Monday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 12:18:40 PM EST
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Former Attorney General Janet Reno has died at age 78 from complications from Parkinsons' Disease.

Trump's staff has finally taken his Twitter account away from him. (It's too late.)

Find your voting place.

America deserves better than Donald Trump. Go Vote. [More...]

Great photo of Beyonce "pantsuiting up" for Hillary.

36 hours from now Trump will be a bitter, rejected man. He will claim (in his quiet voice at first) that the election was rigged. Then he'll grow louder and act like he won.

48 hours from now, after the campaign obituaries have run their course, we can get back to being the country we have always been and were meant to be. With an experienced, deserving, charismatic, supremely qualified woman as our President and Commander in Chief.

A week from now, Trump's hate machine will be just a memory of a very bad dream.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Trump Supporter's Racist Rant Goes Viral | The Final Night: Bruce, Bon Jovi, Obamas and Hillary In Philly >

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Monday Open Thread | 55 comments (55 topical)

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America deserves better than either of them. (5.00 / 2) (#4)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 01:18:12 PM EST

I was thinking... (5.00 / 2) (#6)
by kdog on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 01:38:06 PM EST

an argument can be made for "deserving" either one.

Is our karma bad or is it really really bad? Tune in Wednesday morning for the answer.


: I look at it as.. (5.00 / 3) (#22)
by ruffian on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:32:17 PM EST

Even America deserves better than Donald Trump.

: Ha! Didn't think of it that way, but I see (none / 0) (#11)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:17:26 PM EST

your point.

Speak for yourself (5.00 / 7) (#7)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:02:30 PM EST

What a ridiculous, false equivalency. She is eminently qualified and a great candidate, although I can't blame you for being embarrassed by your party's candidate.


Agreed. (5.00 / 5) (#10)
by KeysDan on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:16:03 PM EST

The false equivalency: Both the same, just CocaCola v Pepsi. But, it is really: CocaCola v Sewer Water. And, it is not difficult to note that Trump is the guy colored by the tannery effluent.


We can deserve better than both... (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by kdog on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:32:23 PM EST

without both being equivalent.

Say one is soda and one raw sewage, I like that analogy. One kills you slow, one kills you quick...neither is water.


Problem with the analogy (none / 0) (#13)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:38:38 PM EST

Soda being bad for you is a fact. Your issues with Clinton and your conclusion that she will just "kill you slow" (metaphorically speaking) is just your opinion. "We" do not share your opinion.


Speak for yourself...;) (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by kdog on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:51:27 PM EST

Oh that's right, we are all speaking for ourselves. Unless you're a paid spokesperson.


Good to know (none / 0) (#20)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:11:34 PM EST

Since the original comment was that "America" deserves better than either candidate and your response was about what "we" deserve. It's really just him and you.


Actually, the original comment was: (5.00 / 2) (#26)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:44:53 PM EST

"America deserves better than Donald Trump."

I understood that J was voicing her opinion, and it appears you also have opinions.

Well, this as as good a place to share them as any.


Is it? (5.00 / 2) (#33)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 06:19:53 PM EST

You realize this is a Democratic blog supporting the Democratic candidate, right?

IMO, your opinion that "America" deserved better than both candidates is ridiculous. I understand why you would be embarrassed by your party's choice of candidate. IMO, that's rational based on what he's said and done. She's not. The fact that you Republicans have CDS that causes you to resort to these silly, false-equivalencies is your problem to deal with.

Good luck with that.


: Your opinion is duly noted. (none / 0) (#43)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 08:54:08 PM EST

It's the standard Republican (none / 0) (#17)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:55:09 PM EST

response. They can't admit they chose such an abysmal candidate that they have to drag Hillary down too.


Well, Trump (none / 0) (#19)
by KeysDan on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:06:51 PM EST

is a mess, but he will be surrounded by the best of the best. Reports are that Rudy Giuliani is slated for Attorney General and Newt Gingrich for Secretary of State in a Trump Administration. Reince Priebus for Chief of Staff. No word on Christie, not even as Sec of Transportation.


Logical falacy. (none / 0) (#25)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:39:15 PM EST

If not for Trump, those who do not support Clinton would think she's the bee's knees.


Who said THAT? (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 06:21:02 PM EST

Of course they wouldn't.

CDS makes conservatives and most Republicans irrational.


Your opinion is duly noted. Again. (none / 0) (#44)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 08:55:39 PM EST

: Stating the obvious (none / 0) (#45)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 09:10:49 PM EST

Again.

No, but it would be the same (none / 0) (#32)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 06:00:24 PM EST

story with any other Republican. I know Republicans don't like Hillary and never have and never will but unless they change they are dying off. Trump beat out 16 other Republicans to get the nomination. The party is diseased and infested with misogyny and racism. Even Republican women have been appalled at what elected Republican officials have said.


David Dayen's 'Chain of Title' (5.00 / 3) (#24)
by ruffian on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:38:43 PM EST

I am almost done with the audio book. He is so thorough in documenting the atrocities of the ongoing housing crisis/foreclosure fraud debacle.

Good lord it is infuriating. I need a nice relaxing murder mystery after this.

100 years ago today ... (5.00 / 3) (#27)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 04:41:53 PM EST

... on November 7, 1916 -- six years before passage and ratification of the 9th Amendment -- voters in the State of Montana made history by electing suffragist Jeannette Rankin to the U.S. House of Representatives, and the former social worker became the very first woman to serve in Congress. Tomorrow, we're finally poised to take the next step:

"I think we can all agree, it's been a long campaign. But tomorrow, you get to pick our next president. So here are a few things I hope you'll think about. First, it's not just my name and my opponent's name on the ballot. It's the kind of country we want for our children and grandchildren. Is America dark and divisive, or hopeful and inclusive? [...] So tonight, I'm asking for your vote. And tomorrow, let's make history together."
- Hillary Clinton, Democratic presidential nominee (November 7, 2016)

Please vote tomorrow. It's important.

I enjoy showing students the photo (none / 0) (#46)
by Towanda on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 10:57:59 PM EST

of Congresswoman Rankin giving the traditional "maiden speech" (as you know, the term is used for the men, too) not in the traditional site of the floor of the House but, instead, in the streets of DC from the balcony of the National Woman's Party headquarters. (It's still there, worth a visit.)

Yes, of course, Rankin was an ardent suffragist.

And then, when we get to the 1960s, students see Rankin again -- then in her eighties -- in the streets of DC, marching at the forefront of the first antiwar march in Washington in that era. At the forefront of the antiwar women who, in recognition of Rankin as the only member of Congress to vote against two wars, named their organization the Jeannette Rankin Brigade.

The brigade marches to the polls tomorrow, for all of our foremothers who could not do so.


My grandmother proudly told me (none / 0) (#50)
by Peter G on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 10:29:01 AM EST

how she marched in New York City with Jeannette Rankin for votes for women in 1918 (when my grandmother would have been about 10 years old!). (I'm not saying that what she told me was true; that side of my family has a tendency to tell good stories, regardless.) As a college student, I was at an antiwar conference Rankin attended in 1969, although sadly I cannot remember having met her.


: My mistake, in 1918 my grandmother (none / 0) (#51)
by Peter G on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 10:30:26 AM EST

would have been about 20, which makes the story more likely true, but even then, not necessarily.

Rankin's quip about ... (none / 0) (#52)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 10:44:34 AM EST

... no more being able to win a war than win an earthquake remains one of the best snap antiwar statements ever, in my estimation.


Oops! Big mistake for this historian! (none / 0) (#55)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 11:22:31 AM EST

Given that the 19th Amendment was ratified in 1920 and not 1922, Jeanette Rankin was actually elected to the U.S. House four years before that, rather than six.

When writing, I had deleted the part of my comment in which I was going to note that Montana had earlier enacted women's suffrage in 1914. It was that particular event, and not Ms. Rankin's subsequent election to Congress, which took place six years prior to passage of the 19th Amendment, and I somehow failed to make the corresponding change in text during my final edit.

My bad.


If high voter turnout is bad news for the GOP, ... (5.00 / 3) (#30)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 05:40:43 PM EST

... then Republicans have to be soiling themselves over the early voting numbers coming in not just from battleground states, but also from Democratic urban areas in "blue states" such as Los Angeles and Chicago, places where most people are thinking that the outcome has already been decided.

The Secretary of State's office in Sacramento says that a record 19.4 million Californians are now registered to vote in advance of tomorrow's general election, and has further reported that record numbers have already voted early in L.A., defying its reputation for low turnouts:

"After polls opened at 8 a.m. Sunday, long lines were reported in North Hollywood, West Covina, Culver City, Downey and Torrance. At midday, the polling places were clogged with people who had already filled out their ballots but were waiting in line to personally hand them in and collect their 'I Voted' sticker.

"In Orange County, early ballots were being filled out at Anaheim, Costa Mesa, Irvine Civic Center, UC Irvine, Mission Viejo, Santa Ana and Westminster. Voters could also stay in their cars and hand ballots to workers at the Irvine Civic Center, Mission Viejo and Santa Ana locations."

Of the surge in Latinos to the polls, about 35% of them are thought to be "low-propensity" or first-time voters. The overall Latino vote is estimated to break 6-to-1 for Hillary Clinton.

This has enormous implications is states such as Florida, Texas, Arizona, Nevada and California, with their large Hispanic populations. In Arizona's Maricopa County, where combative right-wing Sheriff Joe Arpaio is running for re-election and the Latino population has increased 23% since 2005, the incumbent has been trailing his challenger by a consistent double-digit margin in local polls.

It would indeed by ironic and altogether fitting if Latinos, who've long been disparaged by Trump and the Republicans, wind up being the ones who send these guys packing.

Aloha.

As you can imagine, Armando (none / 0) (#47)
by Towanda on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 10:58:43 PM EST

has been pointing this out, on Twitter, with glee.


: I've really cut back on following BTD, ... (5.00 / 2) (#53)
by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 11:03:44 AM EST

... though not completely. But the other day, as he and another tweeter were literally telling one another to fck off, I decided that I had had enough for awhile. Twitter, to me at least, is far more conducive to flamethrowing than actual debate and in that regard, Armando excels at that.
Then again, so do I, which is why I really need to stay away from Twitter. There are too many pundits such as WaPo's Chris Cillizza and NBC's Chuck Todd, whose insipid tweets serve only to highlight the "Twit" in Twitter. They pose as all too tempting targets for ridicule -- and to someone like me, that's like waving a red cape in front an ornery bull.
;-D

Wish I could be in Philly (5.00 / 1) (#37)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 07:26:07 PM EST

Tonight with my son. Historic

My husband can't handle being in a crowd that big anymore

But Josh and I would have the time of our lives, and we'd text pictures home.

: Our youngest was there, with her girlfriend (5.00 / 1) (#42)
by Peter G on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 08:44:55 PM EST

and we watched on C-Span. We were warmer.

Nancy Pelosi will vote yes on (5.00 / 2) (#38)
by caseyOR on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 07:30:24 PM EST

California's ballot measure to legalize marijuana. This alone will not change federal policy, but every politician who goes public as supporting legalization is a move in the right direction.

: I was a little frustrated hearing Obama (none / 0) (#39)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 07:36:21 PM EST

Discuss the issue with Maher. It could have been HW Bush or John McCain when he was saner delivering the Obama response to federally legalizing marijuana.

Good graphic (none / 0) (#1)
by Peter G on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 12:25:08 PM EST

Glad to see the back of him (as they say in Ireland).

I hope after (none / 0) (#2)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 12:47:37 PM EST

a week we forget about it but maybe forgetting about it isn't a good thing. Donald has brought the ugly American to the forefront and what do we do about it if anything? I guess realistically it's the GOP's problem and they are the ones that are going to have to deal with it.

I do hope (none / 0) (#3)
by mogal on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 01:05:17 PM EST

you are right. Tomorrow could be a long day.

My ad hoc survey of a large group of millenials (none / 0) (#5)
by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 01:34:41 PM EST

shows most voting for Clinton. Some won't vote. Some say their heart belongs to Bernie, but Bernie being gone and Trump being what he is leaves them no choice. Some of them like Stein and Johnson but they seem to realize that a third party vote would effectively be a vote for Trump.

I can't quantify, but this is a change from a couple of weeks ago.

Some Bernie (5.00 / 4) (#15)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:53:13 PM EST

supporters might like the idea that Bernie likely will move up to a leadership position.


I wasn't a Bernie supporter (5.00 / 5) (#28)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 04:57:38 PM EST

But I hope for this outcome. It's appropriate, the leftwing of the leftwing deserves and needs a voice in a position of power.

We lost Wellstone, Kennedy, and even Murtha on military issues. And then Weiner had to go and be such an out of control Weiner :)

I need someone from the leftwing of the leftwing wielding cantankerous up there. It's vital to the health of the democracy.


: Damn right we need the Left.. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by jondee on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 11:04:15 AM EST

having a prominent public voice..
Right now we're in serious danger of having wild-swinging, divisive, "populist" demagogues like Trump hijacking the hearts and minds of the working class the way the Right has already hijacked so much of the American spiritual community..
It's not enough for the Hillary's and Obamas of the world to evoke "the vanishing middle class" and "the health of the middle class" over and over and over again while leaving it to us to mentally fill in all the blanks in regards to the specifics..

If Democrats gain control of the Senate, ... (5.00 / 3) (#31)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 05:44:50 PM EST

... Bernie Sanders is reportedly in line to become Chair of the powerful and influential Senate Committee on the Budget.


im a bernie supporter (none / 0) (#40)
by linea on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 08:04:04 PM EST

and so are all my freinds. but everyone i know mailed in their ballots for hillary.


Not sure what "change" (none / 0) (#8)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:07:32 PM EST

... you're claiming, but it doesn't really matter. Anecdotal stories are meaningless.


Perhaps... (5.00 / 1) (#18)
by kdog on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:55:17 PM EST

but I find the community's anecdotals interesting.

In my clans final straw poll we have 2 Republicans for Trump, 2 Republicans for Clinton, 2 Democrats for Clinton, 2 Democrats for other, and 1 Independent for other.


So 2 sane and intellgent people (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by Towanda on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 11:03:42 PM EST

and a few bitter fools, and the rest are those people in our families who give us reason to go away for holidays, rather than let them ruin those like they want to ruin the country.


: Actually... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by kdog on Tue Nov 08, 2016 at 06:32:46 AM EST

the lot is fairly intelligent...our saneness is up for debate;)

I talk to real people. (none / 0) (#29)
by Mr Natural on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 05:12:15 PM EST

You talk to yourself.


: I talk to real people ... (none / 0) (#35)
by Yman on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 06:22:29 PM EST

Most of whom know that anecdotal stories are worthless.
But I can't blame you for dodging the question.

Does she take Iowa or Ohio? (none / 0) (#9)
by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:15:15 PM EST

Not that she needs them. But she deserves them and they her.

Ohio (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 02:53:39 PM EST

seems to be trending away from Trump. We shall see.


I seriously doubt she gets Iowa. (5.00 / 2) (#21)
by caseyOR on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:19:48 PM EST

It is a very fundamentalist Christian, rightwing conservative, overwhelmingly white state. Not Clinton's best demographics.

I do hope this election is the last one that sees Iowa and New Hampshire with such outsized influence on the primary.


: Ditto ditto ditto (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by ruffian on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 03:34:07 PM EST

there is no reason in the world for Iowa or NH to play such a key role. They are in no way representative of the country, and the citizens are no longer any better informed than anyone else, if they ever were.

In case J missed Jon Bon Jovi in Philly tonight (none / 0) (#36)
by CoralGables on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 07:18:25 PM EST

He will be on stage again later tonight at Hillary's final campaign stop in Raleigh, NC at midnight on C-Span.

For those wanting to see the Boss, he's on C-Span now from Philly.

: Lady Gaga will join them in Raleigh, NC, ... (none / 0) (#41)
by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 07, 2016 at 08:39:38 PM EST

... according to reports I heard earlier today.