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Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut

By Jeralyn, Section Terror Trials
Posted on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 02:27:56 PM EST
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Three defense lawyers for accused "dirty bomber" Jose Padilla got stranded in Beirut where they were taking depositions in the case and doing research to prepare for Padilla's Miami trial. Happily, they are now safe and on Cyprus.

Miami Assistant Federal Public Defender Orlando do Campo and two private lawyers, William Swor of Detroit and Andrew Patel of New York, traveled to Lebanon about three weeks ago. They were there to do research and take depositions in preparation for the scheduled federal trial in September of accused dirty bomber Jose Padilla and four other defendants before U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke.

The lawyers were stuck at a Beirut hotel, according to Swor's secretary. They had departed for Beirut on July 2 and were supposed to return on July 14. But war broke out July 12 when Israel began its campaign to recover two kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Israel bombed the airport, trapping the lawyers and thousands of other Americans and Europeans in Lebanon. The lawyers had no choice but to stay on at the hotel while the U.S. and other governments made plans to evacuate their citizens....

Bill Swor e-mailed colleagues from Beirut:

A local lawyer who was on the e-mail list described some of Swor's dispatches.

"Day 1: We're sipping pina coladas by the pool. The staff is wonderful. Day 2: We've moved into one room. The French got out. This is like Hurricane Katrina all over again -- Bush can't seem to coordinate these things."

Turns out, it may have been the Swedish government rather than our's that got the three out.

Sources said the three men may have been rescued by the Swedish government, along with a group of Swedes who also were trapped at the hotel.

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    Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut | 44 comments (44 topical)
    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#1)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:27:37 PM EST
    "Day 1: We're sipping pina coladas by the pool. The staff is wonderful. Day 2: We've moved into one room. The French got out. This is like Hurricane Katrina all over again -- Bush can't seem to coordinate these things."
    Somebody tell this guy that Bush didn't send him over there, so he can get himself out.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#2)
    by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:43:57 PM EST
    Actually, bush did in effect send him over there by locking up a citizen indefinitely w/o trial or charges.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#3)
    by kdog on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 03:52:50 PM EST
    Somebody tell this guy that Bush didn't send him over there, so he can get himself out
    We pay taxes to have embassies to get out us out of harms way when all hell breaks loose abroad. Especially when the hell breaking loose are the bombs purchased with our tax dollars. Then they have the gaul to bill you for the evacuation from the bombs you paid for. Jeez It's time to start seriously thinking about getting the pitchforks and torches ready.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#4)
    by jimcee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:24:44 PM EST
    I knew it wouldn't take long for someone to say "ITS ALL BUSH'S FAULT!" I'm with PPakaJim because it isn't like anyone forced them to be in Lebanon they were there voluntarily. The unmitigated gall to be at the bar when they could have been making arrangments to get thier sorry *sses out of there and then complaining because someone else didn't do it for them fast enough. Sheesh, what are these people teenagers? This idiot sounds like that young woman who had just landed in Cypress that was interviewed on CNN the other morning whining about how there was no food and too many flies, too hot, etc and how it was like a floating refugee camp on the ship that brought her out of a war zone. You're in a war zone and then you not, be grateful no one left your sorry butt there. Afterall it isn't as if there hasn't been a State Dept travel advisory for Lebanon for a long time now.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#5)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 04:34:08 PM EST
    sailor - No, Bush didn't. If they wanted to go, that was their business. Not the tax payers of the US. And I feel the same way about all the others who were there. I wish them well, but their travel decisions are their travel decisons.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#6)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 05:05:15 PM EST
    And of course ppj would react the exact same way even if the lawyers happened to be staunch, loyal, Bush supporters.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#7)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 05:52:30 PM EST
    Well, I am sure that it is a coincidence, I mean they think for themselves, mostly, well sometimes. They wouldn't just regurgitate talking points from the darkest parts of wingnuttia, would they? Besides what kind of nutjob would go to Lebanon, anyway? Terrorist sympathizers, and Muslims I am sure. Well the US government is on to them, ppj and jimcee. They are in no rush to save a bunch of spoiled commies. Didn't they say the same kind of things about evacuees from Katerina?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#8)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 05:57:43 PM EST
    Well I suspect the well connected elites were given notice. The funny thing ppj and his ilk think they are actually part of the "club" when in fact the ruling elites are playing them like a worn out guitar.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#9)
    by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 05:57:56 PM EST
    Squeaky, I had this big pi$$ed off post ready to go and ... I read yours. You did it better and funnier than I could have. Thanks. Besides, she was askin' for it!

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#10)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:18:54 PM EST
    Sailor- Always a pleasure.
    Well I suspect the well connected elites were given notice. The funny thing ppj and his ilk think they are actually part of the "club" when in fact the ruling elites are playing them like a worn out guitar.
    Couldn't agree with you more soccerdad. These guys think that they are part of the cluster of Aspens when they are really more like one of these.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#11)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:34:16 PM EST
    I understand it's your site and your right to post whatever you want. However there has to be something more important to discuss than this. (confused)

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#12)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 06:45:33 PM EST
    Squeaky - Perhaps you might read the post. In it you will discover the subject. Then read my second comment. In it you will discover:
    And I feel the same way about all the others who were there. I wish them well, but their travel decisions are their travel decisons.
    Don't facts act as great BS shields??

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#13)
    by Sailor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:48:42 PM EST
    Required to be there as part of their job so they put on the best defense possible in one of the most important constitutional cases of our time ... ... ... yep, she was just askin' for it. Thanks Squeaky.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#14)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:52:40 PM EST
    This is from the State Dept website
    Tips for Travelers to the Middle East and North Africa Foreword Travel to the Middle East and North Africa can be a rich and rewarding adventure. Whether you are a novice or an experienced world traveler, we think that this guide will be of assistance to you as you plan a safe and enjoyable trip. Remember: If you encounter serious difficulties in your travels, American consuls at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad are there to help you. If you are planning to stay for a long period of time, or are visiting an area that is experiencing political unrest or other problems, please register at the Consular Section of the nearest U.S. embassy or consulate. ... (Note: Before you travel, please check the Consular Affairs Internet site at http://travel.state.gov to see if any Travel Warnings or Public Announcements have been issued for the country(ies) you plan to visit.) ... Terrorism/Security The Department of State warns U.S. citizens of the risks of travel to Lebanon and recommends that Americans exercise caution while traveling there. During Lebanon's civil conflict from 1975 to 1990, Americans were the targets of numerous terrorist attacks in Lebanon. While there have been very few such incidents in recent years, the perpetrators of these attacks are still present in Lebanon and retain the ability to act. The U.S. government considers the potential threat to U.S. personnel sufficiently serious to require that U.S. citizen employees of the American Embassy live and work under a strict security regime. Hizballah, an anti-West and anti-Israel terrorist organization that was formed in Lebanon, has not been disarmed, and it maintains a presence in several areas of the country, including training camps in the Biqaa' Valley. There are thousands of Syrian troops in the country. Palestinian groups hostile to both the Lebanese government and the U.S. operate largely autonomously inside refugee camps in different areas of the country. Visitors should also be aware that the U.S. Embassy in Beirut operates under tight security conditions, which limit the Embassy's ability to assist Americans. ...
    They forgot to warn about the possibility of being bombed by Israel, didn't they? Where exactly are the Syrian troops?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#15)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 07:53:39 PM EST
    If people want to make poor travel decisions had maintain ppj's unqualified support, the least the could do is get their heads cut off.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#16)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:00:14 PM EST
    and, they. You get the idea.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#17)
    by jimcee on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:01:26 PM EST
    Squeaky, Wingnuttia? what are the odds that there could be anyone in the world that doesn't recite thier sides talking points! You know, just like you do. Me? I like to think for myself and if that coincides with the weather guy from Fox so be it. I guess its better than if I happened to agree with Al Roker. I know personal responsiblity is an alien concept for many folks but it doesn't change the fact that if someone travels to someplace that is on the DoS advisory list they should already know that it is a good idea to have contingency plans. It is just common sense but again that is a quality that is rather lacking in your world. While visiting my wife's cousin yesterday he was saying the same thing as PPakaJim and I have said. He just returned from Uganda for a photography assignment and related how he had private 'contacts' in case he ran into trouble. He couldn't believe these idiots were complaining because no one came and picked them up as if the gov't was thier mother. Oh and he is kind of a Lefty, the kind with common sense. Call it cold, call it shameful if it makes you feel better about yourself but it doesn't change the fact that if you got your *ss over there then you should be prepared to get yourself out again in an emergency. If the US govt deigns to drag you out of there because of your own idiocy then be grateful and don't whine about the service. By the way Sqeaky I've been to Lebanon, in the '80s. It was pretty rough at the time but I didn't expect anyone to come recue me if I got into trouble. Never had the chance to drink a Pina Colada in a hotel bar although I sure could of used one. Soccerdad, What is this cryptic 'club' you speak of? Or is it just another of your fever-dreams?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#18)
    by squeaky on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:12:21 PM EST
    Posted by jimcee July 21, 2006 09:01 PM Squeaky, Wingnuttia?
    I fell off my chair laughing. Good one jimcee.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#19)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 08:23:28 PM EST
    Was Lebanon this violent in the past year? I thought they at least had functioning airports and roads up until last week. There wasn't a crisis threat in June, was there?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#20)
    by soccerdad on Fri Jul 21, 2006 at 09:02:21 PM EST
    Jimcee talking about personal responsibility and he backs the Bush clowns now thats delusional. The Bush cabal wasted billions fattening Haliburton coffers but cant shell out a few bucks to evacuate some people from a war zone they helped create. Oh and they also wont pick up the cost of all the credit checks that vets have to do because some government moron had his laptop stolen with all the personal data on it. Gee got to find a way to pay for that estate tax rollback. Truly pathetic.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#21)
    by jen on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 06:15:36 AM EST
    when they use the words 'personal responsibility' all they mean is "we could not possibly care less about these people" They go through hysterical contortions of logic sometimes. "proving" it is the victims fault so they won't have to care. Don't bother trying to explain it to them. They CAN'T get it.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 07:49:52 AM EST
    Sailor - Whether or not they were "required by their job" is something that neither you, or me, know to be true. But if they were, then the US government still has no requirement to provide transportation in and out of Lebanon..... That would include those on vacation, working, researching ME birds, etc., etc. If the taxpayer does it, be happy and thankful he hasn't gotten smart enough to tell you to swim home.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#23)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 07:59:27 AM EST
    If caught in a similar situation, I would not count on the US State Dept. getting me out, even though I pay them to. They are called taxes. And yes it is ironic that these US citizens are dodging bombs paid for from the same source. Rumi, Interestingly, that pamphlet was from August 2001. The Syrians have since been booted. They actually provided security in S. Lebanon from '91 til this last spring, when the elected Lebanese government, pressured by the US and Israel, kicked them out. This caused a security vacuum in S. Lebanon which was quickly filled by Hizbollah. However, since the Palestinians also elected Hamas as their representative government ("Democracy is spreading all through the Middle East" - C. Rice), Israel and the US have placed an economic embargo on an entire society and waged a military campaign of often not so accurate "targeted assasinations" in the WB and Gaza. Much of this destruction and economic starvation is funded by the US taxpayers. Hizbollah has gained tremendous support because of Israel's systematic destruction of the infrastructure of any residual Palestinian society in the occupied territories. So Israel is providing plenty of political ammunition to their opposition. That BS about pulling out of Gaza is a smokescreen. They are making those areas uninhabitable as they leave. Meanwhile, in the West Bank, the Israeli's continue to build a massive barrier right through Palestinian farmland and continue to allow, support, and expand over 150 settlements in Palestinian territory. Unfortuntaely, the US MSM shows us fire and explosions next to pictures of dark skinned men with beards in scarves and uses the word terrorism in every sentence. This is race baiting, lying propaganda.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#24)
    by Sailor on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 08:18:55 AM EST
    It's US weapons being used, (in a way that violates our agreement), bush is tacitly letting/encouraging israel commit warfare on civilians, it's out tax dollars that israel is using.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#25)
    by kdog on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 08:46:26 AM EST
    Of course jimcee...when push comes to shove you are always on your own. But that does not excuse the fact that the most powerful country on earth can't get their people out of a warzone faster than France or Switzerland. Why pay taxes? I'm of the opinion that the US govt. dragged their feet on the evac until other nations shamed them into motion. They didn't want to publicize that the average Joe in Lebanon was in serious danger thanks to US bombs. If Israel was under a full scale aerial attack, our citizens would have been evacuated a lot faster.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 09:09:12 AM EST
    Sailor writes:
    They actually provided security in S. Lebanon from '91 til this last spring, when the elected Lebanese government, pressured by the US and Israel, kicked them out. This caused a security vacuum in S. Lebanon which was quickly filled by Hizbollah.
    No, what they did was allow Hezbollah to set up shop, import weapons, etc. They also allowed Hezbolla to become part of the government.. the so-called "political arm." Of coutrse there is no difference between the two. kdog - Come on. If you believe things that easily the first semi-bluff will have you spinning. ;-) The real question is, why do the taxpayers have a responsibility to get 25,000 or so people who are in there despite warnings, despite knowledge that the area can blow up at anytime, out? That we do so is pure charity, so those coming out could at least say thanks and not complain. Do you think Aunt Matilda in Des Moines might have a better claim on the money spent to buy her meds and pay her utilities? You play, you pay is my motto.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#27)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 09:10:33 AM EST
    Rumi, Interestingly, that pamphlet was from August 2001. The Syrians have since been booted. They actually provided security in S. Lebanon from '91 til this last spring, when the elected Lebanese government, pressured by the US and Israel, kicked them out. This caused a security vacuum in S. Lebanon which was quickly filled by Hizbollah.
    Che - I used that source to show that as a current source of official information, the inaccuracies are likely to be seen as deliberate misinformation. What else can it be but sanctioned propaganda? That link still pulls up the same page with today's date on it.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#28)
    by Che's Lounge on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 09:33:02 AM EST
    Rumi, I just thought it was interesting. I wasn't trying to dispute your POV.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#29)
    by squeaky on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 09:54:33 AM EST
    So black heart ppj: Why did the US gov have a responsibility to evacucate Americans from NOLA, and Florida during devastating hurricaines? Why did the US have a responsibitily to evacuate their citizens from Albania in 1997? As Laura Rozan experienced:
    When I witnessed several hundred to a few thousand Americans evacuated from Albania in 1997, there were streams of Marine helicopters moving people to a US aircraft carrier in the sea non stop for three days until everybody was out. The evacuation began just a few days after Tirana airport was shut down by civil strife. It was all over in three days.
    Why do we send earthquake aid, drought or famime relief, malaria and AIDs eradication money and other money around the world regularly to help the local people with devastating catastrophies or tragedies. Because that is what a responsible country, not to mention superpower, does for its citizens and the other peoples of the world. These are what are known as humanitarian deeds. Just because you have only very selective empathy and humanity for others, doesn't mean that my country should reflect that unhistoric postion to the world and treat its own citizens so shabbily even if they are of muslim decent. ppj's theme song: Me, me and my SUV, Fu*k everyone else.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#30)
    by John Mann on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 10:26:10 AM EST
    Jim wrote:
    No, what they did was allow Hezbollah to set up shop, import weapons, etc. They also allowed Hezbolla to become part of the government.. the so-called "political arm." Of coutrse there is no difference between the two.
    "Allow"? Do you mean "allow" in the same way the United States "allowed" Timothy McVeigh and his pals to build a bomb to carry out the OK City bombing? Or how the U.S. "allows" neo-Nazi groups to openly parade around preaching hate? How about the KKK, Jim? Does the U.S. "allow" the Klan to flourish? Many Klan members are elected officials, Jim. Why does the U.S. "allow" this? Jim, why did the U.S. "allow" terrorists to enter the country legally, set up shop, take flight training courses to carry out their terrorist activities, and kill thousands of people on 9/11? Why does the U.S. "allow" these things, Jim?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#31)
    by Dadler on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 11:17:40 AM EST
    Another great piece by Chris Albritton, currently in Lebanon charting the descent into shock-and-awe madness by the Israelis. It is telling in its description of waning Hezzbollah support BEFORE Israel's action. And how the Leabanese were in the process of dealing polititcally with a problem they KNEW could not be left to the non-existent military solution, which they feared, rightfully, would lead to another useless civil war. Now that this non-existent solution is being used and making things worse, well, guess what, now Hizzbollah is GAINING support. Nice job. Idiots.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#32)
    by Dadler on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 11:33:13 AM EST
    John Mann, Nice try, but Jim does not countenance any self-criticism that attempts to show how stinky our own sh*t can be. McVeigh was the one anomaly, he'll say. And so was Eric Rudolph. And so are abortion clinic bombers, and white supremicists who spread their violent b.s.., and so are and so are and so are. Don't you understand? Our kooks have never really hurt anyone -- wait, scratch that -- our kooks have never said they wanted to overthrow the U.S. government -- shoot, scratch that too -- our kooks never massed weapons like a private army -- damn, scratch that, too. Look, here's Jim's thing, our kooks, well, our kooks, it's just, they're... Our kooks are AMERICANS, dammit, they're just not the SAME, don't you GET IT??? And that's why we ignore them and allow the abuse and killing of innocent civilians abroad -- because, dammit, we can, and we will, and it's gonna make things better, just trust us. And even IF there's no track record of trust-in-us amounting to anything more than misery, still, ya gotta trust us. Ahem.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#33)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 11:52:44 AM EST
    Che, I didn't think there was any dispute. I was just trying to clarify the clarification for anyone that might have missed it. You haven't presumed incorrectly but I have seen times where others assume my POV based on the content of info I bring in. By the way, hasn't Hezbollah been especially careful of it's choice for barter worthy abductees? I don't think average citizens were at that great of risk (for abduction) but bombing, maybe. I think this evacuation, same as Katrina rescue failures, are all indicative of the Bush admin. The relationship to private contractor for govt services takes priority over people's welfare. sad, that.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#34)
    by John Mann on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 03:54:18 PM EST
    Our kooks are AMERICANS, dammit, they're just not the SAME, don't you GET IT???
    Thank you, Dadler: I can't imagine what I was thinking.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#35)
    by Sailor on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 05:50:55 PM EST
    Posted by JimakaPPJ July 22, 2006 10:09 AM Sailor writes: They actually provided security in S. Lebanon from '91 til this last spring [...]
    No, I didn't. Still having that problem with truthiness or did the nurse forget your meds ... again?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#36)
    by Sailor on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 07:06:05 PM EST
    Yet another reason why bushco should pay the frieght. From the NYT
    The Bush administration is rushing a delivery of precision-guided bombs to Israel
    BTW, how's that war on terror going?
    Iraq Parliament Speaker Calls for US Withdrawal

    Iraq's parliament speaker Mahmud Mashhadani bitterly criticized US forces in Iraq, accusing them of "butchery" and demanded that they pull out of the country.
    Anyone else remember when we said we'd leave when the wanted us to? And IRT afghanistan:
    Afghanistan Close to Anarchy, Warns General · NATO commander's view in stark contrast to ministers' · Forces short of equipment and 'running out of time'


    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 07:24:41 PM EST
    Sailor, John Mann and Dadler Yes, they did such a good job that Hezbollah has hundreds, perhaps thousands of missiles. John Mann - None of those you write about have representatives in the government, and none have missiles. Nice try, but your strawman is on fire. rumi writes:
    I don't think average citizens were at that great of risk (for abduction) but bombing, maybe.
    So let me see. Should I worry about being kidnapped and tortured to death or blew apart by a missile. Kind of redefines Hobson's Choice, eh? rumi, surely even you have to agree on the dumbness of that statement.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#38)
    by John Mann on Sat Jul 22, 2006 at 08:45:30 PM EST
    John Mann - None of those you write about have representatives in the government, and none have missiles.
    Just when I think your responses couldn't be any more feeble, you outdo yourself. Are you sure they don't have missiles, Jim? Aren't they covered by the Second Amendment?

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 08:14:33 AM EST
    John Mann - Do you ever have anything to say besides Bad Israel and Bad USA? Now, again. Can you tell me how many missiles they have? Can you tell me how many seats McVeigh's party had in congress? You seek to change the subject because you can see what everyone can. Hezabolla used the shield of the Syrians in Lebanon to rearm. At the first opportunity, when they felt that the west was distracted by Iran's attempts to build nukes and would let them damage Israel with no counterattacks, they moved. It was a huge, huge, huge mistake. Your search for moral equivalence is never ending. Here, educate yourself. Link

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#40)
    by John Mann on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 08:34:25 AM EST
    Jim, please provide a link to my stating "Bad USA" or "Bad Israel". Get the point? Of course we both know you can't because I never said either of those things. You simply interpret what I say to fit in with what swirls around in the toilet of your mind. You play the same game all the time, making stupid demands like "How many missiles do they have?" or "How many seats McVeigh's party had in Congress?" Since you know perfectly well that neither of those questions can be answered, it's clear that you're not interested in debating or discussing a question. You're only interested in sitting there at your computer in the retirement home, trolling and provoking.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#41)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 09:14:29 AM EST
    So let me see. Should I worry about being kidnapped and tortured to death or blew apart by a missile. Kind of redefines Hobson's Choice, eh?
    That was taken out of context. I believe we were talking about the risks as posed 20 years ago and what they have been recently. If you are in a position of military/intel/business information that has value for sensitivity then I'm afraid the choices you listed are probably true. Other than that, the only way to reduce risk is to seek peace.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 12:06:42 PM EST
    John Mann - You brought the subject up, and now you don't want to discuss it? Typical. rumi - I don't read minds, but what you wrote was:
    By the way, hasn't Hezbollah been especially careful of it's choice for barter worthy abductees? I don't think average citizens were at that great of risk (for abduction) but bombing, maybe.
    That comes out very simply as a defense of Hezbollah, which was my point.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#43)
    by Talkleft Visitor on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 01:52:20 PM EST
    Posted by JimakaPPJ July 23, 2006 01:06 PM John Mann - You brought the subject up, and now you don't want to discuss it? Typical. rumi - I don't read minds, but what you wrote was: By the way, hasn't Hezbollah been especially careful of it's choice for barter worthy abductees? I don't think average citizens were at that great of risk (for abduction) but bombing, maybe. That comes out very simply as a defense of Hezbollah, which was my point.
    That didn't sound like what you were implying and that, defending Hezbollah is also a wrong assumption. I make statements about the actions of Bush and I sure don't defend him. On the actions referred to as kidnappings, my point is that Hezbollah has been, from reports, especially selective of the targets they capture. The process is essentially the same as the rendition procedure the US uses. Targets are high value for intelligence and some have been known to be close to or actually engaged in espionage or drugs or illegal activity.

    Re: Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut (none / 0) (#44)
    by Dadler on Sun Jul 23, 2006 at 02:21:16 PM EST
    "McVeigh's party" has as many seats in Congress as there are irrational extremists in Congress. Figure it out. And suddenly the disastrous conclusion to the Waco standoff with Koresh and his armory STOPS being a conservative cause and Janet Reno becomes a anti-terror hero. Right?

    Jose Padilla's Lawyers Stuck in Beirut | 44 comments (44 topical)