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Obama Supports Second Chance for Michael Vick

By Jeralyn, Section Obama Administration
Posted on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 08:26:00 AM EST
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President Obama telephoned Philadelphia Eagles owner Jeffrey Lurie to compliment him on giving Michael Vick a second chance. According to Lurie, here's what Obama said:

"He said, 'So many people who serve time never get a fair second chance,...He said, 'It's never a level playing field for prisoners when they get out of jail.' And he was happy that we did something on such a national stage that showed our faith in giving someone a second chance after such a major downfall.''

What's interesting is this was not a media interview, but a call that Obama placed on his own initiative. He obviously feels strongly about it. That's good news.

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    Obama Supports Second Chance for Michael Vick | 85 comments (85 topical)

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    Seriously? (5.00 / 3) (#1)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 12:44:47 AM EST
    'It's never a level playing field for prisoners when they get out of jail.'

    Vick had a lot of support getting him back to the field from day one. Everything he (and his handlers) did was to get him back on the field asap. I wouldn't call that an un-level playing field . . . . just sayin'.

    When I first read this entry, I thought (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Peter G on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:42:08 AM EST
    the Washington Post had been punked by an item out of the Onion.  Especially when I read the "even playing field" line, as applying to a football performer (I can't bring myself to describe professional athletes as "playing").

    Parent
    I wonder how his former (none / 0) (#26)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 12:50:54 PM EST
    "business partners" are doing . . .

    Parent
    Mr. Vick's second chance was (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:00:23 AM EST
    a topic of discussion during Christmas dinner.  To my surprise, our hostess, who is a huge animal lover, but also very liberal, strongly supported Vick's return to the NFL.  

    Parent
    I was supporting his standing trial (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:19:47 AM EST
    for the actual killing of the dogs, which never happened. . . .

    I did kinda get into it with my niece's soon to be ex on the drive home. (Of course Vick has been scoring some mad fantasy points for him . . . ) He was all for giving Vick a break, until I described what he did to the dogs and then asked him if he could do that :)

    Parent

    Most people couldnt do what criminals have done... (none / 0) (#40)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:32:26 PM EST
    but isn't that why we have jails?  Not sure what someone is supposed to do after they get out of jail, other than use what job skills they have that dont involve crime.

    And since he's been out of jail he's donated, what, 1 million dollars to the Humane Society.. have you donated that much?  I know I havent.  He also speaks to kids about how bad his past actions where, something that he chooses to do since its not a court order.

    Now I don't even like football and I am in no way defending his past, but he does a lot of good things now, things that I'm pretty sure most people here havent done and dont have the money or the fame to do.  And I question his motivations for those good acts, but ultimately does that really matter?  I dont think the money he donated will be any less useful because of his intentions.

    Parent

    Most criminals don't mutilate animals (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by masslib on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:34:43 PM EST
    for sport.  

    This is a silly argument and exactly why Obama's position that second chances are hard to find despite your talents is completely false.  This society is less and less forgiving to ex-cons unless...unless they are marketably talented in which case second chances abound.  Then we have people saying things like "he does a lot of good things now, things that I'm pretty sure most people here havent done and don't have the money or the fame to do."  Well duh.  And, FYI, most ex-cons can't afford to pay for that kind of redemption.  I'm all for Mike Vick getting back to his career after paying his dues to society, but if Obama wanted to make an example of ex-cons given second chances he could have found much more relateable scenarios.

    Parent

    My comments... (none / 0) (#75)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:43:55 PM EST
    have nothing to do with anything Obama has said, or if they do its by mere coincidence.  Frankly I dont care what Obama has said on this issue.

    I was speaking directly to nycstray and in no way defending Obama.

    Parent

    Would that be 1 million to the HSUS or (none / 0) (#45)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:48:14 PM EST
    the money he was ordered by the court to pay for the rescue, medical and care of his remaining dogs for their lifetime? More on the HSUS and $$$$

    also, iirc, he said in a recent interview when he was whining about not being able to have a dog that he has done three public apps re dog fighting.

    there are prob plenty of jobs he could have gotten with his skills as a pro football player(/college grad?). Lots of former athletes out there in the working world . . .

    and I wouldn't give HSUS one cent. Hands on work with shelter and rescue animals, that I do. My 2 fosters are at the vet today getting s/n so they can move on to new homes. Their names happen to be Felony and Misdemeanor (aka Lil' Fella and Missy) who were brought in as orphan strays by the cops. It may not be a million bucks, but they are alive today . . .

    Parent

    So are youre implying... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:01:50 PM EST
    that donating a million dollars would has no beneficial impact for a charity?

    Also, whats the difference between his NFL job and any other job he could get?  Theyre all jobs and he'd make money, so what does it matter?  I say the more money he can make to donate to charities, the better.

    Parent

    Well, if he did donate 1 mil (none / 0) (#51)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:14:31 PM EST
    to the HSUS (not to be confused with his court ordered payment to those who cared for and continue to care for his dogs that lived and are NOT at the HSUS which does not shelter animals), here's how much actually goes to help the animals:
    It spends tens of millions every year supporting a staff of more than 700, lobbyists in all 50 states, and an $11 million executive pension plan. Yet during the past two years, HSUS shared less than 1 percent of its money with hands-on pet shelters.
    (from my prior link, bold mine)

    Yes, I guess technically, giving 1 mil to HSUS helps that charity . . .

    I haven't heard that Vick is planning on making millions so he can donate more to charities. Do you have some links that back that up, along with his HSUS donation?

    Parent

    This is always the problems with charities (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:39:24 PM EST
    Never knowing if the ones you never heard of are a scam, or if the ones you have heard of have gone corporate payola.....

    Parent
    If HSUS is corrupt and incompetent... (none / 0) (#57)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:31:37 PM EST
    thats not the fault of the donors.

    Now I will admit that I got the HSUS and court ordered monies confused, so I'm not sure how much he has donated to HSUS, just that he had donated.

    And I'm still not sure how having a different job would be any different than his current job.  What exactly is he supposed to do for a job and why can't it be part of the NFL?

    Parent

    Eagles donated 50 grand this year (none / 0) (#63)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:56:31 PM EST
    Vick hasn't donated at all (not sure he can). HSUS now says Vick should be able to get a puppy. Oy.

    I've been watching this from day one. Vick has always planned on going back to being a star QB. Before he turned himself in, before he went to jail etc. It was all worked out. If he had actually stood trial in VA for what he did to the dogs, he would still be in jail. I just can't buy his "reformed" act at this time (it's also a tad too scripted if you ever watch him). And I certainly don't agree that his "second chance" started out on an un-level playing field like all the others. Sorry, I just think he should have had to work a bit harder to "reform". As far as jobs go, coach, trainer, etc. Perhaps get creative with his skills and start up a biz. Lotta people are willing to forgive and forget (that star thing . . .), I'm sure he would have gotten by just fine.

    Parent

    Ok... (none / 0) (#65)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 05:15:51 PM EST
    so you don't think he got the full punishment he deserved.  I can understand that and part of me agrees.  

    My comments were more about dealing with the reality of him being a star QB.  I don't know for sure that he will donate to charity again in his lifetime, but I know that he donated to causes before he got arrested, mainly for inner city youth.  So since he has a history of donating I dont see why he wouldnt do so again.  And because neither you or I can change his current celebrity status, and because he has motivation to continue to donate to causes - again, regardless of intent - then I choose to look at the possible positive outcomes of his existence than lament what should have been.

    Parent

    "It was all worked out"? (none / 0) (#68)
    by ks on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 05:47:25 PM EST
    I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. This time last year, Vick was the 3rd string QB whose main job was to hold a clipboard and run the occasional wildcat play when he did get in the game. In fact, only reason that Vick is the starter now is because Kolb got hurt and Vick played so well replacing him that Reid had to stick with him even after Kolb recovered.

    The odds against him becoimg a regular qb again, much less a Star one and MVP candidate, were astronomical and the idea that all the things that happened (e,g, Kolb getting hurt, Mcnabb being traded, going to the Eagles, etc.) for him to be where he is right now were worked out, as you say, "Before he turned himself in, before he went to jail etc." is laughable.

    Parent

    His path getting back to the NFL (none / 0) (#73)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:37:38 PM EST
    obviously not the injury etc. Were you paying close attention back then? How many people go to jail while having a "team" behind them working to set their path back to their old life and work on their public "reform" presentation? Even turning himself over to jail early was part of the package to get back by the 2009 season.

    Parent
    I used to root for the Eagles. (none / 0) (#23)
    by rennies on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:45:06 AM EST
    No more. Vick brutally tortured and murdered (shot,drowned, electrocuted) innocent creatures. (That's what most serial killers do as well.) There has to be something deeply wrong with a psyche capable of that behavior.

    Parent
    If he had been a pedophile (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by rennies on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:46:52 AM EST
    would the encomiums and forgiveness been as lavish?

    Parent
    Probably not... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:52:11 PM EST
    but think about where he grew up.  It wasnt a neighborhood where his main concern was getting the newest Xbox 360 game or hoping the next comic book movie didnt suck.  No, it would have been drug deals and drive by shootings.  

    I know thats a bleeding heart argument, but if he was never taught to believe other people are worth treating well, including himself, then how is he going to have that compassion for an animal?

    Parent

    There are plenty of star athletes who had (none / 0) (#66)
    by rennies on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 05:16:53 PM EST
    a similar background. AFAIK Vick is the first to be convicted of torturing and murdering dogs.

    Parent
    Just because someone is strong enough... (none / 0) (#67)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 05:22:41 PM EST
    to do the right thing doesnt mean everyone was born with that strength.  I didnt grow up in that environment and I cant say for sure I would have been strong enough to do everything right.  Thats one of the reasons why most crimes arent life sentences.

    Parent
    Lawd... (none / 0) (#74)
    by masslib on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:38:09 PM EST
    The bigotry of low expectations.  There is no reason to believe people who don't grow up in the right neighborhoods are more likely to mutilate dogs.

    Parent
    There is... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:57:37 PM EST
    if the local culture encourages these kinds of fights.  

    In fact the democrats used a state question about cockfighting during the 2002 election in oklahoma to get Brad Henry elected.  A lot of the pro cockfighting voters were democrats.

    The local culture of where you grow up has a lot to do with your worldview.  Understanding that isn't bigotry.  Its only turns into that if you judge them, thinking they're in someway inferior.

    Parent

    Ha! I really could care a less (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by masslib on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 07:05:17 PM EST
    whether or not the Democrats support cock fighting.  I don't think you can just make the argument that Mike Vick's culture is why he thought mutilating dogs was ok.  And, to just make that assumption I would say is holding pretty low expectations for people.  Further, this isn't an illegal card game or something.  I think Mike Vick has been around enough to know what he was doing at the very least wouldn't go over well with the public.

    Parent
    Vick said... (none / 0) (#79)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 07:21:34 PM EST
    he grew up around dogfighting.  It was part of the culture he grew up in.

    And you really missed the point about the Democrats and cockfighting.  What I was saying was that, while you and I may find that activity abhorrent, there are people who've grown up around cockfighting and find it to be an acceptable sport.  Its not because they're all evil, its because thats what they're used to.

    Finally, how is it holding low expectations?  As I'm sure you know, there are countries in the world were people eat dogs.  Do you hold people in those countries with low expectations?

    Parent

    Do you honestly believe (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by masslib on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:19:51 PM EST
    everyone who grew up in a similar US culture to Vick thinks dog fighting is just great?  This has nothing to do with what animals people eat in foreign countries.  We are talking about the absolute brutality of dogs.  In other cultures, they stone women too.  That doesn't mean one says well, it's the culture.  Finally, your point was well most of us don't do what criminals do.  My point was well most criminals don't mutilate animals for sport.  My point stands.

    Parent
    If thats your main point... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Thanin on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:28:41 PM EST
    its moot in regards to mine.  If someone grows up around dogfighting and are never told its wrong, then its completely believable that they'll believe its not immoral.  Vick grew up around dogfighting.  His specific, local culture did dogfighting and he grew up thinking it was ok.

    The people in those other countries grew up thinking its ok to eat dogs.  Those people in oklahoma grew up thinking cockfighting is ok.  I don't know how you're not getting that.  

    I'm not saying I personally think its ok to do any of that, what I'm saying is that I understand that people who grow up surrounded by something as being acceptable are likely to grow up also thinking its acceptable.  

    And you're wrong about what my point was.  My point is that he isn't inherently an evil person for what he did and maybe people should reexamine all the vitriol being thrown against him.  Not a popular position to be sure, but I feel there is another side to the argument.

    Parent

    I didn't say he was evil. (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by masslib on Wed Dec 29, 2010 at 09:15:16 AM EST
    I said it doesn't give people alot of credit to assume they don't know mutilating dogs for sport is wrong simply because of the supposed culture one was brought up in, particularly when one has been exposed to other cultures. Again, in some cultures stoning women is acceptable.

    Parent
    So you really think... (none / 0) (#83)
    by Thanin on Wed Dec 29, 2010 at 01:00:56 PM EST
    stoning women is the equivalent of dogfighting?  So much for Women's lib.  

    If youre going to argue with examples you really should pick one of equal weight.

    And again, he grew up around dogfighting.  You keep avoiding that part.

    Parent

    Also... (none / 0) (#85)
    by Thanin on Wed Dec 29, 2010 at 01:17:08 PM EST
    you keep bringing this up:

    "I said it doesn't give people alot of credit to assume they don't know mutilating dogs for sport is wrong simply because of the supposed culture one was brought up in, particularly when one has been exposed to other cultures."

    so lets talk about that.  If socioeconomics don't explain why a subculture would embrace an anti-social activity, then why do you think, say, dogfighting is considered acceptable and practiced in America by local cultures?

    Parent

    Well, it depends... (none / 0) (#69)
    by ks on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 05:53:22 PM EST
    If he worked for the Catholic Church, he would've been long retired before it ever came to light.

    Parent
    And how is Obama doing (5.00 / 7) (#2)
    by observed on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 12:51:36 AM EST
    on drug sentencing? It's   awfully convenient to support redemption for someone earning millions of dollars. Obama pre-emptively supports  redemption for rich bank fraudsters as well. Frankly,I find Vick an odd choice,although one which lets him sidestep questions about US drug policy. Obama's chary use of his power to pardon is more teling,IMO.

    Also,this comment will not (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by observed on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:12:23 AM EST
    be popular here,but for Obama to talk about redemption for those who do the time shows a moral tin ear,IMO, if you consider how much time Obama could have served under drug laws he supports as POTUS now. Obama is schmoozing with the rich here---his favorite pastime.

    And did he call other x-prisoners? (5.00 / 4) (#7)
    by BarnBabe on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 08:15:36 AM EST
    I know Vicks is doing well, but I don't believe this was a necessary call. Vicks was wanted by several clubs because he is a known quantity. He served his time and walked back into his million dollar world. It was not a big stretch to get back into the league. So my problem is why isn't this done for others who have managed to turn their life around? Why isn't there a job waiting for others who have been released? This is about sports and doing good. Would this call have been made if Vicks was just so so a football player? What if the Eagles were in the bottom of the pack? So I think the POTUS should have just done his hooting around his bedroom and waited to make the SuperBowl winner's call. IMO.

    The call wasn't about Michael Vick (none / 0) (#61)
    by sangreal on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:52:32 PM EST
    It was about the renewable energy effort at the stadium, and the President brought up the Michael Vick situation.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#62)
    by sj on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:55:07 PM EST
    But apparently Vick was the first thing he brought up.

    Parent
    Do you think the president would have (5.00 / 6) (#9)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 08:49:25 AM EST
    called if Vick had washed out this year - if he had ended up carrying a clipboard instead of tearing up the field and shredding defenses with his freakish athletic abilities?

    I don't.  Not for one minute.

    Get back to me when he calls someone who's running a halfway house or a jobs program for ex-offenders, someone who's working the community on behalf of ex-cons who need a break to get even a minimum wage-paying job, someone who's being a true mentor to those who have never had a break, ever.  Extra points if he does it in no relation to any local, state or national election.

    It's not that his message is wrong - it's definitely the right message - but somehow I think people are tired of hearing about the breaks the multi-million dollar athletes get, the ones at the top of the heap, when it's the millions scrambling to make it who really need the encouragement and assistance of those in the local communities.

    Given how little Obama has done for those who truly have had no advantage or support, I remain unimpressed with his "reaching out" to yet another rich and powerful person.

    You're prejudiced against (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by observed on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:05:28 AM EST
    the rich who have everything getting a helping hand. Obama is more fair: he wants a level playing field for the rich.

    Parent
    It was on the need PR list (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:53:13 AM EST
    Make calls about Michael Vick...check.  Appear on Myth Busters.....check.

    Parent
    Rich and Powerful? (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:55:55 AM EST
    Mike Vick has no power, and last I heard he is no longer "rich"...though he's not going hungry or anything.

    Parent
    Come on kdog (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:21:05 AM EST
    He will be rich again.  He is well on his way.  And compared to most of us he is powerful.  He can garner attention and shape debate in immediate ways that would take me a very very long time to gain access to.  It is a perk that goes along with being a very successful professional athlete in my country.....instant rock star status.

    Parent
    No doubt he's got fame... (none / 0) (#21)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:35:44 AM EST
    and appears to be well on his way to being rich again...but where is the power?  If he had any real power, he would have been immune from prosecution.

    Parent
    Okay...he doesn't have absolute power (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:48:52 AM EST
    but he has more than I do man :)

    Parent
    $1.5 mil. "roster bonus." He's rich. (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:09:06 PM EST
    And the Pres.'s tax package keeps him rich.  link

    Parent
    And he will be worth (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:14:35 PM EST
    tens of millions at the end of the year when he becomes a free agent.

    Parent
    iirc, he's only getting (none / 0) (#35)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:26:02 PM EST
    $350K of his salary (last year and this?) because of his bankruptcy/debt issues. He was also supposed to pay 1 mil for the dogs rescue and care. Not sure what's happening on that front (paid up or not).

    Parent
    He is bankrupt (none / 0) (#60)
    by sangreal on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:49:54 PM EST
    He has a court ordered budget and the rest goes to his creditors. He doesn't get to keep that 1.5 million.


    Under the terms of the budget, he is permitted to spend $3,500 each month for rent in Philadelphia, with another $750 for "utilities and miscellaneous." There is no provision in the budget for buying dinner for his offensive linemen.

    Sure that will get him an amazing place in Philly, but $750 of spending money a month is hardly rich -- especially in the context of the NFL.

    Parent

    $1.5 mil. "roster bonus." He's rich. (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:10:07 PM EST
    link

    Parent
    But as top NFL QBs go, (none / 0) (#37)
    by brodie on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:58:06 PM EST
    he's not really rich, and besides missing those couple of years of salary and being currently vastly underpaid, he's also missed out on significant endorsement money because of his legal issues.

    Compared certainly to either of the Mannings or Tom Brady or Drew Brees, all of whom Vick equals in terms of pure QB talent, Vick is almost a pauper.

    Not that I'm feeling bad for him -- he's about to go from rather poorly compensated given his ability and experience to being handsomely paid starting next year, provided he finishes out strong on the field and doesn't screw up in his private life.

    Parent

    Injury seems likely (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:05:38 PM EST
    Just tempting fate with every run....

    Parent
    Yet scrambling out of (none / 0) (#52)
    by brodie on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    the pocket is what sets him apart from all the rest.  So he really can't, shouldn't, stop doing it.

    Just that -- his Achilles' Heel is not having learned (yet) how to quickly get down and slide feet first.  Bad habit of diving head first he'll need to unlearn if he wants a long career.

    Parent

    I say Super Bowl for Iggles (none / 0) (#54)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:23:12 PM EST
    My prediction:  Pats 34, Iggles 28.

    Brady is back to Superhuman status.

    What say you?

    Parent

    I've got the Pats too -- (none / 0) (#58)
    by brodie on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:33:07 PM EST
    but that's hardly a surprising pick -- going all the way.  Easily the best team this year.

    Could be they beat Philly, or it could be that the Saints, assuming they continue to get healthy, continue to get better and get back to the SB.  

    Might be a closer, more exciting game Pats v Saints since you have to be both disciplined and bold to beat NE, and the Saints have both of those, plus outstanding coaching.  Philly, not so much in the discipline dept.  The Eagles are capable either of upsetting the Pats or of being blown out.

    Parent

    kdog, it wasn't Vick he was schmoozing, (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anne on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 12:55:06 PM EST
    it was the wealthy owner of the Eagles, Jeffrey Lurie.

    See the difference?

    But, hell - Obama might as well call every owner of every NFL team, all of which have on their rosters players who have gone sideways with the law, and who are still playing - you know, getting that second (third, fourth, etc.) chance.

    Sheesh.

    Parent

    Sorry I misread ya... (none / 0) (#30)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:32:22 PM EST
    Now I got ya...and yes, if Obama lobbied Lurie to hire ex-cons to work concessions, that would mean so much more.

    Parent
    Let's not make the perfect (none / 0) (#36)
    by brodie on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:51:59 PM EST
    the enemy of the good.  O gets props from me for his encouraging words to Laurie about the encouraging Vick.  The fact that he didn't take time out to lobby each and every NFL team to do this or that for worthy ex-felons is not something I'm going to discredit him for.  

    Though I'm sure a lot of teams already try to take care of ex players in various ways.  It makes good business sense and tends to strengthen current player ties to the organization.

    Btw, I understand O actually called owner Lurie to applaud him for Lurie's decision to partner with a local clean energy outfit re outfitting the new Eagles stadium to be completely energy efficient. The Vick thing might have been item #2 on O's list.

    Parent

    Not so much Lurie as Iggles fans (none / 0) (#38)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:27:19 PM EST
    And they could go to the Super Bowl....I'd pick them over the Pack and the Saints...

    Time to lock up Pennsylvania's electoral votes......

    And you guys keep saying that there is no way Obama will win re-election....he cannot connect with regular folk....

    Vick did his time.

    Why wasn't Palin put in jail for her treatment of animals?

    Parent

    I wasn't aware Palin (none / 0) (#41)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:32:48 PM EST
    hung, electrocuted, drown and beat dogs to death . . .

    Oh, are you talking about her legal hunting?

    Parent

    Suffering was the same (none / 0) (#43)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:36:29 PM EST
    Hang your legal tag on it all you like....Still canines suffering and being killed for sport....

    You are actually supporting Palin on this?

    Parent

    Vick could have killed his dogs in a (none / 0) (#47)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:53:01 PM EST
    more humane manner. You know, the ol' one shot to the head routine. Would still be a felony I believe . . .

    I don't support Palin (not falling for that one), but I do support humane hunting for food. The idea behind that is to never let the animal suffer . . . eating an animal from the wild is far better than factory farming, imo.

    Parent

    Do you know how the wolves were hunted? (none / 0) (#49)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:04:37 PM EST
    Tracked for miles after being shot from helicopters?

    Have you seen the video of the wolf biting at its back after being shot?   They took videos of the wolves being shot.....

    There is not so much difference between the two....

    Dogs descended from wolves about 15,000 years ago--German Shepherds later than that....

    Parent

    What she was doing there (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:22:52 PM EST
    is legal. I said I supported humane hunting. Not sure that falls under it (haven't seen the videos either). I'm pretty sure her moose/caribou hunting does though. I do not support Cheney's (or anyone's) canned hunts which are legal.

    So, is Palin your fall gal when you hit the wall on Obama now? Why bring her into a discussion on the way Vick killed dogs/his second chance?

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    Not really about Obama (none / 0) (#56)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:30:49 PM EST
    And it was really about Palin....

    I donated to a wildlife fund after seeing the videos....of her helicopter hunting of wolves....It was very controversial in Alaska and took a couple of initiatives before it was "legalized."

    You guys want to jump on Obama over Vick?  Really?  Good grief.....It is this ticky tacky stuff that hurts the credibility of those who would criticize Obama's policies....

    Vick went to prison for longer than a year.  Palin is lionized as a great mooseburger fronteirswoman....In the long run, Palin is doing greater damage than Vick.  Vick has stopped hurting dogs and is helping to save them now....Palin not so much....

    Parent

    I'm not jumping on Obama (5.00 / 3) (#76)
    by nycstray on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:56:11 PM EST
    but what he said is just plain tone deaf or stupid, take your pick. Vick's post prison life can't be compared to the average post prison life in any way shape or form. The comment it's self "hurts the credibility" of Obama more so than those criticizing it. Are you actually arguing that you agree with/support that statement?

    Still see no need to bring Palin in. That's a whole sep issue. And she may be hurting her own rep with her lil' reality show on the wilderness woman front, from what I've heard of it . . .

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    Extra points if he does it in relation (none / 0) (#42)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:35:16 PM EST
    to no election....

    Come on.....That is what Presidents do.....

    Makes a point about redemption and curries favor with voters using sports.....That is just terrible?  We can't have that....Just awful.....Politicians really should't be politicians.....

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    Obama's just ... (5.00 / 2) (#11)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:20:42 AM EST
    a football fanboy.  That's why he made the call really.

    He's crazy about sports. (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Natal on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:48:26 AM EST
    Wonder who he picks in tonight's Insight Bowl?


    Parent
    A Political Tin Ear (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by msaroff on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:37:29 AM EST
    I think that this is motivated by two things, first, becasue animal welfare advocates are perceived as goo-goo liberals, it's a free chance to hippie punch, and second, it's the Reagan philosophy:  All is forgiven if you are in the top 1%.

    Of significance here is that we hear nothing on draconian drug laws, but an "atta boy" on hiring Vick ONCE HE SHOWED THAT HE WAS STILL A GOOD QUARTERBACK.

    This is all about how success = virtue in what is fundamentally a Republican view of the world.

    Nice sentiments... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by kdog on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 09:59:38 AM EST
    from the pres...now grab your pen and start pardoning by the thousands.

    climb on the bandwagon (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by diogenes on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:25:01 AM EST
    Obama didn't exactly step up and defend Michael Vick in the fall of 2008, in the fall of 2009, or at any point before he became a MVP caliber player this year.  

    Zactly! (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:29:53 AM EST


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    It was smart politically, (none / 0) (#6)
    by Makarov on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 02:38:58 AM EST
    as Michael Vick is very popular right now. After all, NBC flexed a very unbalanced game between Philadelphia and Minnesota to Sunday night (to be played Tuesday night due to the weather postponement) simply due to the ratings Vick and the Eagles generate.

    I did take notice, though, of what the President didn't do. He didn't call Jeff Lurie in August of 2009 when Vick was signed, or even later that season after it became clear Michael would make good on his commitments to the Humane Society. He waited until Vick was competing for league MVP and the Eagles all but guaranteed a playoff spot.

    That snide and cynical observation aside, I was pleasantly surprised to learn of the President's call. Whatever his motivation might be, I agree completely with what he said. Everyone deserves a second chance.

    Perhaps you should have taken notice (none / 0) (#64)
    by sangreal on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 05:05:08 PM EST
    of the Eagles' plan to power their stadium with renewable energy, since that is what actually determined the President's timing and not Vick's TV ratings.

    More info on those plans: http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/news/2010/11/18/solar-panels-wind-turbines-to-help.html

    Parent

    I am not a big fan of Vick's (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdm251 on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 08:31:45 AM EST
    But if his story can insure some people to start giving other convicted felons a chance then maybe some good will come out out of Ron Mexico' s life

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 10:34:48 AM EST
    But it does seem like President Obama likes to skim the public relations cream off of any currently happening event if he can.  And it does seem like he enjoys doing this more than he enjoys "fighting for" change that actually makes anything better for the nobodies of this world.

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    And how in hell does it ensure that? (none / 0) (#71)
    by masslib on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:17:13 PM EST
    I think it probably ensures Mike Vick the MVP award.

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    to judge from many of the comments here . . . (none / 0) (#28)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:06:45 PM EST
    this was not a media interview, but a call that Obama placed on his own initiative

    . . . i might conclude that Obama's media shop is out to lunch - Obama doing his own media is pretty much like Obama speaking w/out his teleprompter

    as for Michael Vick, i abhor what he did but believe that even a Michael Vick can finally experience the remorse that makes true rehabilitation possible - if that is what has happened, his remorse will be his punishment for the rest of his life - & even if Vick feels no remorse, in the eyes of the law he has paid the price for his actions

    whereas Obama's call to Vick just makes Obama look like a shallow & hypocritical opportunist, imo

    correction (none / 0) (#29)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:07:55 PM EST
    Obama called Lurie, not Vick - my bad

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    You of course know the line (none / 0) (#39)
    by MKS on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:31:06 PM EST
    from Casablanca?

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    of course (none / 0) (#44)
    by The Addams Family on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 03:43:31 PM EST


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    Obama should be ashamed of himself.... (none / 0) (#31)
    by samsguy18 on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 01:45:46 PM EST
    Disgusting.....I don't begrudge Vick his second chance however the cruelty done to the animals involved was horrendous. As the President he should have refrained from making any comment

    And then -- speaking of (none / 0) (#55)
    by brodie on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 04:25:03 PM EST
    cruelty to man's best friend, and presidents -- this unfortunate and rather cruel display from May 1964, which caused a ruckus from many animal/dog lovers throughout the land when the photo was splashed over the front pages of the nation's newspapers.

    (btw, note the fawning press corps in tow -- Isn't it delightful how the President shows such affection for his pets ... )

    Are you kidding me? (none / 0) (#70)
    by masslib on Tue Dec 28, 2010 at 06:15:41 PM EST
    Obama is trying to influence the MVP pick.  The man knows no bounds.  I'm sorry, but since when in this society have the mega talented not been able to come out of prison and find a second chance?  How in the hell does this help the regular joe who finds fewer and fewer second chances in this society?  Yeah, Obama's some hero.  

    Obama Hate (none / 0) (#84)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Wed Dec 29, 2010 at 01:03:44 PM EST
    OK now this is ridiculous.  The purpose of the call was to congratulate the owner on the great energy initiatives of the Eagles stadium (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/sports/football/18stadium.html?_r=1).

    He thanked the guy for setting an example by giving Vick a second chance (a comment likely meant to be private and not reach the media) and now Obama is doing this to gain votes?

    People detest Vick and many will never forgive him.  If Obama's goal was to gain an advantage, the last thing he should do is mention Michael Vick.

    Just because you don't like some of the things Obama does doesn't mean that you have to attribute pure evil intent to everything he does.

    It cheapens arguments that you make that may otherwise have merit.

    I applaud Obama for the statement.  Forgiveness and redemption are core liberal ideals.  

    Parent

    Obama Supports Second Chance for Michael Vick | 85 comments (85 topical)

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