Hillary-Sanders Univision Debate: "It Don't Come Easy"
Posted on Thu Mar 10, 2016 at 08:57:00 AM EST
Tags: Democratic debate, 2016 (all tags)
There was another Democratic debate last night, sponsored by the Washington Post and Univision. The full transcript is here. The Washington Post says Hillary was grilled on tough topics like a potential indictment, Benghazi, and polls finding the American public don't think she's honest and trustworthy. After saying she takes responsibility, she adds (from the transcript:)
Look, I have said before and it won't surprise anybody to hear me say it, this is not easy for me. It's not easy to do what I think is right, to help people, to even the odds...
I am not a natural politician, in case you haven't noticed, like my husband or President Obama. So I have a view that I just have to do the best I can, get the results I can, make a difference in people's lives, and hope that people see that I'm fighting for them and that I can improve conditions economically and other ways that will benefit them and their families.
[More...]
Is there anything in your own actions and the decisions that you yourself have made that would foster this kind of mistrust?
CLINTON: Well, first Karen, obviously it's painful for me to hear that. And I do take responsibility. When you're in public life, even if you believe that it's not an opinion that you think is fair or founded, you do have to take responsibility. And I do.
From the transcript, here are some highlights of the portion about immigration:
RAMOS: But again, yes or no, can you promise tonight that you won't deport children, children who are already here?
CLINTON: I will not deport children. I would not deport children. I do not want to deport family members either, Jorge. I want to, as I said, prioritize who would be deported: violent criminals, people planning terrorist attacks, anybody who threatens us. That's a relatively small universe.
RAMOS: OK. So I want to be very specific. So you are telling us tonight that if you become president you won't deport children who are already here?
CLINTON: I will not.
RAMOS: And that you won't deport immigrants who don't have a criminal record?
CLINTON: That's what I'm telling you....
RAMOS: So you will stop those deportations.
CLINTON: I would stop...
RAMOS: The deportations for children...
CLINTON: Yes.
RAMOS: ... and those who don't have a criminal record.
CLINTON: Of the people, the undocumented people living in our country, I do not want to see them deported. I want to see them on a path to citizenship. That is exactly what I will do.
Sanders answered the same, but first attacked Hillary over a related but different issue: allowing children from Honduras to enter the U.S. (the question was about deporting people who were already here.) Hillary responded to Bernie's accusation anyway.
CLINTON: When I was secretary of state, I worked to try to support many different approaches to ending the violence in Central America. I was there meeting with leaders, security leaders, and others.
What did Bernie do to help the Hondurans besides voice his support? Did he go to Central America and meet with leaders? (I don't know the answer.)
Sanders pointed out that major Latino groups opposed the 2007 bill, even though Ted Kennedy worked hard on it. That's true -- I opposed it as well, because it didn't go far enough, even though it provided a path to citizenship for the undocumented.
While the defeat is considered a "stinging setback" for President Bush, I'm glad it's dead for other reasons. The path to citizenship was too onerous and the bill failed to preserve the principles of family reunification and protect workers' rights. It was too heavy on border enforcement and too punitive.
In case you don't remember the bill, here's a summary. It was a Republican bill with big Democratic support, and Bush couldn't get Republicans to vote for it. Here's the roll call vote that torpedoed it. Note that Sanders voted with Republicans against it. What Sanders said during the debate:
SANDERFS: It's true, Ted Kennedy, a good friend of mine, and I think the secretary did work very hard on that bill. But does anyone really believe that if that bill was all so good, as the secretary is touting, that LULAC and other major Latino organizations, the largest Latino organizations in this country said no to that bill.
He skips the part about voting against it, even though it had a path to legalization, and moves to 2013.
And I worked very hard in improving the guest worker provisions so that in 2013 a bill I strongly supported, people who were in the guest worker program in America would not be treated like slaves.
Hillary points out:
CLINTON: Let me just conclude by saying that United Farm Workers considered that bill in their words the last best hope for farm workers and immigrants They have proven to be right in the succeeding years. I only hope that we can put together a coalition to pass comprehensive immigration reform in the next Congress.
She says Sanders supported indefinite detention in 2006.
And as I said earlier, in 2006, Senator Sanders supported indefinite detention for people facing deportation...and stood with the Minutemen vigilantes in their ridiculous, absurd efforts to, quote, "hunt down immigrants.
So look, I think the goal here is to elect a Democratic Senate, elect a Democratic president and get to work immediately to get comprehensive immigration reform.
Sanders is asked about his support of the Minuteman and after acting like he didn't hear the question, says he did not.
RAMOS: Did you support the Minutemen, Senator? Did you support the Minutemen?
SANDERS: I'm sorry?
RAMOS: Did you support the Minutemen, as Secretary Clinton has said?
SANDERS: Of course not.
Then he acknowledges voting for the legislation that included support for the Minutemen, but insists Hillary took his support out of context.
There was a piece of legislation supported by dozens and dozens of members of the House which codified existing legislation. What the secretary is doing tonight and has done very often is take large pieces of legislation and take pieces out of it.
So he wasn't supporting the Minutemen -- but the legislation he voted for included such support. He just thought other pieces of the legislation were important enough to overlook that part.
Bernie said he'll match his record against Hillary's record any day of the week.
Madame Secretary, I will match my record against yours any day of the week.
He has nowhere near the breadth of experience she has. Where's his record of achievements as opposed to his record of complaining?
After more stuff about bailouts and the auto industry, which I'm just not interested in, they moved on to Trump and his border wall and Hillary says both she and Sanders have supported "some fencing", just not what Trump is calling for. Sanders confirms their positions on that are similar.
SALINAS: But the question is, what is the difference between the wall that you voted for and Donald Trump's wall?
CLINTON: It's a big difference. First of all, as I understand him, he's talking about a very tall wall. (LAUGHTER)Right? A beautiful tall wall. The most beautiful tall wall, better than the Great Wall of China, that would run the entire border. That he would somehow magically get the Mexican government to pay for. And, you know, it's just fantasy. And in fact, if he cared to know anything about what members of Congress, like the senator and I have done, where it was necessary, we did support some fencing.
Where it was necessary, we did add border patrol agents. We have done what by any fair estimate would have to conclude is a good job, quote, "securing the border". So let's get about the business of comprehensive immigration reform.
SANDERS: Let me just say... I think the secretary and I mostly, I think, agree on this issue.
On the Supreme Court justice selection issue:
CLINTON: A court took away a presidency. Now we've got the Republican Congress trying to take away the constitution. And we should not tolerate that.
I would look for people who believe that Roe v. Wade is settled law and that Citizens United needs to be overturned as quickly as possible.
Closing Statements: Hillary went first.
CLINTON: Well, thank you very much for a lively debate. And I appreciate greatly all the questions, especially the questions in person from the people here and those coming at us from Facebook. It just reinforces my strong commitment to do everything I can to break down all the barriers that stand in the way of people living up to their own potential, and of our country doing the same.
So I am going to take on those economic barriers. I have a plan to create jobs and raise incomes. I'm going to take on the education barriers that often leave too many children behind even after they have completed schooling. I'm going to take on the healthcare barriers.
I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that we unite our country. I will find common ground, just as I have as first lady, as senator and secretary of state. I will also stand my ground wherever matters of principles are at stake.
CLINTON: I would be honored to have your support in the upcoming primary on Tuesday, and hope to have the great honor of serving you as your president.
Sanders closing: Right away he goes to his 1% issue, Wall St and Campaign finance. Does he realize this debate is geared to Hispanic issues?
SANDERS: This has been a wonderful debate, but time being limited, some of the most important issues facing our country have not been asked. And that is, is it acceptable that in America the top 0.1 percent now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent.
And so on. The moderators end the evening with these comments:
Talk about the importance of Hispanic votes, how in very close races it is the Hispanic vote that can choose the next president of the United States. This is Hispanic power, but the only way that this can happen is if we all go out and vote.
So you know it perfectly, who does not vote doesn't count.
The spanish speaking questioner:
SALINAS (through translator): And as you know, nobody can reach the White House without the Hispanic vote. Remember, don't let others decide for you. The power is in your hands, you have to participate, you have to vote. Thank you for being with us this evening and thank you for trusting in Univision. Good evening.
I wonder if Bernie Sanders is tone deaf. I highly doubt that the issue of Wall St, campaign finance and the 1% will drive Hispanic voter turnout.
On immigration reform, I know what I support. In 2007, when Republicans killed the immigration reform bill, I figured it would be 2009 when it came up again, and looking ahead, I proposed the TalkLeft Immigration Reform Act of 2009. (TIRA.) These were the highlights:
- Provide the opportunity for undocumented immigrants to legalize their status
- Expand avenues for legal immigration and support family reunification
- Increase access and options for permanent residency and citizenship
- Strengthen labor protections and their enforcement for all workers, both native and foreign born
- End border and immigration enforcement abuses
- Make legalization immediate and without conditions. People would not have to go back to their home countries while awaiting legalization. They would not face excessive costs and taxes for having been here without proper documentation.
- End criminalization and border walls.
- Protect civil liberties. Local law enforcement would be precluded from enforcing civil immigration laws.
- Reduce the list of mandatory aggravated crimes requiring deportation to include only serious violent crimes. For other offense, Judges would have discretion to allow a person who comes before the court for sentencing not to be deported.
There really isn't much difference between Hillary and Bernie on immigration. Neither one is progressive enough for me on the topic. (Did any of the groups opposing the 2007 bill mention Bernie had a better plan at the time? I don't think so.) I'll go for the one with greater experience and a greater chance of getting legislation passed by Congress: That would be Hillary.
As to who won the debate: Bernie didn't knock it out of the park and is no closer to the nomination than ever. Hillary didn't fall. The nomination isn't coming easy to her, but it will come.
Bernie is full of well-intentioned ideals. But he has no way to implement them, even if elected. He's never run for office as a Democrat before. His ideas are not revolutionary or even original. His record of achievements to date seems lackluster. He's in his mid-70's and the Presidency is a job that requires huge amounts of travel and stamina.
My view: It's time to thank Bernie for his contribution to the discourse, for waking up potential youthful voters and for urging Democrats to move left of center, and for him to step aside from this race he cannot win so that the Democrats can focus on winning the White House and control of Congress in November.
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