Tape Sufaces of Torture of Journalist Kashoggi Inside Embassy

By Jeralyn, Section Foreign Affairs
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 01:37:25 PM EST
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Jamal Kashoggi was tortured for seven minutes before he was beheaded inside the Saudi embassy in Instabul. The Saudi kill squad played loud music as they cut off his fingers. This is according to Turkish sources who have obtained the tape.

Saudi Consul Mohammed al-Otaibi can be heard on one tape saying during Khashoggi’s torture: “Do this outside. You are going to get me in trouble,” according to the paper, which did not reveal how it obtained the tapes.

The Turkish report on the tapes is here.

The source said Khashoggi was “dragged from the Consul General’s office at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and onto the table of his study next door. The screaming stopped when Khashoggi was injected with an as yet unknown substance. Head of forensic evidence in the Saudi general security department Salah Muhammad al-Tubaigy began to cut Khashoggi’s body up on a table in the study while he was still alive. As he started to dismember the body, Tubaigy put on earphones and listened to music. He advised other members of the squad to do the same.”

A New York Times report is here. His body has not been found. One Turkish columnist thinks it may have been vaporized. He also writes that "some of the killers are personal guards of Prince Salman."

Apparently, the Prince had an "army of assassins", including contractors hired from a U.S. firm (former U.S. military). [More...]

The Turkish writer thinks there is a good chance Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz will clear his son but replace him as Crown Prince, and that Turkey will be satisfied with this.

Although some of the killers are personal guards of Prince Salman, the King will clear his son of this murder. No matter what he has done, he is his son. But the King will remove him from his position as crown prince. I am guessing he is right now discussing who should be replacing Salman with the U.S. Secretary of State, who hastily flew to Riyadh.

I assume that, diplomatically, Turkey won’t reject such a scenario. As a state, the most it wants is to arrest the killers, punish them and for an official apology to be made.

Meanwhile, Turkish investigators are busy searching the Istanbul residence of the Saudi counsel, Mohammed al-Otaibi, who has returned to Riyadh.

News reports indicate all 15 of the Saudis who arrived in Istanbul and were inside the residence while Kashoggi was there have been identified. They are also back in Riyadh. The New York Times identified several of the individuals who frequently travel with the Prince.

Buzzfeed has this in-depth report on the American contracting company and former military hired as killers. Meanwhile, the AP reports the Turkish investigators found freshly painted walls during their search of the consulate.

One concern is that Trump emissary Mike Pompeo will help Saudi Arabia absolve the Saudi government and its officials of involvement, letting the blame fall on an underling who lost control of the situation: an interrogation gone wild.

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Tape Sufaces of Torture of Journalist Kashoggi Inside Embassy | 29 comments (29 topical)

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The Saudis will have (5.00 / 2) (#1)
by KeysDan on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 02:55:33 PM EST

to float some new lies to see if any new ones might work. We have gone through several, including an interrogation gone wrong. It appears that it is the assassination of a dissenter---a relatively mild dissenter, but seems too much for the thin skinned--a common trait of dictators.

The curious part is the where and how of the assassination. Prince MBS, if he was just looking to rid himself of this troublesome WaPo journalist, could have deployed a mysterious fall from a hotel balcony or some strategically served polonium-laced tea.

But, this gruesome murder was akin to the theater of horror in the middle ages--a public quartering to shock spectators and to re-affirm authority. Public, in that the bold and brazen killing and the leaks by the Turks of such macabre retribution sends a chilling message to all who disagree with their government. And, know dissenters, there is no safe harbor.

If Prince MSB was, in fact, the mastermind, he, in my view, would not do so without his understanding that Trump (and the "hidden genius" Kushner) has his back--and, his front.

And, why was Pompeo, US Secretary of State (and former CIA Director) dispatched to Riyadh? It would seem that the Saudis would have made a beeline to DC to explain and apologize for any misadventure, that resulted in the killing of an American resident employed in the USA, holding a green card. Trump could at least, withdraw the US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, if we had one.

Only (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by FlJoe on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 10:00:21 AM EST

the biggest and best lies of course

The Trump administration and the Saudi royal family are searching for a mutually agreeable explanation for the death of journalist Jamal Khashoggi

Why was Pompeo....... (none / 0) (#2)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 06:53:20 PM EST

Saudi Arabia transfers $100 million to U.S. amid crisis over Khashoggi

: I would have asked (none / 0) (#3)
by CaptHowdy on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 06:54:17 PM EST

For more

: Subtleties (none / 0) (#4)
by KeysDan on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 09:03:45 PM EST

are not their strong suit. Hacks...political and worse.

The Saudis are already busy (none / 0) (#17)
by smott on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 03:30:09 PM EST

Killing off their hit squad.
One guy already smoked in a "suspicious car accident".


Trump will do nothing. Expect another.. (none / 0) (#5)
by desertswine on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 09:59:57 PM EST

snow job.

Khashoggi had been banned from (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 01:57:29 PM EST

Saudi Arabia for being critical of the Trump administration. I won't be surprised if the Trump administration was fully aware of what was going down. We already know intel agencies collected intercepts and knew he was in danger.

I will not be surprised to find out both Trump and the Saudis wanted him dead. He was well connected, who knew what he knew about the Trumps and royal family connections?


They weren't just aware (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by smott on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 03:25:35 PM EST

They green lighted it I bet.
Kush gave MBS a classified list of enemies to the crown. MBS wanted to wax a few of them obviously. Not on US soil of course.

Anybody still wondering why Haley got out of the WH like her ass was on fire?

And MT - would like your take on Mattis. What could he have known and when? How could he stand for this if he did indeed know? Would he try to take Trump down?


: Mattis probably did not know (none / 0) (#21)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 06:38:26 PM EST

Until you and I did. He probably knew details days before you and I did though once it was done. The NSC should have had access to the raw intelligence, but Mattis' focus is DOD and that is a huge job.
Why doesn't he quit over it? Because Mattis and his deputies have found legal ways to prevent Trump from using our military for purely political war mongering.
But I believe Trump wants shed of Mattis as soon as possible. Mattis has found legal ways to protect troops from the transgender ban by simply using legal parameters that the Obama administration made a norm. Obama could be annoying but that dude and his people were about the process, unless you were a whistle blower. But heck, he pardoned Manning. One of the better things he ever did.
I believe Mattis isn't long for the job after midterms if Republicans keep the Senate though.
It was cute when Trump called Mattis a Democrat. Made me snort. Mattis is a very well read and educated Conservative. Just because he understands the importance of a free press to democracy and the importance of troop cohesion and intel troops that can't be blackmailed for the garters they wear during off hours...Trumpers think that's a Democrat.
I don't think Mattis would try to take Trump down. That is also its own threat to democracy. He will do everything he can for the country to survive Trump and see him in the rearview. When Trump is no longer a sitting President though I can't predict what Mattis will one day share with everyone. Most US retired military officers do everything they can to keep their opinions about politicians to themselves. But we have seen that go by the wayside for the most principled when they believe their silence places the nation in danger.

Well, the Saudis (none / 0) (#6)
by KeysDan on Wed Oct 17, 2018 at 10:53:38 PM EST

are investigating. And, too, vehement denials prove innocence.


Violence (none / 0) (#25)
by FlJoe on Fri Oct 19, 2018 at 05:52:57 AM EST

against journalists is a good thing in tRumps view

President Donald Trump praised Montana Republican Rep. Greg Gianforte for assaulting a reporter during his campaign last May, saying "any guy who can do a body slam ... he's my guy" and made a gesture mimicking a body slam.
At a Montana rally Thursday night, Trump admitted, "I shouldn't say this," but continued and said, "there's nothing to be embarrassed about."

He proudly says the quiet part loud.

: I forgot (none / 0) (#30)
by jondee on Fri Oct 19, 2018 at 03:59:55 PM EST

Gianforte is the dinosaurs-on-Noah's Ark guy. Aye yi yi.
Must have been a hell of a big ark.

Too many questions with no answers (none / 0) (#7)
by ragebot on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 09:37:31 AM EST

One seldom addressed question is the source of the tape. There is good reason to suspect the Turks bugged the SA consulate (remember the way the Turks put a submarine periscope in the Russian embassy in the Bond movie "From Russia With Love"). However the Jamal affair plays out every country with a diplomat in Turkey must be looking over their shoulder today.

Jamal's work history also has some interesting stops. He was a Press Secretary to the head of SA Intelligence before he was a journalist. Given the wide spread demand to see tax returns I have to wonder why a nephew of one of the richest men in SA has a part time day job with WaPo and just how much he was paid by them.

We have seen lots of discussion about holding historical figures to todays standards. I would point out the same goes for different cultures. Back when Saddam was our friend one of his jet fighter pilots fired a rocket at a US destroyer in the area. Saddam said he was sorry and Clinton sent Albright to Iraq to discuss the matter. Saddam welcomed her and after saying again he was sorry he presented her with a boxed gift. On opening the box she saw a human head which Saddam said was the head of the pilot of the jet fighter. I have no idea why beheading seems to be in such favor in the ME; but I do recognize that one should never be shocked when learning of it.

The biggest question I have is why the KSA hit team seems to have been so ham handed. As others have posted if the goal was to simply kill Jamal there were much simpler ways to do it. I suspect there was some effort to question Jamal before he was killed. Given the Game of Thrones like structure of the KSA rulers this is what I would guess the questions were about.

It becoming pretty clear (none / 0) (#9)
by CaptHowdy on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 10:19:39 AM EST

What happened. To me the mysterious part is why it was done the way it was done. Which, it seems to me, was how to do it and get caught red handed.

I'm pretty sure they have done this sort of thing before without it reaching the evening news.

So it was almost a hope there was some other weird story that would make this make some sense.

Because if there is no other story that leaves one possibility as I see it. They wanted it on the news. They did it. In broad daylight with cameras running. They will do it again if you become inconvenient

That really seems like the most terrible kind of Occams Razor.


When the going gets weird (5.00 / 1) (#10)
by ragebot on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 11:19:45 AM EST

the weird get going.

One of the suspected hit men dies in traffic accident.


Saudi Arabia and Russia (none / 0) (#13)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 02:00:34 PM EST

Sure have more than their fair share of suspicious deaths lately.


I'd actually be prepared to see this (none / 0) (#16)
by smott on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 03:28:13 PM EST

As a power playboy MBS vs Trump.
So obvious and blatant.
And now Trump has to bend the knee and protect KSA. Pompeo is obediently embarrassing himself and our country.

Could be seen as a way to make Trump show fealty to MBS.
Just spit ballin!....


: Pompeo has always been looney (5.00 / 1) (#22)
by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 06:39:32 PM EST

Benghazi

Indeed (none / 0) (#26)
by FlJoe on Fri Oct 19, 2018 at 06:13:21 AM EST

the audacity is baffling.

I truly believe that tRump envies Putin, Kim and Duterte for their ability to freely kill their opponents, he respects and even loves these guys.

Could this horrendous act be just an audition of sorts? It makes as much sense as anything, MBS could just be proving his brutal dictator bona fides, which appears to be a good thing according to the tRump doctrine.


Turkey (none / 0) (#11)
by thomas rogan on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 11:31:38 AM EST

Turkish intelligence is quite good (works closely with Mossad) and almost certainly bugged the Saudi consulate, explaining how they got the films and audio.
Which means they knew IN ADVANCE that people in the consulate planned to give the native Turk workers the day off and have the hit squad come in to interrogate/kill Khashoggi.
And which means that they chose to NOT tip him off to stay away and not get killed.
I guess they preferred to set up a wedge issue between the Saudis and the US instead of saving this guy's life.

There is (5.00 / 4) (#14)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 02:39:24 PM EST

no wedge issue between the Trump administration and the Sauds on this issue. Trump and the Sauds are on the same side. The only people upset about this atrocity are liberals and moderates. Conservatives are all in with chopping people up it seems.


Trump has exposed (none / 0) (#18)
by MKS on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 05:23:27 PM EST

conservatives as bereft of all morals and principles.

It is all about expediency. And they used to decry "situational ethics."


We don't have a conservative or a Republican party (none / 0) (#19)
by smott on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 05:29:55 PM EST

We have an organized criminal mob operation, pretending to be a political party.

That's all it is kids. The mob, basically the Russian Mafia as far as concerns Trump, OWNS him, and owns one of the only two political parties in our nation.
OWNS it. Controls it. They do the mob's bidding, and have been for awhile.

The mob owns the Legislative Branch, the Executive Branch, and for all intents and purposes, the Judicial too. Thanks, Flake, Collins, et al.

I don't see how we get out of this and keep the country together.


: We will (none / 0) (#24)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 08:18:22 PM EST

get out of it and we will survive but it is going to take a long time.
Kavanaugh can be removed considering it is probably going to be pretty easy to prove he lied under oath 20 or 30 times. Clarence Thomas can probably be removed too but starting an investigation would probably make him resign. We could pack the court to make Roberts job a literal nightmare. Making all these Republican traitors lose elections would be a start.

You know (none / 0) (#23)
by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 18, 2018 at 08:14:05 PM EST

they've always been that way. It's just now nobody can deny what they are.


The resolution to (none / 0) (#27)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 19, 2018 at 02:37:42 PM EST

the Saudi international crisis may end up with the King giving his favorite son, Crown Prince MBS, the boot. It seems necessary, at this point, to save the House of Saud and all the Royal's hides. The King has plenty other princelings in the running, including some of those captives in the Ritz Carlton. MBS may be lucky if he keeps his head.

A big clue is that Trump is distancing himself from MBS--saying that he "barely knows" him. Not a good signal. MBS should head off to his $300,000 chateau in the south of France, or set sail on his $500,000 yacht.

$300,000,000 and $500,000,000. (none / 0) (#28)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Oct 19, 2018 at 03:09:37 PM EST

You missed some zeros...


: Oops, (none / 0) (#29)
by KeysDan on Fri Oct 19, 2018 at 03:56:38 PM EST

thanks. With or without the correct number of zeros, just chump change for MBS.