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Thursday Morning Open Thread

I'm scared to death:

UCLA is on fire right now. The Bruins have beaten five NCAA tournament teams in their last five games, two of which are in the Sweet 16 (Arizona and Stanford). Florida has been great all season and the Gators have also recently beaten two Sweet 16 teams (Kentucky and Tennessee). But anybody who saw the three-game stretch of Tennessee, Kentucky, and Albany knows the Gators are far from the dominant force you’d expect a no. 1 overall seed to be.

Florida’s bread-and-butter is its defense, but UCLA’s offense has the weapons to defeat it. Anderson is a real problem, and Florida will be forced to work hard to neutralize him. Anderson alone might not be enough to top the Gators, but when you add Adams’s 17.4 points per game, Powell’s 11.5 points per game, and the versatility of the Wear twins, the Gators will have their hands full. If the Bruins can find success against Florida’s defense, they’ll force a Gator team that is susceptible to scoring droughts to keep up with them, and there’s no telling how that might turn out.Maybe UCLA doesn’t pull out the win, but the signs point to this being a great game, and the Bruins could be a bounce or two away from ending Florida’s 28-game winning streak[.]

That seems a fair assessment. Open Thread.

< Wednesday Afternoon Open thread | March Madness! Sweet Sixteen, Night 1 >
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    Christie's lawyer says he wasn't involved in a (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Angel on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:09:01 PM EST
    plot to create gridlock near a major bridge as part of a political retribution scheme.  I think I'll wait for the independent investigation and get the real truth.

    In the (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:22:47 PM EST
    What a surprise file.


    Parent
    The scorned woman "smoking gun" (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:35:53 PM EST
    is a Bridget-gate of its own.  (from the link).  The report also suggested that Bridget Kelly, a top assistant, "may have been motivated to participate, in part, because she'd recently been dumped in a romantic relationship by a former Christie campaign manager."    Well, that settles it.  Of course, the crack investigators were unable to interview Ms. Kelly (or David Wildstein.  

    Parent
    Just saw the gov (none / 0) (#135)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 04:14:19 PM EST
    For the first time in a while.  Dudes half the man he used to be in more ways than one.

    Parent
    Oh and I 'll just drop this in comments (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:21:19 PM EST
    Remember when I said Nate Silver was nothing special (he was poblano back then.)

    Told you so.

    Haha (none / 0) (#12)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:50:00 PM EST
    I just brought up his statements on the PA primary back in '08 the other day.

    Parent
    Funny how (none / 0) (#16)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 01:16:02 PM EST
    the Dems loved him and swore by him in 2012 (and also a month ago when they mentioned him by name in fundraising literature to raise money), but when he puts out a message they don't like, all of sudden, he's no big deal and doesn't know what he's talking about.

    How the worm has turned.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#74)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:10:20 PM EST
    I don't know who swore by him but ever since '08 I have never listened to him. And most of the stuff he says is cryptic to me anyway.

    Parent
    When you need to sell a product, (none / 0) (#20)
    by christinep on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:06:38 PM EST
    controversy can be important.  Nate Silver knows that.  In fact, the Senate-prognosis effort of his does show a clever wordsmith ... include lots of wiggle-room in the projection, and that he did.

    Parent
    Well I was surprised to (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:26:44 PM EST
    Discover he had feet of clay.  Will you  splain to me how he called the last Presidential election when the media seemed to be insane? I bought and read a book and everything based on all that.

    So I should place my head in the stool and flush it clean of that signal to noise theory?

    Parent

    Longtime TL Whipping Girl... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 01:57:05 PM EST
    Michelle "Crazy Eyes" Malkin goes to a CO Reefer Shop, and walks out making more sense than she ever has.

    The sacrament is a wonder in many ways, but I didn't know it could ever accomplish a miracle like that!

    Once the "right" people are suffering... (none / 0) (#85)
    by unitron on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 08:17:02 PM EST
    ...then all of a sudden medicinal use of marijuana is "okay".

    Parent
    Hey, let's be grateful (none / 0) (#86)
    by NYShooter on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 08:24:33 PM EST
    for what we get......one sad soul at a time:)

    Parent
    Six (6) million...and counting (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by christinep on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:20:04 PM EST
    Six million enrollees in ACA as of March 27th ... without counting the additional millions having now enrolled in expanded Medicaid.

    How many (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:46:04 PM EST
    actually have plans?

    Parent
    We'll soon find out, I'm guessing (none / 0) (#68)
    by christinep on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:09:06 PM EST
    Interesting (none / 0) (#70)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:20:14 PM EST
    That after 6 months of open enrollment no one can give us any kind of accurate numbers yet.

    Parent
    The focus, for most people now, (none / 0) (#73)
    by christinep on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:41:42 PM EST
    has been on the enrollment numbers.  They sure look good!

    Parent
    Christine, I would have thought (none / 0) (#82)
    by NYShooter on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 07:58:56 PM EST
    you'd have figured jp out by now.

    If you had posted, "Joseph GoodCitizen" just announced he's leaving his entire 200 Trillion Dollar fortune to philanthropic foundations, effective immediately"........

    you could set an atomic clock to the following instant when she posts, "Everyone is enthralled today by Joseph G's huge endowment to charitable enterprises, but, where was he last year when this cheapskate signed over a measly 200 million dollars for malaria research in Africa?"

    Of course, I'm joking........mmm sort of.

    Parent

    The number that's important (none / 0) (#94)
    by jbindc on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 06:02:50 AM EST
    Is how many people, who previously didn't have insurance, will now be covered because they have chosen and paid for a plan.

    Isn't that what it's really all about? Getting more people insured?

    Then, of course, we will need to check back in 6 months - how many of those people continued to pay for a plan?

    Until the administration is willing and able to give us those numbers, all the ballyhooing and shouting about "enrollment" numbers is useless.

    Parent

    I read 7 million (none / 0) (#87)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 09:20:43 PM EST
    but I don't really have a clue what it means or if its good or bad. 316 million people, doesn't seem too impressive as a percentage.

    Parent
    According to the numbers I've seen, (5.00 / 3) (#110)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 11:24:18 AM EST
    it is estimated there were 47 million people without insurance in 2012, out of a population of some 313 million; the math on that translates to 15% without insurance, and 85% with insurance.

    It is unclear how many of the newly enrolled are also newly insured, unclear how many are now covered by Medicaid who weren't previously insured, unclear how many more are being separately reported via the state exchanges.

    Of this I am certain: more people have insurance now than had it before.  More people who had insurance before have benefits they didn't have before.  More people who lived in fear of being dropped from a plan because of their health no longer have to be afraid.  More people are paying less than they were before.  By any measure, and in light of the system within which we are working, these are good things.

    There's a long way to go, and ultimately, the ACA may prove to not be the best way to get where we need to go - but there are millions of people who sleep better at night, who may have a little more money at the end of the month, who are able to address health issues they couldn't afford to deal with.  

    Work to get more people in that position, and consider every person who benefits a success.

    Parent

    Agreed. The numbers, themselves, (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by KeysDan on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:15:55 PM EST
    are impressive given the forces of the Republicans attempting to negatively influence enrollment.   As you note,  ACA may not prove to be the best way...., but "best" acknowledges comparisons not only to those possible but the one enacted.

    The quantitative aspect (getting the numbers) also succeeded despite the Administration's botched roll-out, further underscoring the need and demand for health insurance protection.

     The next steps will involve assurances for the qualitative aspects--the provision of health care in accord with expectations for the Act. After all, the insurance companies continue as the foundation and not all may have changed their stripes entirely.  

    Hopefully, the lessons from quantitative problems will be learned and applied to thwart and/or address qualitative issues that are likely to arise at every point in implementation.

    Parent

    Wow (2.00 / 1) (#113)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 12:34:38 PM EST
    Are you saying that Obama did a good thing?

    Parent
    What Anne is saying is (5.00 / 3) (#115)
    by CoralGables on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 01:15:50 PM EST
    The ACA has benefited many and your rating from sj for your snarkiness is probably well deserved this time.

    Parent
    Snarkiness? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 01:46:04 PM EST
    Hardly. As for your a$$holery it is duly noted.

    I rated Anne's comment 5. And have been asking her the question regarding whether or not she think Obama has done a good thing, for some time now.

    As far as I know Anne has never been able to bring herself or himself to acknowledge anything positive that Obama has done.

    And sj is on his or her own regarding rating mania. Usually quite extreme, imo.

    Parent

    A boy named Sue? (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:22:26 PM EST
    I think it has been firmly established that Anne is a woman.

    Also,  Anne in her very last comment stated that the Obama insurance legislation has benefited many. This is not the first time she has made a statement saying that it has helped  some people. By most definitions, that statement would qualify as an acknowledgement that Obama did "something" positive.

    Parent

    Please, gawd, not another exegesis (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:25:03 PM EST
    of "some"!

    Parent
    Seems you might have wanted to (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:47:07 PM EST
    have used your admonishment to take a statement at face value in a previous comment made by the other member of your cliché. But of course, that would be too much to expect.

    Parent
    More kindling? (none / 0) (#125)
    by sj on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:26:24 PM EST
    Apparently, writing now and again about (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:46:53 PM EST
    my pregnancies and the births of my children is not conclusive proof of my gender.

    I shudder to think what would suffice if that didn't.

    Parent

    Belief? (none / 0) (#133)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 03:04:14 PM EST
    Writing?  

    Lots of people write and say things that lots of other people do not believe to be true.

    You should know.

    I mean Obama is a Republican but has said and written that he is a Democrat. You have written that you believe that to be untrue.

    BTW, I guess my ideal of internet anonymity being a benefit should be suspended in cases where commenters clearly identify themselves with a particular gender. It is akin to acknowledging that Bradley Manning is a her.

    I see your point Anne, Thanks... and I will refrain from gender neutral when it comes to you and others who identify with a particular gender in their comments.

    Parent

    Firmly Established? (none / 0) (#128)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:41:29 PM EST
    OK maybe for you, but for me I will address and imagine commenters as gender neutral, until I know differently.

    Then I will address commenter as gender neutral and imagine them as the gender I know them to be.

    To each his or her own.

    And regarding your imagination, it appears to be quite strong, as Anne never mentioned Obama or the Obama administration in her comment. Maybe most people who did not know where ANne was coming from, might think that she was saying that Obama did something positive, but anyone who has been following her schtick here knows that it is probably not possible for Anne to say anything good about Obama...  

    maybe when he is dead or gone she will say:  good..

    Parent

    Anne is not a gender (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 03:01:58 PM EST
    neutral name.

    I admit to having a very good imagination. I save it for avenues  other than  making stuff up and purposely misinterpreting what other commenters write.  You might try leaving the fictional aspects, with its twists and turns, out of your comments.

    Parent

    Perhaps redundant. Your "5" (4.50 / 2) (#118)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:11:22 PM EST
    rating of Anne's comment speaks much louder than words. In my opinion.

    Parent
    really? (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by sj on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:24:15 PM EST
    Perhaps redundant. Your "5" (none / 0) (#118)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 01:11:22 PM MDT

    rating of Anne's comment speaks much louder than words. In my opinion.

    Why? Your comment is not redundant, exactly. More like baffling.

    I don't typically look to see the details of anyone's ratings. Sometimes not even mine. So while someone may have uprated another's comment, that is a much quieter statement than actual, you know, words. And a history of words.

    Words speak pretty loudly. In my opinion.

    I never took you as the type to fascinated by comment ratings. However, if you are so interested in them that you go about checking the ratings of all the comments, I suppose it could be considered a statement. Of sorts. Has it really been that dead here that you are resorting to that for entertainment?

    Whatever. Not much new since I was last here. And I'm already bored so out I go again.

    Parent

    Yes. (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:26:23 PM EST
    Thanks. (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by sj on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:36:14 PM EST
    I wasn't sure.

    me:

    Has it really been that dead here that you are resorting to that for entertainment?
    you:
    Yes. (none / 0) (#124)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 01:26:23 PM MDT

    That's too bad. It used to be a great place to learn stuff. And now that I've caught up and finished lunch. I'll bid fare-thee-well.

    Parent
    Just in case J decides to (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 05:42:43 PM EST
    archive comments:

    really? (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by sj on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 11:24:15 AM PST
    Perhaps redundant. Your "5" (none / 0) (#118)
    by oculus on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 01:11:22 PM MDT
    rating of Anne's comment speaks much louder than words. In my opinion.

    Yes.

    Parent

    To expand on your correct interpretation (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Anne on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:32:45 PM EST
    of my comment, I'll add this:

    When all is said and done, the ACA will benefit some people - perhaps a lot of people - but it is still a given that (1) not everyone will benefit, because some will choose not to get insurance, (2) some are exempted from the requirements and will continue to be uninsured, (3) some will realize they did not make good choices and could end up worse off financially than before, (4) some will be unhappy with - among other things - narrow networks that limit their choices of providers.

    Will those things be Obama's fault?  Should we hold him accountable for the so-called "failures?"  Is it his fault that he designed a plan that won't cover everyone, won't expand access or improve affordability for everyone?  And if it is his fault, so what?  What does that mean to the millions who still won't be covered - how does that help them?

    Or do we need to turn to the Congress and to the states to address regulations and compliance to make sure that we're making it work for more people the way it was intended to?

    We've really barely begun to experience life with the ACA; to use a sports metaphor, we're barely into the first quarter, and while there may be some points on the board, we can't know whether we're going to win the game.  

    Those who are reaping a benefit may be happy to credit Obama, but those who aren't may choose to blame him.  Is one more right than the other, or are both true - or is it really a waste of time and mental energy trying to keep score?

    Parent

    Anne (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 04:18:25 PM EST
    I agree with a lot of that comment.  But it's certainly not Os fault that govs are blocking Medicaid expansion for millions.

    And while it's true we can't know if we will win the game, at least we are IN the game.

    Parent

    You know (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 04:49:10 PM EST
    it is true that you can't blame Obama for the governors not take the Medicaid expansion but you can hold him responsible for the PPUS kumbaya crap and him thinking that these governors would take the money. It shows a lack of understanding of knowing how bad these people actually are. Nathan Deal is getting so bad I would not be suprised to see him take a gun and start taking poor people out in the state and claiming he was "standing his ground". It also shows that Obama is not a very good politician because a good one would have said okay, you ridiculous governors aren't going to let the people in your state have health insurance? Well, I'm just going to open them up to Medicare because if you don't care about the residents of your state I sure do.

    Parent
    I agree that (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 04:56:43 PM EST
    A consistent blind spot for him has been just how hateful and spiteful his opponents were capable of being and thinking that there was no need to respond to this charge or that one because people are smarter than that.

    Still, expecting people to be smarter and better than they are seems sort of like a backhanded compliment.   And in pretty much anyone but a politician would be seen as a positive character trait.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#143)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 06:18:19 PM EST
    my frustration with Obama has always been he does not try. I actually think in a lot of ways he is glad he has a crazy congress because that means he can have the perfect excuse for not worrying about policy or anything else.

    I mean he could have tried to do something after the governors said they weren't going to take it but crickets on that one.

    Parent

    The SC said they didn't have to take it (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 06:22:44 PM EST
    Any ideas what he could have done?

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#150)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:17:03 PM EST
    he advocated for raising the age for Medicare. Maybe he could have put that same amount of energy into LOWERING the age. Again, did he even try to figure out a work around for it? Or another way that maybe he could have used the ACA to get insurance for these people? It seemed like he just gave up.

    Parent
    Gave Up? (none / 0) (#152)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:35:54 PM EST
    Again, did he even try to figure out a work around for it? Or another way that maybe he could have used the ACA to get insurance for these people? It seemed like he just gave up.

    I dunno, after a long struggle to get some kind of National Health Care in the US, it seems to me that Obama accomplished a lot.

    I do not see him as having given up, this idea, far from perfect has had tremendous resistance from many fronts for a loooooong time.

    ACA is just starting, and the obstructionists who wanted things to stay as they were, have thrown some garbage but that will pass as their popularity is waning, imo.

    We'll see.  

    Parent

    Medicare? (none / 0) (#139)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 05:10:32 PM EST
    Well, I'm just going to open them up to Medicare because if you don't care about the residents of your state I sure do.

    Obama could not do that. And, I do not think making empty threats would have been a good idea for Obama.  

    The governors who refused to cooperate with Medicaid expansion are going to pay for f'ing their constituents over, imo.

    We'll see.

    Parent

    Are you sure he cannot? (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 06:11:35 PM EST
    I mean what about just lowering the age?

    Are you kidding? Nathan Deal is probably going to suffer exact no repercussions because people think that they aren't going to get it anyway. They think only "those people" who they feel are "unworthy" are going to qualify for the Medicare expansion.

    GA has become an embarrassing zoo but I'm willing to bet Deal will get reelected.

    Parent

    Not Sure (none / 0) (#145)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 06:32:46 PM EST
    But I think that any changes have to go through a very complicated congressional review, panels etc..

    It is a big program that people pay into. Some exceptions are young people with disabilities etc...  but for the POTUS to use it as a leverage chip does not sound viable to me.

    If that were so, BushCO would have raised the eligibility age to 110, and funneled the money for blacksite torture.

    Parent

    This is from Forbes (5.00 / 3) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 06:50:29 PM EST
    As millions of newly eligble Americans sign up for Medicaid health insurance for the poor under the Affordable Care Act, pressure builds on states and their Republican governors that have balked at going along with the health law's expansion of the program.

    Now, some states are scrambling to find "politically palatable ways" to expand Medicaid as the Washington Post reported this week. Meanwhile, other states, mostly led by Republican governors such as Texas' Rick Perry and Florida's Rick Scott, are getting hammered by a barrage of political ads urging them to expand Medicaid as well.

    Parent

    I don't (none / 0) (#151)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:20:03 PM EST
    think Deal is feeling any pressure but I'm sure Rick Scott is.

    At least your govenor there in AR is willing to fight for something that actually helps the people in his state.

    Parent

    Just Say: No Deal (none / 0) (#147)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 07:37:33 PM EST
    ATLANTA -- The Democratic challenger to Gov. Nathan Deal has pulled into the lead, according to a public-opinion survey released Thursday.

    Jason Carter, a Democratic state senator from Atlanta and grandson of Georgia's only president, is slightly ahead of Deal, 41 percent to 38 percent.
    However, the margin of error is 4 percent, leaving the two candidates effectively tied.
    The online survey of 486 voters was conducted Sunday and Monday by InsiderAdvantage with OpinionSavvy on behalf of Morris News and WAGA-TV in Atlanta. It showed 21 percent remain undecided.

    Early, but we'll see..

    Parent

    Polling (none / 0) (#149)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:13:27 PM EST
    at 38 percent is pretty poor. That's about what the last contender for govenor pulled in the election IIRC.

    Deal has been playing to the far right so I'm sure that's hurting hiim somewhat but he has never been really liked by the same people he's pandering to.

    I would love to eat my words and for Deal to lose but it's unlikely. It's more likely that he would get knocked off in the primary than lose in the general.

    Parent

    And on blame/credit (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 05:19:22 PM EST
    I think it's all on O.  Pass or fail sink or swim I think he owns it.  It will be forever be the second thing in his bio right after being the first AA president.

    Parent
    Oh Well (none / 0) (#129)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:45:12 PM EST
    Surprised you waited so long...  an unqualified statement that implied you were acknowledging Obama as having done something good, had to be qualified.

    ACA is Obama's fault. hahahahaha

    Parent

    What might help ... (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Yman on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 07:52:42 PM EST
    ... is more reading of the actual lines rater than what you're looking for in between them.

    Parent
    First quarter? I'd say it's more like... (none / 0) (#153)
    by unitron on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 11:36:25 PM EST
    ...the first inning, with no idea how many more innings there will be or how long the game will run.

    Parent
    Primary Reason? (none / 0) (#158)
    by squeaky on Sat Mar 29, 2014 at 10:54:06 AM EST
    I do not think that the insurance industry is or was the primary reason that we have the most expensive and least efficient health care in the world. They lobbied against the ACA.

    So why does Obamacare run through the private sector? Raw political necessity: this was the only way that it could get past the insurance industry's power. OK, that was how it had to be.

    Insurance industry sucks for sure but hospital, doctors, medical equipment manufacturers, suppliers, and pharmaceutical companies are perhaps even a bigger problem.

    No one wants to mess with the hospitals because America has the best hospitals in the world...  hahahah  GOP arguments sift into arguments made here regarding the best hospital facilities now unavailable due to narrowing. What about those fabulous hospitals?

    Hospitals may be the most politically powerful institution in any congressional district. They're usually admired as their community's most important charitable institution, and their influential stakeholders run the gamut from equipment makers to drug companies to doctors to thousands of rank­and­file employees. Then again, if every community paid more attention to those administrator salaries, to those nonprofits' profit margins and to charges like $77 for gauze pads, perhaps the political balance would shift.

    What are the reasons, good or bad, that cancer means a half­million­ or million­dollar tab? Why should a trip to the emergency room for chest pains that turn out to be indigestion bring a bill that can exceed the cost of a semester of college? What makes a single dose of even the most wonderful wonder drug cost thousands of dollars? Why does simple lab work done during a few days in a hospital cost more than a car? And what is so different about the medical ecosystem that causes technology advances to drive bills up instead of down?....

    Insurance companies lobbying is minor compared to the health care industrial complex.

    According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the pharmaceutical and health­care­product industries, combined with organizations representing doctors, hospitals, nursing homes, health services and HMOs, have spent $5.36 billion since 1998 on lobbying in Washington. That dwarfs the $1.53 billion spent by the defense and aerospace industries and the
    $1.3 billion spent by oil and gas interests over the same period. That's right: the health­care­industrial complex spends more than three times what the military­industrial complex spends in Washington....

    Link (pdf)

    An argument for medicare.

    Parent

    Still going strong with this (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:04:28 PM EST
    extremely dishonest claim, I see. For someone who has in the past claimed to be an expert because they LIKED math, I would think that you would know that you have exaggerated the basis for your percentage by over 266 million.  

    No need for you to worry that your gross misrepresentation of the facts has damaged your  credibility tho.

    Parent

    316 million (none / 0) (#154)
    by Mikado Cat on Sat Mar 29, 2014 at 08:15:37 AM EST
    is the census estimate for US population in 2013, I never claimed it as uninsured or anything else.

    Feel free to be amazed and impressed that less than 3% of the population signed up when offered heavily subsidized insurance that ignored existing issues and/or faced a substantial tax penalty if they didn't sign up. Maybe in a few more months we will get some hard figures on the number of people who paid for a policy and what the demographics are.

    Parent

    On the date the ACA became fully (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Anne on Sat Mar 29, 2014 at 09:51:50 AM EST
    effective, it did not strip existing insurance from the 85% of people who already had it; we were not starting at zero, with 316 million people becoming uninsured and needing to get insurance.

    To continue to use 316 million as the denominator of a fraction in order to make the resulting percentage as small as possible is just plain dishonest.

    As has been pointed out to you many times, we still don't know how many of the 6-7 million of people who have enrolled in insurance plans are newly-insured or replacing their old plans with new ones.

    If you decided to assume that these are newly-insured people, 6 - 7 million people divided by the 47 million people estimated to be uninsured translates to 12%.  Reducing the number of insured by 7 million also reduces the percentage of the total population that is uninsured from 15% to 12%.

    When we get more numbers, you can play with them all you want, but right now, you're clearly using the numbers in a way that works for whatever your agenda is.

    Even though I opposed the plan as it was being put together - not because it was going to help people, but because it was being built on a private insurance model that had already proved itself dysfunctional and a primary reason we had a "crisis," and wasn't going to achieve the goal I felt we needed to be going for: affordable, accessible health CARE for all - I am not blind to this: more people have insurance.  And for many of them, it's the first time.  Those people have something they never had before - something that paves the way for them to get the care they need.  They don't have to dread being asked if they have insurance, and get "the look" - you know, the one that says, "oh, great - someone else who can't pay."

    Will it ultimately turn out that we haven't done enough, that the ACA isn't going to help enough people?  I think so.  But in the meantime, I'm rooting for it to work for as many people as possible, for as long as possible, because that's what we have to work with, and people's lives depend on it.

    Parent

    Feel free ... (none / 0) (#156)
    by Yman on Sat Mar 29, 2014 at 09:55:30 AM EST
    ... to try to minimize the percentage by using an inflated population for which the the legislation was not designed.  Oh, wait ...

    ... you already did.

    Parent

    I am completely impressed (none / 0) (#157)
    by MO Blue on Sat Mar 29, 2014 at 10:20:47 AM EST
    with the absolute lack of  logic and honesty that you use in looking at any and all issues.

    Of course you never claimed that  your 316 million number was the number of the uninsured but you did use that number in an attempt to dishonestly distort the sign up rate. In this comment you continue to use totally fraudulent percentages.

    As stated previously by more than one person, the fact that you choose to use the total population only highlights your complete and absolute lack of knowledge combined with your inability to engage in any kind of honest debate.

    If you ever decide to go beyond your need to make stuff up, you might want to start by identifying the actual number of the small segment of the population who are eligible to use the exchange.


    Parent

    It was the stated goal (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 10:25:20 PM EST
    For enrolles by the end of March that few bought would be met given the disastrous rollout..   But I agree.  It's only a start.

    Parent
    Percent of 316 million? (none / 0) (#95)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 07:28:29 AM EST
    Really bad math . 316 million people were not without insuance prior to the start up of the legislation.A number so grossly exagerated  would not be used by anyone who wanted to have a honest discussion of the subject.

    Distorting the number by more than 266 million is not anything new for you so no surprise.

    Parent

    And (none / 0) (#97)
    by jbindc on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:05:52 AM EST
    the "6 millions enrollees" contains many, many people who previously had insurance.

    Parent
    So? (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:39:59 AM EST
    Apparently you are on the cheering section along with the GOP for ACA to fail.

    In your case not such strange bedfellows.

    Parent

    There are also up to 6 million more (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by CoralGables on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:27:39 AM EST
    that enrolled outside the exchanges based on extrapolated numbers from the only state that has numbers for that (Washington), plus Medicaid's new enrollment that may have the actual total number of new healthcare enrollees from the ACA (private, exchanges, Medicaid) closer to 15 million.

    (That's the pollyannaish number to counteract your habitually pessimistic approach)

    Parent

    And the difference between (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by MO Blue on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 10:03:01 AM EST
    "MANY" and  266 million is quite substantial. In fact, there is no real comparison.

    There are enough honest  ways to criticize this legislation without grossly distorting the facts or making faulty comparisons.

    Parent

    That is (5.00 / 2) (#108)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 10:35:12 AM EST
    the truth. I'm so sick and tired of the gloom and doom. It's not like there aren't legitimate problems but dayum this over the top it's the end of the world stuff gets really tiresome.

    Parent
    Sad (none / 0) (#160)
    by Mikado Cat on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 02:49:04 PM EST
    You can't grasp something this simple. 316 million people live in America according to the 2013 census estimate. When offered subsidized healthcare that ignored previous conditions, and faced with a tax penalty if they did not sign up, 7 million signed up over what 5 months?

    Obama does delay after delay, waiver after waiver, two months after he shut down the government rather than even discuss a delay.

    How can people be so blind to how Obamacare is rolling out? Is it too great a leap of logic to realize those with the most to gain will make up the bulk of those signing up? Next come the huge rate hikes and taxpayer funds going to insurance companies when "magic" failed to happen.

    Parent

    We grasp what is simple (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by MO Blue on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 04:06:28 PM EST
    In your comments without the slightest bit of difficulty. Sad that you  don't realize it.

    Now let's try and deal with reality instead of with some scenario  that you have made up. How many of the 316 million are eligible for subsidized insurance on the exchange? How many  of the 316 million will be faced with a tax penalty if they do not get insurance?

    Parent

    Holy mother of God. I can't believe (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Anne on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 08:00:49 PM EST
    you are still trying to make this argument.

    Of the 316 million people in this country, some 269 million already had insurance - many of them through their employers; some 49 million people are insured via Medicare.

    "Obamacare" did not come with a promise of subsidy for everyone - did you know that?  Subsidies are only available through the exchanges, and only to those meeting the income eligibility levels.

    Maybe your arguments work among the people with whom you associate, but continuing to make them here, in the face of actual facts, and reality-based math, is showing you to be someone whose comments from this point should just be ignored.

    Parent

    Ender's Game (5.00 / 1) (#104)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:43:20 AM EST
    Saw a payperview last night that got me thinking.   Not what I expected.   I love big budget effects movies.   Watch them all the time and worked on them for many years but they don't usually make me think.
    A few have, Bladerunner, Minority Report - both P.K.Dick - but both slick beautifully produced and sophisticated.   Ender's Game not so much.   It is very straight forward in its presentation.  In a future world when war has become something  fought on video screens children, who's minds and fingers are faster, are the ones tapped to fight them.  When you think about our forces sitting in dark rooms manning drones and who are only a couple of years older .....
    Made me curious about the book so I googled

    Critics have received Ender's Game well. The novel won the Nebula Award for best novel in 1985,[10] and the Hugo Award for best novel in 1986,[11] considered the two most prestigious awards in science fiction.[12][13] Ender's Game was also nominated for a Locus Award in 1986.[6] In 1999, it placed #59 on the reader's list of Modern Library 100 Best Novels. It was also honored with a spot on American Library Association's "100 Best Books for Teens." In 2008, the novel, along with Ender's Shadow, won the Margaret A. Edwards Award, which honors an author and specific works by that author for lifetime contribution to young adult literature.[14] Ender's Game was included in Damien Broderick's book Science Fiction: The 101 Best Novels 1985-2010.[15]
    New York Times writer Gerald Jonas asserts that the novel's plot summary resembles a "grade Z, made-for-television, science-fiction rip-off movie", but says that Card develops the elements well despite this "unpromising material". Jonas further praises the development of the character Ender Wiggin: "Alternately likable and insufferable, he is a convincing little Napoleon in short pants."[16]

    The U.S. Marine Corps Professional Reading List makes the novel recommended reading at several lower ranks, and again at Officer Candidate/Midshipman.[17] The book was placed on the reading list by Captain John F. Schmitt, author of FMFM-1 (Fleet Marine Fighting Manual, on maneuver doctrine) for "provid[ing] useful allegories to explain why militaries do what they do in a particularly effective shorthand way."[18] In introducing the novel for use in leadership training, Marine Corps University's Lejeune program opines that it offers "lessons in training methodology, leadership, and ethics as well [....] Ender's Game has been a stalwart item on the Marine Corps Reading List since its inception."[18]

    That last part surprised me because of the very effective and surprising ending.
    Anyway
    Don't be put off from seeing this because it looks like a standard effects extrav

    Btw (none / 0) (#105)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:58:53 AM EST
    The cast is excellent.  Harrison Ford, Ben Kingsley and Viola Davis (who I love) are all great.  As is the lead kid.

    Parent
    Sounds Interesting (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 10:29:23 AM EST
    I just watched the Rodriquez serial From Dusk to Dawn on Amazon...
    Just three episodes to date, so far I think it pretty good.

    But then I am a huge fan of Tarantino and Rodriquez..

    Parent

    Check out (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 11:22:07 AM EST
    The Grindhouse series if you have not.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#111)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 12:03:20 PM EST
    I saw the Tarantino/Rodriguez double feature Death Proof/Grindhouse, which was amazing. I did not know that there was a series..

    Parent
    Actually (none / 0) (#114)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 12:55:58 PM EST
    There may have only been two.

    Parent
    It is the next family read together book (none / 0) (#159)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 01:44:10 AM EST
    We just watched it also.  And we read books out loud as a family as part of unplugging and reconnecting.  For the rest of the year though it is just Josh and me.  After we are done with World War Z we have decided to read Enders Game after seeing the movie.

    We went to 'Divergent' a few nights ago, pretty good and stayed with the story from the book too.

    Parent

    Your family (none / 0) (#162)
    by CaptHowdy on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 04:56:27 PM EST
    Sounds like a great place to be.  

    Parent
    The read together we only started last year (none / 0) (#164)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 08:57:32 PM EST
    Because all the tech everyone is on really gets in the way of sharing family times.  We started with the Hunger Games books, and if anyone had told me when Josh was born that I would be reading about zombies and loving it I would have told them they were crazy.  But the recent books w/movies have combined such great writing and story alongside great film making there is something for everyone in the family in a lot of the recent work.

    When my daughter was small I watched very few movies/books that would have interested her. There was Jurassic Park, but not much else.  Such things were few and far between.

    Parent

    Maybe not for a family read-aloud, (none / 0) (#165)
    by oculus on Sun Mar 30, 2014 at 09:27:47 PM EST
    but a good read:

    Martin Sixsmith's book "The Lost Child of Philomena Lee,

    Parent

    Josh might like it (none / 0) (#166)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 12:58:22 AM EST
    He cares about social issues

    Parent
    Maybe so then. (none / 0) (#167)
    by oculus on Mon Mar 31, 2014 at 01:22:07 AM EST
    Did you pick Florida (none / 0) (#1)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 11:02:38 AM EST
    to win it all?  If so, did you pick them out of emotion and loyalty or because you think they truly are the best team who will win the National Championship?

    (I have them winning in both of my pools, but my brackets are so shot to hell at this point, that it probably doesn't matter).

    Excuse me? (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 11:14:49 AM EST
    Pope Francis: Priests should be `shepherds living with the smell of the sheep'


    Not aquainted with this pope? (none / 0) (#5)
    by NYShooter on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:03:20 PM EST
    Prepare to be amazed.

    He also states that atheists will be welcomed in Heaven.

    Parent

    Which would be great (none / 0) (#8)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:21:16 PM EST
    If we thought there was one.
    I have been pleased with some of his inclinations, like helping the poor.  But as far as I am concerned he is a smiley face on the same two thousand year old patriarchal junk.

    As far as that quote, leaving aside being a sheep - which I get is a religious thing but still find condescending and offensive - that is a pretty hilarious quote.

    Parent

    Howdy, that's unfair, and (none / 0) (#84)
    by NYShooter on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 08:15:16 PM EST
    indicates to me that you simply haven't informed yourself to even a minimum level regarding this man. To criticize Pope Francis this way, taking a quote out of context, and ignoring the quite remarkable initiatives he's undertaken during his brief tenure, now that's "condescending and offensive ."

    Parent
    Nobody ever wins (none / 0) (#90)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 10:30:46 PM EST
    In an argument about religion.  You have your opinion I have mine.  But for what it's worth I know a good deal about him and the church he leads.  I would say that the quote about sex abuse is the most insensitive boneheaded and clueless thg I have ever heard a member of the celargy say on the subject.

    Parent
    And I assume (none / 0) (#91)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 10:36:58 PM EST
    The quote about sheep is what you are referring to because the one about sex was certainly not taken out of context.

    Parent
    Actually, I have to apologize (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by NYShooter on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 12:55:48 AM EST
    I haven't been posting much these past few months, nor have I been keeping up to date on events. Apparently, the Pope Francis I left months ago came back to me as some kind of aberrant mutation. Normally, I would have said the "higher ups" got to him and his revolutionary displays of humanity. Unfortunately, he's as higher up as they come, and, he sure as He!! ain't the guy I, and many others were praising to the sky just a little while ago.

    I don't know what happened during that time but it smells pretty rotten.

    Amazing, isn't it. A church does something good, and we go nuts because....well, its so rare.

    Anyway, my bubble got popped, but good, while the Military/Religious/Financial Corporatocracy keeps chugging along.

    Parent

    I was very hopeful too (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:00:11 AM EST
    At first.  But I think you nailed it.  We had set a pretty low bar.  And he is an improvement I guess .   Better the 18th century than the 12th.

    Parent
    Yes, there are shepherds and (none / 0) (#45)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:41:00 PM EST
    then there are shepherds.  Pope Francis accepted the resignation of the previously suspended German bishop, Franz-Peter Tebartz van Elst.  Nothing cheesy about the bishop of Limberg: He poured about $43 million into the renovation of his residence, with a bathtub that cost $20,000 as well as  church buildings including his private chapel where he cut a hole in the roof to accommodate a giant cross.      Just too much blinging  and not enough shepherding , although with his name, flocking it does not seem up his alley.

    The Atlanta archdiocese was the beneficiary of the estate of Joseph Mitchell, a nephew of Margaret Mitchell.  The multimillion dollar  bequest, including a share of the literary rights to "Gone with the Wind," has been used to build a new mansion for the Archbishop in an expensive area of Atlanta (a tear down of Joseph Mitchell's home and construction of a $2.2 million residence).

    Moreover, the old archbishop's mansion was purchased by the Cathedral parish to be renovated for use by Cathedral parish priests, for over $2 million.

     When criticized for extravagant expenditures,  the Cathedral pastor claimed the space was needed for living arrangements, and the Archbishop claimed that his new residence, in keeping with the Pope, allows him to smell like the flock, to have a place where he can more easily mingle with church members.  A place to have BBQ's.   (Maybe, lamb chops on the grill)

    The Archbishop reminded critics that he does not own the mansion, but that it belongs to a "higher power"  although he did not show the warranty deed.  

    Parent

    Why didn't the present pope stop construction (5.00 / 2) (#47)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:44:45 PM EST
    on these expensive projects?

    Parent
    I have a better one (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:58:55 PM EST
    Why did he sy this

    'No-one has done more than Church' against sex abuse: Pope

    Last month, the United Nations denounced the Vatican for failing to stamp out child abuse and allowing systematic cover-ups, calling on the Church to remove clergy suspected of raping or molesting children.
    It accused the Vatican of systematically placing the "preservation of the reputation of the Church and the alleged offender over the protection of child victims" -- an accusation which was heatedly rebuffed.

    Parent

    Maybe, the line of (none / 0) (#56)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:02:03 PM EST
    demarcation is $42 million. Good to stay under.  Although, the Bishop of Newark got in dutch with his flock for spending just $500,000 for an addition to his country house in anticipation of his retirement.  As for the Atlanta Archbishop, his name has been mentioned as a possible successor to the retiring Cardinal George, Archbishop of Chicago.  It will be interesting to see how that works out for him.

    Parent
    NPR (none / 0) (#88)
    by Mikado Cat on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 09:27:54 PM EST
    had a lot of Pope in the news today, according to one of the guests this Pope believes in more local authority.

    Interesting bit on the effect of his denouncing the Mafia, who are apparently fairly religious.

    Parent

    The Supreme Court (none / 0) (#3)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 11:17:50 AM EST
    once again considers when prior state convictions result in federal penalties.

    From SCOTUSblog:

    ISSUE: Whether the respondent's Tennessee conviction for misdemeanor domestic assault by intentionally or knowingly causing bodily injury to the mother of his child qualifies as a conviction for a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9).

    Background - Adam Liptak

    Answer, yes (9-0):

    ...As I explained in my preview of the case, the question before the Justices was whether James Castleman's state conviction for "misdemeanor domestic assault," arising out of an incident involving the mother of his child, qualifies as a "misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" under federal law, thereby prohibiting him from having a gun.

    In an opinion by Justice Sonia Sotomayor, yesterday the Court held that it does.   The Court began its decision by reiterating that domestic violence is pervasive; this pervasiveness, combined with the danger created when guns and domestic violence mix, was what prompted Congress to enact the gun prohibition in 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(9).  In particular, the Court explained, Congress wanted to "close a dangerous loophole" in prior restrictions on gun possession that often resulted when perpetrators of domestic violence are convicted of misdemeanors, rather than felonies.

    Basically, the Supreme Court said it is a crime for people convicted of domestic violence to possess a gun.

    Not half as scared as the NCAA is... (none / 0) (#4)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 11:18:19 AM EST
    with the NLRB decsion and lawsuits;)

    Was talking about the "student-athelete"/"indentured servant" thing with a co-worker this morning, he had an interesting compromise.  Small stipend for revenue generating athletes, and they get the right to market themselves for jersey sales and video games and sponsorships and what not.  I thought it was a pretty good idea, and would still be an absolute steal for the NCAA money machine.

    I always thought (none / 0) (#6)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:07:35 PM EST
    Student-athletes should get a small stipend.  They aren't allowed to work generally, so in exchange for staying in school and passing their classes, they should get some money for things like toiletries, pizza, going out, etc.

    Parent
    They should... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 01:12:30 PM EST
    but its not nearly enough in relation to the revenue they generate.

    I thought allowing them to market themselves would be the perfect compromise that would allow the NCAA to maintain their "student athlete" charade, and let the talent get some real cheddar. As well as a percentage of jersey sales and video game money, etc.  It's preposterous that not only do the players play for a slave wage, but they can't even control their own likeness and identity.  

    Parent

    I don't think they should get tons (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 01:17:09 PM EST
    They are, for the most part, getting a free ride to college plus room and board, food, and books.  That's worth $50-$100 K easily.

    Parent
    Approx. 23k on average actually... (none / 0) (#18)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 01:39:39 PM EST
    according to the Drexel University/NCPA study I referenced yesterday...and the revenue they generate is in the billions.

    Same study, fwiw, estimates the fair market value of the average college football player at 120 grand a year, and the average basketball player at 265 grand a year.

    In a free market system, they should get "tons".

    Parent

    I think we're leaving something out of (none / 0) (#30)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:38:02 PM EST
    the equation: what it costs to run an athletic program year after year after year, how the revenue benefits the academic side of the institution and how much of it goes to endowment to fund scholarships and grants for non-athletes.

    To point out just a few things that seem to have been overlooked.

    I'm not suggesting that athletes be the equivalent of indentured servants, nor do I think they should not get a say in what their coaches require of them.

    But I also think that both sides - the athletes on one side and the educational institution on the other - need to answer some essential questions: is athletics the means by which students are able to get an affordable education, or is athletics one of the means by which colleges and universities fund the education of the entire student body?

    Where does education come into this?  Does it come into this? Should it come into this?

    And what would it mean for, say, some of the sports that not as many people are lining up to see?  For track and field, for swimming, for archery and baseball.  What does it mean for women's sports?  

    I just think this is so much more complex than people are willing to admit.

    Parent

    "It's a complicated case Maude... (none / 0) (#35)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:46:15 PM EST
    lotta ins, lotta outs"...no doubt about that.

    Mainly I'm just glad people are starting to take notice about the unfairness of an NCAA system where old white guys make millions & millions and the young kids who have the talent to generate the millions lose their scholarship if someone so much as buys them lunch.

    I don't pretend to have all the answers...but we can at least admit this sh*t is seriously f*cked up, and we better start looking for a way to fix it.

    Parent

    So True (none / 0) (#134)
    by Amiss on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 03:05:17 PM EST
    NT

    Parent
    I daresay Drexel University athletics ... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:40:45 PM EST
    ... does NOT generate billions of dollars in revenues. And for the record, the entire budget of the University of Hawaii athletic department is $31 million, and that covers the costs of all men's and women's programs.

    Just so you fully understand this topic in a proper perspective, and realize that what you are proposing will result in the royally screwing of mid-major NCAA-member institutions like Drexel, Hawaii, Nevada, Akron and Louisiana-Lafayette.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    You misread me... (none / 0) (#36)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:52:37 PM EST
    not just Drexel University (I mentioned their study with the NCPA estimating fair market value for players labor)...I guesstimated billions in revenue total for all NCAA Div I Football & Men's Basketball....the schools, the networks, Nike, etc.

    And again, where you been Don?  In this system smaller schools are already at a serious competitive disadvantage...moreso in football, but in basketball too.  Florida State football doesn't schedule a game against Bethune-Cookman expecting a fair game dude...c'mon.

    Parent

    Commentator on PBS stated the NlRB decision (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:18:39 PM EST
    only applies to for-profit instiutions of higher learning.

    Parent
    The ruling only applies to (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:23:27 PM EST
    Private institutions.

    Parent
    So it would not affect state schools, (none / 0) (#46)
    by Anne on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:41:43 PM EST
    as I understand it.

    Parent
    Where do they get $23K? (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:54:52 PM EST
    Just for grins I randomly picked Ohio State. Average in-state tuition and fees for this school year are about $10,010 and Room and Board is $10,800.  Since many athletes (especially of the bigger programs) are from out of state, the same costs for an out-of-state student would be tuition: $25,726 and room/board: $10,800.

    Multiply those totals by 4 years (assuming costs stay the same).

    In state:  $83,240
    Out-of-state: $146,104

    That's before their books and such are paid for. (And keep in mind that some athletes eat way more than an average student and require more medical care that they are getting).

    That's pretty good pay, which is why I think they should get a stipend for extras, but not a huge paycheck.  You wanna negotiate your pay?  Go take your chances with the pros.

    Parent

    Sounds about right... (none / 0) (#40)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:07:08 PM EST
    140 grand divided by 4 years is 35 grand a year...20 grand a year in-state.  Right around the study average of 23, Ohio State is a pretty expensive school.

    Speaking of medical care...I think NCAA Div. I Football players should get free medical care for life, the damage they are doing to their bodies for their employer/school.

    Parent

    But since this ruling (none / 0) (#51)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:52:12 PM EST
    applies to private institutions, let's look at Northwestern charges $15,040 per quarter for tuition, plus $3000 (per year) for a required health insurance plan, plus various fees, plus an average of $5300 for meals (per year), plus about $10,000 per year for a room.

    Besides that - these athletes get a world-class education.

    Parent

    What a rip-off! (none / 0) (#55)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:59:30 PM EST
    But that's a whole 'nother topic.

    Parent
    My daughter's full-ride scholarship ... (none / 0) (#50)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:50:03 PM EST
    ... for D-1 volleyball probably saved us about $100,000 in college expenses, at least.

    So, do we pay college football and basketball players, and then invoice them for the costs of tuition, books, room and board, etc.?

    Parent

    That works... (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:04:55 AM EST
    the workers aka "student athletes" will come out way ahead if they're paid anything close to fair market value.

    Parent
    Do you set up a two-tier level ... (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:20:17 PM EST
    ... of compensation, one for the athletes in so-called revenue-generating sports and one for everyone else? What happens if the athletic department loses money overall? Does the football team take a pay cut, or do they demand the football revenues go only toward the football program and not subsidize other school sports teams and athletes? How about the offer of signing bonuses for the blue-chip athletes on the letter-of-intent day -- do we allow that, too?

    Speaking as someone who played D-1 college sports, this ruling is just so much bull$H!+. I've said this before, and apparently it bears repeating: This will accelerate the growth of the gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" of the NCAA, and risks turning college football and college men's basketball into a de facto farm system for major league sports, only the colleges get to pick up the tab. It's an invitation to corruption on a grand scale, a la SMU in the 1980s, in which wealthy alumni and donors are encouraged to buy their school a championship.

    Further, only a relative handful of institutions generate the type of enormous revenues from the type of major athletic events you're talking about. Most schools are not like USC and Ohio State, and actually consider themselves lucky if their athletic departments can break even each fiscal year. Compelling them to pay student-athletes as though they were employees will cause numerous athletic programs to collapse under the resultant financial burden. Within a decade, many will likely decide to drop intercollegiate sports altogether as a result, and return to local club-level / intramural competition, the way it was back in the early 20th century.

    This is is a horribly ill-considered ruling on the part of the NTSB, which holds enormous potential to cause tremendous upheaval at all levels of collegiate sports -- and not necessarily for the better. Those college athletes seeking a big payday should instead declare themselves eligible for the various pro sports drafts, rather than trash an already flawed system for entirely selfish reasons, and at the ultimate expense of most of their fellow college athletes, who will not be turning pro after school and whose playing careers will likely end when they graduate.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Hate to break it to you Don... (5.00 / 3) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:37:05 PM EST
    but Div I Football & Basketball are already de-facto farm systems for the pro leagues.  

    Due to what I believe to be collusion between the NCAA and the NBA/NFL, basketball & football players can't go right to the NBA due to the minimum age requirements.

    With all due respect your trying to preserve a fantasy, and ignoring inherent unfairness and exploitation.

    But I got another compromise proposal for you...how about the NCAA athletics can only broadcast collegiate sports commercial free on PBS? They can't sell jerseys, they can't endorse video games, etc. etc. etc.  If the players can't get the fruit of their labor, then nobody can...would that work for you?

    Parent

    Health Care (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by MKS on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 08:37:28 AM EST
    That is what one of the student athlete groups has asked for.  Not salaries.  But medical care for injuries while in school and for care of those injuries after school too.

    Parent
    And they should absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by Zorba on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 12:21:42 PM EST
    receive this.
    I don't understand why this isn't already a given.  The athletes are putting their "bodies on the line" for a school-sanctioned activity, and if they are injured, then the school should be on the hook to ensure that they get the medical care and associated help they need, for as long as necessary, even if it is for the rest of their lives, depending upon the injury.

    Parent
    I am completely with you kdog :) (none / 0) (#31)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:39:12 PM EST
    Then my recommendation to ... (none / 0) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:21:19 PM EST
    ... the majority of colleges who will lose money here will be to drop college sports.

    You best realize, kdog, that most D-1 collegiate athletic programs do NOT support themselves by virtue of their own revenues generated, and actually require significant institutional and / or public subsidies from outside the realm of college sports in order to keep them viable at that level.

    The University of Louisville has to subsidize the Cardinal athletics to the tune of $10.7 million annually. At the University of Virginia, Cavalier sports requires a $13.1 million infusion above and beyond the $80.8 million in revenues generated. At UC-Berkeley, it's $9.5 million. Florida State, it's $%7.8 million.

    At my alma mater Washington, it's $3 million. Here in Hawaii, it's $13.6 million. U.S. taxpayers subsidize Air Force Falcon athletics to the tune of $27.5 million annually. At Central Florida, Golden Knight athletics were $22 million in the red in 2012. And Rutgers University of New Jersey currently shells out an additional $27 million annually to Scarlet Knight athletics.

    In fact, the ONLY NCAA D-1 college athletic programs that were completely self-sustaining financially in 2012 are as follows: Texas, Ohio State, LSU, Penn State, Oklahoma, Nebraska, and Purdue. That's it -- a sum total of seven schools, out of 228 NCAA D-1 institutions nationwide.

    So, please don't insult me by telling me that I'm living in a fantasy world. I spent too many years in the legislature and balancing fiscal budgets for that.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Take it up the AD's Don... (none / 0) (#48)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:45:24 PM EST
    who told Louisville they had to pay Rick Pitino 5 million a year.  Surely they can find a coach to do it for 75k, that knocks off half their phoney "deficit" right there!

    Parent
    Add... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:55:04 PM EST
    since you're a budget expert, maybe you can riddle me this...where the f8ck is all this money going?  Is there an embezzler in the NCAA house?

    Parent
    Amazing stat; (none / 0) (#54)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:59:03 PM EST
    4) Wagers: What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, especially if it involves an unlucky March Madness bet. Americans wager an estimated $7 billion a year on the tournament. That's $1 billion more than the Super Bowl.


    Parent
    Most of that money goes to ... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:41:48 PM EST
    ... the media. Each NCAA member school will further receive a defined percentage of the revenues generated by the NCAA tourney, which is based both upon the number of participants their respective conferences field in the tournament itself, and how far each participant advances. Wichita State's presence in last year's Final Four resulted in a nice little payday for each member of the Missouri Valley Conference, regardless of how and where they finished in the regular season and post-season.

    Parent
    Well, good luck with that, dude. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:30:50 PM EST
    If you really think it's all that simple, that Louisville can just dispense with Coach Pitino and replace him with a guy at $75K annual compensation, then I think you're sadly mistaken with regards to who's living in a fantasy world.

    This is simply the hard fiscal reality facing intercollegiate athletics across the country today, in which most university athletic departments (both public and private) require substantial subsidization, often in excess of 25% of their annual operating budgets. Louisville is actually somewhat on the low end, at a 12.4% subsidy. Same with North Carolina State and Arizona State, which require subsidies of 17% and 9%, respectively.

    But on the other end of the spectrum at UConn, it's 29%. Maryland, it's 25.5%. Oregon State athletics receive a 31% subsidy above and beyond its gross revenues received. At Miami-Ohio, it's 78%. UNLV, it's 55%. At the Air Force Academy, it's 61%. At West Point, it's 35%.

    For most D-1 schools, the requirement that athletes be paid at least on par with school employees will prove a deal-breaker regarding their participation in intercollegiate athletics. And let's be real here. While the NLRB ruling is presently exclusive to private schools only, does anyone seriously believe that it won't also be extended to cover public schools eventually?

    At public institutions in particular, administrators will be very hard-pressed to offer a reasonable explanation to cash-strapped state legislatures and skeptical taxpayers as to why they need an additional 15-20% to cover those costs. And at that point, the hard decisions will be made at the legislative level to start shutting down public university athletic programs as a cost-saving measure, and campus life as students have come to know it for several generations will be all the poorer for it.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Oops, I meant the "NLRB," and ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:28:18 PM EST
    "This is a horribly ill-considered ruling on the part of the NTSB[.]"

    ... not the National Transportation Safety Board.

    Parent

    A ruling by the NTSB (none / 0) (#38)
    by jbindc on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:55:27 PM EST
    Would make for a great legal challenge.  :)

    Parent
    All good bro.. (none / 0) (#39)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:59:01 PM EST
    I'm typo-ing up a storm myself...hope that doesn't violate Rule 78 Subsection J Paragraph 4 and we lose our scholarships! ;)

    Parent
    I do like that merchandising aspect (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:43:17 PM EST
    because I am worried about how some other type of compensation would be distributed. Do they all get the same amount of payment, regardless of ability? That does not seem fair, yet neither does it seem fair to make it otherwise at the point in their careers where developing their skills as team players is important.

    the marketing of jerseys, etc, seems a a cautious enough first step.

    the system as it is now...I don't like. The people really making the money are the TV networksa, not the colleges or players.

    Parent

    I agree... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:33:31 PM EST
    equal payment is unfair too, but at least it's something more equitable than the status quo...and the star players can make up by the difference if they are allowed to market themselves.

    The TV is where the real money is at, you're right.  Last contract for NCAA Basketball with CBS & Turner was worth 10.8 billion.  Actors get paid, sh*t even reality tv people get paid (for what talent I can't tell you;), but the actors in this 10.8 billion dollar show get a measley scholarship and a rulebook the size of the yellow pages.

    Parent

    It seems to me that (none / 0) (#67)
    by Zorba on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:08:52 PM EST
    One of the main things that the college players' organization/proto-union/ whatever is concerned about is that the NCAA will take care of the medical needs and care of those athletes who are seriously injured, and may have injuries that will impact them for life.
    That would seem to me to be the least that the NCAA could do for college players who sustain traumatic brain injuries and other serious injuries.
    It's not just the pros who get seriously injured.  College athletes do, too.  And so do high school athletes, for that matter.  Males and females both.
    A football-related fatality has occurred every year from 1945 through 1999, except for 1990. Head-related deaths accounted for 69% of football fatalities,A football-related fatality has occurred every year from 1945 through 1999, except for 1990. Head-related deaths accounted for 69% of football fatalities, cervical spinal injuries for 16.3%, and other injuries for 14.7%. High school football produced the greatest number of football head-related deaths. From 1984 through 1999, 69 football head-related injuries resulted in permanent disability. Sixty-three of the injuries were associated with high school football and 6 with college football. Although football has received the most attention, other sports have also been associated with hea a variety of sports. Track and field, baseball, and cheerleading had the highest incidence of these catastrophic injuries. Three deaths and 3 injuries resulting in permanent disability have occurred in female participants. cheerleading had the highest incidence of these catastrophic injuries. From 1982 through 1999, 20 deaths and 19 permanent disability injuries occurred in a variety of sports. Track and field, baseball, and cheerleading had the highest incidence of these catastrophic injuries. Three deaths and 3 injuries resulting in permanent disability have occurred in female participants.

    Link.

    This is a subject that is rarely addressed, either at the college, or at the high school level.

    Parent

    Ronan Farrow (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:29:12 PM EST
    I find him intriguing and annoying.  I would totally do him.  I was trying to find out if he is gay which it turns out is not entirely clear.  At least as far as my ADHD Google search revealed.  I learned he is the son of Mia Farrow and supposedly either Woody Allen or Frank Sinatra.   There seems to be some question on this point.   So I will just say this, consider what we know.

    "THIS IS NO DREAM.  THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING"

    Well (none / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:52:22 PM EST
    all that could be solved with a DNA test but maybe they've done it and don't want the results to be public?

    Parent
    Well, I don't need no stink'n DNA test. (none / 0) (#27)
    by KeysDan on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:32:29 PM EST
    When Ronan was asked what he was going to be for Halloween, he said that he was going as "a Wolf Blitzer in sheep's clothing"     That's a positive on the wit test--its Woody Allen.

    Parent
    My daughter says Sinatra (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:29:41 PM EST
    I like him too, not annoyed though yet.  Not that that means anything, I mean I bought Nate Silver's book and digested it.  

    Parent
    I don't know how to ask this, (none / 0) (#28)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:32:29 PM EST
    but considering the discussion is both about his parentage and his sexuality, I guess it is not out of bounds....is something wrong with his arms/hands? They look a little short when I see him on talk shows.

    He is quite bright and personable. Withholding judgement on 'doing him' pending arms/hands issue.

    Parent

    Never noticed this (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 03:49:31 PM EST
    Setting the DVD now since I can't deal with daytime cable.

    Parent
    May instead of Satan (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:08:19 PM EST
    His father is a T-rex

    Parent
    Is that a Rosemary's Baby reference? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:40:29 PM EST
    You are subtle!

    Parent
    Or Mr. Allen? (none / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:45:03 PM EST
    I think he's Satan but mileage varies and all that

    Did anyone consider Sinatra Satan?  I am too young to know :)

    Parent

    Sinatra as Satan? (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by unitron on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 08:09:47 PM EST
    Opinions varied.

    Here's a profile of him from '66 that's considered a classic.

    FRANK SINATRA HAS A COLD

    Parent

    My money is on Frank. (none / 0) (#65)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:50:08 PM EST
    He's not enough of a shlemiel.  Tho that might explain the short arms.

    Parent
    My daughter says she sees Sinatra in him (none / 0) (#66)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:52:43 PM EST
    I am only able to see his mother so far.

    Parent
    And what does it say about Mia Farrow, ... (none / 0) (#69)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:14:12 PM EST
    ... who received from her ex-lover Woody Allen a substantive sum over the years in court-ordered child support for Ronan, only to intimate publicly after her son reached adulthood that Frank Sinatra -- and not Allen -- was actually his father?

    Given that Ms. Farrow may well have consciously perjured herself in New York Family Court -- at Allen's ultimate expense -- regarding the exact nature and circumstances of Ronan's parentage, I'd offer that she's not exactly a candidate for sainthood herself.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I'm telling ya (none / 0) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:22:01 PM EST
    It's satan.

    He don't pay child support

    Parent

    I didn't think the quote (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:45:13 PM EST
    In the original comment was that subtle but no one seemed to be picking up on it

    Parent
    I have expended 15 minutes + of my (none / 0) (#75)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:22:56 PM EST
    allotted lifespan with no definitive answer. Please reveal the answer.

    Parent
    Rosemary's Baby (none / 0) (#76)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:27:49 PM EST
    Mia is impregnated my satan.  

    Is that what you mean?

    Parent

    I thought their was a famous connection btwn Frank (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by oculus on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:34:51 PM EST
    _and short arms and schlemiel

    Parent
    Which btw (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:32:54 PM EST
    Is hilariously recreated in the recent Seth Rogan movie "this is the end" in which a whole bunch of Hollywood actors play themselves in an Armageddon comedy.

    It's Channing Tatums best role.   Hands down.

    And bottoms up.

    Parent

    I didn't catch it, but googled it (none / 0) (#81)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 07:54:04 PM EST
    Well played sir!

    Parent
    LOL, and snorting in my cube (none / 0) (#60)
    by ruffian on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 04:39:11 PM EST
    Donovan vs. Alford (none / 0) (#14)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 12:58:55 PM EST
    I think this is going to be a memorable coaches duel, as well. Donovan has the titles as a coach, Alford had his as a player (while also, it must be noted, playing for a literal sociopath in Bobby Knight -- *and on a side note, how satisfying is it that Pat Knight was a certifiably horrible coach and obvious anachronistic asswipe now never to head coach again? Daddy taught him "well")

    I think this is going to be the best game of the sweet 16. College hoops at its finest with two very good, very high b-ball IQ, very well coached teams.

    That said...GO BRUINS!!!

    And go SDSU too, but I just can't take them tonight. Arizona is playing WAY better than when they beat SDSU at Viejas early in the season, and I am still not sold on SDSU having any reliable halfcourt offense beyond Xavier Thames doing his NBA thing, which is awesome, but you have to have more than that. Or maybe he'll Isiah Thomas it to the title. You never know.

    And go Stanford, too. Gonna be a 10 or 11 seed in the Elite 8 guaranteed. Always good to have an underdog. Although Dayton would be the bigger one.

    Peace.

    The 2006-2007 teams (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 02:21:11 PM EST
    were significantly better than these.

    Those Gator teams were, imo, the best college basketball teams of the last 20 years.

    The UCLA teams were also extremely good.

    But it should be a great game for non fans to watch.

    Us fans will be sweating and nervous I think.

    Parent

    But those UCLA teams were coached... (none / 0) (#72)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 05:33:19 PM EST
    ...by Ben Howland who, IMO, completely failed at UCLA. Went far with Lavin's players, but after that, mostly, pfft.

    I agree about the FL team, but because UCLA is better player-wise than they were then (the game I remember wasn't as close as the score, if I recall), and WAAAAY better coaching-wise, I think it's going to be a better game on the whole.

    I really do want SDSU to upset Arizona, like I said, I just can't go there with my head. Heart yes, head not a chance.

    Parent

    Good Lord, my analysis sucks (none / 0) (#79)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:43:14 PM EST
    My point, ultimately, and which I never managed to make clear, is that I think FL is going to win this game. But I think UCLA will put up a much better fight than when Howland was coach when they were, on the whole, inept as a team offense.

    Parent
    Now I think I'm full of sh*t (none / 0) (#80)
    by Dadler on Thu Mar 27, 2014 at 06:44:45 PM EST
    UCLA is going to win.

    I'm so confused.

    I never shoulda put a c-note on this game. My bankroll is the size of a hazelnut.

    Parent

    Your (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Amiss on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 05:14:43 AM EST
    Bankroll should be better now, Gators won.

    Parent
    Holder sez (none / 0) (#101)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:18:28 AM EST
    US will recognize Michigan marriages

    Snyder Takes One For the Team (none / 0) (#103)
    by squeaky on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 09:31:21 AM EST
    Checkmate in two.

    Parent
    I know you do criminal law (none / 0) (#120)
    by labrat on Fri Mar 28, 2014 at 02:22:16 PM EST