Pennsylvania Primary Results: Live Blog Two

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:15:41 PM EST
Tags: Pennsylvania '08, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton (all tags)

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New live thread here. This one's closing.

Fox and NBC call Pennsylvania for Hillary Clinton.

Our first live blog is filled with comments. We're starting our second, it's below the fold so that it can be a bit wider than the front page allows. Just click on the "There's More" button or bookmark the permalink to go directly to it.

If you experience scrolling issues, toggle the scroll button at the bottom of your screen.

Comment as with any other thread, in the space below.

Update: Comments now closed.

< Pennsylvania Primary Results: Live Blog One | Pennsylvania Primary Results: Live Blog Three >

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Pennsylvania Primary Results: Live Blog Two | 258 comments (258 topical)

thanks Jeralyn and BTD (5.00 / 14) (#1)
by daria g on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:54:06 PM EST

for covering this! Glad to have a place to visit and follow the results. Just wanted to say that

Yeah.... (5.00 / 3) (#4)
by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:54:41 PM EST

thanks...

Parent

Me too (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:31 PM EST

So nice..as Timmeh would say, thank you for sharing your views.

Parent

: moi as well (5.00 / 3) (#19)
by tnjen on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:57:48 PM EST

:) and w00t!!

Parent

So much word. You two are great! (5.00 / 2) (#27)
by lansing quaker on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:22 PM EST

Parent

Thanks (none / 0) (#212)
by chrisvee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:39:47 PM EST

Having a place to get some balanced analysis means so much.

Parent

So true! (none / 0) (#240)
by Leisa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:53:37 PM EST

I can not bring myself to turn on the television! I have my candles glowing up the house and am hoping for a double digit win for Hillary tonight!

Thanks for being here!

Parent

Obama leaving the state (5.00 / 2) (#3)
by myiq2xu on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:54:34 PM EST

says it all

: Yeah. (5.00 / 3) (#25)
by pie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:13 PM EST

And he's lost the momentum he would have loved to have there.

Parent

Results coming in like molasses (5.00 / 4) (#5)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:54:47 PM EST

There is no way that Hillary will win the city of Philadelphia, in my opinion. However, I think that Fox is right and that the early numbers were simply too high for Obama statewide. I await suburban Philly results.

andgarden (5.00 / 4) (#75)
by RalphB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:58 PM EST

Fox says the original exits showed suburban Philly for Obama but they've switched to Clinton winning there.

Parent

Really? (5.00 / 3) (#85)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:06:45 PM EST

This will be an ridiculous landslide for Hillary, then.

Parent

Both my legs (5.00 / 3) (#95)
by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:08:49 PM EST

are tingling....wooohooooo.....

Parent

why do you say that (5.00 / 2) (#98)
by Kathy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:16 PM EST

Oh Great Progenitor of PA?

Parent

Because you can't win with just Philly. (5.00 / 2) (#114)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:12:29 PM EST

Parent

what are your new numbers on this (5.00 / 1) (#153)
by Kathy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:20:58 PM EST

Andgarden? You said landslide, but by how much?

God, I would pay real money (to Clinton) to be a fly on the wall with the Obamas while they watch this come in!

Parent

I'm thinking 10% (none / 0) (#166)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:23:01 PM EST

but it might be a little less, depending on how Philly turns out in the end.

Parent

aw, man! (none / 0) (#174)
by Kathy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:25:56 PM EST

10% isn't landslide enough! We need 16!!!

Parent

You can't always get what you want ;-) (none / 0) (#180)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:28:19 PM EST

Parent

: but if you try sometimes (5.00 / 1) (#187)
by RalphB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:30:37 PM EST

you just might find
you get what you need :-)

Parent

Schadenfreude not a laudable reaction n/t (none / 0) (#207)
by rilkefan on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:38:09 PM EST

Parent

I just hope Michael Barone was right (none / 0) (#164)
by RalphB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:54 PM EST

when he said that!

Parent

I agree (none / 0) (#184)
by MichaelGale on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:29:23 PM EST

at least from what little I know.

Some of those counties have not been counted, like where I am from in SW PA. I know they will go for Clinton.

And the totals on the map appear to show her vote is increasing each time there is an update.

Parent

Suburbs for Clinton? (5.00 / 2) (#94)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:08:27 PM EST

Well, that blows Rahm Emanuel's theory that it is going to be the suburbs that determine November. :)

Parent

gawd (none / 0) (#149)
by tnjen on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:19:48 PM EST

I hope that's true. I saw the suburbs going Clinton on one of the polls but can't remember which one.

Parent

: Sorry, but I don't (none / 0) (#169)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:23:44 PM EST

think so. It would be nice but..... I am anxiously awaiting the map!

Parent

That's a landslide scenario. (5.00 / 2) (#104)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:10:02 PM EST

Parent

55-45 for Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#8)
by DaveOinSF on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:55:40 PM EST

Two thirds of the vote counted so far is coming from Philadelphia, which only provided 20% of the Kerry vote. Looks like a Hillary landslide to me.

Praying you're right! (5.00 / 5) (#28)
by eleanora on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:25 PM EST

I'm happy with any win at all, but 10% would be so sweet. He spent an absolute fortune there, had great press and six weeks. As the media's much-trumpeted front runner, he should have won this in a walk.

Parent

Does it bother anyone how gross (5.00 / 4) (#51)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:59 PM EST

it was the amount of money Obama poured in the state ? I keep on shaking my head to the cost of elections...and it's not even the GE yet. It's crazy ...

Parent

you have to wonder what that could (5.00 / 3) (#67)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:52 PM EST

do if it was spread around to house and senate seats.

Parent

: Inorite? (5.00 / 1) (#87)
by eleanora on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:07:03 PM EST

If we had even one-twentieth of what was spent by both sides on this one contest to use for Dems here in MT, we'd be looking at a true-blue state for the fall.

Parent
: lt's kind of (5.00 / 1) (#126)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:15:39 PM EST

embarrassing to show the world we are spending these amount of money on primaries ...

Parent

absolutely! (none / 0) (#66)
by Lil on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:47 PM EST

imagine what we could do with the money spent on these campaigns. Ridiculous.

Parent

: snap. (none / 0) (#71)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:19 PM EST

Parent

Rachel Maddow (none / 0) (#91)
by chrisvee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:08:04 PM EST

Thinks that the Obama campaign strategy was to 'break Clinton's bank' and that they achieved it.

Parent

And still lose? (5.00 / 1) (#105)
by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:10:23 PM EST

Great strategy, because it nullifies the "I get more money and its good" argument and she can always loan herself more money! Not to mention the money she'll raise if this is a blowout.

Parent

If she's worth 1000 million (5.00 / 1) (#111)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:11:58 PM EST

she can clearly keep it going.

that was the last large TV market.

Parent

: 100 million. (none / 0) (#175)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:25:56 PM EST

Parent

She's off her head. (5.00 / 5) (#108)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:11:13 PM EST

Clinton will reap a huge cash harvest after this.

Parent

Short Rachel Maddow: (5.00 / 1) (#112)
by lilburro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:12:06 PM EST

They spent all their money and we can still buy kool-aid! AHAHAHAHAHAHA

John King is timetravelling on his map.

Parent

Well, now we have to help her replenish the bank. (none / 0) (#101)
by derridog on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:52 PM EST

Parent

: Yep (5.00 / 1) (#186)
by chrisvee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:29:28 PM EST

I made a donation as soon as they called the state for her. I hope she gets a huge fundraising bump tonight.

Parent

Bothers me a lot (none / 0) (#113)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:12:26 PM EST

I wish we could have all public financing, at least in the form of a designated amount of free air time.

I hope I would say that if the shoe were on the other foot.

Parent

: I agree with both (none / 0) (#137)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:17:24 PM EST

your statements ...

Parent

It's gross (none / 0) (#127)
by wasabi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:16:12 PM EST

It's gross how much both of them are spending. Give some love to the down ticket candidates too.

Parent

he should have won this in a walk. (5.00 / 3) (#125)
by echinopsia on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:15:23 PM EST

And he would have, if he were the better candidate.

Parent

Yet (none / 0) (#69)
by chrisvee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:06 PM EST

Timmeh and KO sit here and discuss the small current margin as if it's real. They are in denial.

Parent

: Russert, et al, ridiculous, saying super-d's (5.00 / 2) (#83)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:06:20 PM EST

are gonna call on HRC to cave and leave, based on the 52-48 in, essentially, Philadelphia.

Parent
: Yeah, KO is the king of (none / 0) (#117)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:13:04 PM EST

ridiculous hypotheticals.

Parent

Timmeh and KO are whinging (none / 0) (#170)
by litigatormom on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:24:23 PM EST

about how Clinton said last year that FLA and MI wouldn't count, but now they want to count the FLA and MI popular votes to count.

KO: whinging about how popular vote is not the metric.

Timmeh says something that actually makes sense: Obama has to win the matchpoint. So far, he hasn't been able to do that.

KO: When you are marketing a new product, you can't take down a known product that's been leading the market in just one year.

I'm going back to American Idol. It is much more rational.

Parent

: Well, Thank Goodness (none / 0) (#246)
by BDB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:55:47 PM EST

McCain has not been a leading product on the market for more than a year or else Keith just said Obama can't win in November.
Oh, wait...

Parent

Hillary may win by double digit (none / 0) (#258)
by PennProgressive on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:03:57 PM EST

Currently, CNN is showing a 6-8% margin for Hillary. But 25% of the precints from Philladelphia have already reported and Obama is leading there by about 10,000 votes. Nothing is in from Scranton or Allentown area. Today I went door to door as part GOTV effort in parts of Scranton where it seemed like more than 80% of the voters were supporting Hillary. Paper ballots were used in Scranton. So perhaps the results from that area will be delayed. I will not be surprised if she wins by double digit. Annd I did not think it was possible. Donna Brazile seems to be in pain now. I will love to see her face if Hillary really wins by double digit.

Parent

CNN (5.00 / 2) (#9)
by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:55:54 PM EST

not enough results for call, but that map is awesome.

So will Obama concede.... (5.00 / 2) (#10)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:05 PM EST

...or we he declare victory because she didn't beat him by 20.

This is how it'll go (5.00 / 3) (#24)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:12 PM EST

White Pennsylvanians are racist gun toting Xenophopic BITTER ENDERS.

Goddamnem!

They are like holding up the victory and the mission accomplished aircraft carrier landing!

Parent

he has two choices (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by dws3665 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:45 PM EST

Declare a moral victory for "keeping it close in her territory" (despite being the foregone conclusion winner and outspending her at least 3:1)

Some version of the low information voters/Archie Bunker/racist PA voters don't count to us "true Dems" meme.

I anticipate a little of both.

Parent

he'll blame archie bunker. (none / 0) (#115)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:12:33 PM EST

Parent

Nope, he'll blame Edith Bunker (5.00 / 4) (#124)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:15:19 PM EST

old white woman that she is. :-)

Parent

Oh, man, what a great episode (5.00 / 1) (#141)
by echinopsia on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:18:16 PM EST

that would have been. Edith votes for a Democratic woman. Archie has a sh*tfit. Edith stands up to him. Meathead and Sally support Edith and the Democratic woman.

I miss that show.

//yes I am old.

Parent

Hmm, could we get Rob Reiner (5.00 / 1) (#185)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:29:26 PM EST

to do a sequel for this election? Some fun! I'd love to see Archie talk about Obama's bowling form.

I think Meathead and Sally would support Edith voting her choice -- but I think Meathead and Sally would split their votes, too; he for Obama, she for Clinton. And that could make some interesting tv, with the generational and gender divides.

And then get the former neighbors, the Jeffersons, back for a visit. . . .

Parent

Meathead for Clinton, (none / 0) (#235)
by echinopsia on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:51:04 PM EST

Sally (why can I not remember her character's name?) for Obama. She was the really ditzy one, remember?

Parent

: Gloria (none / 0) (#251)
by leis on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:57:29 PM EST

Parent

Did you know that was a (none / 0) (#204)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:37:44 PM EST

Britsh sit com rip off?

The English version is Alf Garnet.

It was a made a few years earlier than the American version.

Parent

he can can claim a victory... (none / 0) (#70)
by white n az on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:16 PM EST

because as the 'neutral' Donna Brazille says...anything under 20% loss is a victory for Obama.

Parent

I think it will still be by 18% ;) (5.00 / 2) (#13)
by rooge04 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:35 PM EST

more around 10% (5.00 / 3) (#35)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:17 PM EST

But i'll bet the demographics are astounding proof that Obama will be wiped out in November.

Parent

Holy Hemiola! I pledged $20/point (none / 0) (#36)
by goldberry on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:33 PM EST

I'm going to be broke.

Parent

: you should've asked BarnBabe (5.00 / 1) (#109)
by Kathy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:11:15 PM EST

which horse to bet on!

Parent

and you are basing this on.......? (none / 0) (#55)
by telaensarto on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:01:30 PM EST

I'd like to agree.

Parent

: Hope! And change too! (5.00 / 1) (#96)
by rooge04 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:02 PM EST

Parent

Yes! (5.00 / 2) (#14)
by Oje on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:37 PM EST

And thanks for keeping me sane for the last 6 weeks. Now, where to get more money for Hillary in North Carolina...

: I'm going to find more, again (5.00 / 1) (#54)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:01:24 PM EST

even heading into a teacher's summer (no pay).
My payback will come in November. :-)

Parent

Did Casey really say (5.00 / 3) (#15)
by pie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:43 PM EST

that you can't win in the fall if you don't win PA?!

Whoa.

So (5.00 / 3) (#29)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:28 PM EST

is he now going to switch his vote? Or does he think that winning isn't important?

Parent

: If we get a Dem in teh WH (5.00 / 1) (#44)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:18 PM EST

it always interferes with our majority of Senate And House seats.
Most of the Freshmen would prefer to be in opposition rather than have the Presidency.

Parent

Where did Casey say that? (none / 0) (#58)
by jawbone on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:02:28 PM EST

And was that must win the Dem primary or must win PA in the Fall?

Parent

yes. He most certainly did. (none / 0) (#99)
by rooge04 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:28 PM EST

He ain't too bright that one.

Parent

ABC just called for Hillary (5.00 / 2) (#21)
by caseyOR on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:57:53 PM EST

But Charlie and George say she still doesn't have what it takes to beat Barack. Not enough delegates, not enough popular vote and no money. George says Hillary must now win both Indiana and N. Carolina.

What does she have to do for these people to see the light?

: Dems need to fiddle with the map (5.00 / 1) (#132)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:16:45 PM EST

http://www.270towin.com/
and see that Obama can't beat McCain if he loses Penn and Ohio and any single NE state.

Parent

KO keeps trying to spin it as (5.00 / 2) (#22)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:57:57 PM EST

bad for Hillary. I guess I am not surprised.

Look at the suburban Philly counties (5.00 / 1) (#23)
by Makarov on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:02 PM EST

They're where the margin will be determined. The exits say he's won the philly burbs, but I'm skeptical. I guess we'll know in an hour or two.

FYI: PA official returns (5.00 / 2) (#30)
by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:55 PM EST

can be found here.

I think I can safely say (5.00 / 8) (#32)
by magisterludi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:03 PM EST

Jeralyn and BTD have kept a lot of us from going stark ravin' the last few weeks and months. Many thanks.

CNN's coverage (5.00 / 2) (#37)
by nowar99 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:37 PM EST

Wonder what CNN is waiting for... seems to be Hillary's victory everywhere else. I guess that this is one way to keep junkies dialed in to their network...

: Less fun to play with the map (none / 0) (#48)
by lilburro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:51 PM EST

if they call it...

Parent

Fox thinks about Clinton by 10 at least (5.00 / 3) (#39)
by Salt on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:48 PM EST

i'm thinking (5.00 / 2) (#42)
by Turkana on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:05 PM EST

that if that philly margin doesn't expand, that 7 point victory margin will- maybe by quite a bit.

: Hard to know which precincts are coming in (5.00 / 2) (#52)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:01:07 PM EST

first. Frankly, it's usually the white ones. Still, Obama should be doing better with so many votes counted in Philly.

Parent

Landslide (5.00 / 1) (#45)
by IKE on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:28 PM EST

Can you say landslide, that's what I see

Clinton by 10 (5.00 / 1) (#49)
by otherlisa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:55 PM EST

is my guestimate.

: Clinton by 10 is near the margin for calling it (5.00 / 1) (#116)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:12:53 PM EST

a big win for Hillary, IMO.

Parent

52-48 is not a great result for Obama (5.00 / 2) (#53)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:01:16 PM EST

in Philly, is it?
I saw on CNN a while ago that 58% of late deciders chose Hillary. That is typical, right?

Yes - (5.00 / 2) (#62)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:27 PM EST

they said that is her typical late decider lead.

Parent

Don't underestimate... (5.00 / 2) (#89)
by dws3665 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:07:11 PM EST

the fact that Nutter and his machine are pro-Hillary. We'll need to wait and see what the final numbers are, obviously, but if it's closer than predicted, it could be due to Nutter's influence.

Parent

: I hope the machine worked for her (5.00 / 1) (#159)
by Redstar on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:21 PM EST

Love listening to Terry McAuliffe (on CNN right now). He's so damn peppy.

Parent

it's atrocious (none / 0) (#72)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:28 PM EST

I expect his margin to go way up there, or he gets blown out.

Parent

No... (none / 0) (#77)
by Dawn Davenport on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:05:43 PM EST

...John King said Obama's campaign was counting on 80 percent or more.

Parent

: My "no" answer... (none / 0) (#84)
by Dawn Davenport on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:06:36 PM EST

...was in response to the Philly results question.

Parent
: still to early to tell about Philly... (none / 0) (#188)
by Leisa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:30:46 PM EST

Hopefully the late deciders were late in casting their votes ;)

Parent

They keep talking about Obama's money (5.00 / 3) (#59)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:02:29 PM EST

advantage in Indiana. Does that matter that much if she wins by 7 or more here? Seems like the money is only effective up to a point.

But I'm glad MSNBC keeps telling people how bad she needs money. I wonder if viewers are taking this as a pledge drive and calling in.

: Money is important and she needs some (5.00 / 2) (#78)
by goldberry on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:05:47 PM EST

She has to pay staffers and TV ads and lawn signs and all kinds of stuff. He outspent her by 3:1 but she is still in need of money. So, send her a few if you have it.

Parent
: Big Obama money in Oregon (5.00 / 1) (#100)
by caseyOR on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:49 PM EST

Cannot turn on the teevee without getting assaulted by Obama ads. Nothing from Hillary, and I am kind of glad. Ads have been all Obama all the time for over a week. Our primary is May 20! I can't stand it! I may be forced to give up television if Obama keeps this up.

Parent

Counties (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by DaveOinSF on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:10 PM EST

Coutnies with significant numbers already in:

Warren (42% reporting) - 70-30 for Hillary
Luzerne (31% in) - 75-25 for Hillary

Once the results stop being so Philly-centric, this will be a rout.

Will vote for McCain (5.00 / 1) (#63)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:28 PM EST

Here we go:

Clinton supporters.. 26% will vote McCain; 19% will stay home... 45%

Obama supporters... 17% will vote McCain; 12% will stay home... 29%

Based on primary results, Clinton survives even with a 20% increase in Repub turnout.

Based on primary results, Obama even without losing any independents to McCain nor an increase in Repub turnout.

: Please realize that many Republican women (5.00 / 1) (#213)
by Leisa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:40:29 PM EST

will vote for Hill in the GE!!! She will trounce McCain. Obama has too many issues that have yet to be exploited.
I do not care if he claims that Hillary has thrown the whole kitchen at him... I think she has just tried to respond in kind without bringing in the real dirt.
She kind of reminds me of my daughter trying to deal with her younger brother's taunts. He is sneaky and gets away with them because her response is more high profile (and usually correct!)
Go Hillary! Get a double to pop the bubble!

Parent
: Scary and sad. (none / 0) (#222)
by eleanora on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:44:41 PM EST

But I think we'll all come together once we figure out the ticket. I was so mad over Obama's health care ads last night I was ready to stay home, but I'd already calmed down even before her win in PA and was thinking straight again. I hope most lifelong Dems will do the same.

Parent

If Obama (5.00 / 1) (#64)
by Ga6thDem on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:33 PM EST

is only winning by a few points in Philly, he's in big trouble.

God. KO is asking Timmeh (5.00 / 1) (#73)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:41 PM EST

what will happen if the margin is exactly like it is now - 4%.

Funny though - he told them to stop the Clinton telethon. Guess he got the same impression I got from his own coverage.

Lets all send Hillary $$$$$$$$ (5.00 / 3) (#74)
by Mrwirez on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:04:51 PM EST

I just sent another $100.00.
I predicted 11-15% after I voted today I think she will hit about 12 when its over. Hopefully BHO is out of super delegates, and she can pick up the 6 in PA that did not commit......

: I'll give her $10 for every %age pt. (5.00 / 3) (#120)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:13:44 PM EST

Parent
: I'm giving her $20 (5.00 / 2) (#177)
by angie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:27:24 PM EST

for every point she wins over Obama in PA -- if she wins by 20, I will be maxed out for the primary, and then I will die happy.

Parent

Wooo!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#82)
by lansing quaker on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:06:14 PM EST

CNN.com just called it for HILLARY!!!!

Time to go buy that champagne!!

Double Digit Defeat? (5.00 / 2) (#86)
by Decal on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:06:57 PM EST

Rachel Maddow said all the millions Obama spent in PA was well worth it because it "broke Hillary Clinton's bank". Pat Buchanan countered that the money went down the chute as all it got Obama was "a double digit defeat"!. Hmm. How does he know?

That's General Haig's (5.00 / 1) (#157)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:21:43 PM EST

defense of his Somme battles.

Obama is not that good a candidate. He'll lose many of the battle ground states.

Parent

Old Reagan strategy... (none / 0) (#119)
by white n az on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:13:28 PM EST

arms race that broke communist Russia

Parent

: Nope (none / 0) (#143)
by lorelynn on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:18:28 PM EST

The Soviets only increased their defense spending by a point or two for one year, IIRC. We, however, went nuts with military spending. Mostly, that's a myth created to explain Reagan's massive deficit.

Parent

I have a new channel changing rule (5.00 / 3) (#93)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:08:26 PM EST

It used to be commercials, now it is whenever Timmeh opens his pie hole.

Yeah Hillary! (5.00 / 3) (#97)
by heineken1717 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:11 PM EST

Hilarious that Obama can't win one big state outside of his home. Go Hillary go!!!!!

Hey, Barack won Alaska, biggest state in the union (5.00 / 3) (#134)
by caseyOR on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:17:15 PM EST

Parent

If you can not win FL, MI, PA ,OH,NY,NJ (none / 0) (#241)
by Mrwirez on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:54:14 PM EST

or California..............You ain't winnin' JACK in November. If I were a superD I would be calling the Obama camp and work a deal

Parent

: Accept a VP position (none / 0) (#249)
by Mrwirez on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:57:00 PM EST

Parent

TL kid! (5.00 / 1) (#102)
by lilburro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:09:54 PM EST

Wow Jeralyn wasn't kidding about corn on the cob.

Here in the eastern time zone, we are in white wine zone.

URGGGHH I wish I was at that Philly rally!

Chiming in 12 time zones away from PA... (5.00 / 5) (#107)
by OrangeFur on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:11:12 PM EST

Great news for this Hillary supporter!

For months now, the good people of Pennsylvania have been told that it's over, that Obama has won, that it doesn't matter what they do. Their job was to ratify Obama's inevitable nomination, finally end Hillary's campaign, and move on.

Well, not so fast.

Go and tell Ted Kennedy. Go and tell Pat Leahy. Go and tell Donna Brazile. Go and tell Nancy Pelosi. Go and tell Markos, Josh Marshall, Matt Yglesias, Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann.

Hillary Clinton is still going, and so are we. Universal health care hasn't breathed its last yet.

CNN Dukakis (5.00 / 3) (#121)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:14:43 PM EST

John on CNN with map.... showing the votes with colors and pointing out that Obama will do a Dukakis in Penn. Watch the belts on the left and right of the map for the wins on the cities and those 'lunch bucket' 'Reagan Democrats'

WOOHOO 10% in 10 pts!!!! (ok, I know it's not going to end there, but it's great to look at)

Interesting to see them (5.00 / 1) (#130)
by lilburro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:16:41 PM EST

seriously consider Obama Dukakis-esque...without a pundit immediately shouting them down.

An enjoyable moment for me.

Parent

Yes! Finally they are discussing the problem ... (5.00 / 3) (#152)
by cymro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:20:31 PM EST

... with Obama's candidacy. This is the first time I have seen this analysis on TV.

Can this possibly be a sign of a new level of realism in the media's analysis of what is happening in this primary?

Parent

: Ha! Ha! No! (5.00 / 1) (#172)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:25:28 PM EST

You find that discussion by Joe on MSNBC. It is talked down elsewhere.

Parent
: That would sure make it a lot easier (none / 0) (#256)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:03:00 PM EST

for the SDs to pick Hillary. I hope the media finally starts socializing that idea.

Parent

Indiana a must win for Obama (5.00 / 4) (#129)
by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:16:30 PM EST

Harold Ford on MSNBC just said his message to Obama is he must win Indiana to have a chance at the nomination. He said earlier today that if Hillary wins by 8% or more, the SD's must rethink their current position. Wow, Harold is a realist. Stunning.

WOW other than the GE Obama networks (5.00 / 3) (#138)
by Salt on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:17:30 PM EST

Clinton is receiving fair coverage FINALLY, her comment today on close the deal and the heat in the kitchen will end up being GOLD.

: And Donna Brazile actually praised (none / 0) (#260)
by BlueMerlin on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:09:14 PM EST

Bill Clinton's civil rights record. I nearly fainted! Maybe the CNN pundits have finally gotten the memo.

Parent

I still think (5.00 / 1) (#144)
by wasabi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:18:31 PM EST

I still think that a Clinton/Obama ticket wins in the fall.

MSNBC Joe and Harold (5.00 / 1) (#147)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:19:20 PM EST

Great discussion on MSNBC... Clinton, roll up sleeves, get in with voters, you want to discuss issues, I'll discuss issues, challenge Obama to a debate once a week, outspent 4 to 1 and still won, what's wrong with that guy, Obama can have all the money in the world but unless he does what you (Harold) did, go and roll-up his sleeves and gets the blue collar workers, he's not going to put Clinton away.

Harold: Obama advantage in IN, he's got to hold on to it. Don't complain about running against Clinton's, put on your armor and run.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS GUY? (5.00 / 4) (#148)
by TalkRight on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:19:38 PM EST

Finally Joe Scarborough nailing Barrack Obama.. he got all the money.. all the money.. all the advantage.. STILL he can't win.. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS GUY?

Aww.. the Exit Polls scared some (5.00 / 3) (#150)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:20:05 PM EST

Kossacks. Mommy, please tell me it's going to be ok!

: I just read some of the comments.. (none / 0) (#254)
by FlaDemFem on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:58:45 PM EST

and I am reminded why I don't post there anymore. Apparently, her margin of victory is comprised of racists and bowlers. And people on food stamps. I got mad and left. I used to live in PA, and have cousins there. DKos is insulting to the hard-working people of PA. Oh, and they are also saying that she ran her campaign into debt, which means she will be a deficit increasing President. I really enjoy surreal logic, but not when applied to real life problems. Those people at DKos really need to get a grip!! I don't think I will be going back unless they get fully behind Hillary when she gets the nomination. DKos has degenerated into a ship of fools.

Parent

Obama's new argument (5.00 / 3) (#154)
by angie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:20:59 PM EST

is that when you look at OH & PA you will see that he "cut into her lead" with white men.

: That is not good news (none / 0) (#219)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:42:41 PM EST

I was looking more for inroads in to each others demographics rather than a point spread. I wanted to see her to better with white men.
Fox said she did better with white men. Obama got men 53/46 overall, but Clinton got white men 53/46. ?? I guess it depends on who is reporting.

Parent

Anyone brave enough to venture to the badlands? (5.00 / 2) (#158)
by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:21 PM EST

And see what is going on at DK? I am fearing a thermonuclear meltdown. But I can't go there, I can't, no no no no no....

: Protected by my 3 digit UID (5.00 / 1) (#242)
by clio on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:54:24 PM EST

I ventured onto Orange turf for the first time in weeks. Mood ranges from despair:
God, he is just getting shalacked [sic] (0+ / 1-)
I wonder when kos will admit that we as a party need to take another look at Hillary.

(note the troll rating of that comment)
to studied nonchalance:
Calm down (1+ / 0-)
We weren't going to win this one. When the dust settles all will be fine.
"I shall never surrender or retreat." --Lieutenant Colonel William Barret Travis
to defiance:
This baby is over (2+ / 0-)
she had to win by more than a mere 10 and it will be single digits. Super delegates will have n easy decision now after a 30 point win on NC.
Feminism is to Hillary what "the troops" are to Bush.
There's even an occasional dip into the media misogyny:
Chris and Tim tell it like it is (3+ / 0-)
The Clintons and Terry McAuliffe are just looking for whatever metric gives her a path to the nomination, "mulligan after mulligan after mulligan," says Chris.
And Chris points out that the women who support Hillary have probably been hurt over the years by men who move the goalposts on them. Quite a point to be making, and thanks to Tim, as a woman who's had them moved.
But I'm still for Obama.
Place is hopping. It's clear that many there have never considered that Obama couldn't win on preciousness alone. The general election campaign will be a real eye-opener for them.
Now I've done my bit for your curiosity. Going to take a shower.

Parent
: "Is the big bad monster dead?" (none / 0) (#253)
by eleanora on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:58:19 PM EST

was a poll on the first diary I clicked over there. Andrea Mitchell was stringing the Obama voters on, but you'll be pleased to hear HRC isn't dead yet, 58% to 42%. I figure life is too short to read any more.

Parent

I love TL kid (5.00 / 2) (#160)
by honora on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:24 PM EST

Free TL kid!! Why do we not hear from him/her more often??

: TL Kid (none / 0) (#227)
by chrisvee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:47:33 PM EST

I think TL Kid should be a guest blogger for an upcoming state.

Parent

my take on MSNBC boys (5.00 / 2) (#161)
by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:27 PM EST

is that they're saying pigs are chickens and ducks are dogs, I'm saying it louder so I'm right. Yep, they make no sense. :-)

: and of course TM (none / 0) (#181)
by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:28:31 PM EST

on "pigs are chickens and ducks are dogs" bit. :-)

Parent

GROUP HUG FOR HILLARY!!!!! (5.00 / 4) (#162)
by Angel on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:34 PM EST

Yes, she can! Yes, she will!

This is why... (5.00 / 1) (#165)
by Mrwirez on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:56 PM EST

Chris Dodd, and all those Obamabots wanted her to drop out. Indiana, WV, Kentucky

WAIT A MINUTE!!!! (5.00 / 1) (#167)
by Kathy on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:23:13 PM EST

Did we find out how the corn was cooked--on the grill, and if so, for how long and with what spices?

Early Bucks county results (5.00 / 1) (#171)
by Makarov on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:25:06 PM EST

have Hillary killing him:
http://www.buckscountyelections.org/ElectionSummary.aspx?id=4

Falls and Middletown Townships are more white collar than blue collar, with conventional wisdom being Obama should be doing better than losing by 30%. I was suspicious the exits for philly burbs were wrong, and the early count shows I'm right.

Per Fox Obama has problem (5.00 / 2) (#183)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:29:12 PM EST

with outlying areas. He is only taking Philly (50% AA) 55/45. Outlying 69/31, 68/32 best 60/40. These are culturally conservative (McCain). Clinton winning the Reagan Dems in Casey's territory (Allegheny) nearly 70/30.

Karl Rove (none / 0) (#190)
by chrisvee on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:32:24 PM EST

says that Obama is barely winning Montgomery County (just by a couple of percentage points).

Forgive me for quoting him. I'm reduced to watching Fox because it's the only station that is providing substantive information about the results instead of freaking out about Hillary being broke or why her margin isn't big enough to matter, etc.

Parent

: I watch Fox too (none / 0) (#237)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:51:46 PM EST

Several of us have admitted our shame and are no longer embarrassed that we have been forced to sink so low.

Parent
: I know I'm going to Hallifax (none / 0) (#250)
by angie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:57:14 PM EST

but I'm watching Fox too -- my mom has always watched it because she believes (and I quote) "It's good to know what your enemy is thinking" -- but during this race, with all the kool aid being consumed on the other channels, I find Fox less offensive -- at least they hate them both equally. As a result, I've kind of gotten immune to Karl Rove and actually find he makes sense on occasion. But, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Parent

Excellent.. (5.00 / 2) (#189)
by TalkRight on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:31:57 PM EST

all cable channels now questioning why Obama cannot win the blue collar PA with every thing going for him.. money, arguments, likability. .. he just can't close in.. he cannot win FL, Ohio, PA that we need to win in the fall..

: John King (none / 0) (#200)
by TalkRight on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:36:03 PM EST

Obama like in 4th quarter with a lead but OUT OF GASS !!!

Parent

Obama's First Run as a National Candidate (5.00 / 3) (#191)
by BDB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:32:39 PM EST

Thank goodness he won't be running against a nationally known and experienced candidate this Fall.

LOL at Casey comment: (5.00 / 1) (#193)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:33:17 PM EST

sounds like he's about ready to switch to Hillary.

Yeah, that was a great argument (none / 0) (#199)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:35:56 PM EST

Let's send the novice into the GE

Parent

The reality musty be sinking in. (none / 0) (#201)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:36:17 PM EST

Penn pols know they are more or less teh Democratic front line.

Kerry won by 2%.

If Clinton wins all the Demographics she's projected to win Casety knows that Penn is McCain land if our nominee is Obama.

Parent

: The question is whether they have the guys (none / 0) (#214)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:40:31 PM EST

to say " hillary must be the nominee", even if Obama leads in delegates with a slim popular vote lead.
I wouldn't bet on it. Democrats are so used to losing the White House, this is old hat.

Parent

Hell yeah! (5.00 / 2) (#196)
by Universal on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:35:39 PM EST

Fantastic! I will be donating more tonight after doing so yesterday.

I have put up my first post on Clinton's win tonight, contextualizing it in terms of the larger nomination contest and giving some idea of what Clinton had to overcome in order to get this Rocky-like victory:

http://www.villarrealsports.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=452

North Carolina, a "Black Belt" state, is meaningless as it will not be won by Dems in the general election and it over-represents the African-American vote as compared to both the total balance of the state's electorate and the even more important national electorate. The African-American vote as part of the national electorate is only 11-12%. That's it. In the Democratic Party, the AA vote is around 25-30%, and in states like South Carolina (where the Obama race-baiting paid off) it is more like 55%. This has allowed Obama to get pretty but statistically irrelevant wins as concerns the general election.

Barack Obama is a `niche' candidate who has gamed the caucus system and played the white guilt card to the hilt. You are now seeing the unraveling of a strawman, as we have tried to tell many of the Kool-Aid drinkers.

Superdelegates, it is time to do what you were created to do: Give us Dems -- those who have voted for Clinton over Obama by a majority -- a chance in November. Choose Hillary Clinton, or leave us with the second coming of George McGovern and a staggering defeat in November.

: That was a great post, Paul. (none / 0) (#216)
by BrandingIron on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:41:04 PM EST

Tell it like it is!

This is where our party's "leaders" and people like Brazile, Kennedy, Kerry, Leahy, Sharpton, Wilder and other has-beens and losers are leading us. All because of their jealousy over the one family who has actually won the White House in the last 28 years: The Clintons.
Thank God for Pennsylvania. And Ohio. And Texas.

For real. Fore very, very real.

Parent
: I agree with you but (none / 0) (#218)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:41:59 PM EST

I think it is a very daunting task to expect anyone to make those arguments on national TV. That is why I think the SDs are going to stick with Obama. There is no politically correct (and I use the term literally) way for them to make those arguments to their constituents. They need even worse meltdown incidents than Wright and Bittergate to hide behind.

Parent

McCaskill now -- MO Blue, watching (5.00 / 1) (#202)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:37:19 PM EST

her make a fool of herself, using that dumb line that Obama did great because he started out 20 points behind and has rilly, rilly closed it up?

This far in the tank for a candidate can drag her down to the bottom of the tank, drowning her ability to be taken seriously as someone with political smarts to call it as it is.

Ye gods, now she's talking about pot roast and potatoes, and that's Obama, just one of the people. Uh, no, he's a guy who goes for waffles. :-)

: Oh, man (none / 0) (#225)
by stillife on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:47:20 PM EST

I so regret that I cheered on her victory in 2006.

Parent

cnn's exit poll (5.00 / 1) (#211)
by Turkana on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:39:25 PM EST

just added a point to the women, in gender ratio.

I am 100% convinced (5.00 / 3) (#215)
by txpolitico67 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:40:41 PM EST

that the Obama supporters are in a parallel universe. Daily Kos is bitter that Terry McAuliffe is saying that Clinton wins the states that matter: OH, FL, MI and now PA.

I guess they think that MS, AL, SC, WY and UT will be going blue this November.

Unbelievably clueless lot. One post also said that HRC supporters will come in droves to BHO when he is the nominee.

Guess again.

Brazile is back (5.00 / 1) (#217)
by lilburro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:41:29 PM EST

she's under the impression Obama...won?

It's a good night to be a Clinton supporter and while watching CNN, I think. The Clinton POV is getting a lot of play.

And yes, Donna, we know you don't want to go back to MI.

only 50% of Clinton supporter to vote for Obama (5.00 / 3) (#221)
by TalkRight on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:43:46 PM EST

70% of Obama supporter to voter for Clinton..

KO for the first time nails Obama: The starting point of this civil war: WHEN OBAMA SAID, he can get Hillary's voter, but She cannot get his.

Thanks you Keith for that rare acknowledgment.

: Really? (none / 0) (#223)
by stillife on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:46:07 PM EST

I'm amazed! KO is taking on Obama?

Parent
: Wow. Kudos to KO for that (none / 0) (#231)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:48:29 PM EST

Parent
: small admission. (none / 0) (#245)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:55:01 PM EST

Parent

Clinton Beats Obama in Pennsylvania (5.00 / 1) (#224)
by Salt on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:46:52 PM EST

NYT headline .....not just win but beats!

CNN (5.00 / 1) (#247)
by DaveOinSF on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:56:32 PM EST

I've heard "Michael Dukakis" mentioned several times tonight when talking about Barack Obama on CNN. I think people are starting to get it.

New thread. (5.00 / 1) (#248)
by Emma on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:56:50 PM EST

yes, new live thread.

John King on CNN calls it a "thumping" by HRC.

Fox? (2.66 / 3) (#16)
by Spike on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:57 PM EST

Why do Clinton supporters watch Fox?

Because every other (5.00 / 3) (#31)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:58 PM EST

cable channel is embarrassingly biased in favor of Obama. If you haven't noticed ....

Parent

Cause we (5.00 / 2) (#33)
by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:05 PM EST

are crypto fascists...we are right winger...did you not hear that?

Parent

Because hating both candidates equally (5.00 / 3) (#40)
by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:50 PM EST

They are as close to fair as we can find (someone else pointed this out, I am just repeating).

Parent

: yes this is why they are fair (5.00 / 1) (#92)
by Redstar on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:08:06 PM EST

i agree. i mean they're talking about mccain right now, in the middle of this!! Lame.

Parent

Maybe because.. (5.00 / 3) (#41)
by daria g on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:01 PM EST

they despise all our candidates equally so you know what you're in for? :) I usually watch the blogs watching Fox so I don't have to, though.

Parent

Why not? (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by pie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:30 PM EST

I'm not watching. Others are paid to do that.

:-)

Parent

Because they hate all Dems (5.00 / 2) (#47)
by RalphB on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:41 PM EST

the same, so they are basically fair. Not too much spin for Obama or Clinton.

Frankly, I like Karl Rove's analysis. Hate the man, but he's smart.

Parent

: It'sa shame he didn't become a UN envoy. (5.00 / 1) (#56)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:01:54 PM EST

And avoid the ratf***ing stuff. He could have put his smarts to good use.

Parent
: We'll see how smart (5.00 / 1) (#131)
by pie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:16:43 PM EST

Rove is if he avoids indictments and jail time.
He's got a lot to answer for.

Parent

They are equally.... (5.00 / 2) (#50)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:56 PM EST

...unfair to both candidates.

So they, by comparison look objective.

Parent

Thanks to All (3.00 / 1) (#110)
by Spike on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:11:52 PM EST

I can understand Clinton supporters not watching MSNBC. Matthews is repulsive. But I don't see that much bias on CNN. I just can't turn the dial to Fox.

Parent

: I can name that bias in two words: (5.00 / 3) (#145)
by dws3665 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:18:54 PM EST

Donna Brazile.

Parent

Because we're (5.00 / 2) (#57)
by leis on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:01:57 PM EST

low information voters.

Parent

: You funny. (5.00 / 2) (#139)
by pie on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:18:01 PM EST

Parent

If I even knew what number it was on my TV (5.00 / 1) (#146)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:19:14 PM EST

maybe I would watch it too.

Parent

Because (none / 0) (#239)
by honora on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:53:29 PM EST

we are smart enough to know that MSNBC and CNN are so biased that no truth gets through. On Fox, on the internet ( I do not get cable) they hate all Democrats equally.

Parent

Woo! (none / 0) (#2)
by lansing quaker on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:54:25 PM EST

Too premature to buy a bottle of Champagne and crack it for my PA party?

p.s. Still love CNN.com. Reggie + Melissa = <3

Are you absolutely sure? (none / 0) (#6)
by MichaelGale on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:55:10 PM EST

at least they waited (none / 0) (#7)
by boredmpa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:55:38 PM EST

at least they waited for the polls to close. not that it matters since they've been calling it with polls and pols for days.

Is Matthews getting one of those... (none / 0) (#11)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:56:24 PM EST

...trickles down his leg?

Norah looks disgusted.

: I'd be disgusted, too (none / 0) (#80)
by magisterludi on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:05:57 PM EST

if Tweety had a "trickle down his leg" sitting next me. Where are his manners?

Parent

I would love a screen shot of (none / 0) (#17)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:57:11 PM EST

one of the talking heads from MSNBC going all Edvard Munch on us---like Rachel Maddow did with Joe S. the other day.

If HRC wins by less than 10% (7% like Fox says) (none / 0) (#18)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:57:35 PM EST

will the media, the DNC (Brazile and company) + Obama camp burn HRC at the stake? Will they be sooo
ugly?

Better question: what do you think does this mean in the Super-Delegates minds?

Harold Ford said 8% is (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:59:06 PM EST

the point at which SDs will worry about obama and wonder why he can't close the deal.

Parent

Interesting, any (none / 0) (#61)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:20 PM EST

further idea as to why 8%? Probably b/c is beong any statistical error say come GE....But then 6% would be enough as well to worry.

Thanks.

Parent

: meant "beyond" (sorry) (none / 0) (#68)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:52 PM EST

Parent

Absentee question (none / 0) (#20)
by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:57:51 PM EST

Did many vote before the bittergate?

: A few, I'm sure (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:00:13 PM EST

I think I did. Still, there aren't that many absentee voters in comparison to election day voters in PA, so it wouldn't be a big issue.

Parent

CNN (none / 0) (#26)
by Lil on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 07:58:13 PM EST

Not calling it yet

Switched Republicans (none / 0) (#65)
by Stellaaa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:03:42 PM EST

Wondering what they will do?

money (none / 0) (#76)
by boredmpa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:05:11 PM EST

The problem with the focus on money is that we are foolishly wasting all our cash and volunteering on candidates and not building issue networks that last through an election cycle.

These millions spent on ads are perverse, and being able to bankrupt another highly competitive candidate into loss is extremely sad for democracy.

I also hate to escalate the arms race (none / 0) (#88)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:07:04 PM EST

Parent

: She has to pay for a lot more than ads. (5.00 / 2) (#136)
by derridog on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:17:20 PM EST

Obama still has $41 million and she only has about 8 million. Not having enough money could force her out even if she still can win. So cough it up, even if it's just a little bit. It all adds up.

Parent

4 pts at 6% (none / 0) (#79)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:05:54 PM EST

Noooooooo... Noooooo.... 4 friggin' pts.

Fox is discussing the fact that Obama won't debate. Fox says Clinton is pushing the debate, Obama set the date, I'll be there and may take this to a tv ad. Clinton questioning how tough to be on this, 'maybe you're not as strong as you appear.'

I heard this morning on NPR (none / 0) (#81)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:06:01 PM EST

that 160,000 voters changed registration to Dem (didn't say if from Indep. & Reps. or what) sinc eit was a closed primary. Any reliable info. as to how these "new-born" democrats (?) voted?

My co-worker from Bucks County, for one, (5.00 / 1) (#151)
by Mshepnj on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:20:31 PM EST

was an Independent. She declared as a Democrat in order to vote for Hillary. This was the first primary she ever voted in.

Parent

: Cool !!! Kudos to your co-worker!! (none / 0) (#261)
by Andy08 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:12:41 PM EST

Parent

CNN CALLS IT (none / 0) (#90)
by DaveOinSF on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:07:13 PM EST

Confused (none / 0) (#103)
by gaf on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:10:01 PM EST

The CNN election page also shows counting happening for the Republican primaries. McCain seems to be heading for blowout victory. Even Ron Paul seems to be around.

Whats gives? Why are they evening having primaries?

what do you mean? (5.00 / 1) (#123)
by dws3665 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:15:05 PM EST

They have to have someone to send to the convention. The primaries go on, even after the nominee is decided. They just don't matter too much.

Parent

: Tx (none / 0) (#163)
by gaf on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:22:42 PM EST

Didn't know that. I assumed that all 100% of delegates go to the nominee.
If it doesn't matter, why are they wasting money on it.

Parent

Poor McCain! (none / 0) (#133)
by mg7505 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:17:13 PM EST

Note that Huckabee is getting 11%, and Ron Paul 16%! McCain can't even win all the REPUBLICAN votes after he's already won the nomination! Maybe this fall won't just be a one-way street of disaffected Dems voting Repubican... maybe the disaffected Repubs will vote Dem.

I can't believe that in Crawford County, McCain/Paul/Huckabee are tied.

Parent

: nah (none / 0) (#168)
by Salo on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:23:13 PM EST

That'sa fluke of turn out. There's no reason to bother with voting GOP for the primary.
That's like saying the Dean vote in Vermont would thow it for Kerry.

Parent

PA also elects delegates, I read (none / 0) (#140)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:18:02 PM EST

with the balloting today.

Parent

what are those guys on MSNBC doing? (none / 0) (#106)
by TalkRight on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:10:37 PM EST

KO making fun ... Tim, She has now 8% margin .. is that enough for her.. hahaha..

: haha KO is just dying (5.00 / 1) (#155)
by heineken1717 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:21:23 PM EST

love to see it

Parent

With 8% counted she is up approx 12K votes... (none / 0) (#118)
by smott on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:13:18 PM EST

Extrapolate that out to 100% of the vote and she picks up approx 150K against the popular vote...

I was hoping for a lot more than that....

: Right, but where are the numbers from (none / 0) (#122)
by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:15:05 PM EST

Don't forget that, it may make a big difference by the end of the evening.

Parent

Harold Ford Jr is so trying to have it both ways. (none / 0) (#128)
by Maria Garcia on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:16:24 PM EST

well, that's probably okay (none / 0) (#178)
by dws3665 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:27:57 PM EST

It's certainly better than putting his thumb on the scale for Obama like some other "neutral" pundits (yes, I'm looking at you, DB). Dem pundits should be pointing out how good both our candidates are, and the importance of seeing the process through. It's not like EITHER candidate can "win" outright at this point.

(Please note: This is not a love note to Harold Ford. It's just nice to see a Dem pundit not debase themselves.)

Parent

Agree, on the whole. (none / 0) (#197)
by jawbone on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:35:45 PM EST

Seemed Joe S. was trying to get him diss one of them. But then they got into a kind of real pols' discussion of what it takes to win. Interesting.

Parent

: Very interesting---but I like Harold (none / 0) (#244)
by lookoverthere on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:54:56 PM EST

Parent

Holy Cow! (none / 0) (#156)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:21:29 PM EST

: Can you imagine? (none / 0) (#198)
by phat on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:35:56 PM EST

Harry Carey doing election coverage?

Parent

BTD where do you get your (none / 0) (#173)
by TruthMatters on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:25:53 PM EST

numbers from?

Mattheews, Russert, and KO (none / 0) (#179)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:28:05 PM EST

mad about Hillary moving the goal posts. At least KO acknowledged it might be seen as a strength.

Rachel, you are allowed to make 2 arguments (none / 0) (#182)
by ruffian on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:29:10 PM EST

in your favor.

Casey (none / 0) (#192)
by lilburro on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:32:45 PM EST

That's the best he can do? "He's never done this before!" Wow. What a horrible argument.

If Obama loses any of his major (none / 0) (#195)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:34:39 PM EST

SD endorsers after tonight, he'd be in serious trouble. Any idea who might be a waverer?

Parent

I know one, I suspect, who is wavering (5.00 / 1) (#203)
by phat on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:37:43 PM EST

She'll be announcing tomorrow.

I'd hate to be in her shoes right now.

Parent

Who? McCaskill? (none / 0) (#209)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:39:09 PM EST

Parent

I'll tell you tomorrow (none / 0) (#230)
by phat on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:48:00 PM EST

She hasn't endorsed yet.

Parent

Oh ok.. I was talking about the possibility (none / 0) (#234)
by MarkL on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:49:34 PM EST

of a switch.
You're not in WA state by chance, are you?

Parent

: No (none / 0) (#252)
by phat on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:58:12 PM EST

Not WA.

Parent

Popular vote nbrs people...focus... (none / 0) (#194)
by smott on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:34:21 PM EST

HRC's only chance is to get close/surpass in the pop vote...I sincerely doubt the Supes will give it to her if she's behind in both...

So...how much is she going to narrow the pop margin tonight?....

: She's less than 100,000 behind (none / 0) (#210)
by Cream City on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:39:11 PM EST

if FL and MI are included, per RealClearPolitics.com. She could close up that tonight, perhaps. And that would be a telling argument for smart super-d's who know that FL and MI will count in November.
Donna Brazile, of course, will not be impressed by that argument.

Parent

Another poll using Allegheny County (none / 0) (#205)
by ding7777 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:37:51 PM EST

as a bellweather because it mirrored the State in 1998 and 200 elections.

A Suffolk University survey released today has
Hillary at 52 percent to Obama's 40 percent in polling conducted Sunday and Monday in Allegheny County around Pittsburgh.

appropriate Renaissance song (none / 0) (#206)
by DandyTIger on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:37:57 PM EST

since this is in PA, and the lead singer of one of my favorite 70's groups, Renaissance, Annie Haslam now lives in Bucks County in PA, take a listen to Carpet of the Sun. In addition to Annie's increadible 5+ octave voice, the bass player, Jon Camp is fantastic. Highly recommended group.

It looks like (none / 0) (#208)
by Matt v on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:38:47 PM EST

Barry from Chicago is beating a retreat. Didn't even wait for the first returns, I understand.

thank you (none / 0) (#220)
by vigkat on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:43:42 PM EST

for the live blogging and for the civil nature of the discourse. The only place I would want to be tonight, watching these results.

Everyone check out CNN's map (none / 0) (#226)
by diplomatic on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:47:24 PM EST

It's looking better and better for Clinton....

Take a look at those PERCENTAGES all over the place. And closer than people thought in Philly!

And tons of votes yet to come in from her counties.... whoa.

: Stop it! Stop it! (none / 0) (#232)
by Marvin42 on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:48:48 PM EST

I am starting to hyperventilate! I need air!
The joy....the joy....

Parent

So, is that Philly # lower or higher than expected (none / 0) (#228)
by Teresa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:47:46 PM EST

She's running at least 10% better in Philly (none / 0) (#238)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:52:07 PM EST

than I expected.

Montgomery County still hasn't reported yet, which is annoying.

Parent

Is that a likely Obama county? n/t (none / 0) (#243)
by Teresa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:54:43 PM EST

Parent

Potentially (none / 0) (#255)
by andgarden on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:00:18 PM EST

Parent

: ah, I'll keep an eye on that one then. (none / 0) (#257)
by Teresa on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:03:44 PM EST

Parent

Why do they say they are undeclared? (none / 0) (#229)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:47:54 PM EST

Brad Miller D (NC) says 170 pledged delegate difference can't be overturned by superdeez. He doesn't care that Obama won't debate, there is debate fatigue. He will decide once his state (NC) has voted. hmmmmm I wonder who he might pick?

Fox thinks Hillary will win 54-46 (none / 0) (#233)
by stillife on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 08:49:28 PM EST

BTD's prediction come true!

Hannity: Huge night for Clinton (none / 0) (#259)
by waldenpond on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 09:06:13 PM EST

Come back kid. Santorum rocked and rolled over Obama. Voters just didn't like what Obama was serving. If Dems don't win Penn, they don't win. Obama is not going to run well against McCain.

I'm not listening to the other talking head.

Hannity: let me explain why this is big Ohio etc, big victory here outspent 3-1. he is not winning Reagan Dems, he can't close the deal. There is a new narrative here that is hurting him.

Other head: Educated is dominate wing of party. Republicans really want to run against Obama now, real weakness in that he can't win a big state.

WooHoo!

Another head: she is clobbering him.

She's (none / 0) (#262)
by sas on Tue Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04:39 PM EST

kicking his ass.

Go baby Go!

Despite being outspent 3 or 4 to 1 ahs poinds him.

Right now it's 10% and it will soon be more!!!!!!

Pennsylvania Primary Results: Live Blog Two | 258 comments (258 topical)

Pennsylvania Primary Results: Live Blog Two

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