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Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation

Bump and update: President Bush has signed the legislation, CNN reports at 1:30 a.m, ET. Guess he stayed up late. Have the papers ordering the reinsertion of the feeding tube already reached a federal judge in Florida? Was the case randomly assigned? Will the judge sign the order tonight? Or will Terri's husband's lawyer run to the Florida Supreme Court to have the federal law declared unconsitutional before a federal court gets to rule?

Update: Michael Schiavo on Larry King: The parents are out for Terri's money. He says Terri's father wanted to know "Where's my money?" in the hospital years ago. He also says the parents, with the aid of right wing groups, offered him $700k to walk away 2 years ago. And that Terri was bulimic and would eat like a horse when he was around, but bulimia, he's since learned, is a secretive disease. The parents accused him of trying to strangle her. Why? Because the father wants the money and control. The brother has seen her a handful of times in ten years, he only got interested when the media came around. Schiavo says the brother is lying. His girlfriend has done more for Terri than her own mother. He loves his wife. This is between Terri and himself. [Then why is he going on national tv?] So much dirty laundry on all sides, I really don't want to hear any of it.

Larry King sounded somewhat incredulous at Schiavo's explanation for how Terri, then 25, said to her husband after watching a tv show, I don't want a feeding tube inserted in me. Assuming this is a true statement, I can't help but wonder whether that just a visceral reaction, or a thoguht-out decision.

Schiavo's lawyer says Terri is not brain-dead, she just has no cognitive functioning and she never will.

If it seems like I'm waffling, I'm not. I have always doubted the husband's story. But on a legal level, Congress has no business intervening. Congress could care less about Terri Schiavo. They saw an opportunity to score a goalpoint for their "culture of life" and they ran with it. Shiavo and the Schindler families are being used. The cable news channels, realizing it is the voyeuristic case of the moment, pumps it 24/7. It's like a car accident, repulsive, but no one seems to be changing the channel.

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Original Post

At 9pm this evening, the House will debate the latest Terri Schiavo bill. Fox News, for one, is carrying it live. Bush is flying in from Crawford to sign the bill. He's leaving again tomorrow - to return to his vacation. He sure takes an awful lot of vacations.

Update: Here is the text of the Senate bill (S. 653.)

Update: The House has passed the bill. It now goes to Bush to sign. He usually goes to bed before 10 pm. Will he stay up late tonight to sign it?

CNN reports that the husband terminated the parents' visitation rights this afternoon for a short period. Bad move. Terri's brother and sister are very good spokespersons for her.

Update: CBS legal analyst Andrew Cohen has an excellent analysis of the legal issues, for which you don't need to be a lawyer to follow:

QUESTION: What does all of that mean? Explain it to me like I'm a fifth-grader.

ANSWER: It means that Congress has literally made a "federal case" out of the Schiavo dispute. It means that Schiavo's parents now have a right to assert essentially the same claims they already have asserted in state court in Florida in a new forum-- federal court-- and applying federal constitutional principles instead of state constitutional principles. It means that the federal trial judge who presides over the case must review all of the facts and law from scratch, without deferring to the legal judgments and factual conclusions the Florida courts have reached after many years of litigation-- and 21 separate, written, published rulings in the case. It means that the federal trial judge may order the tube reinserted into Terri Schiavo almost immediately upon getting the case. It means that Congress has interjected itself into a state law dispute, at the end of that dispute, on the side of one litigant over another.

What will happen when it gets to federal court:

Next there would be a race to the federal courthouse. Terri Schiavo's parents would file a lawsuit seeking to exercise the rights that Congress just gave them. And Michael Schiavo, Terri's husband, would go into federal court and ask for a ruling that declares the Congressional effort unconstitutional. It doesn't really matter which side gets to court first, though. The cases, the claims, almost certainly would be consolidated anyway before the same federal judge. And then the judge would hold an initial hearing before determining what to do next.

One more point by Andrew Cohen:

QUESTION: What does that concept do the regular give and take between the court systems, the idea of comity and cooperation between judges?

ANSWER: It destroys it. But that's the whole point of this Congressional action. Not liking a particular result in a case that has been litigated fully and completely by a court with competent jurisdiction, Congress now has said that the game must be re-done with new rules that heavily favor one side over the other. The implications of this move are astonishing. Just think about it. Anytime Congress doesn't like the result in a particular case, it could swoop in and call a "do-over," which is essentially what this legislation represents. And this from a Congress that has for a decade or so tried to keep all sorts of citizens-- including disabled employees-- out of federal court. If this law is declared valid, no decision in any state court in the country will be immune from Congressional second-guessing. It would throw out of whack the entire concept of separation of powers. The constitutional law expert Tribe calls it "trial by legislation" and he is right.

As to the lesson in the Schiavo case, Cohen comes to the same conclusion I did here: Get a living will so your desires are known.

Kitt in the comments points out you can get one online for $15 . (No endorsement is intended.)

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  • Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 05:44:13 PM EST
    The only honorable thing for any honest Congresscritter of either party to do is to refuse to participate any further in this obscene circus.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#2)
    by Kitt on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 05:45:22 PM EST
    What about C-SPAN?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 05:48:04 PM EST
    I dont get it, do conservatives want smaller government or bigger government? Do they want the feds to respect state rights or not? Why is this case being treated as a federal case? It seems that "conservatives" only want small government when they think it will trample on decisions at the state level that are favorable to thier causes and want big government if they think they can over ride the state on thier behalf. Pres. Bush needs to stay in Texas and not make this a federal issue. This is between Mr Shiavo, Mr and Mrs Shindler, and the State of Florida.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#4)
    by Kitt on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 05:48:54 PM EST
    Sorry....here, I answered my own question. Via CSPAN's website: "The House and Senate returned this afternoon to discuss the Schiavo case. The Senate passed a bill and will reconvene at 9:30AM ET, Monday. Beginning at 9PM ET tonight, the House will hold 3 hours of debate, with a vote scheduled for midnight."

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#5)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 05:50:25 PM EST
    Vacations my arse, I would bet money he starts on a binge and they run him down to "Crudfud" to dry him out. He's been there some fifty times in alitle over four years. I for one don't buy the dry drunk bush, I think he's still going for it.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#6)
    by desertswine on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 06:44:50 PM EST
    "He sure takes an awful lot of vacations." Well it's "hard work" being president. Hard work.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#7)
    by Kitt on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 07:36:36 PM EST
    I've been watching off and on - switching back & forth...one thing I find interesting is the characterization by those Republicans speaking that Terri Schiavo is just 'disabled' and her husband has denied her access to rehabilitative efforts; that she is capable of recovering; that she is not on 'life support' - I can only watch in spurts; they're making me nuts. Here's a site that offers living will/directive for a relatively low fee ($15.00). It's easy to do - fill out and pack it around with ya.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#8)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:10:35 PM EST
    If one congressman had the guts to offer to help defray the costs of Mr. and Mrs. Schiavo's move to Texas, the focus would actually shift to where it really belongs. What do these people really believe, Bush's Texas Law giving the state and doctors and insurance companies the right to withdraw feeding tubes against the wishes of the family, or the soon to be Bush Law giving the state the right to insert feeding tubes against the wishes of the family, and regardless of doctors and insurance companies? Make up your minds you less than honorable collection of excuses for human beings.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#9)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:25:22 PM EST
    I'm still confused as to how Congress can pass a law that applies only to one family. How is that even proper?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#10)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:28:39 PM EST
    Would that these vile people in congress had given as much thought to attacking Iraq, they may have saved numerous lives. Their hero, Reagan, defeated communism without firing a single shot. You would think that approach might have warranted a little discussion--maybe as much as the current "life saving" they are debating tonight. Oh, I forgot, that would have taken integrity.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#12)
    by Beck on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:33:17 PM EST
    He's flying in to sign it? Can't they just fax it to Crawford for his signature?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#13)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:43:50 PM EST
    Beck, where's the political grandstanding in that?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:46:15 PM EST
    et al - As I watched a Demo Congressman from FL condem the Repubs for intervening in a state's "business," and as I read the posts of the Left on this subject, I am totally amazed. They have become champions of "state rights." Who would have thought it? And just as the public rejected those who preached states rights in discrimination, the Demos will suffer for this. I have never seen an organization more determined to destroy itself.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#15)
    by Kitt on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 08:53:57 PM EST
    Susan: I open RealPlayer and open CSPAN thru that on one computer. I'm on another computer - my nephew is over, drawing UFOs at the desk, kind of listening to it as well; he's 9. Interesting - there's much mischaracterization about the condition of Terri Schiavo. Mr. Mel Watt (D)-N.Carolina about how much $$ this is costing the taxpayers; 'how many feeding tubes have we withdrawn by cutting funds for medical coverage'? Where was the compassion?? The compassion comes out in this one case. Where is the compassion when we point out people dying, starving, we point it out to you and you ignore it. WHOA.....where is your compassion when we need you?'

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#16)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 09:00:02 PM EST
    Terry Schiavo is completely unaware of her surroundings. At times like this I'm glad she is. To be trapped AND cognitive and watch this disgusting display would be the tenth level of hell.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 09:23:33 PM EST
    Che - You have no knowledge of this beyond what you have read. Her parents say she does. Her "husband" has provided almost nothing. Why doesn't he just divorce her and turn her over to her parents? Does he want the money? It sure looks that way. BTW - Haven't you commented in the past, "follow the money" when questions of motive and actions have arisen?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#18)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 09:33:43 PM EST
    PPJ, you too have no knowledge of this beyond what you have read. And apparently you have read some misinformation regarding money. And you seem to be projecting a little about the divorce option.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#19)
    by wishful on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 09:37:15 PM EST
    Looks like it's going back to court. But I don't think there is any confidence in courts now. At least there shouldn't be according to the congress. We don't need to be a nation of laws anyway, when we have such good and wise leaders.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#21)
    by Linkmeister on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:10:10 PM EST
    It strikes me that with this action any living will you sign might be overridden by a suitably motivated Congress. What a display of hypocrisy. The party of "states' rights" taking a case away from the state, the party defending marriage taking the rights of the husband away from him, and the criminally unethical Tom Delay caring so deeply about about a "starving" woman.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:22:29 PM EST
    Kitt--thanks for posting the link. It appears that some are already trying to "capitalize" on this controversy by setting up web sites for commercial gain. I suggest visiting several sites, especially those that are hosted by bonafide legal organizations, such as the ABA, and reading various sites' FAQs and related links for more information. Here is a useful link; states have different forms required and different laws relating to them, so checking one's own state's laws are important to do (states links are there too). It may not be wise to pay commercial site fees before investigating whether it is necessary to do that or the most cost-effective way of doing it in one's own particular state. Some comments made by some members of Congress regarding living wills and end-of-life or "advance directives" suggest that they themselves are not particularly well informed about such directives. Apparently, there are ways to register these documents and to have them updated annually, so that one's wishes are recorded and legally registered and so that such confusions as the Schiavo case has raised do not occur in one's own family.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:37:07 PM EST
    Jim, Her parents say she does. And we are supposed to accept their diagnosis over that of neurologists and neurosurgeons? They are so desparate for a miracle that they will say and do anything to prove some function. IMHO they are being manipulated by the religious right to further solidify the pro life movement's agenda. Anyway, glad to see you give so much credit to the practitioners taking care of her, who have confirmed that she is not cognizant of her surroundings. How much do they pay you to spew this stuff?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 10:45:29 PM EST
    Linkmeister is one hundred percent right. They don't like your living will, for any reason whatsoever? The extremists running the government will void it. The extremists made their position quite clear over and over tonight (and yeah, I watched the whole sick show). Even if the handpicked federal judge who reviews the evidence comes to the conclusion to remove the tube, the extremists will override her/him. The Rubicon recedes into the distance.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#25)
    by Andreas on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 11:42:37 PM EST
    The intervention of Congress and the Bush administration into the case of Terry Schiavo—the Florida woman on life support for the past 15 years—is an act of unmitigated political thuggery, exploiting a family tragedy for the most reactionary political purposes. It is both a moral abomination and a frontal assault on basic democratic rights. The assertion of unbridled government authority over the most intimate and private concerns is an ominous warning of the political direction of the US ruling elite and its political agents. The emergency bill being rammed through Congress has been accompanied by open appeals to religious hysteria and thinly concealed incitement to violence against Michael Schiavo, his lawyer, and the Florida judge who upheld Schiavo’s decision to terminate life support.
    Bush, Congress intervene in Terry Schiavo case: political thuggery in the service of reaction By the Editorial Board, 21 March 2005

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Mar 20, 2005 at 11:57:03 PM EST
    "Culture of life", my ass, with those 100,000 + murdered people in Iraq.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:27:01 AM EST
    Talkleft wrote about Michael Schiavo:
    [Then why is he going on national tv?]
    According to Talkleft he should be silent? This is ridiculous. Michael Schiavo has every right to defend himself against the anti-democratic attack coming from an alliance of the Republican Party, the Democratic Party and fascists.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:43:52 AM EST
    the sad truth of this matter, is no one is a winner. Not Terri. Not her husband, Not her family. It is a painful, saddening event for all, even us taxpayer who I am sure will bear the brunt of some monies spent to keep the congresscritters yacking at the podium late at night.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 01:59:36 AM EST
    I'm 46 years old, married for 22 years. My husband and I discussed this today - we don't have living wills. Each of us said we would want the other to make such a decision should the need arise. I even said that I wanted him and no one else to decide, even if he makes the "wrong" decision. I respect his judgment that much. Because I love him, and trust him to do his best for me, I also forgive him if he later comes to believe he made a mistake. Why should he suffer guilt for a good-faith mistake? I'll be dead, and will know nothing. He agreed and said he trusted me exactly the same. My point is this: after two decades of marriage NO ONE ELSE gets to decide for me, however "right" that someone else might be. Doesn't Mr. Schiavo deserve the respect he has actually earned by continuing to fight for what he truly believes is best for his wife? Who better than him? How despicable are those who have offered him a fortune to abandon his wife - do these people really believe in the sanctity of marriage? Also, his having a partner, and even children with her is just so totally irrelevant to Mrs. Schiavo at this point. Mr. Schiavo's life did not end when Mrs. Shiavo's brain died. The demonizing and moralizing is another pathetic example of the sex-negative society we live in. Sex is good! It often leads to children. If children are wanted and loved, they only brings MORE joy into the world. We could sure use more joy. My family are devout and practicing Catholics (however,I'm quite thoroughly lapsed, and an atheist to boot), but I know my family would not interfere because they believe in the special space that exists between the lucky married people, the oft-reviled-by-the-left "sanctity of marriage". I am on the far left, yet I do believe in the sanctity of marriage. I'm one of the lucky married people. My Catholic relatives and I also think same-sex civil marriages are a civil rights issue that should be controlled by the substantive due process right to liberty, which includes privacy. Any two people wanting to form that special bond should be allowed that choice. Why would, or should, my family's articles of religious faith dictate to anyone else, period? I point this out because there are many Catholics who do not swallow dogma wholesale. Also, no need to tell us to execute living wills. We'll get around to it or not ... it will all be fine. Peace

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#30)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:26:01 AM EST
    What is so hard to understand about this? Terri Schiavo gets the death penalty while murderers get to live. To a liberal it makes alot of sense. Howard 50states/08

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#31)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 03:30:43 AM EST
    mm in SF: As this case proves, you can discuss it all you want, but you need to put it in writing.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#32)
    by DonS on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:56:23 AM EST
    This "culture of life" ruse may wash with the bible thumpers and political zombies; but by my reckoning, the selective use by the right of what constitutes a valid "life" argument gets more specious and hypocritcal by the day. Can, for instance, someone tell me how it is not easily as much "the will of God" to allow "natural" processes (remove feeding tube) to take place where there is a medically etablished "vegetative" state? The wingers have covered themselves with shame on this one. I do believe, however, that the MSM lacks the honesty to expose it.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:07:52 AM EST
    shame on Congress for intervening in this mans private life for political gain. this could be a new low...

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#34)
    by Kitt on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:10:58 AM EST
    I can totally see someone as young as 25 saying something to their spouse along the line of 'don't ever do this or that in prolonging my life', etc. We were 23 when we got married and we had talked about it long before, along with how many kids, why he hated football but loved boxing, etc. As for it being 'a thought out decision' - ?? - how thought out does one have to carry it in order to know that if your quality of life is severely compromised, it's better to go on to G*d. The parents' assertions about keeping Terri alive at any costs, even to the point of amputating limbs, to me at least really demonstrates their motives which I find incredibly selfish. I certainly don't think their daughter's interests is what's important to them. As for Terri's siblings, the only one I've observed is her brother, Bobby, beginning some spiel about domestic abuse and as soon as he began talking, I got the impression he was lying.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#35)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:16:45 AM EST
    The husband is on Larry King to answer the crap being spread by the other side. The media has been very irresponsible in their discussioon of this issue This is like the guy im Virginia

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#36)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:34:18 AM EST
    When can we get rid of these guys in power? Talk about brain-dead and persistent vegetative states.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:35:28 AM EST
    Quoting Bush...
    "In cases like this one, where there are serious questions and substantial doubts, our society, our laws and our courts should have a presumption in favor of life," President Bush said in a statement after signing the bill.
    Tell that to Carla Faye Tucker, scumface. Tell that to Adrian Newton. Tell that to all the brain-damaged, teenaged and INNOCENT lives you didn't feel were worth involvment or worry as Gov. of TX. Now go and COUNT the number of innocent Iraqis imprisoned, tortured, and killed by U.S. forces. Then come back here, you hypocrite trilobite stand in front of the country, look them in the eye and tell us CONGRESS can involve themselves in ANY personal medical decision trumping the rights of family and privacy, trampling the SANCTITY of a married union (what if I want to have an abortion, the father agrees BUT MY PSYCHO-RELIGIOUS PARENTS disagreed and said they wanted to raise the baby. WATCH OUT! Here come Bush and Delay to call me, the dad and the medical staff murderers, force me to have the baby (tie me down and force feed me???) because my parents want it. OH... BUT WE'RE FREE!!!!! Because ANYONE, INCLUDING TERRORISTS can walk into a sports store in Montana and buy all the FIFTY CALIBRE RIFLES we want. WHOOPEEE!!!!! M***F**KERS.......

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:35:38 AM EST
    ps google this issue and you will see endless web sites set up by rightwing loonies to spread factless and feckless information about this case.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#39)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:39:23 AM EST
    Oh... and Howard...
    What is so hard to understand about this? Terri Schiavo gets the death penalty while murderers get to live.
    To a liberal it makes alot of sense.
    Howard, to a compassionate person it makes a lot of sense. You must be one of those folks who are on the "Bill O'Reilly is an accurate and unbiased news source" bandwagon.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#40)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:40:56 AM EST
    Pardon... c'est moi.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:06:00 AM EST
    If you ask yourself, what would happen if Congress did this again and again, and what happens when the next bill of attainder is used to imprison a critic of Bush- you will begin to understand that this is one of the moments when our government is being seized by a coup. Congratulations on being alive at such an historic moment.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#42)
    by pigwiggle on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:09:05 AM EST
    I would like to see congress take a year off. After 200+ years of legislation I doubt they missed anything so important they couldn’t take one year, just a single year.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#43)
    by Jlvngstn on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:11:54 AM EST
    From the courts: At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#45)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:22:26 AM EST
    I feel for Terri Schiavo in all of this. Her spirit is imprisoned and her parents and the rightwing refuse to set it free. Her parents may not be able to face her death, for whatever reasons, but this woman is being stripped of all dignity. Itis horribleto hear her father talk about her responding to him. Why does he want to turn his daughter into a freak show? That being said...if the rightwing does succeed in making this the landmark "culture of life' case I hope every death penalty lawyer in the country is all over this wording. Perhaps the culture of life should extend to repentant criminals, to people who were led to a life of crime due to circumstances beyond their control, to brain damaged offenders who cannot be held reponsible for their actions. Unfortunately, i think the rightwing is very happy to have their politicians play God and decide who fits into the culture of life and who doesn't. ANd herein lies the danger.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#46)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:41:47 AM EST
    TL - Could you elaborate on Why you doubt the husbands motives? I´m not quite following on that one. It´s nice to see all you Christian freepers have taken a stand for Terri telling everybody how things should be, it´s just too sad nobody can ask Terri what she really wants. btw, Which side is doing most of the screaming this time again?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#47)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:45:48 AM EST
    Obviously, Michael Schiavo is a scumbag, and Jeralyn is right to suspect him. After all, he has turned down repeated offers of money - up to $10 million - to turn over decision-making responsibility for Terri's care to her parents. And he waited 8 years after Terri suffered heart failure to ask a court if the court thought her treatment should continue or not. Obviously, he bided his time so he can get $20 million. Very slimy, this Schiavo guy.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#48)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:51:02 AM EST
    In real estate we have something called the "statute of frauds." It says, essentially, that since real property is SO important (ahem), that the courts will only recognize WRITTEN agreements for the sale of land. These "end of life" cases could be made a lot easier if a similar rule applied there.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#49)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:51:29 AM EST
    Posted by Howard at March 21, 2005 04:26 AM What is so hard to understand about this? Terri Schiavo gets the death penalty while murderers get to live. To a liberal it makes alot of sense. Howard 50states/08 What is so hard to understand about this? The Illegally Installed Pinhead gets to grandstand for a bunch of religiously insane idiots, murders a bunch of Americans in an illegitmate war, a Publican congresscritter needs a distraction from his exposed fraud. embezzlement, high crimes and felonies, medical companies get to steal someone else's inheritance, the sheeple are distracted for another day, and the guilty get to live and murder some more the next day. To a Publican it makes a lot of sense. It almost seems like a way of life...

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#50)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:54:44 AM EST
    et al - "The $700,000 or so earmarked for Mrs. Schiavo's medical care for the rest of her life has dwindled to about $350,000, court records show. Most was spent in the past two years on the intense legal fight that made its way to the U.S. Supreme Court and is still not over." The above is from the St Petersburg Times 6/03/01 Why wasn't the money spent solely on medical treatment? What happened to the $300,000? (The difference between the inital $1,000,000 and the $700,000. What is the husbands motivation? Why is he so intent that she dies? He claims that she said, one time, after watching a TV show, that she didn't want a feeding tube. If the claim is true, many people say many things in a moment of emotion that they do not really mean, or want to happen. A money update indicates that only about $50,000. Given that the lawyers say they are not being paid, and since her treatment is being paid for by state medicaid.. What happened to the money? Somebody is funning us. DonS - What do we know? She has not been examined in over two years by specialists. She has been receiving no therapy. BTW - She is not on a ventilator, she is not comatose. et al - I just watched a columnist (on TV) opine that another MRI would do no good. She isn't a Doctor, but she did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. et al - Just what does this hurt? You have a dispute. The husband who has very little crediability, and who has fathered two children out of wedlock, and would receive the remainder of the funds from the settlement, whatever they are, has nothing but his word. Why not let the woman live? Who speaks for her? Obviously not the Left.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#51)
    by charles on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:58:33 AM EST
    A Republican three-fer: deny science AND law AND get publicity for doing it. Charles

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#52)
    by Kitt on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:11:29 AM EST
    "et al - I just watched a columnist (on TV) opine that another MRI would do no good. She isn't a Doctor, but she did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. It would depend upon what one is looking for or trying to determine. Truthfully, certain imaging procedures are better suited for different reasons: CTs, ultrasounds or even plain radiographs show more detail than MRI depending upon the 'quest.'

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#53)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:14:28 AM EST
    I for one don't buy the dry drunk bush, I think he's still going for it. Very perceptive. I've heard him slurring his words on several occaisions. Republi-cons = Control of your personal freedoms and unrestrained business. Democrats = Control of business and unrestrained personal freedoms. I'll have the latter, thank you.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#54)
    by roger on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:20:38 AM EST
    PPJ- This has already been litigated in front of judges who looked at everything, and heard fdrom everybody involved. This has gone to the Supreme Court twice, do you know something that they dont? War in Iraq and Afghanistan. Record budget deficit. Us tortures people. Congress stayed late for this?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#55)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:20:44 AM EST
    I fail to see where Schiavo's motives are any sort of real issue. His girlfriend and children? Look, in the music biz, this was an open secret: As Jackie du Pre deteriorated, Barenboim had at least one if not more mistresses (Jackie had her share of extracurricular lovers, too, when she was well). There are many who find something like this immoral. They are living in Leave It To Beaver Land; the real world of grownups is never that clean cut. And for the record, I find it emphatically moral. That is exactly how I would hope my wife would act if I were seriously diseased. As for the money, does anyone seriously doubt the humongous amount of moolah Schiavo's been offered to just go away? If simoleons was his motive, he had ample opportunity to make a killing with having to endure this kind of horrible circus. Look, he may be a sleazebag. He may not. But these two oft-discussed ad hominem attacks on his character are, from what I can tell, content-free.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#57)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 08:44:25 AM EST
    Would you really deny a man, whose wife is in a persistent vegetative state, the opportunity to have a relationship and children? Perhaps Michael Schiavo is a scumbag but from where I stand the evidence points otherwise. He could have divorced his wife and written a book and made a fortune years ago. Perhaps he is pursuing this to the nth degree because he feels a responsibility to the woman he loved and knew well and wishes to preserve her dignity and honor her wishes. My God, there are easier ways to make money than to go through this hell for 15 years. As for her parents, you hate to badmouth these poor people but they are perhaps guiltridden, delusional...who knows. The most noble thing they could have done is to help their daughter die well. If even one doctor said there was a chance that terri would gain any kind of recognition and have any semblance of a life i would support their cause. As it stands now they are unfortunately being self righteous and selfish. this is a very sad personal family tragedy and it is sick that Congress, Larry King and the rest of us are all involved.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#58)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:02:31 AM EST
    Uninformed elitists like PPJ don't really care to dig for facts. One fact that these twits don't realize is that to qualify for state medicaid you have to be virtually penniless. How in the hell does Mike Schiavo qualify for medicaid if he has 700K lying around? Anyone? Hunter Thompson was right to take his OWN LIFE. Before some vampires could slowly bleed it dry like the prolife movement is doing with this man's wife.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#59)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:04:28 AM EST
    I really think (:Tom:)'s food tube should be removed. He's obviously brain damaged and is a pathetic spectacle.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#60)
    by Jo Fish on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:07:29 AM EST
    Jeralyn, It seems that in Wisconsin even having a living will might make no difference at all: "Legislation currently before the Wisconsin Senate allows doctors, nurses, pharmacists and other medical personnel who morally disagree with the guidelines regarding feeding and hydration tubes to ignore living wills and advance directives. The legislation already has passed the Republican-controlled Assembly and is likely to pass the Republican-controlled Senate." Read about it Welcome to the Christo-Fascist "Culture of Life".

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#61)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:10:19 AM EST
    I'd like to add three points: 1. Moral Arguments Favoring the End of Life Support A thorough discussion of the very strong moral arguments in favor of honoring Terri Schiavo's end-of-life request to her husband has been completely missing in the media. For my take, see: "Schiavo, Mill and the Culture of Living" 2. The 1999 Texas Futile Care Law There has been virtually no coverage of the hypocrisy of the President, Tom Delay and his supporters. In 1999, Governor Bush signed the Texas Futile Care Law, which only last week allowed a Texas hospital to remove lfe support from a terminally ill 6-month old over his mother's objections. For details, see Mark Kleiman's blog: "Schiavo, Hudson and Nikolouzos" 3. Bill Frist, the Hippocratic Oath and "Witness Malpractice" It is sadly ironic that Frist, Mr. Tort Reform himself, would commit the Congressional equivalent of "witness malpractice." Lacking expertise as a neurologist and having never examined the patient, he weighs in all the same. It's exactly the kind of bogus expert testimony in the courtroom that Frist routinely decries. For more details, see: "Bill Frist: Doctor Jekyll and Mr. Hide"

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#62)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:33:24 AM EST
    Is she in an irreversible state of PVS? Only a completely independent medical examination of Terri would settle this once and for all. Period

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#63)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:37:24 AM EST
    IM, That's been done over and over again for 15 years. No differnce to the radical right. they have an agenda to promote, and terry is their new aegis for the battle. Tube in, tube out, tube in, tube out, tube in, tube out. Mike schiavo should have a guard at her door with an M-16.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#64)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:46:37 AM EST
    Why wasn't the money spent solely on medical treatment? What happened to the $300,000? (The difference between the inital $1,000,000 and the $700,000. Uh, Jim...why don't you read your own sources? From the Ledger.com, Jim's second source: The money is held in a trust fund, and a judge approves all expenditures, from lawyers' fees to the woman's haircuts.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#65)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 09:49:01 AM EST
    - 70% of Americans say it is inappropriate for Congress to involve itself in the Schiavo case. - 67% of Americans “think the elected officials trying to keep Schiavo alive are doing so more for political advantage than out of concern for her or for the principles involved.” (Just 19% believe the elected officials are acting out of concern for her or their principles.) - 58% of Republicans, 61% of independents and 63% of Democrats oppose federal government intervention in the case. - 50% of evangelicals oppose federal government intervention in the case, just 44% approve of the intervention. - 63% of Catholics and a plurality of evangelicals believe Schiavo’s feeding tube should be removed

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#66)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:02:04 AM EST
    If you and your wife/husband made a personal promise to each other would you keep it? Would you want your life used in such a way for political gain/games?? I am not a doctor I do not know her exact condition, but if she asked a promise of her husband to let her go and not keep her alive with artificial means what right do we have to use it as a political spectacle?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#67)
    by cp on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:17:05 AM EST
    don't waste valuable time responding to ppj. he never saw an actual fact that he couldn't conveniently ignore, if it suited his purpose. this is time you won't ever recover. TL, you ask why this guy is on tv, and further, you question his motives in all this. for 15 years, he's dealt with his poor wife's tragic situation. he's been accused, by his wife's family, politicians and special interest groups, of being everything short of satan. no reputable court or investigative agency has found any substance to these allegations, none. now, congress, that mecca of morality, weighs in. why the hell shouldn't he defend himself, in public? the surprise is that it's taken so long for him to do so. as to his motives, let me offer one possibility, by virtue of referrence to "ocham's razer". perhaps, the simplest explanation is the correct one: he wants to honor what he deems his wife's wishes in this circumstance. i hope the rank, odious, transparent political opportunism shown by messrs. frist, delay, bush, et al, comes back to haunt them. in fact, and i know this is terrible, it would be true justice if one of them found themselves in ms. schiavio's situation, and their spouse was made to undergo the same excrutiating circumstance that mr. schiavio has dealt with, for the past 7 years. then, i would truly believe there is a god!

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#68)
    by desertswine on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:21:06 AM EST
    Thanks to all the Terri Schiavo smoke, I haven't even noticed that I'm buying gas at $2.15 a gallon. Thanks Prince Bandar (and George).

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#70)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:33:45 AM EST
    What ever happened to our society being judged upon how we treat those least among us? What a joke. Radicals seem to concern themselves with death at the beginning and end of lives but care little about what happens to those that die during the in between stages.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:56:24 AM EST
    Good point d'wine. Similar to gay marriage, abortion, obscenity on tv, etc. Get the masses riled up about the little stuff that we will never agree on.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#72)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:08:35 AM EST
    Hey this bill is only about her not millions of others, Bush did his little show for the people and now will go back and do the people. Bush/Bin Laden/Fox. the show must go on. But thank god the state did not kill her.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#69)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:33:29 AM EST
    duplicate comment deleted

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#73)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 12:07:34 PM EST
    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#74)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 04:48:49 PM EST
    It's like a car accident, repulsive, but no one seems to be changing the channel. Who says the media doesn't decide what the public will discuss? This is just another example. I'll be quite interested to see the Conservative reaction to judicial discretion once they've eliminated the last shreds of plausible deniability over the conservatively biased nature of our State court systems. Give the woman some space. This woman has not been allowed any dignity whatsoever. Her life/death is a circus, thanks to the media's decision to magnify her life while ignoring the (likely) thousands of other people who have their feeding tubes removed after being pronounced brain dead or otherwise infirmed every year. Next on CNN, Terri's death saga, brought to you by Pfizer.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#75)
    by pigwiggle on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 05:09:18 PM EST
    TS- “Who says the media doesn't decide what the public will discuss? This is just another example.” The story is compelling for many reasons; aside from the congressional back flips. Evidenced by a clearly intelligent and independent minded blogger posting bits of the story several times. “I'll be quite interested to see the Conservative reaction to judicial discretion once …” Don’t hold your breath; I’m still waiting for the apology on 1) nation building, 2) liberal fiscal policy, 3) the patriot act, and patriot II; this time they read it? 4) and of course this is part and parcel of your comments; gay marriage is the states business, not wait it’s the feds (thanks Dick, you truly are). What’s your take on the likelihood of all the newfound states rights bluestaters turning this goliath around once the pendulum swings? Right, I wont hold my breath either. I’m sure they’ll make honest use of this new club … My take on Terry’s dignity. As I understand she isn’t much more than a piece of meat today. This really is about her family and friends now. Everyone else who’s concerned has some agenda, myself included. In all likelihood, of those involved, the person least concerned about Terry is Terry. I’ll let my wife and folks do as they wish, duke it out or not. My living will; if the courts or politicians get involved put me down immediately.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#76)
    by chupetin on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 06:22:02 PM EST
    I think it's worth repeating for any wingers out there that may have missed it. By now most people who read liberal blogs are aware that George W. Bush signed a law in Texas that expressly gave hospitals the right to remove life support if the patient could not pay and there was no hope of revival, regardless of the patient's family's wishes. It is called the Texas Futile Care Law. Under this law, a baby was removed from life support against his mother's wishes in Texas just this week. A 68 year old man was given a temporary reprieve by the Texas courts just yesterday.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#77)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:22:59 PM EST
    The motives of the conservatives in congress are beyond transparent. jThey asre running with an issue that they feel will further solidify the religious right, while causing a relatively small backlash among guilt ridden Democrats and some liberals, including the press. It is always very much to their advantage to address this type of controversy rather than to sensibly address the many SERIOUS economic, social and moral problems that are undermining our country and sending us to the path of self destruction. This is more importantj than the war in Iraq or the attempts to privatize Social Security? I don't think so.!!!!!

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#78)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:31:27 PM EST
    PW: I believe that the involvement of congress is mostly motivated by a desire to override judicial ruling for political gain (at the expense of the supposedly liberal activist judges). I believe that a secondary consideration is a PR stunt to satisfy restless social conservatives, but I see no evidence that the Neocons are pursuing a theocratic social agenda. Gay Marriage was an election year stunt to shore up the base. When in doubt, appeal to bigotry. As for respecting the wishes of the medically impaired, I believe in just that. I'm appalled how quickly one's own family can become rabid over liquidating their loved one's assets. Materialism is a cultural problem that knows no bounds.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#79)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:33:30 PM EST
    Chupetin - And the Demos have had 8 plus years to change it. Why haven't they? desertwine - Hey you forgot all the Left Wing Wacko Envirnomentalists who won't let us drill, who won't let us do nucelar.... I'll do it for you! Hey, dummies! Thanks for not understanding that there is a relationshp between supply and demand. Dearest No Name - From my second source: "Bushnell said she has been paid $80,309 since getting involved in the case in 1993. George Felos, who was hired by Michael Schiavo about the time he began the effort to remove his wife's feeding tube in 1998, has been paid $358,434, according to Bushnell. So we know that, with $50K left, almost 50% of the $1M has gone for legal fees. Wonder what $435K worth of rehab and treatment might have done? So, the question remains. What happened to the money? When was it placed under the court's control? And remember, the nursing home is being paid by medicaid. Inquiring minds want to know. cp - From all reports Terry was a devout catholic. Her husband has to know that. Does he really believe she wanted to commit a deadly sin? Do you? TS - Do what? You say, "Give the woman some space." Why. Isn't she incapable of knowing anything? Hey, just throw her in the corner. Having some second thoughts? Starting to listen to those people who say Terry responds? Careful. You may start to want to do the right thing. Decide that if there is an error, it should be on the side of life. Oh so precious life. DW writes - "If you and your wife/husband made a personal promise to each other would you keep it?" Well, her husband made a promise to be faithful. Last time I checked he has two childfren by his full time girl friend. Guess some promises you keep, some you don't. Funny, this man some of you have demanded we respect, didn't show her very much. BTW - She is not on a ventilator, and she is not comatose. What a Load - Could we have some links to prove your claims? Che - No. She hasn't had a medical anything for over two years. And if you read the links, you will see where I got the information. Twit is as twit does. Maybe we should bring in the real Che. He would know what to do. Deanna - You raise an interesting point. Why is he so intent on her death? Why does he fear her possible recovery? Why doesn't he honor the wishes of her parents, and let them shoulder the burden? There is something very strange there. DA - You still have trouble with reading and logic. The first one established what the money deal was in 2001. The SECOND one is from 3/17/05. So the court said he could use the money for lawyers. So what. Why not use it for medical treatment? Why does he want her dead? tristero - Content free? Doesn't his actions speak for themselves? BTW - This isn't the music business, and I hope you don't use rap music as a moral guidepost. et al - No one knows for sure. When you look at the medical profession, you should remember at one time they would bleed people for any number of conditions. They also denied that germs existed, and more recently, refused to admit that pellagra was a diet deficiency of many poor in the south, because that would have condemed the social structure. Instead they stubbrnly called it a germ/virsus caused disease. And we have the more recent case in Kansas where the woman woke up after 20 years. Tell me. If you are so eager for her to die, why don't you demand that she be treated at least as well as we would treat a faithful dog who has no hope. A quiet needle and a painless death instead of a tortured death through starvation. Tell me. Why are you afraid to give life a chance? Perhaps you haven't seen enough death to truly understand its finality. I pray that it is ignorance and not choice.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#80)
    by glanton on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 07:45:10 PM EST
    "The story is compelling for many reasons" Sorry p-wiggle, I've been enamored of your posts lately, but this is just a poor rationalization for the media frenzy surrounding this "case." Soap operas are "compelling," so is professional wrestling, so is the "debate" over homosexuality, so is the Gannon "issue." It's all TABLOID stuff that works in a very Huxleyesque manner--keep us drugged up on these kinds of stories, distract us from the real problems that beset this nation. That they have done this glitzy blitz with Terry's wasted body is downright inhumane. But anything's better than real reporting on real social issues, I guess.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#82)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 10:43:48 PM EST
    Just finished watching a segment on Fox. Some lawyer named Bruce Fein just silenced Cavuto, even though he was furiuosly attempting to regurg the standard right wing spin points. Who is this guy? Get him on all the pundit shows, he was very sharp.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#83)
    by Che's Lounge on Mon Mar 21, 2005 at 11:05:21 PM EST
    Shorter jim, Quiet! I think I hear Jesus coming.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#84)
    by pigwiggle on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 06:22:09 AM EST
    glanton- “but this is just a poor rationalization for the media frenzy surrounding this "case."” Hold the phone; this business has compelled me to change the channel and consider a ‘living will’. I’m enjoying a dozen channels of news on my new XM radio, BBC world, XM-PR, C-SPAN, all the big guys, CNN, FOX, etc. I recommend it. “It's all TABLOID stuff that works in a very Huxleyesque manner--keep us drugged up on these kinds of stories, distract us from the real problems that beset this nation.” It is most certainly compelling for most folks, simply look at the number of post here. Folks watch the news they want and the news outlets are savvy enough to know what to air (how many folks at your job are talking about Dr. Rice’s trip to China?). This is simple family drama; courts and congress included. Is it worthy of using some of our finite brain cycles? It wasn’t, not until congress and the president got involved. Now this is one of the ‘real problems that beset [the] nation’. I think this reflexive appeal to the feds, and the waning respect for the autonomy of the states, is the single greatest threat to individual liberty we face.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#85)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 08:36:48 AM EST
    DA - So, instead of admitting you didn't read the second link, you try and change the subject. Nice try. As to why he wants her dead, we know what he says. The question is, is that the real reasons? You don't know that. It requires that you believe that. Belief and reality are two different things. If you understand the finality of death, then why do you fight against parents who merely want to keep their daughter alive? The husband has no proof, and his actions are questionable, at best. You see, I do not protest the use of living wills, but I do say they must be real, not someone else's words, and that if a dispute exists, then killing the person is not an option. And let us not misunderstand. That is what you have done when the tube is pulled, and not reinserted. If there was a murder case with so much confusion, would you agree that the convicted person should be executed? I think not. You see DA, you are not consistent. All is politics with you. Sooner or later I hope you understand that isn't life.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#87)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 02:08:48 PM EST
    I believe this issue is completely out of control. At which point did the discussion ignore the "quality of life" issue that belongs solely to Terry Schiavo? I personally would not want to be maintained in a vegetative state for anyone else's emotional well-being. If I cannot participate in the life I have, I don't want it.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#88)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 03:00:17 PM EST
    She has NO LIVING WILL. The only thing obligating her death are the words of her husband, who has had a fulltime girlfriend for 10 years, 2 new kids with the new woman, and has 'remembered' her wishes ONLY 7 years later, when the insurance money appeared. If this were a death penalty case, and the only evidence 'convicting' the 'accused' was the testimony this man.. Clearly the murderer would be spared. But not this innocent, incapacitated woman; surely she is "The Least Among Us". In your sick world, She must Die.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#89)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 08:53:39 PM EST
    DA - My purpose is not advice, but comment on your illogical state of affairs. Horse - That makes no difference. I hope that feel the same when there turn comes.

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#90)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Tue Mar 22, 2005 at 08:54:26 PM EST
    in the spirit of correction... that os "their turn..."

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#92)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Wed Mar 23, 2005 at 10:58:58 PM EST
    This is not the beginning of the end but another sign. Is it possible that this country is going to hell with government's assistance? Terry's tragic end is a sign of coming attractions. It is just a matter of time before the government initiates medicare hits. In fact, maybe we won't have to be concerned about social security. This may be the new solution. In sum, please do not be shocked when the next execution is a chronically ill person who has exceeded their newly imposed medicare spending limit. Terry Schiavo God and some humans do love you! Did she really ask to be killed?

    Re: Bush Signs Terri Schiavo Legislation (none / 0) (#93)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Mar 31, 2005 at 05:04:06 AM EST
    In 1971 a friend of mine returned home to find his wife brutally beaten by presumed burglars this was in Durban South Africa.Part of her brains was visible,she never regained conscience and was like the lady in Florida.After 7 years my friend obtained a divorce and remarried,he had 2 very young boys at time attack,here's my point sometime later we were talking over a few beers and I asked him how was life now he said that what he was going to tell was really bad he then told me that the presence of his hanged over his everyday life and that he sometimes wished she should die to release him and the 2 boys from the strain then he said other times he knew that where there is life there is hope i just thgought to let you that the husband of Mrs Shiavo may sub consciously feel the same my friends wife did eventually die to this day he tells he feels guilty of willing her to die