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Trump, Giuliani and 17 Others Indicted in Georgia

By Jeralyn, Section Trump Administration
Posted on Mon Aug 14, 2023 at 11:04:11 PM EST
Tags: Trump, Indictments (all tags)
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Trump indicted again???
Yes, this time in state court in Georgia. The Indictment is here.

Trump is charged in 13 counts, including a state RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) count and conspiracy to commit first degree forgery.

Giuliani also has 13 counts, but they are not all the same as the charges against Trump.

Also indicted: Lawyers Sidney Powell (7 counts), Jenna Ellis (2 counts) and Trump-ites Mark Meadows (9 counts) and John Eastman (2 counts).

Not indicted: Donald Trump, Jr.

My first reaction: Never have I ever had a client charged in four separate indictments in four jurisdictions simultaneously. For any criminal defense lawyers reading this, raise your hand if any of your clients ever faced four indictments in separate jurisdictions at the same time ("Raise your hand" means tell us in the comments section).

< Wednesday Open Thread | $200k Bail for Donald Trump in GA, Will Surrender Thursday >

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    Trump, Giuliani and 17 Others Indicted in Georgia | 118 comments (118 topical)

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    Another Georgia Abomination (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 11:47:53 AM EST
    Page 9 of the indictment lists the first and last names of the 26 Grand Jurors with 3 crossed out.  I have previously expressed contempt for using Grand Juries and in particular the double tiered system used in Georgia.  However, publishing their names really takes the cake.  Do any other states do that?  I don't recall the names of the first (investigation only) Grand Jury being published.

    I agree. I was shocked to see (none / 0) (#6)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 01:38:50 PM EST
    the names not redacted. (I assume the three names crossed out are of members of the grand jury who were not present for the vote, either because they were absent yesterday or because they could not stay late.) No state or federal indictment I have ever seen (mostly in Pennsylvania) had the names of the grand jurors made public, not even of the foreperson who formally signs the indictment.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:00:59 PM EST
    those three were not present. Also names are always public here in Ga.

    Parent
    Jeralyn's response (none / 0) (#13)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:52:34 PM EST
    posted here by mistake.

    Parent
    In Georgia (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:00:34 PM EST
    that is how it goes. Grand Jury names are public. I hope they have security assigned to them.

    Parent
    The Fulton County (none / 0) (#11)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    Sheriff says he will maintain customary procedures such as mug shots unless told otherwise.

    Parent
    It is questionable (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:39:18 PM EST
    according to local experts that he will actually get a mug shot because it has to be set up with secret service. I really hope he is treated like every other defendant in Fulton County.

    Parent
    Some Harassment Already (none / 0) (#27)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 10:07:36 PM EST
    Link Are the names of trial jurors also public in Georgia?

    Parent
    TBH (none / 0) (#37)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:16:18 PM EST
    I am not really sure about jurors on a trial. I tried googling but couldn't find anything specific about georgia and jurors.

    Parent
    The day before SUPER TUESDAY (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 06:10:35 PM EST

    DA seeks March 4 trial date for Trump Georgia election case

    It's 2020 all over (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 02:25:38 PM EST
    again here in GA. Threats to people. Fulton County Sherriff on high alert. I am glad those brave grand jurors didn't let fear rule their decisions about Trump.

    We have a state senator now talking about impeaching Fani. I figured that was coming but I thought they would wait to use the new law about removing prosecutors.

    Georgians have got to get their heads out of the sand and make the GOP pay for all this but with gerrymandering I am not very hopeful.

    If I had to pick a red state for this (none / 0) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 02:46:08 PM EST
    It would be GA.  The establishment has broken with Trump.  Before the election and they still won.  
    More than any red state I can think of Trump is likely to get justice in GA.

    I would say again especially if something happens to one of those jurors

    Parent

    The establishment (none / 0) (#64)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 03:08:13 PM EST
    hasn't actually broken with Trump. Kemp says he will vote for Trump if he is the GOP nominee and Raffensperger too. While those 2 are not all in on the election conspiracy theories the rest of the party is. The best you can say is some of the establishment has broken with Trump but nobody has condemned him after the round of indictments here in GA. At best you get is silence. The current Lt. Gov. is now getting a special prosecutor because he successfully moved his case out from under Fani.

    The GOP really should want to get rid of gerrymandering if they were interested in 1. getting the state back on track and 2. ridding their party of the clown show. But they will tolerate clowns like MTG because they are power hungry.

    Parent

    Sadly gerrymandering is a problem (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 03:20:05 PM EST
    all over.

    When Trump announced a press conference for his proof the GA election was stolen Kemp very visibly and clearly tweeted it was a lie.  The election was not stolen.

    He did not have to do that.  He would not have lost one voter if he did not do that.  The establishment is not going to help him.  Unlike almost every place else.

    Also, the next election will literally hinge on GA.  No republican can win the white house without GA.  And because of this whole thing every voter in GA is going to live with this every day until election.

    Parent

    It is not in anyone's interest to promote the big (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 03:27:17 PM EST
    Especially the the people running the election who were elected.

    Kemp

    "The 2020 election in Georgia was not stolen. For nearly three years now, anyone with evidence of fraud has failed to come forward - under oath - and prove anything in a court of law," Kemp wrote in his tweet. "Our elections in Georgia are secure, accessible, and fair and will continue to be as long as I am governor.2



    Parent
    Until (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 03:42:21 PM EST
    Kemp says I will not vote for Donald Trump if he's the GOP nominee it's all just words.

    Kemp does not want to go to jail or get involved with Trump's conspiracies. DeSantis now says the election was not stolen after saying nothing. Should we give him a pass also?

    Kemp will probably help Trump but it will be on the down low. He will endorse Trump if he's the GOP nominee. So will all the other Republicans here in GA. Kemp has already said he will vote for Trump after all this.

    Kemp has to defend the voting here in GA because if he doesn't he undercuts his own wins.

    Parent

    the same can be said (none / 0) (#71)
    by jmacWA on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 05:30:18 AM EST
    for the ENTIRE REPUBLICAN party, until they refuse to vote for Trump they are still enabling him.

    Parent
    After reading up on Jenna Ellis (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by Chuck0 on Wed Aug 23, 2023 at 01:52:32 PM EST
    and seeing her comments on the Club Q victims, I certainly hope she is found guilty and serves a long sentence.

    What a piece of work (work was my second choice describing her).

    She (none / 0) (#102)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Aug 25, 2023 at 10:50:45 AM EST
    was radicalized through home schooling. A friend of mine who lives in Arkansas (not Howdy) told me to watch this documentary about the Duggars. I wish I could remember the name of it. You can probably google and find it. However it talked about this whole homeschool radicalization called the "Joshua Generation" that was supposed to run for office and turn the country into a theocracy. Madison Cawthorn was the 1st and maybe only Joshua Generation elected to office.

    Parent
    How'd that work out for him? (none / 0) (#103)
    by Chuck0 on Fri Aug 25, 2023 at 08:41:36 PM EST
    Asking for a friend.

    Parent
    Complete list: (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 05:55:52 AM EST
    Donald Trump, former US president
    Rudy Giuliani, Trump lawyer
    Mark Meadows, White House chief of staff
    John Eastman, Trump lawyer
    Kenneth Chesebro, pro-Trump lawyer
    Jeffrey Clark, top Justice Department official
    Jenna Ellis, Trump campaign lawyer
    Robert Cheeley, lawyer who promoted fraud claims
    Mike Roman, Trump campaign official
    David Shafer, Georgia GOP chair and fake elector
    Shawn Still, fake GOP elector
    Stephen Lee, pastor tied to intimidation of election workers
    Harrison Floyd, leader of Black Voices for Trump
    Trevian Kutti, publicist tied to intimidation of election workers
    Sidney Powell, Trump campaign lawyer
    Cathy Latham, fake GOP elector tied to Coffee County breach
    Scott Hall, tied to Coffee County election system breach
    Misty Hampton, Coffee County elections supervisor
    Ray Smith, Trump campaign attorney

    All I have to say (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:06:23 AM EST
    is I'm sooo glad that the head of the state GOP David Shafer got indicted. He was one of the ones spewing tons of garbage after 11/2020. Shawn Still is a state senator and he is supposed to resign immediately after being charged. We shall see if the GOP upholds that new law here. A lot of fake electors must have either done a plea deal and turned state's witness since there is only 1 indicted.

    Stephen Lee is an evangelical megachurch pastor.

    Trevian Kutti is the one I believe who was on film harrassing Shea & Ms. Rudy.

    Ray Smith a local attorney must have been operating under the radar because this is the first time I have heard his name in the local news.

    Parent

    It is disconcerting (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:17:13 PM EST
    that so many lawyers were involved in the "criminal enterprise" as presented in the Fulton County indictment. Perhaps, craven careerism with a sense of not only acting with impunity, but also, with potential for rewards.

    The 2020 attempt to unlawfully seize the presidency was a "derivative on steroids" of the 2000 Bush v Gore presidential election when Republicans hatched the "Stop the Count", a conspiracy that included legal and political hijinks, such as the Brooks Brothers Riot, with familiar operatives such as Roger Stone and Matt Schlapp. And, of course, the Supreme Court decision, with Republican appointed justices handing the election to Bush.

    There were the Republican lawyers, John Roberts, Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, who spent time in Florida working the Bush v Gore election case and may have become role models of sorts for ambitious, ethically-challenged, legally-flexible attorneys in 2020.

    The indictment clearly focuses on the ringleader of this treasonous circus, he being cited multiple times for his direct and indirect involvement. But, it is also encouraging to see that those who were convinced that they were a part of Trump's show business because they followed and cleaned up the droppings of the big elephant in this parade,  were charged with felonies, or became unindicted conspirators, apparently, for their cooperation.

     Elections are entrusted to local officials and there also needs to be accountability for their enabling chicanery such as election officer intimidation, and voting machine breaches to favor Trump as in Coffee County, GA.


    Parent

    Bush V. Gore (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:37:41 PM EST
    was the beginning of the GOP being outright autocratic. Before that they always did it underhandedly out of sight. I have said many times that we have been living in an autocracy-lite for the last 20 years since the GOP cares nothing for what the public wants. You could even show instances back in the 90's where the GOP totally went against the public.

    There should never be another Federalist Society judge on teh supreme court and being a member should be a disqualifier going forward. It has completely corrupted the courts and none so much as the supreme court.

    J6 didn't happen in a vaccuum. It was going that way for years. Maybe if the Brooks BRother rioters had gone to jail we might be looking at something different these days.

    The GOP is a criminal enterprise.

    Parent

    EXACTLY (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jmacWA on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 05:15:22 AM EST
    Maybe if the Brooks BRother rioters had gone to jail we might be looking at something different these days.

    Each bad act they get away with raises the floor for what they will do next time.  But somehow the Democrats don't see this and still have friends on the other side of the aisle.  AND this was 20 years ago and look where the floor is post Trump.

    Parent

    All (none / 0) (#29)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 05:05:33 AM EST
    that criming and they didn't even get paid!
    Several of the attorneys who spearheaded President Donald Trump's frenzied effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election tried, and failed, to collect payment for the work they did for Trump's political operation, despite the fact that their lawsuits and false claims of election interference helped the Trump campaign and allied committees raise $250 million in the weeks following the November vote.

    Among them was Trump's closest ally, former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani. Trump and Giuliani had a handshake agreement that Giuliani and his team would get paid by the Trump political operation for their post-election work, according to Timothy Parlatore, an attorney for longtime Giuliani ally Bernard Kerik.



    Parent
    Help (none / 0) (#107)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 10:14:11 AM EST
    I can't find the timeline of when a decision on moving Meadows case to federal court is scheduled to occur.

    Parent
    "As soon as possible" (none / 0) (#111)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 11:32:34 AM EST
    U.S. District Judge Steve C. Jones said the case will probably set precedent and that he will issue a decision "as soon as possible."

    Jones said the state case will proceed -- meaning that, for now, Meadows will have to appear for his scheduled arraignment in Fulton County Superior Court on Sept. 6 along with the other defendant

    Link

    Parent
    The case has already been "removed" (none / 0) (#114)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 02:25:27 PM EST
    to federal court simply by virtue of the filing by Meadows of a "notice of removal." But that removal does not by itself "stay" (put a temporary stop to) the state proceedings, pending a ruling by the federal judge whether to "remand" the case to state court or to allow the removed case to proceed in federal court. If the latter (which depends on whether the judge agrees that the allegations of the state indictment describe conduct that falls within the terms of the federal officer removal statute), then any further proceedings in state court will cease. The judge is not literally deciding whether to "mov[e the] case to federal court," although the effect is essentially the same.

    Parent
    The Rev. Stephen Lee is pastor of ... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 11:45:25 PM EST
    ... Holy Trinity Lutheran Church (Missouri Synod) in Burbank, IL. I'll note that it's my cousin's church. She said a lot of members were not happy with his antics on behalf of Donald Trump in Atlanta.

    For those of you with a memory for past detail, you might recall Atlanta election volunteer Ruby Freeman's harrowing testimony before the House Jan. 6 Select Committee about that time a crazy white man came a-pounding on her door, yelling at her to confess her crime of election fraud.

    That would've been the good Rev. Lee here. He scared the bejesus out of Ms. Freeman so much that she called the police on him. When officers asked what he was doing there, he identified himself (semi-falsely) as a police chaplain and claimed he was there to provide pastoral counseling, to which Ms. Freeman said she already had a pastor.

    Anyway, there's a bit more to the story than that, but he's now been charged for his part in pressuring Ms. Freeman and her daughter to falsely confess to a crime that was never committed.

    If the Lord does indeed work in mysterious ways, then He must have been on the tail end of a three-day bender when He identified Rev. Lee as the instrument of His will in this particular instance.

    Heavens to Murgatroyd!

    Parent

    WGN (none / 0) (#36)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:12:25 PM EST
    is reporting it is Living Word Lutheran Church in Orland Park IL.

    Parent
    WGN is kinda sorta wrong but not really. (none / 0) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 08:29:55 PM EST
    Bear with me here. I was intrigued by what you reported, so I checked it out. And according to a representative of Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, who spoke to reporters after word of Rev. Lee's indictment spread, Lee was the pastor at Living Word Lutheran Church in Orland Park until Nov. 2020, whereupon he transferred set up shop at Holy Trinity in nearby Burbank in Jan. 2021.

    Presumably, I'd venture that his down time between congregations perhaps gave Rev. Lee the perfect opportunity to go to Atlanta on Dec. 15, 2020 and pound on Ruby Freeman's door in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

    However, here's where the "kinda sorta but not really" comes in and it gets weird. Stephen Lee retired as pastor of Holy Trinity, effective two weeks ago on August 2, 2023. He then returned to Living Word that same week on an interim basis to serve as its "pastor emeritus" while that congregation waits to hire its new minister.

    It's funny, but as a Roman Catholic I'm used to priests being assigned to parishes by the diocese. But in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, the congregation has the final say on who serves at their pastor, whom they can also fire at will.

    Anyway, the good Rev. Lee won't be preaching anywhere pretty shortly. He has to surrender in Atlanta sometime this week for booking and felony arraignment purposes, and the D.A. is asking for a March 2024 trial date.

    Christianity is so strange sometimes.

    Parent

    Thanks (none / 0) (#59)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 06:03:08 AM EST
    for the info. My cousin is an ELCA pastor and he says the Missouri Synod is whacked. My cousin IMO is kind of whacked because we (the family) think he voted for Trump.

    Parent
    The Missouri Synod (none / 0) (#77)
    by Zorba on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 04:54:48 PM EST
    Lutherans are conservative types of Protestants. Sort of similar to Baptists et al.
    The Evangelical Lutheran Church, despite its name, are a more liturgical church, and they're not all right-wingers (although, of course, a number of them are). I have a friend who is a retired ELCA minister, and she's very, very liberal.


    Parent
    Lutherans are the only (none / 0) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 05:09:42 PM EST
    liberal Christians I am personally aquatinted with.

    Parent
    Around these here parts (up North) (none / 0) (#79)
    by Peter G on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 06:36:17 PM EST
    many of the Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, and Eastern Baptists are pretty liberal, as are at least half of the Catholics. Not to mention most of the Quakers and some of the Mennonites and Moravians.

    Parent
    Don't forget (none / 0) (#81)
    by BGinCA on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 07:15:19 PM EST
    not all Christians are white. African Methodist Episcopals are progressive Christians. Baptists (as opposed to Southern Baptists). Most Unitarian churches- in my experience- are racially integrated.
    Sad that right wing nationalists have co-opted the brand name `Christian'.

    Parent
    Pretty (none / 0) (#85)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 04:56:26 AM EST
    much the same here in Metro Atlanta except there are very few Mennonites and Moravians. What is interesting here and this may apply to a lot of areas in the country is no matter what the denomination most are liberal in the city. As you move away from the city, it's less so though Lutherans and Episcopalians tend to be liberal no matter where they are.

    Parent
    Ever Met a Unitarian? (none / 0) (#82)
    by RickyJim on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 07:38:46 PM EST
    Or maybe you regard them, as a Baptist preacher once described them to me, as scared atheists and not really Christians.

    Parent
    I could not be less concerned (none / 0) (#83)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 08:15:53 PM EST
    with any named denomination.  I made a statement.   It's the truth.  And trust me when I tell you I know a lot of Christians.

    Parent
    not questioning your statement (none / 0) (#84)
    by Peter G on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 09:31:09 PM EST
    I'm sure that's been your experience. I was telling you mine, in the blessed bubble where I happen to live.

    Parent
    There's nothing written in stone (none / 0) (#87)
    by jondee on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 10:59:01 AM EST
    that says liberals can't throw themselves around and speak in tongues once in awhile.

    Speaking from experience, just don't do it in a Dunkin Donuts.

    Parent

    Yeah, (none / 0) (#86)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 04:59:18 AM EST
    his dad was an ELCA pastor also and he was a Hubert Humphrey fan. We think the son went down the Rush Limbaugh hole and never came back. He won't admit who he voted for in 2016 but we're pretty sure it's Trump. He probably voted for Trump in 2020 too. So now his sister who used to be a devout Lutheran has decided to not go to church because of his jerkishness.

    You know conservatives are the first ones to whine about the decline of Christianity in the US but never look in the mirror.

    Parent

    A regular Trumpian rogues gallery (none / 0) (#41)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:28:51 PM EST
    To talk about just one, Ghouliani, back in the eighties, made a big name for himself pursuing RICO cases against organized crime families in NY. Oh the irony.

    Jenna Ellis is another fascinating case, when one reflects back on some of the remarks she made about Trump in the time before she went to work for him. You'd think she was talking about Ted Bundy or a person in Hitler's inner circle.

    Parent

    Rudy's (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 03:54:41 PM EST
    prior love of RICO has been pointed out numerous times by the talking heads. LOL.

    Parent
    I still find myself asking (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:33:33 PM EST
    in the words of William Shakespeare, what the effin' eff were these people thinking?

    Isn't the ability to think critically somewhat integral to being able to make it through law school?

    Parent

    I believe it's 17 others ? (none / 0) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 07:35:22 AM EST

    Donald Trump and 18 allies were indicted in Georgia on Monday, accused of scheming to illegally overturn his 2020 election loss in the state. It's the fourth criminal case to be brought against the former president and the second this month to allege that he tried to subvert the results of the vote.23 mins ago
    Complete exoneration is coming (none / 0) (#4)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 08:16:09 AM EST

    Donald Trump is now promising a "Large, Complex, Detailed but Irrefutable REPORT on the Presidential Election Fraud which took place in Georgia" which he claimed "is almost complete & will be presented by me at a major News Conference at 11:00 A.M. on Monday of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey."

    He predicts: "There will be a complete EXONERATION!"
    Maybe, (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:39:38 PM EST
    Trump will append his infrastructure plan and his replacement for Obamacare---the one where he was going to replace it with "something terrific".

    Parent
    Please (none / 0) (#12)
    by FlJoe on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 02:48:07 PM EST
    proceed, everything you say can be held against you.

    Can we hope for a Jessup/Queeg moment?

    Parent

    And the cherry on top (none / 0) (#34)
    by john horse on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 11:05:23 AM EST
    The cherry on top would be if Trump presents this "evidence" under oath.  Given that Trump has a free speech right to lie about the election results, I'm sure that he would insist on testifying under oath.  

    Parent
    The Exoneration REPORT (none / 0) (#70)
    by KeysDan on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 09:07:04 PM EST
    is not going to happen, after all.  

    Parent
    Fulton County Superior Court (none / 0) (#14)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 03:22:21 PM EST
    Judge Scott McAfee has been assigned to the Trump et al. RICO case.  McAfee was appointed by Governor Kemp in January 2023 to fill a retirement  vacancy.  He assumed responsibilities in January 2023 and will be up for election in 2024.

    McAfee was previously appointed Inspector General by Kemp and served as as an Assistant Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia.  He is a graduate of Emory University and University of Georgia Law. A native Georgian, he and his family live in Atlanta.

    Judge McAfee seems a little green for this complex, high profile case. Trump will probably try to have the case moved to fedsral court from Fulton County, and, if successful, will make any such concerns moot.

    McAfee's (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:42:43 PM EST
    lack of experience is a concern here. He was in the Fulton County DA's office with Fani but no one is sure if they ever worked together.

    If he screws this up he is not gonna be a judge for long.

    Everybody says Trump is going to try to move the case to federal courts and everybody seems to think that it will also fail.

    Parent

    McAfee's (none / 0) (#23)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:42:58 PM EST
    lack of experience is a concern here. He was in the Fulton County DA's office with Fani but no one is sure if they ever worked together.

    If he screws this up he is not gonna be a judge for long.

    Everybody says Trump is going to try to move the case to federal courts and everybody seems to think that it will also fail.

    Parent

    Meadows wants the feds (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 04:45:00 PM EST

    Mark Meadows seeks to move Fulton County election case to federal court

    Read this in another place

    Interestingly enough, Meadows has a stronger argument than Trump for this as Meadows can make the case that he undertook his actions as Chief of Staff.

    Trump's actions, which were overtly political, make it hard to argue that his actions were official actions under the office of the President of the United States vs a candidate running for office.

    So there is a possible outcome that Meadows succeeds in getting his trial move to Federal Court and Trump fails at getting his trial moved and his trial stays in state court.
    Also, (none / 0) (#16)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 05:42:33 PM EST
    the president does not have an official role in the electoral college procedures.   So, it seems unlikely that either the president or the president's chief of staff would prevail.  

    Parent
    Neal Katyal sez (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:34:48 PM EST
    he doesn't think it will work for any of them.

    Parent
    That's how I read it. The statute at issue (none / 0) (#26)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 07:51:58 PM EST
    allows removal of a criminal prosecution from state court to federal court where the defendant is accused of acts done in their official capacity or "under color of" that office (that is, on a claim to be exercising official power, even where the claim is improper). I do not understand any of the actions charged in the indictment against Tr*mp or Meadows (nor Giuliani, Eastman, Powell, etc.) to be actions they purportedly took "as" or "on behalf of" the President, as such, but rather on behalf of the Republican candidate in the election and in aid of his campaign. If so, the removal should be rejected and the case remanded to state court. But if the removal is deemed proper (as it might be for Jeffrey Clark, for example, who was at least pretending to act as an Assistant U.S. Attorney General) then the result, I think, is not a trial in federal court but a dismissal of the case, because the federal court would not have jurisdiction over state criminal charges. In fact, historically I think that was how the law was intended to work. If I remember right, it was part of the Fugitive Slave Act, designed to prevent local anti-slavery prosecutors and jurors from arresting and convicting U.S. Marshals for kidnapping when then went after fugitives from slavery.

    Parent
    I see a connection between this issue (none / 0) (#31)
    by Peter G on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 09:16:33 AM EST
    and the comment just posted by FLJoe, noting that Giuliani and others expected to be paid by the Tr*mp campaign operation for their work trying to change the election result, not to be paid as federal government contractors. IOW, they knew their efforts were not undertaken "under color of [the President's] office." Which precludes any successful tactic of removing the case to federal court.

    Parent
    Good (none / 0) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 10:54:48 AM EST
    point, so this move would only be possible for Meadows, Clarke and Trump?

    Even if they have valid points would the fact that they are charged with conspiring with 27 people who must be tried in state court carry any weight in the decision?

    Parent

    According (none / 0) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 11:05:15 AM EST
    to Lawfare, the only benefit to moving to federal court is the judge and location because state prosecutors still run the prosecution and your crimes are still state crimes.

    Parent
    So (none / 0) (#35)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 11:12:42 AM EST
    still not pardonable by President?

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#38)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:18:20 PM EST
    according to them.

    So there is probably no benefit to Meadows moving his trial logistically except it supports his claim of"just doing his job" which we all know is total nonse. How is attempting to break into where they are counting votes a job descrption for Chief of Staff?

    Parent

    I (none / 0) (#40)
    by FlJoe on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:27:35 PM EST
    think there is some benefit from the expanded jury pool outside of Fulton County.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#24)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:43:52 PM EST
    also if Meadows is cooperating with Jack Smith like some seem to think that might make moving it to federal court more likely too.

    Parent
    The only (none / 0) (#25)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:45:36 PM EST
    problem with this argument is Meadows literally came to GA interfering with the voting. Maybe if he had stayed in DC and just texted and called he might have a better chance.

    Parent
    It a little hard to see (none / 0) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 01:21:56 PM EST
    how any of them sell overturning an election as part of their official duties.

    Parent
    Meadows' notice of removal contends (none / 0) (#46)
    by Peter G on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 01:54:53 PM EST
    that his official duties as chief of staff to the President of the United States included arranging any meeting or phone call, or looking into any question, that the President asked him to. Seems to me that has to be wrong; the immunity should be limited to acts of assisting the President with official duties of that office. There may be some ambiguity around what is personal and what is official, given that the President and the First Family live in official housing, are fed at government expense, etc., and that the President is on duty 24/7/365. But still it seems to me there must be a carve out for purely partisan political activities.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#47)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 02:09:31 PM EST
    It might have seemed official at the time.  Like it might have seemed like a fine idea at the time.

    Parent
    How Serious Are the Charges Against Meadows? (none / 0) (#17)
    by RickyJim on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:01:24 PM EST
    All the mentions of Meadows in the Georgia indictment deal with "overt acts" except for Count 28 which has him part of the Raffensperger call.  I suppose we would have to know exactly what he said in order to determine his culpability.  I find it strange that he was charged in Georgia but is not even an unindicted coconspirator in the federal case.

    Most people have assumed (none / 0) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 15, 2023 at 06:33:29 PM EST
    he is a cooperating witness for Smith

    Parent
    The most (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:21:34 PM EST
    surprising thing about the Georgia indictment is it has conservatives really shook. Him stealing documents or attempting to overturn an election in DC is just fine? The only reason IMO they might be shook is there is no way Trump gets out here in GA. The gov. has no pardon power and you have to serve 5 years of your sentence before you can even petition the parole board. Georgia is really bad defense attorneys will tell you here. People have literally died in the Fulton County jail it is so bad. Maybe this will finally wake some "law and order" conservatives up.

    I did not know (none / 0) (#43)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 12:47:41 PM EST
    you could die from bedbugs

    Parent
    I wish I still did not (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 01:00:36 PM EST
    know that.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#50)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 04:08:13 PM EST
    you can only imagine how bad it was/is. Which is more than enough to turn your stomach.

    Parent
    The Republicans (none / 0) (#48)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 02:09:53 PM EST
    do seem shaken by the Fulton County indictment owing to, as you note, the restrictive pardon system  Also, by the RICO charges which are difficult for them to understand, other than  that they are recognized as being ominous.  

    Moreover, the Trump personalized  victimhood (I am doing this for you as your Lordy and Savior) has been pierced by the 18 other defendants and 20 unindicted co-conspirators---that include unfamiliar names.

    I wonder if the restrictive pardon and parole system of the state was ever envisioned to apply to people like these defendants.  It was set up after Georgia Governor Eurith "Ed" Rivers (1937-1941) was implicated in a cash-for-pardon scheme. Ed's chauffeurs was reported to frequently go to prisons with pardons already signed., a little less sophisticated than Trump's pardons for federal crimes. But then, it was the 1930s.

    Apparently, some Republicans are suggesting, already, that the Georgia legislature change the pardon and parole system. However, that may be a heavy lift.  The pardon system is a part of the State's Constitution.  Amendments require two-thirds approval in each legislative chamber and release for a state-wide vote.

    Parent

    I certainly (none / 0) (#51)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 04:11:35 PM EST
    wouldn't put it past the state GOP to try to figure out a way to get around the current pardon and parole system just like they tried to get around an election but they are going to have to do it in broad daylight but again that has never stopped the GA GOP's criming either.

    More than likely they all just get in a food fight with Kemp. I am not sure this is not going to set off a GOP civil war here. There also will be calls for Kemp to fire Willis.

    Parent

    Hard to see how it turns out otherwise (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 04:31:58 PM EST
    The republicans have moved beyond circular firing squads to Mutually Assured Destruction

    Parent
    Yes, trickery and deceit (none / 0) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 04:46:53 PM EST
    are what Republicans have to offer.  Actually, all they have to offer.

    Parent
    So the chatter is (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 05:06:45 PM EST
    Trump will upstage and blot out the debate next Wed by turning himself in at that time.

    Seriously, consider that.

    The leading republican candidate promotes himself and steals the oxygen by being arrested in his 4th set of felony charges in as many months.  And over at the debate only one of them will even talk about that.

    Maybe Pence will mumble something he can backpedal later but you see my point.

    This is cray cray.

    Personally I still think he won't be able to stay away from a camera but either this is so deeply F'ed

    Parent

    Trump (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 05:59:49 AM EST
    is currently negotiating with Fulton County about turning himself in. Most people seem to think he's trying to avoid the Rice Street Jail. As I understand it there's really no way to avoid Rice Street because it is where the booking takes place for EVERYBODY. The court house doesn't have the equipment. I am sure he wants to get special treatment and have them move the equipment. I am tired of his preferential treatment in every way.

    Parent
    Most of them (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 16, 2023 at 06:44:20 PM EST
    will do a quick "Trump was wrong" or "Trump might have been wrong" and then instantly pivot for the rest of their allotted time to Hunter's laptop and 'the Biden crime family.'

    Christie might go hard after Trump, but he'll be the only one. I hope he does that and then goes after the others for spinelessly soft-pedaling the actions of the Trump crime family.

    Parent

    So the Grand Jurors have been doxxed (none / 0) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 02:16:15 PM EST
    If something happens to one of those people I really think it might change the discussion about jailing Trump if he refuses to STFU

    That is probably (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 02:21:00 PM EST
    about what it is going to take sorry to say.

    We drew a federalist society judge for the case Ugh. He might not even jail Trump for murder.

    Parent

    The (none / 0) (#67)
    by FlJoe on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 03:32:54 PM EST
    right has traded the rule of law for mob rule. Full stop.

    The cultists demand it, the rest of them are cowards and enable it.

    Parent

    Trump (none / 0) (#69)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 17, 2023 at 07:22:45 PM EST
    wants a Jan 2026 trial. LOL. Yeah, I'm sure that will be granted especially after the death threats.

    I would be interested (none / 0) (#72)
    by jmacWA on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 07:40:25 AM EST
    to hear the opinion of some of Talk Left's lawyers on this Lyle Denniston piece.

    I like Lyle Denniston and his work (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Peter G on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 06:47:15 PM EST
    very much. In this instance, I do think Ricky has put this finger on the weakness in Meadows' argument, that is, the undefended assertion that everything the President does while in office (and thus everything the President's chief of staff does to support them) is done either in the performance of the President's duties or "under color of" that office. But the courts have already rejected that assumption by denying, for example, official DoJ civil defense coverage for the E. Jean Carroll defamation case. It seems to me that all of the conduct described in the Georgia indictment was done by Tr*mp in his capacity as the Republican candidate for re-election, not in his capacity as President of the United States. So there are three separate buckets, just off the top:  Presidential, partisan political, and personal. Of those three, only a local indictment challenging conduct undertaken by and on behalf of the President as such can be successfully removed to federal court under this statute.

    Parent
    Here is the Opinion of a non-Lawyer (none / 0) (#76)
    by RickyJim on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 12:22:10 PM EST
    Good article. However, it doesn't explain what arguments Meadows advanced to show he was performing his official duties when he helped Trump's attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 election.  If Trump asked him to go shoot people on 5th Ave, could he make the same argument?  When Neagle shot and killed Terry he was performing his official duty to protect Justice Field who was in California to perform his official duties.

    Parent
    The Widespread Voting Fraud Myth (none / 0) (#73)
    by john horse on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 09:48:52 AM EST
    "Rather than releasing the Report on the Rigged & Stolen Georgia 2020 Presidential Election on Monday, my lawyers would prefer putting this, I believe, Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud & Irregularities in formal Legal Filings as we fight to dismiss this disgraceful Indictment,"
    Donald Trump

    After claiming that he was going to produce evidence this Monday of widespread election fraud, Trump will apparently not be doing so. Isn't it interesting that despite the lack of "Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence", Trump's supporters believe that the election was stolen.  Some of us may not be living in the reality based world.

    Maybe its not so surprising that they believe this, given over 20 years of Republican claims that there is widespread voting fraud.  These invalid claims have been used by the GOP to pass various voter suppression  

    The Widespread Voting Fraud Myth (none / 0) (#74)
    by john horse on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 09:48:52 AM EST
    "Rather than releasing the Report on the Rigged & Stolen Georgia 2020 Presidential Election on Monday, my lawyers would prefer putting this, I believe, Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud & Irregularities in formal Legal Filings as we fight to dismiss this disgraceful Indictment,"
    Donald Trump

    After claiming that he was going to produce evidence this Monday of widespread election fraud, Trump will apparently not be doing so. Isn't it interesting that despite the lack of "Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence", Trump's supporters believe that the election was stolen.  Some of us may not be living in the reality based world.

    Maybe its not so surprising that they believe this, given over 20 years of Republican claims that there is widespread voting fraud.  These invalid claims have been used by the GOP to pass various voter suppression  

    The Widespread Voting Fraud Myth (none / 0) (#75)
    by john horse on Fri Aug 18, 2023 at 10:19:12 AM EST
    "Rather than releasing the Report on the Rigged & Stolen Georgia 2020 Presidential Election on Monday, my lawyers would prefer putting this, I believe, Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence of Election Fraud & Irregularities in formal Legal Filings as we fight to dismiss this disgraceful Indictment,"
    Donald Trump

    After claiming that he was going to produce evidence this Monday of widespread election fraud, Trump will apparently not be doing so. Isn't it interesting that despite the lack of "Irrefutable & Overwhelming evidence", Trump's supporters believe that the election was stolen.  Some of us may not be living in the reality based world.

    Maybe its not so surprising that they believe this, given over 20 years of Republican claims that there was widespread voting fraud.  These invalid claims (for example, see the Brennan Center) have been used by the GOP to pass various laws aimed at suppressing the votes of the opposition party.  

    After years of making this claim, the only widespread voting fraud seems to be Trump's fake elector scheme.

     

    Ha (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 05:07:24 PM EST
    Automatic double posts are pretty common.  

    You seem to have hit a triple.

    Parent

    Listless vessels (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 04:56:49 PM EST
    This guy is a real political genius.

    MAGA world lashes out over DeSantis' `listless vessels' remark

    It's funny because it's true.

    Ron DeMeatball (none / 0) (#90)
    by KeysDan on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 06:55:03 PM EST
    is off pudding. He better stick to his lies, the truth is not marketable for fascists.

    Parent
    Telling someone they are in a cult (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Aug 19, 2023 at 07:57:33 PM EST
    is not always the best idea.  Even if they are.  Especially if they are.

    Parent
    I know (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 20, 2023 at 11:05:25 AM EST
    It's like the first true thing he's said on the campaign trail maybe ever.

    I wonder if this guy has always been like this or if being W's torture enforcer damaged him.

    Parent

    Not Just 4 Indictments (none / 0) (#92)
    by john horse on Sun Aug 20, 2023 at 09:36:36 AM EST
    Never have I ever had a client charged in four separate indictments in four jurisdictions simultaneously.

    Trump has more than the 4 indictments to worry about. Lets not forget that he also has the E. Jean Carroll civil case.  I know that in Arizona and Michigan, the state AGs are going after folks involved in their fake elector schemes.  Just wondering if they could also charge Trump if the Trump campaign was involved?

    Flopping Down Buzzards (none / 0) (#94)
    by john horse on Sun Aug 20, 2023 at 11:22:44 AM EST
    Legally Trump is in a world of hurt.

    They say that sometimes when it rains, it pours.  For Trump it looks like its flopping down buzzards.

    If we thought the Right (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 20, 2023 at 03:41:09 PM EST
    was intoxicated with and overdosing on baroque conspiracy theories before..

    This is going to fodder for the rest of their foreseeable lifetimes.

    I see that walking BS-amplifier Meathead Rogan is already spouting to his minions that Trump and the January 6ers and Kari Lake were right afterall.

    Parent

    Rogan (none / 0) (#96)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Aug 20, 2023 at 03:47:08 PM EST
    is another danger to democracy. However it all boils down to the fact that if people didn't believe what he says we wouldn't have this problem.

    Parent
    Yeah, he's really irresponsible (none / 0) (#97)
    by jondee on Sun Aug 20, 2023 at 04:07:38 PM EST
    and to make matters worse, his biggest audience is young men in their twenties and thirties who haven't completely sorted themselves out yet.

    Giving too much money and too big a platform to a guy who's been kicked in head too many times and smokes "pounds of weed" was never a good idea

    Parent

    $200,000.00 (none / 0) (#98)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 21, 2023 at 04:13:51 PM EST

    Trump's bond set at $200,000 in Fulton County election interference case

    Indiana Supreme Court... (none / 0) (#99)
    by leap2 on Mon Aug 21, 2023 at 04:51:20 PM EST
    "...won't rehear near-total abortion ban ruling...".

    Medical providers across the state had already stopped providing abortion care services altogether. Patients are instead being referred to clinics outside the state.

    And, from a friend who unfortunately lives in the potatoe state, "Several of the regional hospitals run by Parkview Health have already announced they will no longer have labor & delivery departments." Same thing happened in Idaho. So outrageous and unbelievable.

    The god-botherers have to be stopped from inflicting their god-bothering bigoted straitjackets on the most of this stupid country. There is going to be a reckoning.

    The only way to win (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 21, 2023 at 05:41:52 PM EST
    is the ballot box.  Over and over and over.

    Parent
    Reports (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 08:25:43 AM EST
    from inside the federal courtroom where Meadows testified are not good. The people who were there say Meadows did not do a good job on the stand defending his actions here in GA. However the judge still has to rule so no one knows how that is going to go. He has been assigned an Obama appointed judge.

    The only reason I can think of Meadows would want to move his trial is the jury pool because he still will be found guilty on state charges hence no pardon. He would have a federalist society judge here in Fulton County and an Obama judge in the federal courts.

    Supposedly (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 08:49:44 AM EST
    I'm not sure why but supposedly he thinks he can then get it dismissed.

    I don't think he will get it moved .

    After the indictment was filed, Meadows quickly began an attempt to move his case from state to federal court. Over the weekend, his attorneys went a step further and asked the judge weighing that attempted move to dismiss the charges against Meadows entirely.

    link

    Parent

    The federal judge must allow removal (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 10:34:27 AM EST
    of a state case if the indictment describes acts of the defendant, alleged to be criminal under state law, performed in the course of carrying out (or aiding another in carrying out) the lawful duties or responsibilities of their federal office, broadly defined. At that preliminary stage, the issue is about the allegations of the indictment, not necessarily the true facts. If not, such as if the judge concludes that what the indictment describes are acts by a federal official that were done in a personal or purely political capacity, then the judge "remands" the case to state court.  But if removal is allowed under this standard, the defendant may then file a pretrial motion to dismiss the charges on the basis of "Supremacy Clause immunity." On this motion, the defendant bears a burden of proof, as a matter of fact not allegation, by a preponderance of the evidence, that what the defendant actually did was done under color of their federal office (whether or not lawful). If so, the case must be dismissed, because under the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution (Article VI) only a federal prosecutor's office, not a state D.A., can prosecute an abuse of federal power.

    Parent
    Apparently, (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 10:57:19 AM EST
    Meadows testimony is part of his defense strategy, as you describe.  Moreover, he got  a modicum of information from Raffensperge's testimony for future use.  But, his testimony that it was happenstance that he showed up at the Cobb County vote audit since he was in the neighborhood after visiting his kids, may not help his credibility.   A roll of the dice taken by a man in desperate straits, it seems to me.

    Parent
    Seems (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 03:00:04 PM EST
    like a Hail Mary to me too. His kids live in Atlanta and Jonesboro not near Cobb County. So it's okay to try to break down the door of the elections office because you are visiting your kids????

    Parent
    Is there a date (none / 0) (#112)
    by MO Blue on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 11:35:09 AM EST
    Set on when the judge will rule on this?

    Parent
    MSNBC just said (none / 0) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 12:32:32 PM EST
    Meadows was told that if there was no ruling by arraignment time he should just be arraigned.

    That's one week from tomorrow Sept 6

    Parent

    The Hill (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 03:16:21 PM EST

    In a Tuesday order, U.S. District Judge Steve C. Jones asked both Meadows and Fulton County prosecutors for a more substantial legal argument around one particular issue: whether the case should be moved to federal court if Jones agreed that "at least one (but not all) of the overt acts charged occurred under the color of Meadows' office."

    Jones set a deadline for both sides to file briefings by 5 p.m. Thursday.



    Parent
    If I were Fani Willis, and the judge found (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 09:38:46 PM EST
    that just one overt act, or a single act of racketeering, out of dozens charged -- and not even the entirety of any count -- described conduct done under color of federal office, I would voluntarily strike or dismiss that act from the indictment. And then move to remand the case to state court. No doubt about it.

    Parent
    Thank you (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 30, 2023 at 08:30:27 AM EST
    for that answer. I was wondering if that was a possibility.

    Parent
    Mark "Tea Party" Meadows (none / 0) (#106)
    by KeysDan on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 09:58:45 AM EST
    apparently has taken client-lessons from Trump.  Can't believe Meadows lawyers advised him to take the stand.  He seems to think he is the only one who could describe the functions of Chief-of-Staff, and in so doing locked his testimony in for all the other trials. The cross-examination must have been interesting, as well,

    I think Meadows has a tough hill to climb on this one.

    Parent

    Elaborating my response to Cpn Howdy (none / 0) (#109)
    by Peter G on Tue Aug 29, 2023 at 10:39:47 AM EST
    the issue at the hearing on whether to allow removal should only be to clarify the nature and scope of the official duties of the defendant's federal office, or of the office of the official s/he is charged with aiding. It should not concern whether the allegations of the indictment are true, or whether even if true they are subject to some defense, like immunity or advice of counsel, or whatever. So I agree with KeysDan that Meadows was not the best witness to testify yesterday, given his Fifth Amendment exposure. They should have used a sympathetic academic expert on how the Office of the President works, or perhaps a former White House Chief of Staff.

    Parent
    Trump, Giuliani and 17 Others Indicted in Georgia | 118 comments (118 topical)

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