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Thousands Protest Trump Around the Country

Thousands are in the streets protesting Donald Trump.

Thousands of protesters swarmed the streets of several major cities Wednesday to voice their opposition to Donald Trump, who less than 24 hours earlier stunned the world in a upset victory to become the 45th person elected president of the United States.

Chanting "Not my president" and "F--- Trump," the scene outside Trump International Hotel & Tower in Chicago felt like a grand uprising — one where minority groups who have felt targeted by Donald Trump over the past eighteen months hoped to send a direct message to the president-elect.

[More...]

Protesters took to the streets in "Washington, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Boston, Austin, Seattle, Portland, Ore., Oakland, Calif., Richmond and elsewhere."

Good for them. Maybe the time is right for a real revolution (not the faux Bernie Sanders kind.)

My generation is admittedly way too old. The only thing I can fight with is my keyboard. But many of the rest of you aren't:

One generation got old
One generation got soul
This generation got no destination to hold
...Hey, now it's time for you and me
Got a revolution,got to revolution

Unity and compromise are way over-rated. Especially when it comes to freedom and civil liberties, human rights and constitutional rights. It's a shame that angry Trump supporters are so under-informed they can't realize that liberty is a far more precious commodity than money, and with Trump and the likes of Giuliani and Gingrich at the helm, danger is at their doorstep.

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  • Display: Sort:
    What is a real revolution? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Michael Masinter on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 09:55:08 PM EST
    I went to Airplane shows in the mid sixties many times. I still love the music, but who is kidding whom? I don't want my children to shout "Up against the wall motherf*cker" to heavily armed police, let alone right wing militias or national guard troops; if they do, those will likely be their last words no matter how well armed they are. If we're to have a better future, we won't create it by threatening violence. Just ask Kathy Boudin.


    who said anything about violence? (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 11:04:13 PM EST
    Street protests can and should be peaceful.

    I linked to what I meant by a "real revolution" and used it to describe why Bernie Sanders' use of the term was fake to me.

    Almost by definition, a revolutionary rejects and wants to overthrow a system of government, not join and lead it. Bernie isn't calling for the destruction of the two party system or Congress. He wants to bring change from within. That's not revolution.

    ...My point is, Sanders is not a modern-day revolutionary. He's not revolutionary at all. He is an idealist with the right position on political issues, who is to be credited for forcing the media and politicians to take the left more seriously this primary season. But he will be no more successful in the long run than Eugene McCarthy, George McGovern, Jesse Jackson or Ralph Nader because the majority of Americans still do not embrace such views.

    In that post I also linked to this article, "What do the Zapatistas and Bernie Sanders have in common? Hint: Not a Revolution"

    Whist reflecting on the Zapatistas revolution, in April of 2015, the Zapatistas clarified the distinction, in a world-wide communiqué, between revolutionary change and voting in mainstream elections: "Because it's the same thing among all those who want a political position, regardless of whether they dress up red, or sometimes in blue, or sometimes they put on a new color. And then they say they are the people and that therefore, the people have to support them. But they aren't of the people. They're the same bad governments who one day are local representatives, and the next are union leaders, then they are party functionaries . . . bouncing from one position to another, and also from one color to another."

    Yes, Sanders has raised a lot of money. Yes, Sanders' rhetoric is persuasive. As a scholar of Communication Studies, I teach my students the power of persuasion. I teach them the devices and appeals to persuade. However, I also teach my students that we must be critical consumers of discourse. When striving to become members of a critical public, we must not be persuaded simply by style or word choice, but instead, we must critically scrutinize the effects and meanings of the persuasive appeals. Therefore, in the current rhetorical situation, an appropriate question that the dominant media is not asking is: does Sanders' rhetoric of anti-establishment and revolution match up with the material reality? Yes, people are "feeling the Bern." But they are feeling the "burn" of a traditional established politician, operating within a mainstream political system, with all of the mainstream political constraints for change--not a "burn" of a radical political revolution. For that, you'd have to visit the snails in Chiapas.

    A quote from Subcomandante Marcos:

    "That is why we, the Zapatistas, don't get tired of saying organize yourselves, let's organize ourselves, each person where they are, let's struggle to organize ourselves, let's begin by thinking about how to start to organize and let's gather together in order to unite our organizations for a world where the people command and the government obeys."

    And see my favorite communique of the Zapatistas, published in the San Francisco Chronicle many years ago after a rumor surfaced that Subcomandante Marcos was gay. It ends with, "Marcos is all the exploited, marginalized, and oppressed minorities, resisting and saying, 'Enough!"'

    Resisting and saying "enough" does not have to involve violence. When it does, it's usually the militarized response to peaceful protests that cause it. I don't see that as a reason to docilely stand by while politicians or elected officials discard American values and espouse   unconstitutional and unacceptable policies.


    Parent

    Thank God for young people (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 11:18:00 PM EST
    they have an unquenchable instinct for justice and questioning, searching spirits that won't let this Trump anti-revolution go unchallenged. Guaranteed.

    This is just the beginning.

    Parent

    Are you thinking about joining them? (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:52:48 AM EST
    We're going to be in Southern California for the holidays. If the movement grows, I'm inclined to take to the streets myself, if only to show intergenerational solidarity with the younger folks.

    Parent
    There's a buzz going on about (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 12:53:25 PM EST
    something big in the works here in Rochester.

    Hopefully whatever happens here will be well coordinated with demonstrations going on in other parts of the country.


    Parent

    Honestly, I'm torn. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 12:24:14 AM EST
    As someone who respects process, it looks to me as though Trump won the Electoral College fair and square. On the other hand, though, Trump is clearly such a destabilizing and malevolent presence on both the domestic and world stages, and he further poses such a dire threat to civil liberties to huge numbers of American citizens, I personally feel that public protests to his election are entirely justified.

    In fact, I thought that we should've turned out in the streets during Bush v. Gore in 2000. There are a lot of people who presently believe that we shouldn't make the same mistake twice, and I can't blame them for feeling that way.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    He is a danger to the US (none / 0) (#24)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:56:58 AM EST
    and the world. The United States will be a pariah nation in two years under this president. We will be the South Africa of the 60s. Mark my words, with this guy's penchant for revenge there will be a 'night of the long knives.' The bigots will be emboldened by that and be followed by an american Kristallnacht. They won't be rounding up Jews, but it will be brown people and muslims.

    And for those of you who get your panties in a wad over the Nazi comparisons, tough. Read a history book. This is Germany in the 30s. Play by play.

    Parent

    Revolutions Tend to be Violent (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Michael Masinter on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 12:08:50 PM EST
    The Zapatistas did not overthrow the Mexican system.  The U.S. didn't have a revolution; we threw off foreign control for limited (to white men) self-rule. We are constrained by a constitution and an accreted system of power.  I don't understand how you propose to overthrow a system of government that the majority of our people have happily embraced through nonviolent action.  

    The democratic party is in ruins; even though we elected Obama, we lost congressional seats in each election after 2008, lost state legislative seats and control in each election after 2008, and lost statewide offices in each election after 2008. Rebuilding the democratic party as a meaningful force for progress will take time.  But I don't see any alternative to that hard, slow work.    

    Parent

    The Democratic party's soul and vital energy (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:44:26 PM EST
    are lost without organized labor, or some equivalent well-organized and influential solidarity movement of "working people" that's aligned with the party.

    The smug, yuppie-ized Democratic party we have now is an out-of-touch disaster contaminated by cynics and Machievellian corporate pettifogs who give the impression of being perfectly willing to sell blue collar workers out for dog meat the second someone ponys up the necessary retainer fee..or speaking fee..


    Parent

    The most effective non-violent revolution ... (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 11:12:34 PM EST
    ... I've ever seen in my adult lifetime was the "Bayan Ko!" movement of Feb. 1986 that flooded the streets of Manila with a half-million protestors, shut down the city for four days, ousted the Philippines' dictator-President Ferdinand Marcos, and inaugurated Corazon Aquino, the widow of his murdered political rival and true winner of the just-completed presidential election, in his place at Malacanang Palace.

    That was really inspiring.

    Parent

    It didn't last (none / 0) (#36)
    by Michael Masinter on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 11:58:42 AM EST
    Duterte has resurrected Marcos as a national hero.

    Parent
    Then for that matter, ... (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:11:02 PM EST
    ... neither did our own American Revolution, given the poisonous chinchilla-haired jackwagon who was just elected POTUS by the most sincerely ignorant and conscientiously stupid citizens in our greater American society.

    Parent
    And Duterte has publicly called Obama (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:18:06 PM EST
    a "son of a whore."

    Parent
    My children and nieces and nephews (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:46:02 PM EST
    are marching, and you d@mn well better stop slandering them.

    They are not violent.  There is no violence in the marches in my city.  There is not even a threat of violence in the marches in my city.

    Stop the lies.  We are not allowing the normalizing of your ilk's lies, anymore.  

    Parent

    I slandered no one (none / 0) (#98)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 05:38:38 AM EST
    And you know that

    I never referenced any city, and spoke how peaceful protests would send a powerful message. I also stated a warning, that agitators attach themselves to protests recently, and steal the limelight and coverage.
    And , yes, there have been violence at SOME of these protests. Just read some posts below.

    A honest, organized peaceful protest movement would send a powerful message.

    Just need to keep them peaceful.


    Parent
    Why so defensive? (none / 0) (#100)
    by Nemi on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 07:33:17 AM EST
    The comment wasn't directed at you.

    Parent
    A concerted, well-organized, frontal assault (none / 0) (#9)
    by jondee on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 10:50:25 PM EST
    on the present one dollar, one vote campaign finance status quo would be a great place to start..

    A powerful case could even be made to Trump's "anti-elitist", "grassroots" supporters; throwing down the gauntlet and challenging them to show their meddle and walk their own anti-elitist talk.

    Parent

    That will be a problem (none / 0) (#19)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 05:47:19 AM EST
    Going forward.

    A honest, organized peaceful protest movement would send a powerful message.
    But are they protesting things that haven't occurred yet, and fear will happen, or current conditions?

    And one point common to many protests recently, they may start peaceful and non violent, but a fringe attaches itself to it, and corrupts the overall purpose. The coverage then centers on the the violence, closing of main thorough fares. Just need to keep them peaceful.

    Parent

    Not so, that the protests are aimed (none / 0) (#106)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 12:29:25 PM EST
    at "things that haven't occurred yet." First of all, they are not protesting the vote count or the Electoral College system, that I have seen. "Not my President" means, "He doesn't claim to speak for me, doesn't want to include me in his constituency, and I agree with him on that." The protests are directed at what Tr*mp said during the campaign he believed, what he claimed he would do if he got the chance, and also at his past comments and conduct, as disclosed by journalists during the campaign. All of these are things that have occurred. The protesters say, "No More and No Further. Stop right there and change course.  We are frightened, we are sad, and we object to what America would become if you went forward with your expressed ideas and plans. And by the way, we represent a clear majority of the voters."

    Parent
    "Clear Marjority" is a bit of a stretch (none / 0) (#107)
    by McBain on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 03:18:16 PM EST
    Where was all this energy before election day? Perhaps some of this outrage should be aimed at the media for misleading so many.

    The rest of your post makes sense to me.  Some good might come out of these protests if the the violence and tantrums are kept to a minimum.

    Parent

    Not a large majority (none / 0) (#108)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 04:25:36 PM EST
    but -- as between Tr*mp and HRC -- a clear majority. You are right (if that's what you are referring to) that HRC's quarter-million votes in excess of Tr*mp's nevertheless give her only an overwhelming plurality of those cast, thanks to Stein, Johnson and McMullin. Which ironically is more of a vote of confidence than Tr*mp ever received, whether in the Republican primaries or in the general.

    Parent
    Is every vote actually counted? (none / 0) (#109)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 04:34:43 PM EST
    probably not (none / 0) (#110)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 04:44:08 PM EST
    but purt' near.

    Parent
    Ya, I just googled around. (none / 0) (#111)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 04:54:05 PM EST
    LA Times says 4 million ballots remain to be counted in CA, probably adding more to her total than to Trump's.

    Parent
    Article Five Makes That Impossible (5.00 / 4) (#20)
    by Michael Masinter on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 06:33:47 AM EST
    Why would three fourths of the states approve a constitutional amendment that weakens the power of their voters to influence the outcome of presidential elections?

    I am generally not a fan of proposals (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:10:59 AM EST
    to amend the Constitution, particularly those which call for a convention. I can just imagine -- with horror -- what changes to the First, Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Amendments, just to name a few, could attract majority support in that environment.

    Parent
    The Electoral College is an historical ... (none / 0) (#59)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:53:59 PM EST
    ... anachronism, an obsolete vestige of late 18th / early 19th century hardcore politics and then-toxic regional rivalries along the Atlantic seaboard. While I share your concerns about amending the Constitution in general, the Electoral College has twice shown enormous potential in the last 16 years to destabilize our political realm by imposing the angry tyranny of a self-aggrieved minority of ignorant citizens upon the rest of us.

    Only now, the differences aren't regional in nature along an axiom of north and south, but are primarily socio-economic and racial, pitting our increasingly diverse and wealthy urban centers against mostly white and increasingly impoverished rural and small town communities.

    Those differences need to be addressed for the sake and health of our nation. But they cannot be solved by giving an angry conservative white minority a political trump card over everyone else, and with it an accompanying license to roll back at their convenience and whim a century and more of socio-economic progress on behalf of women and minorities. That's a recipe for disaster.

    We are presently staring at the abyss of a self-inflicted political crisis, not unlike Brexit in the United Kingdom, and we need to address it fully as such, and not merely as a legal and constitutional conundrum. Otherwise, the ultimate solution to this matter may instead be found in the streets, and ultimately resolved by what happens outside of a courthouse and legislature.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    One answer is in the 3rd paragraph: (none / 0) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:48:30 AM EST
    "In three of those [four] prior occasions [in which the electoral college and popular vote diverged], our political process became dangerously stressed to the point of destabilization and breakdown. We like to think that we're immune to such things. We're actually not."

    Aloha.

    Parent

    When was the last time a protest actually worked? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:46:14 PM EST
    I'm not talking about getting attention, I'm talking about making a change.  

    That's hard to gauge... (none / 0) (#58)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:50:53 PM EST
    A successful protest provokes thought, which can eventually lead to political change, and culminating in real change.

    And even a seemingly unsuccessful protest is worthwhile...like an official record for when history frowns upon a society's actions, that there were those who spoke out against it and were not on the wrong side of history.

    Parent

    Most of the protests fo the past 5 or 6 years (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:01:31 PM EST
    have been from the left.  A Republican just won the big prize. Doesn't seem like much success there but maybe lots of thought.  

    Did Occupy Wall Street do anything significant? The Iraq War protests?

    Parent

    All those Tea Party rallies (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:06:27 PM EST
    were, to a large extent, protests.

    You don't think they energized Trump's movement? Don't kid yourself, they did.

    Parent

    the vietnam protests (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 08:00:42 PM EST
    did. And they were peaceful -- watch the one in Forest Gump, I think it's meant to be the one from November, 1969 when more than 500,000 marched on the Pentagon . And this was before the internet, email and social media. I went to that one, there were buses everywhere, from colleges in every state, even Canada. I remember we slept in a school gymnasium, it was a great thing to be a part of.

    Parent
    The Vietnam protest (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by fishcamp on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:08:47 PM EST
    I was at in SF was a dangerous affair.  I was standing behind a group that had giant rocks by their feet that I didn't see until they started throwing them.  Then the horse mounted police charged them, and I was in the middle.  I spotted a Catholic Church across Washington Square and ran for it.  The nuns were peeking out a window, saw me coming, and opened the door at the last moment.  First time I was glad to see the nuns.

    Parent
    The mayor of Oakland called protesters to end the mayhem after three Oakland police officers were injured, three Pleasanton patrol cars were damaged and 30 people were arrested late Wednesday when an anti-Donald Trump rally turned violent with rocks, bottles, fireworks, M-80s and Molotov cocktails.


    Parent
    That was before my time but I don't doubt you (none / 0) (#86)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:28:49 PM EST
    Do you think the protesters today are wannabe protesters of the 60s?

    Parent
    I think OWS did... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:14:21 PM EST
    I think it contributed to Bernie's surprise success, and raised awareness of the big problems with our economic systems.

    If the Democratic Party reemerges as the party of the working class, or a new party for working people rises from it's ashes...that can be attributed in part to OWS.  The jury is still out.

    Parent

    Good point (none / 0) (#63)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:21:58 PM EST
    we've also got to cut loose at all costs these resigned, defeatist "you just don't understand how markets work" Rubin-Summers-Geithner wannabes.

    Parent
    These protests already worked (none / 0) (#89)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:50:00 PM EST
    based on the evidence, including your post.

    Go read up on the persuasion model and learn that this is only the first stage. And it's working well.

    Parent

    It doesn't matter to me (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by fishcamp on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:37:43 PM EST
    what category Trevor is in, he can come fishing with me any time, and sarcastic unarmed one can too.  There won't be any time for political talk since there are so many fish down here everybody will be too busy.  Just practice your knots, since this is where the big fish live.  

    I saw a great bumper sticker (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:43:22 PM EST
    Fishing: The Only Time I Have Pure Thoughts.

    Parent
    some day. We own some dirt near Ft. Myers.

    I've been having good luck with the Kreh Loop Knot for the past couple years, what do you use?

    Parent

    Yep, I use the Kreh knot (none / 0) (#85)
    by fishcamp on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:24:50 PM EST
    for flys, but I use the uni knot for everything else.  We use the Bimini twist to double the line for tying light mono to heavy mono, with the uni knot.  I don't really like braided line since it tangles too much on long casts.  It's good for deep drops.

    Parent
    Surfcasting (none / 0) (#99)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 05:45:55 AM EST
    Is constant longcasts. Braid has gotten better since its emergence, I very rarely get those dreaded wind knots anymore. And I love the way you feel everything on the other end of the line.

    I think I use the Allbright to connect the braid to mono (which forms the base on the reel, and then add 150 yards of braid for casting)


    Parent

    I have never (none / 0) (#72)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 06:55:03 PM EST
    Been that good at knots, despite my years of fishing, lol.

    Braided line is pretty easy, but that damn thick fluorocarbon for leaders....

    Parent

    That is a tempting offer (none / 0) (#74)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:04:58 PM EST
    Lot of nice fish down your ways,

    And I have always promised myself a fishing vacation,

    I have mentioned the Amazon Peacock Bass dream, but that is a tad expensive, but the Amazon is the Amazon, a great lure

    And you did say you have crocodiles across the canal from you, lol.

    Thanks for the offer

    Parent

    There are Peacock Bass in S FL. (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 08:11:40 PM EST
    Maybe not as big as in the Amazon, but Peacock Bass nonetheless...

    Parent
    the comment about (none / 0) (#93)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:23:38 PM EST
    Trevor was deleted, it was unacceptable.

    Parent
    Ah, but Donald capitalizes (4.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:51:23 PM EST
    the first word of each sentence, so his posts are easier to read than short but poorly written ones.

    They would have been (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 08:40:08 PM EST
    Better off doing something voting related prior

    It is good to do this (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by KeysDan on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 09:20:17 PM EST
    now, while President Obama is still in office.  Later, when the law and order president comes in, it will be considered seditious.  Trump is vindictive.

    Parent
    It is time (none / 0) (#25)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:58:42 AM EST
    for sedition. To save the Republic.

    Parent
    maybe they did vote and (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 08:42:52 PM EST
    campaign and raise money and phone-bank. I don't think you can assume these are people who only cared after the result came in.

    Parent
    It is, after all, pretty frustrating (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Peter G on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 09:04:28 PM EST
    to once again, for the second time in less than 20 years, win the popular vote and yet lose the Presidency to a dangerous nincompoop. Did someone say "rigged"?

    Parent
    Perhaps it's time to do away with the (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by McBain on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 09:11:03 PM EST
    electoral college system.  

    Parent
    Perhaps it is. (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 12:13:55 AM EST
    This year marks the fifth time in our country's history in which the winner in the Electoral College actually lost the popular vote.

    (For the record, the present vote count is still ongoing, and Mrs. Clinton currently leads by 202,340 votes. That number is likely to expand as Washington state finishes its always-laborious ballot count. Reports from 30% of its precincts, mostly in Democratic King County and the Puget Sound region, are still outstanding.)

    The other four times were in 1824 (John Quincy Adams v. Andrew Jackson, et al.), 1876 (Rutherford Hayes v. Samuel Tilden), 1888 (Benjamin Harrison v. Grover Cleveland), and 2000 (George W. Bush v. Al Gore). In three of those prior occasions, our political process became dangerously stressed to the point of destabilization and breakdown. We like to think that we're immune to such things. We're actually not.

    In the particularly acrimonious 1876 dispute between Gov. Hayes (R-OH) and Gov. Tilden (D-NY), Tilden had won the popular vote decisively by 3 percentage points and had initially won in the Electoral College, only to see three southern states suddenly flip their electoral votes to Hayes under very dubious and corrupt circumstances, in which Republicans promised to end Reconstruction those states in exchange for the necessary electoral votes to give Hayes a 185-184 edge.

    Now, to be fair to the GOP back then, this was a period in which the Ku Klux Klan was an enormous and much-feared influence in southern U.S. politics, and Klansmen had actively moved to violently suppress the Republican vote down south on behalf of the Democratic candidate, Gov. Tilden.

    There is a very good case to be made that without Klan activity, the overall vote in those three states would have, if fairly cast, delivered those states to Gov. Hayes and the Republicans anyway, and Hayes would have likely won the nationwide popular vote, as well.

    Tensions eventually reached a serious boiling point in late February 1877, when both candidates were then simultaneously preparing to take separate oaths of office on March 4, which was then the official Inauguration Day. The State of New York actually began issuing orders for the mobilization of its militia, in a thinly-veiled threat to march on Washington, D.C. and install Gov. Tilden in the White House by force of arms.

    This was a period in post-Civil War American history when the actual standing U.S. Army was less than 50,000 men, most all of whom were scattered in various posts out west of the Mississippi River, engaged in a frontier war against the Lakota Sioux and Cheyenne. Had New York - which was then our most populous state and possessed a huge militia -- moved on D.C. militarily, there would have been little the lame-duck Grant administration could have done to stop it.

    The political crisis was finally diffused with face-to-face negotiations between the parties to the political dispute. In the Compromise of 1877, Tilden agreed to back down and accede to Hayes as president, and Reconstruction was terminated in the South, which is something southern Dems wanted dearly. Further and in private, Hayes promised Tilden that he would serve only one term and not run for re-election.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Anybody for a Parliamentary System? (none / 0) (#34)
    by RickyJim on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 11:46:25 AM EST
    DT would never been able to become Chief Executive under one.  Too much democracy can be bad.  I think the argument about popular vs electoral college is misguided.  Trump could have won the close popular vote but never have been chosen to lead the nation by the Republican elite.

    Parent
    hacked (none / 0) (#22)
    by TeresaInPa on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:18:36 AM EST
    Work around w/o Constitutional amendment (none / 0) (#47)
    by honora on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:16:54 PM EST
    The National Popular Vote (http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/) campaign has been around for awhile. The website is horrible, but I think they are at 160+ Electoral votes.  That means states with that many votes have agreed to give their electoral votes to the winner of the popular vote of the nation and not the popular vote of their state.  Once states controlling 270 electoral votes have signed on, it takes effect. It is a long process, but we are actually pretty close. It will probably not come about until a Republican candidate wins the popular vote and still loses the election.  Not as likely to happen.

    Parent
    In a word (none / 0) (#4)
    by coast on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 09:09:33 PM EST
    Stay Classy!

    you have brought your anti-Hillary (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 09:51:58 PM EST
    comments and Republican talking points here for months. Please don't lecture anyone here on "staying classy." If you don't like the views expressed, visit another site.

    Parent
    Jeralyn (none / 0) (#97)
    by coast on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 05:06:52 AM EST
    I voted for Hillary.  

    And I don't lecture as many here do.  I offer an opinion and I'm open to discussion.  Again something many here don't do.

    Parent

    Like your candidate? (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 09, 2016 at 11:25:19 PM EST
    You're funny.

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    Linea (none / 0) (#26)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:10:27 AM EST
    I have never made personal comments here on any who participate, but your post is screaming for attention.  On a blog written by a pre-eminent Constitutional and criminal lawyer, where many of those who comment have worked for the DOJ, other branches of government, academia, the private sector and the like, I and others come to read thoughtful, educated commentary. I always learn from Donald's posts, and appreciate so what he has to offer. Why boast about a short attention span if not to bring attention to yourself -- negative or positive?

    probably true (none / 0) (#76)
    by linea on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:11:23 PM EST
    Seems to me this site is pushing something I (none / 0) (#27)
    by leftwig on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:39:38 AM EST
    have been suggesting for some time.  Our nation is clearly not united.  The two extremes are so diametrically opposed that there is little to no common ground between them.  We need one of two things:  a dissolution of the union into multiple nations (probably 3 or 4) or a rework of the 14th Amendment to align with the original intent of the Constitution to restore autonomy to the states and greatly reduce the influence of the Federal gov't (including gutting most federal programs) in the every day lives of Americans.  I do not believe section 1 and 5 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution were ever intended to be used as courts have interpreted it the last 60 years (not saying they didn't have good intent, just that the intent has been bastardized).  IF states were more independent, people could choose to live in areas that align with their beliefs/ideals on life which is something Jefferson and the FFs worked extremely hard for.

    An orderly dissolution... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:17:41 AM EST
    of the United States has been on my mind...why the hell not?  I was thinking 4 countries ...United States of the North Atlantic, United States of the Pacific, United States of the Midwest and Trumpland.  Three autonomous governments, but a union of some kind for trade and a common defense a la the EU, and open borders allowing free unimpeded travel throughout.

    If the divides cannot be bridged, perhaps it's best to just divide.  Wouldn't everybody be happier?  


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    States rights (none / 0) (#75)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:10:03 PM EST
    align with the original intent of the Constitution to restore autonomy to the states and greatly reduce the influence of the Federal gov't (including gutting most federal programs) in the every day lives of Americans.  I do not believe section 1 and 5 of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution were ever intended to be used as courts have interpreted it the last 60 years (not saying they didn't have good intent, just that the intent has been bastardized).  IF states were more independent, people could choose to live in areas that align with their beliefs/ideals on life which is something Jefferson and the FFs worked extremely hard for.

    I have felt that way , more so in the last 16 years. And that is the the way the Constitution was written, I believe. Shrink the Federal Government, give the power to the states, and let people vote with their feet.

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    21st Century Trail of Tears? (none / 0) (#101)
    by Steve13209 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 09:44:34 AM EST
    Most people can't just up and move to another state.

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    Option A.. (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 09:53:55 AM EST
    would be to make your state government something you need not flee from...Option B is to move to a state more your speed, if Option A fails.

    Granted, all much easier said than done. But that's life.

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    Nowadays (none / 0) (#105)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 12:14:08 PM EST
    There would be no Trail of Tears.

    it may be inconvenient and messy to move, but it can be done. And if it is to a state more conducive to your beliefs, so much that you feel your government is not diametrically opposed to you, the benefits will be worth it.
    The NYS public union sector has quite a history of leaving NYS to lower taxed Southern states, and upgrading their domicile for the same cost as what they owned in NY.

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    Saw people protesting in Vegas last evening. (none / 0) (#28)
    by vml68 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 09:58:46 AM EST
    I am on vacation but honestly it is really hard to enjoy myself.

    After staring in disbelief as the results of the election started coming in, I have been feeling numb. I  am having trouble processing the results.


    good way to put it (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 12:51:18 PM EST
    my brain isn't quite processing it yet either.

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    Know the feeling... (none / 0) (#103)
    by gbrbsb on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 10:36:22 AM EST
    ...I'm still numb from our own Brexit, my only tingling sensations since June, reading Farage might move to the States to work for Trump's admin, (sorry folks!), and hearing the gasps to the latest faux pas of our own blonde windswept haired buffoon, Boris Johnson, when heralding the "Titanic" success the UK is going to make of Brexit!

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    The protests... (none / 0) (#31)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:28:46 AM EST
    certainly have me feeling a little better about things...the people ain't gonna take Trump's sh&t lying down.  There will be no turning the clock back to the 1950's, not on the kids watch.

    Heard on news radio this morning that Trump Tower is practically on lockdown...military style cops and Secret Service all over the place, streets and sidewalks closed, TSA style rub and tug security to get into even the common public areas.  The reporter was sternly ordered to cease broadcasting from inside the ladies room in the lobby and told to take it across the street.  

    I think this security (none / 0) (#32)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:58:43 AM EST
    lock-down will continue.  It will be difficult for Trump to do what I believe he sees his presidential role to be: the face of a fascist oligarchy.

     Most observers know that Trump has no policies of his own, just some notions, so he will be the ribbon and bow on a package of Republican wet dreams originating at the Heritage Foundation and put into place by the Republican Congress.

     Trump will update FDR's fireside chats with Apprentice=like TV shows, stand-by tweets, and spin by his Minister of Propaganda, Dead Breitbart.   Press conferences will be out, and reporting kept at bay other than for access by Trump sycophants.  

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    Humor is another tool... (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 11:37:58 AM EST
    that will get us through these stormy seas.

    I, for one, welcome our new Fuhrer and the glorious walls he will build, and the bounty of money and jobs that will wash upon the shores of the Fatherland by divine right, to be shared in a disproportionate manner amongst straight whites only.

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    Humor, (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:15:00 PM EST
    is my favorite.  Hard to satirize Trump; ridicule is easy.  The later will have a price to pay--membership on his list.

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    When Bush won (none / 0) (#35)
    by CST on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 11:57:43 AM EST
    The electoral college and lost the popular vote - both of them were extremely close.

    This time it looks like Hillary will win the popular vote - in a close race - but the electoral college isn't anything resembling close.

    If that's not a sign that things are increasingly polarized I don't know what is.

    I do know that the population centers in blue states are not going to just sit down and $hut up though.  My one silver lining was waking up in a state where every single county voted for Clinton - so I don't fear my neighbors will attack members of my family, we have our own healthcare law, and legal pot to get us through this mess.  But when he guts the EPA or decides to nuke/invade some country in the middle east - frankly, it won't matter where you live, the whole world is f*cked.

    Very true... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:14:48 PM EST
    liberal states ain't gonna change for nobody...it is our brothers and sisters in conservative states that are truly f*cked...and they were already pretty well f*cked regardless of who is president.

    Losing ground in Congress may prove to be the greater defeat...that's where the real power is, the pain caused by Trump will mostly be to our reputation around the world and domestic bigots feeling emboldened.

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    Yup, we realize more than ever we have to (none / 0) (#51)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:24:52 PM EST
    Get our son out of here. We must retire in a state that has its healthcare situation situated.


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    Move to New York then ... (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by Erehwon on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:15:06 PM EST
    Special ed and care for people with disabilities is better than most of other states. Not perfect, but immensely better that any other state we have considered moving to!

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    Possibilty of retiring out of Ft Drum (none / 0) (#79)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:56:52 PM EST
    My son has informed us he expects to be in the audience for SNL and Colbert. So I had to look up getting tickets. You request tickets for the SNL season in August?

    Thank you for the info. It is in my experience best to hear from the residents of states about how their care is for fragile family members in order to assess.

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    Very Republican,Cobb County, Georgia, (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:17:32 PM EST
    home to Gingrich and his wives, went to Clinton.

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    State Government (none / 0) (#39)
    by Steve13209 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 12:48:04 PM EST
    may be the place where changes can be made. In NY and California, perhaps becoming less dependent on federal programs and just go it alone. Although single payer healthcare will be difficult.

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    The issue will be money... (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:06:56 PM EST
    if I'm not mistaken, NY and CA are two of the sugar-daddy states that send more to DC than they get back in federal funding and services.

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    gotta say, some of the protesters have (none / 0) (#50)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:23:43 PM EST
    a sense of humor.

    Some signs I've seen from the protests:

    w/o immigration, Trump would have no wives

    Trump eats pizza with a fork

    We shall overcomb

    You know things are messed up when librarians start marching

    I know signs
    I make the best signs
    They're terrific
    Everyone agrees

    And some not intentionally humorous:

    One hugh (sic) mistake America

    My favorite was (none / 0) (#53)
    by CST on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:39:09 PM EST
    This guy during the primary.

    Link

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    The Latino kids marching and crying (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:25:02 PM EST
    As they talk to reporters are breaking my heart.

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    Ha! Just saw another: (none / 0) (#55)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:42:13 PM EST
    Sh*t is f*cked up and stuff

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    Trump supporter, and (none / 0) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:34:16 PM EST
    Sheriff of Milwaukee, David Clarke, said about the peaceful protests, "these temper tantrums from these radical anarchists must be quelled.  There is no legitimate reason to protest the will of the people."   Sheriff Clarke is mentioned as Secretary of Homeland Security in the Trump Administration.

    Since Clinton won Milwaukee... (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 01:40:42 PM EST
    wouldn't that make the Sheriff the one protesting the rights and will of the people he swore an oath to protect and serve?

    Riddle me that Copper!

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    radical anarchists (none / 0) (#65)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:29:14 PM EST
    two words he couldn't give even a rough approximation of the dictionary definition of.

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    Dude probably thinks Emma Goldman... (none / 0) (#66)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 02:30:52 PM EST
    is one of Trump's accusers.

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    He thinks Prince Kropotkin (none / 0) (#70)
    by jondee on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 03:29:24 PM EST
    is a spaghetti sauce company.

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    Sounds like a throwback (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 08:02:04 PM EST
    to Kent State. He also sounds very ignorant.

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    He is. (none / 0) (#91)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:00:43 PM EST
    He was fired from the Milwaukee (City) Police Department.

    But he then got himself appointed to fill a vacancy for county sheriff -- appointed by a Republican governor, based on the recommendation of the Milwaukee County Executive . . . one Scott Walker.

    Clarke laid low at first and then, when he had to run for the office, said that he is a Democrat.

    He continued to claimed he is a Democrat . . . while using Walker, as county executive and as governor, to pick off the opposition -- in part, of course, with funneling of massive funding for a local office.  Funding from his friends like Walker.  

    Oh, and also his friends like Charlie Sykes -- who also used to claim to be a Democrat, and now is fooling MSNBC as much as Clarke woos Fox.  

    Do not be fooled.  Both of these guys are better understood not by party labels but as craven opportunists.  

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    Wonder could it be argued... (none / 0) (#104)
    by gbrbsb on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 11:35:23 AM EST
    ... it isn't the "will of the people" the Sheriff wanted to refer to but the electoral system since "the people" as such, showed their will by voting more for HC than for Trump.

    But FPTP has advantages like keeping UKIP out of parliament bar one seat when had the UK had PR they would have won nigh 100!

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    Revolutionary party (none / 0) (#71)
    by Andreas on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 03:31:37 PM EST
    A real revolution requires an open debate on the cause of the victory of Donald Trump and a revolutionary party. The Democratic Party and its supporters will attempt to suppress both.

    Exactly why (none / 0) (#73)
    by TrevorBolder on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 07:01:03 PM EST
    I only lurked for years. First found the blog during the Zimmerman case, and found it interesting reading. Have read it continually since then, but took a deep breath and dove in the pool maybe a year ago, can't remember,
    And have learned to treat those comments like water off a duck...for the most part

    well, that comment (none / 0) (#82)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 08:09:28 PM EST
    is egregiously foul

    it was directed at you but reflects badly on the site

    Jeralyn: cleanup on aisle 21, please

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    The Addams Family (none / 0) (#92)
    by NYShooter on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:12:52 PM EST
    Just wanted to say,

    I'm really glad to see you posting again (even as little as it is.)

    Hope you stick around.

    P.s. Is there an abbreviation you could suggest for your screen name?....3 words, all those capitals! Oy. two fingers can go just so fast.

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    just call me Addams, or TAF ;) (none / 0) (#96)
    by The Addams Family on Fri Nov 11, 2016 at 02:17:54 AM EST
    & thanks for your kind words

    i find your comments incisive & original & always learn something

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    cleaned, thanks for the heads up (none / 0) (#94)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Nov 10, 2016 at 10:24:27 PM EST
    email is better since I don't always scroll through comments but this one I caught when you said "cleanup"

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