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    Congratulations to the U,S Women's Soccer (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by caseyOR on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 09:05:40 PM EST
    team on their 1-0 win over Nigeria in tonight's World Cup game. This win means the U.S team takes first place in their first round group, The Group of Death.To get to this point the U.S. beat Australia and tied Sweden, in addition to winning over Nigeria tonight.

    The U.S. now advances to the group of 16. Their next game will be on Monday.

    The U.S women came into this year's World Cup ranked second behind the Germans. We have not won a World Cup since 1999. We have a very good chance to win this year, which may be 35 year old Abby Wambach's final World Cup.

    GO, USA!!!

    Forget bribery... (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:01:01 AM EST
    the real FIFA scandal is making the women play a World Cup on artificial turf.  It's a bloody disgrace, literally.

    Hopefully the sub-standard surfaces won't stop our ladies from lifting the cup.  With Megan Rapinoe on our side, I love our chances...did you see that 50 yard dribble-dash and score against Australia?  She's f8ckin' phenomenal.

    Parent

    Rapinoe is amazing. (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:18:23 AM EST
    I watched Megan and her twin sister play for the University of Portland. They were both very good. Megan has just gotten so much better.

    Also, great defensive work by Julie Johnston and Becky Sauerbrunn and Hope Solo.

    I loved seeing Alex Morgan back in the starting line-up last night and Abby Wambach's score, which I think came off her shin.

    Making the women play on artificial turf is practically criminal, and something that I very much doubt would ever be done to the men.

    Parent

    And a great American ambassador... (none / 0) (#67)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:13:58 AM EST
    the more I read about Megan, the more I admire her beyond her athletic excellence...here's a heartwarming piece about the joy she is bringing to her biggest fan in a cold dark place.

    Parent
    Abby! (none / 0) (#65)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:38:36 AM EST
    Who rather than skin her face on the artificial turf, decided to use a leg rather than her head.

    Parent
    That exclamation point looks much (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:53:31 AM EST
    more appropriate after Abby than it ever will after Jeb.

    Parent
    Denby Fawcett, a former war correspondent ... (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 11:21:33 PM EST
    ... for the Honolulu Advertiser who covered the Vietnam conflict for that paper in 1966-67, recently visited The Newseum in Washington D.C., to see its new exhibit, "Reporting Vietnam," and was surprised to see the question posed, "Did the press lose the war?" Her answer is a very emphatic "No!":

    "Of course, the press did not lose the war. Truth lost the Vietnam War, not the news media. It was an unwinnable war. [...] The war was brought to an end on the battlefield, but support for the effort had died at home years earlier, killed by the collective dismay over the returning coffins; 58,151 American dead. Sorrow over the plight of Vietnamese civilians caught in the middle. The waste. And the draft, when people's neighbors started getting killed. A weary American public was fed up with the war's escalating cost, its length, Washington's insulting public relations campaigns in the face of continuing defeats. The myths. The lies."

    Worth a read, because it was written by someone who was there. (Disclosure: Ms. Fawcett and her husband, former CBS News Vietnam correspondent and KGMB News anchor Bob Jones, are friends of ours.)

    Aloha.


    That is a Never Ending Republican Theme... (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:19:11 AM EST
    ...in which the messenger is the villain, not the actual folks making the decisions so long as they are Republicans.

    "If only people didn't know about it, they wouldn't care about it."

    Parent

    Darrell Issa gets escorted out (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:39:10 AM EST
    of a closed-door hearing on Benghazi.

    Or should I say, Benghazi!!!

    Former House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) tried to crash former Hillary Clinton adviser Sidney Blumenthal's deposition before the House Select Committee on Benghazi on Tuesday.

    Issa marched into the closed-door deposition and remained inside for about a minute before he was escorted out by the panel's chairman, Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-S.C.).

    The pair briefly exchanged hushed words in a nearby hallway before Issa stormed off, throwing an empty soda can into a nearby trash bin.

    No fan of Trey Gowdy, trust me, just chuckling over that colossal d-bag Issa getting shown the door.

    Why is it necessary (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:32:15 AM EST
    to put silliness into journalism:

    "before Issa stormed off, throwing an empty soda can into a nearby trash bin."

    If he threw it at somebody. If he threw it at a window. Those are reasonable things to add to the story. Throwing an empty soda can into a trash bin? Not newsworthy.

    Hell, in the video he doesn't even storm off. He just walks away and the can is still in his hand. Journalism needs to return to "just the facts".

    Parent

    But was it... (5.00 / 2) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:36:47 AM EST
    a recycling bin or a regular trash can?  Inquiring minds wanna know! As does the Pope! ;)

    Parent
    Since when has modern journalism ... (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:27:37 PM EST
    ... ever confined itself to "just the facts"?

    But seriously though, if they're going to make stuff up extraneously to add some color and create a sense of drama, why not just go whole hog and really make it entertaining? Were I that reporter, I'd have written the following:

    "... before Issa, his face reddened and contorted in a barely contained rage at the purposeful slight, stormed off furiously down the hall, hurling an empty soda can into a nearby trash bin with such force that it quickly toppled over, the noisy din echoing in either direction as the unindicted insurance fraudster-turned-congressman suddenly stopped, crumpled to the dulled linoleum floor in a haphazard heap, curled into a fetal position and began to sob uncontrollably.

    "Issa's clearly discernible and frankly embarrassing cries of "Mommy! Make them stop!" soon attracted the attention of nearby congressional staff and random passers-by, who quickly gathered around the prone and pitiful figure in a semi-circle with hands on hips and looks of irritation and disgust, prompting an elderly but obviously still-vigorous woman to start beating the helpless drama queen with surprisingly powerful swings of her heavy handbag, as the still-growing audience broke into caustic laughter and rapturous applause, mocking the San Diego Republican mercilessly with sarcastic chants of 'Benghazi! Benghazi!' while Capitol security looked the other way with wry smiles and approving nods."

    There, that's much better. ;-D

    Parent

    No doubt, (none / 0) (#107)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:09:21 PM EST
    Edward R. Murrow has duly noted your concern and is rolling over in his grave.   ;-)
    Just teasing.  I agree with you.  Too much fluff, too much extraneous BS.

    Parent
    Speaking of Edward R. Murrow, (none / 0) (#162)
    by fishcamp on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:39:44 PM EST
    WWll, and spies, I'm just finishing a book that I didn't think would turn out to be very good, but it is terrific. "The Postmistress " by Sarah Blake

    Parent
    Anyone Else... (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:48:49 PM EST
    ...find republicans insisting that a white woman stole a job from a black person at the NAACP downright hilarious ?

    I also find it rather extraordinary that they seem to be the only ones that care about the NAACP hiring someone who isn't black by birth.

    I am going to savor it because it's not everyday republicans argue that white folks stole black jobs.

    Particularly (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:50:07 PM EST
    as her position was unpaid

    Parent
    All the backlash I've seen against her... (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by unitron on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 04:33:16 AM EST
    ...has come from black women.

    The jokes are more widely sourced.

    Parent

    SCOTUSBLOG (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:46:15 AM EST
    is already live blogging.   Decisions in 15 minutes or so I guess.

    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 09:21:23 AM EST
    Thomas sides with the liberal wing in the Walker v. Sons of Confederate Veterans' case holding that Texas' specialty license plate constitutes government speech, thus Texas is entitled to refuse to issue plates with the proposed design by the SoCV.

    Headlines, Are They Serious ? (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 09:37:51 AM EST
    The Today Show:  Charleston Church Massacre

    I guess 'shooting' just wasn't macabre enough for the networks as I see they are all adopting the new catch phrase.

    And whatever we do, let's not talk about the thing that killed people, let's talk about the lunatic who managed to get one of those things we aren't going to talk about, again.

    Sorry Howdy I am not getting sucked in (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 02:02:32 PM EST
    to watching Tyrant again. No time for hate-watching! I will read previously.tv if they make fun of it though.

    Not a sports guy (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 03:39:26 PM EST
    but I feel comfortably within my knowledge base in observing that LeBron James junk was a little disappointing.

    FINAL: Golden State 105, Cleveland 97. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 11:01:55 PM EST
    Congratulations to the Warriors, 2015 NBA champions, who just clinched their first title in 40 years. People will be dancing tonight in the streets of Oakland, CA -- and hopefully, not doing much else.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Continung with the sports news (none / 0) (#2)
    by CoralGables on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 03:43:20 PM EST
    The St Louis Cardinals are under investigation by the FBI for hacking into the Houston Astros data system. The Cards are not denying it happened.

    Parent
    Furthermore, the Padres terminated (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:01:52 PM EST
    manager Bud Black b/4 the All-Star break!  And b/4 the Marlins arrive in late July.

    Parent
    That's too bad. (none / 0) (#53)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 10:51:57 PM EST
    Bud Black is a good manager. The Padres would've been better served by terminating their front office.

    Parent
    The Cards? Hackers? (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:40:57 AM EST
    I don't believe it...they're notoriously patient at the plate.  

    Nice try FBI, but there's no helping the Nationals this year.  The Mets with their Triple-A lineup are still game and a half up in the East...worry about us, not the Cards;)

    Parent

    Funny... (none / 0) (#70)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:31:13 AM EST
    ...considering the Astros haven't been in the same division/league as the Cardinals for three years.

    This must be old stuff as the the Astros haven't exactly been competitive for a long time, sans this years anomaly.

    To me if you are going to cheat you might want to hack teams you actually play or teams that are doing well.

    It happened, I think what they are trying to figure out is how far it went up.  Was it some statistician or was the management in on it.  From what I read they used an old coach account to get access.

    Parent

    Speculation is... (none / 0) (#72)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:44:28 AM EST
    the hack might be a personal vendetta thing as opposed to a competitive advantage thing...Astros GM used to work for the Cards.

    Parent
    It may have been partly that, (none / 0) (#116)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:43:52 PM EST
    It also may have been a concern that Luhnow had taken some Cardinal proprietary information and used it with the Astros, and it may have been, because Luhnow is a big saber metrics guy and considered very good at picking out prospective players, that the Cards wanted to know which prospective players he was interested in.
    Or all three, and maybe other stuff we don't know about yet.
    I don't have a link to the above speculations, because Son Zorba mentioned them to me, based on his reading of various sports news sites, and knowing that I'm a lifelong Cardinals fan.  And there's no link yet to "SonZorba.com."  
    Needless to say, I am very disappointed in the Cardinals.  There is no joy in Mudville.   :-(

    Parent
    Don't be too hard... (none / 0) (#119)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:18:27 PM EST
    on your team...stealing signs is as old as baseball, think of this as a 21st Century equivalent.  No biggie to anybody but the FBI and maybe the Astros imo.

    Parent
    I agree, except that the (none / 0) (#132)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:58:06 PM EST
    FBI is involved, and this is considered a federal crime.  Which means someone or ones may go down, hard.
    Of course, one could also think that the FBI would have bigger fish to fry.  Oh, say, like the Wall Street banksters who commit fraud and yet mostly seem to get away with it.
    Ah, well.  Our tax dollars at work.  I guess.

    Parent
    Sad but true... (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 05:33:50 PM EST
    If it was STL Bank instead of STL Ball, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    Between this and FIFA, it appears the sports division over at the Hoover building are the only ones workin'...financial crimes division still on permanent vacation;)

    Parent

    Perhaps.. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 05:58:10 PM EST
    But as the late journalist Heywood Broun once observed, "Sports do not build character; they reveal it."

    Those who would either cheat or condone cheating are not only contemptuous of the established rules of fair play, they also mock everyone who seeks to play by those rules.

    If you're compelled to cheat -- [cough]Bill Belichick[/cough] -- just to win a friggin' game, in what other aspects of your life are you willing to cut similar corners in order to gain what you believe to be a competitive advantage?

    That said, I'll withhold judgment about the Cardinals until the federal investigation is complete and we know more about what actually happened here. I'm a lifelong Dodger fan, but I've always respected the St. Louis Cardinals as a first-class and smart organization, and I have a hard time believing that they'd actually get caught up in something this stupid.

    On the other hand, there are also plenty of people whom I had presumed were smart, who then proceeded to surprise me as otherwise.

    Aloha.

    oha.

    Parent

    Look at that (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:46:43 PM EST
    I started a sports sub thread!

    Parent
    In keeping with your sports (none / 0) (#172)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:58:22 PM EST
    Former Washington Redskin star Clinton Portis appears to be in a bit of financial trouble. An easy bet may be that it's gambling related.

    He has failed to pay an estimated $450,000 in federal income taxes. He also owes $287,178.56 to the MGM Grand Hotel in Las Vegas.

    No one ever said playing in the NFL makes you smart.

    Parent

    Yes, I agree, Donald (none / 0) (#155)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:57:52 PM EST
    If this proves out, it certainly does reveal character, or really, lack thereof.  Sports have way too long been held up as some kind of idealistic, character-building enterprise, but it is far too often not the case, as Broun said.
    And I would also say that Stan Musial must be rolling over in his grave.  Not that I am assuming that the Cards are totally guilty (although it certainly doesn't look good), but that Stan the Man would have been devastated by the allegations and the strong possibility that the Cards did something so wrong.
    (And yes, Stan Musial is to this day revered in St. Louis as not only a great player, but a really stand-up guy.)

    Parent
    Speaking as someone who's been involved ... (none / 0) (#165)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:07:46 PM EST
    ... in organized sports for most of his life, I think that with the right coaches and management who have an ethical foundation, sports can indeed be ennobling particularly for young people, because it's an activity -- admittedly, not the only one -- where they can really grasp and learn the concepts of dedication, camaraderie, teamwork and fair play.

    Unfortunately, I've also seen and experienced coaches whose win-at-all-costs attitudes send the exact wrong message to their young charges, coming as it does at a stage in their lives when they are most impressionable. To be truly successful in sports, one needs to learn how to both win gracefully and lose with dignity. Instead, we're seeing ever-increasing instances of appalling sportsmanship with taunting, trash-talking, bullying, attempts to injure opponents, &etc.

    On a tangentially related note, this past basketball season the University of Hawaii fired men's coach Gib Arnold nine days before the opening game, after school administrators discovered evidence of serious cheating and lying on his part, and then self-reported the violations to the NCAA.

    The evidence was pretty clear that academic transcripts had been doctored to allow several players to become eligible for admission, a HUGE no-no as far as the NCAA is concerned, and that department funds had been pocketed or diverted for personal purposes, rather than spent as duly authorized and expected.

    Now, I believe that UH initially treated him more than fairly, to the extent that they paid off the balance of his contract, which was several hundred thousand dollars, even though the men's basketball program now faces likely NCAA sanctions and possible probation because of his unscrupulous actions.

    But after Arnold repeatedly took to the local and national airwaves to call university administrators a bunch of losers and liars, and further would not cease and desist when asked, one week ago an exasperated UH administration filed a lawsuit against him for fraud and negligence.

    From the time he was first hired four years ago, I felt that Arnold embodied the very essence of a bad coach as I've described above, and I applaud UH for taking a stand on principle. I hope they clean his clock legally, and provide a positive outcome and message for the rest of college sports as a whole, which is that rules are not there to be simply ignored out of convenience, and they don't apply only to the other guys.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Pope Francis goes full frontal on climate change (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:06:22 PM EST
    Why The Pope's Stand On Climate Change Matters

    Living up to his name I would say

    For more than a year, Pope Francis and his close advisors have been preparing this document, called Laudato Si, or Praised Be. The text focuses on environmental stewardship and, in particular, the effects of climate change on human life. The themes are directly in keeping with the rest of his papacy: When he was elected to the office, he told journalists he took the name "Francis" in honor of St. Francis of Assisi, who stood for the poor and for peace, and was a "man who loved and cared for creation ... in this moment we don't have such a great relationship with the creator." The official copy of the encyclical doesn't come out until Thursday, but on Monday, the Italian magazine L'Espresso leaked an Italian version, which Church officials are calling a "draft."


    Can't find the exact quote (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:23:17 PM EST
    but he says something like "thousands of species have been lost and can no longer express the glory of God".

    Never heard bio diversity discussed like that, as EJ Dionne said, and being and atheist, shrug, but welcome to the party Francis.  We need your help.

    Parent

    For some years now, (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 05:02:22 PM EST
    the Church has been setting the stage for the full flowering of what Pope Francis is expected to say formally.  During the 1990s, the Roman Catholic Church--and Orthodox Churches and a number of mainstream Protestant churches began to emphasize humankind's obligation to protect the Earth, to militate against its desecration for profit.  Our Church spoke more and more of the responsibility to be Stewards of the goodness and gift of the Earth.

    Epiphany.  The move away from the subdue-&-dominate ("dominion") the Earth has been pronounced during the past few decades.  Sermons and hymns, and even Sunday bulletins, exhorted the pathway of Stewardship.  <As a one-time and long-time EPAer, I find it wondrous to see.  In fact, in the mid-1990s--after being asked to do a presentation about the newly observed connection between the environment and theology--I had the privilege of speaking with students at a local Jesuit college. Did I ever learn a lot ... and I always hope to keep learning about the beauty of the Earth.>

    It is both old and new at once.  "The lofty mountain grandeur" and "...see the stars and hear the rolling thunder" are not just phrases from the old hymnals, but that feeling and reality will be enshrined in Pope Francis' new Encyclical.  The Pope will shepherd the Church from the aspirational to the practical recognition now of what is expected of its community to be good stewards.  That is the significant bold, practical move that he is making with the issuance of the Encyclical.  

    Parent

    The link above does a great job (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 05:04:59 PM EST
    of explaining how this is different and why it's so important

    Parent
    Yes, it is a good link. (none / 0) (#13)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 05:19:06 PM EST
    As an aside: Going back to the mid-1990s, EPA began to integrate aspects of "environmental justice" into its programs.  Focusing on EJ aspects arose from scientific data acquired in the US concerning levels of pollution and locales in which said pollution were pronounced.  Guess what?  Data established a strong link between industrial pollution and lower-income neighborhoods. Etc.

    In many ways that linkage is obvious; but, what is so powerful about the Pope's segue from science to religion and back is that the Encyclical will amount to and be the basis of formal Church teachings about humankind's responsibility to exercise environmental stewardship.

    Thank you, Howdy.  As you see, this is big.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:28:56 PM EST
    if you believe God created all of them then it kinds of alters the way you look at animals or even than animals are a gift from God that we have snubbed our noses at.

    Parent
    Not to Point Out the Obvious... (none / 0) (#74)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:56:04 AM EST
    ...but something like 99% of species that ever populated the Earth are gone and most are pre-human.  I think one could easily argue that god isn't real worried about species going extinct, including the chosen ones.

    I applaud the Pope for making the effort, but the idea that the Earth is no longer a gift from god for us to do with as we please is going to take one hell of a sales pitch.  Certainly the godly ones in the south aren't going to buy into it, which coincidentally probably carry more weigh than any other group in the world as far a regulation goes.  Most won't even buy into that we are doing an sort of harm to the planet, so the idea that we need to change seems pretty far fetched to me.

    Republican view of the Pope:

    Congressional Republicans are upset with Pope Francis for making political statements on issues like income inequality, climate change, and the Israel-Palestine conflict. GOP leaders in Congress are dismayed that the pope is articulating non-conservative stances on a wide range of issues. They believe the pope should keep his nose out of politics unless it is to reinforce the Catholic Church's support for right-wing positions like opposing abortion and same-sex marriage.
    LINK

    Parent
    True of course (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:36:48 AM EST
    but I think the Popes voice is an important one.   And I was particularly struck by the bio diversity part.   This needs to be reframed.  This will help.  IMO.

    Parent
    You realize, Cap'n, that ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:58:40 PM EST
    ... these posts -- I similarly posted one about the same subject below -- are a standing invitation to blog-clog, which will likely be accepted by a climate-change denier we both know. Best that we gird our loins for another deluge of factual assumptions not in evidence.
    ;-D

    Parent
    I now have stored (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 05:01:46 PM EST
    what will be my standard response to all future such.

    It has to do with McCarthy.

    Parent

    Yeah, I took note of that remark, too. (none / 0) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 08:29:27 PM EST
    Out of the mouths of ideologues ...

    Parent
    He can only blog clog (none / 0) (#78)
    by sj on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:24:40 AM EST
    if people repeatedly respond to his nonsense.

    Parent
    And yet (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:33:59 AM EST
    they continue to get sucked into the foolishness.

    Parent
    At least I succeeded (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:37:29 AM EST
    in changing the subject!

    Parent
    It's hard to let stand, unchallenged, (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:49:15 AM EST
    the kinds of comments that are the equivalent of asserting that the earth is flat.

    It seems that no matter the subject, the PIQ (poster in question) always manages to bring some amount of ridiculousness to the table ("McCarthy was right").  Is it attention-seeking? Is it to push people's buttons?  I don't know, but I'm pretty sure there's way more of that going on than any genuine desire to engage in dialogue.

    Here's the thing: as long as his trollish, blog-clogging behavior is tolerated, the more of that we will see, and the harder it will be to discuss anything.  There are many occasions when I see that the PIQ is present that I just click away, rather than be tempted to feed the narcissistic behavior he craves.

    Parent

    My intent is to educate (2.00 / 2) (#144)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:21:48 PM EST
    And when you want to talk about blog clogging explain how many times you have been unable to post a comment.

    Anne, what you want to do is stifle speech, even though you claim to support.

    BTW - On a recent open thread CaptainHowdy posted 48 comments out of around 209.

    No one complained.

    Parent

    If your intent is to educate, it's not (5.00 / 3) (#159)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:27:18 PM EST
    going too well, is it?  

    How many times have I been unable to post a comment?  I haven't kept track, but I can tell you that with a 200 comment limit, threads fill up fast when you've got your jaws locked on climate change, or the war in Iraq, or Vietnam - to name a few.  And it seems like the majority of what people are responding to you with is factual refutation of whatever your Home-Schooling-With-Jim subject of the moment is.

    It's not so much that I want to stifle your speech, jim, it's that you are like the ants at a picnic that keep one from enjoying the company and the conversation.  I don't agree with 99% of what you believe, and the only interest I have in engaging you is to set the record straight on the nonsense you post.  I would venture to guess that that's what most people are doing - just trying to keep TL from becoming TR.

    People don't complain about Howdy because he's like a TL news feed, keeping us all current on what's going on, he's pleasant and engaging about it and he's not looking to p!ss people off, which seems to be one of your goals.

    Parent

    You are very kind (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:47:59 PM EST
    but I talk to much.  At least I know it.

    I blame the ADHD

    Parent

    So your complaint is that (1.00 / 1) (#191)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 07:52:11 AM EST
    that when you finally decide that you want to say something....gasp..... the party is over.

    My, my, I guess we....hint... Howdy and Mordiggian...that means you too, must wait for Anne to let us know she is done and we can talk.

    Thanks for proving that you believe in free speech only for those you agree with.

    Parent

    I'll be glad to pledge not to (none / 0) (#195)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:05:49 AM EST
    blog-clog in the future if you'll do the same, Jim.i've only left 8 comments in this thread to your 15, so it would seem that her perception, at least on this thread, is correct.

    Tell us, what's it like to be in the center and watch the Universe spin around you?

    Parent

    Try some math (1.00 / 1) (#196)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:08:44 AM EST
    Write something. Count that as 1.

    Have 7 people respond.

    You respond to them.

    Add 1 + 7.

    And the result is???

    Parent

    Another day (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:10:01 AM EST
    at the office.

    Parent
    Sorry, you're make idiotic (none / 0) (#199)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:15:48 AM EST
    statements of fact, and then, you want to change the math when accused of blog-clogging and the numbers aren't in your favor.

    Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to start telling the truth around here, as you promised in the last open thread.

    Parent

    Whatever Howdy is (1.00 / 1) (#193)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 07:55:09 AM EST
    has nothing to do with your ongoing complaint that you want to control content and amount.

    Admit it. What you want is an echo chamber not a discussion.

    Parent

    You've educated us (none / 0) (#147)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:39:17 PM EST
    in a wide variety of nonsense that you've gotten from Fox Noise.

    Thanks for wAt hing so the rest of us don't have two.

    Parent

    In our last get back (none / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:21:31 PM EST
    the discussion was joined, by you, Howdy, FlJoe, Donald, Anne, Yman, McBain, RePack Rider, ragebot, jondee, Zorba, desertswine, scribe and Mr. Natural.

    If I failed to educate at least we all had an opportunity to express our opinion.

    You know, in another post Jeralyn notes that TalkLeft has been around 13 years, I started commenting March 2003. It was the height of the Iraq invasion run up and we had some wonderful discussions, arguments and yes, some shouting matches.

    But no one ever tried to shut anyone else up.

    Parent

    Well, aren't you special? (5.00 / 4) (#158)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:00:47 PM EST
    Bless your heart.

    Parent
    Isn't it odd (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by sj on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:43:52 PM EST
    and, oh so revealing, that you knew, jim, exactly who was expected to blog clog.

    Parent
    No SJ (none / 0) (#189)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 07:45:29 AM EST
    After seeing it used as an attack method it isn't odd at all.

    Parent
    What attack method? (none / 0) (#190)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 07:50:12 AM EST
    You post stupid, easily disproved assertions, and get all het up when your blatherings aren't taken seriously around here by various people.  Boo-hoo!

    Grow up, Jim.

    Parent

    Thanks for the demo. (none / 0) (#192)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 07:52:55 AM EST
    You post McCarthy (none / 0) (#194)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:00:50 AM EST
    was correct about Communists in the government, based on the Venona intercepts of which he had no knowledge.

    It's also a fact that he also never exposed one, let's repeat that folks, ONE spy in the U.S. Government working for the Commies.

    It is equally true he ruined many liives with his baseless accusation of communist sympathies towards people where never members of the Communist party in the first place.

    Glad to clear that up for you.  Now grow up and act like an adult instead of a spoiled brat, and maybe you'll get the respect you crave for posting about 'the truth' here.

    Parent

    Who has tried to shut you (none / 0) (#168)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:38:03 PM EST
    up here or there or anywhere on TL.

    Oh, and you stated in the last thread that you were going to treat us to the truth.

    Well?

    Parent

    Jim's stuff just dangles there begging to be smacked, like a piñata or a slow pitch over home plate. But one swing should suffice; we really shouldn't be going back again and again. And in that regard, I'm as guilty as anyone here.

    Parent
    Who is we? (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:47:25 PM EST
    I've been ignoring the troll since the first day I started commenting here.  Its really not hard at all.

    Parent
    That's good. (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:33:41 PM EST
    Your admirable self-discipline serves to free up additional comment space and bandwidth for my own gratuitous retorts.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Here's another guy and another pope (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:01:00 PM EST
    Regarding "consensus" and science.  Here's a  quote from Galileo:

    "In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual



    Parent
    All you need to know (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:04:38 PM EST
    In case you don't know (2.00 / 2) (#113)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 14, 2015 at 09:18:35 PM EST
    McCarthy was right. But his delivery was terrible.

    Btw
    As far as your clueless nonsense about Rachel Dolezal doing what she did to "get a job", the job she had was an unpaid position.

    So there is that.

    Parent

    Sigh... (2.00 / 2) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:36:09 PM EST
    Rachael Dolezal wanted the "job." It offered many things that she needed. We could discuss for days why she invented a fake black father, etc., etc.

    But no matter what she wanted she wasn't black. She will never be black. And there is no such thing as "trans black."

    And I again note. McCarthy was right. Read "Veona Decoding Soviet Espionage in America." It has all the details provided by information from the NSA and the KGB.

    But you won't because you can't stand the strain of having your world challenged.

    And I again note. McCarthy had what we now call, "optics." He had very poor optics. He was unlovable and his comments made things uncomfortable for many people. But he was right. There were communist spies within in the government.

    Parent

    No doubt there were Communist spies (5.00 / 7) (#36)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:47:29 PM EST
    within the government in the early- and mid-1950s. Nevertheless, most of McCarthy's accusations were false, and recklessly so. Including the one against my father. The fact that there are actual murders does not justify all the wrongful convictions. Not a good argument, Jim.

    Parent
    Curious (none / 0) (#120)
    by Reconstructionist on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:26:52 PM EST
      Who was your father and what happened?

    Parent
    No comment, except (none / 0) (#126)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:04:21 PM EST
    Someone he knew persuaded some congressional staffer they had him mixed up with someone else with a similar name. Which might have been true. He was neither a Communist nor a spy, to the best of my knowledge.

    Parent
    Peter, have you read the book?? (none / 0) (#148)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:44:05 PM EST
    And I note that you use the "most of" qualifier.

    And I have stated that McCarthy was not a wonderful person nor skilled in public relations.

    But, until he came forward very little had been done.

    One of the things I took away from the book was that his opponents hated him because he was calling out people who had gone to the right schools, went to the right parties, had the right friends... IOW they couldn't have done what they were accused of... Yet they had.

    And it is there in the book. To repeat, very dry, very hard reading, lots of references and no politics.

    The best comparison I can make re McCarthy is... Do I want someone I'd like to have a beer with? Or do I want someone who calls out the government for its failures??

    Parent

    The book does NOT vindicate MNcArthy (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:57:43 PM EST
    In fact, Harvey Klehr, the very author of the book says so:

    [V]irtually none of the people that McCarthy claimed or alleged were Soviet agents turn up in Venona. He did identify a few small fry who we now know were spies but only a few. And there is little evidence that those he fingered were among the unidentified spies of Venona. Many of his claims were wildly inaccurate; his charges filled with errors of fact, misjudgments of organizations and innuendoes disguised as evidence. He failed to recognize or understand the differences among genuine liberals, fellow-traveling liberals, Communist dupes, Communists and spies -- distinctions that were important to make. The new information from Russian and American archives does not vindicate McCarthy. He remains a demagogue, whose wild charges actually made the fight against Communist subversion more difficult.

    Anything else you need help with, Jim?

    Parent

    He could be describing jim.. (5.00 / 2) (#154)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:22:09 PM EST
    especially this, many times a day:

    Many of his claims were wildly inaccurate; his charges filled with errors of fact, misjudgments of organizations and innuendoes disguised as evidence.


    Parent
    Well, there you go, Anne (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by sj on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:51:42 PM EST
    I couldn't figure out why anyone would admire McCarthy when history has clearly shown that he was nothing but a destructive force of malice, ignorance and fear. This is pretty much universally known.

    But that misplaced admiration makes sense when one views McCarthy as a reflection of you-know-who.

    Parent

    Why do you make things up I never said?? (none / 0) (#152)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:03:33 PM EST
    What I have said is:

    1. McCarthy said there were communist spies in the US government.

    2. The book proves there were.

    You can parse all you want but McCarthy was right.

    Parent
    Name one Communist spy (none / 0) (#170)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:39:57 PM EST
    McCarthy exposed, Jim.


    Parent
    McCarthy never found a single (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:48:24 PM EST
    Communist working in the government, and there is no indication that he had any knowledge of the Venona intercepts

    (Protip:Spellcheck is your friend, and is available in the SeaMonkey browser).

    For much of its history, knowledge of Venona was restricted even from the highest levels of government. Senior army officers, in consultation with the FBI and CIA, made the decision to restrict knowledge of Venona within the government (even the CIA was not made an active partner until 1952). Army Chief of Staff Omar Bradley, concerned about the White House's history of leaking sensitive information, decided to deny President Truman direct knowledge of the project. The president received the substance of the material only through FBI, Justice Department, and CIA reports on counterintelligence and intelligence matters. He was not told the material came from decoded Soviet ciphers. To some degree this secrecy was counter-productive; Truman was distrustful of FBI head J. Edgar Hoover and suspected the reports were exaggerated for political purposes.


    McCarthyism

    During the McCarthy era, thousands of Americans were accused of being communists or communist sympathizers and became the subject of aggressive investigations and questioning before government or private-industry panels, committees and agencies. The primary targets of such suspicions were government employees, those in the entertainment industry, educators and union activists. Suspicions were often given credence despite inconclusive or questionable evidence, and the level of threat posed by a person's real or supposed leftist associations or beliefs was often greatly exaggerated. Many people suffered loss of employment and/or destruction of their careers; some even suffered imprisonment. Most of these punishments came about through trial verdicts later overturned,[2] laws that were later declared unconstitutional,[3] dismissals for reasons later declared illegal[4] or actionable,[5] or extra-legal procedures that would come into general disrepute.

    .................................

    McCarthyism also attracts controversy purely as a historical issue. Through declassified documents from Soviet archives and Venona project decryptions of coded Soviet messages, it has become known that the Soviet Union engaged in substantial espionage activities in the United States during the 1940s. It is also known that the Communist Party USA was substantially funded and its policies controlled by the Soviet Union, and there are accusations that CPUSA members were often recruited as spies.[128] In the view of some contemporary commentators, these revelations stand as at least a partial vindication of McCarthyism.[129] Some feel that there was a genuinely dangerous subversive element in the United States, and that this danger justified extreme measures.[127] Others, while acknowledging that there were inexcusable excesses during McCarthyism, argue that some contemporary historians of McCarthyism underplay the depth of Soviet espionage in America[130] or the undemocratic nature of the CPUSA,[131] the latter concern being shared by some Trotskyites who felt that they, and anti-Stalin socialists in general, were persecuted by the CPUSA.[132] The opposing view holds that, recent revelations notwithstanding, by the time McCarthyism began in the late 1940s, the CPUSA was an ineffectual fringe group, and the damage done to U.S. interests by Soviet spies after World War II was minimal.[133] Historian Ellen Schrecker, herself criticised for pro-Stalinist leanings,[134] has written, "in this country, McCarthyism did more damage to the constitution than the American Communist Party ever did."[135]

    Your conflation of facts would do credit to a 9/11 Truther.

    Parent

    Of course McCarthy didn't know about (2.00 / 1) (#150)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:58:12 PM EST
    Veona. That was a secret program that the NSA had developed that let them read the Soviet's diplomatic code between the US and Moscow.

    But there were spies. That, no matter what the pro Soviet water carriers say, is what McCarthy said and the book proves him right.

    'Nuff said.

    Parent

    McCarthy said much more ... (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:38:10 PM EST
    ... than "there were spies".  he slandered and lied about hundreds of people and ruined many lives in the process.  His apologists - like him - are pathetic.

    Parent
    Siiiigggghhhh ... no (5.00 / 4) (#38)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:50:44 PM EST
    MCArthur did far MORE than simply claim their were spies in the government.  He falsely smeared many innocent people and ruined their lives, and the Venona Project did not prove that he was right.  In fact, the very author of the book you cite ridiculed your silly claim:

    [V]irtually none of the people that McCarthy claimed or alleged were Soviet agents turn up in Venona. He did identify a few small fry who we now know were spies but only a few. And there is little evidence that those he fingered were among the unidentified spies of Venona. Many of his claims were wildly inaccurate; his charges filled with errors of fact, misjudgments of organizations and innuendoes disguised as evidence. He failed to recognize or understand the differences among genuine liberals, fellow-traveling liberals, Communist dupes, Communists and spies -- distinctions that were important to make. The new information from Russian and American archives does not vindicate McCarthy. He remains a demagogue, whose wild charges actually made the fight against Communist subversion more difficult. Like Gresham's Law, McCarthy's allegations marginalized the accurate claims. Because his facts were so often wrong, real spies were able to hide behind the cover of being one of his victims and even persuade well-meaning but naïve people that the who led anti-communist cause was based on inaccuracies and hysteria.

    That was easy,

    Parent

    Of course you try and dodge the fact (2.00 / 3) (#151)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:00:21 PM EST
    that McCarthy said there were spies and there were spies.

    He was right.

    You can parse but you can't escape.

    Parent

    Like you, McCarthy lied (5.00 / 2) (#167)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:33:06 PM EST
    The fact that he might have been correct about a couple of spies does not excuse his (or your) lies/slander by the dozens/hundreds.

    No, McCarthy was not "right", any more than Faux News is "right" because they manage to indicate the correct time on their "news" set.

    Parent

    It was more than "poor optics," Jim. (5.00 / 4) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 10:43:03 PM EST
    And if Joe McCarthy was right about the fact that there were current or former members of the Communist Party in the federal government in the 1950s, it was not unlike how a dial watch with a dead battery can still read the correct time twice daily.

    Only 20 years earlier, in the midst of the Great Depression, the Communist Party had been the third largest political party in the United States, after the Democrats and Republicans. Therefore, ipretty much goes without saying that lots of Americans had been among its members.

    Sen. McCarthy was a serial liar and demagogue who had a very serious problem with alcoholism. (He was also very likely a deeply closeted homosexual who delighted in baiting and persecuting other gay men, but for purposes of this discussion, I won't go there.) In fact, it was his affinity for the bottle which likely led to the acute hepatitis which eventually killed him at age 48 in May 1957. Per the London newspaper News Chronicle (May 3, 1957):

    "Senator McCarthy died yesterday in Washington. America was the cleaner by his fall, and is cleaner by his death."

    Per author David Halberstrom, in The Fifties:

    "He instinctively knew how to brush aside the protests of his witnesses, how to humiliate vulnerable, scared people. In the end, he produced little beyond fear and headlines."

    Per biographer Paul Rovere, in Senator Joe McCarthy:

    "As for McCarthy's supporters, from the bat-haunted Minute Women of the U.S.A., to the Texas millionaires, to the China Lobby, to the 'hard' anti-Communist intelligentsia of New York, they sought him from the outmost fringes, where grievances and anxieties were the strongest and the least grounded in reason; where the passion for authoritarian leadership was greatest; where the will to hate and condemn and punish could most easily be transformed into political action."

    All that said, I'd offer that amongst both his most fervent admirers on the right and his most severe critics on the left, Sen. McCarthy's perceived impact and reputation is greatly outsized relative to his actual public record. For a little less than two years during 1953 - 1954, he served as chair of the Senate Permanent Subcommittee of Investigations, which had a rather narrow directive and mandate to investigate the prevalence of communism within in the federal government and amongst its employees.

    (In fact, I'd argue that the House Un-American Activities Committee actually did far more damage to people's reputations than Sen. McCarthy ever did, because it was in business far longer on Capitol Hill than was McCarthy himself, and its members could cast a much wider net.)

    Author / historian Arthur Herman -- who actually admires and defends Sen. McCarthy -- estimates that approximately 10,000 Americans lost their jobs in the 1950s due to past and / or present affiliations with the Community Party and its proxy organizations. Of that number, he further says that some 2,000 were federal government employees. And of that number, McCarthy was perhaps directly or indirectly responsible for 40 people losing their jobs.

    And of those 40, only one subject of McCarthy's investigations, Owen Lattimore, was later indicted on seven counts of perjury -- all of those charges were subsequently tossed out by Federal Judge Luther Youngdahl. One guy. That's all.

    That the now-declassified reports of the Verona Project (1943-1980) serve to confirm the extent of Soviet spying in America during that period really does nothing to vindicate Joe McCarthy and his egregious behavior. McCarthy and his subcommittee had absolutely nothing at all to do with the Verona Project, which was conducted first by the U.S. Army Signal Intelligence Service and later by the National Security Agency.

    While McCarthy was correct about Owen Lattimore's expressed sympathies for the Soviet Union, both he and his Senate ally Pat McCarran were very wrong to have publicly equated those statements with actual espionage, because Lattimore had never been a Soviet agent. Rather, he had been deliberately targeted and slandered by those two congressional charlatans, and his academic career in this country was effectively destroyed as a result.

    All Sen. McCarthy ever accomplished successfully was to court personal publicity, which he did in large part by leveling wild and unsubstantiated charges against both federal agencies and various individuals affiliated with those agencies. He was a petty, vainglorious and vindictive drunk whose baseless claims and personal behavior eventually embarrassed and alarmed his own Senate colleagues to the extent that they felt compelled to formally censure him in December 1954, a move which effectively ended his career and rightly discredited him in the eyes of most decent Americans.

    Under the Senates rules pertaining to the release of investigative records, in January 2003 the records of the closed executive sessions of McCarthy's Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations were made public, fifty years after those sessions were conducted. Upon that release, then-Subcommittee Chair Carl Levin (D-MI) and ranking member Susan Collins (R-ME) co-wrote the following about the late Wisconsin senator in their report's preface:

    "In 1948, the Senate established the Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations to continue the work of a special committee, first chaired by Missouri Senator Harry Truman, to investigate the national defense program during World War II. Over the next half century, the Subcommittee under our predecessor Chairmen, Senators John McClellan, Henry Jackson, Sam Nunn, William Roth, and John Glenn, conducted a broad array of hard-hitting investigations into allegations of corruption and malfeasance, leading repeatedly to the exposure of wrongdoing and to the reform of government programs.

    "The phase of the Subcommittee's history from 1953 to 1954, when it was chaired by Joseph McCarthy, however, is remembered differently. Senator McCarthy's zeal to uncover subversion and espionage led to disturbing excesses. His browbeating tactics destroyed careers of people who were not involved in the infiltration of our government. His freewheeling style caused both the Senate and the Subcommittee to revise the rules governing future investigations, and prompted the courts to act to protect the Constitutional rights of witnesses at Congressional hearings. Senator McCarthy's excesses culminated in the televised Army-McCarthy hearings of 1954, following which the Senate voted overwhelmingly for his censure. [...] These hearings are a part of our national past that we can neither afford to forget nor permit to reoccur." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    More - on the Hollywood Blacklists, (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:40:36 AM EST
    loyalty probes, Academic and Union Purges,  the legal establishment turned against itself...

    Heckuva hero, Jim.

    Parent

    Help me understand this (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:15:41 AM EST
    There were communist spies within in the government.

    As I understand it, "communism" is a political philosophy.  The First Amendment gives Americans the right to any political philosophy they care to support.

    Ergo, "communist spy" is analogous to "Republican spy," "Democratic spy" or "Libertarian spy."  IOW, it is a meaningless term suggesting that one's political philosophy should prevent service to one's country.

    BTW, WHAT THE HELL IS A "COMMUNIST" ANYWAY?  Why were we supposed to hate them in the 'sixties?

    Parent

    Some gasbag on Fox... (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:40:35 AM EST
    called the Pope a "Marxist" last night...I had to laugh, wasn't Jesus a pinko if there ever was one?  Not Marxist-Leninist pinko, but definitely a pinko hippie at least from all I've heard and read about the son of Joe the Carpenter and Mary of the Likely Story.

    Parent
    Why were we supposed to hate communists? (none / 0) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:15:30 AM EST
    Because they were dirty red scum, that's why.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Communist Spies (none / 0) (#97)
    by ragebot on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 12:33:29 PM EST
    may not be the best term.  If the truth be known there were US govt employees who were spies for the USSR in the sense that they were reporting information to the USSR govt.

    I have also have seen folks called Republican or Democratic spies if they were in a position where they could report information they gleaned from their access provided by their job to political operatives.

    The key determination of someone being a spy is if they use their position to provide information to parties hostile to their employer, something communists in the era in question were doing.  There were also lots of other folks spying for almost every other govt, political party, and many other factions.

    Parent

    Soviet spies? (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Repack Rider on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:43:14 PM EST
    If the truth be known there were US govt employees who were spies for the USSR in the sense that they were reporting information to the USSR govt.

    Aldrich Ames was the most successful Soviet spy in our history, directly responsible for the deaths of several agents.  He was not motivated by communism.  He was motivated by MONEY.  And he worked for the most anti-communist branch of the federal government, the FBI.

    Parent

    Right.. (5.00 / 3) (#125)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:04:19 PM EST
    because no one the left ever ever suspected, ever, that the Russians were spying on the U.S..

    Conservatives saying "McCarthy was right" is just code for justifying all the shameless, lurid accusations hurled by conservatives ever since; at everyone from the Freedom Riders to union members to feminists and environmentalists.

    Parent

    "They laughed at Columbus, they (none / 0) (#24)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:29:46 PM EST
    laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers.  But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."


    Parent
    Your silly analogy fails (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by Yman on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:10:22 PM EST
    Galileo was a scientist pointing out that conclusions should be based on science, rather than religion.  Climate deniers (who are often also "Creationists") argue to ignore the scientific data and studies from actual scientists in favor of silly, opinion pieces from wingnut blogs.  Galileo would side with the actual scientists.

    Parent
    If By 'Single Individual'... (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:09:11 AM EST
    ...you think Galileo meant the 90% of the scientific community, then your quote is spot on.

    To be lagging behind the Catholic Church on matters of science...

    Parent

    IT occurs to me that the Pope (none / 0) (#101)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:33:21 PM EST
    in Galileo's time was as much a scientist as the Pope is now.

    Both relied on the consensus of their "scientists..."

    lol

     

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 3) (#123)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:53:00 PM EST
    Obviously, (to most) a highly educated Pope in the 21st century would know much more about science than a Pope in the sixteenth century..

    Because scientific knowledge has progressed quite a bit (for non-conservatives) in the last few hundred years.

    lol

    Parent

    Look up the Vatican Observatory (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:19:43 PM EST
    As you may be in for a bit of a surprise:

    In the 18th century, the Papacy actively supported astronomy, establishing the Observatory of the Roman College in 1774. In 1789-1787, the Specola Vaticana in the Tower of the Winds within the Vatican was established under the direction of Msgr. Filippo Luigi Gilii (1756-1821). When Msgr. Gilii died, the Specola was closed down because it was inconvenient for students in the city because the dome of St. Peter's obstructed its view. Its instruments were transferred to the College Observatory. A third facility, the Observatory of the Capitol, was operated from 1827 to 1870.

    Also:

    [The Jesuits] contributed to the development of pendulum clocks, pantographs, barometers, reflecting telescopes and microscopes, to scientific fields as various as magnetism, optics and electricity. They observed, in some cases before anyone else, the colored bands on Jupiter's surface, the Andromeda nebula and Saturn's rings. They theorized about the circulation of the blood (independently of Harvey), the theoretical possibility of flight, the way the moon effected the tides, and the wave-like nature of light. Star maps of the southern hemisphere, symbolic logic, flood-control measures on the Po and Adige rivers, introducing plus and minus signs into Italian mathematics - all were typical Jesuit achievements, and scientists as influential as Fermat, Huygens, Leibniz and Newton were not alone in counting Jesuits among their most prized correspondents.[96]



    Parent
    This warmed-over "consensus" meme (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:28:14 PM EST
    is such a crock..The conservative consensus about the meaninglessness of scientific consensus has spread through the Right blogosphere like wild fire. Because they're all such cutting edge independent thinkers.

     

    Parent

    Speaking for me, (none / 0) (#131)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:54:05 PM EST
    this is the only "political" blog I frequent.

    What are some of the "Right blogosphere" you are referring to?

    Parent

    Uh, 18th???? Galileo (none / 0) (#139)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:17:26 PM EST
    Born: February 15, 1564, Pisa, Italy
    Died: January 8, 1642, Arcetri, Italy

    You're only off a 100...150 years.

    lol

    Parent

    Yeah, they wised up and (none / 0) (#141)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:35:56 PM EST
    decided that Galileo was onto something by the time the 18th Century rolled around.  

    How about that?

    No charge for the history lesson.  👽

    Parent

    It Occurs to Me... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 04:51:20 PM EST
    ...is code for what, you just made it up ?

    Please include a link of indicating that the Pope consulted scientists before condemning Galileo.  Saying it doesn't make it so, but it is fun to see your politics trump your religion.

    Parent

    Oh, really. (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:13:29 PM EST
    jimakaPPJ: "It occurs to me that the Pope in Galileo's time was as much a scientist as the Pope is now."

    FYI, Pope Francis has a master's degree in chemistry. Judging by the fact-free nonsense you post here on a regular basis, your own credentials are such that you have no business presuming His Holiness a scientific ignoramus.

    :-P

    Parent

    Gee, Donald, I wouldn't want to (2.00 / 3) (#140)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:26:11 PM EST
    insult a man who puts his drawers on the same way as  I.

    But I will give him credit. In one stroke he has formed a strong relationship with the Left, a group that normally touts atheism and rejects any church influence.

    Of course all popes have been politicians, One even invaded the Holy Land.

    Parent

    Oh, so now you're bashing the Pope. (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:16:35 PM EST
    Anne and MileHi, et al., are right. You are indeed nothing but a troll, and you SHOULD be ignored. Lesson learned.

    Adios, payaso.

    Parent

    A "man" (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:40:39 PM EST
    Bolded, no less.  Figured that out all by yourself, did ya, Jim?

    Heh.

    Parent

    Yes, but Jim (5.00 / 2) (#114)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:41:48 PM EST
    it seems to me you evoke the authority of other climate deniers at every turn..

    And also, the consensus of people who believed in Saddam's wmds.

    Doc, heal thy self.

    Parent

    You could (none / 0) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:40:07 PM EST
    also say that the humble reasoning of thousands of individuals trumps the authority of ideology.
     

    Parent
    Pope Francis' much-anticipated encyclical ... (none / 0) (#6)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:48:40 PM EST
    ... on the subject of climate change, "Laudato Sii" ("Be Praised"), which is officially scheduled for formal release this Thursday, was apparently leaked by someone inside The Vatican to the Italian magazine L'Espresso.

    As a result, the Holy See has revoked the press credentials of Sandro Magister, a conservative journalist at the magazine who also happens to be one of the Pope's most relentless critics, although Magister's editor has since claimed that it was his decision to publish the leaked draft, and not his employee's.

    Stay tuned.

    Beat you by 42 (none / 0) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:58:04 PM EST
    minutes that is.  The NPR piece I linked is very good.

    Parent
    I saw that. (none / 0) (#9)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 04:59:45 PM EST
    I had the page open and didn't update to see your earlier post.

    Parent
    Lapsus linguae? (none / 0) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 05:28:56 PM EST
    A recent TL discussion, initiated by Peter G, dealt with the proper spelling of Justice Ginsburg's name.  Justice Scalia could have benefited from that conversation writ large.

    Scalia, while listing dissenting justices in the immigration case,  Kerry v Din, referred to Justice Ginsburg as Justice Goldberg.  After a whisper in his ear by the Chief Justice, Scalia said what did I say?   Oh,  sorry Ruth.   (The same Ruth who is his long time colleague and friend).  

    Scalia may have been discombobulated in presenting what seemed a proxy rant against marriage equality in the Din case.  The controlling decision (Alito) denying a visa for the Taliban husband of Din, a US citizen, on the basis of terrorist affiliation was not to Scalia's liking. Rather, he tied the scope of marriage constitutional rights to "this nation's history and tradition." Din and her husband had no right to live together in this country since this would expand marriage rights beyond their historic bounds.

    I look forward to reading similar arguments in Scalia's dissent to the Court's opinion in Obergefell v Hodges.

    Chief Justice Roberts joined in Scalia's opinion (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:57:19 PM EST
    in the Din case. This suggests he will not vote for marriage equality, and if so, that there may not be a majority for the big win we are hoping for (although there may).  Nevertheless, even without a majority for full constitutional rights, it would be just like Roberts to lead a "compromise" majority for mandatory inter-state recognition of all lawful out-of-state marriages. If so, same-sex marriage will be legal in every state, even though same-sex weddings could not be celebrated in every state ... at least until this absurd and untenable situation leads the hold-out states to give up.

    Parent
    Legal ignorance (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 08:06:55 PM EST
    how did the advance of interracial marriage progress?  A similar way?

    I have to say personally that would still seem like a pretty major win to me.  There are so many states now no one will have to travel far.  Honestly it seem like such a slinder twig for the haters to cling to it almost seems like what would be the point.  It seems like it might just lead to more court drama.

    I still think the may just want to be rid of this subject once and for all and bite the bullet.  Especially considering the possible ACA consellation prize being discussed.

    Parent

    Anti-miscegenation laws were struck down (none / 0) (#41)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 08:18:54 PM EST
    on an equal-protection (racial equality) theory, not on a fundamental-right-to-marry-whomever-you-love theory.

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#42)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 08:23:44 PM EST
    i would think equal protection would be what they are arguing.  But clearly my understanding of the legal meaning of the terms is why we need you.

    I do remember reading that when they were struck down it was opposed by huge majorities of the population.  Even larger numbers than the ones supporting gay marriage.

    Parent

    That didn't come out right (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 08:43:33 PM EST
    obviously there are other reasons to "need" you being the smart and valuable contributor to this place that you are

    :)

    Parent

    Actually, I was wrong (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Peter G on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 10:03:38 PM EST
    About Loving v Virginia. The law was held unconstitutional in 1967 on both grounds - equal protection AND "due process" (arbitrary denial of a fundamental right). And I'm sure that both arguments are also in play in the SSM cases.

    Parent
    Agreed, (none / 0) (#82)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:36:32 AM EST
    based on the marriage equality hearings, it seemed that Chief Justice Roberts sided with Scalia and Alito. In a response to Mary Bonauto, attorney for the challengers, Roberts said you "are not seeking to join the institution, but to change what the institution is."  And, with respect to the interstate recognition (which was one of the questions the Court previously set forth for consideration), Roberts seemed to dismiss it, saying that one state could set policy for all 50 states.  

    Based on these considerations, Roberts' vote on Din (seemingly a proxy), and his tenor, my thinking, as expressed below, is that we can hope for Justice Kennedy and a 5/4 decision.  

    Parent

    Thing is (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 03:56:42 PM EST
    Roberts is The Chief. He loves being Chief. He likes being on the winning side of important decisions and issues. He likes fashioning the winning coalition and defining the contours of the winning argument. That's what makes me think he may find a way to vote Yes for SSM.

    Parent
    I certainly hope (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 05:24:16 PM EST
    That you're correct, Peter.

    Parent
    The correct way to spell it is ovbvious... (none / 0) (#183)
    by unitron on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 04:05:23 AM EST
    ...

    "The Notorious RBG"

    Parent

    They are saying (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 05:31:16 PM EST
    that we may get one or more Supreme Court rulings on Thursday.  Thursday now joining Monday as possible court days.

    I have a very bad feeling about the ACA thing.   For several reasons.  Someone earlier said something about a split decision on gay marriage and this.  That sounds ridiculous but possible to me.  I really do think they are going to dispose of the gay marriage thing.  If they do this would be a great opportunity for giving the wingnuts something else to talk about.
    Also George Sanders excellent quote to Marilyn Monroe in All about Eve comes to mind as far as the republicans case.
    They have a point.  An idiotic one, but a point.  
    It is absolutely true that the law doesn't say what it means.  I have to admit I don't think laws should be written that way.  The idiot congress critters SHOULD fix it.  It would take about 15 minutes.
    Finally in an odd way I think a ruling for republicans while disastrous in the short term might actually be a good milestone on the way to actual universal healthcare in the long run.
    When the millions of people effected by this start coming out and telling the story of how profoundly this law had changed their life (I can speak with experience on this subject) and how terrified and abandoned they now feel being sent back to the emergency rooms it will be an interesting new twist in the discussion.
    Especially considering the fact that numbers show a very large majority of people effected will be white southerners

    If the court (none / 0) (#18)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:02:01 PM EST
    rules against the ACA you better bet the GOP is all of a sudden going to come decide to fix the problem. No less that even Chris Wallace was on Paul Ryan's case when he said they have an "alternative" Wallace said what is the alternative? Ryan said it's not complete. Wallace said you have had 5 years to come up with an alternative plan and you have yet to do it.

    Of course they are thinking of only extending it for a year or through the end of 2016. What is the GOP going to do after that? If they do an extension Hillary is going to point out that if a Republican wins the white house people are going to lose their insurance. As a matter of fact she's already banging away at the GOP about that.

    Then if they do a 180 and continue the subsidies their base is going to have a flat out riot against them.

    Parent

    I believe they will (none / 0) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:07:29 PM EST
    fix or extend it.  It would be suicidal to not.
    But it won't be pretty and I can't imagine it being quick.  But even if it is relatively speaking, quick, there will be no avoiding the hysterical news coverage of the stuff I mention above.

    Parent
    Also (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:11:33 PM EST
    i have heard rumors that just to screw them Obama might veto a temporary fix.  It will be interesting.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#30)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:57:16 PM EST
    have heard that they may try to pass a temporary fix with some poison pill(s) to force a veto, then turn around and claim that Obama is "taking healthcare from millions". Sounds absurd, but that's how they roll. Sadly, with the help of the infotainment industry, it might work with a significant portion of the electorate.

    This is your democracy America, cherish it.

    Parent

    That might be the plan (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:09:51 PM EST
    but they are idiots if they think it will work.  I have been hearing this discussed by the old republican men at the diner.

    If people lose their coverage they will know exactly who is to blame.

    Parent

    But, one thing you can count on, (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:21:25 AM EST
    they will continue to vote Republican.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:39:17 AM EST
    i am in a position to understand just how personal this subject is.  I believe you underestimate it.  

    Parent
    I hope you're right, Howdy. (none / 0) (#93)
    by sj on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 12:11:57 PM EST
    If ever I'm wrong, let this be the time. (none / 0) (#94)
    by NYShooter on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 12:24:52 PM EST
    I live in the South now, after 50+ years as a New Yorker. I can't adequately express my sense of depression coming home every day after spending that time working in this environment.

    I remember that article in the NY Times a few months ago. If you recall, they questioned Southerners as to their opinion of the ACA, now that they had health insurance for the first time ever. To a person, they loved it. And, to a person, not one mind was changed as to how they'll continue voting.

    Listen, I hope with all my heart I'm wrong. But, I'll have to actually see it to believe it.

    Parent

    I think republicans (none / 0) (#96)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 12:32:35 PM EST
    thinking republicans, agree with me.  Which is why I think if "it" happens.  They will desperately try to fix it.

    Tea party be damned.

    We will see.

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 12:52:04 PM EST
    they loved it and we're not going to change how they vote.

    We will see what happens when the care they love is taken away by a lawsuit from house republicans.

    Parent

    I Think You Highly Underestimate... (none / 0) (#112)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:32:27 PM EST
    ...the power of propaganda.

    Millions, maybe tens of millions, vote against their best interests in every Presidential election.  They will put it back on Obama for implementing an unlawful law or some other non-sense.

    The idea that republicans will pay for their sins at the election box is pretty funny considering they control Congress.

    Christ, Obama's got half the D's thinking cuts to Social Security are necessary.  And nearly all R's are on-board, you don't get much more against your self interest than cutting SS.

    Insurance being the runner up, but they have almost a zero chance of getting the Presidency, if ACA is shot down, they have time to regroup and like Iraq, it will all forgotten soon enough.


    Parent

    It was my thinking, and (none / 0) (#22)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:13:19 PM EST
    Christinep agreed at the time, that ACA and marriage equality would be paired. One win, one loss.  I remain optimistic on marriage equality, with a 5/4.  I hoped that it might be 6/3 with Chief Justice Roberts in the majority, and assigning himself to writing the Court's opinion.

    This would give him the opportunity to shape/circumscribe the ruling.  But, after the oral hearing, and his agreement with Scalia in the Din case, I am much less sanguine.

    And, yes, Republicans, including presidential candidates Huckabee, Cruz and Carson are already dancing on or around nullification--really irresponsible and reckless for a presidential wannabe.  But, the money will flow in and fill those coffers. And, that is all that counts for them--candidacies are real money makers, and easier than preaching or selling nostrums (Huckabee), legislating (Cruz) or having to comprehend (Carson).  

    Why the Court took the ACA case is mystery, unless the controversial cases are viewed as a whole.  It is true that this case is not a matter of constitutional law but of statutory interpretation.  An "easy" fix for Congress, except it is not. After the years of demonization, and a SC "win" a technical correction is out of the question.  Even a temporary extension of the subsidies until matters might be sorted out is drowning in hostile waters.

     But, as you note, they have created a monster for themselves--no sympathy here, but so destructive to the lives of so many Americans.  Many states got away with denying expansion of Medicaid to their most needy and maybe they think they can do the same for those takers eligible for subsidies.  

    I really hate the idea that the judgements (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:56:19 AM EST
    themselves may have been paired. If the announcement is paired to give some feeling of balance, I guess that is OK. But I hope each case was judged on the merits, not to make a political point.

    Am I hopelessly naive?

    Parent

    As far as the last paragraph (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:17:11 PM EST
    possible if they had done it out of the gate.  IMO not possible now.  People have had more that a year of what it means to have access to healthcare.  Many for the first time in their lives.

    How you gonna keep um down on the farm after they have seen a specialist.

    Parent

    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:32:54 PM EST
    This is the logical, sensible, sane position to take.  However, I believe, we are dealing with illogical, insensitive, and insane people.   Of course, sanity can be restored,  sensitivity returned and logic apparent, if politicians are  threatened by a steaming electorate.  What's a tea party?

    Parent
    Precisely (none / 0) (#27)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:39:10 PM EST
    also adding to the carnage would be the fact, written about quite extensively, that many or even most of the free clinics of the type I visited a few times when uninsured have been disbanded because no one needed them any more.
    The one I visited no longer exists.  I assume there would be a scramble to reopen them but the are run with no money and volunteer staff.  It won't be quick.

    It will be awful.

    Parent

    When you went (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 06:50:14 PM EST
    did you have to spend all day there? I had read that but did not know if it was true or not.

    Parent
    It is entirely true (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:11:01 PM EST
    also every time o went ther I caught something.  Because you are sitting in a room full of very sick people.

    For hours.

    Parent

    Except in my case at least (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:19:26 PM EST
    it was all night.   As I said it was staffed by volunteers who had real jobs.  It started at 5 with doctors usually arriving about 7.  If you were lucky.  It was open one night a month.  I was sometimes home by midnight.

    Parent
    My mother's (none / 0) (#45)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 08:47:51 PM EST
    church supports the free clinic in her town and that is how they operate--opening at 5:00 and the doctors come in after they get off their day job which could be who knows when and they had specialists that rotate like a heart specialists but he might not be there but every other month.

    Parent
    If it sounds like I was complaining (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 09:15:34 PM EST
    im not.  I have nothing but respect and admiration for the people who do the work.  And actually the care, once you get, was good.  I never went there sick.  I got medications there for a few months and I lost my glasses and got replacements that I like very much and am currently wearing.

    Parent
    Baa waa waa (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 09:37:24 PM EST
    I thought I was the only person on the face of the earth that ever lost their glasses. I lost a pair I paid $500 for back in February. I have turned my house upside down looking for them. The cat or the dog must have carried them away because I went for almost 4 months with no glasses. Anyway so I went to one of those chain eyeglass places and got new ones a week or so ago. This time I paid 80 bucks for them. No more expensive progressive lens for me. This time I got the cheap bifocals and the eye doctor even said I could get single lens but really I'm sick of having to keep up with two pairs of glasses when I can barely keep up with one pair.

    Parent
    Don't want to post a link (none / 0) (#57)
    by Yman on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:52:05 AM EST
    ... but Google the words "Zenni optical".  Before my daughter switched to contact lenses, we got tired of replacing glasses at $300 a pop.  For a while, she had matching glasses for different outfits ...

    Parent
    What trumps what? (none / 0) (#35)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 07:37:08 PM EST
    Oh ... I don't mean Donald, as in Trump; rather, assuming that this SCT is unusually political (and, I consider that a likely assumption), this resolution may have more to do with which of the "pair" is seen by the Chief to cost his reputation and legacy the most.  Answer: While I still consider that one win-one loss in terms of progress may well be the outcome, I have waffled lately as to which gets the "win," as it were.

    Going far afield from law--but then, not unlike this Supreme Court excursion  with its interpretation of "person" to include a corporation in Citizens United--I'd guess that CJ Roberts is particularly squeezed with the dilemma of ruling for same sex marriage and/or the small phrase upheaval potential involving subsidies in the ACA case.  My belief, only my belief, is that the Chief Justice appears to be a man who wants to be viewed as not too out-of-step with the society in which he plays a key decisive role.  Given his own family history, his age and the potential background of his educated social group, there might be persuasive pressures tipping in favor of same sex marriage ... after all, younger people are heavily supportive of that legality and LGBT rights are almost routinely regarded as the Civil Rights moment of the age.  The Chief Justice is a smart man, one who would know the ultimate direction of demographic forces on this one ... so, does he seem a Neanderthal and stand in the way OR does he alleviate the situation with a vote upholding same sex marriage.  Still, the remaining question to me: How broad a decision?  Does he carve an outcome that approves what has been approved by lower courts here and add "full faith & credit" reliance to that as a kind of states-rights compromise that has the practical effect of moving forward somewhat but stopping just shy of a specific finding of a constitutional right?  He does have an option there.

    <More on the ACA situation after dinner and some wine....>

    Parent

    Part 2/What trumps what (none / 0) (#48)
    by christinep on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 09:37:13 PM EST
    Pleasant wine with a fine salmon dinner--courtesy of my husband.  So, we'll go back to the ACA subsidies case, the other half of the potential SCt "pairing."

    An admission, first: I'm emotional about the myriad attacks on the ACA over the years.  Simply put, the thought of so many people--millions?--who have been covered via ACA exchanges and reasonably secure in that healthcare coverage for these past few years now facing the political axe of being cut from that care is sad beyond immediate expression.  What fears then, what loss, what want for those who relied on dollar subsidies to ease their healthcare burdens via ACA coverage. My senses find it difficult to comprehend the political cruelty that would lead to such a result.  But, there is more ....

    ....there is more because the challenge is such a stretch in the context of the statute and is without merit in the legislative history.  To the contrary, the fairly contemporaneous legislative intent expressed by the Congressional drafters has uniformly supported the IRS approach to subsidies.  The constipated attempt to disregard thousands of words with their obvious structure and intent for the apparently sole purpose of upending a key financial implementation approach of the ACA is worse than a transparent political ruse.  

    This shouldn't be a game of judicial gotcha; and yet, here we are ... the SCt reached down to take the case without a Circuit split.  Who knows why?  One thing we surely know  or that I recall from statutory construction principles is: If a statute passes Constitutional muster (as the ACA earlier has), matters of construction & interpretation should be construed so as to give full force & effect to the law.  That is the traditional approach ... and, that is why King v. Burwell seems bizarre.  But then, we had a major break with judicial tradition and theory with the corporation-as-person under this Court.  So?

    Until the recent stories about how a "win" for the anti-ACA crowd may backfire, big-time, in time for the 2016 elections should many people be seen to be harmed and the entire US system disrupted, I reluctantly thought that the Chief Justice may step back a bit from his 2012 vote.  I had thought that he may do that in partial judicial recompense for the anger that the conservative ACA-haters felt after his earlier key vote.  Today, I have a hope that the SCt will avoid the jujitsu hinted at by Justice Alito during the argument whereby a short-term extension could be enacted by Congress ... if only because a plethora of news reports point out that Congress has no replacement.  The reason I have that hope:  It is clear that the Court will not be able to paper-over the societal consequence of making such a significant decision based upon four or five ineptly drafted words. That is, the SCt will be the butt of jokes, ongoing arguments, and the kick to reputation that I would think the Chief would want to avoid as a portrait of his Court.

    I hope you are right (none / 0) (#50)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jun 16, 2015 at 09:57:23 PM EST
    it won't be such a disaster for me.  I'm am sinfully healthy.  I had my colonoscopy so I'm good for five years on that and in 18 months I get Medicare.  So for me it's not such a big deal.  
    I can now afford my medication.
    But for many that will not be the case.  You are going to hear about people with horrible health problems from cancer to God only knows being sent back to emergency room care.  I agree with you thinking about that is heartbreaking.
    But I am not confident it will sway the court.  I really hope it does.  You would think the massive economic disruption alone would do it.  But then why did they take it?  It's not like they need stuff to do this term it seems.  I just heard a rundown of the massive list of stuff coming before the end of the month.  Which is why they added an additional reporting day.

    Parent
    I have a question. (none / 0) (#60)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:18:11 AM EST
    It seems that at least in my circle of friends that are gay they seem to be wild about Hillary. I never saw that kind of excitement for Obama. What is the difference? Hillary didn't run a gay bashing Gospel tour?

    Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:20:48 AM EST
    has been a friend for years.  Many years.

    Parent
    I cannot speak for all LGBTQ (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:27:02 AM EST
    people. And, while I have not decided on a candidate yet, I have to say Hillary's record on LGBTQ issues is very strong. As SoS she made sure that same-sex couples and families had all the same protections and considerations that straight couples and their families had. She did this as soon as she took office, well before Obama's change of heart on marriage equality.

    She, like Obama, parsed her position on marriage equality for way too long. Still, her support for all other LGBTQ issues goes back along way.

    Also, unlike Obama, Hillary openly campaigned for the LGBTQ vote in gay bars in 2008. Also, as  you mentioned, she did not indulge in any gay-bashing nor did she campaign with a "formerly gay" and currently gay hating gospel singer.

    Parent

    I have found (none / 0) (#64)
    by CST on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:29:00 AM EST
    something similar.

    Parent
    Let's not forget the first attacks on Hillary (none / 0) (#99)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:23:11 PM EST
    in the 90s, before they turned into saying she killed her male lawyer lover Vince Foster...she is secretly gay!

    I think they way she handled that, never denying it or indicating it was insulting in any way, might have won her some loyalty.

    Parent

    As I recall anyway (none / 0) (#100)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:24:43 PM EST
    maybe she issued some low key denial I missed, but most likely laughed it off in some way.

    Parent
    Oh, (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:54:01 PM EST
    i had forgotten about that. Yeah, I don't remember her ever responding to that particular idiocy. I do remember them accusing Bill of being gay until Monica came along.

    Those are all perfect examples of how the GOP just keeps throwing mud and hope some of it sticks.

    Parent

    fishcamp (none / 0) (#66)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:41:34 AM EST
    I won't be as far south as The Falls today. Enjoy your Miami visit and try not to get shot.

    CG, that's ok. (none / 0) (#156)
    by fishcamp on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 08:58:04 PM EST
    It took over an hour with the genius to straighten out my mistakes. Just when I think I know all about my Apple machinery, I find out I hardly know anything.  Still don't, but he fixed everything.  Didn't even have to shoot anyone either.  Pretty crazy up in the city.  Glad I have a Tarpon charter tomorrow.

    Parent
    24/7 Lockdown... (none / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:35:31 AM EST
    at Clinton Correctional since The Great Escape, with rumors the oppressive lockdown will continue until the escapees are caught.

    I knew the other prisoners would be punished, and their families too, but I didn't think it would be this extreme.  Absolutely shameful...but that's our prison system, one big fat stain on our collective soul.

    Cuomo Feeling the Heat (none / 0) (#91)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:54:07 AM EST
    The New York Daily News reports financial issues may be partly responsible for Richard Matt and David Sweat's June 6 prison break. Two guard towers at the Dannemora prison were left unmanned because Gov. Andrew Cuomo's administration tried to reduce overtime spending.

    The Albany Times-Union adds similar concerns prevented a lockdown and search of every cell at the prison after a large fight between dozens of inmates days before the escape -- again, due to overtime pay concerns.


    LINK

    Parent
    Ruffian (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:44:48 AM EST
    are you still doing Hannibal?

    I am halfway thru the first season and completely hooked.   It's my new favorite thing.

    I disagree with the comment from I forget who that said "there has never been a show like it"

    I see many echoes of Dexter.  Wondering if you do.

    Yes! Have not watched more since last (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:53:14 AM EST
    post, but I really liked it so far, a few episodes in to Season 1. I did not know Huch Dancy was in it until I started - always love him. He is very good, as is the Hannibal actor. Good writing too.

    Yes, having seen Dexter I don't find it that groundbreaking...maybe for non-pay cable it is though.  

    Parent

    Hey, have you seen the one (none / 0) (#160)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:28:58 PM EST
    with the angel maker yet? How did he do the last one?

    Parent
    JudgeThomas Durkin (none / 0) (#102)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:41:29 PM EST
    of Federal District Court in Chicago has approved prosecutor's request to keep some evidence against former Republican Speaker of the House, Dennis Hastert, secret. The motion for a protective order says any discovery provided to defense lawyers may not be disclosed to anyone not involved in the case, even after it ends.  Copies of materials can not be made without Court approval.  Prosecutors said disclosing the information could harm law enforcement  interests and the privacy of third parties.  

    A lot of mystery and secrecy for charges of violating banking requirements and lying to the FBI.  Especially, that  "harm to law enforcement interests." The sealing means that the details of his alleged misconduct may never become public. As I predicted as the case left the starting gate, a deal  (plea, fine and community service--hopefully at a geriatric center) and a seal.

    Real role of Graham & Trump!! (none / 0) (#103)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:45:06 PM EST
    What those would-be beltway prognosticators seem to be noticing in recent weeks is what our commenter-colleague, Ga6thDem, has been asserting for a long time: Jeb! cannot reach or appeal in any way to the real, real Southern and TeaPot rightwing Repubs.  Ga6th has argued for some time that the Repub activists who votes in Repub primaries have had it with the likes of McCain-Romney not-far-enough-right types and that Bush represents the same to them. <At least, Ga6th, that is my read of your consistent alerts in that area. Correct me if I've misstated, please.>

    The recent "journalistic" awareness that Bush neither has any clothes nor any actual "!" is, of course, softened by the DC & NYC pundits who stress his connections and many fundraised $$$$$ in the same breath. The emergence of Rubio and/or Walker as the big challengers to the usual Repub default to a Bush-type does signal serious obstacles to Jeb IF the newbies falter as the early leaders often do or IF the further right splits its vote among the wackiest in the bus.

    And then, there is this possibility that would certainly assist the !-less Bush: What if Lindsey Graham continues to hold the putative lead in his home-state of South Carolina (a likely prospect) AND what if the billionaire-buffoon Donald Trump isn't such a total fool in the end should he be able to gain a sliver of votes in the teen-percentages along the southeast coast and Deep South Repub primaries. BTW, this idea popped up as I read in a few places the past day that Trump may well attract the "I'm mad as he!! about any regular politician, and it is good that Trump has the dough to speak his mind, blah, blah, blah."  Here is the shocker ... that sliver of angry, furthest right in the Repub Party is estimated in anecdotal articles to be up to 20% of voters ... and, if that is so, Trump's little-bitty take boosts Rubio and/or Walker in an important early phase to the delegate detriment of Bush.

    Remember also that South Carolina has a large number of delegates in the Repub primary system since it votes reliably Repub in general elections.  So ... turning back to Lindsey and what is in it for him.  One possibility is that Graham gets to press his foreign policy beliefs on a national level and that he can hold the delegates until they are really needed by the "establishment" Bush ... because Lindsey Graham has a record much closer to the $$$$ Repubs than to the crazies that dominate even his own state.  The role of Graham, obviously, depends upon whether Bush really is earlier out-maneuvered by a Walker or Rubio in their pursuit of the further right primary voters.  

    Whoops ... omitted some key words (none / 0) (#106)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:55:53 PM EST
    In second paragraph: Add after "newbies" the two words "do not" and after "further right" add "does not."  Thanks.

    Parent
    Not a fan (none / 0) (#108)
    by sj on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:13:31 PM EST
    of anyone in the GOP field of potential candidates. But I am also not a fan of the term (in any context) "newbies" or, even worse, "noobs".

    It is insulting -- as if a person only just came into being simply because they have recently entered a new environment.

    IMO

    Parent

    If that's the way you take that phrase... (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by unitron on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 04:30:32 AM EST
    ...then that's the way you take it, and I can see how it might bug you, but this is the first time I've ever heard of anyone interpreting it that way rather than "someone new to this particular environment or endeavor".

    Those who distress you by using it are, I feel reasonably certain, not using it to mean what you see it as meaning.

    The question of whether it can still be condescending and derogatory, even though intended to mean newness in a particular narrow category, like a surfer calling someone a gremmie, is not quite the same thing.

    Parent

    Sorry, if you are insulted. (none / 0) (#109)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:25:19 PM EST
    As if (none / 0) (#133)
    by sj on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 05:04:04 PM EST
    You stand by all your insults.
    Sorry, if you are insulted. (none / 0) (#109)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 01:25:19 PM MDT
    But why are you trying to make this personal? You haven't insulted me (this time) as I have not entered the Republican race to the bottom for Presidency.

    I seriously doubt that you would be sorry for any previous and future insults (to me or anyone else) as you clearly think you are being clever when make them. For an example, I am replying to comment that you think is clever.

    But I must admit I was remiss when I didn't mention that you are hardly the only "offender" when it comes to the very dismissive "newbie/noob" usage -- that term has been showing up lot lately. You have every right to think I was singling you out for a ... whatever.

    I wasn't, so I apologize for that.

    If I wanted to single you out for something, that field is fertile and I would have chosen something else. It's hardly slim pickings. I just wasn't doing it this time.


    Parent

    not personal... (none / 0) (#143)
    by christinep on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:13:38 PM EST
    only sorry if you feel offended or insulted.  That's all.

    Parent
    Oy (none / 0) (#178)
    by sj on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 12:00:57 AM EST
    I forgot about your lack of reading skills, so I'll clarify.
    You haven't insulted me (this time) as I have not entered the Republican race to the bottom for Presidency.
    I'll make it even simpler for you:

    I don't feel insulted or offended. At all.

    Just annoyed. Too bad you aren't sorry about that.

    Parent

    Fresh faces, medieval brains. (none / 0) (#110)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:25:44 PM EST
    Today's yesterday man, Rand Paul:  As reported by Frank Bruni (NYT, June 17), Rand Paul tried hard to identify with youth, speaking in a blazer and khakis,  attempted to hit a chord with his subjects about the need to protect personal information in cyberspace--keeping it safe from snooping from the government.  To explain, he invoked the adage, " a man's house is his castle,"  then updated it.."now, we would say a man or a wife's castle."   Rand's thinking may well run to castles, but "a man or a wife's castle?"  Really.

    One Century at a Time (5.00 / 2) (#115)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:42:39 PM EST
    Give him some credit, at least he appears to acknowledge that wives in fact are co-owners of the castle.

    Parent
    Maybe he is thinking (none / 0) (#117)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:51:05 PM EST
    of a chattel marriage.

    Parent
    We would say that if it was (5.00 / 2) (#118)
    by Anne on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 02:58:26 PM EST
    about 40 years ago...I was married in 1980, and
    we were pronounced "husband and wife" and not "man and wife."

    Some people are still just so clueless.

    Parent

    Tyrant (none / 0) (#137)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 06:06:44 PM EST
    FXs Mid East political intrigue series restarted this week.  Pretty good stuff-

    VARIETY-`Tyrant' Season 2: Howard Gordon on Real-World Impact, `Game of Thrones' Comparisons

    A woman on the $10 Bill. (none / 0) (#145)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:25:24 PM EST
    Secretary of the Treasury Jack Lew is set to announce on Thursday that the Bureau of Engraving and Printing will remove Alexander Hamilton from the ten dollar bill, in favor of a woman.


    I nominate... (3.50 / 2) (#173)
    by desertswine on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:35:39 PM EST
    Beyoncé.

    Parent
    Okay, that made me laugh (none / 0) (#179)
    by sj on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 12:03:58 AM EST
    But I'm sure Kanye would agree with that.

    Parent
    Eleanor Roosevelt or Harriet Tubman? (none / 0) (#146)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 07:28:23 PM EST
    Should find out tomorrow. My bet is on the latter.

    Parent
    Sacajawea? (none / 0) (#157)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:00:08 PM EST
    Well, they already mint the (none / 0) (#161)
    by Zorba on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 09:31:38 PM EST
    Sacajawea (or Sacagawea) dollar.

    The Sacagawea dollar (also known as the "golden dollar") is a United States dollar coin that has been minted every year since 2000, although not released for general circulation from 2002 through 2008 and again from 2012 onward due to its general unpopularity with the public and low business demand for the coin. These coins have a copper core clad by manganese brass, giving them a distinctive golden color. The coin features an obverse by Glenna Goodacre. From 2000 to 2008, the reverse featured an eagle design by Thomas D. Rogers. Since 2009, the reverse of the Sacagawea dollar has been changed yearly, with each design in the series depicting a different aspect of Native American cultures.

    Link

    Jack Lew signature or not.   ;-)

    Parent

    I thought they were considering Tubman ... (none / 0) (#186)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 04:44:42 AM EST
    ... as a replacement for Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill. Jackson, an unapologetic white supremacist who was hostile to the concept of a federal reserve system and effectively abolished the Second Bank of the United States as president, was always an inappropriate choice to adorn our national currency and dearly needs replacing.

    Parent
    The $10 bill (none / 0) (#198)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:12:37 AM EST
    Is already in line for a redesign.  It will not only feature a woman (with an image of Alexander Hamilton still somewhere on it), but it will also havetactile features so a visually-impaired person can distinguish it.

    The decision will be made by Secretary Lew by the end of the year and will be in circulation in 2020 - the 100th anniversary of womens' suffrage.

    Parent

    Just another law abiding gun owner (none / 0) (#164)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 10:01:56 PM EST
    in Charleston, SC tonight.

    Law abiding? (2.00 / 4) (#182)
    by Redbrow on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 01:09:38 AM EST
    It is illegal to murder people by shooting them.

    It is illegal to even bring a gun into a church in SC.

    "You may not carry a firearm in churches or other religious sanctuaries,or in hospitals or medical facilities." (S.C. Code Ann.§ 23-31-215.)

    And we know absolutely nothing about the shooter yet, so who knows if he is a legal gun owner to begin with?

    ...or maybe you just decided to take advantage of this tragedy to further your anti-constitution agenda without really thinking it through first.

    Parent

    ... and that he deliberately targeted one of the nation's oldest black churches. So why don't you put two and two together for us, and explain how even though it apparently equaled nine in this particular instance, it's not a hate crime?

    :-(

    Parent

    The right of crazies to shoot up (none / 0) (#188)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 06:53:22 AM EST
    Public places shall not be infringed upon because of 2nd Amendment Absolutionists like the commentator you replied to.

    Parent
    Early reports (none / 0) (#174)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:39:49 PM EST
    Multiple fatalities as a gunmen enters a church and starts shooting in downtown Charleston.

    Gunmen still on the loose.

    Parent

    Oh no (none / 0) (#180)
    by sj on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 12:04:50 AM EST
    That is just so tragic.

    Parent
    Police now say (none / 0) (#200)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:23:08 AM EST
    The gunman was in the church attending a prayer meeting for about an hour before he started shooting.

    Parent
    For those familiar with Charleston (none / 0) (#176)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 17, 2015 at 11:46:17 PM EST
    it's at the corner of Calhoun and Meeting St right near Marion Square and about three blocks from the College of Charleston.

    Parent
    Being reported (none / 0) (#181)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 12:28:23 AM EST
    Among the dead is SC state senator Clementa Pinckney who was the pastor of the Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church.

    Parent
    picture of the shooter ... (none / 0) (#201)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 08:30:55 AM EST
    picture of the shooter and car

    -- still at large

    Brumfield v Cain (none / 0) (#203)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 09:07:53 AM EST
    is out.   Death penalty case I think.

    No SSM or ACA today (none / 0) (#205)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 09:29:39 AM EST


    Yes if he hadn't used a traditional (none / 0) (#207)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 11:22:34 AM EST
    American male symbol of power/phallic symbol, that you can efficiently and quickly aim and kill targeted individuals with, he would've just used a bomb, a knife, or a blow gun..

    I should add: and easy to get your hands on.. (none / 0) (#208)
    by jondee on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 11:34:35 AM EST
    and hide and transport and charm and beguile fellow gun nuts with..

    The Boston marathon bomber (none / 0) (#209)
    by CST on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 11:37:12 AM EST
    used bombs, in a crowded place, and killed 3 people.  Yes, many more were injured, some horrifically, but only 3 actually died.

    CST, You Forgot the 'S'... (none / 0) (#210)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 12:30:50 PM EST
    ...as in bombers, two people killed 3 using bombs.  they used a thing we can't talk about to kill a cop and hijack a car.

    A car also killed a bomber.

    They Caught Him (none / 0) (#211)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Jun 18, 2015 at 12:42:17 PM EST
    Dylann Roof, 21, was caught after 11 a.m. ET following Wednesday night's massacre at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church. He was arrested about 245 miles north in Shelby, North Carolina, during a traffic stop, Charleston Police Chief Gregory Mullen said at a news conference.

    He said this, which is awfully familiar to a candidates announcement speech:

    "You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go,"

    LINK