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Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:14:49 AM EST
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    Thursday Open Thread | 38 comments (38 topical)
    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#1)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:33:57 AM EST
    I propose we begin an effort for a Two Million Citizen March for the Seperation of Church and State. There is a real threat to America and it is far greater than the cold war ever was! I am a disabled Vietnam Vet and wheelchair bound but, if needed I'll gladly tie myself to an old ford pickup and have myself towed all the way to The Capital. Let's work together and P A S S I T O N ! !

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#2)
    by roy on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:41:28 AM EST
    Ed, If you're serious, set up a website and pick a tentative date and place. People respond much better when facing a deadline. Also, define what you mean by "separation of church and state". Even amongst Leftists there's a lot of disagreement about how that should work.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#3)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:49:38 AM EST
    Its time to start taxing the churches!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#4)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:55:00 AM EST
    Greenspan: Budget Deficits Pose Threat

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#5)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 09:58:37 AM EST
    Howard Dean drew ‘howls of laughter by mimicking a drug-snorting Rush Limbaugh’, Minneapolis.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#6)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:04:48 AM EST
    Do DUI Roadblocks Work?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#7)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:06:07 AM EST
    'Harry Blackmun's papers reveal that, more than any justice in memory, he gave his law clerks control over his thinking and writing when he was on the Supreme Court.'

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#8)
    by Darryl Pearce on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:07:42 AM EST
    Gosh, pigwiggle, I hope you're as incensed by Rush Limbaugh's mocking of the Clintons.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#9)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:08:18 AM EST
    “The number of people who died at [the terrorists’] hands is the same as the number of women who die at men’s hands-every year,” she said. “9/11 happens in this very country every year.”;MacKinnon, a professor at the University of Michigan Law School

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#10)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:23:52 AM EST
    Lets say something about the filibuster battle, can the so called political people talk about jobs, money? and our social security, undeclared war on the people of this country by its government, airports security the big joke on us all, welfare, widespread corruption inside our non government, the borders, the killing of unarmed people by the cops, profiling of one race(white) the urge needs of the poor and our prison system that is out-of-control, the list is endless and its a list that will not end with a government that can't do anything without orders from the real leaders, and ask who is in control? and who is making the money in the N.A.F.T.A.? And lets us not forget china and the money going to china, but what will be talked about is non political Issues, and why is that, bacause the deal is in and you "Our" out the door.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#11)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:30:43 AM EST
    “Gosh, pigwiggle, I hope you're as incensed by Rush Limbaugh's mocking of the Clintons.” I don’t care for Limbaugh. Since Limbaugh is a boob Dean’s crass behavior is excused?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#12)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:34:52 AM EST
    What really matters anymore? The economy? Nah. The government? Nah. Anything? Nah. The only thing left to do is increase spending, wage more war, both domestic (drug war) and foreign (for FREEDOM, er, um, regime change, no, not that, weapons of mass destruction, yeah that's it, whatever, it doesn't matter), and make everybody poorer. That seems to be the agenda, anyway, so what does any of it matter? Keep a low profile, keep your doors locked and hunker down because they're coming for you. If not you, then your sons and daughters for involuntary service. Think you're free? Fact is, you're not. Pay your taxes (50 percent of what you earn) and get to work.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#13)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:40:12 AM EST
    Speaking of heck, did anyone else hear of that bill recently passed by the legislature in Wisconsin which allows hunters to kill stray and feral cats with impunity? Seems like the bill is positively medieval. I guess stray dogs are next on the hit list. What's up with the folks with the big cheese? Makes me want to start a boycott of dairy products from Wisconsin. 10-4, Come back, y'all...

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 10:56:54 AM EST
    To: Steve Plonk, yes i did, i think it's down right evil as hell, Cats are good guys, but many people just toss a cat and dogs into the street and think nothing of it, but to kill a cat or dog like that is evil, what next homeless people the insane? or just start killing old people! for fun. Here in old so-cal(and mexico), you could get $50.00 dollars for killing an American Indian up to 1920, it was removed from the law books in that year. But lets face facts, people don't care about much in the empire.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#15)
    by roy on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:17:50 AM EST
    Number of articles complaining about the Minuteman Project: Four (1, 2, 3, 4) Accusations since proven false: one. The Border Patrol has stated that ACLU observers were primarily responsible for setting off sensors, not the Minutemen. Dire predictions to come true: none Apologies from TL: none Me promising not to whine about it any more: priceless

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#16)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 11:32:06 AM EST
    I liked the dui roadblock link pig. It seems everytime I pass thru one (their use seems to be on the rise in my community), very few are getting arrested for drunk driving, more are being ticketed (aka extorted) for no seat belt, insurance or registration lapse, suspended license, broken tailight...stuff like that. Is it for safety or a municipal revenue scheme? I say more of the latter. DUI roadblocks are a disgrace to a so-called free society. In any and all instances, probable cause should be required before law enforcement can interfere in the coming and goings of the citizenry. Stopping and hassling every citizen on the road is too tyrannical for my taste. Remember folks...true freedom is messy, dangerous, and sometimes bloody. But isn't it glorious?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#17)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 12:15:13 PM EST
    Roy, If your chalking the minutemen up as victorious in their efforts, no wonder you think Bush and the republicans are doing a great job. Did the Minutement whip out a "Mission accomplished" sign and hang it from their gun racks?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#18)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 12:16:52 PM EST
    Kdog, DUI roadblocks are your War on Drugs at work. You should see some of the things tiny towns in the middle of nowhere are buying with their anti-terror money (see chimp cop thread above).

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 12:23:11 PM EST
    I can only imagine mfox. Anyone seen "The Road to Tyranny" by Alex Jones? Funny story, I inexpicably found a copy in my mailbox, it wasn't mailed but placed there, and no one I know will claim responsibility for giving it to me. Weird eh? Anyways, there is a clip near the end of a free american woman refusing to cooperate at a checkpoint. She basically gets dragged out of the car by thugs of the state. A brilliant illustration of what happens to Americans who take their liberty seriously and are willing to stand up for it.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#20)
    by pigwiggle on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 01:04:48 PM EST
    British Court Rules to Allow Baby to Die

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#21)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 01:12:34 PM EST
    MacKinnon is jive, Pig. She calls every act of sexual intercourse rape. Since half the domestic violence is perped by women on men, wouldn't the reverse be true as well? Nore the smear against all men. She turns a half-truth into a damn lie. Re Limbaugh, regardless what you you think of him personally, he is capable of ridiculing the rhetorical excesses of the left, often sharply.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#22)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 01:47:29 PM EST
    Warm up the fingers, folks. Europe - AP British Court Rules to Allow Baby to Die 14 minutes ago Europe - AP By SUE LEEMAN, Associated Press Writer LONDON - Rejecting a bid by the parents, a British judge on Thursday upheld a court order allowing doctors to let a critically ill baby die if she stops breathing — a move doctors say is the only humane way to end the child's suffering. Eighteen-month-old Charlotte Wyatt can hardly see or hear and weighed about a pound when she was born prematurely. Her brain and other organs are so seriously damaged that she has "no feeling other than continuing pain," according to physicians. Darren and Debbie Wyatt, who believe in preserving life at any cost, sought to overturn a court order granted in October. But Justice Mark Hedley was not persuaded by the parents' pleas.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#23)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 02:23:07 PM EST
    See Pig? Great minds think alike :) Doc Ace... Puhleeze
    Since half the domestic violence is perped by women on men, wouldn't the reverse be true as well?
    Half? Which half dies from it more? You've now lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned, Doc.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#24)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 02:23:53 PM EST
    Kdog... I found out where you lived ;) thought you would enjoy the literary selection.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#25)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 06:01:00 PM EST
    mfox, MacKinnon has no credibility, so any "conclusions" you draw from her prattle have no credibility. Therefore we have the blind leading the blind. So naturally, you must say I have no credibility. A negative plus a negative equals a negative. Therefore, not to have credibility with you is to have credibility. Thanks for the compliment.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#26)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Thu Apr 21, 2005 at 06:37:36 PM EST
    Doc, I reread your comment and may have misunderstood it. I don't know McKinnon's work but do understand the theory behind what you've summarized. It has some academic merit in discussion circles in the sense that she probably purports that equal participation in the sexual act has an inherently unequal biological dynamic that can frame women as "victims of violence". If that's the case then I misunderstood your next statement by not putting it in context. So, sorry to take back the compliment ; ) I'm sure I'll find another reason to find you in-credible in the future so can we call it a raincheck??

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 08:09:51 AM EST
    Sure, mfox. I like your ist paragraph in that last post. MacKinnon, while jive, may very well be the finest jive. I never post here without considering every aspect of what I say. I know the ways of the left because I was once among the most left-leaning, and I know the orthodoxy as thoroughly as any here. Before mant try to refute me, I already know what their arguments will be. Rain check, no problem. Someday you too may join the vast right-wing conspiracy and find inner peace.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#28)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 09:27:17 AM EST
    Hah! (Don't count on it). However, I welcome and in fact come here for challenges to my ideas. Challenges, discussion and an occasional search for common ground. One thing I have learned from Talk Left and by looking honestly is that some conservatives have very well thought out positions that they can justify. I therefore cannot dismiss "you all" as stupid or cruel. George Lakoff, in "Don't think of an Elephant" proposes that we are divided by the framing of issues. He talks about what image we have of "family values" and mentions two - the Patriarchal/Discipline = Morality and generates success model and the Nurturant Parent/love your neighbor and you'll raise everyone up together model. I have since looked at right and left leaning posts with a new eye for commonality.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#29)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 12:27:59 PM EST
    Kdog.... In any and all instances, probable cause should be required before law enforcement can interfere in the coming and goings of the citizenry I completely agree..... Check this out... The State of Illinois is now sending out questionnaires (random they say) for proof of insurance. If you don't comply...they suspend your license.. And, if that weren’t enough, you have to pay the postage to send it back!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 12:36:39 PM EST
    BB...I'll have to add that to the evergrowing list of outrages. Unbelieveable.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#31)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 12:57:01 PM EST
    LONDON, England -- Workers distracted by phone calls, e-mails and text messages suffer a greater loss of IQ than a person smoking marijuana, a British study shows. The constant interruptions reduce productivity and leave people feeling tired and lethargic, according to a survey carried out by TNS Research and commissioned by Hewlett Packard. The survey of 1,100 Britons showed: Almost two out three people check their electronic messages out of office hours and when on holiday Half of all workers respond to an e-mail within 60 minutes of receiving one One in five will break off from a business or social engagement to respond to a message. Nine out of 10 people thought colleagues who answered messages during face-to-face meetings were rude, while three out of 10 believed it was not only acceptable, but a sign of diligence and efficiency. But the mental impact of trying to balance a steady inflow of messages with getting on with normal work took its toll, the UK's Press Association reported. In 80 clinical trials, Dr. Glenn Wilson, a psychiatrist at King's College London University, monitored the IQ of workers throughout the day. He found the IQ of those who tried to juggle messages and work fell by 10 points -- the equivalent to missing a whole night's sleep and more than double the 4-point fall seen after smoking marijuana. "This is a very real and widespread phenomenon," Wilson said. "We have found that this obsession with looking at messages, if unchecked, will damage a worker's performance by reducing their mental sharpness. "Companies should encourage a more balanced and appropriate way of working." Wilson said the IQ drop was even more significant in the men who took part in the tests. "The research suggests that we are in danger of being caught up in a 24-hour 'always on' society," said David Smith of Hewlett Packard. "This is more worrying when you consider the potential impairment on performance and concentration for workers, and the consequent impact on businesses."

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#32)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 01:42:11 PM EST
    Interesting J. I think I'm the last person in America without a cellphone or a text message thing a majig. When do certain technologies stop becoming a convenience, and start becoming a hassle?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 02:02:37 PM EST
    dOg, there a convenience when you don't have one, but as soon as you purchase/acquire one, the hassle starts. i too was without the latest "thing a majig", and quite content i might add, my kids remedied that for me, then reminded me i forgot to thank them!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 02:08:55 PM EST
    ""We have found that this obsession with looking at messages, if unchecked, will damage a worker's performance by reducing their mental sharpness." Hmmm, wonder if this obsession with looking at messages on TL (or any similar blog) has the same effect? Have a good weekend all!

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#35)
    by Jlvngstn on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 02:32:23 PM EST
    I average about 60 minutes a month on my cell and it is all my wife and I coordinating stuff. Email though, man I am an addict....Talkleft, I wonder how much this site costs me each month as I should be selling instead of flapping my fingers... Guess weed is better than email, is it 4:20 ?

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#36)
    by pigwiggle on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 03:10:31 PM EST
    MJ dropping IQ points? I smoked on average 2 maybe 3 times a day every day through a BS in physical chemistry and a BS in mathematics. I especially enjoyed getting torn up and cranking through some gritty calculus or algebra proofs. There was a single-minded obsessive kind of mindset instigated by the high. It’s hard to describe, but an analogy might be how salt enhances or brings out certain flavors. I don’t think I have ever thought so deeply or savored a given idea as much. Ahhh, the good old days.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#37)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Apr 22, 2005 at 11:08:48 PM EST
    I've never been an avid user of illegal drugs. There's something wrong in the world when it's easier for undergraduates to find someone selling drugs than it is to get an advisor to give you information about a decent internship. I would be surprised if any of my colleagues had touched illegal substances recently. But those people that I was acquainted with in the past that did are still struggling to keep their lives on track living in their own private hells, waiting for fate to show them the path out. Perhaps they wouldn't have found their way into "living wage" careers/jobs without drugs, but the drug abuse didn't help. Neither did the lack of resources available for their education. Finally, Ace wrote: "I never post here without considering every aspect of what I say." I actually believe you - which only makes it that much more sad.

    Re: Thursday Open Thread (none / 0) (#38)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Apr 23, 2005 at 06:52:45 AM EST
    Tamp, there is life after orthodoxy. No need to feel sad; with a little effort, you too can leave the dogma behind and join the thinking people (maybe with a lot of effort...)

    Thursday Open Thread | 38 comments (38 topical)