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Sanders' Speech: "The Struggle Continues"

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2016
Posted on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:22:49 AM EST
Tags: Bernie Sanders (all tags)
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Update: 12:00 am: Unbelievable. He's going to fight for every vote in Washington DC's primary next week and keep fighting until Philadelphia. He was not even gracious enough to acknowledge Hillary has won the delegate votes necessary for the nomination. When he did mention that she called him tonight to congratulate him on how well he's done, his supporters booed at the mention of her name. He didn't stop them.

Update 11:43 pm. Here's Bernie finally, fist raised. Smiling. The rally music is Power to the People and Talking About a Revolution. He tells everyone they are part of the political revolution. He's recapping his campaign accomplishments- touting his 10 million votes and the support of "young people." He's optimistic about the future of the country. There he goes -- acting like he invented social justice, economic justice, environmental justice. His young fans love it.

He says we will not allow right wing Republicans like Donald Trump dictate our future. The American people will never support a candidate whose major theme is bigotry. Who insults Mexicans, Muslims and African Americans. We will not allow Donald Trump to become President of the United States. But wait, here it comes: "Our mission is more than defeating Trump, it is transforming our country." [More...]

Then he moves on to the top 1/0 of 1%. (Eye roll.) Then campaign finance.

Democracy is not about billionaires buying elections. "We are going to fix our broken criminal justice system." Guaranteed health care to all. Real immigration reform. Another fist raise. Free college should be next. Real change only happens from the bottom up.

That doesn't mean he's going to support Hillary. I think he needs to raise money. The Times says he's laying off more than half of his staff. Contributions to his campaign have really slowed down. He's spent a ton of money. Maybe he's thinking about how to ensure he ends up with no campaign debt. He made a point of saying he's going to meet with Obama tomorrow in D.C. to talk about their working together to reform America.

11:25 pm: California results are coming in. With 34% of the vote counted, Hillary is ahead 62% to 37%. Hillary trounced Sanders in New Jersey. She won New Mexico. Bernie Sanders won in North Dakota and is ahead in Montana.

Sanders is late for his speech in Santa Monica. No one seems to know what he's going to say. A live stream has been running on You Tube for 2 hours. It has running comments on the side which are really distracting. (His supporters are getting restless.)

I doubt Sanders will be in a conciliatory mood or gracious about Hillary winning the nomination. It's not his style -- another reason I don't seem him as presidential. Watching side by side screens earlier of Hillary and Sanders today, he seemed at least a decade older. [More...]

Unfortunately, the media seems intent on switching from covering Bernie to covering his supporters. Enough about them, already. Can we please focus on the nominee and beating Trump? (And no, I don't believe the latter requires Bernie supporters. Trump seems to be unraveling even among Republicans, daily.

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    Sanders' Speech: "The Struggle Continues" | 203 comments (203 topical)
    Maybe Jane could go without salary (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by ExPatObserver on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:06:40 AM EST
    now? She gets a huge paycheck, apparently.

    Probably on her W2 (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:09:07 AM EST
    So she does not want that coming out on the ol income tax filing. Maybe a hundred thousand W2's for $27 this year. Sorry, I should be saving all this anger for the Donald. I just expected better.

    Parent
    You (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:11:44 AM EST
    And the majority of the Democratic Party

    Parent
    I'm sur he can (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:10:43 AM EST
    Keep the donations coming

    Parent
    From Politico: (5.00 / 4) (#4)
    by Nemi on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:53:33 AM EST
    Inside the bitter last days of Bernie's revolution, a piece that only reaffirme my own initial feelings about Bernie Sanders:

    There's no strategist pulling the strings, and no collection of burn-it-all-down aides egging him on. At the heart of the rage against Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party, the campaign aides closest to him say, is Bernie Sanders.
    [...]

    But more than any of them, Sanders is himself filled with resentment, on edge, feeling like he gets no respect -- all while holding on in his head to the enticing but remote chance that Clinton may be indicted before the convention.

    Campaign manager Jeff Weaver, who's been enjoying himself in near constant TV appearances, and the candidate's wife Jane Sanders, are fully on board.

    [...]

    He wants it. He thinks it should be his.
    [...]

    ... his guiding principle under attack has basically boiled down to a feeling that multiple aides sum up as: "Screw me? No, screw you."
    [...]

    Sanders and aides laugh at the idea that he's damaging the party and hurting Clinton. They think they don't get enough gratitude for how much they held back, from not targeting more Democratic members of the House and Senate who opposed him to not making more of an issue out of Clinton's email server investigation and Bill Clinton's sex scandals, all of which they discussed as possible lines of attack in the fall. They blame Clinton going after him on gun control for goading him into letting loose on her Goldman Sachs speeches.
    [...]

    Aides say Sanders thinks that progressives who picked Clinton are cynical, power-chasing chickens -- like Sen. Sherrod Brown, one of his most consistent allies in the Senate before endorsing Clinton and campaigning hard for her ahead of the Ohio primary. Sanders is so bitter about it that he'd be ready to nix Brown as an acceptable VP choice, if Clinton ever asked his advice on who'd be a good progressive champion.
    [...]

    Meanwhile, they're looking into trying to replace the Florida congresswoman as the convention chair with Gabbard, and force Wasserman Schultz to resign as DNC chair the day after the convention.
    [...]

    There's also the issue of payback. Campaign aides say that whatever else happens, Sanders wants former Congressman Barney Frank and Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy out of their spots as co-chairs of the convention rules committee. It's become a priority fight for him.

    Sanders, the aides say, believes Frank has hated him for years, but the former Massachusetts congressman's calling him a "McCarthyite" pushed him over the edge. He never really registered who Malloy was, despite his being from a neighboring home state and his status as one of the most liberal governors in the country, but Sanders was enraged to hear the governor say he had blood on his hands for not supporting the gun manufacturer liability law.

    I could go on, but take a deep breath and read the whole thing. Just as I thought I couldn't possibly dislike the man more, I'm proven wrong. What a small, petty, vindictive, thin-skinned, rude, entitled ... little man. Did I mention vindictive! And apparently with a rage issue on top of everything else. And they say Hillary Clinton is 'dangerous'! Pfft!

    Bernie (5.00 / 5) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:40:40 AM EST
    has destroyed everything he has touched it seems. Any shred of a reputation he had has gone down the drain and he's now an angry and bitter man who feels he is entitled to something he did not earn.

    Parent
    Actually (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by Nemi on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:59:39 AM EST
    from reading that piece, to me he doesn't come across as neither any more nor any less angry and entitled than he always did. Entitlement literally oozes from all that is said both by and about him -- I can see why he isn't all that popular among colleagues in the Senate.

    But what worries me is the opinion, stated not only in that piece, that the Democratic Party is obliged to give in to several of his many demands. Including Obama and Hillary. In the name of Unity.

    One thing is for sure: Sanders is not backing down. He's entitled!

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:03:46 AM EST
    I'm sure that there are a lot of cards to be played with Sanders like taking committee assignments away from him and running a candidate against him for the senate in Vermont. That kind of thing can go both ways.

    Parent
    If he wants a fight, he'll get one (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Trickster on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:27:52 PM EST
    And he won't like the outcome.

    If he wants to negotiate cordially, he can get a nice speaking slot and influence on the platform and Party leadership.

    His choice.

    Parent

    He'll have no say in party leadership (5.00 / 3) (#150)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:28:59 PM EST
    he's too new to the party to make those demands.

    Parent
    Hold on now (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:57:58 AM EST
    If he wins DC it will change EVERYTHING!!!

    With delegates dolled out proportionally (5.00 / 9) (#22)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:28:16 AM EST
    Sanders could move into the lead in the pledged delegate count if he acquires just over 1900% of the vote in DC next Tuesday

    Parent
    Totally doable (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:40:16 AM EST


    Parent
    That would be, like, so totally Mugabe ... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:11:43 PM EST
    ... and way cool, because few things are more revolutionary that stuffing a ballot box for your candidate. And sometimes, you know, old people like us over age 50 often don't know what's really good for us.

    My younger daughter's boyfriend, who's a committed Bernie Bro, sometimes looks at me when I talk about Democratic Party politics as though I should be placed in assisted living. Yesterday.

    But then, I remember when I was his age and a Jesse Jackson delegate to the '88 Atlanta convention, and we couldn't wait for the day when we'd hustle the Old Guard off the stage. Now, I look at myself, and realize that I'm sited in someone else's cross-hairs as the "Old Guard."

    LOL.

    Parent

    But (none / 0) (#108)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:14:20 PM EST
    The new guard is older than the old guard.

    That seems odd.

    Parent

    Most Sandernistas at our state convention ... (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:29:03 PM EST
    ... were age 30 and younger. They've fallen for Bernie Sanders because hey, who doesn't appreciate Cool Grandpa, who tells it like it is?

    If we were their age, we'd probably be wearing Bernie on our sleeve, too. just as young people 40+ years ago were similarly flocking to the nascent appeals of Eugene McCarthy and George McGovern. As Alice Cooper once sang back in the '70s, "Kids need a savior, they don't need a fake."

    Those of us who've long since grown out of that stage of life realize that there are no white knights in politics, and that perfect is the enemy of the good.

    But most young adults in their late teens and twenties have trouble grasping that concept because they've yet to engage in the fine art of situational rationalization. It's hard for them to understand the need for patience and strategize for the long game, because they lack the necessary life's experience to be able to do so effectively.

    If you tell them that they'll have a completely different perspective 20-25 years from now, that tends to go right over their heads because to a 25-year-old, 20 years represents 80% of the sum total of their own lifetime to that point. You might just as well say that they'll be waiting the rest of their lives before they ever see change, as far as they're concerned.

    20-somethings generally don't understand what it's like to be 50 to 80 years old. I certainly don't think we did when we were their age. So, given our enhanced capacity for retrospective introspection thanks to the passage of time, many of us often base our political decision making on what makes perfect long-term sense to us. But to a young adult, that can look like a total sell-out and cop-out.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I am totally experiencing 1968 again (none / 0) (#141)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:21:14 PM EST
    and dreading it

    Parent
    Not a good prospect for the Dem. (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:26:45 PM EST
    in the general election.

    Parent
    We'll be fine. (none / 0) (#158)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:52:26 AM EST
    To paraphrase another great American, President Franklin Roosevelt, there's nothing to fear here except our own baseless fears. As older Democrats, we create problems for ourselves whenever we assume that we know better by virtue of our age, and that there is therefore no need on our part to explain ourselves or our actions to members of the next generation.

    There's a good reason why Sen. Sanders clicked with 20-somethings, as did Sen. McCarthy and Sen. McGovern did 40+ years ago. Simply put, all three acknowledged rather than trivialized the validity of the very real concerns being expressed by young people about the problems they're facing.

    And if we want to be relevant politically in our children's and grandchildren's lives, then we need to start doing the same and respecting where they're coming from.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    What inspired this scolding? (none / 0) (#162)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 02:39:18 AM EST


    Parent
    Yo, oculus, nice to see you! (2.25 / 4) (#185)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:30:41 AM EST
    But, enough niceties, back to business. I don't see Donald's comment as "scolding." However, I can understand your being somewhat perplexed at such a rare expression of insight, reality, and understanding....here at TL anyway. This is not a knock on Donald by any means, but on what this forum has devolved into these past few months.  

    Donald is merely accepting the reality of the situation, and expressing in a manner that doesn't degrade the conversation. And, lol, that's why I luv you, Oc, when speaking as an adult on TL is synonomous with "scolding."

    Oh, this is perfect; check out the comment below for an example of what I'm talking about. Forget anyones preference, the simple fact is that Sen. Sanders has inspired 8-10 million, mostly young, citizens to become involved in the political process in our country, and to attempt to make it a better place for our offspring to have a better life than what they percieve may be taking place to the contrary. Of course, there's an intelligent way to discuss this, and, there's the other way:
    ------------------------------------------------
     "We want EXCITEMENT and big rallies - THAT'S the sign of someone who would make a good president! We don't care about details! Tax the rich!"
    ------------------------------------------------

    Talk about "needing a scolding."

    Nice chatting with you, oculus, I've seen enough, catch you later.

    Parent

    Umm...wow! (5.00 / 2) (#196)
    by vml68 on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:57:16 PM EST
    You be a good little lady and listen to the wise men, Oc. You obviously don't understand when someone so patiently explains a situation to you and then you confuse it with a scolding.

    Donald is merely accepting the reality of the situation, and expressing in a manner that doesn't degrade the conversation. And, lol, that's why I luv you, Oc, when speaking as an adult on TL is synonomous with "scolding."

    That was not paternalistic in the least.


    Parent

    LOL (none / 0) (#186)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:13:26 PM EST
    The sanctimony continues with NYS and Mr. Natural.

    I'm sorry facts bother you.  We DO have a generation of "children" who attracted to shiny objects and don"t deal with disappointment well (see: reporters who were threatened by Bernie supporters after the call was made on Monday for HRC).

    And temper tantrums -just like NYS is doing...

    Puh-leeze.  You're the one who needs a scolding.

    Parent

    One of (5.00 / 2) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:37:15 PM EST
    Bernie's biggest flaws has been lack of attempting to crack down on the bros. A large part of his problem is that he hired the Revolution Messaging people who immediately started up with all the same creepy memes etc. from 2008 when it came to Hillary. They badgered and bullied people all over the internet and the consequences have been not positive for Bernie.

    Parent
    Also the fact (none / 0) (#166)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:20:13 AM EST
    That many of today's millenials (not all, of course) were raised in the era of instant gratification and participation trophies.

    It's easy to be pure when someone is always cleaning up your messes or giving you a ribbon you for just getting out of bed every morning. "We want EXCITEMENT and big rallies - THAT'S the sign of someone who would make a good president! We don't care about details! Tax the rich!"

    Parent

    That young people are graduating from college ... (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:23:23 PM EST
    ... today already saddled with an average $35-43,000 in student loan debt before they even enter the work force, is a mess of their parents' and grandparents' making and not their own. That's something my generation never really had to face as undergraduates.

    In order to continue to live the life to which we believe we're entitled, we're essentially mortgaging our children's and grandchildren's future. Public funding to higher education has been cut by an average of 25-30% nationwide over the last decade alone. The resultant doubling of tuition at public universities, to say nothing of the accompanying fees and surcharges and increased cost of living expenses, wasn't our kids' doing. That's entirely on us.

    And surely you can't blame young people for the fact that so many of us as parents have helicoptered over them, refusing to let them fail and thus learn from their mistakes? Our children didn't demand that we clean up their messes after them and hand them participation trophies. That was entirely our choice as their parents.

    Let's please look at ourselves in the mirror here, and acknowledge that it is our own responsibility as parents for how our children ultimately turn out. If they're proving unable to cope with life as young adults, it's far more likely than not because we as their parents failed to properly and adequately prepare them to do so -- whether it be due from our helicoptering over them (or otherwise), our decisions to cut early education and after-school programs, our nonchalance as they incur mountains of debt just to go to college, &etc., or any toxic combination thereof.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I don't (none / 0) (#192)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:45:00 PM EST
    understand the thing about participation trophies. My son played ball and he got a trophy but it's not really a trophy. It's more or less a statue stating oh, hey, you played baseball from x to y on year z. I certainly would never consider such a thing a "trophy" but I kind of never have seen the point in them at all. It's just another thing to clutter up your house that really means zilch. They should all just eat pizza together at the end of the season.  

    Parent
    Nice job on your favorite bugaboos. (none / 0) (#180)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:10:03 AM EST
    They grew up in an age of unending war and an economy that has turned south for many people.

    Parent
    Oh those poor dears! (none / 0) (#188)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:25:00 PM EST
    I grew up during a war, an energy crisis, bad economies, hyperinflation, and recession (a couple of times!), the AIDS crisis, etc. all with no Facebook or Twitter to complain about how my English professors are piling the patriarchy on me by making me read poetry written by "old white guys" (Shakespeare). Others around here have grown up with much more going on their world- including actually being affected by war (unlike most Bernie millenials).

    So please, stop with making excuses that many Bernie supporters are so angry that they can't be bothered to educate themselves on political history because they grew up "in a time of war" and because of the economy (which is so bad right now that CNN reported this morning that there are TONS of jobs available, but employers can't find enough qualified people quickly enough to fill them).

    Parent

    Jb, I grew up through three wars, (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by fishcamp on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:07:56 PM EST
    make that four  if it's called war with the mess we started in Iraq.  We had to grow, catch, and shoot food during WWll, and just after, and nobody seemed angry.  The next wars, Korea and Vietnam were the beginning of the anger, and of course the mess in the ME is pi$$ ing off the entire world.  

    The young Bernie supporters have the right to be mad ever since  the two Bush's crazy ideas left us with the total mess we're in now.

    I think it takes people like Donald from Hawaii and oculus to point out the mess we're in and scold away.  Glad you're back shooter.

    Parent

    Yes, but Bernie (5.00 / 5) (#78)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:19:30 PM EST
    has to stay until all the primaries are over so as to honor Weaver's pledge that the Sanders tax returns will be released by that time.  And, Jane has not finished them yet.

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:28:51 PM EST
    Those tax returns are never going to be released. There's something in them he doesn't want people to see.

    Parent
    Really Ga, like someone like Sanders (1.50 / 2) (#98)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:27:07 PM EST
    cares what you and your cohorts think.

    At this point, he could turn water into wine and you'd accuse him of grandstanding and promoting underage drinking.

    But while we're on subject, why do you think Hillary is still so afraid of people reading that Goldman Sachs transcript?

    Parent

    So tax (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:26:59 PM EST
    returns which everybody has released is the equivalent of speeches which nobody has released? The double standard on that kind of thing is ridiculous.

    But I really don't care about the tax returns. It only matters at this point if the voters of Vermont care.

    Parent

    Afraid? (5.00 / 3) (#169)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:46:40 AM EST
    More likely cautious. As Bob Somerby pretty accurately predicts the reaction:

    Obviously, we don't know why Clinton is withholding the transcripts. That said, the principle here is blindingly obvious, except to those who pose as reporters and pundits within our "mainstream press corps."

    Clinton has been a targeted pol for decades. You'd have to be extremely clueless not to know what would happen as soon as she released the transcripts of those speeches:

    Some pointless phrase would be yanked out of context and transformed into the latest distraction, entertainment and deeply concerning scandal.



    Parent
    Exactly right (5.00 / 3) (#179)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:56:20 AM EST
    As could happen with any pol's speeches to groups. But only hers are so deeply concerning.

    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 2) (#182)
    by KeysDan on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:17:03 AM EST
    And, the speeches/fees are public knowledge because the Clinton's have released their income tax returns for decades.  Still would like to see the Sanders' returns as well as the Trumps'.  

    Parent
    Why read the transcript, ... (none / 0) (#110)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:17:15 PM EST
    ... when you can watch it online? Here you go. Knock yourself out.

    Parent
    I wasn't talking about the one (1.00 / 1) (#120)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:09:26 PM EST
    that the Clinton campaign thoroughly vetted and determined to be safe for public consumption.

    I'm was referring to that still-only-whispered-about "golden kneepads" speech.

    Parent

    Dogs bark, the caravan passes. (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:33:22 PM EST
    Buh-bye.

    Parent
    Ooh! Conjecture and fiction! (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:24:40 AM EST
    Clearly she MUST have told them secret about how she would work with them to take over the world!  BWAHAHAHA!

    And amazingly, of the HUNDREDS of people at these speeches, not ONE has actually said this or given details.  Oh yeah, the anonymous quote that said she "sounded like a Golden Managing Director" or something.  Ooh!  Damning!

    Parent

    Absence of evidence (none / 0) (#181)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:11:41 AM EST
    is not evidence of innocence.

    Parent
    And being that this is a legal blog (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:26:39 PM EST
    Insinuation is also not evidence.

    Parent
    Influence (none / 0) (#173)
    by FreakyBeaky on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:11:31 AM EST
    ... Does not work through paid speaking gigs. The idea that a golden kneepads speech would even exist is just naive.

    Influence is a phone call reminding you who brung you to the dance. Probably not much is said directly, and definitely not an or else or quid pro quo. None are needed - the fact of the phone call tells you what you need to know.

    Parent

    Officially, as of yesterday, ... (none / 0) (#109)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:14:38 PM EST
    ... I'm beyond caring any more. Bernie not going to be the nominee, so there's really nothing to discuss.

    Parent
    Ha.....as much as I would love a cold day in July (none / 0) (#15)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:33:15 AM EST
    that ain't gonna happen either.

    Parent
    I hated the revolution theme (5.00 / 4) (#8)
    by BarnBabe on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:59:10 AM EST
    With the fist raised and the bitter words of anger seemed like he was bordering on a psyche breakdown. Didn't take his pills for sure. He really brought the wonderful mood down. We were all willing to meet half way on his ideas, but now I have 2nd thoughts. This was the worse I have seen him. No more nice Grandfather. I can picture the Donald calling him and offering the VP position.

    I kept being reminded of Ronald and Nancy. What if the same is happening here. Hope not for his sake. Another horrible disease. But that is far fetched right now. He just was so mean in his speech. Did we check his hair to make sure the roots were not yellow? Can you imagine the Donald yelling from his Barco Lounger, "Go Bernie, Go". Copy me. Get the yelling right and don't back down whether right or wrong.

    Sorry to jump all over him but it really upset me that he left his class and presidential credentials outside of the hanger. What entered was not what I expected. It was like meeting up with a 10 and finding a one in the morning. Woe de me.

    The screeching (5.00 / 4) (#11)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:05:19 AM EST
    about a revolution was a turn off to me too. To me it just says let's blow everything up and hope for the best.

    Parent
    A lot of us are already more than half way on his (5.00 / 7) (#16)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:38:31 AM EST
    ideas....it is just that they are being propagated by someone not qualified to be POTUS.   And his actions now are making it less likely his ideas will take hold, not more.  The young people will be even more disillusioned by the way he is spinning his defeat as having something being stolen from him, and may not engage in the future battles for his ideas. That is the real shame of it.

    To me the worst thing he has done is act like he invented these ideas. While it has been good to remind the Dems to keep them in the forefront, they have always been part of the Dem ideology.

    Parent

    True (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:44:06 AM EST
    Bernie has seriously damaged any idea he purported to care about.

    Parent
    Must disagree old pal... (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:28:27 AM EST
    the ideals Bernie has been advocating for have not been the bedrock of the DNC platform for 25 years at least...and he's a big reason why they are back in play as part of the platform.  No he did not invent them, but you better believe he never abandoned them like third way Dems did when it was deemed politically expedient to do so.  Sure they talked about some of them, but did next to nothing to implement them, or outright abandoned them.  And ya can't place all the blame on Republicans for that mess.

    I'd hate to imagine what President Elect Clinton's platform would look like if not for the old despised crank. And I'm really hope I'm wrong about her commitment to see them through.  I could still totally see a 180 coming upon inauguration and big money donors start making phone calls about TPP or breaking up the financial institutions that are a systemic risk or how a 15 dollar minimum wage is a burden to corporate profits or why universal healthcare is not good for the insurance business.

    From my perspective Bernie has never pretended to invent the ideals many of us here have held dear since Day 1, and have b&tched and moaned about Dems abandoning since I first visited TL over 10 years ago....he just never let the political tide change his course.  That kind of conviction is what I look for in a president...not someone who needs a pollster to tell them where they stand.

    Parent

    Keeping the pressure on is the only way (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:21:05 AM EST
    If the pressure stops when Bernie is not campaigning, then yes, there will be every reason to believe that voters do not care enough about that platform. 2018 is coming. Let's see the turnout in that election.

    Parent
    If you're saying... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:42:39 AM EST
    the ultimate blame is on the voters, I hear that.

    I think signs are good that people will stay engaged in the political revolution post Bernie...Obama may have drawn large crowds too, but I think that was because he was relatively young and hip, handsome, black, and one helluva orator...none of which can be said for the despised crank.  With him, the excitement is/was entirely issue based as he is not hip, not handsome, an old white man, and not much of an orator.  All he got is the issues, and they took him a long way from joke candidacy to serious motherf*ckin' contender.

    Parent

    yeah well he does have one thing in common (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:55:01 PM EST
    with Obama. They were both running against the despised Hillary.

    Future activity will help sort out that factor.

    Parent

    We (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:16:19 PM EST
    shall see but Vox did a big story on how when the details are filled out for voters Bernie's support collapses. That is once they are asked to pay for something they no longer support it.

    An example is Vermont where they attempted Bernie's health care and they weren't even willing to pay for it there.

    Parent

    I don't think it's issues, per se (none / 0) (#164)
    by Trickster on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 05:18:52 AM EST
    It's more that he is just generally to the left and there's a vacuum there to be filled in the Democratic Party. His platform planks don't hold up under close inspection.

    Also anger.  Also anti-Clinton voters.

    Parent

    I don't really agree (5.00 / 3) (#152)
    by Trickster on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:45:50 PM EST
    I like it that he is out to the left, but insofar as his specific platform goes, almost all of it is very poorly planned or impractical.

    I think the positive impact of his campaign is that it shows there is an active political market - finally - for a move to the left. But as to his specific platform, it's stinko, and as for him, he would be a bloody awful President. Hot-tempered, incapable of negotiation or diplomacy, judgmental, and not very knowledgeable of government or policy.

    Parent

    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#154)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:06:07 PM EST
    Hot-tempered, incapable of negotiation or diplomacy, judgmental, and not very knowledgeable of government or policy.

    That part sounds like you are describing Trump.

    Parent

    Let's not forget (none / 0) (#168)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:42:15 AM EST
    The history of how Bernie won a Congressional office first, and then, a Senate seat.  He cut deals with Dems to allow him to "appear" more leftist than he is

    In other words, he's a pol, just like everyone else.

    Sanders did not "f[i]ght the Democratic establishment in Vermont his entire career." As the left University of Vermont philosopher Will Miller noted in a 1999 essay recounting left peace activists' occupation of then U.S. Congressman Bernie Sanders' Burlington, Vermont office to protest Sanders' support of the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia and the ongoing U.S. War on Iraq, Sanders sold out to the corporate and war Democrats as early as 1990.

    Between 1981 and 1988, it is true, Sanders "presented himself to the left outside of Vermont as the leader of the third party movement, vanquishing the two major parties in every Mayoral election." But in 1988, Sanders got a lesson on the perils of third party politics when he ran for federal office. In the election for Vermont's seat in the House of Representatives, the independent Sanders and Democrat Paul Poirer divided the majority vote and the contest went to a Republican. Sanders responded by drifting right and cutting a deal with the Vermont Democrats: the party would permit no serious candidate to run against him while he blocked serious third party formation in Vermont and adopted positions in line with the national corporate war Democrats.

    SNIP

    When Sanders decided to make a bid for an open U.S. Senate seat in 2005, his longstanding service to the corporate Democrats won him the critical endorsement of Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Schumer's backing meant that no Democrat running against Sanders could receive financial help from the party. Sanders was also supported by Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nevada) and Democratic National Committee Chair and Chairman and former Vermont Governor Howard Dean, who described Sanders as an "ally who votes with the Democrats ninety eight percent of the time." Then-U.S. Senator Barack Obama campaigned for Sanders in Vermont.

    As when he was in the U.S, House, Senatorial candidate Sanders made a curious deal with the Vermont Democratic Party: he agreed to be listed on their primary ballot but to decline the nomination should he win, which he did.

    The "independent" Sanders has enjoyed a special agreement with the Democratic leadership in the U.S. Senate. He votes with the Democrats on all procedural matters in exchange for the committee seats and seniority that would be available to him as a Democrat. (He can break this rule in some exceptional cases if Democratic Senate Whip Dick Durbin agrees, but the request is rarely made.) Sanders is free to vote as he wishes on policy matters, but he has almost always voted with the Democrats.

    So, he'll be fine, we'll be fine, and we can all now go and enjoy our summer and pop some popcorn to watch the insanity in Cleveland unfold.

    Parent

    Wow. (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by sallywally on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:49:16 AM EST
    I almost wonder if he has gone off his meds. He is delusional, biting the hand that has fed him and demanding way beyond what he has a right to demand. I surely hope Obama can knock some sense into him today.

    Parent
    Dawg, what did you think of Bernie's speech? (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:13:37 PM EST


    Parent
    Just heard snippets... (none / 0) (#95)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:16:52 PM EST
    And as usual I like what I heard from TL's persona non grata. "The struggle continues..." Amen.

    Parent
    I said it Monday (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:56:24 AM EST
    Sanders, his campaign and his supporters have become ridiculous.  Forget um.

    They are all now officially irrelevant.  

    Hillary has (5.00 / 3) (#19)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:05:25 AM EST
    been completely gracious towards Sanders and his supporters. There's really nothing else that can be done. They'll decide to come along or they won't.

    Parent
    Good chance (5.00 / 3) (#24)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:54:04 AM EST
    She doesn't need the left as much as pro-Sanders liberals think

    -- Hillary's strong finish last night demonstrated that she does not need a vice president from the Elizabeth Warren wing of the party. If she wants this election to be a referendum on Trump and Trumpism, picking a populist firebrand like the Massachusetts senator is only a distraction and polarizes the choice for independents. It takes the attention off Trump. (It's also hard to imagine the Clintons, who place such a premium on loyalty, picking the only Democratic woman in the Senate who steadfastly refused to back them during the primaries.) She could still, of course, choose someone from this wing of the party, but the chatter will probably die down a bit. A Warren adviser is quoted in the Rucker/Balz story saying that the senator "takes the threat of Trump very seriously and she takes seriously her potential role in helping unify the party."

    -- Clinton will still need to make minor concessions to Sanders, such as in the party's platform. The Sanders wing wants new language on issues like trade, fracking, Social Security and Citizens United. Those are relatively easy, non-binding "gives."



    Parent
    I don't believe Warren is a good choice (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by ExPatObserver on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:14:56 AM EST
    She is an excellent Senator, but isn't she a bit narrow in her range of issues?
    She can be quite effective attacking Trump from the sidelines. Since he responds (making himself a fool), why do we need to make her V.P.?
    She can snipe from the sidelines with no damage to Clinton.

    Parent
    I have been a Warren as VP supporter (none / 0) (#41)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:18:53 AM EST
    But I'm coming around to your view.  What you said but she is also the same generation as Hillary.  We probably need to think about who can run in 8 years.  There are many good choices.

    And with the implosion of Trump I think salving the Bernie or Busters is becoming less important by the day.

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:32:46 AM EST
    was thinking about Jeff Merkley if Hillary thought she needed an olive branch to offer Sander's supporters. Don't know too much about him, but as the only Sanders supporter from the Senate, there is certainly nothing Bernie could whine about. Also the Dems would not be forfeiting a Senate seat.

    Parent
    Harry Reid (5.00 / 3) (#143)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:35:31 PM EST
    supposedly wants Elizabeth Warren to be Hillary's VP

    that's one discussion

    here's another: f u, Harry - don't let the door, etc.

    Parent

    Trump is spontaneously combusting (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:42:04 AM EST
    Bernie or Busters can to afaiac

    Parent
    lol. "new language" (none / 0) (#75)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:56:35 PM EST
    i.e., new meaningless pandering and bull$hit.

    Parent
    His campaign (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:15:30 AM EST
    And HRC's have been in talks for a while about winding this down.  Let him stay in until he gets clobbered in DC next week. It will just make him more diminished and pathetic, but if he wants to let everyone vote, then fine.

    He's laying off half his staff - mostly advance staff and people whose jobs have ended, and he isn't opening offices in battleground states, so he knows he's done. No, or small advance staff means his rally in DC will be his last most likely.

    I'm still hearing whines about "The superdelegates don't vote until the convention!"  Bernie's biggest task, if he ever wants things like to chair a committee or any other perks from the Dems, is to bring his supporters in line.  They don't have to like HRC, or even vote for her, but he needs to not let them get away with booing her or other such nonsense in his presence.

    Allowing (5.00 / 4) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:20:44 AM EST
    them to boo was completely low class behavior from Bernie.

    BTW you are a prolific little twitter bug!

    Parent

    Isn't the loser supposed to call (5.00 / 7) (#36)
    by vml68 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:58:17 AM EST
    and congratulate the winner?
    It annoyed me that Hillary called him and he congratulated her on 'her wins'. How about he congratulates her on making history.

    Parent
    It's becomng an addiction (none / 0) (#23)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:36:39 AM EST
    And making me pi$$ed off, so I really need to stop or at least cut back! 😆

    Parent
    If you are good at it (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:43:51 AM EST
    It's an enviable skill. I know a Veteran spouse who used Twitter to force the VA to begin caring for her husband immediately after he suffered a heart attack. No 30 day wait for him!

    Parent
    I don't (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:59:14 AM EST
    know what is making you pissed off but mostly with me it makes my eyes glaze over. LOL.

    Parent
    That's my biggest fear about Twitter -- addiction. (none / 0) (#161)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 02:33:56 AM EST
    I  tend to check in now and then on BTD (@armandodkos), but honestly, all I often see is an awful lot of flamethrowing, some of it creative, but generally sort of the adult equivalent of a high school cafeteria food fight. I could see myself being sucked right into that vortex if I had an account. "Must -- fling -- mud."

    Parent
    While (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Nemi on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:15:25 AM EST
    noone booed when Hillary Clinton complimented Bernie Sanders on his run. Classy! From the top down.

    Parent
    yeah, me too, and it's getting tiresome. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:40:26 AM EST
    "I'm still hearing whines about "The superdelegates don't vote until the convention!"

    statistically, Sen. Sanders has a better chance of being hit by lightening and run over by a truck, at the same time, then getting any of the super delegates to change their minds and vote for him at the convention. ain't gonna happen.

    Parent

    Sanders plan (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:15:28 AM EST
    Win California and flip SD's

    Reality: smoked in California which paves the way for a Sanders' SD's exodus.

    Sanders SD's Senator Merkley and Rep Grijalva say it's time to back the nominee.

    I noticed (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:43:29 AM EST
    lesser known super delegates have started to abandon Bernie today. I guess the higher profile ones will be later.

    Parent
    After Merkley (none / 0) (#81)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:45:57 PM EST
    Sanders has no high profile SD's to flip. He was the only Senator for Sanders.

    If you meant "stayed on the sidelines" high profile SD's like Obama, Biden and Warren, then yes I suspect they will all go public for Clinton over the next ten days

    Parent

    I just (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:58:27 AM EST
    saw a clip from Morning Joe where Joe exhorted the GOP to stand up to Trump and quit using Hillary Clinton as an excuse to support Trump because using Hillary doesn't work because in the end you're still supporting a racist candidate.

    I saw that (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:15:26 AM EST
    It was pretty intense.

    Parent
    It keeps being mentioned that pushing (5.00 / 5) (#43)
    by vml68 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:29:09 AM EST
    Sanders to concede is unfair because Hillary did not concede when Obama got enough delegates to become the presumptive nominee. That's true, it took her 4 days to concede.
    But, this is what she said on the day Obama became the presumptive nominee

    ..."And in the coming days, I'll be consulting with supporters and party leaders to determine how to move forward with the best interests of our party and our country guiding my way.

    "I am committed to uniting our party so we move forward stronger and more ready than ever to take back the White House this November."

    "I want to start tonight by congratulating Senator Obama and his supporters on the extraordinary race that they have run.

    "Senator Obama has inspired so many Americans to care about politics and empowered so many more to get involved. And our party and our democracy is stronger and more vibrant as a result. So we are grateful.

    "And it has been an honor to contest these primaries with him, just as it is an honor to call him my friend. And, tonight, I would like all of us to take a moment to recognize him and his supporters for all they have accomplished."

    Contrast this with Bernie's speech last night. He could learn a thing or two from her on how to be a gracious loser.
    There is no doubt in my mind which one of the two I want to see as POTUS.

    Oops! I got my quotes out of order. (none / 0) (#70)
    by vml68 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:42:51 PM EST
    Hillary started her speech with her congratulations to Obama and later in her speech she talked about being committed to uniting the party.

    Parent
    Let's take a moment to recognize Secretary Clinton (none / 0) (#165)
    by Trickster on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 05:21:49 AM EST
    Booooooooo. . . .

    Parent
    Bernie is (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:31:52 AM EST
    exasperating not only in his sore loser behavior, but also, in misleading earnest supporters to the point of their mass delusion.

     However, Democrats need to take the lead from Mrs. Clinton in offering not just an olive branch, but the whole olive tree.  She knows the feelings and disappointments of a campaign and is willing to work with Sanders by giving some time, and  some leeway. Of course, this will have its limits, but, for now, no sore winners need apply, should be the motto.

    The easy route is to tell Bernie et al. to take a hike, but this is not productive, losing sight of the real threat: Trump.  A bad week for Trump, but he is likely to re-gain his footing in the muck appreciated by his supporters.  

      Not with those deadly, boring, and more temperate teleprompter speeches hoped for by the likes of Ryan and McConnell, but with his racist and bombastic calling cards. Not a pretty picture, but still a threat not to be taken lightly.  Reducing the risk by uniting as many of the Sanders supporters as possible is worth the effort.  

    KeysDan, what you say is the sensible and (5.00 / 10) (#50)
    by vml68 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:47:22 AM EST
    practical thing to do and I have no doubt that Hillary will do it.
    But, this sore winner is struggling with it. When Hillary lost in 2008, there was no talk of coddling her or giving in to any demands to soothe her bruised ego. She was expected to suck it up and move on and make peace.
    Yet, here we are with her as the winner this time and yet again she is the one who has to make peace.

    Why are women always expected to cater to fragile male egos win or lose?
     

    Parent

    Read today (none / 0) (#69)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:33:05 PM EST
    Somewhere, can't remember where (Gkenn Thrush in Politico, I think), that HRC surrogates were on lockdown from pressuring Bernie to make a quick exit, but today, the gloves are off and the hounds have been released.

    And Bernie requested a meeting with Obama for tomorrow - maybe a final plea to change his mind or to ensure there is no "indictment" coming?  No clue.

    Parent

    I think President Obama (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:37:54 PM EST
    and Secretary Clinton are agreed in providing time for Bernie to pretend a bit longer, for the sake of his enthusiastic and young supporters. And, for Bernie, himself, to come to grips with the fact that there is no way for him to win, having lost.

    My sense is that while it will be difficult to engage the more entrenched Bernie Bros types in any rational way, a preponderance of Bernie supporters will transition readily to Hillary Clinton, as the presumptive nominee.  

    And, it would not be surprising if some Bernie supporters do so with a sense of relief--acknowledging, albeit reluctantly, that while Bernie offered a burst of energy for progressive thought, reservations emerged when it came to temperament and prospects for an effective presidency.

    Parent

    I hope he comes to grips fast. (none / 0) (#102)
    by vml68 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:36:55 PM EST
    The first line from a press release from his campaign today...

    To chants of "Bernie or Bust," U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders told a roaring crowd of supporters on Tuesday that he will carry his White House campaign and their fight for a political revolution to this summer's Democratic National Convention.
    [Bold is mine]

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:41:50 PM EST
    Obama and Reid are meeting with him tomorrow. I imagine Reid can do a lot to make his life miserable in the senate.

    Parent
    Can they do some version of (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by vml68 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:50:26 PM EST
    this for him? LOL!!

    Parent
    I don't know (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:00:33 PM EST
    they might be able to. At this point Bernie is not really going to be negotiating from a point of strength.

    Parent
    isn't Reid retiring in January? (none / 0) (#147)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:59:31 PM EST


    Parent
    He has no cards left to play (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:50:37 PM EST
    his leverage disappeared when the polls opened yesterday. What little leverage he had before yesterday went poof in California.

    Parent
    Would I vote for HRC if she was a man??? (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by Cashmere on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:56:48 PM EST
    I don't discuss politics much at work, but my mostly male colleagues know that I have supported Hillary for years. Just now, while having a meeting at my desk, a male colleague asked me if I would be voting for HRC if she was male.. I refrained from sounding annoyed (at least I hope I did), but I replied that I would be voting for the Democratic Nominee, regardless of gender or race, as I have for my entire life, as I support their platform. I mentioned that I have, as a result, voted for only males since I was 18. Sheesh!

    They apparently (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:03:31 PM EST
    have no idea how they sound do they?

    Parent
    No, we don't. We're men, and we don't care. (none / 0) (#112)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:26:47 PM EST
    Anyway, ladies, I'm starved! Whaddaya say you rustle me up some lunch and a cold brewski?

    Uh, what's up with those 2x4s in your hands?

    ;-D

    Parent

    How about (none / 0) (#194)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:54:04 PM EST
    Would you vote for Sanders or Trump if they were women?

    Parent
    Can (5.00 / 3) (#201)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:10:38 PM EST
    you see the cranky old lady Bernice Sanders who looks like she needs to comb her hair wearing frumpy clothes and wagging that finger at you? Think about it. Bernice Sanders would have gotten all of 5 votes in a primary.

    Parent
    Sanders supporters who (5.00 / 2) (#91)
    by smott on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:45:37 PM EST
    Say they will vote for Trump merely show themselves to be anti-Clinton more than pro-Sanders or any of his policies.

    I've often wondered how much of Sander's glow is merely reflected hatred for Clinton, and I guess we'll find out.

    How many of (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:51:53 PM EST
    them would actually vote for Bernie if he was the nominee? How many were Republicans actually looking to mess around in our primary trying to nominate the weaker candidate?

    Parent
    Whoever they are (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by smott on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:27:31 PM EST
    They will make the convention an adventure.
    Imagine DWS getting booed off the stage.

    Clinton may hear boos.
    It's not even a matter of Sanders being unable to keep his idiots in line.
    He's the chief idiot.

    Parent

    There's an old (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:39:38 PM EST
    saying about don't stir up that which you cannot control. Of course Bernie has been stirring the pot for quite a while not without any attempt to shut it down. Maybe things will cool down by the time the convention comes around.

    You know I would have thought it would have been a good idea to let Bernie's delegates have a vote for him which was denied Hillary in 2008 but if it's going to be ugly behavior then forget it.

    Parent

    Well, Hillary could preclude all that ... (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:45:08 PM EST
    ... by moving the convention on its final night to Franklin Field where the NFL Eagles play, and then flooding that stadium with her supporters for her acceptance speech, while confining unruly Sanders delegate to the upper level nosebleed section.

    It worked for Barack Obama in Denver.

    Parent

    The Eagles do not play (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Peter G on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:41:01 PM EST
    at Franklin Field, which is a university stadium at Penn, which is not in the same part of the City. Just sayin'. However, where the Eagles do play is in fact part of the sports complex where the Demo convention is being held.

    Parent
    Thank you, Peter. (none / 0) (#159)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 02:01:52 AM EST
    I gladly stand corrected. I'm not a Philadelphia Eagles fan, and all I know is that they built a new stadium not too long ago and moved out of that '70s-era cookie-cutter facility they once shared with MLB's Phillies.

    Parent
    Your showing your age... (none / 0) (#157)
    by desertswine on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:23:57 AM EST
    The Eagles did play at Franklin Field, from 1958 to 1970.  Sometimes these things stay in our heads.

    Parent
    The name stuck with me. (none / 0) (#160)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 02:05:05 AM EST
    I remember the Eagles playing at the multi-purpose Veterans Stadium. Who uses Franklin Stadium today -- the Temple Owls and Penn Quakers, maybe?

    Parent
    Hillary Clinton's big win (5.00 / 4) (#153)
    by mogal on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:03:36 PM EST
    Andrea Mitchell wondered last  night why it had taken Hillary so long to get to this point with all her experience.  My mother and I both jumped up and yelled "she's a woman!"

    Couldn't believe she would expose her bias in such a manner. Should have asked if Bernie would be questioning  a man's win  in such a manner?

    Ha! I don't know Andrea, why don't you have (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:34:57 PM EST
    your own show? You're no dumber than anyone else on your network.

    Parent
    Joking? (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:49:51 PM EST
    She totally has own show.  I have wondered why many times.  Andrea Mitchell Reports.  Or Dishes.   Or Throws Shade.

    Parent
    Mrs. Greenspan (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 04:40:43 AM EST
    is not a journalist but a concern troll when it comes to Hillary.

    Parent
    Obama Sanders meeting (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:54:08 AM EST
    It's times like this when you really wish the president would do one of those Frank Underwood breaking the 4th wall things.

    I'm 100 (none / 0) (#183)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:21:32 AM EST
    percent with you on that one. Wouldn't we all just love to be a fly on that wall.

    Parent
    I'm guessing (5.00 / 1) (#190)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:36:42 PM EST
    There won't be beer at this one.

    Parent
    In Response to BarnBabe's Post (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Jane in CA on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 02:33:27 PM EST
    re: possible dementia? Sorry to tack it on at the tail end of the thread, but for some reason, the 'reply to' function is not working for me on this particular thread.

    I just wanted to say that it is odd to read that when I have just heard the same thing speculated over the last three days by three different folks --only one of whom was a Democrat. The way he is acting has a lot of people seriously wondering about his ability to hold even a senate office. And mostly this is coming from Green Party folks, who I expect would be part of his natural constituency.

    For all the caterwauling (1.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:25:53 AM EST
    here against Bernie Sanders, there are some things being forgotten. I heard on NPR "All Thing Considered" yesterday that in their most recent poll, fully 1/3 of Sanders supporters will NOT vote for Hillary Clinton in November. That's a problem. Also, most polling still shows Bernie beating Trump by 10 points, where Hillary Clinton is squeaking by with a mere 2 points. Perhaps crowning Mrs. Clinton is not the best path forward.

    Those (5.00 / 4) (#30)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:39:48 AM EST
    polls with Bernie vs. Trump are completely worthless. If the GOP wanted to create a candidate in a lab to run against it would be Bernie Sanders. Just because the national media has not vetted Bernie does not mean the GOP would not. They would and it would be downright ugly.

    And there were even more people that said they would not vote for Obama in 2008 after the primaries.

    However like the article above jb linked to it is a large possibility that she might not even need those voters. So those voters can decided to come along or not come along. It's up to them.

    Parent

    then they are either idiots, or members of (5.00 / 6) (#35)
    by cpinva on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:50:25 AM EST
    "I heard on NPR "All Thing Considered" yesterday that in their most recent poll, fully 1/3 of Sanders supporters will NOT vote for Hillary Clinton in November."

    the "Cult of Bernie", and not actual Democrats, just as Sen. Sanders has never been, except for just now, when it suited his purposes. anyone dumb enough to even consider voting for Trump, or not voting at all, is just too stupid to be taken seriously.

    while it would certainly be nice if they did get ahold of reason, and vote for Ms. Clinton in Nov., their not voting, or voting for Trump, will not, in the end, make any difference in the eventual outcome, they will just look like morons to anyone who knows them.

    Sen. Sanders statements and actions have destroyed whatever legitimacy he had, with a huge part of the liberal/progressive coalition. if he has any hopes of having serious input at the convention, he needs to get his act together, now, and get with the program. he also needs to tell his supporters, that if they truly believe in his causes, they too need to get their acts together, and unite behind Ms. Clinton, and all the down ballot D candidates.

    Parent

    Give it up Chuck... (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:35:46 AM EST
    I agree that Bernie is a better match-up against Drumph, here in the year of anti-establishment furor...but you'll convince no one of that here.  We're idiots! ;)

    And I would not want the Super D's to supersede the will of the voters anyway, as flawed as the primary/caucus system is, and despite that is what Super D's are designed to do.  That's not democracy...even if it would put my horse in the big race, I'd rather lose than win in a shady backroom way.


    Parent

    Anti-establishment (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:55:27 AM EST
    furor is apparently mostly a media creation since Bernie couldn't win.

    Parent
    Disagree... (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:49:32 AM EST
    it brought him from a zero delegate kinda candidate (a la Denis Kuchinich) to an over 1500 delegate kinda guy.  That's anti-establishment furor on display on the left.  And on the right, the furor won in a landslide.

    The furor is real, ignore it at Hillary's peril...the national head to head polls despite the disarray of the Republicans should tell you something.  Though (hopefully), Trump finally stepped in some sh*t she can scrap off so easy with his boneheaded comments on the All-American judge he claims is Mexican.  

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:51:46 PM EST
    the furor didn't win in a landslide on the right. Trump got a majority in a three way or more race. Bernie got 1/2 of his delegates in undemocratic caucuses. I hardly think that ranks as "furor". And now the GOP can't shoot fast enough to get rid of Trump. So no, it's definitely not winning by a long shot.

    Parent
    Actually Kdog (none / 0) (#88)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:13:23 PM EST
    I'm not trying to convince anyone. I sort of agree that it's time for Bernie to step out. He is fighting a losing battle and doing the Dems no favors at this point. I know now that I will be holding my nose and voting for Mrs. Clinton in November. But, yes, I will vote for her. Anything else is a wasted vote. My only other option is leave. I cannot, will not live in a country that has Donald Trump as it's head of state, commander in chief, etc. I always been enthralled with Chile. I've got my eye on Concepcion. Wanted to wait another 5 years to retire, but President Trump will push me over the edge. So for me, it's President Clinton, part deux or leave.

    Parent
    I'm not too worried... (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:25:05 PM EST
    even a candidate as flawed as Clinton should mop up a flawed human being such as Donald F+ckin' Trump. We Americans may be stupid but we ain't crazy!

    And God forbid Trump does win, I ain't gonna move...we will survive just like we survived Reagan, Bush, & Bush.  Embarrassed and ashamed, but we will survive...and may be better for it when we elect a candidate that makes Bernie Sanders look like Jack Kemp in 4 short years.

    Clinton is but a slight speed bump in a big leftward swing in this country IMO.

    Parent

    Is the concensus amongst (none / 0) (#111)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:18:44 PM EST
    your sources that HRC is to the right of Obama? Certainly was not the opinion here in 2008.

    Parent
    Right of Obama... (none / 0) (#121)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:10:22 PM EST
    only on foreign policy...domestically pretty much same sh:t different color/gender.

    Parent
    Add... (none / 0) (#129)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:58:56 PM EST
    economy-wise, two Wall St. peas in a pod.

    This time next year Obama will be cleaning up speaking for Lloyd...no doubt. Payback time Lloyd, and don't forget to wet Holder's beak!

    Parent

    Just making sure you are including Obama as part (none / 0) (#144)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:35:47 PM EST
    of the speed bump in the analogy.

    I think of it as an on-ramp to the progressive highway!!!

    Parent

    The Power of Positive Thinking... (none / 0) (#174)
    by kdog on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:45:18 AM EST
    something to be said for that!

    I'm still feeling too much of the third-way burn for that I guess, hence The Bern.  

    Parent

    Both numbers are meaningless right now (none / 0) (#28)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:34:43 AM EST
    a large segment of Clinton supporters said they would never back Obama (we did). And Bernie's numbers against Trump are as meaningful as Deez Nutz against Trump. Neither of them will be on the ballot.

    Parent
    Bernie can not beat Trump (none / 0) (#29)
    by ding7777 on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:38:13 AM EST
    without Hillary's millions upon millions supporters

    Parent
    But how do you reconcile such polling, ... (none / 0) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:14:48 PM EST
    ... which "still shows Bernie beating Trump by 10 points, where Hillary Clinton is squeaking by with a mere 2 points[,]" with the fact that Hillary pretty much walloped Bernie at the ballot box yesterday? In fact, including yesterday's results, she's won 16 of their last 21 state contests.

    Polls such as the ones you're citing are beyond meaningless. Democrats clearly favor Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders by an almost 4-million vote margin. And more to the point, how can you not see that what you and a lot of other Bernie supporters are advocating -- that the superdelegates should simply ignore the collective will of the Democratic majority vote and throw their support to Sen. Sanders, because he ostensibly polls better -- actually undermines the very rationale your candidate first offered when he initially entered this race last year?

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Democrats (2.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 09:52:18 AM EST
    are not the only people who vote in the general elections. HRC can win amongst Democrats all day. But it seems polling shows that the general electorate prefers Sanders over Clinton against Trump.

    As I said in a prior post, I realize it's moot. HRC will be the nominee and I will hold my nose and vote for her in November.

    Parent

    Well, I suppose that we should thank you ... (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:00:01 PM EST
    Chuck0: "As I said in a prior post, I realize it's moot. HRC will be the nominee and I will hold my nose and vote for her in November."

    ... for even granting us this great favor, by which you'll deign to "hold your nose" and lower yourself to our foul and corrupt level this coming November. Perhaps you'd also like us to buy you a beer afterward for your trouble.

    Such unnecessarily contemptuous and patronizing displays of moral superiority on the part of more than a few of Bernie's supporters are part of the reason why the guy ultimately lost.

    Please understand that we're going to win in November, regardless of whether or not you choose to join us. If you decide to vote for Hillary Clinton, it will be due to the fact that you've determined it to be in your own very best interest to do so, and not because you're seeking to be charitable to her network of moral inferiors.

    Have a nice day.

    Parent

    "Polling" (none / 0) (#177)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 10:02:58 AM EST
    Re:  Bernie vs Trump in the fall is completely meaningless in so many ways, aside from the fact that Bernie will not be on the ballot.

    Parent
    as Gene Lyons famously said . . . (none / 0) (#2)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:23:44 AM EST
    Bernie is an "unelectable crank"

    but he has every right to stay in, & i say that as someone who voted for Hillary today in California, as i also did in 2008

    is the party really so panicked about the Donald?

    I don't think (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:35:51 AM EST
    anyone is panicked so much as tired of Bernie and the nonsense he has been shopping.

    Parent
    Alameda County went for Hillary Clinton ... (4.00 / 4) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:49:30 AM EST
    ... by a solid 9-pt. margin, so you had a lot of company. I thought San Francisco might go for Bernie, but she beat him there by an even bigger 12-pt. margin. Given the amount of resources and effort Bernie invested in California, this was a very solid win for Hillary tonight, perhaps her most satisfying and defining of the primary season.

    Parent
    So sorry, BackFromOhio, that I didn't say ... (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:59:08 PM EST
    ... what you apparently and so desperately wanted to hear. I'll wear that "1" rating with honor. Hillary Clinton won California yesterday in decisive fashion by double digits, after the media spent a better part of two weeks telling us that she was in trouble there. Obviously, she wasn't. Put on your big boy / girl pants and deal with it.

    Mrs. Clinton has now won a majority of both pledged delegates and the popular vote, and she's secured the support of 90%-plus of the superdelegates. If you still can't stand her, that's fine, but please realize that a decided majority of Democrats have now made it very clear that they preferred her to Bernie Sanders as their party's nominee.

    There's nothing rigged or unfair about any of that. Hillary's voters aren't inherently corrupt, delusional or brainwashed. It's just the way things go sometimes in politics. Somebody wins, and somebody else doesn't. That's why we have elections.

    Bernie's supporters ought to be very proud of what their candidate has accomplished this year, without allowing their revolution to devolve into an extended temper tantrum. Campaigns end, and Bernie's is done. Causes endure.

    Think about it.

    Parent

    Trump campaign spokespersons (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:38:47 AM EST
    On the nooze this morning claiming that Sanders supporters will transition to Trump voters.....

    How?

    Some will (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:43:40 AM EST
    Not enough to matter much

    Parent
    If someone is a Sanders supporter (5.00 / 5) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:46:48 AM EST
    And they believe that Trump is a reasonable replacement for the Sanders campaign platform they were fighting for, what they have really needed all along was therapy.

    Parent
    There (5.00 / 3) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:57:42 AM EST
    are Bernie supporters that are all about privilege and feel that minorities and women are taking "their" jobs. They will be a natural fit for Trump as the specifics don't matter.

    Parent
    Damn sad (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:01:41 AM EST


    Parent
    "There are.." (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by jondee on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:47:40 PM EST
    how many exactly?

    You have some study to refer to back up that assertion?

    Bill's former pet snake Dick Morris could do better than that.

    Parent

    We'll (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:32:39 PM EST
    see in polling over the next few months exactly what the number is. Oh, but they're all over blogs infecting them screaming about "that woman".

    It's quite obvious though that Bernie wants to return to the past much like Trump does because Bernie says women's issues are "distraction".

    Parent

    Not arguing (none / 0) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:55:30 AM EST
    Just sayin.  They are out there.

    Parent
    Gary Johnson... (none / 0) (#51)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:48:11 AM EST
    may be the big winner of the liberal "I can't go there" vote. Or Jill Stein.

    The Trump campaign is delusional...but we already knew that.  They need to be worried about all the conservative defectors going to Hillarym which will be a far greater number than liberal defectors imo.

    Parent

    I agree with the last paragraph (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 10:56:59 AM EST
    But if voters bother to find out what Johnson really supports and they vote for him, they were never progressives.

    Parent
    (Sigh!) So it's back to Jill Stein again, huh? (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:40:34 PM EST
    She sure was classy last night, as always. Just be glad you don't live in Arizona, kdog, where she failed to do the work necessary to even qualify for the November ballot -- probably because she was too busy tweeting about how hopelessly corrupt Hillary and the rest of us Democrats are.

    Parent
    Just like the bearded lady and the two headed goat (none / 0) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:02:40 AM EST
    both are sideshows along with the other 20 nameless folks that will appear on the ballot in one state or another.

    Parent
    Aside (none / 0) (#58)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:17:02 AM EST
    from social issues and some FP, the Libertarian platform is diametrically opposed to most of Bernie's. 15 dollar minimum wage, how about 0? Free college, how about 0 federal support for education? On and on these guys are total small government free market absolutists.

    Parent
    Sh*t man... (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by kdog on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:55:33 AM EST
    sometimes I wonder if we're better off going full socialist or full libertarian...I think either beats oligarchy posing as a regulated free market republic.

    There's alotta bad news in libertarianism, and socialism for that matter ...but they both have their big positives too.  On the Libertarian side, a total surrender of the drug war, ending the death penalty and over-incarceration, non-interventionist foreign policy are but three examples I can get down with and vote for...big time.

    Parent

    An oligarchy always forms (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:58:39 AM EST
    In every attempted political system. It's the fight that never ends.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#73)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:53:23 PM EST
    look no further than socialist countries that have a ton of starving people with the ones on the top being very wealthy and pampered.

    Parent
    What "socialist countries?" (none / 0) (#76)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:04:14 PM EST
    Nobody starves in the EU or Scandanavia.

    Fake socialism doesn't count, although it's the usual end when "revolution" is the means.

    Parent

    South American (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:07:24 PM EST
    countries and from what I understand Denmark at least told Bernie to quit calling them socialist and that they are a market based economy.

    Parent
    Neither the Scandinavian (none / 0) (#90)
    by Nemi on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:43:55 PM EST
    nor any other EU or European countries are 'self declared' socialist. In EU Portugal seems to come closest with a constitutional reference to socialism.

    Parent
    Socialist democracies is how they think (none / 0) (#123)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:19:28 PM EST
    of themselves.  No fear of free enterprise, although the tax burden is very high.

    Parent
    No, not really (none / 0) (#170)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 07:59:15 AM EST
    It's Social, without the -ism. :) As in Social Democracy.

    Parent
    Green Party (none / 0) (#71)
    by jbindc on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:45:12 PM EST
    Will not be on the ballot in Arizona because they missed the filing deadline. I'm sure this won't be the last.

    Parent
    They'll transition when Trump offers (none / 0) (#59)
    by Farmboy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:18:09 AM EST
    the VP slot to Bernie, and he accepts.

    Parent
    All joking (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:31:24 AM EST
    aside I would not be surprised to see Trump offer him the VP spot.

    Parent
    I've seen online comments from Sanders' (5.00 / 3) (#66)
    by Farmboy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 11:56:00 AM EST
    supporters who actually think this is not only a possibility but a good idea.

    Of course, the end goal is apparently all about preventing Vince Foster's murderess from sacrificing more ambassadors to Allah in order to bring about the open-marriage-blue-dress 1% end times. Plus getting another shot at the W's on the WH keyboards.

    Or something like that. It's all rather jumbled together, like they're yelling at the Rush/Drudge/FOX description of Hillary rather than the real person.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 12:54:13 PM EST
    it would seem to put all the crazies into one box.

    Parent
    Yves Smith at Politico: (none / 0) (#96)
    by Nemi on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:19:49 PM EST
    Why Some of the Smartest Progressives I Know Will Vote for Trump over Hillary. Smartest!? Well, well ...

    The commenters at Politico mostly seem to disagree, but 'home' at Naked Capitalism, all her regular readers including Yves Smith herself agree and shake their head in despair at those low information voters at Politico. The general sentiment is summed up by one of her regular 'smart progressives' (I presume?) saying about those commenters

    You wrote a great article. If they can't appreciate it, Trump is exactly what they deserve.

    The alleged smartness ... it berns!

    Parent

    Nice find (none / 0) (#115)
    by ragebot on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:43:18 PM EST
    Mostly about how Sander's ideas about economics fit in better with his supporters than Clinton's more status quo ideas about economics.  Trump's economic ideas also better fit Sander's supporters than Clinton's ideas so a switch to Trump makes sense.

    But this blurb from the article stood out for me as something I had not considered:

    The Sanders voters in Naked Capitalism's active commentariat also explicitly reject lesser-evilism, the cudgel that has previously kept true lefties somewhat in line. They are willing to gamble, given that outsider presidents like Jimmy Carter and celebrity governors like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jesse Ventura didn't get much done, that a Trump presidency represents an acceptable cost of inflicting punishment on the Democratic Party for 20 years of selling out ordinary Americans.



    Parent
    I considered that they might feel that way (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:53:00 PM EST
    I can see that point, and it might very well be true,  but it is not a risk I am willing to take. Their mileage may vary. I do not think there are enough people willing to take that leap to make a difference.

    Parent
    One of several things (none / 0) (#171)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:13:33 AM EST
    that surprised me in that piece -- apart from the houlier and more knowledgeable than thou attitude -- though maybe it shouldn't have, was the description of NC-readers' demography:

    Its readership is disproportionately graduate school-educated, older, male and high income ...

    ... which maybe explains the attitude? And why Politico's readers reacted so very differently?

    Parent

    Good God!!! (none / 0) (#136)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:55:10 PM EST


    Parent
    The Washington Post (none / 0) (#85)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 01:59:56 PM EST
    lists 27 possible VP picks for Clinton. I tossed a bunch for a variety of reasons. None chosen due to my own preferences.

    27 Possibles

    I'm left with 10 (in alphabetical order)

    Booker
    Brown
    Julian Castro
    O'Malley
    Patrick
    Salazar
    Shaheen
    Vilsack
    Warner
    Warren

    Some of those (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:07:09 PM EST
    are untenable. She can't pick Cuomo because he's from NY or Gillibrand. I would add Perez. There's been a lot of talk about him.

    Parent
    Joe Biden is on the WaPo (5.00 / 3) (#89)
    by caseyOR on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 02:27:59 PM EST
    list of possible VPs. Too funny.

    I would eliminate any senator from a state with e GOP governor simply because Clinton is no dummy. She knows she will need every Democratic senator she can possibly get.

    Vilsack is, IMO, out if only because of his frenetic support for TPP. Clinton does not need to have any part of this campaign focused on defending her VP from attacks from the left on that issue.

    Booker has his own problems with deep ties to Wall Street.

    Warner and Salazar are conservative neo-Dems. She does not need them.

    I think it will be Julian Castro or Tom Perez. Of the two, I favor Perez because I think his liberal/progressive credentials are lengthier than Castro's. And he strikes me as someone who could play the traditional attack dog role with charm and wit.

    WaPo is, IMO, still thinking in a very old-school way about this race. They need to wake up and see that a new day is dawning in terms of the electorate. Geography is no longer important when choosing a VP. There is no need to choose someone like Warner or Kaine or Bayh because if Clinton needs to pull in any group it is those more to the left of the party, not the right.

    I still believe it should be someone who is young enough to be a viable presidential candidate in 2024.

    Parent

    Congressman Xavier Becerra (D.CA) (none / 0) (#101)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:28:17 PM EST
    would be a good vice presidential running mate. Born in 1958, Stanford University baccalaureate and law, Hispanic caucus chair, progressive. Hope he is not overlooked.

    Parent
    What's wrong with Becerra? (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by vicndabx on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 03:27:10 PM EST
    He seems like a solid pick to me.

    Parent
    He's on the WP list (none / 0) (#113)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:31:52 PM EST
    just not my list.

    Parent
    What about Al Franken? (5.00 / 4) (#116)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 04:47:09 PM EST
    He's good enough, he's smart enough -- and gosh darn it, people like him!

    Parent
    He can be on your list (none / 0) (#119)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:08:36 PM EST
    just not mine. Again my ten aren't my choices but rather the ten I think would be under consideration.

    Parent
    Surprised (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:16:09 PM EST
    You don't include Kaine.  I hope he's not being seriously considered but I suspect he is.

    Parent
    And why not? (none / 0) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:39:42 PM EST
    After all, WaPo includes former Evan Bayh (D-Merry Old Land of Oz) on their VP short list. Speaking for myself only, I couldn't think of a more politically obsolete or oxymoronic choice than him.

    Parent
    What's wrong with Jay Inslee, (none / 0) (#124)
    by Farmboy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:21:13 PM EST
    governor of WA? Seems like a liberal, plus has positive history in Bill's WH.

    Parent
    Dirt Ball and Cue Ball (none / 0) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:22:12 PM EST
    On All Due Respect are basically saying it time for Bernie to drop his petals and fold his tent.   Pretty strongly.  And major praise for Hillary and especially her performance yesterday.   Bit surprised.   They had to toss in a couple of cheap jabs but still, surprising.

    Just as in 2008 (none / 0) (#128)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 05:42:18 PM EST

    the vast majority will come together

    eventually

    Parent

    A beginning (none / 0) (#133)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:40:12 PM EST
    the last two tweets from the Bernie Sanders campaign account:

    Bernie Sanders ‏@BernieSanders 26m26 minutes ago
    The American people will never support a candidate whose major theme is bigotry. We will not allow Donald Trump to become president.

    Bernie Sanders ‏@BernieSanders 3h3 hours ago
    We will not allow right-wing Republicans to control our government. That is especially true with Donald Trump as the Republican candidate.

    He also sent out (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Nemi on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 08:43:32 AM EST
    this e-mail, in which a couple of the phrasings puzzles me.

    Now referring to himself by full name in the third person isn't new, but still bizarre. But what's with adressing his would-be donors as 'Sisters and Brothers'? And signing of 'In solidarity'? Emulating Lech Walesa or some such?

    I also noticed that he mentions 'social, economic, racial and enviromental justice' as visions for the future but leaves out 'gender'. Not that it surprises me though.

    Parent

    i wonder if tomorrow (none / 0) (#134)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:43:22 PM EST
    after meeting with Obama and Reid he wont announce he is suspending at this DC rally.

    wishful thinking?

    Parent

    I don't think he should be compelled ... (none / 0) (#137)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:56:23 PM EST
    ... to suspend his DC rally. Allow him to play out his hand. As for those of us who are card-carrying members of the Democratic Party, it's up to us to find meaningful ways in which to mentor, engage and involve the generally younger Sanders supporters, who represent new blood, fresh enthusiasm and different perspectives for our party.

    One line that I used at our state convention this past Memorial Day weekend, admittedly paraphrasing that late Sen. Edward Kennedy, which seemed to resonate with young Sanders activists was "Campaigns end, but the cause endures." They generally appreciated that acknowledgement of their efforts, even as they were trying to come to grips with the fact that the end of the road was June 7.

    I want them to stay, and I hope they do.

    Parent

    i didnt say he should be compelled (none / 0) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 06:58:53 PM EST
    or he should suspend the rally.  i would say what i said but its right there

    Parent
    Sanders seems the type that hates losing (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 07:03:57 PM EST
    And since Hillary dropped out 4 days after losing a shot at the majority of pledged delegates, perhaps Sanders will drop out in 3

    Parent
    Hold the rally, and make Obama and Clinton (5.00 / 2) (#146)
    by ruffian on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 08:59:16 PM EST
    part of it. How great would that be?

    Parent
    Sanders (5.00 / 2) (#149)
    by CoralGables on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:27:57 PM EST
    is only approaching Stage 4 of the 5 stages of grief. He's at the bargaining stage tomorrow. It would be great if he transitioned to the acceptance stage after his meeting with Obama, but Sanders doesn't seem the type to always grasp reality

    Parent
    You've never actually bargained or (none / 0) (#184)
    by Mr Natural on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 11:25:30 AM EST
    played for position in a negotiation, have you?

    Parent
    Yes, a (none / 0) (#151)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jun 08, 2016 at 09:31:32 PM EST
    farewell tribute to Bernie.   A rally for Hillary with endorsements by Bernie and the president.

    Parent
    Yes - a Democratic rally (none / 0) (#193)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:53:37 PM EST
    Bring up some Senate candidates too

    Parent
    I guess that is what the convention is for (none / 0) (#195)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 12:56:51 PM EST
    But it does seem like a great time to do a unification event sooner rather than later. And Bernie could get his message heard by more in the DC African-American community.

    Parent
    The consensus seems to be (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:06:22 PM EST
    The heavy weights are likely to hold off and let Sanders play "candidate" for one more week.  Until after he gets his butt kicked in DC.

    Parent
    Yes, he has so few chances to make speeches (5.00 / 2) (#200)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:10:03 PM EST
    in Wash D.C., as a sitting US Senator.


    Parent
    YER NOT THA BOSSA ME!!! (none / 0) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jun 09, 2016 at 01:12:38 PM EST
    Of all Sanders annoying mouthpieces this woman should get a trophy or something-

    "The president is not Sen. Sanders' boss. We've got to get this straight here," said Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator who's been traveling the country on behalf of the campaign. "There's respect that's for the commander in chief ... but Sen. Sanders is duly elected, and he'll make his own decisions."
    Or else
    Sanders' Speech: "The Struggle Continues" | 203 comments (203 topical)