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The Trumps and Russia: Too Many Coincidences, Too Many Lawyers

There are now so many Trump camp lawyers in the Russia investigations,they seem to be stepping on themselves as they try to control the damage to their individual client, without overtly sinking another family member. Sure, there are those who wonder whether one or more of the lawyers are intentionally trying to shift blame to another lawyer's client, but I'm not a conspiracy theorist and while I can't speak to Trump's lawyers, never having heard of them before, I don't think the criminal defense lawyers involved for Kushner or Donald, Jr. play that way. Nor do I think there's a conspiracy by disgruntled FBI agents to leak information obtained from Kushner's team to get back at Trump for firing James Comey. That's just too convoluted for me to buy into.

What I find significant: [More...]

Going back a few days, Michael Isikoff at Yahoo News reported that the Donald Trump, Jr. emails were first discovered by Jared Kushner's legal team during the third week in June as they went through his records to correct the omissions on his contacts with foreign agents in his security clearance application. According to Isikoff, Jared's lawyers met with the FBI on June 21 to provide the omitted foreign contacts information.
The FBI were told the fact that Kushner met the Russians on June 21 when he updated his SF-86 security clearance form to disclose that and many other meetings.

The FBI interviewed Jared personally on June 23. As the June 9, information was new, and involved a meeting with a Russian lawyer, I think it's fair to assume he was questioned about the meeting. But, how did he answer? Since he is presumably still under investigation, perhaps not satisfactorily, but that's my speculation.

Moving forward to a few days ago, Trump told the media not once but twice he just learned about the Russian meeting with his son, son-in-law, Manafort, Russian lawyer and Russian lobbyist a "few days ago" after the media published it.

Trump told Reuters in an interview on Wednesday that he learned just “a couple of days ago” that Donald Jr. had met with the Russian lawyer, Natalia Veselnitskaya, hoping to receive information that “would incriminate Hillary” and was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”

Trump repeated that assertion in a talk with reporters on Air Force One on his way to Paris Wednesday night. “I only heard about it two or three days ago,” he said, according to a transcript of his talk.

But stepping back in time to June 7, 2016, the New York Times reported last week:

At 6:14 p.m. on June 7, 2016, Donald Trump Jr. clicked the send button on an email to confirm a meeting with a woman described as a “Russian government attorney” who would give him “information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia.”

Three hours later, his father, Donald J. Trump, claimed victory in the final primary races propelling him to the Republican presidential nomination and a general election contest against former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. In his victory speech, Mr. Trump promised to deliver a major address detailing Mrs. Clinton’s “corrupt dealings” to give “favorable treatment” to foreign governments, including “the Russians.”

Donald Trump Jr., said this past week he never told his father about the meeting. According to the New York Times article, the White House said the timing was a coincidence.

This is a coincidence? (At 7 minutes in.)

More from the Times article:

[Trump, Jr.] said Mr. Kushner left the meeting within 10 minutes, while Mr. Manafort spent most of the time looking at his phone. Mr. Trump said he did not mention the meeting to his father. “There was nothing to tell,” he said. “It was literally just a wasted 20 minutes, which was a shame.”

Isikoff reports Trump's personal lawyer and the lawyer for the Trump Org., Marc Kasowitz and Alan Garten, were both told quickly.

But the sources told Yahoo News that Marc Kasowitz, the president’s chief lawyer in the Russia investigation, and Alan Garten, executive vice president and chief legal officer of the Trump Organization, were both informed about the emails in the third week of June, after they were discovered by lawyers for Kushner, who is now a senior White House official.

Donald Jr. lawyered up on June 27th, when the Trump campaign paid NYC attorney Alan Futerfas $50,000., according to an FEC campaign report filed this weekend. This was just six days after Kushner's legal team found and turned over the details of the meeting to the FBI, via the amended security form, four days after Kushner was interviewed by the FBI (for the second time) and a week before the New York Times broke the story on July 8th.

On Monday, June 13, Trump made no speech about Hillary. On Wednesday, June 15, the hacked DNC emails were released by someone identifying himself as Gucifer. Later in the summer, Wikileaks joined the publishing party. Did Goldstone get played by the Russians? I wouldn't doubt it. He was so excited about the meeting he posted his time of arrival at Trump Tower on Facebook -- Thursday, June 9 at 3:12 p.m. Who does that for a secret meeting with someone he believes is a Russian government lawyer providing dirt on an election rival?

Still, it seems likely to me the ultimate source of the whole Russia story meeting was Jared's legal team, and intentionally or not, they threw a whole lot of people under the investigation bus, including Donald Trump, Sr. and Donald Trump, Jr. It seems they timely warned the other lawyers, but how do you unring that bell? No wonder Jamie Gorelick, who represents Kushner in his conflicts of interest and security clearance matters, has recused herself from representing him in the Russia criminal investigation, turning it over to the highly experienced, top criminal defense lawyer Abbe Lowell (whom I last followed extensively during his representation of John Edwards in his criminal trial.) Gorelick says she informed Kushner there could be a conflict because Bob Mueller, who had been a partner at her firm, took some firm lawyers with him when he was appointed to lead the Russia investigation, but I'm not buying that's the whole reason.

I hope Abbe makes a zillion dollars from Kushner (so long as it's Kushner, the Trump Campaign and its donors who pay, not the federal government or the taxpayers.) As for why the campaign can pay legal fees, I've read that it's because Trump filed his notice of intent to seek re-election a day or so after the November 9, election, which allows the campaign to continue its existence, and campaigns are allowed to pay legal fees for campaign workers/employees investigated for misconduct during the course of the campaign. I have no idea if that's true, but it makes some sense to me.

I also think it's likely Jared is viewed as a linchpin if not a principal focus of the criminal investigation. For one thing, it was Jared who hired (and worked with) Brad Parscale, the San Antonio website developer with no prior political campaign experience. Parscale confirmed this week on his Twitter account that he has agreed to be interviewed by the House Intelligence Committee which is investigating Russia's involvement/interference in the election. Here's McClatchy's report on that tie-in. But that's a blog post of its own, and this post is long enough.

Also a blog post of its own: Natalia Veselnitskaya, the Russian lawyer, and Rinat Akhmetshin, the supposed former Russian military official with intelligence links, but I'll elaborate a little here.

Why would Goldstone refer to the Russian lawyer as a "government lawyer" or "crown prosecutor" when emailing with Donald Trump, Jr? Is that how Trump pal and musical performer Emin (the son of a Russian oligarch and P.R. client of Goldstone's) described him? Was it because she's said to be close to the real life Russian "attorney general", named Yury Chaika? No answers yet.

Also somehow figuring into this mess: Republican senator Charles Grassley has been asking for for information on Rinat Ahmetshin and Natalia Veselnitskaya's client Prevezon since at least March 31, 2017. See Grassley's press release and letter and especially scroll down to the sources in the letter's footnotes).

Briefly, as I understand it, Prevezon was a defendant in a $230 million civil fraud lawsuit DOJ brought alleging that a Russian businessman named Denis Katsyv "used some of the Magnitsky funds, after they were laundered through European banks, to buy real estate in Manhattan". The case was headed to trial when DOJ, in May, 2017, mysteriously settled it (shortly after Preet Bahara left) for a paltry sum of $6 million. The second amended complaint is here.

And just days ago, Grassley issued a press release and letter demanding to know why lawyer Veselnitskaya was even in the country in June, 2016 to meet with Donald, Jr. and Kushner and Manafort, when by her own statements, her request to extend her visa in January, 2016 was denied. (I've seen some articles stating she got some kind of secret (i.e.not officially documented) extension so she could remain in the country for the trial of her client, Prevezon, but I would think Grassley would know that, so maybe that's not true.)

Also curious, the Sunday Times UK reports in Rob Goldstone, the UK link in Trump's Russian mire; A flamboyant publicist and the president's son are now at the heart of the Moscow scandal, July 16, 2017, subscription only (Thanks again, Lexis!):

Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Russian lawyer viewed by the CIA as a proxy for President Vladimir Putin. She is reported to have powerful Russian clients and had a role in the Kremlin's unsuccessful efforts to persuade Congress to repeal the Obama-era law penalising top Russian officials blamed for the death in jail of Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who had exposed high-level fraud. (my emphasis)

Back to lawyers: I'd like to be a fly on the wall during the conversations between Abbe Lowell and Alan Futerfas.

I think Donald Trump needs to put a muzzle on his personal lawyers and advisors. Jay Sekolow goofed up this weekend. He claimed the Secret Service should have vetted Donald Trump Jr.,'s guests at the Russia meeting. But Trump, Jr. didn't have secret service protection at the time. Corey Lewandowski said said Trump was in Florida the day of the meeting (June 9.) Turns out that's wrong too. He was in Florida on June 7 giving his victory speech promising a speech with new negative Hillary news on Monday or Tuesday, but he was in Trump Tower all day on June 9th, the day of the meeting .... he didn't go to Florida again until June 11.

Oh the tangled web we weave, indeed. This article from Radio Free Europe is very interesting, and if true, bad for Donald Trump, Jr.:

But in an interview with AP on July 14, Rinat Akhmetshin, a Russian-American lobbyist and former Soviet military officer, said he was present at the meeting when Russian lawyer Natalya Veselnitskaya told Trump Jr. that people tied to Russia were funding the Democratic National Committee and illegally supporting Clinton's campaign.

Akhmetshin said Veselnitskaya brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed what she believed was the flow of illicit funds to the Democrats.

Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to Trump Jr. and suggested that making the information public could help the campaign, he told AP. "This could be a good issue to expose how the DNC is accepting bad money," Akhmetshin recalled Veselnitskaya saying.

I could be wrong, but I sense the hand of the Russian Government playing the Trump clan like a fiddle. When have any Russians, let alone lawyers, lobbyists acting for or against the Russian government or supposed former intelligence agents, been so free with their comments to so many media outlets about such a serious matter as Russia's potential interference in our election? Someone seems to be telling them what to say, and too many people who didn't follow instructions have ended up dead. As for this just being a case of inexperienced Trump children playing "opposition research", that's most unlikely. Anyone with even a modicum of a moral compass would know they should have picked up the phone to call law enforcement when they got the first message from Goldstone.

My final thought for now: What began during the infamous ride down (rather than up) the Trump Plaza escalator in Manhattan as a cheap imitation of Dynasty may in reality turn out to be more like "The Beverly Hillbillies go to Washington."

Memo to the Trump Clan: Money may buy the support of unhappy, marginalized, under-informed, often bigoted voters living in rural parts of America, but it doesn't buy class, decency, or the respect of anyone else, here or abroad.

< Trump's Poll Numbers Continue to Fall | Trump's New Theme Party: "Made In America" >
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  • Display: Sort:
    I (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 07:16:02 PM EST
    think the Russians discussing tRump has been leaked and reported on months ago, the whole thing started early last year when some Eastern Europeans tipped us off, the dossier documented some of it and I seem to remember other reporting on it.

    I think he was compromised years ago by the Russians, they have been propping him up for years by allowing him to launder the dirty Russian money.

    tRump has been a tool of the Russian oligarchs, gangsters and Putin himself for years, given the money involved I would guess they would have a "handler" or two nearby. I'm picking Boris Epstein as one of them.

    The reporting I'm talking about is recent (none / 0) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 07:30:45 PM EST
    this is 5 days ago on CNBC

    US intel reportedly overheard Russian officials talk about Trump associates in 2015
    U.S. intelligence agencies reportedly overheard Russian officials talking about people associated with Donald Trump.
    The Wall Street Journal reports that those conversations are being reexamined by investigators.
    Sources told the newspaper that agents are doing so after the president's son released emails which set up a meeting with a Russian lawyer.

    I think there was reports from European Intel sources a while back about Russian money being funneled into the 2016 election.  


    Parent

    Here is the (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 07:34:13 PM EST
    Hmmmm (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 07:48:12 PM EST
    In 2015, intelligence agencies weren't sure what to make of the surveillance reports, which they viewed as vague and inconclusive, the current and former officials said. But the volume of the mentions of Trump associates by the Russians did have officials asking each other, "What's going on?" one former official said.


    Parent
    One (none / 0) (#11)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 08:58:20 PM EST
    way another I'm not buying this, why were all over this in the spring of 2015 and asleep at the wheel in spring and summer of 2016 when things got less vague?

     

    Parent

    Unless they were not asleep (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 09:05:16 PM EST
    We now know the FBI was paying attention much earlier than we knew.

    Also if you read that it's clear they had no idea what it meant.

    I mean this a year before even the escalator ride.  There really is no reason they would have suspected what it appears now was happening.

    I think the scope of this is likely to stun even us when we are allowed to see it.  It was from the first a counter intelligence investigation.  A literal spy hunt.  

    That's why I think public opinion will turn

    Parent

    Spring (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 06:14:04 AM EST
    of 2015 was mere months before he announced, he was already creating a buzz here, it's not surprising that the Russians were excited about their tool running for president. With tRump and his cronies deep ties to the Russians there was plenty or names to be dropped in discussions. Like you I believe Putin has had someone close to tRump who kept him informed, maybe even encouraged him, hence the apparent foreknowledge now apparent in the chatter.

    The FBI probably knew plenty about tRump long before the escalator to hell ride. Felix Sater was working for the CIA, the FBI and tRump at the same time, while awaiting sentencing for his conviction. There were Russian mobsters running  world wide gambling and money laundering schemes literally just below his feet. Given that the tradecraft of the tRump team is somewhere south of Maxwell Smart and Inspector Closeau the FBI had to see something.

    I for one will not be surprised by the scope of this, it has been on my radar since early 2016  and there has been tons of evidence in the public record, plenty of informed speculation, intelligence leaks that all point in the same direction. The behavior of tRump's team has virtually screamed guilty.

    It has been a ever rising tide and currently it's up to our nostrils and  just maybe public opinion will turn soon? Bomb shell after bombshell, lie after lie the 36% have stood strong, the craven Repugs continue to put party over country and the media tut-tut and then move on to the next shiny object. and revert to their both-siderism  mean.

    Parent

    Intelligence officers are trained to ... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 03:48:37 AM EST
    ... notice such anomalies, like abnormal amounts of airwave chatter or deviations from established norms and routines. But as you said, that doesn't necessarily mean they can connect the dots right away at that particular moment.

    I'm reminded of a true local story from December 1941, when the U.S. Army Pacific Command was only recently outfitted with state-of-the-art radar equipment, which they had then placed on a mountain ridge overlooking Kahuku Point on the North Shore of Oahu.

    One early dawn morning, only six days after the radar's installation, the young enlisted soldier who was manning the post at that hour noticed that the radar had caught sight of what appeared to be an abnormally large flight of incoming aircraft, bearing down on Oahu directly from the north.

    So he dutifully rang up his commanding officer, who told him to not worry about it and go to breakfast, because Hickam AAFB was expecting a squadron of B-17 bombers arriving from California sometime that morning, and what he observed on the radar screens was obviously those aircraft.

    After he hung up, the soldier continued tracking the incoming aircraft for another 30 minutes, then turned off the radar and headed down the mountain to get something to eat.

    But what the young man had actually seen on the radar screens was not the expected USAAF B-17s from California but rather, the incoming first wave of over 200 Japanese warplanes which had one hour earlier departed six Imperial Navy aircraft carriers then positioned 200 miles due north of Oahu, and were at that moment racing south to attack the U.S. Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor.

    Hindsight is always 20/20 -- and sometimes, very painfully so.

    Parent

    Still (none / 0) (#9)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 08:01:57 PM EST
    old news  
    Investigators are re-examining conversations detected by U.S. intelligence agencies in spring 2015
    and this
    The conversations have been in investigators' possession for some time, but officials said the Donald Trump Jr. news this week prompted them to look at them again.

    I guess it might be news to the WSJ, but I heard about most of that months ago, to be fair around 80% of the Russian reporting by the MSM is not news to me.

    On second glance it does seem to stretch out the timeline a little earlier and seems like we were directly monitoring them rather than our allies as we were sort of led to believe. still the  excessive Russian chatter about tRump has been long established, this reporting is nothing than breathless reporting of investigators slogging back through old evidence, with a couple of more names,dates and time to index off of.

    Parent

    Thanks for the thorough recap (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Lora on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 10:19:36 AM EST
    Great summary.

    I just shake my head.  It's too vast.  And the amount of Russian reach and interference is just mind-boggling.  

    This is a segue, perhaps a little O.T. but:

    I don't get the feeling that we (meaning we Americans and our various governments) are taking all this Russian interference seriously.

    I mean, on one level we are, because we want to find out who, when, where, how etc.  But in terms of protecting our country from future interference?  I'm not seeing it.  That, to me, is the take-home message from all this.

    question (none / 0) (#1)
    by Alexei Schacht on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 04:29:12 PM EST
    Jeralyn
    I'm a criminal defense lawyer too and I appreciate your thoughts here; I have a follow-up question: please explain more specifically what you only hint at regarding why Jamie Gorelick may be stepping back from the fuller representation.
    Thanks.
    Alexei
     

    Hi Alexei (none / 0) (#23)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 04:31:36 PM EST
    Good to see you, I remember your comments here on some other cases. I really don't have anything more specific to add at this point. It's just a hunch. The firm also represents Paul Manafort. Here's an ABA article from yesterday on her getting out.

    Parent
    Thanks Jeralyn! (none / 0) (#43)
    by Alexei Schacht on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 06:55:16 AM EST
    Exactly (none / 0) (#2)
    by FlJoe on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 05:32:34 PM EST
    I don't think the criminal defense lawyers involved for Kushner or Donald, Jr. play that way. Nor do I think there's a conspiracy by disgruntled FBI agents to leak information obtained from Kushner's team to get back at Trump for firing James Comey. That's just too convoluted for me to buy into.

    But, if it's not Kushner, not Junior, not the FBI, that leaves Manafort. Personally I think Manafort turned over the info at the end of May

    he committee's letter to Page asked him to list any Russian official or business executive he met with between June 16, 2015 and Jan. 20, 2017. It also asked him to provide information about Russia-related real estate transactions during that period. And it seeks all his email or other communications during that period with Russians, or with the Trump campaign about Russia or Russians.

    Similar letters were sent to Manafort and Stone, and those men sent information to Senate investigators by last Friday's deadline

    The timing  of "discovery" of Kushner's involvement does seem awfully suspicious, he and his lawyers had months to file his amended clearance app, yet they missed it until they just stumbled upon it months later. I call bs, they either knew or feared this was going to break so it was pure CYA for something he had purposely kept secret(YMMV).

    While it's possible that the existence of  the meeting  was leaked to the press originally (after or even part of the CYA) it seems extremely improbable anybody would leak the emails, nothing to gain that I can see.  Manafort in many ways has the least to lose(my gut feeling he is in the process of flipping). Given that he was one of the first to turn over documents and he has plenty of other issues with the FBI he had plenty of incentive to behave and lay it all on the line.

    I have read much of the speculations of NYT's sources (the reporters were a bit coy in print and more so on TV) but I have seen nobody pinning it on Manafort(most likely via the Sen Intel Cmte).  
    It just seems so logical to me, am I missing something?

    I agree about the Russians (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 06:41:27 PM EST
    Being in the driver's seat.  One of the most interesting scoops recently was the one that said US Intel had been hearing an unusual and alarming amount of Russian conversations about Trump and to Trump associates.  More than a year before he said he was running.

    I know how crazy it sounds (but take a look around) but it would not surprise me if he was maybe encouraged, maybe through cutouts, to run by Putin himself.

    With promises of financial and "other" help.  It would explain why Trump is willing to trash anyone and anything except Putin and Russia.

    Well, Jeralyn, on the one hand, ... (none / 0) (#7)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 07:48:08 PM EST
    ... we have "[a]nyone with even a modicum of a moral compass" -- and then on the other hand, we have the Trumps, a multi-generational bunch of gold-digging and silver-plated grifters whose modus operandi appears to be premised entirely upon their own misguided notion that rules and laws are for chumps.

    And speaking of chumps -- or perhaps more appropriately in this particular instance, a potential mark -- guess who now seems to think that the Republican National Committee should be picking up the legal tab for the administration's present fix?

    "Another question is who will pay the legal fees for the president and administration officials involved in the Russia inquiries. Some in Trump's orbit are pushing the Republican National Committee to bear the costs, said three people with knowledge of the situation, including one who euphemistically described the debate as a 'robust discussion.'

    "Although the RNC does have a legal defense fund, it well predates the Russia investigations and is intended to be used for legal challenges facing the Republican Party, such as a potential election recount.

    "The RNC has not made a decision, in part because the committee is still researching whether the money could legally be used to help pay legal costs related to Russia. But many within the organization are resisting the effort, thinking it would be more appropriate to create a separate legal defense fund for the case."

    "Robust discussion," indeed. Grifters gotta grift.

    This (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Jul 17, 2017 at 08:55:26 PM EST
    Gorelick says she informed Kushner there could be a conflict because Bob Mueller, who had been a partner at her firm, took some firm lawyers with him when he was appointed to lead the Russia investigation, but I'm not buying that's the whole reason.

    Turns out Paul Manaforts lawyer is also a partner at Wilmer Hale.  Reginald Brown.

    Just heard this on Rachel.

    I know, right! (none / 0) (#15)
    by Nemi on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 06:37:27 AM EST
    I could be wrong, but I sense the hand of the Russian Government playing the Trump clan like a fiddle.

    Being very open and confident about it too. And I for one am surprised that more -- righteous! -- indignation hasn't been shown when both Sergey Lavrov and Vladimir Putin openly mocked America/ns.

    Lavrov feigns shock over firing of James Comey.

    Putin offers Comey political asylum.

    Even though (none / 0) (#16)
    by Nemi on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:13:52 AM EST
    everything that is in any way connected to Donald Tr*mp moves and changes so rapidly that the following article from July 5. needs some updates, it's still an interesting view into All the President's Lawyers.

    For all the uncertainty about what a Trump presidency would bring, one thing should have been clear from the start: It was going to involve a lot of lawyers.

    And from TPM a listing of Robert Mueller's team: Justice League: Meet The Veteran Prosecutors Powering The Russia Probe. One of the several impressive prosecutors on that list is Zainab Ahmad, about whom The New Yorker recently wrote a lengthy profile, linked to in the article.

    And now, the potential consequences of ... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 11:49:27 AM EST
    ... our country's present dilemma, with the Trump administration apparently beholden to the Kremlin for whatever the president's reasons, come into much sharper focus. Moscow-backed Russian separatists in Ukraine today have proclaimed the new state of "Malorossiya."

    But herein lies the rub. The new state of Malorossiya is not just claiming sovereignty over the territory currently under Russian separatist control, but over the entirety of Ukraine itself, thus transforming what was previously a war of secession into a prospective campaign of outright conquest and subjugation.

    How will NATO's European members respond to a clearly provocative act by a Moscow proxy against Ukraine, a neighboring state with which most members enjoy excellent and friendly relations?

    Aloha.

    The 8th attendee at (none / 0) (#19)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 02:53:13 PM EST
    Don jr.'s meeting at Trump Tower has been identified asIrakly (Ike)Kaveladze, b. 1965 in the former Soviet Union (Georgia) and immigrated to the US in 1991 and is a US citizen.  He now lives in California.

     Mr. Kaveladze is a representative (VP for real estate and finances) for Aras Agalarov, the father of the Russian rock performer, Emin, and an associate of Putin. Trump and Agalarov negotiated for a Trump Tower in Moscow.

      The lawyer for Ike said that his client has been asked to speak to Robert Mueller, as a part of the probe into Russian interference with the US election.

    Ike was implicated in a money laundering scheme in 2000, in which he set up more than 2000 corporations in Delaware for Russian brokers and then opened bank accounts for them, without knowing who owned the companies.  More than $1.4 Billion was transferred through these accounts.

    It is now 8 and counting: Miss Velselnitskaya, Jared, Goldstone, Manafort, Junior, a lobbyist, and a translator.

    KeysDan: "Mr. Kaveladze is a representative (VP for real estate and finances) for Aras Agalarov, the father of the Russian rock performer, Emin, and an associate of Putin. Trump and Agalarov negotiated for a Trump Tower in Moscow."

    ... I would also note that the Azeri businessman appears to figure rather prominently in former MI6 operative Christopher Steele's dossier -- you know, the document that was initially and roundly poo-pooed as "unsubstantiated" by critics last January, yet increasingly manages to provide a roadmap to the scandal. According to Steele:


    • Two knowledgeable St Petersburg sources claim Republican candidate TRUMP has paid bribes and engaged in sexual activities but key witnesses silenced and evidence hard to obtain

    • Both believe Azeri business associate of TRUMP, Aras AGALAROV will know the details

    Nancy LeTourneau at The Washington Monthly further argues that Steele's Source D appears to be Mr. Agalarov himself, who had clearly arranged via Rob Goldstone for the fateful June 9, 2016 meeting at Trump Tower between Trump Jr., Jared Kushner and Paul Manafort with Natalia Veselnitskaya and Rinat Akhmetshin, et al., whom I now like to think of as the modern-day equivalent of Natasha Fatale and Boris Badenov from the old Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

    Per the Steele dossier, page 2, Item No. 2:

    "In terms of specifics, Source A confided that the Kremlin had been feeding TRUMP and his team valuable intelligence on his opponents, including Democratic presidential candidate Hillary CLINTON, for several years (more below). This was confirmed by Source D, a close associate of TRUMP who had organized and managed his recent trips to Moscow, and who had reported, also in June 2016, that this Russian intelligence had been 'very helpful.'" (Emphasis is mine.)

    Again, per Nancy LeTourneau:

    "If what I am suggesting is factual, what we have is a story of the June 2016 meeting that is qualitatively different than the one being told by both Donald Jr. and the Russian operatives who attended. Rather than being a meeting that went nowhere, Agalarov (or Source D) told Steele that the Russian intelligence shared at that time was 'very helpful.'" (Emphasis is mine.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    At (none / 0) (#21)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 03:40:45 PM EST
    least the translator looks legit. What a rouges gallery, the Russians are running the whole op as performance art.

    Parent
    The translator is (none / 0) (#46)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 03:10:28 PM EST
    suspected of having ties to Russian intelligence. Was going to link, but it is autoplay. Look up CBS news article on the topic.

    Parent
    From KeysDan: (none / 0) (#24)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 04:37:42 PM EST
    This is the link to the article about person #8 (KeyDans link got skewed so I had to delete his comment.)

    KeysDan also corrected the spelling: It's Irakly Kaveladze/

    Parent

    Sorry, on the linking (none / 0) (#28)
    by KeysDan on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 05:51:05 PM EST
    problem, this has happened a couple of times,  
    Working on correcting it..KD.

    Parent
    A couple of thoughts (none / 0) (#22)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 04:07:07 PM EST
    regarding the present Russia/Trump imbroglio.

    All countries spy on each other. They spy on their enemies, and, they spy on their friends. That's what "intelligence services" are supposed to do. It's been publicly reported how the countries that comprise the EU spy on each other, and, of course how they spy on their enemies and potential enemies around the world. Naturally, the U.S. has, by far, the largest intelligence (spy) network of any country in the world.

    **************
    "Any world leader who expresses shock at being spied on should immediately fall under suspicion by his or her own people for being dangerously naive,"........ John Arquilla, intelligence expert, Naval Postgraduate School.
    **************

    In this age of the internet, keeping track of what's going on in friendly countries is being done along side of surveilling adversarial ones. The revelation of just how widespread this spy game had grown to is what convinced Edward Snowden to bring it public.

    I mention this because I think it's important to  understand the difference between "surveillance," and, "meddling." One is accepted practice, the other, a criminal act.

    Robert Mueller is investigating whether there was actual collusion (a crime) between the Russian Government and Donald Trump in the recent Presidential election.

    In my opinion, he will determine (as it relates only to Donald Trump, Sr.) no crime was committed.

    p.s. I have my reasons for coming to this conclusion, but, that's for another time.

    meddling (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Lora on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 05:18:07 PM EST
    I mention this because I think it's important to  understand the difference between "surveillance," and, "meddling." One is accepted practice, the other, a criminal act.

    I'm not sure why you are bringing up this distinction at this juncture.

    It has been established that the Russians actively meddled in, not just practiced surveillance, in the 2016 presidential election.

    Parent

    "C'mon! Everybody does it!" (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Yman on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 05:26:04 PM EST
    I mention this because I think it's important to  understand the difference between "surveillance," and, "meddling." One is accepted practice, the other, a criminal act.

    And?  This is not just routine "surveillance".  We already know there was a crime committed (the hacking of the DNC servers).  We also know that - at the very least - the President's son and closest advisers all met with Russian reps in order to get opposition research for his father's campaign, which by itself may be a felony.

    Robert Mueller is investigating whether there was actual collusion (a crime) between the Russian Government and Donald Trump in the recent Presidential election.

    Actually, his investigation extends far further than that and is also not limited to whether Trump personally colluded with Russia.

    In my opinion, he will determine (as it relates only to Donald Trump, Sr.) no crime was committed.

    p.s. I have my reasons for coming to this conclusion, but, that's for another time.

    IMO, such a conclusion is nothing more than sheer speculation based on absolutely nothing.  You have no idea what evidence Mueller has seen so far, let alone what evidence may develop during the investigation.

    False cries of "Everybody does it!" and baseless speculation are not remotely convincing.

    Parent

    False and illogical distinction (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:10:19 PM EST
    A great deal of ordinary spying also constitutes a criminal act in the country spied upon. The name of the crime is "espionage." Every spy understands this. It's not a matter of one or the other. If caught in/by the nation you spy on, you may be prosecuted. Your supposed point, NYShooter, is fallacious. And in any event the current investigation is not into espionage, and the accusations against Russia do not involve "surveillance" or spying.

    Parent
    Not sure that's true (none / 0) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:24:54 PM EST
    I don't agree with much of the comment you are replying to but we have been told there is a counter intelligence investigation.  It may or may not involve surveillance but it by definition involves spying.

    This has been discussed pretty broadly and frequently in the media for months.  Literally using the term "spy hunt"

    Another thing about Shooters comment, Trump may or may not get caught up enough in the collusion part but Mueller has a mandate that's very broad and can include anything and everything from RICO crimes to money laundering.

    IMO if you don't think Trump has committed enough crime to sink him you have not been paying attention.


    Parent

    I am coming to believe that Trump (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by Anne on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:51:32 PM EST
    has been up to his eyeballs in corruption and dodgy business practices for a long, long time, and campaigned for and eventually came into office with the same arrogant and wholly amoral sensibility he brought to his businesses - and never for one minute believed he wouldn't be allowed to continue to function this way.

    I don't think he and his minions were at all prepared for the level of scrutiny that attends being president, or how little power he would have to control it.  

    I think what the presidency is going to do for Donald Trump is destroy him, or destroy who he believes himself to be - the question is, does he go on his own or does he have to be removed?

    Whichever it is, it can't come soon enough.
     

    Parent

    I think he still doesn't (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:54:50 PM EST
    Believe he cant do anything he wants.  This new Putin meeting shows that.

    I mean holy hell.  With all the eyes on him and he does this?

    Parent

    One quick quote (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:27:33 PM EST

    Malcolm Nance @MalcolmNance

    Witch hunt? No. The correct term is "spy hunt."
    POLITICO @politico
    Russia's foreign minister calls scandal over alleged Trump ties a 'witch hunt' (link: http://politi.co/2lH7yr0) politi.co/2lH7yr0
    6:57 AM · Mar 3, 2017

    Wouldn't be hard to find dozens.  PArticularly from this guy.

    Parent

    Explain to me what part (none / 0) (#39)
    by Peter G on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 09:19:02 PM EST
    of the Russian election-season agenda was espionage, that is, seeking or obtaining access to secret US government information? I'm not saying it wasn't, but it's not coming to mind.

    Parent
    How about the hacking of ... (5.00 / 3) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 06:05:13 AM EST
    ... confidential state and local voter files and systems, in which the goal was to access that data? Given that the breach was initiated in eastern Europe, that renders it a federal offense. Couldn't that offense be considered as espionage?

    Parent
    Yes, that part makes sense (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Peter G on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 08:56:37 AM EST
    to me, now that you mention it.

    Parent
    I cant (none / 0) (#40)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 05:31:34 AM EST
    I just know we have been told, including by Comey, that as well as or in addition to the Russia hack, the FBI is conducting a counter intelligence investigation.

    Nuance and others say that's what it means.  I would think if you read Nance over the last few months it would explained it better than I can.

    Parent

    There (none / 0) (#41)
    by FlJoe on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 05:44:24 AM EST
    is such a thing as industrial/corporate espionage.

    One could argue that the hack of the DNC and other activities fell into that category.

    Parent

    And that's just during peacetime. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:42:40 PM EST
    Even as recently as 1953, during the height of Cold War hysteria, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed at Sing-Sing for espionage. And during the Second World War, spies who were caught often faced a quick and summary execution without benefit of trial.

    That said, recently released grand jury transcripts from the Rosenberg case do tend to support the argument that Ethel had been knowingly framed by overzealous prosecutors who were eager to get her husband Julius -- who most certainly WAS guilty -- to confess and betray his Soviet contacts, and were perfectly willing to dangle Ethel's fate before him as leverage.

    It was Ethel's brother David Greenglass who was actually Julius's partner in crime, and not Ethel herself. And David admittedly perjured himself on the witness stand during the ensuing trial by implicating his elder sister in the conspiracy, rather than his own wife Ruth. Further, it's pretty apparent prosecutors and Judge Irving R. Kaufman had to have known what Greenglass was doing, since they were present for both Greenglass's grand jury testimony and his trial testimony.

    Shameful, by any measure.

    Parent

    Meanwhile (none / 0) (#25)
    by FlJoe on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 04:48:03 PM EST
    from the growing Putin-tRump bromance
    President Trump held a second, informal meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the sidelines of the Group of 20 summit in Hamburg earlier this month, according to Ian Bremmer, the president of the international consulting firm Eurasia Group.
    ...
    In that conversation, Trump spoke with the Russian leader for roughly an hour, joined only by Putin's translator. The meeting had previously gone without mention by the White House.


    As someone pointed out on twitter (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by ruffian on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 03:12:18 PM EST
    these dinners are prime targets for intelligence collecting. Putin and/or the translator were most likely wired.

    Parent
    Every, .... freakin' ... day (none / 0) (#29)
    by Yman on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 06:16:18 PM EST
    ... there's a new revelation about something Trump or his advisers/relatives are trying to hide.  The weirdest thing about this meeting is that he met with Putin for an hour, in private with no other Americans or even a US translator,despite the fact that he knew the eyes of the world were on him and Putin.  It's beyond strange ... it's incredibly suspicious.  What the he// does Putin have on him?

    Parent
    It really is (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Jul 18, 2017 at 07:15:33 PM EST
    Just really unbelievable.  

    Parent
    There are so many "dots" (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by KeysDan on Wed Jul 19, 2017 at 08:49:59 AM EST
    ...every day, if not every hour, something bizarre and troubling is reported.  We need not get tangled up and lost among the dots....they already are connected to show a clown (therefore, expect a circus), a doofus, an embarrassment, an ignoramus in government, an incurious executive, a narcissist, an immoral leader, and a serious national security threat.  

    Any one should be enough to show him the door, but we await the likely dots of Mueller, to provide the remaining evidence.  The summation should almost be enough to erode the base by a percent or two. And, enough for the rest to give him the boot.

    Parent