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Monday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 11:38:18 AM EST
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I'll be back to blogging this evening. In the meantime, here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Monday Open Thread | 219 comments (219 topical)
    FOX News is really ramping up the .... (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:05:24 PM EST
    Michael Brown misinformation to prevent its viewers from sympathizing with his mourners at his funeral today.

    Misleading to say Brown "unarmed"

    Holder "picking sides" by going to Ferguson

    Yeah....great idea (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:09:43 PM EST
    Fox News' George Wallace moment

    Parent
    If only (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:14:52 PM EST
    It was a "moment" and not a mission statement.

    Parent
    Lots of talk about voting (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:22:49 PM EST
    Talk about voter registration at many of the demonstrations.  A huge coming together of America's black community.  How can they get as far out on the opposite side of history as they are?  That's just the lunatic fringe where they are today.

    I know, they are completely out of their minds.  We've all known it.  And they've shown us all their a$$ many many times.  I really wasn't prepared to discover that their penis is this small though :)

    Parent

    Does that mean the governor (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:19:07 PM EST
    "picked sides" by not going?

    I don't understand how people can actually watch that Fox garbage; the day Fox News goes into the toilet will be the day I feel like we're finally making some progress against the forces of stupidity.

    Parent

    Sorry Ann, Fox isn't going anywhere (4.00 / 0) (#84)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:55:46 PM EST
    What you need to ask yourself is why do so many people watch Fox?

    The answer is because it is a direct counter to what many perceive is a media slant in the other direction.

    That's the reality that Fox haters can't seem to grasp.

    Without the crap from the other side Fox wouldn't be necessary.

    They fill a void and spew out what they spew because garbage is spewed in the other direction.  Because their the only ones that do they get huge ratings.

    Not everything they say is garbage, and vice verse but so attuned are you to not liking them you see what you want and put a pox on the entire house.

    There's a reason they have the top 10 or so programs in cable news.   People are tired of the same old slant in the other direction.   Equally disturbing to me for a whole host of reasons.

    Parent

    The (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:06:30 PM EST
    reason why people watch Fox is becasue it reinforces their already biased perceptions and because it's very good at dumbing down the news to the lowest common demoninator allowing people to turn off their brain. I've even had people admit this to me believe it or not. My brother says he watches Fox because it makes him "feel better".

    And I am sick and tired of conservatives whining about the "liberal media". They are so convinced that they are victims of the media not their own stupidity it's laughable. Go after the media for being inaccurate but they won't do that because if they did, Fox would have the biggest target on their back. At least with mainstream media they feel they have a responsbility to correct the record if they make a mistake. Fox feels no compunction. They just double down on their false information or just stop reporting it never issuing a correction. There's nothing wrong with conservative news or watching it if that's what you want to watch but when you've got a news organization creating more or less a cult you've got a problem.

    Parent

    Boo hoo (2.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:35:29 PM EST
    You do see the ironic double standard you're imposing don't you?

    Basically I can boil your argument down to I'm right, you're wrong.

    Everyone who watches Faux news is a hick white person clinging to their guns, and I'd guess I'd answer anyone who watches the other networks is a commie loving America hater.

    Now what?

    I only watch one Fox News program by the way.  Special Report with Bret Bair.   Can't stand the others and I can't stomach MSNBC or CNN and the networks are just pointless mindless dribble at this point.

    This hyper fascination by some on the left with Fox News is simply childish in my view.  As is the fascination by many on the right with the MSM.  All news is slanted, all news makes mistakes and all news says outlandish things to fill airtime.    

    If you're not smart enough to see through it or level headed enough to think around it then you're just looking to make yourself feel better about yourself by calling names.

    Parent

    You are (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:52:30 PM EST
    putting words in my mouth. I never said it was hicks but I did say it is dumbed down. I mean even they admit that is their business model--to use the National Equirer business model for news. C'mon even Fox admits that it's their viewing audience. Whatever happened to the William Buckleys who could debate the issues? Truly Fox News hurts conservatives because instead of competing it's retreating. But I really do not care. If that is how conservatives want it to be then fine. Whatever. Have at it. They can shoot themselves in the foot. FYI I do not like MSNBC either.

    Parent
    So many people watch Fox.... (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:09:25 PM EST
    because it feeds their fantasies of what is going on in the world.

    People, including Mitt Romney himself, couldn't actually believe that Obama linked Benghazi to an act of terror the day after, or that Obama would actually win on election day.  Fox is an alternate reality. It's like those Harlequin pirate-p0rn books except for politics.

    Go back to comment #1 of this thread where Fox is saying that its misleading to say Brown was unarmed. WTF?!

    Parent

    Would you like a list (5.00 / 0) (#128)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:37:12 PM EST
    of the stupid things said on MSNBC?

    Or CNN?

    Or NPR?

    Or CBS?

    Or ABC?

    Or NBC?

    About the only straight outlet is CSPAN and it's unwatchable.

    Parent

    That's kind of beside (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:56:47 PM EST
    the point. They all do wrong stuff. The problem with Fox is that they don't correct themselves therefore their audience consistently gets the constant rap of being the "least informed". How many Fox viewers probably think Obama is a Muslim? How many viewers of other news think the same thing? I think Fox News viewers are the only ones that thought we found WMDs in Iraq but then something like 67% of Republicans thought the same thing.

    Parent
    yes, if the false equivalency can actually be ... (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:57:05 PM EST
    made equivalent in terms of quantity. Fox dumb-a$$ prejudiced unhinged whackadoo nut-bag hateful evil insane stupid sh!t is 20x what you find on all those other organizations combined (excluding CBS who hired Lara Logan and Sheryl Atkinson who went all FOX with their vomit).

    Parent
    We'll, on the other hand, (none / 0) (#162)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:24:37 PM EST
    And off the current topic, CSPAN covered the Scottish independence debate earlier today between Scottish First Minister, pro-independence Alex Salmons and pro-UK leader Alistair Darling.
    It was pretty interesting.    ;-)

    Parent
    I DVRed the Cspan First Minister's Questions (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:39:18 PM EST
    8 days ago and just watched it today. FM Salmons is a very smart, prepared gentleman.  When asked about the security of private pensions should Scotland vote yes, he read a letter to an employee of the Daily Mail from the financial firm responsible for their pension system, that they anticipated no problems if the vote is pro-independence.

    It was also an opportunity to hear the great gravity of the different varieties of the Scottish accent.  They didn't all sound like Billy Connelly, let's just put it that way.

    Parent

    Scottish accents (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:07:25 PM EST
    Oh, that's absolutely true.  We visited Scotland a couple of months ago.  Absolutely loved it, and the variety of accents was fascinating.
    Of course, we were staying in Edinburgh, but took trips all around the eastern and southern regions, including a venture into the eastern Highlands.
    I found the Glaswegian accent to be somewhat impenetrable.  I didn't feel so bad when some of the citizens of Edinburgh also said that the Glaswegian accent could, yes, be a bit difficult for outsiders.    ;-)
    Speaking with some of the locals, the feeling we got from them was close to 50-50 pro and con independence.  But then, the sample size was very, very small, and they might well have been reluctant to speak their true feelings to Americans.

    Parent
    In that case... (5.00 / 4) (#145)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:09:41 PM EST
    Why do they find it necessary to lie on the air.  Wouldn't a good "counter" be, ya know, truth?

    I know you're aware of this, but just so everyone else understands the context, FOX News sued for the right to lie in a "news" program, arguing that the First Amendment gave them that right, and they won.

    Jim, how many other "news" outlets claim they have a right to lie to the public?  Only way FOX gets away with it is because they are on cable, so they don't need an FCC license.

    Parent

    It's Not News It is Entertainment (none / 0) (#152)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:14:03 PM EST


    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#157)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:37:05 PM EST
    But they call it "FOX News."

    Calling it a "news" channel is just another of the lies they have the right to broadcast.

    I don't find racism and hatred entertaining, but obviously others do.

    Parent

    Fox News® (none / 0) (#160)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:59:38 PM EST
    If the broadcast industry had the same rigorous regulation as the food industry it would have to be Fox Nooze®.

    The equivalent is cheez wiz®...  

    or Velveta® a cheese food, not cheese.

    OK Fox is more like limburger gone bad.

    Parent

    Here's another good take on (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:29:43 PM EST
    the misinformation by Joan Walsh.

    Parent
    I have a problem with how all networks (5.00 / 0) (#60)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:00:15 PM EST
    are covering this.

    Why?  Because every network has taken a side before we even know what happened.

    It's fine for us to take sides and debate the facts of this case (what little are known) because this is a blog and that's the point.

    However you have MSNBC on the one hand allowing a news star to deliver speeaches at the funeral and then you have certain people on Fox pushing the anti MSNBC angle and putting anything and everything out there that counters that narraticve.

    You have talking heads on all networks discussing race relations before we have even the slightest clue that this was about race.  

    None of us, none of us know if this had anything to do with race.  

    Do we as a nation frame anything and everything in terms of race when it fits our particular views?  You bet.  And so for everyone else who wasn't there this has everything to do with race.  

    I have a problem that this incident is being used to discuss race before we even have a clue if it was about it.  

    So eager are both sides to discuss race relations from their viewpoint that race is dragged into this tragedy and debated before anything more then the obvious is known.

    Sure some at Fox are taking a terrible angle on this but for them to do so a uniformed narrative that this WAS ALL about race must first established by MSNBC (for example) and here we go.

    Disgusting all around from my viewpoint.

    But that's the world we live in.   No time to wait for facts.   The narrative must be established quickly then we take sides and throw hay makers at each other from our moral perches.

    That's what's wrong with race discussions in this country.   No patience to wait for real information.   Assumptions are made, lines of race are drawn to fit our previous thoughts and we fire up the talk radio and 24/7 network news machines and get to work.   Facts be dammed.

    Parent

    I agree with a lot of that (none / 0) (#66)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:11:51 PM EST
    Where I depart is that in reality the whole thing has gotten bigger than the one incident.  It has become about race relations.  It's sad that we only as a country discuss the subject as a result of a tragedy.  An that's the way it is.  Someone dies and everyone picks sides.
    Our national ADHD will find a new shiny object soon enough.  That's the tragedy.

    Parent
    Totally agree (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    The poor Brown Family is on cable news living their grief on multiple networks and the cameras and reporters will move on soon.  Once they get their story today I get the bad feeling the media will move on to the next story.

    If found it doubly sad that Treyvon Martin's family is now being interviewed with the Browns.

    All kinds of assumptions and narratives must be written to justify this media storyline.    

    Just sad all around.  


    Parent

    Did you see that (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:44:33 PM EST
    Money is being contributed to Wilson in the name of Treyvon Martin.

    I swear to god.

    Parent

    So you assume (1.25 / 4) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:20:47 PM EST
    that Wilson is a racist and that he murdered Brown.

    That's the only way this can be about race.

    Otherwise we have a police officer engaged in a justified shooting.

    Parent

    Strange the way your mind works... (5.00 / 6) (#76)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:41:07 PM EST
    those aren't the only choices, jim.

    Wilson could just be a bully, a guy who feels important when he puts on the uniform and straps on a gun.  A guy who just likes pushing people around.  

    Or he could just be a swell guy, beloved by the community, who just made a bad decision - or a series of bad decisions.

    Or he could be a mediocre cop, who started on a force with rampant racism and bad policing, excessive force complaints, who moved on to a new department where he'd have felt right at home, who made a series of bad decisions that ended with someone dead in the street like a dog.

    Did Wilson intend to kill Brown?  I think if a cop is shooting, he's shooting to kill.  Did he have to shoot?  Plenty of people seem to think so, but that's not how it looks to me.  And there are plenty of people who share my opinion.

    If you have to keep looking at something through a smaller and smaller lens, there's a good chance you're missing something important in the bigger picture.

    Parent

    Good points (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:50:01 PM EST
    I find it very unlikely that this was a necessary use of force.  But I'm willing to hear an argument to the contrary.

    However I find it very unlikely this had anything to do with race.

    What brought these two together might have had something to do with race as all issues between blacks and whites have something to do with race but we won't know until all the facts are known.   Also I think if we really want to talk about race we both need to look inside our political points of views to really fix it.   We've been avoiding the hard questions for years and from what I've seen we still are.

    Overall I just don't like this being a racial moment when we know so little.

    Jim is entitled to his opinion I guess but his opinion is based on very few facts.   Just as the opinion that Brown was gunned down with his hands up are based on speculation.

    Something terrible happened in that street and a young man died because of it.

    What we should be asking after this based on what we know is when is deadly force by an officer necessary or justified?  

    This is not to me a race question but a use of government power and force question.   Which then leads into aftermath and the ridiculous reality that police forces now feel the need to drag out armored police vehicle to deal with looters.    

    Totally unjustified and the politicians asking the questions now are total hypocrites because they were all for spreading this stuff around before this incident and have been for years.

    Parent

    I don't really disagree with this (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:56:27 PM EST
    However I find it very unlikely this had anything to do with race.

    I have seen cops crack enough white heads to totally believe he might just as likely have done that to a white kid.  PROVIDING it was in the right neighborhood.  South STL sure, Clayton or Creve Coeur.  No fvcking way.  I agree brutality is as much about class as race.
    But
    The reaction by the police and the coverage by the media has been ALL about race.  And for better or worse that's where we are.


    Parent
    Agreed (none / 0) (#115)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:29:45 PM EST
    It's about race now, for better or worse.

    Parent
    While I think race has been a factor in many.... (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:02:44 PM EST
    police brutality and excessive force cases, I think the common denominators are police stress, anger, entitlement, and not liking disrespect.

    I linked a very disturbing youtube video yesterday (sorry for not warning about its disturbing nature) and there were plenty of white people at the wrong end of the brutality.

    Being a cop is a hard job, and if your character isn't exceptional, it'd be easy to dehumanize the people you are there to serve and protect. Regardless, that's exceptional restraint is what we need to demand of the police.

    Trymaine Lee ‏@trymainelee 3h

    Sharpton on bad cops: "We're not the ones making the cops look bad, it's the bad apples you refuse to take out if the bushel."



    Parent
    Race comes in "disrespect" denominator.. (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:13:09 PM EST
    oftentimes, where a white person standing up for his/her rights has a little more leeway. Still, if a white person does the hippie thing at Occupy or on campus, or dare to be homeless....

    Parent
    ... and the reaction of very many (none / 0) (#94)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:24:06 PM EST
    Wilson supporters has been undoubtedly and disgustingly racist. Kos just posted one of Wilson's supporters stating "yeah, this was a good kill" like Brown was a game animal. Ffffff....

    Parent
    You left out one factor: poverty (5.00 / 5) (#95)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:27:40 PM EST
    People at the lower end of the socio-economic spectrum are inherently more likely to be mistreated or unfairly targeted by those in authority, because they have fewer resources with which to push back.

    Parent
    Irony (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:12:24 PM EST
    Because the black people of Ferguson do not have the resources to fight the power, they are targeted for traffic stops (get the f' off the street?) and wind up paying the fines. The poor are paying a disproportionate percentage of Ferguson's budget, because they cannot afford a lawyer.

    Parent
    No argument at all (none / 0) (#109)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:21:32 PM EST
    That there are larger issues and history involved in this case.  

    Parent
    Yup!! Thanks for pointing that out. (none / 0) (#96)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:31:41 PM EST


    Parent
    About Race (5.00 / 5) (#97)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:35:43 PM EST
    I think Race was a very big factor. For one, the police in Ferguson have a record of treating white people differently than black people.

    IMO, If the two people walking down the street were white, I doubt that Wilson would have felt the need to control their behavior.

    I see this double standard frequently in NYC.. In Penn Station RR area you are not allowed to sit on the floor. I have never seen the police ask white people to get up off the floor (there is no other seating except for ticketed Amtrak designated areas) but I often see the police telling people of color to get up. Most of the cops are white.

    And I do not think that Wilson would have unloaded his gun into a person if they were white... my opinion..  

    Parent

    My take (5.00 / 2) (#107)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    The act of the cop telling the kid to gtf out if the street may very well nat have had nothing to do with race.
    IMO that's when the situation changes. As I said I don't believe for a second that any cop would have chased a kid firing into houses in an affluent white neighborhood.
    I also honestly doubt he would have laid in the street for hours.  

    That said, there is a lot of white poverty in STL and I have seen the cops roust white boys in south STL in ways the would never do in white STL county.

    Parent

    I have done a ride along with a cop (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:28:49 PM EST
    friend in St. Louis (long story) and they treat poor whites in St. Louis with suspicion.

    In fact they have a name or slur for them, the term is "Hoosiers" (a particular insult to me since my children and wife are born in Indiana) which is a term for white trash in the St. Louis area.   In general these are country or rural folk that come into the city etc.. etc..

    Again, to me the question is more about how our police deal with threats and use of authority and force then it is about race.

    Parent

    And Chicago has (none / 0) (#119)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:30:14 PM EST
    Hillbilly Heaven loaded with Hillbillies...

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#154)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:22:16 PM EST
    That is definitely not unknown in St. Louis.


    Parent
    I don't disagree with you.... (none / 0) (#99)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:42:54 PM EST
    but it may have been about 2 kids mouthing off at Wilson after he told them to not walk in the street. Would Wilson have done that if the kids were white?? I myself don't think so, but I will entertain that Wilson judged the disrespectful teens color-blindly.

    Parent
    If you had just "strongarmed" a (1.00 / 0) (#102)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:56:46 PM EST
    store clerk and "stolen" tobacco products, why would you be doing anything that would get the attention of law enforcement?  And why, in that same instance, would you just not have responded to the command with, "Oh, sorry" and hopped on over to the sidewalk?  Why would you have given the cop any excuse to stay on your ass any longer than necessary?

    I don't get it.


    Parent

    Well, I heard Wilson said.... (none / 0) (#105)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:05:36 PM EST
    "get the F on the sidewalk" as his greeting, so I can see the kids responding with disrespect, which, as we all know can be a capital offense in some jurisdictions.

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:49:46 PM EST
    But if as a rule you are harassed by the police for no reason other than the color of your skin on a regular basis, it becomes very hard to have any respect for the police. So mouthing off would be a part of a cycle which is perpetuated by racism.

    Parent
    Anne, Capt's comment was (1.00 / 1) (#111)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:28:23 PM EST
    It has become about race relations

    That's called context.

    Now, could he be a racist who is also a bully?

    Could he be a racist who is also a swell guy?

    Could he be a a racist who is also a mediocre cop who made wrong decisions??

    I suppose so but it is hard to conflate swell guy with a racist... maybe he's swell to his white buds??

    And opinions are like noses... most of us have one.

    Based on my experience and the known actions of Brown just minutes prior to the encounter I see a young man who had decided he could do what he wanted.

    You obviously disagree. So be it.

    And if you want to talk about the BIG picture I will be happy to.

    And that big picture has to include the baggage Jesse and Al bring to the picture and why no one is talking about the young black criminals killing other young black criminals and what needs to be done about that.

    And it's going to have to include an admission by you folks that judging a person by were he is from is bigotry. Otherwise the hypocrisy is just too deep.

    Parent

    Sweet mother of god (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:34:22 PM EST
    And if you want to talk about the BIG picture I will be happy to.

    Do we know this is true

    Parent

    Theyr'e just (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:54:49 PM EST
    trying to keep their neoconfederate base in line more than anything I would think. Look at as desperation as much desperation as their crackpot news about the black panthers.

    Parent
    You know (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:13:11 PM EST
    There was a time when Al Sharpton really bugged me but I am watching him give a barn burning (is that an appropriate metaphor?) eulogy at Michael Browns funeral and I find I don't disagree with a single word.

    No doubt the attacks are going to come hard and fast for the tone and content.  But when you hear all the outrages laid out like that it's powerful.

    It's not the eulogy I would have given but then I am realizing I don't have the experience or the right to criticize his.

    I haven't seen any coverage, but I'm (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:29:18 PM EST
    sure it will be unavoidable.

    As a mother, I can't even imagine what Michael Brown's family is going through - it's almost too painful to even try.  

    I hope the family gets a measure of peace today; they're going to need it in the days and weeks to come, for sure.  

    Whole thing just makes me want to cry.


    Parent

    I decided to just do it (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:15:42 PM EST
    Just cry.  I was on the elliptical watching the funeral, seeing his poor mother was awful.  But she looked better today than yesterday.  Unfortunately Donna Brazile came on talking about how others would be there for her, she indicated this was some kind of triumph.  I have my doubts about how complete that triumph will be.  Losing a child so young, seems like the future most likely holds lots of grief with brief moments of relief.

    Parent
    My aprehension about all this (3.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:48:35 PM EST
    is the deceased Brown child is being symbolized before we really know what happened.

    All these speeches assume a certain narrative that is not proven at this point and quite possibly might not be true.

    It could be that he was the victim of a terrible crime at the hands of a police officer (racist or non racist).

    It could be that he was somewhat responsible but it was still a gross misapplication of deadly force due to a cop overreacting or not being properly trained.

    It could be that he was equally responsible and a conflict between an armed police officer and an unarmed man resulted in a deadly tragedy.

    We all sitting here, if we're honest have no idea.  

    So in the absence of concrete evidence we've made a lot of assumptions, some pro cop, some pro victim.

    It is obvious that race is an issue because it's a white cop and a black victim.  But all this preaching about this being a symbol and a turning point to me is awful.

    I'm sure the parents would trade anything to have their boy back and I'm sorry all this attention and hoopla is not making this better for them.   To me it is making a symbol out of their son before we even know if it's deserved or not.   How are they to accept the awful truth now if it comes out that the officer and Brown did indeed fight?   To me the genie is out of the bottle and they will never accept the truth, if that is the case.   Again a big if.

    The words that elude to racism or some sort of crime by Sharpton and others are not for the victim but to further their own personal causes and this attention will not have some long lasting effect but will only serve to make sure the parents have a harder time dealing with a tragedy.

    The wheels of justice will not answer the what if for months or years and to me these speeches only inflame the bad feelings within that community and do not serve to help the family turn the page.

    Just the way I feel.  Has nothing to do with Sharptons past.   To me it is very presumptuous for all these speeches to be made about race, and tragedy before we even know what happened.

    Parent

    Sharptons eulogy was pretty sweeping (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:25:14 PM EST
    In scope.  He didn't just talk about Michael.  He talked about other similar incidents and a lot about the over reaction by law enforcement.  Which for many has become the issue.
    See the New Yorker cover.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#74)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:34:13 PM EST


    Parent
    I have no apprehension about this (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:33:23 PM EST
    Brown was bullet riddled.  He was unarmed. Five well known well educated black men will gather together on television and tell you they have experienced extreme fear and humiliation at the hands of law enforcement several times in their lives each.

    This country has a phucking problem.  A big one.  Let's not encourage denial about that okay.

    Then.....after grasping that, go ahead and graduate to my husband's shock and awe watching police officers, in his own country that claims to be a democracy, treat citizens worse that rioters in Iraq or Afghanistan ever dreamed of being treated.  Course these damned demonstrators were black, so that makes it different, the police officers were more afraid I guess because......black.....and that justifies what they did.

    Parent

    Me either... (5.00 / 5) (#93)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:22:11 PM EST
    even under the best case scenario for the cop, this killing can never be morally justified.  Legally it can be, but that's really no justification at all...the legal threshold is ridiculously low, and should be changed.  

    Never are gun shots an appropriate reaction to fisticuffs....never ever ever.  At least in my world.  If our police can't handle a punch from an unarmed teenager without going Dirty Harry on 'em, they can't be police.  End of discussion.  I wanna live in a society where police seek non-violent resolutions, and if non-violent isn't an option, than non-lethal. Lethal should only even be on the table with armed and dangerous suspects.

    Such as the other STL area killing of the guy with the knife...you'd hope police can defuse that situation too without a body bag, but ya can't hang 'em for shooting that guy.  But I can hang 'em for the killing of Michael Brown all day long and twice on Sunday, no way that kid had to die...no f*ckin' way.

    Shorter version...what Officer Wilson's fan club considers "justification" is the weakest of weak tea.  

    Parent

    I'm not willing to "hang" the guy (5.00 / 1) (#108)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:21:12 PM EST
    but the question of police force is a valid one.

    Your thought was one of my original ones.

    Even if Brown punched the cop why couldn't he wait for backup and why couldn't he subde him without using his weapon.

    One important question that can probably never be answered is did he warn Brown.

    "Stop! Or I'll shoot".   Was that said?   If not there is not very much sympathy for the officer in my book.   But as you say he might be legally set free.

    That is a question we should be asking ourselves.  What is the proper use of force, no matter the race.

    Parent

    You're not alone (none / 0) (#8)
    by NYShooter on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:22:07 PM EST
    that feeling has been expressed by quite a few, otherwise, died-in-the-wool Sharpton "detractors."

    Parent
    Sweet Jezus (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:30:13 PM EST
    I could hardly believe Faux Nooz would even have the unmitigated gall to come up with this

    How Al Sharpton is using Obama, Ferguson and MSNBC to boost his influence

    Al Sharpton is again working both sides of the street, and it's paying off for him.

    As he's inserted himself into the tense situation in Ferguson, he's had an assist from none other than the president of the United States.

    ADVERTISEMENT
    And he continues to bask in the spotlight at MSNBC, where he uses his nightly cable show to advance the causes he fights for as a civil rights activist.

    But these two roles are increasingly coming into conflict. It happened last year with the killing of Trayvon Martin, and it's happening again with the death of Michael Brown.

    Sharpton is scheduled to deliver the eulogy at Brown's funeral today. On Saturday, he led a rally on Staten Island to protest the death of a black man who police had placed in a chokehold. Tonight, on his show "Politics Nation," he'll undoubtedly be covering the very same events.

    This is wrong on so many levels, and most news organizations wouldn't allow it. MSNBC has defended this outrageous conflict of interest, saying people know who Sharpton is and where he stands.

    But you can't be a player and cover the game at the same time. That's especially true now that we know more about Sharpton's role as essentially an Obama operative.

    ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS?!?!
    You have a non stop play bill of right wing lunatics setting their hair on fire night after night and you criticize him for "being a player and covering the game"?  Really?
    It may be only noon but I need a vodka.

    Parent

    Have one for me; a slice of lime and (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:44:04 PM EST
    a little tonic would be great.

    Can't drink it straight - even the really, really good stuff is too much like drinking hairspray.

    Parent

    Done! (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:47:11 PM EST
    meanwhile in Texas

    Earlier this month, police in Foney, TX pulled over a car filled with a mother and her four children by "mistake" while searching for a group of four adult, male suspects waving a gun on the highway.

    Kametra Barbour was driving with her four children under the age of 10 home when she was suddenly stopped and surrounded by police. She was pulled over as the police held a gun at her. The car is not the same make, model or color as the suspects' car. But she did have a vehicle full of black people.

    It's pretty eerie to hear the officers actually ask each other, "Do they look young to you?" when Barbour's 6-year-old son, Ryan, inches his way out of the car when his hands up. It's increasingly flinch-worthy as the officer yells to his partner, "Gun down! Gun down!" and the terrified boy starts wailing.

    Police admit they made a mistake but are refusing to apologize.



    Parent
    They thought her red Nissan... (5.00 / 4) (#134)
    by desertswine on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:42:47 PM EST
    was a tan Toyota. A common enough error.

    Parent
    essentially an Obama operative (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:46:21 PM EST
    well he's black isn't he?

    Prince and Halle Berry are part-time Obama operatives.

    Parent

    Can you say (1.00 / 1) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:01:37 PM EST
    Tawana Brawley???

    Rev. Al Sharpton would not admit the Tawana Brawley rape case he drove to national prominence was a hoax on Morning Joe Tuesday, saying he had no regrets getting involved and would respond the same way if a woman today made sim
    ilar claims.

    Link

    But, as The Associated Press reminds readers, "a special state grand jury later determined that Brawley had fabricated her claims, perhaps to avoid punishment for staying out late."

    In 1998, Steven Pagones, who was the county prosecutor at the time, won a defamation suit against Sharpton, Brawley and Brawley's attorneys. They had accused Pagones of being among Brawley's attackers.

    "Sharpton has since paid off his [$65,000] debt with money raised by his supporters," the Village Voice says. Brawley was ordered to pay $190,000.

    It's been 15 years. With interest, the judgment against the now 40-year-old Brawley has grown to more than $430,000. Finally, the Poughkeepsie Journal reports, Pagones is receiving some of the money: $3,700, or about 1 percent of what he's now owed.

    NPR

    Ah yes, Good Ole Al has a great moral position.

    Parent

    yay... jimakappj is here...... (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:06:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Fair and Balanced (none / 0) (#47)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:25:07 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    Looks like he paid his part (5.00 / 3) (#139)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:53:28 PM EST
    ...of the debt.

    I was pretty contemptuous of Reverend Sharpton, but I will say that he "manned up" and admitted his mistake, paid the cash settlement and put it behind him.

    Since then I have seen him on the side of the Angels and a voice of reason.  

    Fifteen years ago I hired a couple of Black men right out of prison.  They had done far worse than anything Reverend Sharpton ever did, one describes his former career as "drug-dealing thug."  A couple of months ago I sold my business to what are now two solid, business-owning Black citizens.  

    I know that people can change.  How old will you be when you find that out?  How much more good would Rev. Sharpton have to do for you to forgive him for something he has already atoned for?

    Parent

    Thanks for taking one for the team (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:39:12 PM EST
    Can't abide their cr*p. Good to know they are reverting to form and I don't have to all of a sudden start respecting them.

    Parent
    Nothing about Holder bringing (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:14:15 PM EST
    his New Black Panther entourage with him?

    I mean after all, they and Soros and the Knights Templar helped swing the 2012 election..

    It was all over talk radio.

    ...not yet. (none / 0) (#6)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:17:32 PM EST
    That will be on Hannity tonight.

    Parent
    Sharpton stands on very powerful (5.00 / 2) (#10)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:28:24 PM EST
    ground the way King did when he makes it a moral issue effecting everyone and not just a one-dimensional, raw-emotion "black and white" issue.

    Parent
    That will NOT (5.00 / 2) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:31:45 PM EST
    Be on Hannity

    Parent
    I don't know.. (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:37:28 PM EST
    maybe quest commentators Joe the Plumber, Cliven Bundy, and Hank Williams Jr will touch on it in their wide-ranging discussion.

    Parent
    And a telephone interview (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:40:54 PM EST
    With Ted Nugent

    Parent
    Paging Sarah Palin... (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:45:28 PM EST
    sigh

    Parent
    Whatever happened to Ann Coulter? (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:53:47 PM EST
    did the Tourettes thing finally get the better of her?

    The last time I heard her speak for any length of time she sounded like she was on the verge of turning into one of the young girls in the Salem witch trials or the mayor's wife in the Witches of Eastwick.

    Parent

    Oh Ann is still around (1.00 / 2) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:08:36 PM EST
    And since you brought her up.

    It's important to remember that, in police shooting cases like the one in Ferguson, Missouri, the initial facts are often wrong. You don't want to end up looking like Rich Lowry, National Review editor, whose March 23, 2012, column on the Trayvon Martin shooting was titled, "Al Sharpton Is Right."

    Early accounts are especially unreliable when reporters think they have a white racism story. Stirring up racial hatred is how journalists make up for sending their own kids to lily-white private schools.

    As detailed in my book Mugged: Racial Demagoguery from the Seventies to Obama, the old media's standard for any police shooting of a black person is: "Racist until proved innocent." We got three-alarm racism stories for the shootings of Jose (Kiko) Garcia, Eleanor Bumpurs, Michael Stewart and Edmund Perry.

    Link

    Read the whole column. If you dare.

    Parent

    "As detailed in my book...." (none / 0) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:21:55 PM EST
    Pffft
    The vodka must be working cause that made me laugh.

    Parent
    Ann Coulter (none / 0) (#59)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:58:06 PM EST
    Ann Coulter lost her credibility even amongst conservatives quite a while ago --

    Parent
    Well then (1.00 / 1) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:23:08 PM EST
    I take it that her three examples are not true.

    Can you provide some proof of that???

    Parent

    She should know about (none / 0) (#83)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:52:31 PM EST
    lily-white private schools. The one's she went to were so lily-white, (caucasian) albinos got a tuition discount.

    It cracks me up when she plays that utterly bogus gal-of-the-people card.

    Parent

    The question remains (1.00 / 0) (#122)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:34:06 PM EST
    is her three examples correct??

    If so nothing else matters.

    Parent

    "Is her three examples correct"? (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:49:08 PM EST
    Fails the grammar test.

    Parent
    Given her track record (none / 0) (#158)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:39:49 PM EST
    The 8-ball says:  "Probably not."

    Parent
    A lot of transcribed excerpts and some video.... (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:04:33 PM EST
    of Sharpton's eulogy in this Kos diary.

    Parent
    Jeralyn returning to blogging tonight.... (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:47:01 PM EST
    Emmy's tonight.

    Coincidence?

    Best drama (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:51:33 PM EST
    A while back I picked True Detective for the best drama.  I don't know.  I have been watching the re-run of Breaking Bad.

    It really one of the best things ever on tv.

    Parent

    Plus (none / 0) (#26)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:54:03 PM EST
    TD has more coming seasons to win that one.  Matt will almost certainly win, although Brian Cranston......

    There is great affection for BB.  and it's not coming back.

    Parent

    Breaking Bad's last season.... (none / 0) (#29)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:59:15 PM EST
    is considered in this year's Emmy's even though the finale seemed like a lifetime ago. It should sweep. It was the best TV series ever. The 3rd to last episode was the best hour of the best TV series ever.

    Parent
    The finale (none / 0) (#39)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:15:23 PM EST
    Was probably the best series finale I have ever seen.

    Parent
    Agree.... (none / 0) (#43)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:21:32 PM EST
    I recently re-watched it, and the scene in Skyler's kitchen and in the Schwartz' living room were awesome. And the final scene with a song I had previously thought of as kinda brutal, but now love....

    But the Ozymandias episode was even better.  

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:23:16 PM EST
    The word masterful comes to mind.

    Parent
    I listened to Vince Gilligan's commentary (none / 0) (#197)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:29:05 PM EST
    on the disk and he talks about his choice of that final song 'Baby Blue'.  He said it was  a wonderful combination of sad and triumphant, appropriate for Walt who achieved going out on his own terms, as twisted as they were.

    It really was perfect. It has been in my head all day since I watched it again last night.

    Parent

    Fargo!!!!! (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:34:04 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes, very well deserved! (none / 0) (#199)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:35:40 PM EST


    Parent
    Update update!!! (none / 0) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:38:19 PM EST


    Parent
    I have been too (none / 0) (#186)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:42:26 PM EST
    A friend is watching BB for the first time, so I have been re watching to keep up with her. truly astonishingly good. I must have seen every episode at least 3 times now and I still have the same fresh reaction every time.

    Parent
    Aargh, Billy Bob was robbed! (none / 0) (#195)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:22:52 PM EST
    Know one loves Benedict Cumberbatch more than I....but  that's just wrong

    Parent
    Update me (none / 0) (#196)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:26:20 PM EST
    We just lost power and it just came back on.

    If the thread fills stick it at the end

    Woo hoop Jessica wins

    Parent

    Benedict Cumberbatch won best actor (none / 0) (#201)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:39:13 PM EST
    For Sherlock....instead of BB for Fargo.   In another twist, Martin Freeman beat all of the 'Normal Heart,' acting nominees in his category...for his role in Sherlock, not Fargo.  Probably the Normal Heart guys all split the vote,...not taking anything away from Freeman, who is great as Watson.

    Parent
    Alison Janney is my hero. Hope she gets her 2nd ! (none / 0) (#187)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:44:46 PM EST


    Parent
    He's trying really hard (5.00 / 4) (#75)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:40:40 PM EST
    But could we, just once, try not allowing him to hijack the thread?
    It's actually easy.  Ignore him.  No one needs to defend or justify anything.

    I was doing pretty well for a while, (5.00 / 3) (#85)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:56:15 PM EST
    but I got sucked in again.

    I realize that on some level, he's just entertaining himself, getting people stirred up - but there are enough others who seem to share his perspective that if we all just ignore them, pretty soon the only talking going on here isn't of the "Left" variety.

    Parent

    Happens to me too (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:57:40 PM EST
    Be strong
    ;)

    Parent
    I'm sure you've noticed recently (5.00 / 4) (#117)
    by NYShooter on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:29:55 PM EST
    that the open threads have been filling up very rapidly. And, if you look a little closer you'll notice that probably something like 20% of those threads are made up of interesting comments, and, the remaining 80% are comprised of idiotic, one line zingers and snarkballs.

    In just one thread, yesterday, or the day before, Jim made 25 comments. (Jim's just an example, it could've been anybody.) Well, I don't have to tell you that whatever he said, I've heard the exact same comment from him 500 times before. Unfortunately, some people here just can't resist returning his spitballs, so double that 25 to 50. And, more often than not, there's a third, and/or fourth genius that thinks he/she can outsnark everyone already in the mud pit, so make that 100-125 comments related to one poster. Most of the comments are one line, sometimes one word, and all of them, worthless.

    There are so many interesting things going on in the world, and, our country, and, we've got a web site visited by some really intelligent, interesting, informed, and fun-type people. WTF are we doing wasting valuable comment space with the adolescent, moronic stuff that's been passing as conversation around here lately? I know y'all know what I'm talking about.

    So, now, my rant is over.

    Back to you.

    p.s. I've got something to say about manners, and the lack thereof a lot of the time here, but that can wait for another time.

    So long, everyone.

    Parent

    Well, it is always nice to have a (1.00 / 2) (#180)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:26:23 PM EST
    self appointed Table Caption.

    Tell ya what.

    Get squeaky and jondee to stop and I will yield to your well thought out comments about Wilson, Brown, Starksy and Hutch and fences that are not there.

    Parent

    Since my last comment (none / 0) (#130)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:38:51 PM EST
    Was a one line response I both agree and grovel in mortification

    Parent
    Former Governor Bob McDonnell (5.00 / 2) (#98)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:40:50 PM EST
    corruption trial today produced sparks as the federal prosecutor cross-examined Mr. McDonnell  McDonnell, also a former Virginia Attorney General (graduae of Christian Broadcasting Network University law, now known as Regent U) argued that gifts "came out of the blue." Golf clubs to his sons, for example.  There was no relationship between gifts, loans, vacations and the governor's support of nostrums pedaled by his benefactor.  A stream of text messages between the governor and Williams (the maker of Anatabloc), seems to undercut the legal case that Williams entree to his office was purely through his wife.

     And, as for the estrangement with his wife, the prosecutors noted that the couple had taken 18 vacations/trips together over the last 22 months, suggesting the marital situation was a legal strategy. Photos were also shown of the couple during this year.

    (The governor is now living in the rectory of St. Patrick's, in Richmond, rooming with his friend Father Wayne Ball.
    Surprising in as much as the governor who has an anti-gay record finds temporal, if not spiritual comfort,  with Father Ball, who pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor offense-- arrested with an adult man in a park,  when assigned to Norfolk)

    Relating to charges of non-disclosure, a $23,000 vacation paid for by businessman Bill Goodwin, did not require disclosure because it was by a personal friend  but the prosecutor delved into that friendship finding that McDonnell did not socialize much with Goodwin, was not sure how many children he had, and did not know their names.  He did know Goodwin's wife's name, however.

    Hilarious (none / 0) (#148)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:11:11 PM EST
    Bob McDowell has come to religion through Father Ball...

    Dickens?

    Parent

    Unknown bombers outed... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by desertswine on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:36:48 PM EST
    The mysterious bombers of the Libyan Islamist militias turn out to be the Egyptians and the UAE.  Haha, I almost typed UAW. That would've been stupid. It must still be Monday.

    And now for something completely different (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:32:30 PM EST
    Stupid rabbits ate most of our lower-hanging tomatoes.
    Going to have to go out tomorrow and re-spray them with capsaicin.  We use Ghost Pepper hot sauce (and yes, this is really, really, really hot), diluted with water.  Rabbits, being mammals, have capsaicin receptors and don't like it one little bit.
    We haven't sprayed them since the last rain, because we have had out of town guests and have been busy.  (The rain washes it off.)
    Guests are now gone, and hot pepper warfare will resume.   ;-)

    Well (none / 0) (#166)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:43:06 PM EST
    If it makes you feel any better, I have been eating rabbit... and yes red hot pepper is a plus..

    Parent
    LOL! (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:47:39 PM EST
    Go for it!
    Rabbit is tasty.    ;-)
    We spray the apple trees with hot pepper sauce, too, to keep the deer off.

    Parent
    Zorba's tips re organic pest control! (none / 0) (#173)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:08:58 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, it works against (none / 0) (#174)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:13:48 PM EST
    mammals.  And nothing obnoxious on our plants.  It doesn't soak into the fruit or vegetables because it washes off.
    Very effective, but you have to keep applying it after every rain.
    And again, only works against mammalian pests.  Birds and insects don't have capsaicin receptors.

    Parent
    Keeps away certain insects also (none / 0) (#179)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:22:37 PM EST
    I've sprayed hot pepper, garlic, oil, soap mixtures, among other things :) Boiling water, vinegar and salt for weeds that grow in between bricks, stones and cracks in cement walkways. Really no need to use toxic chemicals around the garden/yard/home.

    Parent
    Salt for (none / 0) (#182)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:35:47 PM EST
    slugs and snails also works well.
    We don't have weeds between bricks and stones on walkways.  What walkways?   ;-)

    Parent
    PS (none / 0) (#184)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:37:04 PM EST
    Lady bugs are also great for certain insect pests.

    Parent
    I use salt around the outside (none / 0) (#188)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:48:59 PM EST
    of my veggie beds and coffee grounds/crushed eggshell in them for my huge slug/snail population.

    I do have a lot of ladybugs (and bees/wasps) but I was told not to bother bringing in more because the would all just migrate a couple blocks down to the water . . .

    Parent

    We don't bring in (none / 0) (#192)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:16:10 PM EST
    any ladybugs.  We have plenty of our own population.  Lots of water around here.  Streams, ponds.
    And another reason why we don't use insecticides.  They don't discriminate, and kill the ladybugs, too.  Not to mention the bees.  They are great pollinators, and we have neighbors who maintain beehives and give us honey.  Yum!
    Bees won't bother you if you don't bother them.
    We don't have very many slugs, but the few we have, a little salt takes care of them.


    Parent
    Wow. Much more effective than (none / 0) (#167)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:47:20 PM EST
    spray. Shades of "Watership Down" and Beatrix Potter!

    Parent
    This is what a conservative had to say (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 07:54:50 AM EST
    about the New Black Panthers and Eric Holder:

    A scholar whom President George W. Bush appointed as vice chairwoman of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Abigail Thernstrom has a reputation as a tough conservative critic of affirmative action and politically correct positions on race.

    But when it comes to the investigation that the Republican-dominated commission is now conducting into the Justice Department's handling of an alleged incident of voter intimidation involving the New Black Panther Party -- a controversy that has consumed conservative media in recent months -- Thernstrom has made a dramatic break from her usual allies.

    "This doesn't have to do with the Black Panthers; this has to do with their fantasies about how they could use this issue to topple the [Obama] administration," said Thernstrom, who said members of the commission voiced their political aims "in the initial discussions" of the Panther case last year.

    "My fellow conservatives on the commission had this wild notion they could bring Eric Holder down and really damage the president,"     Thernstrom said in an interview with POLITICO.

    As you like to say, James,

    heh.

    Nystray wrote (1.00 / 3) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:53:35 PM EST
    [new] How do they prove he was running at him? (none / 0) (#197)
    by nycstray on Sun Aug 24, 2014 at 09:10:14 PM CST
    He could have been turning or other movement aside from running at the cop.
    Would you run at a cop that had a  gun aimed at your chest?

    All I know is what the renowned Medical Examiner said.. And he said all shots hit Brown in the front.

    Others have said he was running.

    You never finished telling (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:57:55 PM EST
    me the other day what they call someone who "makes things up", Jim.

    I thought we were on the verge of one of those the facts of life moments. You really left me hanging there.

    Parent

    Glad you brought that up (none / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:18:13 PM EST
    The thread ended before I could reply..

    One of the links went to a discussion of private guards in NO during Katrina...

    One of the links went to me explaining to a gaggle of Lefties that the NG is under the control of the state's governor and the Prez can't just take'em over.

    And one went to a real goofy comment by someone named Jondee:

    "The Pope of Secularism" lol (none / 0) (#158)
    by jondee on Tue May 18, 2010 at 01:06:36 PM CST
    your social liberalism is slipping again.
    But dont forget those secret plans your Posse Comitatus group stumbled across - that Obama      never told us about - to use U.N Security Forces to herd us all into collective farms guarded by The Nation Of Islam for the purposes of indoctrinating everyone with a hybrid of Sharia Law, Marxist-Leninism and Deep Ecology..

    Which means your examples are silly.

    Parent

    You said I "made up" (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    the fact that you tried to smear Eric Holder by connecting him to the Black Panthers. Then you were definitively proven to have lied about what you had done. As you're quite well aware.

    Don't you remember when we talked about fibbing before? About how it's bad, and how honesty is the best policy? About the boy who cried wolf and how people won't believe ANYTHING you say if you lie?

    Parent

    I didn't try to smear (1.00 / 0) (#133)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:42:16 PM EST
    I told the truth on him.

    I guess facts hurt you.

    Parent

    Slado at least brings it.... (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:27:39 PM EST
    you're just a troll.

    Parent
    and neither proves he was running at Wilson. (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:19:54 PM EST
     

    Parent
    All I know -- (none / 0) (#51)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:31:29 PM EST
    All I know is what the renowned Medical Examiner said. And he said all shots hit Brown in the front.

    He was referring to the front as the diagram stands not as a normal person stands and he said upfront that no one actually stands like that.

    When a normal person stands the "front" of their hands and forearms face backwards not forwards.

    However if he he puts his hands up in the air the front of his hands and forearms do face forward.  

     So that diagram shows that he could have been shot from behind or with his hands up -- unless someone wants to argue that he was delivering a bouquet of roses to the officer.

    So which was it???



    Parent

    The picture does (none / 0) (#135)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:44:07 PM EST
    represent anything but a body not the position of Brown.

    The ME said what he said.

    Go argue with him.

    Parent

    Previously TV says goodbye to True Blood (none / 0) (#15)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 12:36:38 PM EST
    (I have to think about something else for a bit.  It's a blood pressure thing)

    R.I.P. True Blood

    True Blood, you were crazy, you were sometimes dull, but I always looked forward to you and I was always sorry when you were done for the season. You had something a lot of shows don't have, which is a distinct voice. That voice was cuckoo, erratic, maddening, and almost never made narrative sense, but it was definitely yours, and I like how you stuck to it. So long, TB. (And here some member of the Bon Temps community gets up and sings a Broadway-caliber version of "Amazing Grace.")
    Final episode was terrible (none / 0) (#33)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:06:35 PM EST
    In fact this whole season was terrible.

    I stuck through it just to finish off what was an otherwise great show but there simply wasn't enough happening to make this season any good and what was somewhat enjoyable ended the second on the infected vampires were killed off.

    I'm glad it's over because for me it's been over for a while.

    On to "The Strain"!

    Parent

    Another blog I comment on .... (none / 0) (#36)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:09:12 PM EST
    said the finale gave Dexter a run for "worst finale ever!"

    Parent
    IMO (none / 0) (#38)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:13:08 PM EST
    Not great but not in the same league of bad as Dexter.

    Parent
    I understand that reaction. (none / 0) (#37)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:11:43 PM EST
    I really do.  But you know, I really liked it.  Don't know if you do previously tv but you should check out their take.  Not far from yours

    Kill Bill

    The Strain.   Oooooo baby.  It gets better and better.  But it must also be getting close to a season finale.

    Very excited to see the teaser for American Horror Story-Freak Show last night

    Parent

    P-TV (none / 0) (#49)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:30:44 PM EST
    also has a great piece on The Strain

    Which I was glad to see.  As much as I enjoy Fart Faces of the Strain it was time for a more serious take.

    Parent

    So engrosed have I become in (none / 0) (#65)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:07:24 PM EST
    this show that I've already read the first two books..."The Strain, The Night Eternal" and am half way through "The Fall".

    Let me just say, awesome.

    Like GoT I just couldn't wait for weekly installments.   So now I know what's going to happen but I'm pleasantly surprised how there are certain differences in plot and character development.

    Anyway if the show keeps it up there is great material ahead and we're you're in for a great ride.

    I love all things vampire since the time I read my first Anne Rice novel and this is a fabulous take.  

    Enjoyed last nights episode as well.   It was great to meet "Quinlan" the vampire killing vampire.   A great plot change that introduced a fabulous character much earlier then the books.

    I won't spoil it for you but you're going to learn to love him.

    It will be a great ride.

    Parent

    I love him already (none / 0) (#68)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:17:08 PM EST
    That was a fabulous and jarring debut.  And as with GoT I am avoiding the books because I am enjoying the series so much.  Supposedly the numbers were not great for the show but I cant believe it won't be back (I have seen alarmist hand wringing about that) IMO ever episode has gotten better so I hope the numbers are getting better too.

    Parent
    I'm goign to ignore this comment (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:37:54 PM EST
    I'd be very distressed if they cut this short.

    Parent
    Wikipedia (none / 0) (#31)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:03:37 PM EST
    Michael Brown shooting per Wikipedia

    There are atleast 5 named witnesses corroborating the same basic facts including now this guy:

    James McKnight said he witnessed the shooting and that Brown held his hands in the air just after he turned to face Wilson. "I saw him stumble toward the officer, but not rush at him. The officer was about six or seven feet away from him," McKnight said.[5]

    There are no witnesses for the policeman's myth of a struggle for the gun and a bumrush but the search in Never Never Land continues.

    Well, it is only (5.00 / 2) (#52)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:34:46 PM EST
    fair to compare these eye witness accounts to the eye witnessing of events as provided in the statement or the official incident report given by Officer Wilson.  And, it is only logical to reconcile  the "sharp differences" alleged, if any,  among and between eye witnesses by comparing eye witness accounts with those provided directly by Wilson.  

    Oh wait, what are you saying about those accounts by Wilson?  Never-mind. But still,  it would be irresponsible not to speculate.  At least there is no question about who done it, and it was not the butler.  If only the killer would speak up as forcefully as he polices.

    Parent

    Starting countdown (none / 0) (#34)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:07:42 PM EST
    Till someone criticizes wiki as a source.  
    (A source they would of course cite if it supported their assertions)

    Parent
    I like it.... (none / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:22:44 PM EST
    Witness reports greatly differ as to whether Brown was standing with his hands up or moving towards Wilson when Wilson shot him multiple times.

    Brown had no criminal record.[6] Wilson had served four years with the Ferguson Police Department after two years with another local police department.[7] He has no disciplinary history.[8]



    Parent
    Witness reports greatly differ (none / 0) (#54)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:39:50 PM EST
    That statement is referring to the differences between the 5 named witnesses who witnessed the event and who have given statements to LE versus the unnamed nobodies getting their accounts from  Facebook.

    As they say in LE, I would rather believe the witnesses I have than the witnesses you don't have.

    Parent

    Oh really?? (1.00 / 1) (#137)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:46:17 PM EST
    Everyone is lying except your side??

    Now let me see..... There was this guy who said there was a fence....

    lol

    Parent

    Unfortunately (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:21:33 PM EST
    There is only one side here.  Wilson apparelty forgot to fill out required paperwork for a shooting.  The police department has released a lot of rumors and a tape of an incident in a convenience store that THE FERGUSON POLICE CHIEF  says had nothing to do with the shooting.

    So why did they release it?  Apparently just to slander the victim.

    Why hasn't the clerk who was allegedly robbed appeared as a witness or made a statement?

    So we have some people with names and written statements saying he was trying to surrender, and then we have a bunch of rumors from unnamed sources, or sources that have been exposed as lies (eye-socket fracture) saying he was "charging the officer."

    Considering that virtually all the lies that have been exposed AS LIES are from the defenders of the police officer, what are we to conclude?  Why do "innocent" people find it necessary to lie over and over?  

    Where is the officer's account?  If he refused to fill one out on Fifth Amendment grounds, then he has to make a statement to that effect.  That is not admission of guilt, but it IS insubordination and should result in an immediate firing.

    What's your BEST GUESS why no report was filled out?

    Parent

    What authority required Officer Wilson (none / 0) (#161)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:07:15 PM EST
    to "fill out paperwork" in this officer-involved shooting"

    Parent
    What "authority?" (none / 0) (#170)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:01:47 PM EST
    Presumably the Chief of Police, and of course state law which says that "incident reports" are public records available to anyone.  How do you think the ACLU obtained the bogus IR that has no information whatever beyond the identity of the victim?  I'm pretty sure we all knew that.

    Are you seriously suggesting that when a police officer kills a citizen that he should not be required to state why he did it?

    You seem to be suggesting that the only officer at the scene had no responsibility in describing the incident, even though a man died.

    If that is really your argument, there is no reason to take it seriously.  Or you.

    Parent

    See peter g's previous comments regarding the offi (none / 0) (#171)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:05:58 PM EST
    Fifth Amendment rights. Also, as I am sure you are aware, the Ferguson P. D. is not the investigating agency.

    Parent
    Police officers (none / 0) (#176)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:19:39 PM EST
    in most jurisdictions are required to fill out reports for car accidents unless it's on private property. I can't imagine that they wouldn't be required to fill out an incident report in this case.

    Parent
    Constitutional Protection (none / 0) (#181)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:32:25 PM EST
    Not to incriminate oneself..  5th amendment

    Most police voluntarily fill out a report, but they are not required to.

    Parent

    Yes. But may be required to as condition of (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:11:56 PM EST
    continued employment. Catch 22.

    Parent
    I guess (none / 0) (#189)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:57:16 PM EST
    in this particular case it would have to be because he killed someone. I really can't imagine the 5th coming into play with filing a report on a house burglary or most other things for that matter.

    Parent
    Could Apply (none / 0) (#190)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:00:47 PM EST
    If there were some evidence linking the PO to the crime, the PO could plead the 5th.

    Parent
    Officer Involved Shooting Protocol (none / 0) (#183)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:36:07 PM EST
    Here is one for Denver, Co. (PDF)

    The involved officer(s), like any citizen, have a Constitutional Fifth Amendment right not to make a statement. In spite of this fact, Denver officers have given voluntary sworn statements in every case, without exception, since 1979. Since November of 1983, when the videotape- interview room was first used, each of these statements has been recorded on videotape. No other major city police department in the nation can make this statement.


    Parent
    Well, eye-witness Michael Brady (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:26:15 PM EST
    missed a crucial part of the incident when he left his window and went outside. He said that when he got outside Brown was doubled over cradling his arm stumbling forward, which would not be an unusual thing to do if your arm/hand/shoulder had been shot 4x.

    However he, and others, describe a "tussle" in the window of the SUV, which jibes with "a struggle for the gun." Of course it also jibes with "Wilson grabbed Brown by the neck and tried to pull to the SUV window" and multiple other scenarios.

    I'm not sure any witness was close enough to the SUV to see in a window and down to Wilson's gun holster area. Even Dorian, iirc, said he heard a shot, but did not say he saw a gun.

    I must admit that after a weekend of not being involved in dissecting this, I've forgotten who claimed there was a struggle for the gun. afaik we don't have any statement from Wilson, was it from the FPD?

    Parent

    Didn't Brady also say that it was as (5.00 / 4) (#62)
    by Anne on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:01:09 PM EST
    Brown was going down that Wilson fired more shots?

    Which would be consistent with the finding that the bullet that killed him was fired on a downward trajectory.

    If someone whom I knew had a gun were to pull my head in through the window opening, I'm pretty sure I'd be trying to get away.  And I'd be worried about where that gun was, especially if just prior to that happening, the cop pulled a NASCAR move with his SUV and darn near ran into me.

    I think the cop was embarrassed that all his macho moves had failed, and was humiliated by the door he threw open bouncing off Brown and back into him, putting him back on his ass in the vehicle.

    At each point in the evolution of the incident, when Darren Wilson had the choice to act toward a goal of resolution, he chose instead escalation.  

    Parent

    Yup to this: (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:27:32 PM EST
    Brown was going down that Wilson fired more shots?

    Which would be consistent with the finding that the bullet that killed him was fired on a downward trajectory



    Parent
    that's Johnson version. (5.00 / 0) (#103)
    by CityLife on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:58:31 PM EST
    You wrote, "I think the cop was embarrassed that all his macho moves had failed, and was humiliated by the door he threw open bouncing off Brown and back into him, putting him back on his ass in the vehicle."

     Well that's Johnson version. Did you consider that what Johnson innocently described as the cop's door bumping off of Brown was really Brown aggressively slamming the door on the cop to prevent the cop from exiting his truck and that is the initial aggression the cop was reacting to?

    It isn't far fetched to think that if he pulled the same kind of aggressive behavior with the cop that HE HAD JUST DONE with the store clerk 15 mins earlier, that it could result in the officer feeling threatened.  I suggest you rewatch the video of Brown at the store. The actions mirror what I am saying is possible. The shoving the store clear (shoving the door back on the cop) The grabbing the store clerk (the "tussle with the cop") and finally the part where Brown is about to leave the store yet turns around and the comes aggressively towards the store clerk. If Brown did those very same actions that we can see he did just 15 minutes before then it isn't hard to understand why the cop could feel threatened and felt he needed to shoot urgently before Brown got a hold of him or his gun.  

    I wouldn't be so quick to swallow Johnson's claim that the truck door "bounced off of Brown."  Remember that after telling everyone about Browns hands held up high (and thousands of people imitating that in protests now Johnson is saying that Browns hands were not that high and one was lower than the other: "The F.B.I., Mr. Bosley said, pressed Mr. Johnson to say how high Mr. Brown's hands were. Mr. Johnson said that his hands were not that high, and that one was lower than the other, because he appeared to be "favoring it," the lawyer said."

    You should at least consider that what the cop is saying is possible: "According to his account to the Ferguson police, Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said. Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force. Some witnesses have backed up that account."
     

    Parent

    Where is this "account" (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:29:54 PM EST
    You should at least consider that what the cop is saying is possible: "According to his account to the Ferguson police, Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said. Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force. Some witnesses have backed up that account."

    If officer Wilson did not write it and sign it, there is no "account."  No one else from the FPD was present.

    As you must know by now, there was no incident report filed, even though it is required.  When people hide stuff, it's because they have something to hide.

    As it stands now, there are people who say Brown was trying to surrender, and there is no named or official source for any other "account."  Why should we believe the police?

    Parent

    Really?? (none / 0) (#178)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:21:19 PM EST
    As you must know by now, there was no incident report filed, even though it is required.  When people hide stuff, it's because they have something to hide.

    You mean there is not one you have seen.

    Parent

    to City Life (none / 0) (#114)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:29:35 PM EST
    You should at least consider that what the cop is saying is possible:

    And just where is his account of what happened -- in the Incident Report where it should have been 2 weeks ago and still isn't today or somewhere in the mouth of anonymous Josie???


     "According to his account to the Ferguson police

    Excuse me but where do you find this account since he has committed nothing to writing and neither has the Ferguson PD.

    Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said.

    And by lowering his arms you are implying that he had them raised, right??? He had them up. Thank you for verifying the now 5 witnesses of the shooting.

    Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force.

    Deadly force, eh -- and just what do you call the bullets that you had already pumped into him -- love taps???

    Some witnesses have backed up that account."

    Now that's a bold-faced lie because none of the witnesses back up the police myth.

    Parent

    I'm quoting the NYT (5.00 / 0) (#125)
    by CityLife on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:35:46 PM EST
    "According to his account to the Ferguson police, Officer Wilson said that Mr. Brown had lowered his arms and moved toward him, law enforcement officials said. Fearing that the teenager was going to attack him, the officer decided to use deadly force. Some witnesses have backed up that account." - Shooting Accounts Differ as Holder Schedules Visit to Ferguson
    By FRANCES ROBLES and MICHAEL S. SCHMIDTAUG. 19, 2014
    So if that is a lie, take it up with the writers a the NYT. I don't see you think you know it is a lie since we can hear a witness saying Brown kept coming towards the police.

    Parent
    To City Life (none / 0) (#140)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:54:55 PM EST
    So if that is a lie, take it up with the writers a the NYT.

    If you are not willing to defend it then don't post it as if it were true.

    since we can hear a witness saying Brown kept coming towards the police.

    Does that voice have a name??? Does that voice say he saw the event???

    Or is that voice reporting what he speculates must have happened because surely police don's do what this officer did in this day and age in the middle of the day in a residential neighborhood with everyone watching???

    Is there some reason that you are failing to hear all the witnesses on that video saying that he had his hands up and he shot him on the ground???

    An ear check may be in order --

    Parent

    I can hear the guy (5.00 / 0) (#150)
    by CityLife on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:12:46 PM EST
    "the next thing I knew ..." that sounds like an eyewitness to me. And he talks about how Brown "kept coming towards the police"
    I heard another guy saying "they say .." that's called hearsay. At what point do you hear "all these other witnesses"? And it is possible that he had his hands up a bit (Johnson says not that high now, with one lower than the other) and it is possible he dropped them and stumbled towards the cop or charged at the cop, it is possible. If you watched the video of Brown at the store, you can see he was going to leave yet turns around and comes at the clerk in a threatening manner. IF he did the same thing with the cop then it is not hard to see how he could end up getting shot.

    Doesn't Jeralyn have rules that people aren't supposed to be rude? Why are you being rude?

    Parent

    Does that voice say he saw the event??? (none / 0) (#143)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:03:56 PM EST
    Seriously? The guy related what he saw happen.

    Parent
    and you know that how???? (none / 0) (#144)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:06:17 PM EST


    Parent
    'cuz he was describing what he saw happen. (none / 0) (#147)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:10:24 PM EST
    You might want to stop going about this particular point, as you are coming across as a little unhinged. Know what I mean????!!!!####@@@@

    Parent
    It appears to me that (none / 0) (#151)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:12:57 PM EST
    You are the one coming unhinged.

    Parent
    The Video (none / 0) (#159)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:53:30 PM EST
    The Video

    The officer encountered the two kids at ~12:01 and the shooting ended at ~12:03.

    The video appears to start at ~12:06 and notice all the yellow tape is up and a whole lot of blue shirted Ferguson police, and Wilson has already moved his vehicle which is now parked at the curb to the left. Is that 35 feet from the dead Brown???

    At ~12:10 EMT arrives and checks the body but does not check on any injuries to Wilson.

    At ~12:15 the County Police arrive [the beige shirts] but they are not there for investigation but just crowd control.

    At ~12:16 an officer covers Brown up with a white sheet and that officer appears to be Wilson and he doesn't look to be hurting.

    It isn't until 12:43 that Wilson calls the County Police to notify them of an officer involved shooting so that the County Police can send a forensic team and begin an official investigation.

    Parent

    Why would Wilson call the County? (none / 0) (#165)
    by EL seattle on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 06:39:53 PM EST
    I'd sort of expect that people at Police Headquarters would handle that sort of thing. Like maybe a Captain or a Sergeant or a Head Honcho or something. I wouldn't expect that an "officer on the scene" to be responsible for notifying everyone who was be going to be involved in the process.

    Parent
    Maybe the county has EMS?? (none / 0) (#177)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:19:53 PM EST
    I know that is the case where I live. The towns all use the county for emergency service.

    Parent
    Notification (none / 0) (#193)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:18:23 PM EST
    I wouldn't expect that an "officer on the scene" to be responsible for notifying everyone who was be going to be involved in the process.

    I would expect the same thing but that's not how it works apparently.

    The officer who does the shooting by law is required to call it in and and in this case it took him 40 minutes.

    One other thing -- it was the County Police dispatch that heard about the shooting on the news -- not from the Ferguson Police.

    The County Police tried to reach Ferguson PD to inquire about the shooting but was unable to reach them.

     So then on their own at 12:07 County Police sent their own officers to the scene there in Ferguson.

    I'm sure one of the County officers had to remind Wilson about protocol after he finally got aroound to covering the body.

    Parent

    While we're at it (none / 0) (#175)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 07:17:18 PM EST
    If you are not willing to defend it then don't post it as if it were true.

    Let us known when a post from the New York Times needs to be defended.

    Parent

    Consider yourself notified- (5.00 / 0) (#194)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:22:10 PM EST


    Parent
    City Life = Josie (none / 0) (#126)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:36:15 PM EST


    Parent
    I'm hoping some witness... (none / 0) (#50)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:31:25 PM EST
    and his/her attorney have a cell phone video waiting of the shooting itself for when the "official" version of events comes out.

    Parent
    Yes, that would be most helpful. (none / 0) (#53)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:36:28 PM EST


    Parent
    Washington Post (none / 0) (#67)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:16:33 PM EST
    Reports Officer struck by Brown

    If you want to take a side, as you appear to do, there are plenty of links to support an argument either way.

    Nobody except the officer knows what really happened.

    We have TAPE RECORDINGS of someone countering your narrative.

    Who do we believe?   Let's wait for the police to report all their findings (release of the video was dumb and someone should be fired for it) and then we can all call each other names with a little more information.

    Your theory is exactly that, a theory.   Based on evidence that is directly refuted by other evidence.

    Parent

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:03:59 PM EST
    that's just sad. Some blogger is saying that something was said. And the tape was taken after the  shooting.

    Parent
    every witness statement is AFTER the shooting (5.00 / 0) (#110)
    by CityLife on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:24:47 PM EST
    I don't understand your point, all the witness statements are "taken after the shooting." I think people really need to at least consider that what this witness said might be true. One logical reason to think it is possible is because we saw Brown doing basically the same thing on video just 15 minutes before he encountered the cop. Didn't people see that after he grabbed and then shoved the store clear and started for the door to leave that he turned around and then moved in an aggressive manner towards the store clerk? Am I the only one that sees that happening in the video?

    Parent
    This isn't (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Ga6thDem on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:41:58 PM EST
    even a tape you can watch from the story. It's some tape where you can't hear it but it's been transcribed by a blogger.

    And where are all those people who were whining about Cliven Bundy a proven criminal having the SWAT force show up and yet seem to be cheering on this shooting? I guess Mr. Brown was not worthy of having a court hearing?

    Parent

    Yeah, you're wrong... (none / 0) (#118)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:30:13 PM EST
    Numerous witnesses talked about what was going on before, during and immediately after the shooting

    Parent
    Who's wrong? You? (none / 0) (#131)
    by Slado on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:41:06 PM EST
    You have no idea what you're talking about.   The only one who does at this point is the officer.   The other party that knows what happened is dead.

    The friend knows what happened but he could be lying.

    You've made a decision and you won't hear otherwise.

    You could be right and you could be wrong.

    But you've made up your mind so facts are irrelevant at this point.

    Parent

    Yeah, so because he's dead he's wrong... (none / 0) (#146)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:10:07 PM EST
    because he can't speak out for himself. Like one of Wilson's public supporters says "it was a good kill".

    Parent
    STATEMENTS "taken after the shooting" (none / 0) (#136)
    by CityLife on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:45:56 PM EST
    that is what I was responding to, what was being complained about "And the tape was taken after the  shooting. "
    the tape in fact has the witness talking about events before, during and immediately after the shooting the shooting. The thing that was being complained about was that "the tape was taken after the shooting" and not that it described events after the shooting.

    Parent
    Why would anyone speak about the shooting... (none / 0) (#149)
    by magster on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 05:11:25 PM EST
    before the shooting took place?  All the witnesses are unbelievable because they aren't clairvoyant??

    Parent
    Capt.Howdy- about kimchee. (none / 0) (#55)
    by caseyOR on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:46:04 PM EST
    I saw your comment on the previous open thread about kimchee. You can make your own kimchee, the internet abounds with recipes, for cabbage or cucumber or just about any vegetable.

    If that is too bothersome, and it is for me, buying is the way to go. I do not remember how far from Little Rock you are, but here is a link to a Korean grocery in Little Rock that sells kimchee.

    If you are closer to a different city there is quite possibly a Korean or general Asian grocery store and/or restaurant in that city where you could buy kimchee.

    In Portland I can buy kimchee, made by a family in the metro area, at the farmers' market. Not so where I am right now in central Illinois.

    Thanks! (none / 0) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:49:17 PM EST
    Actually making it sounds like fun.  But I am going to LRock next week to visit friends.

    Parent
    AND (none / 0) (#58)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 01:52:29 PM EST
    That store is practically on the way.  You go to the end of 630 and out Chenal Parkway out into the woodsy burbs to get to my friends house.

    Thanks so much for pointing that out.

    Parent

    Please let me know (none / 0) (#61)
    by caseyOR on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:00:59 PM EST
    how it works out.

    Parent
    Looking at recipes (none / 0) (#64)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:05:29 PM EST
    I will need to buy ingredient there as well as take home.  So I will probably do a "batch"

    Parent
    I really want to know how making (none / 0) (#79)
    by caseyOR on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:46:00 PM EST
    kimchee goes. Perhaps you will inspire me to make some. :-)

    Parent
    After all, winter is coming. (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by caseyOR on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:47:58 PM EST
    Predictions are for a more severe winter than last year's :-(. Learning to make kimchee might be just the thing I need to preserve some sanity.

    Parent
    It doesn't really sound hard (none / 0) (#88)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 02:58:40 PM EST


    Parent
    Syria welcomes airstrikes against ISIS (none / 0) (#100)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 03:45:39 PM EST
    Syria welcomes U.S. strikes against ISIS there, with conditions

    Note to Syria (none / 0) (#116)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:29:54 PM EST
    Be careful what you wish for

    Parent
    Religion not the Problem but the Excuse (none / 0) (#113)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:28:52 PM EST
    from Digby
    Can you guess which books the wannabe jihadists Yusuf Sarwar and Mohammed Ahmed ordered online from Amazon before they set out from Birmingham to fight in Syria last May?....

    Sarwar and Ahmed, both of whom pleaded guilty to terrorism offences last month, purchased Islam for Dummies and The Koran for Dummies. You could not ask for better evidence to bolster the argument that the 1,400-year-old Islamic faith has little to do with the modern jihadist movement. The swivel-eyed young men who take sadistic pleasure in bombings and beheadings may try to justify their violence with recourse to religious rhetoric....but religious fervour isn't what motivates most of them.

    In 2008, a classified briefing note on radicalisation, prepared by MI5's behavioural science unit, was leaked to the Guardian. It revealed that, "far from being religious zealots, a large number of those involved in terrorism do not practise their faith regularly. Many lack religious literacy and could ... be regarded as religious novices." The analysts concluded that "a well-established religious identity actually protects against violent radicalisation," the newspaper said....

    If we want to tackle jihadism, we need to stop exaggerating the threat these young men pose and giving them the oxygen of publicity they crave ...

    Well that is interesting...  

    Link (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:30:32 PM EST
    link via Digby

    Parent
    It made me laugh (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 04:31:42 PM EST
    To read that some if them are so stupid they tell immigration why they are going there.

    Parent
    Thank you dear (none / 0) (#202)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:41:53 PM EST
    Searching for a win list no find

    The Normal Heart who for best movie (none / 0) (#203)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:43:48 PM EST
    Was  a little afraid Sherlock was going to beat it.

    Yeah I am watching since (none / 0) (#204)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:46:39 PM EST
    Jessica won

    Posting this again from nominations day ---

    My picks (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 10, 2014 at 05:42:04 PM EST
    Drama
    "True Detective" (HBO)
    Comedy series
    "Louie" (FX)

    Miniseries
    "Fargo" (FX)

    TV Movie
    "The Normal Heart" (HBO)

    Actor in a drama
    Matthew McConaughey ("True Detective")

    Actress in a drama
    Lizzy Caplan ("Masters of Sex")

    Actor in a comedy
    William H. Macy ("Shameless")

    Actress in a comedy
    Amy Poehler ("Parks and Recreation")

    Actor in a miniseries or a movie
    Billy Bob Thornton ("Fargo)")

    Actress in a miniseries or a movie
    Jessica Lange ("American Horror Story: Coven")

    Parent | Reply to This
    So glad Kathy Bates won (none / 0) (#205)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:49:33 PM EST


    Howdy, did you see Julia Loius Dreyfus won (none / 0) (#206)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:49:34 PM EST
    not Amy P.

    I think that is the only one on your list you might not know about. The others are either to come, or we have talked about,

    I agree with Ricky Gervais (none / 0) (#207)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:51:19 PM EST
    Not that he should have won, but no one should win 4 yrs in a row.

    Yep and male comedy lead (none / 0) (#208)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:54:34 PM EST
    Meh
    I don't watch them
    Louis C K won for writing at least.  I love him.
    (Finally found a list)

    Colbert Report! Yay! (none / 0) (#209)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 08:57:20 PM EST


    You are correct (none / 0) (#210)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:00:53 PM EST
    Billy Bob was robbed

    I'm sorry, Jimmy Fallon's charms are lost on me (none / 0) (#211)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:04:52 PM EST
    I really hope Stephen's new show trounces his . Probably won't happen, the lowest common denominator being what it is, but I can hope.

    Good for Aaron Paul (none / 0) (#212)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:09:59 PM EST
    Though I really sort of hoped it would be Jon Voight.
    He has been amazing in Ray

    It had to be Aaron. (none / 0) (#213)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:22:16 PM EST
    If for no other reason than I am afraid he will never get a part that good again....maybe when he is Jon Voight's age,

    Well...Vince Gilligan was robbed too (none / 0) (#214)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 09:26:31 PM EST
    But at least the director of my least favorite episode of GoT didn't get it.

    CNN is playing what is claimed (none / 0) (#215)
    by desertswine on Mon Aug 25, 2014 at 10:08:51 PM EST
    to be an audio recording of the Brown killing. It sounds like about a dozen shots, with a break between the first six, and the last five or six.

    Reply to #215 (none / 0) (#216)
    by magster on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 12:07:09 AM EST
    Link to audio via DKos.

    SITE VIOLATOR. (none / 0) (#219)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 01:56:44 PM EST
    #218
    Can't reply directly

    fwiw, correction to my comment #48 above. (none / 0) (#220)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Aug 26, 2014 at 03:43:39 PM EST
    Dorian Johnson DID say he saw Wilson's gun while Wilson was in his SUV struggling with Brown. In fact, Johnson said he saw it go off.

    Monday Open Thread | 219 comments (219 topical)