HRC's conduct, when the actual facts fail to support your contentions.

    Parent
    Woo-HOOoooo ... !!! (none / 0) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:19:51 PM EST
    For House Republicans, it's Benghazimania Redux.

    Parent
    Easy (none / 0) (#149)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:31:46 PM EST
    Because the wingnuts follow them and their silly imaginations are rarely confined by facts or reality.

    Anything else?

    Parent

    Since you are always the only one (none / 0) (#155)
    by Slado on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:50:49 PM EST
    on TL with the "facts" please lay them out for us so we don't waste time.  

    Why did she need her own email?

    Why did she go the extra step to host the server in her personal residence?

    How good was the security?

    Did she ever use that email to contact people outside of government causing the email not to be archived?

    Just the facts please.  

    Parent

    I'm not the only one ... (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:08:27 PM EST
    ... with facts on TL, but I do believe in facts overs specious allegations phrased as "questions".

    I guess you prefer the latter.  Get back to me when you have some facts to back up your silly claims.

    Parent

    Two wrongs make a right? (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:25:33 AM EST
    Is that the best you can do??

    And the law regarding secret information has been around a bit longer.

    Her personal email account was handled by server that had zip security protection.

    Do you think that our Dear Leaders should follow the same rules as the rest of us??

    None of that (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:45:48 AM EST
    you know. According to the security people the SOS email account might not have been secure and you don't know who was handling the security for the private email account.

    There comes a point Jim where after almost three decades of scandal mongering by the GOP and their coterie of crackpots like that moron that sued his own mother that nobody is going to listen to you. Remember you're the one that has fallen for all the Benghazi hoaxes and conspiracy theories.

    Parent

    Nope, I'm saying that he didn't do anything wrong (none / 0) (#20)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:32:17 AM EST
    under the laws covering e-mails at that time, the same laws that Hillary was under when she was Sec of State, so therefore, neither did she.

    As for dear leaders, yes, I think that it's a good idea for Roger Ailes and his employees at Fox News to follow the same rules as the rest of us.

    Parent

    Okay, wrong and right doesn't (1.50 / 2) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:35:56 AM EST
    matter to you when Democratic heros and heroines are involved. And yes Powell is a Democrat.

    Glad we got that straight.

    Parent

    I have no respect for Powell (5.00 / 5) (#47)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:36:07 AM EST
    no matter what party he is affiliated with. I can understand why you might not consider him to be a Republican, since while lacking in integrity, he is not as bat sh!t crazy as the politicians you prefer. But you are trying unsuccessfully to change facts.

    President Reagan is on record stating that Powell would make a great Republican president. link

    In 1995, Powell turned down requests to run for president on the Republican ticket. link

    Colin Powell, himself, has stated that he is still a Republican. link

    And his name is once again being floated as a possible candidate for the Republican nomination for president. link


    Parent

    Jim must deal with the Powell (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:55:45 AM EST
    he has, not the one he wishes we had.

    Parent
    Uh, Powell was never a Democrat (none / 0) (#30)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:44:02 AM EST
    but why let mere facts get in the way of a good indignant rant?

    A liberal Republican, Powell is well known for his willingness to support liberal or centrist causes.[71] He is pro-choice regarding abortion, and in favor of "reasonable" gun control.[71][clarification needed] He stated in his autobiography that he supports affirmative action that levels the playing field, without giving a leg up to undeserving persons because of racial issues. Powell was also instrumental in the 1993 implementation of the military's don't ask, don't tell policy,[71] though he later supported its repeal as proposed by Robert Gates and Admiral Mike Mullen in January 2010, saying "circumstances had changed".[72]

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Parent

    Mordiggian (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 08:51:01 AM EST
    Since we have people here that say Obama isn't a Dem, it's only fair for Jim to say Powell isn't a Republican.

    Parent
    How would Jim know, when he keeps insisting ... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:36:09 PM EST
    ... that he's a political independent?

    Parent
    Powell is a Democrat (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:07:56 AM EST
    He endorsed Obama and voted for Obama.

    Parent
    I guess the Republicans who (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by MO Blue on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:29:29 AM EST
    are promoting him as a presidential candidate in 2016 would strongly disagree with you.

    You seem to have this ongoing problem of not being able to discern the difference between facts and your opinion (or fiction, which for the most part are one and the same).

    Parent

    That's white-wing crackpotted nonsense, Jim. (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 12:44:17 PM EST


    Parent
    THAT'S your standard? (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by Yman on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:45:16 PM EST
    The "independent" who voted for every Republican presidential candidate for the past 34 years?!?

    Heh, heh, heh ...

    Parent

    So did David Petraeus (none / 0) (#204)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 12, 2015 at 01:09:32 PM EST
    So did Stanley McChrystal

    Parent
    How do you know anything... (none / 0) (#63)
    by unitron on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:04:59 AM EST
    ...about Clinton's server?  Been hacking it?

    Parent
    The wisdom of Ben Carson (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:53:12 AM EST
    sexual orientation is clearly a choice because when guys come out all they care about is breaking into houses to steal the Limoges porcelain and rearrange the furniture.

    How Can a Neurosurgeon... (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:38:17 AM EST
    ... not at least pretend to understand the dynamics of prison in regards to sex.  He does, he has to, but he also has to toss all that stuff in the trash can if he wants to be in GOP politics.

    He just cannot be that GD stoopid.

    Parent

    This is a perfect (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:44:08 AM EST
    example of how the GOP primary destroys any sense of sanity. It doesn't matter who they are by the time they get done trying to round up votes for themselves they sound like they are insane.

    Parent
    A holder of a (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:22:25 PM EST
    degree from Yale, and the University of Michigan Medical School Scott. So he's got the prerequisite papers to be president!

    Sh*t even an 8th grade dropout knows a straight man can make sexy time with a man, or a gay man can make sexy time with a woman, for any number of reasons.  But it doesn't change the fact that they are straight or gay.


    Parent

    Ana Marie Cox (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:42:24 PM EST
    maybe time to come up with a new description of a task that does not require intelligence than "it's not brain surgery"

    Parent
    Everytime (none / 0) (#53)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:56:43 AM EST
    a Republican opens their mouth it's comedic gold.

    Parent
    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:16:24 AM EST
    thank god someone was on hand to offer A cogent response-

    "A lot of people go into jail as a drug addict and they come out as a criminal," Cuomo responded. "Does that mean that all drug addicts are criminals?"


    Parent
    Walking it back (none / 0) (#143)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:04:42 PM EST
    "I realized that my choice of language does not reflect fully my heart on gay issues," Carson said. "I do not pretend to know how every individual came to their sexual orientation. I regret that my words to express that concept were hurtful and divisive. For that I apologize unreservedly to all that were offended."

    As political apologies go, it's not terrible.

    Parent

    Otoh (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:06:54 PM EST
    In 2013, Carson withdrew as the commencement speaker at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine after comparing homosexuality to bestiality and pedophilia. Carson also issued an apology for his "poorly chosen" remarks.



    Parent
    Better Call Saul? (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:57:34 AM EST
    maybe I just needed a laugh but I thought the Positive Reinforcement Talking Toilet was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

    The earth just moved (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:09:37 AM EST
    I laughed so hard I actually hurt.

    Parent
    Did you see the show (none / 0) (#72)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:19:13 AM EST
    or are laughing at the concept?  If not omg you have to see the show.  The inventor is perfectly cast.

    Parent
    I love Saul (none / 0) (#163)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:27:47 AM EST
    and watching him being drawn into crime is a good parallel with BB.

    I got the biggest laugh watching Saul struggle on how to extract himself from the "inventor." His expressions and body language were priceless.

    Parent

    Havent seen the new episode yet (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:12:58 PM EST
    Looking forward to it tonight!  In general I am really enjoying Better Call Saul.

    Parent
    I think it's about to get good (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:51:56 PM EST
    with Mike entering the story as more than a parking lot attendant

    Parent
    Just watched, that toilet scene was hysterical (none / 0) (#150)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:34:55 PM EST
    Poor Jimmy. I think this show has such potential to go all kinds of different directions, all interesting. They could even bring it up to the parallel time frame with Breaking Bad, and just show what Saul was doing when he wasn't dealing with Walt and Jesse.

    Are you still watching The Jinx? Episode 4 was amazing. Talk about a bold defense strategy!

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#153)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 10:03:30 PM EST
    yes and yes

    Jinx-fascinating.  

    Parent

    Jinx really stuck with me last night (none / 0) (#176)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 11:00:58 AM EST
    Very haunting. Maybe it was all the pictures of the chopped up body parts, coupled with the 'what else could I do?' explanation.

    Parent
    Since Donald brought it up.... (none / 0) (#66)
    by unitron on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 11:08:26 AM EST
    ...in the now overflowing Sunday thread, here's a liberal black lawyer's explanation of the perfectly reasonable reasons why Cleveland's response to the Tamir Rice family lawsuit contained the wording that it did.

    The word-parsing of a liberal black lawyer ... (none / 0) (#120)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 04:07:00 PM EST
    ... and Cleveland Law Director Barbara Langhenry herself doesn't necessarily mean that the rest of us are now required to reconcile the latter's response to Goodwin v. Cleveland with what we saw happen on video.

    Tamir Rice was shot dead by Officer Loehmann within two seconds of the latter's screeching arrival on the scene -- 1.7 seconds exactly, as video experts inform us. The policeman intemperately shot first and asked questions later. That poor 12-year-old child was never given a chance to explain anything. And Rice's age cannot be emphasized enough, because this was someone's child who we saw killed onscreen, not some "gangsta" or "thug to be" as some white wingbats would have it.

    I fully realize that by using particular language, Ms. Langhenry was seeking to robustly invoke specific legal principles on behalf of the city in its formal response to the family's complaint, which was filed last December. But from a political standpoint, she proved herself to be completely obtuse by failing to consider the general public's reaction to those assertions, once her response was filed with the court and became public.

    Civil litigation doesn't always occur in a media vacuum, and definitely not in regard to this now-notorious shooting. Further, Mayor Frank Jackson and the city only ten weeks ago entered into a consent decree with the U.S. Dept. of Justice, pledging to curb the excesses and reform the conduct of the Cleveland police.

    Therefore, there are eminently sound reasons why Jackson hastened to apologize so quickly and publicly yesterday to both Rice's family and his own increasingly angry constituents, and distance himself from the tone-deaf words of his own city's chief legal counsel.

    Rather than defending the City of Cleveland, I think Langhenry's hamhanded response in Goodwin will likely compel Jackson to settle this tragic matter with the family out of court.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Chairman Meow. (none / 0) (#81)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 12:44:34 PM EST
    In a rather catty comment by that Southern gentleman/warmonger, Senator Lindsey Graham, a testing the waters Republican presidential candidate, mocked Nancy Pelosi's face lifts.   Mrs. Pelosi was not amused by Netanyahu and Lindsey could see past the face lift mask and promptly took to the fainting couch: "Did you see Nancy Pelosi on the floor? Complete disgust."  If you can get through  all the surgeries."

    Subject Change... (none / 0) (#82)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 12:56:18 PM EST
    ...anyone got something beyond Clinton or Ferguson ?

    I am dead sick today and could stand to read about something enjoyable.

    I got THIS.  It's a weasel riding on a flying woodpecker.  And if that isn't hilarious enough, here is the same IMAGE, but with Putin riding the weasel, shirtless, while the weasel is riding a flying woodpecker.

    Here is a cool picture (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by CST on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:24:38 PM EST
    of Hogwarts made out of snow.

    Parent
    Yay Snow! (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:39:12 PM EST
    We've been advised to expect another 6 inches overnight on top of today's rain...figure 8's on the roads tomorrow morning should be real fun!

    But for a winter dose of "it could be worse", I only need to look north to Boston.

    Snow be damned, I'm going to see Los Lobos tomorrow night with my main man Alejandro Escovedo guest appearing.  Keep on rockin' till spring comes a knockin'.

    Parent

    It hit 40 today (none / 0) (#96)
    by CST on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:53:07 PM EST
    We haven't had a real blizzard in a few weeks, they are finally starting to clear some of the massive snowbanks, at least off major roadways, and the snow is starting to slowly melt.  From a morale standpoint we seem to have turned a corner.

    Honestly at this point, we're just looking to break the yearly record.  Although since we're only 2" away from that, I think we're all on board with just barely breaking the record, and this week might do it.

    Then hopefully there won't be too much more snow, although the great melt come spring will bring it's own set of problems.

    Parent

    Bad news good news (none / 0) (#103)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 02:43:22 PM EST
    i wake up from a nap and it is SNOWING.  I don't think I have ever seen bigger flakes.  We are in for around 8 inches.   The good news is they say thus will be the last one for the foreseeable future.   And it's supposed to be in the 50s on Friday.  60s for the weekend.
    That and the fact the doctors said some quite time might be best for my sister.  Fewer visitors and less stimulation.   It gives everyone a break. Especially in this weather.

    Parent
    There is a winter storm warning ... (none / 0) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:12:35 PM EST
    ... currently in effect for the Big Island's mountains. The University of Hawaii Observatory atop Mauna Kea looks all but completely socked in.

    Over here on Oahu, we're merely getting a lot of rain and wind. For tourists, there's always my mother's favorite little gem, the Honolulu Museum of Art, for days like today.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    TCM (none / 0) (#124)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:18:12 PM EST
    has given us a perfect snow day. Dementia 13, The Last Man on Earth, Spider Baby and Night of the Lepus.

    Parent
    "Night of the Lepus"! Yes! (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:44:49 PM EST
    A camp classic that's smothered with Velveeta, straight out of a sub-genre of film which also gave us "Trog."

    Hope you've stocked up on some decent bong product.

    Parent

    This is fun (none / 0) (#94)
    by ZtoA on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 01:44:20 PM EST
    been re-circulating a bit recently. Link  This article is only the tip of the iceberg as far as his weirdness goes. He died (committed suicide?) on Good Friday. Nice message to his uber christian fan club.

    Parent
    What's fun about the story (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:43:56 PM EST
     of a man who drank himself to death?

    Parent
    That Was Not Fun... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:31:01 AM EST
    ...it's not bad enough to read about some right wing spiritual artist, but the story also has a horrible ending.

    Parent
    You miss the point (none / 0) (#203)
    by ZtoA on Mon Mar 09, 2015 at 09:37:51 PM EST
    It seems most likely that he actually committed suicide and chose good friday for his departure, almost as a way to redeem himself. Not funny, true, but odd and strange.

    Parent
    kdog's dad drank himself to death. (none / 0) (#117)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:51:07 PM EST
    "Fun?"

    Parent
    This made me laugh (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:44:34 PM EST
    WaPo Columnist: Rand Paul Wasn't Clapping For Bibi Nearly Enough

    Parent
    Oh, good lord (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 03:50:12 PM EST
    These people are nuts.

    Parent
    I am visualizing (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 04:00:34 PM EST
    right wingers weeping and rending their garments like women do in the presence of the Korean Dear Keader.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 04:04:47 PM EST
    that's pretty much it. They demand that everybody do everything the way they think it should be done. Apparently they are made at Nancy Pelosi too because she didn't clap when they thought she should clap. Good grief. Do they realize this kind of stuff is why everybody laughs at them?

    Parent
    Dang Man... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:29:48 AM EST
    ...I am still laughing, never heard of someone getting dissed for not clapping enough.

    Parent
    How about a ... (none / 0) (#122)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 04:52:33 PM EST
    ... video hike through Oahu's Kuliouou State Forest Reserve from valley floor to ridgeline, as shot recently by our friend howzitboy? (Kuliouou Valley, of course, is home.)

    And if some of that failed to steal your breath away, howzitboy has this video, in which he chronicles a few east Oahu hikes that are definitely not for the acrophobic.

    Finally, there's the latest Tom Tomorrow.

    Hope you feel better.

    Parent

    On hiking (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:38:28 PM EST
    this recently found me on FB

    the worlds most dangerous footpath

    Parent

    Oops (none / 0) (#129)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 05:40:58 PM EST
    cool but wrong path

    Parent
    I Watched a Modern Marvels... (none / 0) (#168)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:57:31 AM EST
    ...show about the 10 most dangerous roads in the world.  One in particular, The Death Road has become an attraction for mountain bikers.

    Nearly a person a day had died on the road.

    For the locals, the 'Death Road' is an important transport route which they brave in cars and trucks, teetering on the edge and risking their lives with every trip.

    For companies such as Gravity Bolivia, a cycling tour company that offers riders the opportunity to experience the once in a lifetime journey through clouds and waterfalls, it's big business.

    Derren Patterson, the 28-year-old manager of Gravity Bolivia, says the death toll on the road shouldn't be viewed as a deterrent but rather a reason to ensure tourists ride with a reputable guide.




    Parent
    Beautiful (none / 0) (#169)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:06:11 AM EST
    im sure the photos don't do it justice but it looks a bit like Big Tujunga and Little Tujunga Canyon Roads very near where I used to live in LA. very popular with bikers, including yours truly.  A EMT friend said there was a specific kind of injury common on them.  Decapitation as a biker comes leaning into a curve in one direction and an unfortunately timed car or truck comes from the other.

    Takes a special kind of person to get excited about The Death Road as a fun destination.

    Parent

    I Used to Be a Serious Mountain Biker... (none / 0) (#185)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 02:18:27 PM EST
    ...in Wisconsin, but flat A Texas curbed that.

    I have been in some very high speed and damn scary rides, even took a couple spills, but that that is like 100x my skill level even when I was in peak performance.  I never really wanted to put more on the line than a broken bone, and now at 44, that is more than I want to put on the line.

    I think another one of the most dangerous roads on that show was in Colorado.  Some dirt road that they hold car races on.  I want to say Pikes Peak, but when I Google it, it's paved and the road I thought was dirt.  I see one of the pics at Wiki is dirt, so maybe it's mixed.

    Either way, the race is up the 'hill'.

    I can tell you this, taking an RV through the BearTooth Pass when it's raining has been my closest touch with sick winding roads.  5mph seemed too damn fast at times.

    Parent

    Is Pike's Peak paved all the way now? (none / 0) (#189)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 03:08:21 PM EST
    the last time I drove it, it was not, and they indeed did have races there. Really scary in places even crawling along at 10 mph! can't imagine racing it...but people did!

    Parent
    Shoul;d have read the article first (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 03:12:48 PM EST
    Pikes Peak highway is fully paved only since 2011. It is really a spectacular drive or ride. It is different from other mountains like Mt Evans in that Pike's Peak is not right near any other mountains near its height, so the drop-offs are a lot 'droppier', and the views of the plains on one side and mountains on the other are amazing. 'America the Beautiful' was written there for a reason.

    Parent
    Ha Ha (none / 0) (#145)
    by desertswine on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:09:50 PM EST
    They plan to charge admission for the thrill of plummeting to your death!

    Parent
    I think you can plummet (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:25:00 AM EST
    to your death from the one in China for free.

    Parent
    Or you can come instead to Oahu, ... (none / 0) (#191)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 03:56:22 PM EST
    ... and plummet headlong from our own valley's 2,500-ft. ridgeline. But seriously, HFD's Rescue units are constantly plucking stranded hikers off our island's mountainsides, including from our own valley walls last Saturday night.

    Like most everywhere else around the world, Mother Nature in the islands may be very inviting at initial glance, but she can be just as equally unforgiving to foolish people who disrespect her with their ignorance. What people need to realize is that whenever they find themselves in trouble up there on the ridges and call for help, these firefighters often have to risk their own lives to in order to assist them.

    Three of the saddest letters I ever had to write as a congressional staffer were to the families of HFD rescue personnel who were killed in the summer of 1996, during a search-rescue operation in the Koolau mountains overlooking windward Oahu. The helicopter in which they were being ferried got caught in a serious wind shear downdraft, and was slammed into a cliffside overlooking Kahana Valley. There were no survivors.

    And to this day, no one knows whatever happened to the young man those firefighters were initially looking for, a 20-year-old exchange student at Hawaii Pacific University who went up into the mountains all by himself. Eventually, someday, his remains will likely be found by other hikers or some local pig hunters, and his relatives back home will be duly notified of the discovery, two-plus decades after the fact.

    Oahu's mountains have a number of similar secrets waiting to be uncovered. Occasionally, plane wrecks dating back to the Second World War are turning up, sometimes with the pilot's remains still inside.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Nice... (none / 0) (#166)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 08:45:23 AM EST
    ...I am hiker and that look like a lot of fun.  You are extremely lucky to call that place home.  

    Here in Houston my training for yellowstone amounted to going to a park and running up and down a 'hill' that was about 40 feet tall.  It is a 40 min drive.  The city, formally under the sea, is flat as a board.

    And the Star Trek funny, was well, funny.

    Parent

    Then you'd like it out here. (none / 0) (#192)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 04:05:28 PM EST
    Hawaii has some of the prettiest and most challenging hiking trails in the world. It's a lot of work sometimes to reach the ridgeline or mountaintop, but when you do, a gorgeous view often awaits you if you're not shrouded by clouds.

    Best hike I ever took in the islands was a three-day jaunt across the crater floor of Haleakala, over on Maui. It's not a treacherous hike by any means like some of our Oahu trails, but it will still tax your stamina because you start at 10,000 feet elevation.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Our So Korean Ambassador attacked (none / 0) (#141)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 06:36:25 PM EST
    Did you see the pictures of him after he was attacked by a man with a razor? He had cuts on his head but it looked like his wrist got the worse of it. He is ok but still, it is unnerving that is happened. And he is very popular over there. Now who is going to get the blame on this one.

    Seems to have been (none / 0) (#146)
    by desertswine on Wed Mar 04, 2015 at 09:19:05 PM EST
    a 55yr old man, some sort of Korean nationalist.

    Parent
    80 in Houston Yesterday... (none / 0) (#173)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:32:53 AM EST
    ...35 and raining this morning.

    Not good for someone struggling with a cold !!

    Dog weather (none / 0) (#174)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 09:49:07 AM EST
    i always record this early morning weather.  I like the Beagle assistant. Griffy.  He always helps.  The link is to the weather page.  The forcast I'm referring to is over in the right column quite small.  He mentions West Plains as getting the most snow .  That is the town where my sister is in the hospital.  About 20 miles north.  We are in the same bullseye.
    but after today it's all goon news.

    LINK

    Parent

    My GF is Either From There... (none / 0) (#181)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 01:07:06 PM EST
    ...or went to school there, either way her sister is still in Springfield. She also lived in Branson, and I can't remember which city, but she used to tell me that the hill people would come into the bank where she worked and they really freaked her out.

    I bet your sister runs across them working in a hospital.

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    Ha (none / 0) (#183)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 05, 2015 at 01:55:39 PM EST
    my sister is a patient in the hospital and we ARE the hill people.   Well not really probably.   Only certain family members.  But we definitely know the hill people.  They are mostly not so bad.
    Pfffft
    Who am I kidding.  They scare me sometimes.

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    Wednesday Open Thread | 195 comments (195 topical)