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Ward Churchill on Bill Maher

By Jeralyn, Section Civil Liberties
Posted on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 11:06:58 AM EST
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Crooks and Liars has the video of embattled C.U. Professor Ward Churchill on the Bill Maher show.

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    Ward Churchill on Bill Maher | 59 comments (59 topical)
    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 11:52:56 AM EST
    Watch it.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#2)
    by scarshapedstar on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 12:16:08 PM EST
    I suppose it helps to know that this guy is completely anti-globalization.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 12:42:54 PM EST
    The man is a vile human being. People in the world trade center deserved to die because they worked finance? He is the left-wing equivalent to Matt Hale, and the only reason you hypocrites don't treat him as such is because the target of his bile is white collar whtie Americans. Hate is hate people.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimcee on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 01:44:05 PM EST
    Took F. Dawes' advice and watched it. Boy is that guy brain-dead? Why did Maher have to speak for him, is the professor incapable of doing it for himself? Fourteen minutes and fifty-eight seconds and counting... Bye, bye Ward, don't let the door hit you in the ass.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 01:45:54 PM EST
    MB: Churchill's Little Eichmanns crack was stupid. Happy now? Now, remind me again: Why isn't Novak facing charges of treason for publicly revealing the name of an undercover CIA agent? Talk about vile human beings, man. Talk about hating America. Why isn't Novak in jail? Got some outrage to spare to condemn rightwing traitors, MB? Or do you just like to focus on screwy strawmen that no one ever heard of?

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#6)
    by michael on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 01:52:48 PM EST
    Just to complete Tristero's thought ... Screwy strawmen that no one ever heard of until MB's rightist compatriots started publicizing him?

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#7)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 01:53:18 PM EST
    As I've said before, it doesn't matter so much what he said, as simply the fact that the right has targeted him. Because of that, if we let him be hounded out, we're just encouraging the right to look for more controversial professors to whip up a media storm over. This will be followed by the Left looking for controversial right-wing professors to hound out. And finally, all professors will limit their classes to safe, politically correct lessons bound to not offend a single person.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#8)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 02:20:12 PM EST
    Skaje: I'm a liberal. What does Churchill's politics have to do with me? He's not on my side and he'd be the first to tell you. I feel as much obligation to defend his rights as I do Oliver North's. That's why I'm a card-carrying member of ACLU. I didn't quit when they defended North. If Churchill needs them, I also won't quit. And that, as far as I'm concerned, is the extent of my interest in Ward Churchill. If the future of liberalism depends upon rallying around people of Churchill's caliber, when truly great folks like Stephen Bronner, Anatol Lieven, Mark Danner and Elizabeth Drew hardly ever appear in the national mass media, God help us.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#9)
    by Kitt on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 02:21:26 PM EST
    The tape of WC and Maher was 15 minutes? I watched 'Real Time' last night; it didn't seem that long. 'Someone' has to be protecting Novak; why else isn't he being raked over the coals. He "apologized" on air the other day for misrepresenting what Howard Dean had said. I think he has a despicable nature.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 03:01:43 PM EST
    Posted by MB: "The man is a vile human being. People in the world trade center deserved to die because they worked finance?" I agree that George W Bush is a truly vile human being, a mass-murderer; but do you really believe that financiers deserved to die in the WTC? I don't know anyone, including Ward Churchill, who thinks they deserved to die. But Bush has killed 30 TIMES the number of people who died in the towers. Did they deserve to die? We heard nothing else from the wingers on TL for over a year in the run-up to the illegal invasion of a DISARMED country, and now we are hearing it from $R Congressmen who want to nuke Syria, and from people like Jim, who think Raping Fallujah is WWII and he wears a white hat. So what's up with that, wingers? Got racism?

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 04:11:27 PM EST
    Churchill sounded like a total idiot! Bad move, Ward. Now most of the world that liked you before, sure ain't gonna like you now!! He'll be terminated for fraud and will get a notification of intent this week. Wait and see. Wanna bet?

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 05:55:50 PM EST
    agree or disagree with the guy, let's see any of you go on national t.v. and attempt to defend your most unpopular, controversial opinions. the victim's brother was dead on about the way churchill is making or attempting to make his case. we all use (and waste) stuff, resources, materials every day that directly affect the lives of countless workers overseas. that's the uncomfortable truth. and, of course, we're not evil people. we just don't care enough. we don't have the time. we have our jobs and families and bills to worry about. all legitimate, but don't in any way alter the reality of an entire society based on using and tossing away as much crap as you can. buy, buy, buy, consume, consume, consume. that's america. and we need to make some major changes. we and the planet we'll be healthier for it.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 06:36:39 PM EST
    See what one guy can do with a few words.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 06:42:15 PM EST
    Bill Maher? Not a lot of courage there, WC. That's like Rush Limbaugh interviewing Ollie North. I'd like to see WC have the guts to go on O'Reilly just to watch the sparks fly.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#15)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 11:10:10 PM EST
    True Blue, you have posted over 20 comments today on TalkLeft. Please limit yourself to four a day. Thank you.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#16)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Mar 05, 2005 at 11:34:21 PM EST
    I haven't watched the video. I will. Those opportunistic amongst the right and the pliant Corporatist media have seized upon (or created from scratch) an opening to demonize and incite public ire against "bastions of Liberalism poisoning young minds", aka "Government-run" universities. The problem with accepting any of this is the media's track record of reporting lies/opinion as fact. For all we know, Ward Churchill could be a Republican and/or Conservative. Assuming WC is a raving Liberal and was stupid enough to say what he said, the only argument that remains on his behalf is that Professors have the right to make whatever argument they wish. The statements themselves are ignorant; if the professor wanted to criticize the Corporatism and materialism of our America, he could have easily avoided (1) the flashpoint of any allusion to 9/11 and (2) imparted to his students the difference between ideological intent and apathetic complicity. All in all, a stupid thing for an educated person to say if speaking from an American perspective. Then again, I've been called a Communist in open forum by right wing tenured PhDs before, so I full well believe that PhD's are plenty capable of bad judgement and "non sensical" argument.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 12:08:53 AM EST
    TL: And BAM! The open door to free speech is slammed shut by the cold hand of hypocrisy. Didn't even take a week. After review of the comment policy, I see where I went wrong -- I voiced an opposing view too many times. Apparently you can post an agreeable view all you want, but opposition isn't tolerated. There's an easy way to get around this -- I could log in under different names. But frankly, I've got more integrity and self respect than that. I came here to find out more about the Left in an attempt to broaden my perspective. Guess what I learned? THIS EXPLAINS THE RED STATES. C-YA. Good luck in '08; you'll need it.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 12:10:17 AM EST
    TL: What happened to the post you just sent limiting me to four posts a day? Did you change your mind?

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 12:11:06 AM EST
    Disregard. I'm gone.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#20)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 06:39:54 AM EST
    Agreed, Trueblue, O'Reilly would be just the one to interview the gasbag. I like your comments and would like to see you stick around. Congrats on your status as a 4-poster. We must remember, this is talkLEFT. As Lenin said, the state regulates guns, and ideas are far more dangerous than guns, so why not regulate ideas as well?

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#21)
    by dead dancer on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 07:17:28 AM EST
    Okay, we get it Ace. Just kiss him/her (trueBlue) already. Speaking of hipocracy. You both rant of free speech and slammed doors; I guess this does't apply to WC.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 07:18:43 AM EST
    (trueblue: "What happened to the post you just sent limiting me to four posts a day? Did you change your mind?") {TL: "True Blue, you have posted over 20 comments today on TalkLeft. Please limit yourself to four a day. Thank you."} Talk Left didn't set you or limit you; Talk Left asked you to set the limit. As for this, "I came here to find out more about the Left in an attempt to broaden my perspective. Guess what I learned?" I don't believe that for a second. First - it's always about 'the Left' - 'liberals' - we, whose political ideology isn't similar to yours are considered 'liberal' or 'the Left' and I'm pretty sick of it. Second - broaden your perspective, eh? I think it was more about providing fodder to any fire you could conjure up.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 07:28:50 AM EST
    TS writes - "For all we know, Ward Churchill could be a Republican and/or Conservative." Uh Huh. Sure.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#24)
    by Kitt on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 07:50:42 AM EST
    I watched an interview with WC and Dennis Means on Free Speech TV. (I still think it's about free speech BTW) I wasn't impressed; he's just too dismissive. One thing I think he illustrates very well is the lack of general knowledge education Americans have. He said he thought 'everyone would recognize' that Eichmann although a Nazi was not directly responsible for killings. He was a cog in the machine. It's like talking to someone who doesn't know that Iran is Persia who thinks they have a solution to solving 'the region's problems.'

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 08:18:16 AM EST
    TS The propoganda that comes out of your mouth is hilarious. Liberals don't support Conservatives. Liberals support Ward Churchill. TrueBlue Stick around. Don't waste posts on fools like Mr. LA. He shoots the Left in the foot everytime he opens his mouth, anyways.

    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 08:53:57 AM EST

    Churchhill BOMBED - which is unfortunate. He had a national stage from which to back up or explain his views, and fell flat on his face. A couple of things I wish he would have reiterated - first and foremost he was not referring to individuals as being the "little Eichmans" - he was referring to our culture and killing machine in general. I highly recommend Howard Zinn's "Peoples History of the United States of America" if you want a better account. If you are not doing something to get the U.S. on a better track, you are one and the same as the machine. Every one of us is responsible for the deaths of the 100,000 (est) innocent Iraqi civilians. This war was a lie from the beginning, and instead of getting off our duffs to do something about it, we chose to catch the latest Oprah and continue our lazy fat Amerikan ways.

    The other thing I wish he would have attacked was the mainstream press. We have been inundated with BS propaganda from the right - including crap from Gov. Bill Owens - that should serve as a MAJOR warning to all of us. Our freedom of Speech is being attacked on all sides. This is not just a matter of Ward Churchill. It is a matter of the big picture. This administration is trying to control the message in a Kremlin style way. Anyone who does not toe the line is either killed (see: UK Guardian: Outrage as US soldiers kill hostage rescue hero) or has their reputation destroyed by the mainstream press.

    Check out this story in today's NY Times. Karl Rove is petrified that he is losing control of the message. The ship has developed a leak, the agenda is slipping, and the "mandate" now resembles a "boydate" (don't tell Jeff Gannon).
    Re: Ward Churchill on Bill Maher (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 06, 2005 at 08:58:43 AM EST
    Kitt writes - "He (Churchill) said he thought 'everyone would recognize' that Eichmann although a Nazi was not directly responsible for killings." That is disingenuous. I would think someone with the high standing in the educational circles of this country, particualrly one who can be described as a member of the Far Left