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Sen. Al Franken Gets A Groping Allegation of His Own

By Jeralyn, Section Other Politics
Posted on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 10:23:39 AM EST
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Leeann Tweeden, a Los Angeles reporter has issued a statement detailing a pretty disgusting encounter with Al Franken in 2006. Franken was not a Senator at the time. The story ends with a photo of him grabbing her breasts while she's asleep on the military plane home from Afghanistan.

The alleged incident occurred during her 9th ISO Tour to entertain the troops. (Her father was a Vietnam vet and her husband (then her boyfriend) is an Air Force Pilot.

Franken had written some skits for the show and brought props and costumes to go along with them. Like many USO shows before and since, the skits were full of sexual innuendo geared toward a young, male audience.

You can read the rest at the link. [More...]

Franken's response (though his spokespersons):
[H]e doesn’t recall the rehearsal episode and that the pose he struck while Tweeden was asleep was “supposed to be funny.” “I send my sincerest apologies to Leeann,” the statement said.
Sounds like the Bush I responses.
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    Sen. Al Franken Gets A Groping Allegation of His Own | 185 comments (185 topical)

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    It was "supposed to be funny" (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Towanda on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 10:42:20 AM EST
    is the apology of an a$$hole, sorry, to say, because I liked Al Franken for his strong voice in the Senate.

    By the time that all is said and done, we again maynhave tomhave a woman candidate in 2020 . . . if the stories of women (and some men) about sexual harassment are done by then.  After all, millions of women have endurd it.  (Me, too.)

    Forget 2020... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:35:31 AM EST
    2018 could be a banner year for more women in Congress.  At this rate, there may be no men left to run against them without sexually harassing skeletons in their closets.

    Brand D arse-grabbers are probably in more jeopardy than the Brand R arse-grabbing colleagues though.  Republican constituencies will stomach a pig a lot faster than Democratic constituencies will.  In 2017 at least...different story in the 90's and even the 00's.  Social awareness on the issue has come fast and swift.  

    Parent

    To be fair to Franken, this is what he said... (none / 0) (#16)
    by vml68 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:52:02 AM EST
    "As to the photo, it was clearly intended to be funny but wasn't. I shouldn't have done it."

    Like Kdog says, I find the kissing incident (if true) to be a lot more disturbing than the juvenile behavior shown in the photo.

    Parent

    Me too. The photo is crass (none / 0) (#63)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:02:15 AM EST
    but clearly meant to be comical. The kissing is scary and what could be evidence of a pattern.

    I'm with Armando on this one. Franken has to resign. The GOP is not going to call for it because they don't want to set the precedent for the untold number of stories going to come forward about their guys, not to mention the ones already know about POTUS. So he could probably ride it out if that is the yardstick, but it isn't.

    This is politics - the game is different than in real life. In real life he is forgiven by the victim, and he didn't do anything prosecutable - no one is going to prosecute over a forced kiss. Even I think that is a low legal standard, though a high personal one.

    In politics, every Dem candidate in the midterms is going to have to carry him on their backs if he does not resign. That is intolerable.

    Parent

    One thing I would say (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:22:14 AM EST
    the photo doesn't show him grabbing, it shows him pretending to grab.

    Not defending it.

    The rehearsal accusation... (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:38:23 AM EST
    is far worse than the photo...I could possibly excuse the photo as simple poor juvenile taste, but not the "kiss rehearsal" if it went down as the accuser describes.

    Parent
    I can't tell if he's touching her or not in the (2.00 / 2) (#4)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:31:33 AM EST
    photo.  I don't know that anything he's been of accused of is a crime.  I do know that lots of people get strange and obscene things done to them when they are unconscious. Sometimes it's all in good fun, sometimes it's not and can end in tragedy, especially when photos get passed around.  

    Parent
    My roommate (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:57:41 PM EST
    when I first got out of school and I went to a bar one night...Woody's Warf and it was a quite a scene....Fire Code be damned.

    One woman in her 20s was totally hammered....not unusual.  She was stumbling around among the crowd.

    When me and my roommate got home, he mentioned the drunk woman.  He said he groped her chest in the bar.  He thought it was funny and said she was defenseless.

    I said something to him about that technically being sexual assault and he stopped smiling.

    He was otherwise a good guy and I really liked him.  Very popular and intelligent.  

    The discrepancy always struck me.  

    Parent

    I noticed the same thing, vic, but I also (none / 0) (#17)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:01:34 PM EST
    realized that we have no idea what he did next, or just before, either.

    That being noted, I also have to share that I worked with someone  - a superior - in an atmosphere of congenial joking with a fair amount of sexual innuendo and double entendres, but what I learned is that when it all reaches a point - and it does do that, invariably - where a line of some kind is crossed, you not only have to deal with the reality of that, but also with the dilemma of what to do, what to say, who to tell, how to resolve it AND keep your job, what happens if you don't do anything.  And wrestle with how much of it is your fault because you were not just seemingly okay with it up until then, but you were giving as good as you got.  Were you saying "this is okay with me?" and how do you explain what changed?

    I realize that's kind of vague - it's just hard to describe.  I'm not talking about physical contact of any kind - just verbal jousting, if you will.

    So I can easily imagine how, on the one hand, here's Franken working in this atmosphere of sexual innuendo to appeal to his particular audience, and Tweeden is fully going along with it and contributing to it, and then - boom - the line is crossed, and it all goes sideways.

    But here's the thing: the moment, the instant, that she made it clear his actions were not okay, there should have been no further action of that kind, whether or not she was aware of it.  He may not have understood why, seemingly all of a sudden, she didn't want to play along with Franken's comedy scripts that seemed written to put her in a position of having to allow Franken to get physical with her, but in my mind, he stops the behavior and figures out the rest of it on his time, not hers.

    As to the "groping" or whatever that was, would he think it okay if some man did that to his wife, or his daughter?  I kind of doubt it - so why would be think for one minute it was okay to do it with Tweeden.

    Is it really that difficult for men to make sure their big head always prevails over the little one?

    Parent

    Agree with this 100% (none / 0) (#21)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:16:32 PM EST
    It similar to something I tell my kids when they play rough. Stop when someone say stop. If you're paying attention to what you're doing you'll know when things have crossed the line.  

    Parent
    Yes, it sure seems that way, unfortunately. (none / 0) (#52)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 07:15:08 PM EST
    Anne: "Is it really that difficult for men to make sure their big head always prevails over the little one?"

    As long as we as men are allowed to write the rules, we're going to continue to get away with it. And as long as we're allowed to get away with it, we're going to continue to do it.

    As an example, most employers require employees to agree to private arbitration and non-disclosure agreements as a condition of their employment. Who writes those agreements? Likely, men do.

    But when complaints about boorish behavior of male bosses, co-workers, etc., are effectively confined to individual silos thanks to such non-disclosure mandates, no pattern of bad behavior is allowed to publicly emerge. And so the workplace is rendered conducive to such repetitive acts by the same men, and women remain vulnerable to them.

    From my standpoint, I think the problem will only start to be mitigated once enough women attain for themselves sufficient positions of power and authority, so that they can effectively dictate a prohibition of such behavior and then enforce it from a position of actual strength. Deterrence is the best weapon in a woman's arsenal. If I'm going to behave as a sexist pig, then it's potentially going to cost me big time.

    I'd also offer the observation that women need to finally band together in relative solidarity and present a united front in response to this sort of behavior. Because until then, it's going to be relatively easy for men to divide and conquer. Women have to stand up and support other women in these types of situations.

    But I've noticed that more often than not, they simply aren't doing so. Just go on Facebook, Twitter, HuffPost or the comment sections of online news articles tonight, and note the number of women making catty remarks about Al Franken's accuser Leeann Teedren, in which they offer irrelevant opinions on her workplace behavior, her attire, and / or her physical appearance. They'll look at that picture with Franken looming over her while she's fast asleep, and yet still think and imply that it's somehow her fault.

    I'm sorry, but I find that to be entirely counterproductive. Yes, Ms. Teedren wasn't assaulted per se, though some might differ about tha with regards to that sloppy kiss, but she most certainly didn't deserve to be public humiliated like that. That offensive photo just oozes sexism and male privilege, even if Franken never intended it that way.

    And besides, even if she were working at the Happy Endings Massage Parlor on Sunset Blvd., Leeann Teedren still maintains the personal right of refusal, she still deserves the same basic respect due any other human being, and the word "no" should still mean exactly that -- no.

    So, if women are going to reserve that right for themselves individually, then they ought to grant to other women the same right and courtesy, collective without condition and in solidarity with one another. Otherwise, well, to quote the late humanitarian Jane Addams, "The essence of immorality is the tendency to make an exception of myself." And such women will continue to enable and excuse men's bad behavior.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    He seemed close to tears (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:32:46 AM EST
    On the Senate floor.

    Just do the right thing for the country Al. Just do the next right thing. You will never regret doing that. Ask Michael Vick.

    The right thing for the country... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:40:47 AM EST
    may not be an easy question to answer.  He has been a pretty good senator, and the country needs those, we have so very few.  But we don't need no damn arse-grabbers...the behavioral revolution is now.

    Parent
    I hear you (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:41:33 AM EST


    Parent
    Vick didn't have to leave the stage forever (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:46:05 AM EST
    If Franken leaves the seat I doubt we lose him forever. But he has to do something towards making amends. He needs to work with Jackson Katz on a project. Same way Vick worked for humane animal treatment.

    But you can't tell these guys going down what to do. You can only hope they choose to heal themselves and heal society.

    Parent

    Seems like Franken might be on the (none / 0) (#18)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:10:05 PM EST
    right path:

    Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) on Thursday asked for an ethics investigation into himself over a news anchor's allegations that in 2006 he forcibly kissed her and groped her while she was asleep. He said he will "gladly cooperate" with such a probe.

    "The first thing I want to do is apologize: to Leeann, to everyone else who was part of that tour, to everyone who has worked for me, to everyone I represent, and to everyone who counts on me to be an ally and supporter and champion of women," Franken said in a statement. "There's more I want to say, but the first and most important thing--and if it's the only thing you care to hear, that's fine--is: I'm sorry."

    [...]

    "I am asking that an ethics investigation be undertaken, and I will gladly cooperate," Franken said. "The fact that my own actions have given people a good reason to doubt that makes me feel ashamed."

    Franken said the photograph was "completely inappropriate."

    "It's obvious how Leeann would feel violated by that picture. And, what's more, I can see how millions of other women would feel violated by it--women who have had similar experiences in their own lives, women who fear having those experiences, women who look up to me, women who have counted on me," he said. "While I don't remember the rehearsal for the skit as Leeann does, I understand why we need to listen to and believe women's experiences."


    Parent
    Ethics investigation (none / 0) (#87)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:01:20 PM EST
    Ha Ha. Things referred to the ethics committee are rarely ever heard from again.

    Parent
    Was it not the ethics committee (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:05:22 PM EST
    That recommended the expulsion of Bob Packwood?

    Parent
    And didn't (none / 0) (#92)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:24:20 PM EST
    they sanction Newt Gingrich? Seems to me there has been plenty to come out of the ethics committee. But hey, even an ethics committee investigation is more than Donald is willing to subject himself to.

    Parent
    As you note (none / 0) (#97)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 08:07:35 AM EST
    Rarely is not the same as never.

    Parent
    But "rarely" might be the same as ... (none / 0) (#131)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 01:20:46 PM EST
    ... you only paying attention to the Ethics Committee when it does something you want.

    Parent
    Al is not Roy Moore (none / 0) (#19)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:11:26 PM EST
    Al should apologize and answer questions on it and face his voters.

    We should be able to do degrees of offense here.

    Parent

    Kevin Drum is of the same mindset: (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 07:55:29 PM EST
    "There are two problems here. The first is that too many liberals feel that they have to respond in a maximal way to every possible incident of sexual harassment, partly to maintain their own woke credibility and partly because they want to make sure conservatives can't accuse them of hypocrisy. The second problem is that we don't seem to have any good way of talking proportionately about this stuff.

    "All I mean is this: Not all offenses are the same. Shoplifting is not as bad as grand theft. Assault is not as bad as murder. Saying this doesn't imply approval of either shoplifting or assault; it's merely a statement of uncontroversial fact. Likewise, not all sexual abuse is equal. Harvey Weinstein's rap sheet includes dozens of accusations of groping, forced massages, and possibly rape. Louis C.K. masturbated in front of actresses multiple times. Roy Moore routinely chased after high school girls when he was in his 30s and appears to have aggressively assaulted at least two of them.

    "By contrast, Franken thought he was joking around but went farther than he should have. Once. It's no whitewash to say that this is a considerably lesser offense. But if the only response we have to any kind of sexual abuse is to insist on resignation from office and expulsion from public life -- mostly to protect our own reputations -- we are not acting with any sense of proportionality. We need to start. Listen to Leeann Tweeden, folks."

    LINK.

    Parent

    I think it is a mistake to say "once" (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Peter G on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 09:40:00 PM EST
    about Franken. We don't know yet. But being a man of that generation (and a bit older), and having been around men for many years, I think "once" is  highly improbable.

    Parent
    That's assuming facts not yet in evidence. (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 01:45:10 AM EST
    As of right now, it's one accusation. Sen. Franken's apologized for his behavior 11 years ago, and Teedren has already and graciously accepted his apology. Further, he's called for a Senate ethics investigation on himself, which as far as I can tell is unprecedented. That strongly suggests -- to me, anyway -- that Franken likely has nothing else to hide here.

    Honestly, and this is not directed at you or anyone else in particular, I get so tired of bedwetting Dems jumping quickly to conclusions after listening to a scandalmongering media, and assuming the very worst before knowing all the facts. This is exactly how the USDA lost an excellent regional administrator in Shirley Sherrod.

    So, let's all just stop and catch our breaths, unbunch our panties and skivvies, and wait and see what happens before we start calling for anyone's resignation, okay? If Franken's really a serial abuser, we'll likely know soon enough. And if he's not, then we can move on and address the overarching issue of how men treat women in the workplace and elsewhere.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    What conclusion do you claim (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:48:28 AM EST
    I jumped to, and what facts do you claim I have "assumed" to be true without "evidence"? Did you even read my comment? I responded with careful words to a comment that asserted as a fact that Sen. Franken engaged in this behavior only "once." What I said is all I said, and I set forth my basis for saying it. You are really annoying sometimes, Donald.

    Parent
    Gosh, where to start? Ok, we'll start here.: (none / 0) (#106)
    by cpinva on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 12:57:57 PM EST
    "I think it is a mistake to say once about Franken. We don't know yet. But being a man of that generation (and a bit older), and having been around men for many years, I think "once" is  highly improbable."

    that strikes me (and any other reasonably intelligent person) as pretty much a conclusion. You don't know for certain, but you're pretty certain ("I think "once" is  highly improbable.") there's more to come, though it hasn't since this first came out a couple of days ago.

    Dude, you can't have it both ways in real world, have your cake and bake it too, etc.

    Parent

    Obviously I cannot agree that (none / 0) (#108)
    by Peter G on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 08:12:03 PM EST
    any "reasonably intelligent person" would interpret what I wrote as intended to suggest something very different from what I actually wrote. But it is definitely a problem I need to consider whenever I write for public consumption, including when I post here.

    Parent
    Please. Others had already called for an (none / 0) (#71)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 11:08:25 AM EST
    ethics investigation on him. So with nothing to lose, he joined the call. "Unprecedented?" Sure. Unprecedented chutzpah.

    Parent
    So (none / 0) (#69)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 09:48:02 AM EST
     can we make the converse argument? That if no other credible allegations arise we should consider this "once" highly improbable.

    I agree that the worst behavior ascribed to Franken rarely if ever is not serial in nature.  Wouldn't a lack of further victims coming forth be exculpatory?

    Given recent events, I would think that any serial creepiness on Franken's part would almost immediately come to light, so far nothing much. That'd why I personally am reserving judgement until further allegations do or do not arise.  

    Parent

    Read my comment again. I also am (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Peter G on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 11:42:18 AM EST
    reserving judgment. I was making a prediction (based on probabilities only) of what I expect to come to light within a few days. If it doesn't, no one will be more pleased than I. Nor have I said a word about what consequences I think would be appropriate, because I don't have a clear thought on that subject.

    Parent
    Now we can pay closer attention, ... (none / 0) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 01:24:13 PM EST
    ... since a second woman has just accused Franken of inappropriate conduct -- this time while he was a U.S. senator.

    Parent
    Nobody said he was Roy Moore (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:25:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Sounds about right... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:27:26 PM EST
    There definitely are many degrees/factors...Louis CK is not Weinstein, and Franken is not Moore. Some cases warrant apologies and making some amends, more serious offenses warrant pink slips or criminal prosecutions.

    Parent
    Yes to all. (none / 0) (#64)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:06:32 AM EST
    And fortunately for all of us he is from a  state where he would be replaced with someone who would also be good for the American people. If that weren't true maybe I'd be arguing for him to tough it out. But to me the choice seems very clear and I'm pretty sure he will get there in a day or two.

    Parent
    I think (5.00 / 3) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:43:12 AM EST
    The spectre of male accountability is more terrifying to the Trumpreich than the spectre of Mueller.

    There's a reason (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by CST on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:47:01 AM EST
    He's been silent on Moore - despite having endorsed his opponent in the primary.  If it were anything else he'd be screaming "I told you so" from the twitterverse 24/7.

    Parent
    He won't be able to stay that trigger finger (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:50:53 AM EST
    It might be 2:00 am but he's going to let us have it.

    Parent
    No because (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by smott on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:13:12 PM EST
    The standards DEms are held to will never apply to the GOP.

    Anybody calling for Clarence Thomas to step down?
    Of course not.

    This is another version of Clinton Rules.
    Applies to Dems only.

    FRanken may step down, whatever.

    Meanwhile the GOP will finagle a special election to get out of the Moore problem.

    And all will continue as usual, except w Dem's circular firing squad more active than normal.

    Parent

    Armando is on Twitter (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:31:48 PM EST
    Responding to everyone putting out stories that Bill Clinton needed to resign that Clarence Thomas needs to resign NOW. Look, anyone who has been preying on people sexually is done...period.

    Stay in the present tense. That is all any of us can change anyhow. Thomas is relevant, Franken is relevant, they both hold office. They are public servants.

    But Armando is calling for Clarence Thomas to resign on Twitter. We can all join him. I'm certain he would welcome us.

    Parent

    Those fools (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 06:46:30 PM EST
    at Vox completely fell for it. I don't know what they were attempting to do but those bros seem to be stuck on stupid and glossed over facts.

    Parent
    That is the (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 06:45:44 PM EST
    crux of the problem sorry to say. Republicans are allowed to harass women but Democrats are now.

    Parent
    Trump looks pretty hammered out today huh? (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:49:20 AM EST
    He looks like, "What the hell is going on here?" Where did the 80's go?

    Parent
    The 80s (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:47:33 PM EST
    So true.

    There were strippers in the lunch room at work.   Call girls in the offices of the Big Enchiladas....Affairs with paralegals and Associates....

    Much less now, and what does go on is not so blatant.

    Parent

    Too young for the 80's... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 01:01:31 PM EST
    but here in the plumbing supply business I remember when the distributors stopped giving out nudie calendars to their customers in the mid 00's.  

    But my cube-dweller mentor who is in his late 50's tells me stories of what went on in this business in the 80's...holy sh*t.  I think the sales guys expense reports actually had a line item specific for strippers & hookers back then.

    Parent

    I think the norms (none / 0) (#37)
    by MKS on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 01:06:20 PM EST
    have changed--as women gain stature and become more prevalent in the work force as equals.

    Parent
    Indeed they have... (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 01:15:24 PM EST
    No more tom-foolery, no more bally-hoo...poor big baby boys gotta grow up...and get consent for their rocks-off on their own time and/or on their own dime.

    Good stuff, all thing considered...let the sunlight disinfect and set women free from all this bullsh&t they've suffered for so long.

    Parent

    kdog (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 01:20:42 PM EST
    You have no idea :)

    Parent
    I thought I did... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 01:31:01 PM EST
    but yeah, I really didn't.

    Parent
    Something (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 06:43:27 PM EST
    big must be going to drop as apparently the Franken accusation came through Infowars which is really strange. I would think she could have come forward with out their assist.

    Parent
    Franken needs to resign (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by hilts on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:51:32 AM EST
    His actions crossed the line and he has to go.

    We need to hold every politician to the highest standards whether they are liberal Democrats or conservative Republicans

    Well, yes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by smott on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:16:52 PM EST
    But until EVERYONE follows the same path, allow me to be cautious.

    This new vogue is perfectly placed to f-Ck the Dems, while the GOP laughs their way to another election.

    Franken should step down when Moore does, and Thomas does, and Trump does....and so on.

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#23)
    by CST on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:19:41 PM EST
    If we wait for the Republicans to get their act together we'll be waiting forever.  The only thing we can do is provide a better alternative.  In order to do that we have to be better.

    Parent
    Speaking for myself only as an historian, ... (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 07:29:42 PM EST
    ... unilateral disarmament has almost always proved to be a foolishly bad political policy. That's because at its core essence, politics is about power and not principle. Principles in the political world are only truly effective if and when everyone agrees beforehand to abide by them.

    I would offer that we're not anywhere even close to that. Trump has changed the dynamic and not in a good way. Therefore, I'm not willing to compel Al Franken to give up his Senate seat on the basis of one single instance of lapsed judgment that happened eleven years ago.

    Look, I'm offended by something every day. And likely, I probably give offense to people almost as often. We can't make this about our own egos. We have to look out for the well-being of everyone. And I would offer that chasing off Sen. Franken to enable the second coming of a Norm Coleman-type GOP character is not on our best interests.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I disagree people's lives are impacted (none / 0) (#26)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:25:47 PM EST
    While this is extremely important, there is a larger environment we need to keep in mind. We can provide accountability without shooting ourselves in the foot unnecessarily.

    Parent
    People's lives are impacted (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by CST on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:35:28 PM EST
    When 50% of the country can't be bothered to vote because "a pox on both their houses".

    That's part of the larger environment that we need to keep in mind.

    Parent

    Pox on both their houses (none / 0) (#33)
    by vicndabx on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:47:51 PM EST
    will happen regardless of what congresspeople do. If not on this issue some other one will be found to "both sides."

    To be clear I agree we should be better. I am simply saying there are a whole host of other factors that impact D ability to appear better, and more importantly, be believed as better. In light of that, do not lose sight of the larger goal of re-gaining power.    

    Parent

    Baseless (none / 0) (#101)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 11:06:22 AM EST
    Not true

    Parent
    As feared (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:41:35 PM EST
    Another Franken victim seems to want to talk. Wish you guys would understand that boundary crossers cross. It's a kind of compulsion. But okay....whatever

    Parent
    Did you see the video of the USO show? (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 06:54:21 PM EST
    Some tweeters thought the whole clip was demeaning to women. But, b/4 I read the comments, my reaction was, it is wonderful that these performers are entertaining our troops.

    Parent
    I will go watch it (none / 0) (#98)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 08:13:00 AM EST
    Did a mini trip for granddaughters bdays. If nobody else comes forward I don't see why Franken can't do what Vick did socially. And do some work for advocacy, be very public about that. And become the change that we all will be making.

    I make inappropriate jokes sometimes. I think the days of the uncomfortable joke about sex are gone.

    Parent

    I didn't mean to suggest waiting for Repubs exctly (none / 0) (#38)
    by smott on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 01:10:24 PM EST
    Meant to imply that Dems should not fall in their swords while GOP laughs

    Parent
    Dens should do the principled thing (none / 0) (#102)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 11:08:37 AM EST
    And stop worrying about fallING on swords and laughing Repugs

    Parent
    so (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:22:18 PM EST
    if we demand Franken should resign, should we not ask the same of tRump? I'm starting to see a double standard here, where a single allegation will bring down a Democrat, while multiple accusations against a Republican calls for "more proof" until the story goes away.

    I'm afraid that if we let single accusations start taking down politicians, it would start us on a very slippery slope towards a total rat-fkng paradise.

    Parent

    At some point, doesn't someone have to (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:42:37 PM EST
    do the right thing?  And do whatever that right thing is not in relation to what anyone else's "right thing" is, but in relation to their own moral and ethical code?

    I mean, people either know right from wrong or they don't.  

    And frankly, I think we're getting a pretty ugly view of how lacking in morals and ethics too many people are these days - and I don't just mean those accused of or who have admitted to any of the accusations.

    I don't know what people tell their children, how we're supposed to explain that the people in whose hands we're placing the responsibility and burden of being good stewards of this country of ours are operating from a position of self-interest that is often at odds with what's right.

    Can we say from any position of strength that it's okay to overlook bad behavior because the person who committed it can do more and better good things to improve the lives of millions of people than their counterparts who aren't interested in the greater good, only in what's good for them?

    I don't want the GOP to "win" either, but I wish there was a way not to have to lower ourselves to their level and be like them in order for us to win.

    I knew something like this was coming - it was only a matter of time.  I don't know that Franken should resign over this accusation - I think how he handles this may well make it clearer what needs to happen.

    Jesus, no wonder I have a headache today.

    Parent

    How he handles it empowers or neuters (none / 0) (#34)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 12:51:21 PM EST
    The liberal women's voice.

    This is not small. And it's personal, for all women in this country.

    It looks like a second Franken victim is coming forward.

    Men have been getting away with this for so long they are shocked to be suddenly caught. They got away with it for so long some of them can't tell the difference between calling for an ethics investigation to clear things up and hey dude...you are soooo guilty. Go home!!!

    Parent

    I'd have to answer that question ... (none / 0) (#89)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:17:33 PM EST
    ... with one of my own: Would you want your own career and life to be neatly summed up and characterized solely by your own questionable personal choices or actions on one particular day from over 10 years ago?

    If everyone who once behaved like a total jackass at some point or another in their lives were suddenly called out years after the fact and then summarily fired from their jobs for it, the unemployment offices would be swamped with applicants, and there would be nobody behind the desks to process the claims.

    If there is an unfolding pattern of dubious personal conduct with women on Al Franken's part, it will be unearthed soon enough and we can revisit his tenure as a U.S. senator at that time. But until then, let's please remember that (a) this regrettable incident took place while he was an edgy stand-up comic and not while he was in public office; (b) perfect is always the enemy of the good; and (c) nobody's perfect.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I am hearing from Minnesota women (5.00 / 4) (#78)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 04:10:47 PM EST
    whom I know, and they want to keep Franken.  

    I hope that they get to be heard, before Dems from elsewhere who want him out get their way.  After all, if we are have to  let Alabama be Alabama, we ought to let Minnesota. Be Minnesota. (And Franken has to face them, over a lot of hot dishes to pass, and those Minnesota women ought to get their opportunity to give him heat, hotter than any Northwoods sauna.)

    And I wonder, would we from elsewhere be so willing to dump a Dem Senator, midterm, in a state with.a Republican governor? I also wonder, and I hope that savvy oolitical types here have the answer: Does an interim replacement to the Senate get to keep the same committees? Franken has the seniority for service on some signicsnt committees, which has served all os usnwell.  And, again, if replacing him sacrifices such status for Minnesota, that matters to us flyover states.

    In sum, as you can see, I am unsure of the rush to action on this. Of course, as with others above, this could change in the event of further reports. (But Tracy, you state that there was a second woman's complaint, an d it has been a second day, and I have not seen it. In fairness, you need to be more specific, as well women know from being the subject of sexual rumors.)

    Parent

    Mahalo for calling out Armando on Twitter. (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 06:59:53 PM EST
    Towanda (to BTD on Twitter): "Would you call for Franken to resign if Minnesota had a Republican governor?"

    I think you caught him flat-footed with that question. I swear, he's been one of the worst on that platform these past two days in calling for Al Franken to resign his seat. What a bedwetter! (I know he'd take issue with that, but hey, I don't care.) It rather annoys me when east coast Dems think they unilaterally know what's in the best interests of everyone else throughout the country, by sole virtue of their presumed proximity to the Beltway.

    We experienced something similar here when Sen. Dan Inouye died in December 2012. Suddenly, everyone back east was calling those of us on the State Central Committee to insist that we honor Inouye's "deathbed wish." Well, we decided otherwise, and then-Gov. Abercrombie made his choice based on our findings, and that's why Brian Schatz is in the U.S. Senate and not Colleen Hanabusa.

    As you noted, Sen. Franken's fate is for Minnesota citizens only to decide, and not anybody else. As far as a second complainant against him, there likely isn't one. In the wake of the Teedren allegation, some right-wing woman who had earlier taken public issue with Franken on a policy position at a town hall meeting decided to try and equate his expressed contrary opinion with sexual harassment. Most knowledgeable people have since laughed her off, and she's crawled back into her gopher hole.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Donald, that was an interesting reaction (none / 0) (#91)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:14:53 PM EST
    from Armando.  Not an answer, but a reaction.

    And it was not meant to "call out" Armando. I really am wondering whether he and others who call for Franken to quit have thought this through to, as I wrote, the next Dem in the headlines for such behaviors.  Because the Republicans will find another one, or more . . . because: men, politics, egos, etc.  

    And then, as you saw in my next tweet, if that next Dem has a Republican governor, will the hue-and-cryers be so willing to cede a seat? I doubt it.

    Anyway, for my conversations with my Minnesota friends, I was hoping that you might be one who would know whether an interim replacement retains the seniority of the predecessor? I doubt that, too -- and that is a factor of significance to Franken's constituents, and all of us.

    (Thanks also for the update and background on the right-wing woman; I did find something about her and her story, but I could not imagine that was one to be taken seriously, per Tracy, as it involved no sexual harassment.)

    Parent

    Nope. (none / 0) (#149)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 09:26:15 PM EST
    The seniority goes with the senator who was holding it. We lost both our senators in 2012, and they took their combined 75 years of seniority with them.

    Parent
    Uh huh. Some Minnesotans (none / 0) (#152)
    by Towanda on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 11:56:56 AM EST
    whom I know hat that it matters that Franken serves on some significant committees -- and could chair sooner than an interim replaceement, or an elected successor.

    Parent
    i agree (none / 0) (#93)
    by linea on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:45:54 PM EST
    that the dynamics would change of minnesota had a republican governor. but really, it's just a pointless hypothetical. al franken should resign, and while his democratic party replacement will likely be firmly centrist rather than progressive leaning, it's still important that there be SOME consequence. because typically there is NEVER any consequense.

    As far as a second complainant against him, there likely isn't one.

    Melanie Morgan?

    Parent

    Melanie Morgan is a right-wing ... (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Yman on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 04:00:28 PM EST
    ... talk radio host whose allegations have nothing to do with sexual harassment.

    But you already knew that.

    Parent

    It is pointless to ponder only (none / 0) (#95)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 11:08:57 PM EST
    to thise who do not read the rest of what I wrote, about the nxt or the next after that, wth a Republican governor.  Will the moral-high-grounders hold firm?

    Pondering hypotheticals is standard in philosophy and ethics courses, linea, to test our principles.

    And a definition of ethics is anticipating the consequences of our actions. Of course, that's also wise politics, to avoid the inevitable video of claiming a principle now but abandoned later.

    Or, sure, react with no forethought -- and no firm moral basis. Like the large orange lout in the White House.

    Parent

    "Consequences" are never limited to (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Anne on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 06:53:17 AM EST
    just the two people involved, so it seems to me a worthwhile - not pointless - exercise to consider what those consequences might be, and also to consider if any or all of the consequences are commensurate with the original action/offense.

    I am leaning more and more to Franken not resigning. For one thing, his apology reflects an awareness that I don't believe bloomed overnight, nor does it seem to be the product of a speechwriter or publicist. There was no effort to deny, deflect or concoct some ridiculous justification, or put any blame on the accuser.

    Putting Franken's response alongside the responses of Trump, Moore, Weinstein and others is instructive, and ought to be part of the equation.

    What I do hope one of the consequences is are millions of conversations between men and the women in their lives, and eyes and ears and minds opening to the reality that we women have been dealing with a vast range of crap from  men for a long, long time, and it needs to stop.

    Parent

    No. (none / 0) (#99)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 09:40:37 AM EST
    He should absolutely not resign.

    Parent
    (p.s. sorry for typos) (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:08:37 PM EST
    Working more on a mini-IPad in retirement now, and the keyboard is awful.  Also, I need new glasses, I suspect.  

    Every portion of my anatomy is aging fast of late.  (Seriously. I just checked in with my post-polio syndrome specialist, and the accelerated loss of strength is ridiculous. On the upside, I am told to get a portable scooter.  I could be he!! on wheels.)

    Parent

    Sorry to learn of (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by KeysDan on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 11:32:45 AM EST
    your PPS, which is surely challenging both physically and psychologically.  It is smart to use an assistive device to help conserve energy.  Your specialist has probably prescribed a cautious and non-stressful exercise program, such as water aerobics or swimming, albeit, at a relaxed pace.  Best under the guidance of a physical therapist.  In any event, please continue to work at being a heller in your retirement.

    Your question regarding resignation of Al Franken if MN had a Republican governor was interesting.  Since there are always various factors that go into decision-making, in my view, a decision to urge Franken to resign, knowing that a Democratic governor has the opportunity for appointment of a replacement, makes it straightforward:

     the resignation focuses on the individual's deeds; assurances of replacement of anther with similar political philosophy does not erase the general expectations of the electorate.  The successor would also be from the same party, underscoring, too, the importance of the party and the individual who ran as a member of that party.

    A different decision might be rightly and justly made in view of other circumstances.  A Republican governor replacing a Democratic senator, deals with the individual's deeds, but upsets the electorate's choice of an individual, and, also, affects the larger community's expectations of political direction.

    I see it in the same sense of succession after impeachment/conviction of a president.  If the president is impeached, it relates to the individual's action, and replacement is the vice president...of the same party. Impeachment and replacement with an individual of the opposition party would have a more severe chilling effect on impeachment by members of the same party, and would appear to be a coup with a take over by the opposition party.

    Maybe, state laws that permit governors to appoint replacements should be required to select from the party of the individual being replaced (resignation, death).

     And, without that provision, the decision on resignation may justifiably  take a different and non-hypocritical or inconsistent turn.

    Parent

    Speaking (none / 0) (#45)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 05:21:00 PM EST
    of Rat-fkrs
    Roger Stone -- longtime confidant to President Donald Trump and GOP "dirty tricks" operative -- appears to have had foreknowledge of the accusations against Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) by Los Angeles radio personality Leeann Tweeden.The Hill reported Thursday afternoon that at 1:30 a.m. Thursday, a Twitter account associated with Stone tweeted that Franken's "time in the barrel" is on the way.
    WTF, how and why would Stone know, and who told him? BTW: Tweeden has made at least several appearances with Hannity...just saying.

    Parent
    Why does your observation matter? (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Michael Masinter on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 06:28:47 PM EST
    Is it permissible to sexually harass or forcibly kiss a woman because she is a birther, a Hannity guest, or an acquaintance of Roger Stone?  Why does any of that matter? I don't care one bit about her politics; she's entitled to be treated no differently that any other woman. Enough with double standards.  Just saying indeed.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#53)
    by FlJoe on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 07:24:10 PM EST
    have heard the phrase "no reason to not believe her" over and over again. In the vast majority of these recent cases I come to the same conclusion, but only after a least a bit of investigation and reasoning. Right now I still have several questions unresolved, not the least which  is associating with political hacks who lie for a living.

    Have we come to a point where every and any allegation of sexual abuse or harassment must be taken as 100% true? Absolutely they deserve more of the benefit of the doubt than they have historically received, but the complete suspension of disbelief would be a very dangerous thing.

    Parent

    The photo was real (none / 0) (#57)
    by Michael Masinter on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 08:37:38 PM EST
    Of course one should not take as true every allegation of sexual misconduct; just ask Rolling Stone or Duke University.  For that reason, the question of the nature of the alleged kiss remains open, but what's left to investigate regarding the photo? Senator Franken himself authenticated it.  It was wrong; it was not, as he first claimed, a poor attempt at humor. All you have to do is imagine yourself, or your sister, daughter, or partner as the subject.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#62)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 06:18:55 AM EST
    picture was an obvious joke, in extremely poor taste but in no way evidence of sexual assault or harassment. Any reasonable reading of the picture indicates that it was a staged by Franken and the photographer in a "hijinks on the tour bus" kind of way. In that context I could easily not be offended if the "victim" was me or a loved one, depending on the players and the details..

    Rewind yourself to 2006 and this picture would never have caused a stir, I believe it was included in a CD album of the tour and there were crickets. Of course now, looking through the lens of 2017 it does seem a bit on the horrible side, but we should not overreact.

    IMO all men are pigs towards women at some point in their life in ways both big and small, recent events have made me look at my life and I have no trouble spotting my transgressions, both slightly smaller and slightly larger than Franken's groping photo joke but I don't think that would disqualify me from anything, nor should it allowed me to be labeled a predator.

    Parent

    Really just a joke? (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Michael Masinter on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:22:20 AM EST
    Let's rewind to the picture.  First, there's the thought; I could cop a feel, or pretend to, while she's sleeping. Thoughts are harmless; we don't police them, and all of us have fantasies we'd never want to have made public.

    Then there's the action; it's impossible to know from the picture whether he stopped short of the vest or not, but let's assume he stopped short.  That's something a 16 year old boy, or a drunk frat boy with no boundaries might do.  But a 55 year old?  

    But what cinches it for me is the photographer; What is the purpose of the photo?  She's asleep, so she can't be humiliated by the reach, but the photo preserves the act of humiliation for her and for everyone else to see. Again, he's 55, more or less, and well aware of the photographer, and what will become of the picture.  

    We've passed acting here; she hasn't agreed to be part of his sexual joke, but there she is, preserved in a picture.  And the implication, picked up by none other than president grab 'em by the pussy, is that he might have done more.  

    Do I think he should resign -- that's a hard call. On a strictly moral or personal level, the answer is a resounding no; the behavior, though wrong and worse than a poor joke, does not disqualify him from serving in the Senate, where he has been among our best.  But this isn't a purely personal judgment; he represents all of us who support liberal and progressive policies when they are under siege. Does he harm us by staying in the Senate?  Does he legitimize grabbing em by the pussy when he appears to grab em by the breasts?  That's what's in play here -- do we mean what we say when we talk about gender equality and dignity, or do we only mean it when disparaging folks on the right?

    Graveyards are full of indispensable men and women.  Al needs to make a political judgment; the rest of us can each make our own moral judgment.  As I said, in my view the incident, even if hes stopped short of her breasts, is all about creating a humiliating photo.  But maybe you're right, and he never outgrew high school. That may change the moral calculus, but not the political calculus, and he's a politician, not a priest.

    Parent

    Context (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by FlJoe on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:39:29 AM EST
    matters,
    It appears Tweeden herself was cool with groping as comedy. Not saying it's right but it's hard to "humiliate" someone  when they are in on the joke, even if only in spirit.

    Face it, historically USO shows in combat zones have been raunchy affairs and this one seems no different, with "sexual humiliation" at as a running joke, go ahead and write your own joke to this picture of Franken holding the panties, any thing less than down and dirty  would be disappointing...in context.

    IMO, given the context of this traveling Burlesque show, I find the outrage over the groping photo to be overblown, given the context its hard for me to believe that Tweeden would be mildly offended much less humiliated by it.


    Parent

    Actually Tweeden is offensive to me. I googled her (3.67 / 3) (#121)
    by JanaM on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 10:37:50 PM EST
    images and thought well how imaginative to combine her love for soft porn with her idea of patriotism. Her military fatigues as thongs was particularly interesting.

    And, of course, this is a politically motivated complaint. Why else would she have coordinated it with her right wing friends.

    Parent

    Another complaint. How many does it take? (none / 0) (#124)
    by Michael Masinter on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 09:28:49 AM EST
    Another woman has complained that Franken grabbed her by her butt during a photo in 2010, when he as already in the Senate. She posted a FB note on the day of the incident.  I suppose we'll need to investigate her politics too.

    Let's be clear here.  If the standard were criminal misconduct, neither Al Franken nor Roy Moore committed a sexual assault.  But when did "no controlling legal authority" become the standard by which we judge the permissible boundaries of sexual conduct by public officials.

    As I noted in another post, graveyards are full of indispensable men and women.  Based on my experience litigating sexual harassment cases, the probability that this new complaint is the last one that will emerge is approximately zero.  

    Parent

    I cannot agree that none of the Moore (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Peter G on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 12:26:57 PM EST
    allegations rises to the level of criminal conduct. The accusation by the 16-year-old (am I remembering that right?) who says he drove her to a dark parking lot, instead of home, and then locked the car door and tried to get under her clothing sounds like it could establish probable cause, at least, for charges of kidnapping and attempted rape (at least in most American jurisdictions, not knowing anything about Alabama criminal statutes in effect at that time or surrounding case law). That's pretty damn criminal. Not so about anything said about Sen. Franken (that I've seen so far).

    Parent
    really? (none / 0) (#159)
    by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 07:35:17 PM EST
    by Peter G
    That's pretty damn criminal. Not so about anything said about Sen. Franken (that I've seen so far).

    it's infuriating that you are at a loss to figure out any possible criminal law violations here.

    then he came at me, put his hand on the back of my head, mashed his lips against mine and aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth. I immediately pushed him away with both of my hands against his chest

    clearly, if a man grabbed Peter G by the back of the head and spit in his mouth - that would be assault. but a man grabbing a woman by the back of the head and shoving his tongue in her mouth - you find yourself at a loss to figure out what possible crime he commited?

    Parent

    If Peter was rehearsing (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 07:40:00 PM EST
    A skit where he kissed Al it would not be assault

    It might be a violation.  But I doubt it would be assault.

    Parent

    very poor argument (1.00 / 1) (#163)
    by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:24:43 PM EST
    If Peter was rehearsing
    by CaptHowdy
    A skit where he kissed Al it would not be assault
    It might be a violation.  But I doubt it would be assault.

    i actually need to explain to you that leeann tweeden wasn't a willing participant?

    to me, it seems pretty pervy and disgusting how this guy is always coming up with funny skits where he forces himself on women or grabs their breasts.

    [in my opinion]

    Parent

    "Always coming up with?" (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:18:39 PM EST
    WTF, linea?  There was one skit that we know of.  Period.

    One photograph at the state fair.  Period.

    You do this a lot, linea, and it's tiresome.  You take one thing, and inflate it to "always" - why is that?

    I am not, in case you were planning to accuse me of doing so, defending anything Franken did, either to Tweeden, or to the woman at the fair.  

    And it's fine for you to discuss that, linea, but not to make this into something it isn't by stating things like, "this guy is always coming up with funny skits where he forces himself on women or grabs their breasts."

    If you have to be dishonest in your arguments, that might be a pretty big clue that you either don't have the facts you need to make the argument you want, or you're just trying to stir things up.

    Neither possibility reflects well on you, and it is undermining the ability to take you seriously at all, about anything.

    Parent

    i do have the facts (1.00 / 1) (#169)
    by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:43:29 PM EST
    Always coming up with?
    by Anne
    WTF, linea?  There was one skit that we know of.  Period.

    no. two pervy skits.
    that we know of, so far.

    [1] the funny skit he devised as an excuse to assault Leeann Tweeden.

    [2] he grabs Arianna Huffington breasts and bum but no harm, no foul as it alludes to a funny skit he devised several years prior where the two had political arguments half-naked in bed.

    Newly surfaced pics show Al Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington's breasts and butt

    this guy is showing a pattern and i don't like it.

    my opinion.

    Parent

    Arianna Huffington begs to differ. (5.00 / 4) (#173)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:13:05 PM EST
    Arianna Huffington is denying that anything inappropriate occurred after The New York Post's Page Six on Monday published images that appear to show Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) groping her during a photoshoot in 2000.
    "The notion that there was anything inappropriate in this photo shoot is truly absurd," the co-founder of the Huffington Post said in a statement to Page Six, which ran the story under the headline "Newly surfaced pics show Al Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington's breasts and butt."

    [...]

    Huffington said the photos were meant to recreate a TV sketch she did with Franken in 1996.

    "Al and I did a comedic sketch for Bill Maher's `Politically Incorrect' called `Strange Bedfellows,' in which the whole point, as the name makes clear, was that we were doing political commentary from bed. This shoot was looking back at the sketch, and we were obviously hamming it up for comedic effect," Huffington wrote.

    "I've been great friends with Al and his wife Franni for over 20 years and there has never been anything remotely inappropriate in our interactions," she continued.

    Link

    So, we're back to one skit.  

    "Always" is dishonest.

    And as for this so-called pattern you think you're seeing?  Well, 36 women who worked with him on that somewhat-famous skit show - Saturday Night Live - would like you to know that they have a different opinion:

    Three dozen women who worked with Sen. Al Franken during his tenure on "Saturday Night Live" came out in defense of the Minnesota Democrat facing allegations of sexual misconduct.

    In the letter, the women slammed Franken's behavior toward Leeann Tweeden -- who accused the lawmaker of forcibly kissing and groping her more than a decade ago -- as "stupid and foolish" but wrote that "not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior" from the former SNL cast member.

    "We feel compelled to stand up for Al Franken, whom we have all had the pleasure of working with over the years on Saturday Night Live (SNL). What Al did was stupid and foolish, and we think it was appropriate for him to apologize to Ms. Tweeden, and to the public," the women wrote. "In our experience, we know Al as a devoted and dedicated family man, a wonderful comedic performer, and an honorable public servant."

    "That is why we are moved to quickly and directly affirm that after years of working with him, we would like to acknowledge that not one of us ever experienced any inappropriate behavior; and mention our sincere appreciation that he treated each of us with the utmost respect and regard," they added.

    So, just stop, would you?

    Parent

    Page six (none / 0) (#170)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:59:54 PM EST
    Really

    Did you look at that picture?  Does she look violated to you?

    Parent

    Huffington has said that the photo (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by caseyOR on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:07:47 PM EST
    was completely consensual. She and Frankenstein's were recreating a skit they had done for Maher's "Politically Incorrect" show.

    Huffington is a bit annoyed with people who jumped to the conclusion that she was anything but a willing participant.

    Parent

    Maybe you should have checked (none / 0) (#171)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:07:06 PM EST
    With the "victim" before the snowflake routine

    Arianna Huffington is denying that anything inappropriate occurred after The New York Post's Page Six on Monday published images that appear to show Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) groping her during a photoshoot in 2000.

    "The notion that there was anything inappropriate in this photo shoot is truly absurd," the co-founder of the Huffington Post said in a statement to the news outlet, which ran the story under the headline "Newly surfaced pics show Al Franken grabbing Arianna Huffington's breasts and butt."



    Parent
    Who cares if you "like it"? (none / 0) (#181)
    by Yman on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 09:25:06 PM EST
    Arianna Huffington: Al Franken no more groped me than I strangled him

    Huffington told the paper that the photos were for "comedic effect" and that they referenced a sketch called Strange Bedfellows Huffington used to perform with Franken, a former comedian, on Bill Maher's Politically Incorrect.

    "I think I'm a better judge of how I felt in that satirical photo shoot with Al Franken than the recollections of an anonymous bystander," Huffington said in a tweet earlier Tuesday. "I thought the point of this moment was to believe women's accounts of their own experiences."

    But don't let the facts bother you.

    Parent

    If fact (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:30:49 PM EST
    She was. It was a rehearsal. She knew he was going to kiss her.  She said so.

    So.

    And it was a USO show.  Have you ever seen one.
    They are mostly for guys.

    Try watching one of the ones Bob Hope used to do.

    On second thought don't.  You might not survive.

    Parent

    jesus christ (none / 0) (#167)
    by linea on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 09:16:45 PM EST
    If fact
    by CaptHowdy
    She was. It was a rehearsal. She knew he was going to kiss her.

    i suppose we should just be thankful he didn't decide the funny skit was raping her at knife point? because whatever he devises as a funny skit she is required to subject herself to?

    SHE NEVER WANTED TO KISS HIM

    she RECOILED from his attempt and he GRABBED HER BY THE BACK OF HER HEAD and forced his tongue in her mouth until she SHOVED him away by pushing on his chest with both hands.

    jesus christ! is this so difficult to understand?

    Parent

    Is (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by FlJoe on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 04:31:00 PM EST
    it so hard to understand that Tweeden was virtually repeating the script as written in 2003 .L:  
    I've taken the liberty of writing a little audition piece
    to show my range. [Handing Karri the script.] I play a prosecutor sent in by the Pentagon to shake
    things up around the JAG office.

    KARRI: You wrote this?

    AL: Yeah. I'm a writer, comedian, dramatic actor. [Beat.] It's your
    line.

    KARRI: Oh. [Reading from script.] Lieutenant Hardgrove, what are you
    doing here in JAG OPS?

    AL: I told you, Harriet. Call me Lance.

    KARRI: Lieutenant Hardgrove, this is JAG OPS. It's all business here.

    AL: Is it? Then why are you wearing that negligee?

    KARRI: [Off-script.] Al, my character would never wear a negligee to
    the office!

    AL: You would if you were madly in love with Lieutenant Lance Hardgrove.

    KARRI: Al, I'm married in the show! I have two kids--

    AL: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Keep reading.

    KARRI: [Reading script.] Lance, I'm wearing this negligee because
    I want tonight to be very special. I want to give myself to you completely. Now kiss me! [Al
    grabs Karri and kisses her. Karri fights him off.]

    KARRI: Now, wait a minute! You just wrote this so you could kiss me! If
    I was gonna kiss anybody, it'd be a real soldier. Like one of these brave men...or women.


    a>


    Parent
    You (none / 0) (#176)
    by FlJoe on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 05:31:05 AM EST
    do know that this skit was written an performed in 2003? the  whole joke was that Franken writes the line surreptitiously  into the script to "trick" the actress into inviting him to kiss them. Tweedens's recounting is basically s rewording of that skit, now she claims that she was totally unwilling, I call BS. These shows are chock full of groping and kissing, with photographic and video evidence showing Tweeden as an avid participant.

    Parent
    There is no comparison whatever (5.00 / 3) (#174)
    by Peter G on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 10:33:43 PM EST
    between an apparent kidnapping and attempted rape of a teenager, and something which could in theory be a simple assault, but which no prosecutor ever anywhere would prosecute, and likely no police officer ever anywhere would even take a report of.

    Parent
    Sexual Assault (none / 0) (#177)
    by Michael Masinter on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 03:22:15 PM EST
    Sexually motivated assaults are not sexual assaults as commonly defined unless the assault comes within the defined category of sexual assaults.  Although I'm no expert on Alabama law, it does not appear to make the conduct as described a sex crime.  Perhaps that conduct is a  non sex-based crime like simple assault or unlawful imprisonment, but though wrongful, I don't think it qualifies as a sexual assault in Alabama.

    Parent
    Seriously (none / 0) (#178)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 04:23:23 PM EST
    Taking the clothes off a 14 yo then taking off your own, touching her breasts and privates through her underwear and guiding her hand to touch his erection through his tightly whiteies.

    That's not a sex crime?

    It would seem to be skating pretty darn close by any definition.  

    Parent

    Yeahhhhhhh ... No (5.00 / 2) (#137)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 03:11:27 PM EST
    Let's be clear here.  If the standard were criminal misconduct, neither Al Franken nor Roy Moore committed a sexual assault
    .  

    The conduct of which Moore is accused clearly includes criminal acts.

    Parent

    Let (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by FlJoe on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 03:40:09 PM EST
    me play devil's advocate here. I suppose we'll need to investigate her politics too.
    I suppose we'll need to investigate her politics too.
    Absolutely, Republicans have proven over and over again that they will lie, cheat and steal to gain and retain power There seems no bottom to the depths they will sink. they would weaponize their own grandmas to get their way. I personally will probably never totally trust a tRump voter again.

    For the record I find this latest accusation more credible than Tweeden's (IMO a very low bar), if the family is telling the truth to CNN there appears to be plenty of contemporaneous corroboration.

    Ok now on to the cross examination of the latest accuser  

    Then, as her husband held up her phone and got ready to snap a photo of the two of them, Franken "pulled me in really close, like awkward close, and as my husband took the picture, he put his hand full-fledged on my rear," Menz said. "It was wrapped tightly around my butt cheek."
    "It wasn't around my waist. It wasn't around my hip or side. It was definitely on my butt," she said, recalling that the brazen act lasted three or four seconds. "I was like, oh my God, what's happening."
    I'm no expert on facial expressions but I am hard pressed to find a hint of any discomfort in hers at this "awkward" instant. I guess we should presume that the actual butt grab happened after the instant of the snapshot, are we to believe that Franken maintained his grip in some kind of frozen tableau with Mentz and her husband for 3-4 seconds(which is quite a long time when it comes to physical reactions). I will give her some benefit of the doubt because people have a terrible sense of time especially when under stress.
    This also baffles me
    Menz posted the photo with Franken on Facebook at the time, on August 27, 2010. Her sister, Cari Thunker, commented under the photo: "Sorry, but you two aren't Bibles (sic) width apart" -- a reference, Thunker explained to CNN, to how physically close Menz and Franken were in the photo.

    Menz responded to her sister on Facebook: "Dude -- Al Franken TOTALLY molested me! Creeper!" (The exchange is visible to Menz's Facebook friends.)

     I'm not sure why anyone would post a picture of yourself with someone who had just groped you and only calling out the creepiness after your sister commented on it.

    One final point, this hardly fits the profile of the sexual predator we have come to fear and loath, public groping of random strangers is definitely not the modus operandi of the rich, famous and powerful. CNN called this a brazen act, I would say so, publicly and unambiguously groping a stranger, in public, within a few feet of her husband pointing a camera at you.  I would call that the height of chutzpah...how long has this been going on?   How has he avoided getting b-slapped in public, possibly on camera? All for a few seconds of cheap thrills with a woman who he would never see again, something does not compute.

    Parent

    Yep. She was asking for it. (none / 0) (#126)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 11:39:52 AM EST


    Parent
    She's not averse to displaying her wares (none / 0) (#127)
    by jondee on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 11:59:36 AM EST
    in pursuit of a serious, dignified career in journalism slash pole dancing that all young American girls can admire and aspire to..

    None of that excuses Franken acting like a drunken fratboy waving a dollar bill, but if we're going to look at the big picture, lets include every element of it.

    Parent

    Shorter version: she was asking for it. (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 12:26:11 PM EST


    Parent
    I may be wrong but I don't believe Jondee is (none / 0) (#135)
    by vml68 on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 02:37:34 PM EST
    saying that "she was asking for it".
    I think what he is saying is that when you have some one who worked at Hooters and posed in Playboy and is shown grabbing the a$$ of the guitar player on the tour, one might assume that that person would not be so easily offended about what looks like a tasteless, juvenile prank, as opposed to, a nun.

    In the real world, most of us have different boundaries for the people we deal with. There are jokes we share with our partners or friends that we would probably never share with parents, coworkers, etc. I can see how Franken would assume that she would be okay/find amusing the b00b grabbing photo. She is wearing what looks like a kevlar vest in the piture, so I am not sure how he actually grabbed her brea$ts, like some people have speculated.
    The forced kissing she says happened is a whole different ballgame.

    Parent

    So "shorter" is a synonym ... (none / 0) (#136)
    by Yman on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 03:09:21 PM EST
    ... for strawman?

    Parent
    No worker is more susceptible... (none / 0) (#130)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 01:02:33 PM EST
    to sexual harassment or assault than a sex worker...and some talking heads on tv news could certainly be compared more closely to cam girls/boys than journalists;)

    Parent
    She didn't agree to be part (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by jondee on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 10:01:21 AM EST
    of this particular sexual joke, but judging by her "dignified" track record of targeting the overgrown fratboy demograph while exploiting her own status as a cheesecake "object", Al's little photo-op seems almost like satiric commentary on a mentality that Tweeden has never been averse to appealing to.

    Parent
    Thank you for approving of (none / 0) (#138)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:33:03 PM EST
    My sexual harassment of any male actor who has posed with their abs out there. Can't wait to get my grope on.

    And fireman, so many firemen to violate so little time.

    Parent

    The irony is (none / 0) (#139)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:36:31 PM EST
    Almost to a person they would love it.

    It's just true.  It's why gay men have so much easier and happier sex lives than straight men.

    We all want the same thing.

    Parent

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:41:14 PM EST
    I'm not certain they all would. Speaking as someone who sexually harassed back until they shut up and stopped trying me, I'm not certain they'd love it. Because sexual harassment isn't about sex, it's about power.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:42:58 PM EST
    My knowledge of straight men is limited.

    I say try it

    Parent

    If you grab a grabby crap talker by the junk (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:51:34 PM EST
    It usually shrivels away. Just sayin ;)

    Actually if you start talking about men like they are meat that need to be compared and rated in the girls locker room, they would usually quit with me.

    Not always, but usually

    I don't think many women respond like I do. But I got too damn sick of it. You always know in the back of your mind though that you just challenged their power play and someone angry and twisted might decide to really hurt you then.

    Parent

    You have a point there (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 05:35:36 PM EST
    I was talking about this with a female supervisor at my last job which was a game company.  That is/was why I, being gay, made some of them uncomfortable.

    She said it's because they are not used to being objectified.  And they hate it.  They hate being rated and filed based on their looks and figure.

    I said but I don't DO that.

    She said, yes, you do.  I get that you don't mean to.  But you do. Being a woman I am so used to being eye fu@ked.  And that's what you do.

    All I could say was ohhhhhh man.

    Parent

    Also (none / 0) (#142)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:44:02 PM EST
    Roy Moore wouldn't like it.  Mike Pence probably wouldn't like it.

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#144)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:52:50 PM EST
    And I want to grab that Roy Moore like he's an old Coach purse :)

    That creep. Lemme grab him

    Parent

    Might be the first recorded instance of (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by Anne on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 07:45:32 AM EST
    someone's hand throwing up...my hand is gagging a little just thinking about it.

    Parent
    It sure sounds from (none / 0) (#148)
    by MKS on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 06:25:11 PM EST
    these posts that people are grabbing people all over the place....

    Huh?  How did I miss all that going on?

    Parent

    Minding your own business...haha (none / 0) (#150)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 09:33:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Whaaaat?? (none / 0) (#145)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 04:59:50 PM EST
    Sorry, for a straight guy I know and have known a pretty large number of gay guys/women over the years. There is nooooo less drama on your side...

    Parent
    Now that you mention it...hahahaha! (none / 0) (#146)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 05:14:33 PM EST


    Parent
    some of the most interesting reactions (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 07:41:30 AM EST
    to Franken have been from the right.  like Britt Hume.  who said there was an incident and an apology which is very different from Roy Moore.  similar reactions from others on the right.
    seems out of character doesnt it.
    i suspect the reason for the measured response is they know more is coming.  and it wont all be about democrats and if we start running [eople out of government for a Franken level (so far known) offense there may not be enough for a quorum.

    aside from the crass political opinion i personally think there is a world of difference between what is know about Al and what is known about Roy.  both acts need a response.  they absolutely do not, in my opinion, need the SAME response.

    Parent

    Do you think Franken would have called (none / 0) (#67)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:30:00 AM EST
    for an ethics investigation of himself if he suspected there were more shoes to drop?

    Does it matter that Tweeden has accepted his apology and said she is not asking for him to resign?

    And I agree that Franken and Moore are not "the same."  Both his and Trump's strategy is to deny and blame the liberal media fake news.

    Parent

    Yes, yes (none / 0) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 10:50:18 AM EST
    And yes.

    Parent
    Britt Hume (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 11:18:55 AM EST
    also said that Pence was smart for taking his wife with him everywhere. Frankly that said to me that his wife thinks he'll assault any women he is left alone with.

    Parent
    THIS. Thank you, Michael. (none / 0) (#74)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 01:14:15 PM EST
    Sexual humiliation is not a joke.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#77)
    by FlJoe on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 03:10:43 PM EST
    think you might accurately say the jokes are over. Like it or not people have been giggling over this sht since the day's of burlesque, some would say the Book of Genesis and the centuries of literature are full of it. Hell they were joking about Weinstein for decades, it has been part of our culture forever.

    Parent
    yes (1.00 / 2) (#58)
    by linea on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 09:35:43 PM EST
    al franken needs to resign now.
    it is clear from the events described that he is a creep and a perv (in my opinion).

    Parent
    So, when should we expect Trump to (5.00 / 5) (#60)
    by Anne on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 10:07:55 PM EST
    resign?

    We heard the president say - he's on tape - about moving on a married woman that he wanted to fk.  We heard him advise Billy Bush about the  privileges of celebrity.

    And then there are all the allegations of sexual assault against him.

    And according to Trump and his spokespeople, all those women are lying, or, we're supposed to look at them and realize these women didn't meet his standards - I guess he only moved on the beautiful women, right?

    Why is this man still president?  Why hasn't he been the subject of any ethics investigation?

    And now he has the unmitigated gall to tweet about Franken?  Trump wants to know where Franken's hands go in the picture?  What, is he just wondering why Franken didn't go right for the p&ssy?

    I'm not defending Franken, not by a long shot, so don't even go there.  But someone needs to explain to me how the president who bragged about assaulting women manages to hold his tongue on Roy Moore, but feels he has the right to go after Franken.

    This is all making me sick.

    Parent

    Uh . . . (none / 0) (#46)
    by Chuck0 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 05:25:34 PM EST
    NO!

    Parent
    What is wrong with Democrats? (5.00 / 7) (#100)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 09:47:07 AM EST
    And some here? Some can't seem to wait to form the all too familiar circular firing squad popular on the left. Sen. Franken is not tRump, certainly not Roy Moore or Weinstein. Franken is one the smartest policy wonks in the Senate. And a true liberal. His accuser has accepted his apology. How the hell do any of you get to be more offended than the actual recipient of Franken's behavior?

    i feel (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 11:15:51 AM EST
    like we need to be careful because the GOP is attempting to weaponize this issue much like they used Paula Jones to do the same thing.

    Parent
    Weaponization requires complacency (5.00 / 3) (#105)
    by jmacWA on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 12:07:17 PM EST
    Hopefully Dems have learned their lesson, and won't let the Reps get away with this.  I like to think we would be in a much better place than we are today if there had been more pushback against other Rep tirades, like the "Liberal Media", "Both Sides Do it"... etc

    Parent
    two take aways (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 09:26:53 AM EST
    for the morning shows.

    republicans are terrified of Moore.  they are fully aware they are screwed win or lose.
    also they understand at a celluar level that "me too" is ultimately coming for Cheeto, stated explicitly on at least 2.

    seriously, sundays show are fun today.

    Zowie (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 10:25:19 AM EST
    Just saw a Roy Moore supporter use Tawana Brawley as an excuse.

    Da-um

    That is some serious desperation

    Questions have arisen about the photo... (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by unitron on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 11:29:23 PM EST
    ...which suggest part of her story might not be completely accurate.

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/931413204504334336?utm_medium=android

    And from another one of his threads where he starts a hashtag

    "4. Her account was so stomach-churning, I wanted to find out who the photographer was - being an EYEWITNESS TO A FELONY ABOARD A UNITED STATES MILITARY AIRCRAFT.

    Hence, #FindthePhotographer.
    I was trying to help her get justice, because NO ONE in the media had asked.
    5. So - I looked where I thought I would find the photographer's information. She's a professional model, and photographers OFTEN watermark their work. I was hoping the rat bastard slipped up.

    I found that the owner's info was gone.
    And that other things were deleted."

    revolutions eat their young (4.00 / 2) (#153)
    by thomas rogan on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 12:10:40 PM EST
    Once in a while an evangelical type goes rogue, but most are like Mike Pence.  On the other hand, non-religious Hollywood or Democratic types have fewer inhibitions and in truth more of them will be tripped up by sexual pecadillos, whether you say JFK (versus Nixon), Clinton, Al Franken, John Conyers, Charlie Rose, etc, etc.
    In the long run Democrats will take more of a beating if this is a disqualifier to serve in public office, the more so because everyone knows that Trump was always a Democrat anyway and only became a Republican to run for president.  If you investigate and get rid of him then you have Mike Pence.

    Your funny (none / 0) (#165)
    by Yman on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:34:46 PM EST
    Let's play a game.  You name all the Democrats you can who've been caught in sex sandals.  I'll name Republicans/evangelicals.  Then we'll compare numbers.

    BTW - Trump is all yours.  Much as anyone would be embarrassed to be associated with him, he's a Republican - the head of your party.

    Parent

    You both have a point (5.00 / 3) (#166)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:40:39 PM EST
    The difference is usually with democrats it's more or less straight up adultery.
    With the fundies is children, diapers,wrestling coaches and men's rooms.

    Parent
    It is a stain on (3.00 / 2) (#42)
    by KeysDan on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 02:15:50 PM EST
    those who voted for, or otherwise enabled, the election of Donald Trump; his moral oblivion was documented, in a video, bringing along credence to other charges.

      Similarly, ex-Judge Moore's moral vacuity credibly covers the gamut from creepy to assault, effected with the acumen of a pervy professional.  If Alabama voters bring him to the US Senate, they share the shame, as with Trump.

     Clarence Thomas should never have been confirmed, even though in a different era, Anita Hill's testimony and corroborations made her totally believable.  Joe Biden, then Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, while ultimately voting against Thomas, could have thwarted the nomination. But, he didn't.

     All politicians should have taken notice when the deciding vote to confirm Thomas was that of long-term senator, Alan Dixon (D. IL), a vote that came back to bite him at the next election with Dixon's Democratic primary defeat by Carol Mosley Braun, who went on to win the senate seat.

    Minnesota voters did not know of Senator Franken's sexual aggressiveness, but they do now. As do members of the Democratic party.  And, it would be uncommon for such behavior to be a one-off..just comedic antics--- gross, but contextual joking that went a little too far.

     Senator Franken's boorish and unacceptable behavior outweighs and blunts his senatorial value and effectiveness.  I will continue to await a fuller picture, but it seems unlikely that Franken can remain a Democratic US Senator.    

    Never, ever, liked the guy. (2.00 / 1) (#2)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 11:13:23 AM EST


    The only qualified person left to be president... (1.00 / 1) (#109)
    by thomas rogan on Sat Nov 18, 2017 at 10:42:25 PM EST
    If we remove everyone who ever made an off color joke then I guess it leaves Mike Pence.  He sure looks awfully smart now.

    Mike Pence smart? Qualified? (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by Anne on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 08:20:25 AM EST
    He sure knows he wants to infuse his religion into every aspect of people's lives, subvert the Constitution, but those things disqualify him, in my opinion.

    I still think it's creepy that he has to take Mommy everywhere women might be  - does that mean he's smart, or that Mommy afraid Daddy can't be trusted to be alone with women?

    No, there's something "off" about Pence, and it might be that he wants to be president so bad.  Why would such a smart, religious man spend so much time kissing up to someone like Trump?

    And leaving aside that aspect, after you look at what he did to Indiana, you may want to rethink the "Pence is smart" thing.

    Parent

    Actually no (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 12:55:04 PM EST
    He looks exactly like a Roy Moore creeper that his wife has to control

    Parent
    RIP LA's 100.3 FM The Sound (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 02:57:55 PM EST
    You will be missed.

    Sorry wrong thread (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 03:26:50 PM EST


    Parent
    If Franken did what she says he did... (none / 0) (#51)
    by unitron on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 06:54:11 PM EST
    ...(in addition to the photo which he obviously did--or at least made it look like he did), then how much does it matter how long ago he did it and what his station in life at the time was?

    What if, instead of 10 or 11 years ago, it had been 20 years?  Or 30?

    What if it had happened back when he was 25 or younger?

    At what chronological point, and whether in elected office (or campaigning)at the time or not, does it cross the line into "Never mind the ethics investigation, Al, just resign and get out of our sight.", and at what point is it too long ago to automatically end his Senate career?

    Maybe Franken will go on the Bill Maher show (none / 0) (#56)
    by McBain on Thu Nov 16, 2017 at 08:26:26 PM EST
    this week. He's been on several times before. It would probably be an interesting interview.

    Last week was completely disappointing, non one talked about Louis CK.  Sarah Silverman was one of the guests and they still didn't talk about him.

    Trump on Trump ( all liars), (none / 0) (#75)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 01:27:35 PM EST
    Trump on Moore (crickets), Trump on Franken: "The Al Frankenstien (sic) picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words.  Where do his hands go in pictures 2,3,4,5, & 6 while she sleeps?"

    Frankenstien?  Childish reference to Dr. Frankenstein's monster?  Or, a loud dog whistle, picking up on the Bernie Bernstein fraudulent and antisemitic robocall in Alabama, regarding Roy Moore from a Bernie Bernstein?

    I wonder how Mr. & Mrs.... (none / 0) (#76)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 02:22:35 PM EST
    Kushnerstein feel about all this semite-baiting they are party too.

    I'd guess as long as the tax cuts and estate tax repeal gets through, who cares what Daddy thinks of your religion or whose genitals gets grabbed...just get that paper!

    Parent

    well, (none / 0) (#79)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 04:13:02 PM EST
    does make a good Frankenstein monster.

    Parent
    Ya gotta point lol... (none / 0) (#84)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 05:41:43 PM EST


    Parent
    Trumpenstein (none / 0) (#94)
    by leap on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 08:47:21 PM EST
    Trump makes a better one

    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#80)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 04:13:22 PM EST
    "ME TOO" is coming for Cheeto.  It's inevitable

    The "difference" (none / 0) (#81)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 04:16:13 PM EST
    Noted today by Wormtongue being he denied it and Franken did not.

    Not sustainable

    Parent

    Tapper (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 04:17:15 PM EST
    had all of them on one screen today, 16 but I would say 16 is probably the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of them that signed NDAs apparently who are afraid to break them. All the ones that are afraid should show up at Gloria Allred's door.

    Parent
    16 (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Nov 17, 2017 at 04:20:47 PM EST
    Is a good start

    Parent
    Alabamas three largest papers (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:06:29 PM EST
    ran this on the front pages today

    STAND FOR DECENCY -
     REJECT ROY MOORE

    To be clear: it's not only his record on women and children that disqualifies Moore. If we vote for Roy Moore, Alabama will also show that we don't care about you if you're gay or Muslim or Catholic. If you're an atheist or an immigrant. We'll show each other that we only care about Roy Moore's definition of Alabama. And that there's not room for the rest of us.
    A LINK (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:08:39 PM EST
    THAT WORKS

    Parent
    I wonder (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:18:57 PM EST
    if it will have any effect. Newspapers literally begged voters to reject Trump all across the country.

    Parent
    who knows (none / 0) (#118)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:28:27 PM EST
    probably cant hurt

    Moore is done.  IMO

    Parent

    the former 14 yo (none / 0) (#119)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:29:54 PM EST
    is going to be on the TODAY show tomorrow.

    Parent
    the former 14 yo (none / 0) (#120)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Nov 19, 2017 at 07:30:03 PM EST
    is going to be on the TODAY show tomorrow.

    Parent
    Did you see (none / 0) (#122)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 03:37:05 AM EST
    on twitter where Hannity asked one of them to come on his show and the response the lawyer gave? The lawyer literally ripped his show a new one in that letter.

    Parent
    Come into my parlor (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 06:54:14 AM EST
    Said the spider..

    Parent
    You knew Marcus Aurelius? (none / 0) (#133)
    by kdog on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 01:28:18 PM EST
    I did not say I knew him I said he touched me inappropriately on the buttocks once.

    Predatorian! (none / 0) (#134)
    by vicndabx on Mon Nov 20, 2017 at 02:34:24 PM EST


    Parent
    Upon reflection I think I am (none / 0) (#155)
    by fishcamp on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 04:00:28 PM EST
    successfully way out of the groping loop.  We simply had way too many clothes on up in Aspen to attempt any type of grope even if we wanted to.  Boob bumps happened, but they were so padded with clothing they didn't count.  Harvey and now Charlie walking around nude is sick, and of course Roy and Cosby are in their own categories.  We all like Al Franken and are saddened to hear about his alleged problems.  More men are being named daily with a variety of improper sexual situations and one I just heard about was for leering.  Where's the thrill?  I just don't get it.  

    Franken's alleged victim (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 26, 2017 at 02:15:00 PM EST
    was fully clothed, including body armor.

    Parent
    i just commented (none / 0) (#156)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 05:36:42 PM EST
    in the open (i think) about unconsciously leering.  
    i did not realize i was doing it.  

    Parent
    This is starting to slowly veer into (none / 0) (#157)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 06:34:55 PM EST
    Bridget Bishop turned me into a newt territory.

    Unconscious leering..

    Parent

    Yes but (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 06:38:55 PM EST
    Did you read the comment I was referring to.  It was made by a friend.  It was not malicious.  And I realized on reflection I WAS leering.  

    And honestly I can see why that would not be a welcome thing.

    And admittedly I could care less it some guy doesn't like my leering in Wal-Mart

    In the workplace it's a different thing.

    Parent

    Yeah (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by jondee on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:03:51 PM EST
    on the whole though, I would say we're starting to wander into treacherous waters when we start reading into and interpreting other people's 'looks' and facial expressions.

    I've run afoul of that my whole life because apparently I look pissed off to some people at times when I'm just serious and super concentrated.

    Parent

    I agree with you (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Nov 21, 2017 at 08:06:30 PM EST
    That said, a gay man in a straight world has to, if he wants to be successful, be more self aware.

    I suspect women do too.

    Parent

    Haha, me too (none / 0) (#182)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Nov 26, 2017 at 01:33:20 PM EST
    Thanks great grandma. I have stoic resting b*tch face just like she did.

    Parent
    Here's what puzzles me. People (none / 0) (#184)
    by oculus on Sun Nov 26, 2017 at 02:17:00 PM EST
    whose face is always a broad smile.  Nature or nurture. I know they are not eternally happy.

    Parent
    True, but my brain logs them in (none / 0) (#185)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Nov 27, 2017 at 05:20:46 AM EST
    As content and approachable. In truth they may be exhausted from everyone approaching them, especially if they are smiling introverts.

    Parent
    HUFFINGTONPOST.COM (none / 0) (#180)
    by linea on Wed Nov 22, 2017 at 08:34:37 PM EST
    11/22/2017 07:10 pm ET
    Two More Women Accuse Sen. Al Franken Of Inappropriate Touching

    Two more women have told HuffPost that Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) touched their butts in separate incidents. These are the third and fourth such allegations against Franken in the past week. Leeann Tweeden, a radio host, wrote last week that Franken had kissed and groped her without her consent during a 2006 USO tour. On Monday, Lindsay Menz accused Franken of groping her at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010.

    The two additional women, who said they were not familiar with each others' stories, both spoke on condition of anonymity. But their stories, which describe events during Franken's first campaign for the Senate, are remarkably similar -- and both women have been telling them privately for years.

    In a statement to HuffPost, Franken said, "It's difficult to respond to anonymous accusers, and I don't remember those campaign events."

    The first woman, who spoke to HuffPost on condition of anonymity because she's worried she'll be harassed online for making the allegation, said Franken groped her when they posed for a photo after a June 25, 2007, event hosted by the Minnesota Women's Political Caucus in Minneapolis.

    "My story is eerily similar to Lindsay Menz's story," the first woman said. "He grabbed my buttocks during a photo op."

    The second woman told HuffPost that Franken cupped her butt with his hand at a 2008 Democratic fundraiser in Minneapolis, then suggested the two visit the bathroom together. She spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear that the allegation could affect her position at work.

    "My immediate reaction was disgust," the second woman said. "But my secondary reaction was disappointment. I was excited to be there and to meet him. And so to have that happen really deflated me. It felt like: `Is this really the person who is going to be in a position of power to represent our community?'"
    Sen. Al Franken Gets A Groping Allegation of His Own | 185 comments (185 topical)

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