home

Is the Intelligence Community Violating EO 13526 on Classification?

On December 29, 2009, President Obama issued Executive Order 13526. In the preamble, this EO is described as:

Our democratic principles require that the American people be informed of the activities of their Government. Also, our Nation's progress depends on the free flow of information both within the Government and to the American people. Nevertheless, throughout our history, the national defense has required that certain information be maintained in confidence in order to protect our citizens, our democratic institutions, our homeland security, and our interactions with foreign nations. Protecting information critical to our Nation's security and demonstrating our commitment to open Government through accurate and accountable application of classification standards and routine, secure, and effective declassification are equally important priorities.

Is the Intelligence Community (IC) acting consistently with the principles of this Executive Order? We have many reasons to doubt it. The Hillary Clinton e-mail brouhaha is a great illustration of this. Richard Lempert, a fellow at Brookings and a former DHS official, writes:

[S]ecurity professionals have a reputation for erring in the direction of overclassification. Not only may information be classified when its revelation would pose no serious security threat, but there have allegedly been instances where agencies classified information for impermissible reasons such as to cover up crimes or avoid embarrassing the agency. Early in his first term President Obama issued Executive Order 13526 designed to tilt the balance toward greater disclosure by emphasizing the need for an unequivocal and strong security or foreign policy nexus before information is classified (“If there is significant doubt about the need to classify information, it shall not be classified.” Sec, 1.1 (4)(b) ) If, however, my experience within one agency was typical, some at the operational level may not have fully bought-in to the President’s slant.[My emphasis]

Of course a Presidential Executive Order is more than a "slant." It is a binding law for those bound by it. The Intelligence Community is bound by Presidential Executive Orders.

In a diary yesterday, I detailed an AP story heavily sourced by IC sources that described the so called "classified information" the IC discovered in 2 Clinton received e-mails:

The two emails on Hillary Rodham Clinton's private server that an auditor deemed "top secret" include a discussion of a news article detailing a U.S. drone operation and a separate conversation that could point back to highly classified material in an improper manner or merely reflect information collected independently, U.S. officials who have reviewed the correspondence told The Associated Press.

Discussion of a news article could be deemed "Top Secret" says the IC. But what does EO 13526 say?

Top Secret" shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe.

How could discussion of a news article "reasonably be expected to cause exceptionally grave damage to the national security that the original classification authority is able to identify or describe?" (My emphasis.) Is it because the discussion "could point back to highly classified material in an improper manner?" But we know that is speculative at best, for the AP reported that "nothing in the emails Clinton received makes clear reference to communications intercepts, confidential intelligence methods or any other form of sensitive sourcing."

So under what conceivable theory could this e-mail be "Top Secret?" The AP story tells the IC story - "The copy makes reference to classified information, and a Clinton adviser follows up by dancing around a top secret in a way that could possibly be inferred as confirmation, they said. Several officials, however, described this claim as tenuous."

By definition, the IC claim is speculative. "Could possibly be inferred?" Really? That's what the IC is hanging its hat on? This simply is not consistent with the principles enunciated in EO 13526.

And to be clear, State thinks the IC is not following the spirit of EO 13526:

NEA decided, consistent with the Attorney General's 2009 FOIA guidance, to redact certain limited information under exemption 5 which reflected deliberations among policy officials

IC insists on total withholding on classification grounds. State clearly believes that's not consistent with EO 13526. It's clear IC is not following the President''s direction on this point.

Now I doubt anyone actually cares about that either, but at least it's a substantive issue. As opposed to the political witch hunt that is EGhazi.

< AP Story Demonstrates Weak Claims Against Hillary On E-mails | Saturday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    The bottom (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 11:34:04 AM EST
    line is the IG is a Clapper apostle that thinks everything should be classified and could care less about executive orders or anything else. His main goal is to stunt FOIA requests.

    We may never know the true motivation (none / 0) (#3)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:32:18 PM EST
    Most of the NSA are Conservatives.  If the conversation made Clinton appear competent under war time crisis, they would want that stifled too because they long to serve a Conservative President. It's impossible to know what his true motivations in fighting this fight are.  All we know is a lot of other people involved disagree with him.

    Parent
    What (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:51:49 PM EST
    I find hysterical is the GOP is now doing a 180. Everything classified was bad because Obama was spying on them now is good.

    Just goes to show with conservatives they stand for nothing so they'll fall for anything.

    Parent

    True (none / 0) (#198)
    by ursulareinosa on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 06:42:00 AM EST
    I agree completely with you. Best regards

    Anabel

    Parent

    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#199)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 07:06:29 AM EST
    I care (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:28:14 PM EST
    This President suffered the horror of taking over a Presidency from the Bush administration. War crimes were covered up in Iraq using the classification game.  President Obama is attempting to make that difficult to do again for obvious reasons.

    This is an important fight. The less transparency we have the more certain figures in power feel empowered to engage in immoral or criminal acts.

    The problem you have (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:25:17 AM EST
    is that information is said to be about signals intelligence and satellite/drone info.

    A 15 year old would know that is secret stuff.

    Yet Hillary didn't.

    How old is she??????????

    And where did the info come from and who sent it and who else received copies??

    The FBI wants to know.

    Jim, your first sentence, (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 07:56:06 PM EST
    About  signals intelligence and satellite/drone info Whether true or not  was thrown out there to provoke an argument.  You didn't get one the other day so you said it again. That, my friend, is trolling.

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#146)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 08:51:55 PM EST
    that is the claim that is being made about the content. And every Hillary supporter is busily denying it.

    We'll see.

    Parent

    FAUX nooze Sunday (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:54:08 AM EST
    is a regular EGhazi Ho-Down.   Combined with a wake for the political ambitions of Ms Clinton.

    It's like wing nut porn.

    Pretty (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by FlJoe on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 09:47:22 AM EST
    much the same on CNN, they declare it a "problem" for Hillary after letting her foes shout "criminal" without ever correcting them. Pathetic.

    Parent
    Long segment (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:55:23 AM EST
    with Gowdy Dooty.

    Parent
    It's like the Red Queen in Alice In Wonderland (none / 0) (#39)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:56:35 AM EST
    Sentence first, verdict afterwards.

    Parent
    After Reading 75 Comments... (5.00 / 2) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 09:48:53 AM EST
    ...not one mention of a crime committed by HRC.

    Plenty of innuendo and speculation, but to say that one person can't state one crime committed is bothersome.

    To put it in perspective, if this was G Zimmerman, we would 1001 republicans screaming 'foul' or 'railroaded' or 'media sucks' 'innocent until proven guilty'.

    Perfect example of different rules.

    More than innuendo (1.00 / 2) (#95)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 11:52:13 AM EST
    not one mention of a crime committed by HRC

    Really, Scott??

    Let's see where we are and how we got here:

    The Case Against Hillary Clinton

    Parent

    You should be banned (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 12:07:55 PM EST
    The link is to Fox New commentary by Jeannie Pirro.  In other words, right wing propaganda....

    No facts, just trollery.

    Parent

    My advice would be to never click on (5.00 / 4) (#99)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 12:29:53 PM EST
    one of Chip's links; they will never take you anywhere credible, never give you anything but what I call fractured facts, wild speculation and heaps of conspiracy theory.

    I suppose it is one way to gauge just how hysterical the right is getting, but I think it's been pretty well established that these people are not in touch with reality, so why even subject yourself to it?

    [I will thank Chip in advance for the "1" he is sure to give me]

    Parent

    Still Not One Crime... (none / 0) (#98)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 12:08:34 PM EST
    ...but thanks for making my point.

    Parent
    Nearly 8 Hours... (none / 0) (#127)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 04:13:58 PM EST
    ...and not one republican can name a single crime, but GD they know what she is is illegal.

    Pathetic SOP, Standard Operating Procedure.

    Parent

    Yes, I know using (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 05:40:21 PM EST
    the term "politically correct" is the way conservatives justify the most horrid bigotry nowadays....

    enough with the insults (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 06:25:13 PM EST
    to Jim. I'm deleting some of Mordigan's comments now. Mordigan will go into timeout if he doesn't stop baiting and making personal attacks. You can all (including Jim, he's not exempt) disagree with a comment without belittling the author.

    Insults to jim??? (5.00 / 4) (#197)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 06:24:49 AM EST
    Jim is an insult to this entire blog, Jeralyn...he plops himself in here daily to shovel out right-wing talking points, and clog up the blog.  

    I know you've often said that it doesn't matter to you whether people post here or not, but I have to tell you that I have had multiple people contact me to say that (1) they no longer comment here because they can't stand the impunity with which jim - and a few others - are allowed to derail discussions, (2) they find it incomprehensible how you banish and put in time-out the people who are NOT the root of the problem, and (3) they have no idea why you would want the comments section of Talk LEFT to be taken over by right-wingers.

    It's your blog - but if your vision for it is to have it subsumed by people like jim, you might as well re-name it TALK RIGHT; at least that would let people know ahead of time that their left-leaning, liberal points of view are not going to be as welcome as those of someone whose own blog is a racist pile of garbage, and others whose points of view are just vile.

    Time for me to take a time out, too, I think, and consider whether this is really the right place for me.

    Parent

    No Offense... (5.00 / 2) (#201)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 01:49:19 PM EST
    ...but Jim leads TL in insults, it's actually hard to find a comment in which he does belittle just about everyone here.

    If you don't have the time to properly enforce your own rules, please do not do it selectively.  It's shameful the most posts, at a very liberal blog, are made by a right wing hack who continuously is allowed to break rules, including: insulting, belittling, baiting, blog clogging, and off topic posts.

    Remove Jim and you won't have to worry about anyone insulting anyone with any regularity, posts will not fill up, and the precious bandwidth, that we donate money to help support, will be cut in half.  And most importantly, your regulars will be able to freely discuss important topics without having to deal with Jim's repeated dumbshittery and purposeful baiting.

    Jim is a scourge to Talk Left who adds nothing of value, his ratings prove it, he is not here to discuss, but to annoy, he is the definition of a troll:

    One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument.

    Unlike Anne, I don't need a timeout for pointing out the obvious.

    Parent

    I'm with Anne and Scott, Jeralyn. (5.00 / 1) (#202)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 03:01:23 PM EST
    You're running a serious risk of losing a number of really thoughtful and articulate contributors here, because they're becoming increasingly exasperated by Jim's antics. It's one thing to have an informed, conservative POV and difference of opinion, but that's not what's happening here.

    If I want heaping helpings of climate change science denialism, liberal- and Democrat-bashing, and the willful misinterpretation of facts and truth, I'll watch Fox News and listen to AM squawk radio. Lately, we're getting up to 30-40 doses of it from Jim alone in each of your Open Threads.

    You've got another guy farther down this thread -- not Jim, BTW -- who just posted a comment a few minutes ago about how Hillary Clinton should get 20 years in prison for this manufactured e-mail controversy. That's the kind of blatant stuff which is meant to provoke the online food fights you're seeing and disliking. Certainly, it is not in any way representative of the sort of informed and respectful exchanges of opinions and ideas you say you want to foster.

    You're right in that we do have options here and can go elsewhere, but so do you in deciding whether or not you're going to be consistent in enforcing your own stated rules. And you can't reasonably expect that most people are going to want to hang out here, if they can anticipate a fair to strong likelihood of being belittled, having their intelligence insulted, and seeing their personal integrity challenged and impugned on a regular basis.

    I've likened this in the past to having to endure an obnoxious / belligerent in-law at a family party or gathering. I'm not going to advocate that you get rid of Jim and a few others, as some have done. But I will note that it is incumbent upon you as TL's host to rein in their worst excesses, particularly when you see people openly complaining about it.

    We can't do that for you, Jeralyn. All we can do here is ignore their bait, push back against their nonsense when they insist upon following us around the room, or leave your party altogether.

    And speaking of leaving, this will be my last word on the subject. Now, I'm off to the airport again, to pick up more relatives. Only three days until the wedding.

    Aloha.  

    Parent

    Cleared of insults TO jim? (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by sj on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 06:34:31 PM EST
    You have got to be kidding. How on earth did that happen? While nearly 20 comments of jim's -- with the most baseless innuendo or outright accusations -- are, apparently, just fine. Blog clogging? What's that?

    I have always tried to respect this blog's standards and I know you want to remain searchable by other legal sites, but are you really happy with what they will find these days?


    Parent

    thread cleaned (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 06:52:22 PM EST
    of most off topic comments and comments about Jim. He is not the topic. Nor are his views. This thread got badly hijacked. Jim, if you keep posting about your views on every topic under the sun instead of the topic of the thread, you will go into timeout too. This is not an open thread.

    Now there's more (2.67 / 3) (#45)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 12:59:36 PM EST
    Number of Hillary's emails flagged for classified data grows to 60

    While media coverage has focused on a half-dozen of Hillary Rodham Clinton's personal emails containing sensitive intelligence, the total number of her private emails identified by an ongoing State Department review as having contained classified data has ballooned to 60, officials told The Washington Times.


    Very interesting (2.25 / 4) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:38:33 PM EST
    Hillary is under fire for mishandling classified info...and what do we have here??

    A post that says that the intelligence folks over classify.

    If I ever thought Hillary wasn't guilty this post says she is.

    If you ever thought she wasn't guilty.. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    lol

    When her biggest, most unforgivable crime is being Hillary Clinton. And being a Democrat who's running for President.

     

    Parent

    Ha (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:49:00 PM EST
    In fact clinton is not under investigation at all.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:59:57 PM EST
    Clinton Rules insist she is always under investigation and guilty of something yet to be determined.

    Parent
    This is what happens (none / 0) (#17)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 02:16:02 PM EST
    when one's brain is on Faux Noise.  

    Any questions.

    Parent

    That's because you're a right-wing tool. (4.40 / 5) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:07:49 PM EST
    And unlike BTD, you (a) traffic in misinformation; (b) don't know what you're talking about; and (c) simply parrot the empty rhetoric of the professionally outraged GOP provocateur class.

    Good day to you, sir.


    Parent

    I believe the (5.00 / 4) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 02:16:44 PM EST
    commenter's response to BTD's information meets the definition of a trolling --designed to provoke, adds no counter-position, attributes "guilty" to something undefined.   An opinion of Mrs Clinton may be more  acceptable in an open thread.  It does not deserve a comment response, in my view.  If anything, a troll mark should do.  

    Parent
    I told him the other day that from now on, I was going to use a boiler plate response to his nonsense. That's what I've done here, and I will keep on doing it the future for as long as he keeps it up. I've got nothing more to say to him.

    Parent
    I suggest you all attend (none / 0) (#13)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:37:14 PM EST
    a few Tea Party gatherings. Then you'll find out the final awful truth about Benghazi, Planned Parenthood organ harvests, and how Hillary and others are laying the groundwork for the first alien invasion from space.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:47:56 PM EST
    "mishandling classified info" story went down with all the other right wing conspiracy theories. LOL. Are you still looking for Obama's birth certificate?

    But I'm sure you're going to try to keep flogging that nonsense. I'm glad you're admitting that pretty much the GOP has nothing.

    Parent

    From ABC News: (1.00 / 1) (#110)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:07:53 PM EST
    IT firm hired by Hillary Clinton: It's 'highly likely' there's a backup of emails she deleted

    The IT firm hired by Hillary Clinton to oversee her private server has told ABC it is "highly likely" a backup copy of the server was made, meaning any emails Clinton deleted before she handed the server over to investigators may still be accessible.


    what is the point of this? (3.67 / 3) (#111)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:26:42 PM EST
    Do you think you have a right to go digging through her personal emails?  You want to go sniffing around in her undies while you're at it?

    Parent
    The point is (none / 0) (#113)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:41:54 PM EST
    Hillary (or more accurately her agents) are the ones who get to say what emails are personal and what emails are work related.  Not sure how many courts would allow someone to pick and choose what is and is not covered by a search warrant.

    Parent
    that is standard procedure (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:58:48 PM EST
    Even for persons using the .gov system, the individual is responsible for determining which are work related and which are personal and can be deleted.

    Parent
    how did you jump to search warrants? (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 03:12:18 PM EST
    Surely you understand the legal significance of a "search warrant"?  In what way does this apply to Secretary Clinton's emails?

    Now, in response to a subpoena for documents, this is standard as far as I know.  The person subpoenaed is responsible for picking and choosing what documents are required to be turned over.

    Parent

    The goal (none / 0) (#115)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:43:38 PM EST
    has always been to get the personal emails and nothing else. I'm glad you are admitting it. It's not about national security or anything else. The GOP could care less about national security as they have shown but definitely loves crotch snifffing and pilfering through underwear drawers.

    Parent
    Um, (none / 0) (#123)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 03:16:59 PM EST
    actually it's standard government practice for someone to get to decide what is personal and what is not. The final arbiter of that is the person who runs the account.

    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:42:10 PM EST
    she deleted personal emails but everybody knows that no email is truly deleted. So there goes another GOP talking point down the drain screaming about deleted emails.

    Parent
    And now there is this: (1.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 04:28:56 PM EST
    State Department Accused Of `Incompetence' After It `Finds' 81,000 Clinton Aide Emails

    The State Department says it has more than 81,000 state.gov emails from a top Clinton aide at the State Department despite the agency's past claims that it did not have such records.

    The discrepancy, which has led to accusations that the State Department is either "lying" or "incompetent," is laid out in the agency's Aug. 13 response in a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by Gawker.

    In Sept. 2012, the website filed a FOIA request for emails Clinton aide Philippe Reines sent to reporters at various news agencies. The State Department responded in July 2013, saying that it found no responsive records.

    Gawker followed up with an appeal saying it is "difficult to believe" that Reines sent no emails on his state.gov account given that some of his emails had already been published at the time.

    Big day for Hillary and her State Department -- what was "lost" seems to now have been "found".

    State Department (none / 0) (#130)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 05:09:44 PM EST
    Is going to be reamed for their apparent dismissal of FOIA requests,
    Either incompetence, or willfull neglect.

    Either case , they will reamed

    And will provide everything anyone is asking for

    Now

    Parent

    Do you believe in (none / 0) (#138)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 06:27:08 PM EST
    FOIA?  Or is just a talking point?

     

    Parent

    Great info BTD and I wish (none / 0) (#4)
    by fishcamp on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:34:42 PM EST
    I knew more about it, but it doesn't seem there is more about it that we need to be concerned, like so many are.  Too many of my friends say Hillary is lying about her emails, but when I ask them what she lied about, they go into a very strange form of anger.  Since we can't trust our news from TV or the newspapers,  because they are words interpreted by some other writer,  I'm going with what you report, so please keep on reporting.  Thanks.

    That's the (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 12:50:15 PM EST
    rub. They say she's guilty but can't say exactly what law she broke. They really can't even tell you what. It's just screaming that she lied. Okay. So that's the 2016 GOP campaign in a nutshell. Politics of personal destruction.

    Parent
    Lee Papa, aka The Rude Pundit, ... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:18:46 PM EST
    ... echoes your sentiments about the GOP's present state, in his own inimical way.

    Parent
    Oh, man (none / 0) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:59:14 PM EST
    I should start saying that. Every time a conservative says we need a president like Reagan we should all say what? Dead.

    Parent
    Ga6th, I can't wait to (none / 0) (#81)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 07:24:47 AM EST
    use that line about Reagan in the gym this morning.  In fact, I usually hate going to the gym, but this morning I'm going early.

    Parent
    I guess (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 07:37:22 AM EST
    you have already hit them with the fact that Ronald Reagan declared war on the Keys in 1982.

    Parent
    No, I don't remember that (none / 0) (#94)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 11:37:59 AM EST
    I was safely tucked in Aspen in 1982.  What happened?

    Parent
    Here (5.00 / 1) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 12:05:00 PM EST
     is a link

    Under the pretext of the war on drugs Reagan shut down Key West asking everybody for their "papers".

    Parent

    Thanks Ga6th... (none / 0) (#105)
    by fishcamp on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 12:57:28 PM EST
    All the other articles about the keys, in that website are great.  I've been inside of one of those cement hurricane houses and they are safe but dreary and weird.  The albino peacock story is very odd..  Come on down and we can go to most of those places by boat.

    Parent
    Lempert: (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 01:01:01 PM EST
    Not only may information be classified when its revelation would pose no serious security threat, but there have allegedly been instances where agencies classified information for impermissible reasons such as to cover up crimes or avoid embarrassing the agency. [italics added.]

    Kind of waffly.  

    Lots of stuff still classified about (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 09:24:49 PM EST
    The Abu Ghraib investigations because they deemed having the raw information made public a security risk to US troops.

    Parent
    Hillary enters (none / 0) (#19)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 03:31:13 PM EST
    the 4th stage of Prefabrication:

    admission by mockery

    It was a joke (none / 0) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 03:42:51 PM EST
    Good lord. You guys are the most sour faced doom and gloomers on the planet.

    Parent
    Yeah. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 05:09:14 PM EST
    I bet they're just a ton of fun to be around at parties and other social gatherings.

    Parent
    et al (none / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 05:15:55 PM EST
    You protest too much.

    Time will tell.

    BTW - Why did Hillary have her server professionally wiped??

    I mean if there was nothing there...

    She wiped the server (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 05:50:56 PM EST
    Because she didn't need to have them on the server to be a possible target of hackers?

    You still have yet to name even one law, let alone one government regulation, that Hillary violated to transgressed, Jim.

    As they say in TX, you've been all hat and no cattle on this issue.

    Parent

    So she had the server which had (none / 0) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 10:31:04 PM EST
    classified information on wiped clean so that hackers couldn't hack it?

    Come on. If you believe that there is no hope for you.

    Parent

    The information on the e-mails (none / 0) (#30)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 10:34:59 PM EST
    was determined to be classified after she received them.

    And as for credulity, you"re the  one who buys all the Faux Noise propaganda and shills for it here, Jim.

    Thanks for a good laugh today.

    Parent

    You make my point (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:20:59 AM EST
    1. Someone sent the emails. Who put classified info re satellite/drone and signal intelligence on the email? And where did they get the info?

    2. Evidently, since she did nothing to correct the very very very serious breach, Hillary either didn't care or is too dumb to know it should not have been in the emails.

    If you want to claim that she is dumb, okay. Be my guest.

    Parent
    The only point you consistently make is the (4.00 / 3) (#40)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 09:23:21 AM EST
    one in the area of the top of your head.

    You have yet to explain how it is a crime or a problem or her fault or her responsibility for having RECEIVED e-mails from someone in some other agency or department and WHICH SHE DID NOT SEND ON TO ANYONE ELSE.

    Or, how she was supposed to know that an e-mail she received was classified when it wasn't marked as such by the sende.  It may not even have been read by her - wasn't identified as classified or top-secret until several years later, and under circumstances in which the "Intelligence" community has undertaken a turf war with the State Department, which does not and did not assess the e-mails in question as being classified, needing to be classified, or that she had anything to do with any of this.  

    How do you correct a breach that isn't there at the time and that your agency never considered to be a problem in the first place?

    I don't know, jim; maybe Hillary is dumb.  Maybe she just wasn't as smart as the Republicans in the Bush administration who were using private e-mail by orders of magnitude larger than anything Clinton ever transacted on her little server, and when questions were asked about it - oopsie! - somehow an estimated 5-10 MILLION e-mails just vanished into the ether.  Gone,  disappeared, vanished.  Never to be seen or inspected or questioned.

    Is that your definition of smart?  Or does it only apply to Republicans?

    Parent

    Okay, anne. I will play. (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 12:39:54 PM EST
    Let's start:

    "You have yet to explain how it is a crime or a problem or her fault or her responsibility for having RECEIVED e-mails from someone in some other agency or department and WHICH SHE DID NOT SEND ON TO ANYONE ELSE.
    "

    It goes to being responsible for something AFTER the fact. If you receive stolen property, that is a crime if you don't report it. If you receive emails with obviously secret information in them and don't act then that's a crime whether you want to admit it or not.

    "Or, how she was supposed to know that an e-mail she received was classified when it wasn't marked as such by the sender"

    Again, what I noted to Mordiggian. If she was too dumb to know that information about satellites and signals is secret then I guess you can plead that she is dumb.

    But if she is that dumb then why should she be the Demo nominee much less Prez?

    As to her not reading them....More nonsense. They were sent to her private email account on her private server. It ain't like she's getting a 100 messages a day trying to sell her something.

    "How do you correct a breach that isn't there at the time and that your agency never considered to be a problem in the first place?"

    Actually the breach was there. She either didn't recognize it or chose to ignore it. And there is no evidence that her agency vetted the emails. There is a distinct possibility that someone on her staff removed the classification so they could send the emails to her over a non secure system. That person will be going to jail if there is any justice left in this world.

    "I don't know, jim; maybe Hillary is dumb.  Maybe she just wasn't as smart as the Republicans...."

    Sorry, anne. Two wrongs do not make a right. The evileeeee Repubs should be tried and put in cells right next to Hillary. They can talk about the good old days.

    Parent

    Weak (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 12:50:42 PM EST
    The problem is that the information was not classified despite the GOP continually saying it was. A number of people including the AP have seen the actual email and can't believe the IG wants to retroactively classify it.

    Really weak analogy Jim. It would only apply if the property wasn't initially stolen but later one someone said it was stolen despite having no facts to back up what they are saying. Hey, according to you I can walk in your house and say that you stole something from me last year.

    I know the wing ding nutty sights are saying that it was classified but they are wrong and even the press is backing off that but I'm sure you're going to continue with your nonsense until the cows come home and you'll move the goalposts again like you always do.

    Parent

    Jim is getting nuttier (none / 0) (#46)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 01:34:12 PM EST
    than a Texas Fruitcake.

    Parent
    The issue is fairly simple. (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 01:42:16 PM EST
    Did someone remove the classification so the email could be sent to a private non secure server?

    Was the information such that someone who is touted to be the smartest woman in the world should have recognized that it should have been classified?

    Let me be blunt. In the real world if someone finds or is given information that they should have known should be classified that person better start screaming or else that person will be in jail.

    And yes, you can walk in my house and say whatever you want. An investigation will follow.

    That's happening now and you are scared spit less.

    Parent

    Your questions (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 02:00:58 PM EST
    Did someone remove the classification so the email could be sent to a private non secure server?

    Nope, all the classification of the info was done after the fact in the ongoing review of the e-mails.  There is no indication that anything considered classified was sent to her, or that anything sent to her was unmarked classified information.

    Was the information such that someone who is touted to be the smartest woman in the world should have recognized that it should have been classified?

    Um, nobody here thinks she's the smartest woman in the world.  There is someone here who is in the running to be considered the dumbest man in the Internet.  Three guesses, and the first two don't count.

    And there is no evidence that she should've recognized the information sent to her was classified at the time. ALL DETERMINATIONS HAVE BEEN MADE AFTER THE FACT.

    Let me be blunt. In the real world if someone finds or is given information that they should have known should be classified that person better start screaming or else that person will be in jail.

    LET ME BE BLUNTER.  ONLY A MORON WHO CAN'T ANSWER WHAT LAW OR LAWS HILLARY CLINTON BROKE BY RECEIVING INFORMATION THAT WAS RETROACTIVELY DETERMINED TO BE CLASSIFIED FOR FOIA PURPORSES WOULD EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY HERE IN THE FUTURE.

    Parent

    Retroactive classification (none / 0) (#52)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 02:09:48 PM EST
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/12/1411268/-Classified-E-mail-in-the-News-Again-This-Time-Hill ary-s#

    Yes, people have been convicted.

    In Hillary's case, the crime would be possession of classified material in a non secure setting,
    A server at her house, or later Platte River, the company that had the server. Neither were approved locations for handling classified material

    Parent

    It (none / 0) (#54)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 02:25:31 PM EST
    was not an unsecured server. It was secured.

    Parent
    Incorrect (2.00 / 1) (#57)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:09:01 PM EST
    If it is proven that any classified information, retroactive or not, is found on the Clinton server, it is a crime.
    Mishandling of classified information,

    Classified information cannot be brought to ones home, and placed upon a server,
    Nor can it be placed with a company , PLatte River, that does not have proper security clearances.

    This is like the never ending story, there are 30k e mails to review, and the FBI is attempting to recover the deleted ones.

    Parent

    If she didn't know there was classified (none / 0) (#58)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:18:11 PM EST
    info on her server, how could she form the mens rea to violate the laws governing the handling of such material in the first place?

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#59)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:23:55 PM EST
    That is why you do not use private e mail or worse, a private server located in your home when you are the Sec of State dealing with sensitive  government operations.

    Parent
    Unresponsive (none / 0) (#60)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:29:57 PM EST
    You would have to show that she knew there was classified information on the server in the first place at the time it was on there.  Unless and until you disprove her claim that she never knowingly received classified information on her server, you haven't got a case against her.  

    You are aware that the Constitution bans ex post facto laws, right?  That's the only way you can go after her, as there has been no proof that any info she received was classified at the time she received it, AFAIK.  If you have different information, now would be the time to reveal it.

    Parent

    Reread the DKos article (none / 0) (#61)
    by TrevorBolder on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:36:57 PM EST
    Retroactive classification has resulted in charges being brought against individuals.

    But we will not settle this here,

    This story has a long way to go,

    And in reading the laws, and the way they have been used,

    Just reveal that any apprehension as to the future  of Hillarys campaign is justified.

    There are 30 k more e mails to review, and potentially the deleted ones.

    It is always good to have a back up plan, especially when planning a Presidential campaign.

    Parent

    God, you guys (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:39:37 PM EST
    are so eager to push her out....

    Just scared she will beat your nominee....

    If she were that damaged, would you not want her to be the nominee so your guy can beat her?

    Parent

    Individuals who did more (none / 0) (#78)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 09:07:00 PM EST
    than passively receive material that they didn't pass on to anyone, as is presumed to be the case with Hillary.  

    Parent
    Everyone (none / 0) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 09:20:12 PM EST
    is forgetting that the FBI has stated that Hillary is not the target of an investigation.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#80)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 06:25:27 AM EST
    Everyone is initially Presumed Innocent.

    That is what a investigation is for.

    Hillary did forward the Blumenthal e mails to other State Dept employees, asking for their input, after 1st eliminating where it came from.

    So, she does forward information.

    Now, to check the next 30k e mails

    Parent

    You still haven't explained (none / 0) (#82)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 07:33:28 AM EST
    how receiving unmarked classified info can be acriminal act.

    Sigh.

    Parent

    You're (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 07:40:14 AM EST
    never going to get an explanation for that because there is none. The DOJ and the FBI both have said she is not the target of an investigation and even conservatives are starting to warn their troops off this story but apparently they are going to proceed. Conservatives have been burned so many times by this stuff but they continue.

    After watching those GOP debates I understand why they are. If I had those candidates I would be obsessing about a phony email scandal too.

    Parent

    I believe in the cases (none / 0) (#55)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 02:39:32 PM EST
    cited in the DK link, the people convicted did more than just passively receive retroactively classified information, as is the case of Hillary.

    Parent
    Most (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by FlJoe on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 02:57:47 PM EST
    if not all of them allegedly took and disseminated information they knew or suspected to be classified. Hillary received info that she was entitled to with the reasonable expectation that none of it was classified and virtually no way to determine if it really was.

    Parent
    Getting a little sweaty, eh?? (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:39:18 PM EST
    "LET ME BE BLUNTER.  ONLY A MORON WHO CAN'T ANSWER WHAT LAW OR LAWS HILLARY CLINTON BROKE BY RECEIVING INFORMATION THAT WAS RETROACTIVELY DETERMINED TO BE CLASSIFIED FOR FOIA PURPORSES WOULD EXPECT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY HERE IN THE FUTURE. "

    Calling me names proves that you aren't capable of discussing anything and that your overall intellect is questionable.

    "Nope, all the classification of the info was done after the fact in the ongoing review of the e-mails.  There is no indication that anything considered classified was sent to her, or that anything sent to her was unmarked classified information."

    Good grief.  

    The number is now sixty.

    And we have every reason to believe that the classification designation was removed.

    Have a nice day and enjoy your hissy fit.

    lol


    Parent

    Jim, you're still not making sense (none / 0) (#63)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 04:47:30 PM EST
    From your link

    Among the first 60 flagged emails, nearly all contained classified secrets at the lowest level of "confidential" and one contained information at the intermediate level of "secret," officials told the Times.

    Yes, they've found 60 e-mails of unmarked material now determined to have various classified statuses.  None of which belies the greater point, that she was not aware of classified info being there at the time she received them.  

    But, sputter and fuss you must.  

    Thanks for revealing that you really have been an empty suit on this issue all along.

    Parent

    The first (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 06:29:35 PM EST
    sentence of that article should undercut everything because it's talking about private email. It wasn't private email. And it's the Moonie Times to boot.

    Jim is screaming. He's having a meltdown. Why bother?

    Parent

    Hillary aint Sgt Shultz (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 07:20:04 PM EST
    And 67% of the Independents say she lied.

    Now the new defense is that she isn't smart enough to know that signal and satellite info is classified...some of it secret...so when she read it she didn't say anything...

    Okie dokie. If that is what you want to claim...

    Parent

    History helps (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:52:29 PM EST
    Gennifer Flowers and Bill's avoiding the Draft;
    Whitewater and Travelgate;
    Reverend Wright;
    Birthers....

    You guys are 0 for 4 in scandal mongering in Presidential races....

    I know Wagtergate Evny runs deep, but remember Watergate only postponed Reagan's win....

    The country has along ago rejected Republican ideas--which are currently some version of cutting taxes for the wealthy, cutting Social Security and Medicare and bombing Iran.

    Republicans have no ideas except the misogyny and racism and xenophobia that Trump gives voice to.

    You lost the culture wars as well.....Time is up on your style and views..

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 01:49:26 PM EST
    this is the latest conspiracy theory being shopped by Fox News.

    Jim everybody else in the intelligence community says that it was a nothingburger but no matter. Out of your desperation you're going to try to continue to flog a dead horse. Even Republican Ross Douhat is trying to let you guys know there's nothing to this whole thing so you won't be let down at the end.

    Of course I understand why you're doing this. You don't have anybody that can win a general election. You have the metrosexual purse dog named Jeb, two guys named Mario and Scott who think women should be turned into birthing slaves for rapists, the loudest buffoon on the planet Trump, and assorted others like Carly who can't even understand basic science even though she touts her running HP into the ground as a great thing.

    Parent

    It doesn't matter (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 05:20:11 PM EST
    as comments here indicate, they will just play move the goal posts.   No email marked classified?  No problem.   From FAUX news-

    The latest revelations about top secret information traversing Hillary Clinton's private email server have triggered accusations that someone in her "inner circle" likely stripped the classification markings, illegally.



    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 06:14:29 PM EST
    everybody knew that Republicans were going to move the goalposts.

    So since she didn't do anything wrong somebody else must have done it.

    It's how it is going to be. Once one is shot down they're going to posit another conspiracy theory.

    They'll play politics with anything even national security if they think it helps them, But hey, it's also the same people that lied to us about Iraq.

    Parent

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, ranking member and ... (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 07:23:59 PM EST
    ... former chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, issued the following statement two days ago:

    "There has been a lot of press coverage recently of allegations regarding Secretary Clinton's email. Unfortunately, much of the coverage has missed key points.

    "First, none of the emails alleged to contain classified information were written by Secretary Clinton.

    "The questions are whether she received emails with classified information in them, and if so, whether information in those emails should have been classified in the first place. Those questions have yet to be answered. However, it is clear that Secretary Clinton did not write emails containing classified information.

    "Second, none of the emails alleged to contain classified information include any markings that indicate classified content.

    "As someone who regularly reviews classified material, I can say that those documents are always clearly marked as containing classified information. Every official who writes classified material, whether in email or on paper, must mark the information as classified. They would also be required to use a separate classified email system to transmit the information. The emails identified did not contain these markings.

    "I understand the State Department Inspector General is conducting a broader review of the email practices of the past five Secretaries of State and their senior staff, and I will review those findings when they are completed." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Interesting information (none / 0) (#76)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:59:22 PM EST
    Without real facts this controversy will flame out too.

    Parent
    Nice parsing (none / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Aug 15, 2015 at 10:35:45 PM EST
    but the point is that it wasn't marked classified...not that the contents weren't classified...

    Now the race begins. The FBI can trace the email and ID who sent it.

    And the contents contained info re drones and/or satellite...If Hillary, or anyone in government at her level, didn't know that was classified that person is stupid.

    Parent

    Discussing (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 05:50:21 AM EST
    a news article about drones? The IG is trying to break the law here and most of the intelligence community thinks he's full of bunk.

    Jim, even Fox news has moved past what you are saying.

    Parent

    From the (none / 0) (#53)
    by FlJoe on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 02:18:55 PM EST
    AP Article
    Neither of the two emails sent to Hillary Rodham Clinton now labeled by intelligence agencies as "top secret" contained information that would jump out to experts as particularly sensitive, according to several government officials.
    and
    Clinton didn't transmit the sensitive information herself, they said, and nothing in the emails she received makes direct reference to communications intercepts, confidential intelligence methods or any other form of sensitive sourcing.
      and
    Nothing in the message is "lifted" from classified documents, they said,
    In other words there are no apparent signs that the contents could or should be classified. Even the experts can't agree after months of analysis.  

    Parent
    Experts who remain anomous (none / 0) (#69)
    by ragebot on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:14:14 PM EST
    say the information was possibly over classified, but the article goes on to say those same experts would not discuss what was in the emails because it might really be secret.

    What's wrong with this picture.

    Parent

    Nothing (none / 0) (#71)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:37:18 PM EST
    The answer is self-evident.

    Just being risk averse....even if the classification is wrong, why risk trouble?

    Why is this so hard?

    Parent

    First, you provide no links (none / 0) (#44)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 12:55:14 PM EST
    Secondly the info I have is there are 4 out of 40 with thousands left to be looked at.

    But since I doubt you'll provide the link, let's review:

    ...separate conversation that could point back to highly classified material in an improper manner or merely reflect information collected independently, U.S. officials who have reviewed the correspondence told The Associated Press.

    You see, that's why you don't talk about classified information over non-secure networks. Intelligence collection consists largely over smart people collecting bits  of information to make a whole and "the dog that did not bark" tells as much as the one that did.

    You want to prosecute (none / 0) (#47)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 01:35:44 PM EST
    On the basis of could?

    Thanks for showing how little you really understand about this case, Jim.

    Parent

    Bottom line is (none / 0) (#68)
    by ragebot on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:10:37 PM EST
    Prosecutorial discretion is probably the most important consideration in many security matters.  As several folks have pointed out there have been cases where folks have, and have not, been charged for doing things similar to what Hillary did.

    But it should be clear by now that what ever the result of the investigation Hillary has taken a hit in the polls.

    My best guess is this drama is not over.  Three (according to some) classified emails have morphed in to (according to some) sixty classified email and there is every reason to think that sixty will only grow.

    My money is still on Hillary not making it to the general.

    Republicans may be predicting (none / 0) (#70)
    by MKS on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:36:20 PM EST
    and hoping for that result....

    I don't see Democrats saying that.....

    Wishful thinking?

    Parent

    They (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:39:38 PM EST
    certainly are hoping and wishing for her to be taken down.

    Of course if I had their lineup I would be wishing for the same exact thing.

    Parent

    The 60 (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 16, 2015 at 08:37:52 PM EST
    is apparently coming from a not reliable source but if you want to go with that then go ahead. It's your right.

    The media has been walking back this story now and so it may die or it may not.

    Anyway once she gets to the general and the voters get a look at the Republicans I don't think she has too much to worry about.

    link Even conservatives are starting to warn their base that nothing is going to come of it. So there's a key for you.

    Parent

    Looks like it is 305 (none / 0) (#108)
    by ragebot on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 01:56:07 PM EST
    not 60.

    At least according to this link

    Whatever the number (which is just over 5% of the emails so far examined) it is likely to grow.

    Maybe more of interest is this claim by ABC that there may well be a back up of the server Hillary ordered wiped clean by the best cleaners in the business.  That cover up may turn out to be a waste of time, effort, and money if there is a backup server.

    ABC link

    Wondering if Ga6thDem has a link to the claim that the media is walking back the 60 number?  Enquiring minds want to know.

    Parent

    That's (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:53:47 PM EST
    not ABC it's the Moonie times again.

    Perhaps you should read this before posting another link to the Moonies times and their shopping of conspiracy theories.

    Parent

    300 (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:58:15 PM EST
    Gave been "flagged for review".  That does not mean there IS classified information in them.  That number could climb to 1500 out of the 30,000.  But that's based on things like key word searches, and doors not mean those docs actually ARE classified.

    Parent
    So...when will they be investigating the (none / 0) (#112)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:28:20 PM EST
    sources for these e-mails?  We know that Clinton received these e-mails, but no one seems to be too worried about the loose fingers that were letting all this so-called classified information fly straight to Clinton's In Box.

    Nor has anyone ever gotten his or her panties all in a knot over the ongoing, endless leaking of classified information by the so-called intelligence community and government sources, when doing so suits those who are leaking it.  I don't recall any big hoo-ha over all that, but it continues to this day.

    What I know is that if Clinton hadn't wiped the server, there'd be people flapping their arms like psychotic chickens over the existence of a server with unprotected materials on it.  And of course, because it's Clinton, it has to be all about covering up, committing crimes, plotting and scheming...it couldn't possibly be about not wanting or feeling there was a need for the world to know the details of her daughter's wedding plans, or the particulars of planning her mother's funeral, or any of the kinds of truly personal communications for which people use e-mail, because this is Hillary Clinton and there's never a rational explanation for anything, ever.

    The State Department's servers got hacked.  Look at what happened at OPM.  Look at the millions of people whose personal information has been breached.  Why is anyone all up in arms over Clinton's server - which there is no evidence has ever been hacked - when the government's own servers are about as secure as a sieve?

    This is about as dead a horse as it is possible for it to be, but I guess people are just going to beat on it until it is little more than a grease stain and y'all are covered in decaying flesh and black flies.

    Have fun; enjoy the drama.

    Get a freakin' life.

    Parent

    Actually (none / 0) (#116)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 02:45:10 PM EST
    Hillary is not the target of an investigation. there is someone else who they are looking at according to the NYT. Perhaps Trey Gowdy will be getting indicted soon.

    Parent
    I know she's not the target, but when (none / 0) (#120)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 03:07:12 PM EST
    did that make any difference to Republicans?  When has it ever made any difference?

    But you can be sure that if one of their own is in the investigative cross-hairs, this whole thing will disappear faster than you can say, "it's okay if you're a Republican."

    Parent

    Oh, (none / 0) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 03:13:17 PM EST
    I know but they are incredibly desperate and grabbing onto a routine email review.

    Look no further than the Bush Administration using a private secret email server that was under a subpoena in a criminal investigation. Hillary's wasn't secret and she handed hers in. Yes, I know it's always it's okay if you're a Republican. Lying us into a war? Fine. Collapsing the economy? Fine.

    The good news is the majority of Americans detest the GOP as much as you and I do and this email thing just shows one of the reason why they are so despised.

    Parent

    Not the Target (none / 0) (#132)
    by TrevorBolder on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 05:15:07 PM EST
    I believe the FBI has stated Clinton is not the target,
    I believe they are focusing on exactly what you are asking
    The source of the e mail
    From there, question the individual, where did they get the information to begin with
    A cable?, Conversation
    This is now a full blown Federal Investigation, dealing with classified information
    I doubt, and hope , that they will not leave any stone unturned.
    People in the State Department must be feeling real queasy about now.  

    Parent
    The poll scares you, eh?? (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 08:47:15 AM EST
    It should.

    And you provide the evidence. You claim she didn't know that the email should have been classified...even though it contained info about satellites, drones, signal intercepts....

    So again. Your latest defense is that she was too dumb to know....

    Let's see how that will play in Peoria.

    one more time (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 09:29:04 AM EST
    nothing in the emails she received makes direct reference to communications intercepts, confidential intelligence methods or any other form of sensitive sourcing.

    Every single report on this issue contains such caveats.

    Your continued attacks proves who the "dumb" one is.

    Parent

    Nope, this far out (none / 0) (#86)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 09:02:52 AM EST
    from the 2008 election, Obama was behind Hillary, so polls at this time have little, if any, predictive value.

    However, your own nervousness at your lack of success in convincing anyone else here of your delusions is quite revealing.

    And, yes, there is no way she could have known that referring to a newspaper report of a drone attack was classified.

    LOL!

    Parent

    Nixon (none / 0) (#90)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 10:06:50 AM EST
    Interesting, I notice Bob Woodward has started this Nixon comparison the last couple days, most recently this morning on Scarborough.

    Another example why Woodward should be renting beach umbrellas in Ocean City, MD.

    Interesting (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 10:10:53 AM EST
    that the GOP wants to bring up memories of some of their most disastrous presidents named Bush and Nixon. Do they really want to drive more people out of the GOP by dredging up their own disasters? He seems to be inadvertently doing the work for democrats with that kind of thing. LOL.

    Parent
    not a coincidence (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 01:09:32 PM EST
    I don't think that it is a coincidence that Nixon's name and crimes seem to be popping up with increasing regularity in connection with Clinton and the emails.  The fact that they have enlisted Bob Woodward in this game now suggests to me that a "memo" went out.

    Most current wingnuts do not defend Nixon.  It's been so long ago, when they look at Nixon they don't see themselves in the mirror.  As you can see, jim here has no problem talking negatively about Nixon.  Nixon was a past master at the rat f*k, which is what they're doing right now to Clinton.

    Bottom line, Bob Woodward has destroyed any shred of dignity he had remaining by pumping the Nixon comparisons.  He is just shooting his mouth off without even a superficial grasp of the facts.

    Parent

    Woodward sold out long ago (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by MKS on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 01:43:15 PM EST
    Woodward dragging (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by ding7777 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 03:37:54 PM EST
    Nixon and the 18 1/2 minute tape erasure into it is the Republican propaganda setup for when the FBI says the server is completely erased

    Parent
    it get's worse (none / 0) (#125)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 03:53:54 PM EST
    Not only did Woodward drag the 18 1/2 minute gap into this, he actually said this morning on Scarborough that he would "love to get [his] hands" on Secretary Clinton's deleted personal emails, so that he could go through them one by one to determine what kind of a person she is.  This goes beyond the pale.

    And not a single person sitting around that table so much as batted an eye when he said it.

    Parent

    Haha (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 04:01:25 PM EST
    well that actually helps Clinton because it bears it out that what they really want to do is some rifling of underwear drawers.

    Honest to God the sexism is just terrible. These pundits and some of the conservatives that hang around here sound like they won't be happy unless she's gang raped and her throat slit and thrown by the side of the road. Don't deal in facts, just shop conspiracy theories. No decent minded person in this country is going to vote for a party run by creeps like that.

    Parent

    well (none / 0) (#135)
    by mm on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 06:03:31 PM EST
    I have to say, you're a lot more sanguine about this than I am.

    There seems to be some powerful forces aligning with the single purpose of destroying the viability of Hillary Clinton's campaign.

    Parent

    Definitely (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 06:06:21 PM EST
    are some powerful people who do not want her to win the presidential election. However, they tried the same thing with Bill and it didn't work. On and on they went about Whitewater, draft and everything. People tend to forget all that these days.

    Parent
    CNN (none / 0) (#139)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 06:41:28 PM EST
    is surely flogging the hell out of it, the MSM will not let it go. It is definitely hurting her and will continue to hurt her in the short term because of the feckless press. The long term outlook looks better, if the FBI does an expedited investigation, as well they should given the circumstances, it will all be exposed as a the latest Clinton scandal nothingburger before the first primaries.

    Parent
    Hillary reminds me very much of Nixon (none / 0) (#102)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 12:48:54 PM EST
    a long history of hushed up scandals...enough arrogance to put Marie Antoinette to shame and an overwhelming fear of people she can't control..

    Parent
    What scandals that had any proven (none / 0) (#195)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 08:19:53 PM EST
    basis in fact were "hushed up"?

    And hushed up by whom?

    If I may have the effrontery to ask..

    Parent

    The hushed-up scandels bit (none / 0) (#196)
    by jondee on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 08:42:51 PM EST
    is just more far right wing conspiracy theorizing..

    Vince Foster..Benghazi..E Mails..

    Parent

    She made $100K in 1 year (none / 0) (#205)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 08:40:16 PM EST
    trading commodities and then stopped....???

    Really?? That wasn't rigged?

    And then there was Travelgate....lol...

    ITM Trump is gaining on her.

    Parent

    ??? lol! (none / 0) (#206)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 09:08:59 PM EST
    Rigged by who, pray tell? The evilee liberal cabal out to undermine all our traditional values?

    Parent
    I'm not afraid of being in time-out (none / 0) (#93)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 10:12:22 AM EST
    And since he's already questioned people's patriotism, thinking, etc, he can't get on his high horse and demand he not be treated as he has treated others here.

    Good, because as of now, you are in (none / 0) (#192)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 06:28:29 PM EST
    timeout. Come back in a few days if you want. You may need to email me and remind me.

    Parent
    Ok (none / 0) (#141)
    by FlJoe on Mon Aug 17, 2015 at 07:43:19 PM EST
    I am sure you will agree about demanding to see the details about Cheney's "energy summit" or the 27 redacted pages from the Senate 9/11 report. I presume you were first in line demanding criminal charges for the millions of emails that disappeared from the Bush White House.

    They all promise transparency but they never deliver, probably impossible anyway.

    FOIA (none / 0) (#156)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 06:14:46 AM EST
    So, you don't care about government obstruction?

    Granted, at each individual occurrence, one might feel one is MORE Important than another,

    But in the end, obstruction of FOIA requests is a assault on democracy

    Parent

    And the IG (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 06:29:31 AM EST
    that people like you are supporting is keeping FOIA requests from being filled. His whole goal of retroactively classifying things is so that FOIA requests cannot be filled. He's not even following the law.

    Parent
    Obstructing, Assualt on Democracy (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by vicndabx on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 09:53:25 AM EST
    State has repeatedly said it is overwhelmed with FOIA requests.

    You ready to pony up some more tax dollars so State can improve its archiving systems and higher more staff?

    The irony is you talk of democracy and yet here you are convicting and assuming crimes occurred w/nary a thread of evidence let alone completion of any investigations.

    Parent

    Lol (none / 0) (#188)
    by TrevorBolder on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 05:06:40 PM EST
    I haven't convicted anyone.

    Just saying it does not look good

    And that people in the State Dept should be very nervous

    For a multitude of reasons

    Parent

    trevor (none / 0) (#193)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Aug 18, 2015 at 06:50:23 PM EST
    your comments with long links not in html format have been deleted. URLs are not allowed here unless they are in html format. They skew the site because we have narrow margins. Please read the comment rules. Use the link button at the top of the comment box to include a url.

    Parent
    From the Daily Mail: (none / 0) (#200)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 12:05:24 PM EST
    Trump predicts Hillary could get 'up to 20 years in prison' for deleting more than 30,000 emails - and a federal law that she voted for backs him up!

    The article includes a TIMELINE: THE CLINTON EMAIL SAGA

    Hillary says she did not send or receive any "Classified" information by her email.

    ZThen how was "Classified" information sent and received?

    Does she want us to believe that she is the  first Secretary of State in history to never receive and/or send "Classified" information in any way, shape or form in her 4 years in office?

    Is she trying to claim that she never generated anything worthy of the "Classified" marking"?

    If she did see "Classified" documents, then what medium did she use to send and receive them?

    If not email, then what?

    Was it snail mail? Fed Ex? telegraph? Pony Express?? carrier pigeon? hand-written notes carried by barefoot runners?

    Inquiring minds would like to know --

    The State Department (none / 0) (#203)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 19, 2015 at 03:03:50 PM EST
    has a separate secure system for the transmission of classified material. The transmission of classified documents is not allowed over a .gov system.  Everybody is supposed to know that, and given that the information in question was generated, transmitted and circulated through lower levels before being forwarded to Hillary would have no culpability in any malfeasance that occurred.
     

    Parent
    Clinton's classified data (none / 0) (#207)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Aug 20, 2015 at 09:08:35 AM EST
    The problem with your answer is the court filing of State Department Executive Secretary Joseph McManus in which he told the Federal District Court for the District of Columbia on Wednesday that his agency never issued a Blackberry or any other personal computing device to Mrs Clinton.

    Without a State Department issued device Mrs Clinton would have had no secured access to the State Department's secured servers.

    Perhaps Mr McManus needs another filing to address that issue.

    Parent

    Yes, she could have (none / 0) (#208)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 20, 2015 at 09:26:52 AM EST
    She could have gotten a token to get access.  It isn't that uncommon.

    I am a contractor at a government agency.  I can work from home using the laptop provided to me by the agency, or I can use my personal computer with an RSA token. No, I don't have the clearance HRC had, but with regards to secured network access, you are completely misinformed.

    Parent

    token (none / 0) (#209)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Aug 20, 2015 at 09:55:39 AM EST
    She could have gotten a token to get access

    But there would be a record of that "token" at the State Department, right?

    Her aides get secure SD issued Blackberries and she, the SoS, opts for a "token".

    What's wrong with that picture?

    Parent

    I don't think you understand (none / 0) (#210)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 20, 2015 at 01:59:55 PM EST
    what you're talking about (big surprise - not).

    I have an RSA device that allows me to securely access my firm's network from off-site locations; this is neither unusual nor does my use of it carry any negative assumptions or inferences.


    Parent

    state.gov (1.00 / 1) (#211)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Aug 20, 2015 at 03:50:09 PM EST
    So then when the Executive Secretary of the State Department confirmed to the court that:

    [f]ormer Secretary of State Hillary Clinton did not use a state.gov account.

    Did he mean all "state.gov" accounts -- the secured and unsecured ones? or just the unsecured ones?


    Parent

    It means her email address (none / 0) (#212)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 20, 2015 at 04:32:28 PM EST
    Did not end in state.Gov.

    Parent
    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#214)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Feb 22, 2019 at 10:45:59 AM EST